@Smithpolly Unfortunately not, but I'm more than willing to repeat these workings with sceptical wittnesses, so to speak under controlled conditions. BTW, for the things I tell about in this video I found a not-so-simple, yet completely rational explanation that doesn't require any "supernatural" ingrediences. After all, I'm a sceptic myself, but I lack the preconceptions most self-proclaimed "sceptics" share...
@Smithpolly Sceptics avoid the topics adressed in this three part video. They seem not used to people that refuse to limit themselves to certain standards of believe about how the world works... ;0)
@Smithpolly That's the fun part with the self-contradiction: People that are sceptical against everything except the standards of believe about how the world works that they subscribed to are not sceptics. Someone once coined the phrase "domesticated primates", which is more appropriate for such people.
@Smithpolly If you have access to the internet you could use a website called "Google" (I know, strange name) to search for either Timothy Leary or Robert Anton Wilson. But I read the phrase "domesticated primates" for the first time in a book by H. R. Giger when Giger referred to Wilson and Leary.
@tmafkap The internet? Oh, no, I only consider that suitable for "domesticated primates" I, of course, am communicating this message to you using only the power of my mind. Of course, you need to use the internet because your mind is still not evolved enough to communicate without it.
@Smithpolly Sorry for the sarcasm in the earlier comment, but I deem it funny that a person describing himself as a "practicing occultist" (me) finds himself here explaining the scientific method to you, who made remarks about what "sceptics" would do. BTW.: asking for "proof" is not scientific, there is no proof in science. Since Karl Popper scientists look for falsification to refine their theories.
@tmafkap You're implying that you don't believe that I am communicating to you using only the power of my mind and not the tools of the domesticated ape. I assure you, Sir, that I am, indeed, doing so. It is so sad that you and so many others are not yet ready or open enough to accept this wondrous gift.
@Smithpolly In no way I did imply that. What I implied was that instead of asking "who said that?" you could have just used Google to search for that term. You would have found a wikiquote page where RAW uses it.
@tmafkap That's excellent. It is wonderful that you are open to believe. That is the first step. Now, all you need to do, is throw your computer away and in a little while ( it varies, from person to person ) you too will be able to communicate without the crude tools of the domesticated ape.
@Smithpolly In this case your argumentum ad absurdum only demonstrates your willful ignorance. I give the names of the rituals I used and you could even ask me for the specifics of my modifications, so that you could repeat the workings to see what happens, but you prefer to remain ignorant. That's the difference between a narrowminded believer (you) and someone willing to look what works. I have to repeat that no supernatural things were involved in what I describe in the video.
@Omnihilus Depends... if you sat through all three parts: yes, it's long. But if you talk only about this video: eight minutes are long for you? Boy, then your attention span is feeble.
"Reality" itself is a construct, which based on the social agreement to accept and "realize" things just the way our ancestors have described and lived with them. Most of the time, we are not active creators of realities, but passive receivers of realities. What you describes as "Magick" appears to me as a form of pure collective communication based upon an understanding of reality which other "Magicians" have created. It is indeed a rather interesting form of collective communication, since
you're not only "interacting" with psychological working "archetypes", but with a form of collective mind, which is able to share informations in a very efficient way. Indeed, quite interesting, but also logical, since communication is the key to the history of the evolution of mankind. But the use of Magic as a tool, if I got your right, doesn't necessarily mean that you have to be a theist. I can't really see the contradiction between atheism and being a magician.
@NormanZinn There is a contradiction between being a magician and believing anything, so a magician should not "be" an atheist, a theist (mono- or poly-) or anything else but a magician. A magician has to be able to think like atheists, monotheists, polytheists and everything else, but he shouldn't restrict himself to one kind of believe. Such a restriction is contraproductive to any form of communication, you see? ;0)
@tmafkap This is a change of perspective. According to this statement, a magician "should" be a non-believer (not really in a theistic sense, but more in the sense of "believing in someone") when it comes to spiritual power. On the other hand, he "should" see himself as the "observing" center of the universe, who is not a follower of a god or similar entity, but someone who watch, register and use those entities just in a way "Gods" acting.
@NormanZinn Yepp, that's what it boils down to. You see, my personal "voyage into magick" began when a wise man told me that "The believer deems himself created by god(s), but the magician understands that (and how) he creates god(s)." So I understand the atheistic POV, but I couldn't call myself an atheist, because I know that there are gods and where they come from. From a certain POV atheists are like parents that reject their children... :0D
@tmafkap In my opinion, theism is de facto blasphemy. But on the other hand, just from a psychological point of view, Gods are projections most of the time - very useful projections indeed. And as far as I understood your point, most of the magicians are working with traditional "gods",- so they are using spirits which are already defined. So those man-made gods seems to be a result of unconscious events, too... You've made a very interesting video here. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
just a thought on the rite you performed and the importance of ritual in magic to me it seems the important part is resinance its like when you said that all are world is controlled by the thoughts and ideas of the dead the rituals we perform resinate with are ancestors its like invocation but it might explain why he had good english for awhile because freemasonry is very anglo saxon and that culture resinated with him during the ritual or necromancy
I believe that only the truth can withstand criticism.
While I'm not trying to disprove the reality of any of the happenings you described, I see the trend that they were mostly restricted to personal feelings.
The panic in the woods, the feeling of awe under the initiation. I'm not saying it's insignifigant, but it's rather subjective and up to interpretation. Evidence should be something objective. Otherwise it's just a matter of credibility, not truth.
I believe, and have experienced myself, that the human mind will see and feel what it wants.
An atheist would connect two bible verses this way, a christian would interpretate them oppsitely.
You might feel an aura around a woods because you believe(d) in Pan, an atheist would just say it's cold.
I'm not trying to be defiant or anything, but unless I see something objective magick, like spirits, glowing lights, something undeniable, I'm still very sceptical.
Scepticism is a good thing. But it seems you missed the point in these two videos:
My GF didn't know about Pan, and she didn't know what I was doing, and still she had an experience according to my actions.
The guy in the hotel was suddenly able to do things he couldn't do before that, perceived the world in a completely new way.
Both cases are objective in the way that the practicioner (me) had others wittnessing the result. Objectivity is merely collective subjectivity, you know?
In other cases people were able to see the things that I explained to them. In those cases I made use of a formula Austin Spare learned from his teacher, the witch Mrs. Paterson. But extreme cases of the use of that formula are pretty dangerous: when somebody who is not prepared properly get's to see those things, a side-effect of that formula is that those people might go insane. Read a little about Spare, you'll find the story where two guys urged him to make a spirit visible for them.
What I'm really starting to like about magick, is that unlike a lot of religions that claim you have to be chosen to hear the voice of God, or witness something super-natural, in magick, you can learn these things yourself.
I find the statement ''It's a skill you can learn.'' Much more credible than ''You have to be chosen by God.'' In terms of verifying claims of supernatural incidents anyway.
Well, that's why the big religions don't allow magick: it takes the power out of their hands, gives people back the control of their own lifes and actions. But one part of that is relativism, in other words: saying good-bye to the believe in absolute truth. It's no wonder that Aleister Crowley received his Liber Al vel Legis in 1904, the same year that Einstein wrote his theory of relativity... and Salvador Dali was born. ;0)
''it takes the power out of their hands, gives people back the control of their own lifes and actions''
I'd say that statement depends on how you piece the world together.
No one person can fully comprehend the world, as no one fully understands all the factors. Christians understand christianity, muslims understand islam, atheists understand evolution, and so on.
Sadly, I have not taken the time to comprehend the theory of relativity, so I can't comment on the rest.
Liber AL says: "All words are sacred and all prophets true; save only that they understand a little" (AL I:56)
The theory of relativity says that there is no absolute frame of reference, but you can choose every point of the universe as point zero of a relative frame. Everything will appear different, depending on the point chosen to construct such a frame. Everything is relative to the POV.
The works of Dali can only be understood by taking the point of view Dali had... ;0]
Yes. Or rather it becomes much more difficult to get past the subjective view of the world. Physics indicates that there is something like an objective world, but it also shows how hard it is to get a grip on it, even when relying on instruments. An important part of that problem is that objectivity can only be expressed in subjective terms. It's a dilemma... :oD
I would say just the opposite, I am under the impression that there is an absolute truth, a functioning and science behind every phenomenon. The occult if it works at all, which I know it does. Implies some form of science to which our current insturments of mainstream science can hardly measure. Reality is not relative, it does not change based upon our individual beliefs nor religious prespectives. Everything occurs for a reason, why it occurs I suppose is what we are seeking the answer to.
Although I agree with what you say I disagree with this statement:
"Reality is not relative, it does not change based upon our individual beliefs nor religious prespectives." There is a difference between Truth and Reality. Religious perspectives show reality from only a few sides, they limit the possible ways of interacting with reality. By changing the religious system reality changes because it can be interpeted and interacted with in different ways than before.
Trägheit mag dem Zeitgeist widersprechen, doch schon Sten Nadolny schrieb gut von ihr... ;)
Yepp, in der FSeV ist's finster, auch im OS. Und über die Saturnische Diaspora die alten Meister zu finden, welche von GM Gregorius initiiert wurden, ist nicht leicht. Die saturnische Loge, welcher ich angehörte, ist von gleissendem Licht erfüllt. Wir stehen noch immer in freundschaftlicher Verbindung, was wohl für die Loge spricht, denn die FSeV behandelt Aussteiger wohl mit wenig Respekt.
That was a really cool story. It's like I could see everything taking place as you spoke. I would love to try something like that. I am especially interested in enochian magick. Whenever I hear the words of enochian scripture I get a tingling sensation on various parts of my body. I truly believe that the ancients were much more aware of the energies that surround us all the time than most people do today.
Yes, sometimes I have difficulties expressing things in german that can be expressed in english very easy...
Mmmh, transfer of thought-forms... maybe. The whole operation aimed at opening his Binah, his understanding. This ritual happened after the G.'.M.'. of our lodge performed the laying on of hands with me, and he stands in a line of succession that goes back to the Kathars. Maybe that explains a little...
The Hexagram? It's made out of six blades, those blades were used by "Burschen" (members of traditional german student fraternities) for academic fencing. This way of fencing aims at the opponents face, the cuts are a sign of honor. So every single one of those six blades is covered with the blood of a german. A nice symbol, the star of David covered with the blood of conservative germans... that's the meaning of this special star. In magic the hexagram refers to the seven classical planets.
i dont think i could really evan hope for an inishiation like that, from my position but could you give any advice for someone to start. i mean i have been studying magick for a few years but, in diferent areas.
could you tell me any other books it would be wise for me to read?
The sceptics will ask you to provide proof that your story is true. Do you have proof?
Smithpolly 2 weeks ago
@Smithpolly Unfortunately not, but I'm more than willing to repeat these workings with sceptical wittnesses, so to speak under controlled conditions. BTW, for the things I tell about in this video I found a not-so-simple, yet completely rational explanation that doesn't require any "supernatural" ingrediences. After all, I'm a sceptic myself, but I lack the preconceptions most self-proclaimed "sceptics" share...
tmafkap 2 weeks ago
@tmafkap As a sceptic yourself, you should have felt no need to wonder what sceptics would say about such a video. It should be quite obvious to you.
Smithpolly 2 weeks ago
@Smithpolly Sceptics avoid the topics adressed in this three part video. They seem not used to people that refuse to limit themselves to certain standards of believe about how the world works... ;0)
tmafkap 2 weeks ago
@tmafkap They're more than used to them which is why they are sceptics.
Smithpolly 2 weeks ago
@Smithpolly That's the fun part with the self-contradiction: People that are sceptical against everything except the standards of believe about how the world works that they subscribed to are not sceptics. Someone once coined the phrase "domesticated primates", which is more appropriate for such people.
tmafkap 1 week ago
@tmafkap Who said that?
Smithpolly 1 week ago
@Smithpolly If you have access to the internet you could use a website called "Google" (I know, strange name) to search for either Timothy Leary or Robert Anton Wilson. But I read the phrase "domesticated primates" for the first time in a book by H. R. Giger when Giger referred to Wilson and Leary.
tmafkap 1 week ago
@tmafkap The internet? Oh, no, I only consider that suitable for "domesticated primates" I, of course, am communicating this message to you using only the power of my mind. Of course, you need to use the internet because your mind is still not evolved enough to communicate without it.
Smithpolly 1 week ago
@Smithpolly Sorry for the sarcasm in the earlier comment, but I deem it funny that a person describing himself as a "practicing occultist" (me) finds himself here explaining the scientific method to you, who made remarks about what "sceptics" would do. BTW.: asking for "proof" is not scientific, there is no proof in science. Since Karl Popper scientists look for falsification to refine their theories.
tmafkap 1 week ago
@tmafkap You're implying that you don't believe that I am communicating to you using only the power of my mind and not the tools of the domesticated ape. I assure you, Sir, that I am, indeed, doing so. It is so sad that you and so many others are not yet ready or open enough to accept this wondrous gift.
Smithpolly 1 week ago
@Smithpolly In no way I did imply that. What I implied was that instead of asking "who said that?" you could have just used Google to search for that term. You would have found a wikiquote page where RAW uses it.
tmafkap 1 week ago
@tmafkap That's excellent. It is wonderful that you are open to believe. That is the first step. Now, all you need to do, is throw your computer away and in a little while ( it varies, from person to person ) you too will be able to communicate without the crude tools of the domesticated ape.
Smithpolly 1 week ago
@Smithpolly Allright asshole, stop trolling.
tmafkap 1 week ago
@tmafkap So, you mean, it would take more than me just telling you that I have an amazing skill in order for you to believe me? Good decision.
By the by, you call it trolling. I call it making a point.
Smithpolly 1 week ago
@Smithpolly In this case your argumentum ad absurdum only demonstrates your willful ignorance. I give the names of the rituals I used and you could even ask me for the specifics of my modifications, so that you could repeat the workings to see what happens, but you prefer to remain ignorant. That's the difference between a narrowminded believer (you) and someone willing to look what works. I have to repeat that no supernatural things were involved in what I describe in the video.
tmafkap 1 week ago
@tmafkap Repeat them yourself and win a Nobel prize. Good luck
Smithpolly 1 week ago
this is so....long....
Omnihilus 1 year ago
@Omnihilus Depends... if you sat through all three parts: yes, it's long. But if you talk only about this video: eight minutes are long for you? Boy, then your attention span is feeble.
tmafkap 1 year ago
"Reality" itself is a construct, which based on the social agreement to accept and "realize" things just the way our ancestors have described and lived with them. Most of the time, we are not active creators of realities, but passive receivers of realities. What you describes as "Magick" appears to me as a form of pure collective communication based upon an understanding of reality which other "Magicians" have created. It is indeed a rather interesting form of collective communication, since
NormanZinn 1 year ago
you're not only "interacting" with psychological working "archetypes", but with a form of collective mind, which is able to share informations in a very efficient way. Indeed, quite interesting, but also logical, since communication is the key to the history of the evolution of mankind. But the use of Magic as a tool, if I got your right, doesn't necessarily mean that you have to be a theist. I can't really see the contradiction between atheism and being a magician.
NormanZinn 1 year ago
@NormanZinn There is a contradiction between being a magician and believing anything, so a magician should not "be" an atheist, a theist (mono- or poly-) or anything else but a magician. A magician has to be able to think like atheists, monotheists, polytheists and everything else, but he shouldn't restrict himself to one kind of believe. Such a restriction is contraproductive to any form of communication, you see? ;0)
tmafkap 1 year ago
@tmafkap This is a change of perspective. According to this statement, a magician "should" be a non-believer (not really in a theistic sense, but more in the sense of "believing in someone") when it comes to spiritual power. On the other hand, he "should" see himself as the "observing" center of the universe, who is not a follower of a god or similar entity, but someone who watch, register and use those entities just in a way "Gods" acting.
NormanZinn 1 year ago
@NormanZinn Yepp, that's what it boils down to. You see, my personal "voyage into magick" began when a wise man told me that "The believer deems himself created by god(s), but the magician understands that (and how) he creates god(s)." So I understand the atheistic POV, but I couldn't call myself an atheist, because I know that there are gods and where they come from. From a certain POV atheists are like parents that reject their children... :0D
tmafkap 1 year ago
@tmafkap In my opinion, theism is de facto blasphemy. But on the other hand, just from a psychological point of view, Gods are projections most of the time - very useful projections indeed. And as far as I understood your point, most of the magicians are working with traditional "gods",- so they are using spirits which are already defined. So those man-made gods seems to be a result of unconscious events, too... You've made a very interesting video here. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
NormanZinn 1 year ago
@NormanZinn My Pleasure. Thank you for this nice conversation! :0)
tmafkap 1 year ago
ha this guy smoking pot bad ass foo
1Gerardo4 1 year ago
@1Gerardo4 Nopes, plain tabacco! :0)
tmafkap 1 year ago
just a thought on the rite you performed and the importance of ritual in magic to me it seems the important part is resinance its like when you said that all are world is controlled by the thoughts and ideas of the dead the rituals we perform resinate with are ancestors its like invocation but it might explain why he had good english for awhile because freemasonry is very anglo saxon and that culture resinated with him during the ritual or necromancy
hartejoseph 2 years ago
I have to say that this thought is most fascinating. This is an aspect that hasn't come to my attention yet, so thank you very much for the hint.
tmafkap 2 years ago
Yes, you are right with all your conclusions.
I thank you for watching and commenting! :)
tmafkap 2 years ago
I believe that only the truth can withstand criticism.
While I'm not trying to disprove the reality of any of the happenings you described, I see the trend that they were mostly restricted to personal feelings.
The panic in the woods, the feeling of awe under the initiation. I'm not saying it's insignifigant, but it's rather subjective and up to interpretation. Evidence should be something objective. Otherwise it's just a matter of credibility, not truth.
zim1017 2 years ago
I believe, and have experienced myself, that the human mind will see and feel what it wants.
An atheist would connect two bible verses this way, a christian would interpretate them oppsitely.
You might feel an aura around a woods because you believe(d) in Pan, an atheist would just say it's cold.
I'm not trying to be defiant or anything, but unless I see something objective magick, like spirits, glowing lights, something undeniable, I'm still very sceptical.
zim1017 2 years ago
Scepticism is a good thing. But it seems you missed the point in these two videos:
My GF didn't know about Pan, and she didn't know what I was doing, and still she had an experience according to my actions.
The guy in the hotel was suddenly able to do things he couldn't do before that, perceived the world in a completely new way.
Both cases are objective in the way that the practicioner (me) had others wittnessing the result. Objectivity is merely collective subjectivity, you know?
tmafkap 2 years ago
In other cases people were able to see the things that I explained to them. In those cases I made use of a formula Austin Spare learned from his teacher, the witch Mrs. Paterson. But extreme cases of the use of that formula are pretty dangerous: when somebody who is not prepared properly get's to see those things, a side-effect of that formula is that those people might go insane. Read a little about Spare, you'll find the story where two guys urged him to make a spirit visible for them.
tmafkap 2 years ago
''Objectivity is merely collective subjectivity''
I would agree to this, but still, the collective subjectivity of those two people alone are insufficient for my standards of objectivity.
''make a spirit visible for them. ''
That is the kind of action that is hands-down, undeniably super-natural, which is what I'm really interested in.
zim1017 2 years ago
What I'm really starting to like about magick, is that unlike a lot of religions that claim you have to be chosen to hear the voice of God, or witness something super-natural, in magick, you can learn these things yourself.
I find the statement ''It's a skill you can learn.'' Much more credible than ''You have to be chosen by God.'' In terms of verifying claims of supernatural incidents anyway.
zim1017 2 years ago
Well, that's why the big religions don't allow magick: it takes the power out of their hands, gives people back the control of their own lifes and actions. But one part of that is relativism, in other words: saying good-bye to the believe in absolute truth. It's no wonder that Aleister Crowley received his Liber Al vel Legis in 1904, the same year that Einstein wrote his theory of relativity... and Salvador Dali was born. ;0)
tmafkap 2 years ago
''it takes the power out of their hands, gives people back the control of their own lifes and actions''
I'd say that statement depends on how you piece the world together.
No one person can fully comprehend the world, as no one fully understands all the factors. Christians understand christianity, muslims understand islam, atheists understand evolution, and so on.
Sadly, I have not taken the time to comprehend the theory of relativity, so I can't comment on the rest.
zim1017 2 years ago
Liber AL says: "All words are sacred and all prophets true; save only that they understand a little" (AL I:56)
The theory of relativity says that there is no absolute frame of reference, but you can choose every point of the universe as point zero of a relative frame. Everything will appear different, depending on the point chosen to construct such a frame. Everything is relative to the POV.
The works of Dali can only be understood by taking the point of view Dali had... ;0]
tmafkap 2 years ago
According to that reality becomes quiet subjective then, doesn't it?
zim1017 2 years ago
Yes. Or rather it becomes much more difficult to get past the subjective view of the world. Physics indicates that there is something like an objective world, but it also shows how hard it is to get a grip on it, even when relying on instruments. An important part of that problem is that objectivity can only be expressed in subjective terms. It's a dilemma... :oD
tmafkap 2 years ago
There are a lot of philosophical dilemmas, take your pick.
zim1017 2 years ago
I would say just the opposite, I am under the impression that there is an absolute truth, a functioning and science behind every phenomenon. The occult if it works at all, which I know it does. Implies some form of science to which our current insturments of mainstream science can hardly measure. Reality is not relative, it does not change based upon our individual beliefs nor religious prespectives. Everything occurs for a reason, why it occurs I suppose is what we are seeking the answer to.
Vissago22 2 years ago
Although I agree with what you say I disagree with this statement:
"Reality is not relative, it does not change based upon our individual beliefs nor religious prespectives." There is a difference between Truth and Reality. Religious perspectives show reality from only a few sides, they limit the possible ways of interacting with reality. By changing the religious system reality changes because it can be interpeted and interacted with in different ways than before.
tmafkap 2 years ago
ein träges Wesen am Menschen ist Gift für die Künste..... mäcker!
und fraternitas saturni tz tz tz da scheint kein Licht mehr!
whatevermait 3 years ago
Trägheit mag dem Zeitgeist widersprechen, doch schon Sten Nadolny schrieb gut von ihr... ;)
Yepp, in der FSeV ist's finster, auch im OS. Und über die Saturnische Diaspora die alten Meister zu finden, welche von GM Gregorius initiiert wurden, ist nicht leicht. Die saturnische Loge, welcher ich angehörte, ist von gleissendem Licht erfüllt. Wir stehen noch immer in freundschaftlicher Verbindung, was wohl für die Loge spricht, denn die FSeV behandelt Aussteiger wohl mit wenig Respekt.
tmafkap 3 years ago
That was a really cool story. It's like I could see everything taking place as you spoke. I would love to try something like that. I am especially interested in enochian magick. Whenever I hear the words of enochian scripture I get a tingling sensation on various parts of my body. I truly believe that the ancients were much more aware of the energies that surround us all the time than most people do today.
theayar 3 years ago
Wow. It sounds like you transferred some of your own thought-forms to him which helped him understand english. I could use some Deutsch please! :)
Btw, do you catch yourself thinking in English sometimes?
Barklord 3 years ago
Yes, sometimes I have difficulties expressing things in german that can be expressed in english very easy...
Mmmh, transfer of thought-forms... maybe. The whole operation aimed at opening his Binah, his understanding. This ritual happened after the G.'.M.'. of our lodge performed the laying on of hands with me, and he stands in a line of succession that goes back to the Kathars. Maybe that explains a little...
tmafkap 3 years ago
what is the meaning of that star in the wall?
iDroli 3 years ago
The Hexagram? It's made out of six blades, those blades were used by "Burschen" (members of traditional german student fraternities) for academic fencing. This way of fencing aims at the opponents face, the cuts are a sign of honor. So every single one of those six blades is covered with the blood of a german. A nice symbol, the star of David covered with the blood of conservative germans... that's the meaning of this special star. In magic the hexagram refers to the seven classical planets.
tmafkap 3 years ago
make as biger list as you want
XnecromungerX 3 years ago
PM is on it's way!
tmafkap 3 years ago
i dont think i could really evan hope for an inishiation like that, from my position but could you give any advice for someone to start. i mean i have been studying magick for a few years but, in diferent areas.
could you tell me any other books it would be wise for me to read?
XnecromungerX 3 years ago