Oh one more question, about firing order: I know that the vee is on a 45, so on a 16-cylinder 2-stroke, does this mean that each cylinder fires at the same time another one does (two at a time) or do they have split crankpins, like on a 90-degree V6 for example...?
One thing to remember, the two banks on an EMD are NOT offset. Both bank connecting rods come down to the crank at the same spot, one rod is known as a blade, the other a fork.
@NewJerseyBill Yes, that's true...I actually read about that after posting my last post... :/
So I guess it could only be one of two scenarios, if it's a 45-degree vee: either the crank is like a straight-8 crank with a 22.5 degree twist in the middle, or there is no twist and you have 2 cylinders firing at the same time.
i believe the fuel is supplied at a lower pressure to effectively "fill" the injector and the governor adjusts the amount of fuel allowed to be injected and then the center lobe rocks the centre arm and forces the fuel out of the injector at high pressure which atomizes it and allows a good burn.
the 567s are so far out of date now, everywhere it is the 645s and they are getting old too. i have idled them for a week at a time and they go to full throttle in seconds, best medium speed engine in the world. when they are in marine units they are a lot better looking and better taken care of because you can get all the way around them.
wow thats sweet! I really want to work on stuff like this in a few years. Is that clicking a really quiet engine or just some valves that need to be re-adjusted?
GP-18 is a road-switcher with a short (high or low) hood and a long high hood. Hood and carbody are interchangable here in the US. If it was a full-width carbody like the F45 or FP45, they were usually referred to as cowl units. Big difference between the cowls and the streamliners (E and F units) is that the carbody was a key structural member of the frame in the Es and Fs. Not so with the F/FP 45s or the FP40H (amtrak). Hope that helps.
Four exhaust; it's the 4 arranged in a square around the cylinder. The injector is in the center, and it forces the fuel into the cylinder. Fresh air is introduced via scavenging ports that open up as the cylinder reaches the bottom of travel.
I am british and it pains me to say that the emd engine is the best locomotive engine ever made, the fact tha the heads and cylinders can be so easily changed is genius.
I was looking for a video of a cylinder head change but I cant find it in order to prove the ease of maintenance etc.
One thing now that I dont like is the electronics that wont last as long as a 567 (is that right? 567,645,710?), I mean will we see an electronic engine in 68 years time still running? no!
Yes, this is a 567 engine... and I heartily agree! I think people are thinking electronics is the end all of everything. The fact this beast is not only still running, but doing a good job of it speaks volumes.
u know in the 1950's britian was gonna use emd to replace steam, but politicians insisted on using british builders and untried engines etc, as a result many loco designs lasted only a few years before scrapping!
NBL/MAN were the worst, called boomerangs by fitters; they allways come back!
We have a few still going after nearly 50 years, english electric mainly.
Yes English Electric would be the only native European diesel loco that "sort of" makes the grade. Their biggest fault is their MU system which is incompatible with the AAR 85v control system that is/was implemented by EMD/Alco/GE. One thing I could say is that EE was never liked that much in Australia which their designs were far more Americanised than the loco's they sold in the UK/European markets.
I have hear discussion amoungst friends that if Nationalisation didn't happen in 48 LNER was going to go Alco/GE, Southern was going to go EMD and LMS was going to be a EE shop. While GWR was going to go the German route. Which the western route still got via the westerns and warships
There is a video of a cylinder head change out on a loco in Skopje, Macedonia that I came across by entering "emd locomotive repair" in search; should be the first video to come up.
EMD's were designed from the ground up to be very easy to work on, even a nit-wit like myself can fix them.
On the tugboat I work on I have two 12-645turbos, vintage 1980 due for overhauls in 09, maybe I can get some vids posted from that.
New engines need the electronics to meet emission standards bob
new someone/ rather my friens new em, with a tug with same engines, used a can of easy start on each cylinder sprayed through air reciever doors!! would use a whole box of aerosols!!!
That does not surprise me at having studied plans of both British and American steam locos you could come to a similar conclusion with steamers as well. US designs are very straight forward, a lot of off the shelf parts all nut and bolts are common sizes and use common thread types.
The 710 is a good engine the fact is that the US Class 1's rejected the 265H tells you something. For all the UK railfans that say EMD is rubbish. All I say to them is that they don't know what they are talking about as if you want to run a freight operation you only have 2 choices if you want diesels namely EMD and GE and it has been that way since the 1950's
Yes, EMD, designed and built them to 6000HP. So far, in North America locomotive use, they haven't been succesful. The UP units that featured it have been sold off and are being used by W&LE. Supposedly in China, they are installing them in 6000HP locomotives designed by EMD.
The 265H was EMD's forray into the 4 stroke. It was a big V16, 6000 HP unit and it didnt work out. GE also have problems with their own 6K hp unit in the AC6000where reliability is concerned. Alot of the class 1 railroads concluded that 6K hp was not worth the extra running costs V advantage and no more were built. All of EMD's SD90MACS using the 265H have been retired or derated to 4300hp.
Your spot on. You dont get much more reliable than a 2 stroke EMD whichever way you look at it. Their probably about the most reliable primemover ever built.
do u know that u can change piston, liner, and cylinder head without removing overhead cam?
all u do is open the top cover and unbolt and big end, the whole lot lifts out, then u replace with power packs- combination or liner, piston and head.
@tpvalley I knew it was fairly simple compared with our stuff but I didnt know you could do it without disturbing the timing gear, cams, etc. Theres a pic or two out in web land of these "power packs" I saw once, you crane it in, cylinder, piston, con rod, all in one. such a great idea, especialy when you consider all this stuff took off in the 40's or thereabouts.
@tpvalley I have mate yeah. Ive an H0 model of an FM "Trainmaster". They wernt a bad loco from what I gather but were not quite up there with EMD and went the same way as Alco. Not sure if any are left running but there are a few vids of their switchers on here that are still running either on shortlines or preserved, like the FM H16-44.
@formidable38 The FMs couldn't cut it out on the road, as SP found out with their Transmasters. But, they were GREAT on the commutes for years...cool ambient temps, fairly clean air and short runs. They lasted there for over 20 years.
The top end is pretty oily; it just did not show well in the video. There are dripper tubes the drop oil onto the valve gear. I don't know if the rail is pressurized with oil; you might know better!
Beieve it or not, oil for the top end is supplied thru the camshafts; yup theyre hollow, along with being segmented.
Oil flowing from the cams goes to the camshaft support bearings at each cyl.assy then thru a small single tube whch supplies oil to the rocker shaft,cam followers, hyd. lash adjusters and injector rocker arm button
In the video the oil supply line is the single tube in the top center at the end of the clip. bob
very clean ol engine inside if i must say so and sounds wonderfull!
rockinrollfan37 1 week ago
@calloway322 Do you have ANY clue as to the weight of any EMD engine? Didn't think so.
DeserTBoB93535 3 months ago
These engines aren't too different from a Detroit diesel.
douro20 3 months ago
@douro20 That's because the same guy designed both...."Boss" Kettering, in 1938.
DeserTBoB93535 3 months ago
Hiába ! A világ legjobb motorjai !
A Gm örök...)))
EMDfan1965 4 months ago
THIS is how a GE locomotive is SUPPOSED to sound. sounds a lot better than the GEs despite the fact they have identical sounds during idle.
GordonFreemanD40 6 months ago
It looks very dry. Has the oil flow been temporarily turned off during the inspection?
caffjohn 10 months ago
@caffjohn at 0:12 you can see oil dripping from the rocker arm shaft
robby844 7 months ago
@caffjohn No, that's normal.
DeserTBoB93535 3 months ago
Two stroke: Simple. Reliable. Boring.
jim40135 1 year ago
what model of engine are this?
borikirat 1 year ago
that sounds cool
Trrr Trrr Trrr Trrr Trrr Trrr Trrr
MegaZsolti 1 year ago
Ok, i see the two rockers on each end open the 4 exhaust valves. What is the center rocker for? Its not in sinc.
heatherandpaul2 1 year ago
It is for the injector, that injects the diesel fuel into the cylinder at the appropriate timing during the compression stroke.
GreatNorthwesternRwy 1 year ago
One word: AMERICAN.
We still run these engines (GP9's) every day at work. Very strong engines. They'll burn to the ground before they give up.
papabugs71 1 year ago
How is oil delivered to the lobes on the cam and cam arm thing?
produKtNZ 1 year ago
Oh one more question, about firing order: I know that the vee is on a 45, so on a 16-cylinder 2-stroke, does this mean that each cylinder fires at the same time another one does (two at a time) or do they have split crankpins, like on a 90-degree V6 for example...?
randommagnum 1 year ago
@randommagnum
One thing to remember, the two banks on an EMD are NOT offset. Both bank connecting rods come down to the crank at the same spot, one rod is known as a blade, the other a fork.
NewJerseyBill 11 months ago
@NewJerseyBill Yes, that's true...I actually read about that after posting my last post... :/
So I guess it could only be one of two scenarios, if it's a 45-degree vee: either the crank is like a straight-8 crank with a 22.5 degree twist in the middle, or there is no twist and you have 2 cylinders firing at the same time.
randommagnum 11 months ago
Does the middle rocker actually pump the fuel, or does it just open and close the valve for the injector (the actual pump being elsewhere)?
randommagnum 1 year ago
@randommagnum
i believe the fuel is supplied at a lower pressure to effectively "fill" the injector and the governor adjusts the amount of fuel allowed to be injected and then the center lobe rocks the centre arm and forces the fuel out of the injector at high pressure which atomizes it and allows a good burn.
E800FLYER 1 year ago
the 567s are so far out of date now, everywhere it is the 645s and they are getting old too. i have idled them for a week at a time and they go to full throttle in seconds, best medium speed engine in the world. when they are in marine units they are a lot better looking and better taken care of because you can get all the way around them.
jjmqwerty 1 year ago
wow thats sweet! I really want to work on stuff like this in a few years. Is that clicking a really quiet engine or just some valves that need to be re-adjusted?
Nec1228 1 year ago
A railroad's dream locomotive would be something close to a unit with an EMD uniflow engine and GE everything else. Not going to happen.
gaaraplushie121 2 years ago
WOW i love it!!! these are definitely the workhorse of america!
TrainCamera 2 years ago
One question... Isn't a GP-18 a hood unit (has two hoods, and no car-body)? And, that is really cool.
bigboy4016 2 years ago
GP-18 is a road-switcher with a short (high or low) hood and a long high hood. Hood and carbody are interchangable here in the US. If it was a full-width carbody like the F45 or FP45, they were usually referred to as cowl units. Big difference between the cowls and the streamliners (E and F units) is that the carbody was a key structural member of the frame in the Es and Fs. Not so with the F/FP 45s or the FP40H (amtrak). Hope that helps.
dodgeramb59 2 years ago
Really? I thought it was just a road-switcher, like a GP-7. And I'm in the U.S. lol
bigboy4016 2 years ago
lol. that makes it much easier to explain then. Yes its basically a cousin to the GP7/9s.
GP18 was the sucessor to the GP9 with 1800HP versus the 1500HP of the GP9.
GP9 sales though were hard to beat... 2k plus units if I remember right. GP18 only sold about 300 something.
dodgeramb59 2 years ago
That's about right, My home railroad (Conway Scenic) Has a GP-7, Ex-MEC #573
bigboy4016 2 years ago
@dodgeramb59 a little correction for you...the GP-7 had 1500hp.....the GP-9 had 1750hp. The GP18 was the 1800hp version
DRG1939 2 years ago
@DRG1939
Southen Pacific GP-9E's had 1450 HP after the Grip rebuilds
HUTCHtopher 1 year ago
Ok boys, break out the feeler guages-!
yambo59 2 years ago 13
Adjusting valve clearances on that would take forever :S
produKtNZ 2 years ago
how many valves per cyl do they have?
tuner562 2 years ago
Four exhaust; it's the 4 arranged in a square around the cylinder. The injector is in the center, and it forces the fuel into the cylinder. Fresh air is introduced via scavenging ports that open up as the cylinder reaches the bottom of travel.
GreatNorthwesternRwy 2 years ago
EMD engine + GE electrical systems perfect locomotive = Ing.BRIAN
Company: Ferrosur Roca
Number: #8105, #8121, #8118
Nickname: "Las Brian"
Country: Argentina
aleu650 2 years ago
kewl !!!!!! never seen something like that :D
solomenteleu 2 years ago
Brings back memories. Most of the EMD'S i worked on were driving generators. Thanks for sharing.
jmrau 2 years ago
i would say itz a ship diesel isn´t it?
derneuschooer 2 years ago
Nope, locomotive engine. 16 cylinders, 567 CI per cyl, 1750 hp naturally aspirated.
funkyjunk22 2 years ago
thanx! what a clean machine!
railbum 3 years ago
what is the heritage of this unit?
railbum 3 years ago
This is what I got on the history of GP18 #71
Previous Owner:Indiana & Ohio
Model:GP18Built As:SAL 404 (GP18)
Serial Number:26118Order No:5626
Frame Number:5626-5Built:8/1960
Other locos with this serial:
IORY 71(GP18) SCL 1060(GP18)
GreatNorthwesternRwy 3 years ago
coolt!
sealovers17 3 years ago
awesome!
FlyBikes089 3 years ago
I am british and it pains me to say that the emd engine is the best locomotive engine ever made, the fact tha the heads and cylinders can be so easily changed is genius.
I was looking for a video of a cylinder head change but I cant find it in order to prove the ease of maintenance etc.
One thing now that I dont like is the electronics that wont last as long as a 567 (is that right? 567,645,710?), I mean will we see an electronic engine in 68 years time still running? no!
tpvalley 3 years ago 6
Yes, this is a 567 engine... and I heartily agree! I think people are thinking electronics is the end all of everything. The fact this beast is not only still running, but doing a good job of it speaks volumes.
GreatNorthwesternRwy 3 years ago
u know in the 1950's britian was gonna use emd to replace steam, but politicians insisted on using british builders and untried engines etc, as a result many loco designs lasted only a few years before scrapping!
NBL/MAN were the worst, called boomerangs by fitters; they allways come back!
We have a few still going after nearly 50 years, english electric mainly.
tpvalley 3 years ago
Yes English Electric would be the only native European diesel loco that "sort of" makes the grade. Their biggest fault is their MU system which is incompatible with the AAR 85v control system that is/was implemented by EMD/Alco/GE. One thing I could say is that EE was never liked that much in Australia which their designs were far more Americanised than the loco's they sold in the UK/European markets.
gregrudd 2 years ago
I have hear discussion amoungst friends that if Nationalisation didn't happen in 48 LNER was going to go Alco/GE, Southern was going to go EMD and LMS was going to be a EE shop. While GWR was going to go the German route. Which the western route still got via the westerns and warships
gregrudd 2 years ago
There is a video of a cylinder head change out on a loco in Skopje, Macedonia that I came across by entering "emd locomotive repair" in search; should be the first video to come up.
EMD's were designed from the ground up to be very easy to work on, even a nit-wit like myself can fix them.
On the tugboat I work on I have two 12-645turbos, vintage 1980 due for overhauls in 09, maybe I can get some vids posted from that.
New engines need the electronics to meet emission standards bob
rad3766 3 years ago
new someone/ rather my friens new em, with a tug with same engines, used a can of easy start on each cylinder sprayed through air reciever doors!! would use a whole box of aerosols!!!
tpvalley 3 years ago
That does not surprise me at having studied plans of both British and American steam locos you could come to a similar conclusion with steamers as well. US designs are very straight forward, a lot of off the shelf parts all nut and bolts are common sizes and use common thread types.
gregrudd 2 years ago
we have those electronic 710 (I think) engines now, shame they r so well silenced as they sound nice.
tpvalley 2 years ago
The 710 is a good engine the fact is that the US Class 1's rejected the 265H tells you something. For all the UK railfans that say EMD is rubbish. All I say to them is that they don't know what they are talking about as if you want to run a freight operation you only have 2 choices if you want diesels namely EMD and GE and it has been that way since the 1950's
gregrudd 2 years ago
What is the 265H?
GE have a bad reputation for reliability compared to emd.
EMD can run for 30,000 hours between overhauls.
tpvalley 2 years ago
That was the case until the Dash8 but what caused the Class 1's to persevere with GE was the quality of the electrical systems at the time.
gregrudd 2 years ago
265H was a 4-stroke engine that EMD tried in a SD90 variant.
seth4404 2 years ago
did emd make it themselves?
was it successful?
what bhp etc?
tpvalley 2 years ago
Yes, EMD, designed and built them to 6000HP. So far, in North America locomotive use, they haven't been succesful. The UP units that featured it have been sold off and are being used by W&LE. Supposedly in China, they are installing them in 6000HP locomotives designed by EMD.
seth4404 2 years ago
The 265H was EMD's forray into the 4 stroke. It was a big V16, 6000 HP unit and it didnt work out. GE also have problems with their own 6K hp unit in the AC6000where reliability is concerned. Alot of the class 1 railroads concluded that 6K hp was not worth the extra running costs V advantage and no more were built. All of EMD's SD90MACS using the 265H have been retired or derated to 4300hp.
formidable38 2 years ago
Your spot on. You dont get much more reliable than a 2 stroke EMD whichever way you look at it. Their probably about the most reliable primemover ever built.
formidable38 2 years ago
@tpvalley I agree and im britisha aswel. You cant get a better loco primemover than EMD, period!
We'l be stuck with EFI though as it keeps emisions in check to keep the tree huggers happy.
It amazes me how many 567's there are still earning money throughout alot of the world. Gota be one of the best diesels ever built.
formidable38 11 months ago
@formidable38
do u know that u can change piston, liner, and cylinder head without removing overhead cam?
all u do is open the top cover and unbolt and big end, the whole lot lifts out, then u replace with power packs- combination or liner, piston and head.
tpvalley 11 months ago
@tpvalley I knew it was fairly simple compared with our stuff but I didnt know you could do it without disturbing the timing gear, cams, etc. Theres a pic or two out in web land of these "power packs" I saw once, you crane it in, cylinder, piston, con rod, all in one. such a great idea, especialy when you consider all this stuff took off in the 40's or thereabouts.
formidable38 11 months ago
@formidable38
yes, u can even take head off without having to touch exhaust manifold as it slides into a reseess;
ports in head and block that align!
Have u heard of the fairbanks and morse diesel?
works like a deltic but it has only one bank of cylinders and 2 cranks.
tpvalley 11 months ago
@tpvalley I have mate yeah. Ive an H0 model of an FM "Trainmaster". They wernt a bad loco from what I gather but were not quite up there with EMD and went the same way as Alco. Not sure if any are left running but there are a few vids of their switchers on here that are still running either on shortlines or preserved, like the FM H16-44.
formidable38 11 months ago
@formidable38
me to, got a h16-44 baby trainmaster and a h10-44 switcher.
the russians built a copy of the fm engine u know and alco.
tpvalley 11 months ago
@formidable38 The FMs couldn't cut it out on the road, as SP found out with their Transmasters. But, they were GREAT on the commutes for years...cool ambient temps, fairly clean air and short runs. They lasted there for over 20 years.
DeserTBoB93535 3 months ago
@DeserTBoB93535 Thanks for the info. I gather FM's yard switchers wernt so bad and were better than their road power.
formidable38 3 months ago
BFE-Big Fuck'in Engine
chris507npowell 3 years ago
The top end looked incredibly dry, wheres the oil to the valve gear?
(fwiw I work on EMD's)
rad3766 3 years ago 2
The top end is pretty oily; it just did not show well in the video. There are dripper tubes the drop oil onto the valve gear. I don't know if the rail is pressurized with oil; you might know better!
GreatNorthwesternRwy 3 years ago
Awesome!
GP9railfan 3 years ago
Beieve it or not, oil for the top end is supplied thru the camshafts; yup theyre hollow, along with being segmented.
Oil flowing from the cams goes to the camshaft support bearings at each cyl.assy then thru a small single tube whch supplies oil to the rocker shaft,cam followers, hyd. lash adjusters and injector rocker arm button
In the video the oil supply line is the single tube in the top center at the end of the clip. bob
rad3766 3 years ago
Thanks for the detailed description. I love the sound of those 567's. Zach.
GP9railfan 3 years ago