This made me remember the other editorial killed child, Cerdian, there were clues for him to be alive, then the higher powers of DC sai "What is this! Hope in our universe! Not on my watch!" and boom blackest night brought us Zombie dolphin and Zombie cerdian
Even if Didio had make a good run as an editor, even if the only mistake had been this one, he would deserve The Spectre going after him for killing Lian
@calei2copio1 I had to stop myself from crying while making this video. Lian's death shouldn't have happened. D= And she should still exist, ajdsjdfk.
@starlight20angel I agree with you because it was a very pretty girl with all the Justice League with his father (Roy). what more hurt in my heart was when Roy was crying on her in the morgue, it gave me a lot of sadness, but the song and why red arrow is my favorite superhero.
@gaaraisallmineokay Her mom is Jade Ngyuen, whose alias is Cheshire. If you watch Young Justice, you've seen her there (and noticed the obvious UST between her and Roy if you watched episode 10). She also had a cameo appearance in season 5 of Teen Titans as a member of the Brotherhood of Evil (and had a scene where she fought Roy).
@ThePinkDragon They were thinking they needed to make Roy hit rock bottom. Because, you know, that's what the fans want to see . Pft.
I'm just going keep hoping that after the reboot, Cry for Justice never happened and that Lian will be a supporting character in the outlaws book. Yep.
Saddest song ever with the saddest comic book death ever. I was so shocked and sad when this happen, and even now I'm teary. Kill the innocent little girl, really DC? BRING HER BACK.
I highly doubt Lian will be brought back from the dead. I was just as shocked and upset as the other readers when DC decided to kill off the adorable Lian.
Killing heroes now and then, it's nothing that big. But killing a sweet girl like Lian is wrong. Nuff said.
@mightykamina2009 The only way I can see them bringing her back is if they reverse this whole CfJ thing in the just confirmed reboot. "It never happened" and all that.
@mightykamina2009 I have an idea for how they can bring her back: have her death be faked. Maybe someone knew how the events of Cry for Justice were going to play out and tried to take advantage of it to kill Lian and screw over the lives of Roy Harper and everyone else involved for..."teh lulz", I guess. However, someone else was against this and chose to hide Lian and use magic or whatever to make a duplicate of her body, fooling this person until Lian was safe enough to come out of hiding.
@Hiraxelc On the cover of 'Red Hood and the Outcasts', Roy has both arms attached and is back on a team with Kory- so even though he still is an 'anti-hero', it looks like CfJ WAS taken out of continuity. My concern now is that Lian was never born or something. xD Oh DC.....
She has no powers and a child so I highly doubt that she'll be back. I was so mad when they did this as a cheap shock moment! The Titans was one of the first DCs I read and she was a little ball of light where ever she went. and she had nothing to do with Gay for Justice,(go back and look at the text than take a step back, that's seriously what it looks like.) that entire series was messed up.
@Grisabella7 See, that's exactly the problem. Why would they bring back a little kid? Even Lian, who was one of the first DCU babies, the frontrunner for the next generation, and well liked by Titan and Arrow fans.
I agree with everything else you said. Killing her for shock value, taking away all the humanizing aspects of Roy's character and tearing apart the Arrow family (where the heck are Connor and Mia?) was not okay.
@naruto922shippuden In Cry For Justice, the villain Prometheus targeted all the known cities of the JLA- and he started with Star City which is where Roy and Lian were living at the time. The entire city collapsed on itself and there were were MANY casualties. Lian was one of them- Ollie found her buried under rubble. DC has said that they originally were to kill off Speedy (Mia Dearden) as well.
Prometheus also directly attacked and severed Roy's arm just before going after Star City.
@starlight20angel your very welcome exactly which is why till this day i utterly REFUSE to read anything thats about red arsenal or does crossover or makes a REFERENCE to it for its a comic that was made from a disgusting back story >:( dc needs to chill w/the low mortality rate or else they're be no new generation!!
That;s...kinda sick but compelling reading. I would expect nothing less from Gail Simone who would try to get the best story and character development out of this that she could. I think that was WHY I enjoyed Rise of so much. It was compelling reading. I do think if Titans were better or if Arsenal did kick his habit at the end of Rise of and we went with a more personal approach to his story, the death of Lian could be seen as a legit story telling method.
@arianasof Haha, that name's actually from a fan-comic that has her and the other kids of DC (Sin, Chris Kent, Damian Wayne, Milagro Reyes, Iris West. etc) a little older as a new Young Justice. They had her with the name 'Arsenic' because it's a combination of both her parents. Roy uses the codename Arsenal sometimes and Cheshire uses poison as a weapon (ie. Arsenic.) I thought it was a clever name that fit.
I feel bad for Mr. Robinson as it wasn't his decision to kill off Lian but DC told him he had to. Poor guy has been kinda the martyr in this whole thing. I understand why everyone hates this. Child death is bad bad bad. Even if it was done better and not just to seemingly shock it would still be pretty bad. Lian showed that you didn't have to have the tragic past to be a hero. Roy was a great Father.
That being said, I actually have to admit to liking Rise of Arsenal.
I liked it because despite all the bad stuff it was well written. People can bash it and me and say it wasn't. But in the end there was nothing wrong with the writing. It was just a subject matter most of us didn't want to see. I was shocked by a lot of it to the point where it almost seemed funny. Actually it was. But I think that was my mechanism of getting thru such graphic and tragic and shocking imagery.
Tho I will admit to disliking where they went with Roy after the fact, I do feel that Lian dying is a viable way to tell a story about Roy in a different direction. However they didn't have to go that way. One could argue that, for any comic event they don;t 'have' to do anything. The didn't 'have' to kill Superman in the 90's and, back then, many of us felt like it might have been for good, even tho they knew otherwise. My only feeling is, Lian is loved, It's a comic so death means little....
And, comics are just stories meant to entertain. If it doesn't entertain you, then just walk away. But even though there are many of us appalled by this story, it isn't over so, who knows? Roy could come out of this better. I'm sure I have more points I could put out there but at the end of the day Lian Harper's death was tragic. DC stepping in on Cry for Justice was a terrible move as it would have been a better book if they kept their noses out of it and let James tell his story.
@weisscrucifix I'm hopeful things will get better....but I doubt they will for another few years which, actually, isn't a long time in comic book years. =P I'm sure that he'll eventually come to his senses but in his case, I actually hope they find some way to revert him back to how he was AND bring Lian back. I know a lot of fans who would rather forget this whole thing ever happened.
@weisscrucifix Roy's used to bad things happening to him so I agree that if Lian hadn't died, the loss of his arm wouldn't have affected him as much. Without her, I can see him taking the path he did. I just don't think it should have happened to begin with. DC doesn't want to do any ressurections for a while. That, and just looking at past examples of children dying in comics, the chances of them ressurecting Lian is kind of low. In contrast to when they kill off Superman or other heroes.
Sigh, Rise of Arsenal is a big sad blur to me by now. I don't mind the darker themes but yeah, the fact that the people affected were Roy and Lian ruined the story for me. Tragedy is good sometimes but using Lian for just shock value and to take the Arrow characters down this road...I just don't think that it worked.
And comics is full of mistreatment of children and women...to the point that 'fridging' is a commonly used fan term.
@starlight20angel Boy these topics are so worth debating. I like the stories in that sense. Alot of fans aren't as 'understanding' of the comics industry as I see you seem to be. I mean, I feel that, even if the purpose of her death in CFJ was for shock, they did do it to have repercussions felt by the other characters for months to come but, now, well, Titans isn't very good in my humble opinion and they haven't mentioned her that much in anything else. Maybe they will and it will come back 2it
@weisscrucifix I try my best to understand why people (or big comic companies xD) do things. So, I get WHY they did what they did. They wanted to do something different with Roy. I just don't agree with what they did and it turned out to be a mistake.
Lian was actually recently mentioned in Birds of Prey- while being tortured in her mind, Dinah is faced with her regrets...including Ollie, Roy and Lian's death. Mortis actually tries to break Dinah down in a 'room' with Lian's casket in it.
@weisscrucifix First of all, wow, thanks for the long response. =)
I have nothing against James Robinson or JT Krul. Or Eric Wallace, for that matter. Roy was a great father and Lian made him more relatable. While child death is pretty bad no matter how they go at it, the fact that it was a reoccuring character who has been around since the 80's and was liked by fans of the Titans and the Arrow family makes it even worse.
I didn't like what happened in RoA but I'm a fan of Krul's writing.
Yeah, I agree. They pretty much were stupid with that move. I can't believe they want to screw with Roy even more. That guy goes through enough already.
@KarenBeecher So true. Poor Roy. =( The entire Arrow family took a beating after Cry for Justice (we haven't even seen Connor and Mia for some time now).....
@seanMmaguire1 DC said after Blackest Night that 'Dead Means Dead' a little while ago but I really doubt that will last. During an earlier issue of Brightest Day, one significant line was something: "did you really think that dead means dead?"
So yeah, DC claims that there won't be any resurrections but hey, it's comic books. Dead never means dead. Problem with Lian, is that she's not a hero or villain character but a supporting character.
@chibibirdiechan True, but they usually only bring back the heroes and the villains. Rarely do they bring back the supporting characters. Well, there's always a chance they might, who knows for sure?....I just wish they hadn't killed her off in the first place.
@qazhr There was a relatively big outcry for Lian's return. From what I've seen, few liked the new direction Roy took. I've seen many Lian fanart, fanfiction and appreciation threads popping up since CfJ. There's an entire group centered around bringing her back, and a petition.
Have you seen the covers of Red Hood and the Outlaws yet? Roy is shown with BOTH his arms. I kind of hope that this is proof that CfJ never happened and that Lian's still alive.
Mar'i and Lian for ever! Long live the Kingdom Titans!!!
bemersonbakebarmen 2 months ago
This made me remember the other editorial killed child, Cerdian, there were clues for him to be alive, then the higher powers of DC sai "What is this! Hope in our universe! Not on my watch!" and boom blackest night brought us Zombie dolphin and Zombie cerdian
bemersonbakebarmen 2 months ago
Even if Didio had make a good run as an editor, even if the only mistake had been this one, he would deserve The Spectre going after him for killing Lian
bemersonbakebarmen 2 months ago
Cry for Justice was worst than 100 reboots together, Robinson fans were so disapointed...
bemersonbakebarmen 2 months ago
oh. my. god. i. actually. cried. WTF? THIS MADE ME SAD! I NEVER GET SAD! AHHHH! *sob*
WitchStormQueen 3 months ago
@WitchStormQueen I'm so sorry! ;__;
THERE, SEE, DC? LIAN HARPER'S DEATH MADE SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T GET SAD CRY! LOOK AT YOUR CHOICES! XP
starlight20angel 3 months ago
2:58 makes my cry much snif snif :(
calei2copio1 3 months ago
@calei2copio1 I had to stop myself from crying while making this video. Lian's death shouldn't have happened. D= And she should still exist, ajdsjdfk.
starlight20angel 3 months ago
@starlight20angel I agree with you because it was a very pretty girl with all the Justice League with his father (Roy). what more hurt in my heart was when Roy was crying on her in the morgue, it gave me a lot of sadness, but the song and why red arrow is my favorite superhero.
calei2copio1 3 months ago
I typically hate this song, a lot. But this is beautiful; Liane doesn't get enough love.
Maybe in the reboot Lian will be made again, eventually..
ACluelessKid 6 months ago
Wow this was depressing!
BoooRatt 7 months ago
@BoooRatt Well, I did try to make it as sad as possible. xD
starlight20angel 7 months ago
Whos Lians mom?
gaaraisallmineokay 8 months ago
@gaaraisallmineokay Her mom is Jade Ngyuen, whose alias is Cheshire. If you watch Young Justice, you've seen her there (and noticed the obvious UST between her and Roy if you watched episode 10). She also had a cameo appearance in season 5 of Teen Titans as a member of the Brotherhood of Evil (and had a scene where she fought Roy).
starlight20angel 8 months ago
What was DC Thinkimg!
ThePinkDragon 8 months ago
@ThePinkDragon They were thinking they needed to make Roy hit rock bottom. Because, you know, that's what the fans want to see . Pft.
I'm just going keep hoping that after the reboot, Cry for Justice never happened and that Lian will be a supporting character in the outlaws book. Yep.
starlight20angel 8 months ago
Saddest song ever with the saddest comic book death ever. I was so shocked and sad when this happen, and even now I'm teary. Kill the innocent little girl, really DC? BRING HER BACK.
craziestanimefan 8 months ago
@craziestanimefan Definitely.
Maybe- maybe since Roy has both his arms in 'Red Hood and the Outlaws', that means that CfJ never happened and Lian's still alive? Maybe?
starlight20angel 8 months ago
I highly doubt Lian will be brought back from the dead. I was just as shocked and upset as the other readers when DC decided to kill off the adorable Lian.
Killing heroes now and then, it's nothing that big. But killing a sweet girl like Lian is wrong. Nuff said.
mightykamina2009 9 months ago
@mightykamina2009 The only way I can see them bringing her back is if they reverse this whole CfJ thing in the just confirmed reboot. "It never happened" and all that.
I agree 100% with you. =/
starlight20angel 9 months ago
@mightykamina2009 I have an idea for how they can bring her back: have her death be faked. Maybe someone knew how the events of Cry for Justice were going to play out and tried to take advantage of it to kill Lian and screw over the lives of Roy Harper and everyone else involved for..."teh lulz", I guess. However, someone else was against this and chose to hide Lian and use magic or whatever to make a duplicate of her body, fooling this person until Lian was safe enough to come out of hiding.
Hiraxelc 8 months ago
@Hiraxelc On the cover of 'Red Hood and the Outcasts', Roy has both arms attached and is back on a team with Kory- so even though he still is an 'anti-hero', it looks like CfJ WAS taken out of continuity. My concern now is that Lian was never born or something. xD Oh DC.....
starlight20angel 8 months ago
D: This is not cool....... this severely discourages me from even beginning to read the comic series again...
amanda2324 10 months ago
@amanda2324 It's very depressing, I agree. =(
TEEN Titans is actually really good again, IMO....but I do recommend that you ignore 'Titans' for the time being.
starlight20angel 10 months ago
She has no powers and a child so I highly doubt that she'll be back. I was so mad when they did this as a cheap shock moment! The Titans was one of the first DCs I read and she was a little ball of light where ever she went. and she had nothing to do with Gay for Justice,(go back and look at the text than take a step back, that's seriously what it looks like.) that entire series was messed up.
Grisabella7 11 months ago
@Grisabella7 See, that's exactly the problem. Why would they bring back a little kid? Even Lian, who was one of the first DCU babies, the frontrunner for the next generation, and well liked by Titan and Arrow fans.
I agree with everything else you said. Killing her for shock value, taking away all the humanizing aspects of Roy's character and tearing apart the Arrow family (where the heck are Connor and Mia?) was not okay.
Can we get a retcon here please? I'm serious.
starlight20angel 11 months ago
how did she die
naruto922shippuden 1 year ago
@naruto922shippuden In Cry For Justice, the villain Prometheus targeted all the known cities of the JLA- and he started with Star City which is where Roy and Lian were living at the time. The entire city collapsed on itself and there were were MANY casualties. Lian was one of them- Ollie found her buried under rubble. DC has said that they originally were to kill off Speedy (Mia Dearden) as well.
Prometheus also directly attacked and severed Roy's arm just before going after Star City.
starlight20angel 1 year ago
this is a lovely video and i miss lian so much!! she needs to be brought back she needs to be!!!
Tekirai 1 year ago
@Tekirai Thank you so much! And I agree completely! She shouldn't have died to begin with though.
starlight20angel 1 year ago
@starlight20angel your very welcome exactly which is why till this day i utterly REFUSE to read anything thats about red arsenal or does crossover or makes a REFERENCE to it for its a comic that was made from a disgusting back story >:( dc needs to chill w/the low mortality rate or else they're be no new generation!!
Tekirai 1 year ago
RIP Lian Harper.
TheOceanspray99 1 year ago
@TheOceanspray99 She will be missed. (Or hopefully ressurected, if DC has a heart. I can dream.)
starlight20angel 1 year ago
That;s...kinda sick but compelling reading. I would expect nothing less from Gail Simone who would try to get the best story and character development out of this that she could. I think that was WHY I enjoyed Rise of so much. It was compelling reading. I do think if Titans were better or if Arsenal did kick his habit at the end of Rise of and we went with a more personal approach to his story, the death of Lian could be seen as a legit story telling method.
weisscrucifix 1 year ago
arsinuc, that`s a toxic chemical, i don`t think they would have named her that
arianasof 1 year ago
@arianasof Haha, that name's actually from a fan-comic that has her and the other kids of DC (Sin, Chris Kent, Damian Wayne, Milagro Reyes, Iris West. etc) a little older as a new Young Justice. They had her with the name 'Arsenic' because it's a combination of both her parents. Roy uses the codename Arsenal sometimes and Cheshire uses poison as a weapon (ie. Arsenic.) I thought it was a clever name that fit.
starlight20angel 1 year ago
I feel bad for Mr. Robinson as it wasn't his decision to kill off Lian but DC told him he had to. Poor guy has been kinda the martyr in this whole thing. I understand why everyone hates this. Child death is bad bad bad. Even if it was done better and not just to seemingly shock it would still be pretty bad. Lian showed that you didn't have to have the tragic past to be a hero. Roy was a great Father.
That being said, I actually have to admit to liking Rise of Arsenal.
weisscrucifix 1 year ago
I liked it because despite all the bad stuff it was well written. People can bash it and me and say it wasn't. But in the end there was nothing wrong with the writing. It was just a subject matter most of us didn't want to see. I was shocked by a lot of it to the point where it almost seemed funny. Actually it was. But I think that was my mechanism of getting thru such graphic and tragic and shocking imagery.
weisscrucifix 1 year ago
Tho I will admit to disliking where they went with Roy after the fact, I do feel that Lian dying is a viable way to tell a story about Roy in a different direction. However they didn't have to go that way. One could argue that, for any comic event they don;t 'have' to do anything. The didn't 'have' to kill Superman in the 90's and, back then, many of us felt like it might have been for good, even tho they knew otherwise. My only feeling is, Lian is loved, It's a comic so death means little....
weisscrucifix 1 year ago
And, comics are just stories meant to entertain. If it doesn't entertain you, then just walk away. But even though there are many of us appalled by this story, it isn't over so, who knows? Roy could come out of this better. I'm sure I have more points I could put out there but at the end of the day Lian Harper's death was tragic. DC stepping in on Cry for Justice was a terrible move as it would have been a better book if they kept their noses out of it and let James tell his story.
weisscrucifix 1 year ago
@weisscrucifix I'm hopeful things will get better....but I doubt they will for another few years which, actually, isn't a long time in comic book years. =P I'm sure that he'll eventually come to his senses but in his case, I actually hope they find some way to revert him back to how he was AND bring Lian back. I know a lot of fans who would rather forget this whole thing ever happened.
Thanks again.
starlight20angel 1 year ago
@weisscrucifix Roy's used to bad things happening to him so I agree that if Lian hadn't died, the loss of his arm wouldn't have affected him as much. Without her, I can see him taking the path he did. I just don't think it should have happened to begin with. DC doesn't want to do any ressurections for a while. That, and just looking at past examples of children dying in comics, the chances of them ressurecting Lian is kind of low. In contrast to when they kill off Superman or other heroes.
starlight20angel 1 year ago
@weisscrucifix People still joke about the cat =P
Sigh, Rise of Arsenal is a big sad blur to me by now. I don't mind the darker themes but yeah, the fact that the people affected were Roy and Lian ruined the story for me. Tragedy is good sometimes but using Lian for just shock value and to take the Arrow characters down this road...I just don't think that it worked.
And comics is full of mistreatment of children and women...to the point that 'fridging' is a commonly used fan term.
starlight20angel 1 year ago
@starlight20angel Boy these topics are so worth debating. I like the stories in that sense. Alot of fans aren't as 'understanding' of the comics industry as I see you seem to be. I mean, I feel that, even if the purpose of her death in CFJ was for shock, they did do it to have repercussions felt by the other characters for months to come but, now, well, Titans isn't very good in my humble opinion and they haven't mentioned her that much in anything else. Maybe they will and it will come back 2it
weisscrucifix 1 year ago
Tho, part of me right now is kinda doubting it.
weisscrucifix 1 year ago
@weisscrucifix I try my best to understand why people (or big comic companies xD) do things. So, I get WHY they did what they did. They wanted to do something different with Roy. I just don't agree with what they did and it turned out to be a mistake.
Lian was actually recently mentioned in Birds of Prey- while being tortured in her mind, Dinah is faced with her regrets...including Ollie, Roy and Lian's death. Mortis actually tries to break Dinah down in a 'room' with Lian's casket in it.
starlight20angel 1 year ago
@weisscrucifix First of all, wow, thanks for the long response. =)
I have nothing against James Robinson or JT Krul. Or Eric Wallace, for that matter. Roy was a great father and Lian made him more relatable. While child death is pretty bad no matter how they go at it, the fact that it was a reoccuring character who has been around since the 80's and was liked by fans of the Titans and the Arrow family makes it even worse.
I didn't like what happened in RoA but I'm a fan of Krul's writing.
starlight20angel 1 year ago
Yeah, I agree. They pretty much were stupid with that move. I can't believe they want to screw with Roy even more. That guy goes through enough already.
KarenBeecher 1 year ago
@KarenBeecher So true. Poor Roy. =( The entire Arrow family took a beating after Cry for Justice (we haven't even seen Connor and Mia for some time now).....
starlight20angel 1 year ago
I hate you so much, DC.
SailorLibra 1 year ago
@SailorLibra I feel your pain. =(
starlight20angel 1 year ago
Comment removed
seanMmaguire1 1 year ago
@seanMmaguire1 DC said after Blackest Night that 'Dead Means Dead' a little while ago but I really doubt that will last. During an earlier issue of Brightest Day, one significant line was something: "did you really think that dead means dead?"
So yeah, DC claims that there won't be any resurrections but hey, it's comic books. Dead never means dead. Problem with Lian, is that she's not a hero or villain character but a supporting character.
starlight20angel 1 year ago
wow you are busy girl. I mean i'm not complaining but you're doing a lot in one week.
amazeblaze 1 year ago
@amazeblaze Haha, thanks xD I finished my exams last week and we had a few days off so I had some more time to spare lol so I made a bunch of videos.
starlight20angel 1 year ago
They might still bring her back from the dead. DC has a habit of doing that.
chibibirdiechan 1 year ago
@chibibirdiechan True, but they usually only bring back the heroes and the villains. Rarely do they bring back the supporting characters. Well, there's always a chance they might, who knows for sure?....I just wish they hadn't killed her off in the first place.
starlight20angel 1 year ago
@chibibirdiechan It she a superhero? No unless the fans want badly, she will be dead forever becuase it seems DC wants no one now to be relate-able.
qazhr 7 months ago
@qazhr There was a relatively big outcry for Lian's return. From what I've seen, few liked the new direction Roy took. I've seen many Lian fanart, fanfiction and appreciation threads popping up since CfJ. There's an entire group centered around bringing her back, and a petition.
Have you seen the covers of Red Hood and the Outlaws yet? Roy is shown with BOTH his arms. I kind of hope that this is proof that CfJ never happened and that Lian's still alive.
I'm an optimist sometimes. >_>
starlight20angel 7 months ago
@starlight20angel A mad with one arm is relate-able so they gave the arm back to continue the unrelate-ablilty.
qazhr 7 months ago