Crap. I hate this. Although, I hate GaGa and shitty j-rock bands for a reason too. Though I'm starting to think humanity is just naturally delusional.
In West Africa I once saw a performer who had a two string guitar and a dancing monkey. This is like the same performance in slow motion, with an uglier monkey.
The retard's movements are not remotely connected to the noise being made by the old person with the guitar. I'm going to stand my mate next to some roadworks and jab him in the arse with a needle at random intervals. I'll call my "interpretative dance", "The brutality of the urban".
What interesting new clothes the Emperor is wearing.
i loved bailey's playing the moment i heard it, instinctively, years before i started to play guitar seriously myself, went to the conservatory, became a professional musician etc. meaning two things. 1: you don't have to be a "specialist" to love this music; anybody can. 2: i know what i'm talking about when i say he's a virtuoso.
This is pretencious and anybody discussing it seriously is also. His innane fumblings are not artistic expression, they're more like autistic expression.
Sure. And getting hit by a car isn't a bad way to cross the street, it's just different. But marketing has brainwashed us into thinking there's only one good way to do it.
People that like using the word art seem to think that if they print out a label that says art on it, then stick it to a turd, the turd transforms into art. It doesn't.
The "art" logic would make it impossible for anyone to not be an artist. Anyone can claim, "I'm an artist but no one is open enough to get it."
naw art just doesn't exist at all . . . the point is to have fun . . . if someone has fun looking at a turd with the word art on it then so be it . . . I just don't like to even talk about shit so that isn't art to me
well written language was genius when it started . . . noise and free improv are traditions that have only been in the relative commercial market for 100 or maybe only 50 years so it's still exciting and still sometimes genius . . . but art is a meaningless word for one it's all relative and two the word it's self is derived from the word artificial which I mean it a wide variety of things . . . anyone can learn how to make "music" just like anyone can learn an instrument well enuff to improv
the point is to have fun and to express yourself . . . anyone can do many things but that doesn't make those things worthless or wrong . . . spelling your name, though no longer genius or special, was at one time and also serves a purpose, a very important person . . .
it's pretty hard to find an absolute argument to prove why an art-labelled turd couldn't be art, but apart from that, bailey's music cannot be compared to a mere turd etc., since his playing is the result of years of study and hard work, and is technically very advanced. quite old-fashioned art in that sense. you don't have to enjoy listening to his music to understand that.
Re: "bailey's music cannot be compared to a mere turd etc., since his playing is the result of years of study and hard work"
Sure it can, because crap is crap regardless of who plays it. If Bach or Beethoven played a Derek Bailey noise session on their pianos, it would still be crap. Their musical brilliance wouldn't change that.
If anything, it makes Bailey seem even worse. At least a kid picking up a guitar for the first time has an excuse for sounding like that.
'crap is crap'? and who's the judge of that, you? however strongly you feel about this, you'll have a very hard time convincing me of that, since i've been loving his playing since the first time i heard it, as i love other artists that many find hard to take. on the other hand, i also love joy division, billie holiday, some stuff by bruce springsteen and danzig, and the godfather part one and two. i'm less alone on those, aren't i? now how does that fit in your agressively narrow vision/system?
Re: "'crap is crap'? and who's the judge of that, you?"
Anyone that has at least one working ear should be able to tell.
Having a wide range of musical taste doesn't mean you have to throw in crap for variety. I like a lot of stuff, from classical to metal. Pretty much anything but rap, country & Derek Bailey.
If anyone else made the same noise as this idiot, no one would be calling it art. A guitar falling down a flight of stairs is more musical than this. I guess that's art, too.
i'll tell you what isn't musical to me: whole generations of young musicians who (through conservatory or youtube) know how to play like jimi hendrix or charlie parker, maybe even surpass them in a coldly technical way, but have never even thought of the mere existence of the possibility of having an individual approach to an instrument.
Why do we insist on making certain sounds, movements, and artistic expressions off limits? I regret that I won't live to see the day when someone says "Yoko Ono's concept art isn't really art" and the average passer by will laugh in his face . . . it may not be important but it is pleasing and has it's place all of this does . . .
Also, if you have such a problem with it proffesionally then just remember than art doesn't have to be proffessional to be good . . . think of Bailey as a man play for friends, he just has a lot of friends all around the world. I mean c'mon it isn't like he's being marketed out the ass and being called the greatest guitarist ever, but I don't think that was his point 'cause that shit is stupid . . . he wanted to make sounds that pleased him . . .
Why do people come to complain about no talent on these types of videos? Not only do most of the performers doing these sorts of works have blatant displays of talent earlier in their careers most times but futhermore it isn't about talent it's about entertainment . . . shit.
i like free improv and bailey generally. i am not sure about this though. the noise of the cicadas is too loud for the most part. the dancer seems to try to immitate a person suffering from huntington's chorea or locomotor ataxia...
I like Bailey a whole lot better on recordings than I do seeing him perform live on videos. I appreciate what he does on both it's just that on record he seems to lean more towards a musicality in improvisation whereas live he seems to just float with whatever makes him feel liberated like the really hard fast strumming and the stop and starts. For him that's great but many times it just gets to be too much for me to tolerate. This one is good though. Still I think Tanaka is the main attraction.
The look on Derek's face at 2:15 is priceless! As if he is thinking "Dude, what the hell are you doing?" Tanaka must have screwed up something along the way, but I have faith that they will come together as a team and gel.
This is wonderful, and yes definitely echoes Kota music (which Derek obviously knew). Makes the LP seem even more precious than before. I saw Tanaka dance to John Tilbury playing John Cage once, and this is as good as that.
Many British composers in the early sixties (such as David Bedford) were trying this sort of thing. It was justly marginalized because, whilst a handful of pseudo-intellectuals might enjoy pontificating about 'meaning', the plain truth is noone wants to listen to it. Last concert of avant garde guitar music I went to (featuring some improv sections) had an audience of 10.
Well it's an interesting question that, about marginalization. Many modernist composers' hard-core experiments tend to trickle down and influence many more musicians, then the public: Stravinsky-Zappa, Beefheart-Talking Heads, Stockhausen-Beatles. Derek himself seems in retrospect to have inspired legions of Japanese noise bands (Boredoms, Ruins, Otomo Yoshihide); many British & European free players were well-received in Japan, in fact. Derek toured there several times, from '78 to '85 or so.
yes, few people care about bailey, as was once the case with nick drake and vincent van gogh. I listen to bailey, and i know at least a dozen of other people in my city alone who do too. and i'm a singersongwriter, not some far-out art-snob. bailey's music may only be appreciated by few people, but they get a lot out of it. i think his playing is beautiful, in the old-fashioned way that is, like a landscape or a chopin-nocturne.
i don't mean his music has stylistic resemblances to chopin's, i just find it beautiful and interesting to listen to, like chopin or bob dylan. i like to point that out because many people (mostly people who dislike bailey) seem to think that you can only appreciate his music as some kind of far-fetched conceptual art work. i just love the sounds he makes.
Given that most, if not all, traditional Japanese music is based on the pentatonic scale, I would assert that this would indeed sound odd to the audience. I love dissonance as much as anyone but this is just mindless thrashing about from someone who obviously possesses no musical skills. And is it really improvisation? I've seen a few of Derek's comedy clips and they tend to be pluck, pluck, harmonic, pluck, pluck harmonic etc... What I'm trying to say is, he likes his harmonics apparently.
P.S. What Derek's playing here would not have sounded that odd to his Japanese audience; maybe just as a more spare & angular version of their own traditional Kota music.
Lemme put it this way. When I was 10, my favorite recording on the Beatles White Album was Revolution 9. When I was 15, I loved both Arnold Schoenberg's & John Cage's "strange-sounds" orchestral music. As do many people. There are people who were Born, I'm convinced, with a taste for dissonance, who are fascinated by certain kinds of unusual Sounds. (A minority, definitely.) And some of the sounds Derek (and only Derek) produced from an ordinary guitar are musical chocolate to me (not olives).
And your analogy with olives isn't right. Millions of people like olives. You would be hard pressed to find 100 people worldwide that think this isn't a joke. So it would be like saying some people eat concrete. That would be a more accurate analogy...
I think I am just trying to grasp what it is that you like about this? It can't be the 'tune', there is no harmony, no chords, it's out of tune. I have shown this to several people and they all fall about laughing. It is funny. I really want to know what I'm missing!!! Can you be specific?? It wouldn't be so bad if he was coming at this with some sort of technique, but it's obvious the guy can't play. And that 'dancing'....hilarious!
sure he has technique, tons of it, you just don't hear it. you don't have to like it, but don't say he hasn't got technique, because he is in control of what he does, and worked hard to be able to do what he does. more than half of the people i know don't like pure vodka, wasabi, movies from the twenties or watching two films in a row on a hot summer-afternoon, inside, windows and curtains closed. i do. am i a freak?
I'm not really buying that. Even some fans seem to admit he can't always play the same thing twice, but they try to call it improvising instead of random stupidity.
maybe listen carefully to his rendition of 'laura', here on youtube, which is part of a session where he improvised around several jazz-standards during an hour without stopping.
Please enlighten me. I am obviously missing something. Does this sound nice to you? Or do you think it's on some elite, intellectual dimension that only a certain few select geniuses can appreciate?
you guys have fun listening to this broken junk in your dark, dank little corner of the music world. and you can brag about all the tiny universes and bits of glistening beauty your sophisticated ears, and your ears only, are privy to. ill enjoy the music of men and vitality and communion.
actually, i was, but now that i get it, and think this is really truly beautiful (*specially love the tortured baby cry touch, its my fav part*) im not a troll anymore. naw ima sa-fisti-cated!
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
well, freejazzisbetter, you're either a mildly witty amateur or your fucking mouth has been completely divorced from your brain. fuck, even if your name wasn't...ehem, FREEJAZZISBETTER, i would simply site THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF MUSIC and use words like TALENT, MONEY, AWARDS, PRESTIGE repeatedly. do you have a diet of dog shit?...cause how could one say it wasn't as good (less delicious) than steak? and its cheaper!
thank you, i never knew i was a witty amateur. i don't think my mouth has been divorced from my brain, but i don't see what my mouth has to do with typing something on a keyboard. THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF MUSIC REALLY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. TALENT, MONEY, AWARDS, MONEY, PRESTIGE, MONEY, MONEY. you don't need any of them to play music, and having one or more of the above doesn't mean that the music you produce is better than someone has none of these things.
Don't worry, mi amigo. What Derek's doing here speaks for itself. People will be fascinated by it for centuries. Little by little, he's entering the history of music already. And he did alright for himself; living to see your own life made into a hefty book is a great thing.
this dude hates himself, hates music. you can see it in his face, this guy Hates himself. you think strong men of the past would tolerate this??? this is blasphemy. this isn't a john cage for guitar. this is nonsense. Listening to the sound of a tormented and damaged man who negates life. keep it to yourself, ya polluter!
U R writing "Sushi tastes nothing like pizza." Japanese Butoh music isn't jazz or avant (&btw Tanaka=top dancer). Like wine, Pollack, Shakspr, or Cage, some things require more experience to be properly appreciated. Tastes evolve as we learn. Musicians & storytellers must seek out that which forces us out of our comfort zones, & go beyond knee-jerk "like/don't like" reactions. I'm no dance aficianado, but I have added Butoh's approach to creating striking imagery to my bag of filmmaking tricks.
no mr.analogy, im not writing shit about pizza or sushi. Tanaka is a great fucking dancer, i said nothing about his dancing. if you notice , he accurately portrays this damaged retarded music by moving and looking all damaged and tormented and retarded. he did a GREAT job interpreting this shit.
look at that senile old man with a guitar!!!!??!?!? you can see it in his fucking face. he's not all their, and not in a good way. not a musician of any kind, don't care if coltrane, hendrix, and armstrong rose up from their graves and told me he was, id flip em the bird and tell em to fuck off.
wow, these guys get paid for this shit?????????? if there's anything good about this its because its an indicator of how fucking fragmented and messed up our sense of everything has become. this is NOT valuable music or sound or anything. his fretting is shit, his note choice is shit, his lack of timing and rhythm is appalling. im a late coltrane fan, ayler, love all of it, but id rather hear the new britany spears, or stare at a wall. id find more value in both
AMEN !!!! AND when we criticize these "avante garde" dislays of non-sense (and that's a generous descritpion of this shit) we often get called snobs, and alot worse ! Further proof that you can crap on a plate and sell it as "art".
His style is very fragmented and different, yes, but it is far from just "Playing random chords and open strings."
Listen to some of his earlier work, it had more order and is easier to listen to and understand, look for the CD "Works For Guitar", pure musical genius. I actually prefer his later and more experimental style, as seen in this video.
What is this horse shit? Mr Bailey is quite obviously a world renowned bluffer, and as for Mr Tanaka, he obviously is a little bit special. Is Hakashu a Japanese Retard commune?
challenging music indeed......but rewarding music on the outside..hey he made an album with pat metheney...saw him live a couple of times...with han bennik i think..blah
I do wonder why Bailey restricted himself to the guitar. It seems to actually inhibit what he wants to do. You can see him here, looking at the thing as if to say, "I wonder how else I can attack this thing?" Does Bailey always limit himself to 'right hand pluck/left hand fret' or does he break out of that?
Jandek does this--although perhaps not intentionally, well, semi-intentionally. Har.
If I had heard this without the video to accompany it I would not have guessed that it was a guitar playing! This is a really unique piece of music with very innovative guitar technique to go along with the dancing.
Derek Bailey was one of the masters of guitar. You could use any numbers of his albums as a benchmark for how embedded in guitar tradition were by how much they freaked out while listening to them! This is amazing, Min Tanaka adds so much to this!
Yeah, this 'music' is bullshit; just noise. Anyone who says they 'enjoy' this genre is lying, or lying to themselves.
People who listen to this stuff, or claim to, are either: A) snobs and/or B) lying snobs who in reality listen to music equivalent to the intelligence of the Sesame Street show opening theme.
This shit makes me want to poke my eyes out with a knife like Rodney Dangerfield in that movie where the little girl is "practicing scales" on her violin, lol!
I don't understand aggressive idiots claiming I must be an idiot or a snob to appreciate this music. It's really nice though, it's not "snobizing" me; I woldn't shock anyone with "liking" this music. It's just free-improv - better or worse. You should try Lutoslawski to ensure who is the real idiot... (the one who is aggressive anyway)
what's cool about this music is the interpretation. Bailey has his purpose and intentions at different times during this video. We can try to figure it out. We can also have our own. The dude had his own. It was interesting to see how he was interpreting every harmonic.
i agree with freejazzfree's comment...and if you don't like it and think it's a joke and easy to do w/ no worth...then it's not for you, apparently. i enjoy the minimalism that is sometimes found in Derek's work...this is worth much more to me than a lot of popular music crap that is crammed down our throats...
derek bailey was a trained studio musician/jazz musician who eventually decided to embrace free improvised music. maybe you should research more about him and his music before you make inarticulate stabs at his playing.
ok bud. this is real actual music. you dont have to like it. in fact i'd prefer if you dont. HATE IT! hate it with a passion. at least let it provoke the strong reaction that it seems to. dont bother to try and 'understand' it and let the whole world know how incredibly vapid you are.
then research it. attempt to understand the context of what you're seeing and hearing. and maybe after all of that you still wont like it. thats ok. but give it a shot. derek was into other 'real' music before he got to this point in his development. and with min tanaka same thing.. other sorts of performance. there is context for these approaches to music.. not to say it needs to be seen through the lens of those particular histories.. but it might help.
what do you think his parents thought.... hey dad i'm learning how to play come listen, and then he played this crazy shit. goooood job son uuuummmm keep playin
Actually, Bailey spent twenty years or so playing in standard dance bands before going free, so his chops were of a ninja level. Moreover, put your preconceptions aside and pretend that what Bailey is playing here is as commonplace as sweet child of mine. Now try to play it.
2 clowns
earthless1990 4 months ago
that dance shows how bad this "music" sounds. and yeah, I'm free improv hater, and it sucks
earthless1990 4 months ago
0:19
Thunderstruck
nashvilleraidersfan 7 months ago
As the old saying goes, don't piss up my back and tell me it's raining, see this for what it really is, a load of really horrible pretentious shit.
The King is in the altogether, the altogether, etc.
morganduffy154 9 months ago
Someone threw led zeplin's giutar down the stairway to heaven and recorded it.
alikakuikaika 10 months ago
Crap. I hate this. Although, I hate GaGa and shitty j-rock bands for a reason too. Though I'm starting to think humanity is just naturally delusional.
punkmusicmetal 1 year ago
zombie?
Kornushon 1 year ago
the more I watch butoh, the more I love it
Robusto103 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Teach me! I can do it.
YOU ARE NOT JAPANESE! YOU ARE NOT A TANAKA!
guitarslinger213 1 year ago
The most beautiful music to have ever graced the earth. Such musicianship and skillful composition!
tauwilltriumph 1 year ago
...the resonating moments of Min Tanaka are felt regardless of angles of view...like the sun it just soaks on in.
avisualfeel 1 year ago
Something about his restrained and brilliant playing... the harmonics.. mm..
mradamcooley 1 year ago
なんか、松岡正剛の遊塾とか間章の廃墟のような文章が思いだされます。
usagisama100 1 year ago
In West Africa I once saw a performer who had a two string guitar and a dancing monkey. This is like the same performance in slow motion, with an uglier monkey.
perunatic 2 years ago
Tasty.
Tonymostrom 2 years ago
I love how aggressively the haters react to this kind of music XD
I love it :D
Not sure about the whole 'interpretive dance' thing but whatever. R.I.P. Derek.
TomBandfield 2 years ago 12
LOL
captainsharkey 2 years ago
The retard's movements are not remotely connected to the noise being made by the old person with the guitar. I'm going to stand my mate next to some roadworks and jab him in the arse with a needle at random intervals. I'll call my "interpretative dance", "The brutality of the urban".
What interesting new clothes the Emperor is wearing.
perunatic 2 years ago 4
Please post such a video.
k0sha 2 years ago 6
perunatic:
I like this performance.
And I love the first sentence in your review.
ZoltanLazlo 2 years ago 3
Thanks Zoltan! You are a true modern, and a man of discerning taste.
perunatic 2 years ago
i like derek, but hahahaha @ first sentence.
kwakky 2 years ago
Ahh...."the old person." Well, you sure Slammed him there good, didn't you? Just remember someday you'll be an old fuck yourself.
Tonymostrom 2 years ago
i loved bailey's playing the moment i heard it, instinctively, years before i started to play guitar seriously myself, went to the conservatory, became a professional musician etc. meaning two things. 1: you don't have to be a "specialist" to love this music; anybody can. 2: i know what i'm talking about when i say he's a virtuoso.
bertdockx 2 years ago 3
beautiful
mcmikev 2 years ago
Japan.....yeah there's a market there! They are the kings of weird stuff.
stopglobalswarming 2 years ago 2
i like it. 5 stars
SummerRain666 2 years ago
This is pretencious and anybody discussing it seriously is also. His innane fumblings are not artistic expression, they're more like autistic expression.
joethresh 2 years ago 5
I think its its funny fascistic how some people in
a democracy think that there is only one good
way to play music, sort of like Nazi's thought
that there is only black and white.Art will never
be black and white precisely because its a Art.
Anything else is just marketing which most of the
time keeps 80% of society satisfied...
merkury777 2 years ago
Sure. And getting hit by a car isn't a bad way to cross the street, it's just different. But marketing has brainwashed us into thinking there's only one good way to do it.
People that like using the word art seem to think that if they print out a label that says art on it, then stick it to a turd, the turd transforms into art. It doesn't.
The "art" logic would make it impossible for anyone to not be an artist. Anyone can claim, "I'm an artist but no one is open enough to get it."
mjs70 2 years ago 2
naw art just doesn't exist at all . . . the point is to have fun . . . if someone has fun looking at a turd with the word art on it then so be it . . . I just don't like to even talk about shit so that isn't art to me
findingusernamesucks 2 years ago
really the term mainstream shouldn't be used at all to make points cuz it's so subjective
but why is it not art just because anyone can do it?
anyone can learn to play the guitar like a jazzer. Just takes practice.
findingusernamesucks 2 years ago
Re: "but why is it not art just because anyone can do it?"
Because that would make everything art, making the word more meaningless than it already is.
Maybe we should also call anyone that can spell their name a genius. Why is it not extremely brilliant just because anyone can do it?
mjs70 2 years ago
well written language was genius when it started . . . noise and free improv are traditions that have only been in the relative commercial market for 100 or maybe only 50 years so it's still exciting and still sometimes genius . . . but art is a meaningless word for one it's all relative and two the word it's self is derived from the word artificial which I mean it a wide variety of things . . . anyone can learn how to make "music" just like anyone can learn an instrument well enuff to improv
findingusernamesucks 2 years ago
the point is to have fun and to express yourself . . . anyone can do many things but that doesn't make those things worthless or wrong . . . spelling your name, though no longer genius or special, was at one time and also serves a purpose, a very important person . . .
findingusernamesucks 2 years ago
important purpose* not person my bad
findingusernamesucks 2 years ago
it's pretty hard to find an absolute argument to prove why an art-labelled turd couldn't be art, but apart from that, bailey's music cannot be compared to a mere turd etc., since his playing is the result of years of study and hard work, and is technically very advanced. quite old-fashioned art in that sense. you don't have to enjoy listening to his music to understand that.
bertdockx 2 years ago
Re: "bailey's music cannot be compared to a mere turd etc., since his playing is the result of years of study and hard work"
Sure it can, because crap is crap regardless of who plays it. If Bach or Beethoven played a Derek Bailey noise session on their pianos, it would still be crap. Their musical brilliance wouldn't change that.
If anything, it makes Bailey seem even worse. At least a kid picking up a guitar for the first time has an excuse for sounding like that.
mjs70 2 years ago
'crap is crap'? and who's the judge of that, you? however strongly you feel about this, you'll have a very hard time convincing me of that, since i've been loving his playing since the first time i heard it, as i love other artists that many find hard to take. on the other hand, i also love joy division, billie holiday, some stuff by bruce springsteen and danzig, and the godfather part one and two. i'm less alone on those, aren't i? now how does that fit in your agressively narrow vision/system?
bertdockx 2 years ago
Re: "'crap is crap'? and who's the judge of that, you?"
Anyone that has at least one working ear should be able to tell.
Having a wide range of musical taste doesn't mean you have to throw in crap for variety. I like a lot of stuff, from classical to metal. Pretty much anything but rap, country & Derek Bailey.
If anyone else made the same noise as this idiot, no one would be calling it art. A guitar falling down a flight of stairs is more musical than this. I guess that's art, too.
mjs70 2 years ago
i'll tell you what isn't musical to me: whole generations of young musicians who (through conservatory or youtube) know how to play like jimi hendrix or charlie parker, maybe even surpass them in a coldly technical way, but have never even thought of the mere existence of the possibility of having an individual approach to an instrument.
bertdockx 2 years ago 7
whats art?
mrlaa1 2 years ago
rain dance or saturday dance?
watchthematrix 2 years ago
Why do we insist on making certain sounds, movements, and artistic expressions off limits? I regret that I won't live to see the day when someone says "Yoko Ono's concept art isn't really art" and the average passer by will laugh in his face . . . it may not be important but it is pleasing and has it's place all of this does . . .
findingusernamesucks 2 years ago
Also, if you have such a problem with it proffesionally then just remember than art doesn't have to be proffessional to be good . . . think of Bailey as a man play for friends, he just has a lot of friends all around the world. I mean c'mon it isn't like he's being marketed out the ass and being called the greatest guitarist ever, but I don't think that was his point 'cause that shit is stupid . . . he wanted to make sounds that pleased him . . .
findingusernamesucks 2 years ago
I tottally aggree.
Robusto103 2 years ago
Comment removed
findingusernamesucks 2 years ago
Two talentless retards being talentless retards. How impressive.
mjs70 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Why do people come to complain about no talent on these types of videos? Not only do most of the performers doing these sorts of works have blatant displays of talent earlier in their careers most times but futhermore it isn't about talent it's about entertainment . . . shit.
findingusernamesucks 2 years ago
Oh, and a motherfucking asshole being a motherfucking asshole! That's impressive too, isn't it?
Robusto103 2 years ago
I don't see your post getting a standing ovation, so I'll guess that it's not.
mjs70 2 years ago
amen.
Robusto103 2 years ago
i like free improv and bailey generally. i am not sure about this though. the noise of the cicadas is too loud for the most part. the dancer seems to try to immitate a person suffering from huntington's chorea or locomotor ataxia...
theo9952 2 years ago 2
ou sou mto jegue q n consigo entender a beleza abstrata desse negocio ai...... ou o veio eh doido mesmo e nao toca coisa com coisa
trolovo 2 years ago
I like Bailey a whole lot better on recordings than I do seeing him perform live on videos. I appreciate what he does on both it's just that on record he seems to lean more towards a musicality in improvisation whereas live he seems to just float with whatever makes him feel liberated like the really hard fast strumming and the stop and starts. For him that's great but many times it just gets to be too much for me to tolerate. This one is good though. Still I think Tanaka is the main attraction.
findingusernamesucks 2 years ago 2
why do haters say avant garde music is exclusive? youre the ones excluding yourselves, fuck.
Zaknrfamaa 3 years ago 5
The look on Derek's face at 2:15 is priceless! As if he is thinking "Dude, what the hell are you doing?" Tanaka must have screwed up something along the way, but I have faith that they will come together as a team and gel.
jdeertick 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
what a load of bollox
ntemples1 3 years ago
This is wonderful, and yes definitely echoes Kota music (which Derek obviously knew). Makes the LP seem even more precious than before. I saw Tanaka dance to John Tilbury playing John Cage once, and this is as good as that.
EmmaYaBasta 3 years ago
WTF
whatsername109 3 years ago 2
The fact that this exists is a testament to the bizarre and illogical nature of human life.
Benjamin666face 3 years ago 3
The fact that this exists is a testament to human artistic inventiveness. Art and logic are very distant cousins.
Tonymostrom 3 years ago 5
the fact that such a clip can spark debate is a testament to its artistic value, imho.
powelldinho 3 years ago 3
Delicious, idnit ?
Tonymostrom 3 years ago
Great moments in wit.
Tonymostrom 3 years ago
What the hell is a Min Tanaka?
fas11030 3 years ago 3
Many British composers in the early sixties (such as David Bedford) were trying this sort of thing. It was justly marginalized because, whilst a handful of pseudo-intellectuals might enjoy pontificating about 'meaning', the plain truth is noone wants to listen to it. Last concert of avant garde guitar music I went to (featuring some improv sections) had an audience of 10.
FreeImprovMan 3 years ago 4
Well it's an interesting question that, about marginalization. Many modernist composers' hard-core experiments tend to trickle down and influence many more musicians, then the public: Stravinsky-Zappa, Beefheart-Talking Heads, Stockhausen-Beatles. Derek himself seems in retrospect to have inspired legions of Japanese noise bands (Boredoms, Ruins, Otomo Yoshihide); many British & European free players were well-received in Japan, in fact. Derek toured there several times, from '78 to '85 or so.
Tonymostrom 3 years ago 3
yes, few people care about bailey, as was once the case with nick drake and vincent van gogh. I listen to bailey, and i know at least a dozen of other people in my city alone who do too. and i'm a singersongwriter, not some far-out art-snob. bailey's music may only be appreciated by few people, but they get a lot out of it. i think his playing is beautiful, in the old-fashioned way that is, like a landscape or a chopin-nocturne.
bertdockx 2 years ago
how does this even remotely resemble a chopin nocturne
aodessey 2 years ago
i don't mean his music has stylistic resemblances to chopin's, i just find it beautiful and interesting to listen to, like chopin or bob dylan. i like to point that out because many people (mostly people who dislike bailey) seem to think that you can only appreciate his music as some kind of far-fetched conceptual art work. i just love the sounds he makes.
bertdockx 2 years ago 17
can't two things just be different, without one being "better" or "worse" than the other??????
Robusto103 2 years ago
yeah..... they're crazy fuckers!!!!!! that's why I love 'em.
Robusto103 2 years ago 2
Given that most, if not all, traditional Japanese music is based on the pentatonic scale, I would assert that this would indeed sound odd to the audience. I love dissonance as much as anyone but this is just mindless thrashing about from someone who obviously possesses no musical skills. And is it really improvisation? I've seen a few of Derek's comedy clips and they tend to be pluck, pluck, harmonic, pluck, pluck harmonic etc... What I'm trying to say is, he likes his harmonics apparently.
FreeImprovMan 3 years ago 3
P.S. What Derek's playing here would not have sounded that odd to his Japanese audience; maybe just as a more spare & angular version of their own traditional Kota music.
Tonymostrom 3 years ago 3
Lemme put it this way. When I was 10, my favorite recording on the Beatles White Album was Revolution 9. When I was 15, I loved both Arnold Schoenberg's & John Cage's "strange-sounds" orchestral music. As do many people. There are people who were Born, I'm convinced, with a taste for dissonance, who are fascinated by certain kinds of unusual Sounds. (A minority, definitely.) And some of the sounds Derek (and only Derek) produced from an ordinary guitar are musical chocolate to me (not olives).
Tonymostrom 3 years ago 4
And your analogy with olives isn't right. Millions of people like olives. You would be hard pressed to find 100 people worldwide that think this isn't a joke. So it would be like saying some people eat concrete. That would be a more accurate analogy...
FreeImprovMan 3 years ago 2
I think I am just trying to grasp what it is that you like about this? It can't be the 'tune', there is no harmony, no chords, it's out of tune. I have shown this to several people and they all fall about laughing. It is funny. I really want to know what I'm missing!!! Can you be specific?? It wouldn't be so bad if he was coming at this with some sort of technique, but it's obvious the guy can't play. And that 'dancing'....hilarious!
FreeImprovMan 3 years ago 2
sure he has technique, tons of it, you just don't hear it. you don't have to like it, but don't say he hasn't got technique, because he is in control of what he does, and worked hard to be able to do what he does. more than half of the people i know don't like pure vodka, wasabi, movies from the twenties or watching two films in a row on a hot summer-afternoon, inside, windows and curtains closed. i do. am i a freak?
bertdockx 2 years ago 2
Re: "because he is in control of what he does"
I'm not really buying that. Even some fans seem to admit he can't always play the same thing twice, but they try to call it improvising instead of random stupidity.
mjs70 2 years ago
maybe listen carefully to his rendition of 'laura', here on youtube, which is part of a session where he improvised around several jazz-standards during an hour without stopping.
bertdockx 2 years ago
Please enlighten me. I am obviously missing something. Does this sound nice to you? Or do you think it's on some elite, intellectual dimension that only a certain few select geniuses can appreciate?
FreeImprovMan 3 years ago 2
In a way it's like trying to 'tell' someone to like a certain food that you like, like olives.
But some people lean toward certain things; and a few pursue them. That's common, isn't it?
Tonymostrom 3 years ago
yes, very nice, on a very simple level.
bertdockx 2 years ago
This is absolute shit I'm afraid. I'd rather hear a fart in the bath.
AmazedDotTV 3 years ago
You;ll learn.
Tonymostrom 3 years ago
You'll learn.
Tonymostrom 3 years ago
This is what I call poetry... It's genius...
dadiggymax 3 years ago
This never gets boring, which says all you need to know about it.
Tonymostrom 3 years ago
what the f*** is he doing
DaBl0nd3 3 years ago
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arbitermatt 3 years ago
MIN TANAKA IS GENOUS!!!!!!
SARDISAL 3 years ago 6
Thank God for Derek Bailey.
Tonymostrom 3 years ago 9
Perfectly!!! In Moscow we have Tanakas school studio Do Tanza, later I put video)))
ratoutzero 4 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
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Lotion5150 4 years ago
i couldn't have put it better myself
gomachols 4 years ago
you guys have fun listening to this broken junk in your dark, dank little corner of the music world. and you can brag about all the tiny universes and bits of glistening beauty your sophisticated ears, and your ears only, are privy to. ill enjoy the music of men and vitality and communion.
gomachols 4 years ago
whats this? a troll?
otacon451 4 years ago
actually, i was, but now that i get it, and think this is really truly beautiful (*specially love the tortured baby cry touch, its my fav part*) im not a troll anymore. naw ima sa-fisti-cated!
gomachols 4 years ago
how can you say one sound is better (more beautiful) than another?
freejazzisbetter 4 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
well, freejazzisbetter, you're either a mildly witty amateur or your fucking mouth has been completely divorced from your brain. fuck, even if your name wasn't...ehem, FREEJAZZISBETTER, i would simply site THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF MUSIC and use words like TALENT, MONEY, AWARDS, PRESTIGE repeatedly. do you have a diet of dog shit?...cause how could one say it wasn't as good (less delicious) than steak? and its cheaper!
gomachols 4 years ago
thank you, i never knew i was a witty amateur. i don't think my mouth has been divorced from my brain, but i don't see what my mouth has to do with typing something on a keyboard. THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF MUSIC REALLY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. TALENT, MONEY, AWARDS, MONEY, PRESTIGE, MONEY, MONEY. you don't need any of them to play music, and having one or more of the above doesn't mean that the music you produce is better than someone has none of these things.
freejazzisbetter 3 years ago 5
Don't worry, mi amigo. What Derek's doing here speaks for itself. People will be fascinated by it for centuries. Little by little, he's entering the history of music already. And he did alright for himself; living to see your own life made into a hefty book is a great thing.
Tonymostrom 3 years ago 6
well, then you abolish the faculty of judgment.
koreindian1 2 years ago
i don't think so (if you are refering to me)
freejazzisbetter 2 years ago
you say that you cannot judge a sound to be more beautiful than another.
priyaprasad 2 years ago
which is a judgement....
and anyway, i didn't say that, i left a question.
AND who gave me a thumbs down for my 10 word answer above (+ why?)
freejazzisbetter 2 years ago
when you play as good as we do, there's no need for abolishment....
lonelywan 2 years ago
this dude hates himself, hates music. you can see it in his face, this guy Hates himself. you think strong men of the past would tolerate this??? this is blasphemy. this isn't a john cage for guitar. this is nonsense. Listening to the sound of a tormented and damaged man who negates life. keep it to yourself, ya polluter!
gomachols 4 years ago
U R writing "Sushi tastes nothing like pizza." Japanese Butoh music isn't jazz or avant (&btw Tanaka=top dancer). Like wine, Pollack, Shakspr, or Cage, some things require more experience to be properly appreciated. Tastes evolve as we learn. Musicians & storytellers must seek out that which forces us out of our comfort zones, & go beyond knee-jerk "like/don't like" reactions. I'm no dance aficianado, but I have added Butoh's approach to creating striking imagery to my bag of filmmaking tricks.
krischepps 4 years ago 3
no mr.analogy, im not writing shit about pizza or sushi. Tanaka is a great fucking dancer, i said nothing about his dancing. if you notice , he accurately portrays this damaged retarded music by moving and looking all damaged and tormented and retarded. he did a GREAT job interpreting this shit.
gomachols 4 years ago
and why don´t you keep your stupidity to yourself, little dudle? seems you found someone you can hate! that´s what rednecks need!
confess your sin!
froschmotor 4 years ago
look at that senile old man with a guitar!!!!??!?!? you can see it in his fucking face. he's not all their, and not in a good way. not a musician of any kind, don't care if coltrane, hendrix, and armstrong rose up from their graves and told me he was, id flip em the bird and tell em to fuck off.
gomachols 4 years ago
well stated
Lotion5150 4 years ago
Why are you not able to see the genius of Derek Bailey? You are so sat.
victorsnijtsheuvel 4 years ago
you're so cool.
gomachols 4 years ago
wow, these guys get paid for this shit?????????? if there's anything good about this its because its an indicator of how fucking fragmented and messed up our sense of everything has become. this is NOT valuable music or sound or anything. his fretting is shit, his note choice is shit, his lack of timing and rhythm is appalling. im a late coltrane fan, ayler, love all of it, but id rather hear the new britany spears, or stare at a wall. id find more value in both
gomachols 4 years ago
AMEN !!!! AND when we criticize these "avante garde" dislays of non-sense (and that's a generous descritpion of this shit) we often get called snobs, and alot worse ! Further proof that you can crap on a plate and sell it as "art".
hoookcattt 4 years ago
you get called what you are!
froschmotor 4 years ago
His style is very fragmented and different, yes, but it is far from just "Playing random chords and open strings."
Listen to some of his earlier work, it had more order and is easier to listen to and understand, look for the CD "Works For Guitar", pure musical genius. I actually prefer his later and more experimental style, as seen in this video.
TheComedyIsOver 4 years ago
What is this horse shit? Mr Bailey is quite obviously a world renowned bluffer, and as for Mr Tanaka, he obviously is a little bit special. Is Hakashu a Japanese Retard commune?
chrisbutler83 4 years ago
derek bailey forever.
blefusku 4 years ago
That's strangely amazing.
TheComedyIsOver 4 years ago
challenging music indeed......but rewarding music on the outside..hey he made an album with pat metheney...saw him live a couple of times...with han bennik i think..blah
BongoMadness 4 years ago
Derek standing up while playing? Unusual...
prasiddha 4 years ago
cool you r so cool
allytrin624 4 years ago
nice one
johannesauvinem 4 years ago
I do wonder why Bailey restricted himself to the guitar. It seems to actually inhibit what he wants to do. You can see him here, looking at the thing as if to say, "I wonder how else I can attack this thing?" Does Bailey always limit himself to 'right hand pluck/left hand fret' or does he break out of that?
Jandek does this--although perhaps not intentionally, well, semi-intentionally. Har.
Nice challenging stuff.
kc7fys 4 years ago
If I had heard this without the video to accompany it I would not have guessed that it was a guitar playing! This is a really unique piece of music with very innovative guitar technique to go along with the dancing.
Spiritu39 4 years ago 2
Derek Bailey was one of the masters of guitar. You could use any numbers of his albums as a benchmark for how embedded in guitar tradition were by how much they freaked out while listening to them! This is amazing, Min Tanaka adds so much to this!
BraveUlysses01 4 years ago
That s f....great!!!Thanks!
tedybear335 4 years ago
Yeah, "Dontbesuchamusicsnob" sounds like a fascist. I hope someday that some Josef Holbrooke Trio footage will turn up here, and Company Week! 5/5!
RattlerBK 4 years ago 2
This is weird... But I love it. Does anyone know where this was recorded?
TomBandfield 4 years ago
osaka 1993
tj3334 4 years ago
at The Mountain Stage in Yamanashi, Japan
herStay 4 years ago
You chumps have no idea, Bailey is love
jasonant1 4 years ago
Wrong BKRattler! These snobs who like this stuff masturbate to Martin Davidson.
DontBeAMusicSnob 4 years ago
free jazz is stupid
charmincp 4 years ago
to "dontbesuchamusicsnob" only a true music snob would have such a strong opinion about what other people should like.
alexrobes 4 years ago
sculpture in motion/ sublime
posttristerorobert 4 years ago
That is ''The New Music''.
Thanx....
ONur Yazgan.
onuryazgan 5 years ago
Yeah, this 'music' is bullshit; just noise. Anyone who says they 'enjoy' this genre is lying, or lying to themselves.
People who listen to this stuff, or claim to, are either: A) snobs and/or B) lying snobs who in reality listen to music equivalent to the intelligence of the Sesame Street show opening theme.
This shit makes me want to poke my eyes out with a knife like Rodney Dangerfield in that movie where the little girl is "practicing scales" on her violin, lol!
BKRattler 5 years ago
i love how youtube is a forum for idiocy like this.. bravo.
freejazzfree 5 years ago
damn! you're cool! you wrote the same thing on the other video.
thedragonzord 5 years ago
He's got MOMENTS, and they're worth waiting for.
I don't understand aggressive idiots claiming I must be an idiot or a snob to appreciate this music. It's really nice though, it's not "snobizing" me; I woldn't shock anyone with "liking" this music. It's just free-improv - better or worse. You should try Lutoslawski to ensure who is the real idiot... (the one who is aggressive anyway)
Greetings from Poland ;)
kamishes 5 years ago
you are an idiot
posttristerorobert 4 years ago
This is just terrible. I'd bet Martin Davidson masturbates to Picasso.
BKRattler 5 years ago
This is a unique guitar style; an acquired taste obviously, but you can't expect everyone to like it!
pigshavebeards 5 years ago
Beautiful.
PaulGSmyth 5 years ago
what's cool about this music is the interpretation. Bailey has his purpose and intentions at different times during this video. We can try to figure it out. We can also have our own. The dude had his own. It was interesting to see how he was interpreting every harmonic.
bedatulolaway 5 years ago
i agree with freejazzfree's comment...and if you don't like it and think it's a joke and easy to do w/ no worth...then it's not for you, apparently. i enjoy the minimalism that is sometimes found in Derek's work...this is worth much more to me than a lot of popular music crap that is crammed down our throats...
ADURG1 5 years ago
derek bailey was a trained studio musician/jazz musician who eventually decided to embrace free improvised music. maybe you should research more about him and his music before you make inarticulate stabs at his playing.
freejazzfree 5 years ago
he should do himself a favor and go back to playing real actual music then, so less informed people like me wont think he is such a shitty player.
rohw0016 3 years ago 3
ok bud. this is real actual music. you dont have to like it. in fact i'd prefer if you dont. HATE IT! hate it with a passion. at least let it provoke the strong reaction that it seems to. dont bother to try and 'understand' it and let the whole world know how incredibly vapid you are.
freejazzfree 3 years ago
??????
Robusto103 2 years ago
i dont hate it and please understand i am trying to understand it, but with little success.
rohw0016 3 years ago
then research it. attempt to understand the context of what you're seeing and hearing. and maybe after all of that you still wont like it. thats ok. but give it a shot. derek was into other 'real' music before he got to this point in his development. and with min tanaka same thing.. other sorts of performance. there is context for these approaches to music.. not to say it needs to be seen through the lens of those particular histories.. but it might help.
freejazzfree 3 years ago 3
He'd have a little trouble with that, he's dead.
FENDIN10 3 years ago
what do you think his parents thought.... hey dad i'm learning how to play come listen, and then he played this crazy shit. goooood job son uuuummmm keep playin
rohw0016 5 years ago
Actually, Bailey spent twenty years or so playing in standard dance bands before going free, so his chops were of a ninja level. Moreover, put your preconceptions aside and pretend that what Bailey is playing here is as commonplace as sweet child of mine. Now try to play it.
jim68000 5 years ago
dude i think this is fucking horrible. i mean... im sorrry but i dont really find it that, uhh.... inspiring or hard to do.
bemjamin 5 years ago
No,not really...mad genius is more like it,but he does still look bored out of his mind,which is the typical reaction to interpretive dance
michealdark 5 years ago
listening to Derek's playing i wouldn't always count him in to the group of sane persons... .
Mauday 5 years ago
Derek looks bored out of his mine watching interpretive dance,just like every other sane person on the planet. :P
michealdark 5 years ago
This image is included in baby's cry.
daiad 5 years ago
both are big names, but i'll take yo-yo ma/bando tamasaburo collaboration.
alfiesgal 5 years ago
WTF??? HAHAHAHA That Beginning Thing Was So Friggin Handicapped That I Basicly Shat Myself!
Guitarist1991 5 years ago
sounds like youre handicapped buddy
freejazzfree 5 years ago
your description of 'That Beginning Thing' says it all really, don't embarrass yourself when you don't understand something
Sweatybus 5 years ago
brilliant, he will be missed.
emilysong 5 years ago