@MOKandRIFF, this is the last time I will address you. In 26 major civil rights votes after 1933, Republicans supported 96% of them. Democrats opposed 80%. The Dixiecrats did not become Republicans - they founded the Dixiecrats, then when the Civil Rights movement succeeded they went back to the Democrats.
@MOKandRIFF actually, my dad HAS stood up to my mother. They're divorced. Do you think that anti-black culture didn't have to be un-learned? Do you think that didn't take time? Was it fair that people didn't change overnight? No - but Dr. King wasn't willing to get angry and violent to get his point across, and he attracted a hell of a lot more attention than those who WERE angry and violent. I'm not being evasive at all, you just don't like my response.
@melthefretmaster it doesn't get un-learnd by continuing to support the very people who promote it, honey.
you seem to miss this point. you keep voting for, and supporting, the leaders who promote anti-gay prejudice, bigotry and bias.
You're evading. "take time?" It's taking time because you're giving excuses, not reasons. They have no reason to change their minds, because you vote for them even though they're anti-gay.
Now, what specifics do you want liberals to "change minds" about?
@melthefretmaster anti-black culture is still, however, alive and well. HELLO GOP!
LOL
but you don't get over prejudicial culture by continuing to vote for the people who support, condone and indeed PROMOTE that very prejudicial culture.
change comes when people realize that bigotry is not going to win them votes. have you noticed how the GOP candidates are all running on anti-gay platforms? that's because the GOP base thinks YOU are a second class citizen.
@MOKandRIFF name for me one candidate who is running on an anti-gay platform. Gingrich isn't. Santorm is anti-gay, but there's no way he'll win and he hasn't put anti-gay anything in his platform. Romney sure as hell isn't...his state was one of the first to legalize gay marriage, while he was the governor, no less. BTW...take a look at your history again. The GOP actually pushed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Democrats tried to filibuster.
@melthefretmaster Perry made it clear he wants gay people out of the military, and several of his ads say as much. I'm straight, but I did serve in the military, and Rick Perry needs to meet a few of the gay service members he bashes so much. Anyway, Perry is one candidate that has been running with an anti-gay agenda. Most of the other candidates have at some point made statements saying they would bring back DADT, and it is bigoted to want to exclude someone from serving based on being gay
@melthefretmaster And what do gay liberals have to do with the Civil Rights Act? Also, many of those democrats, aka dixiecrats, later became republican...hello Strom Thurmond. Believe me, I'm no fan of the Democrats or GOP, being Libertarian and all. Anyway, you're labeling a whole group of ppl based on what a few of them say...one could do the same thing w/ any group...ie saying Westboro Baptist Church shows that all conservative Christians are bigots.
why can't you simply just turn off and ignore the "mean things that liberals say" the same way that you're apparently able to turn off the outright prejudice, bigotry and anti-gay discrimination promoted by the GOP's leaders and the majority of the voting base?
@MOKandRIFF because the conservatives I know don't attack me and will actually sit down and talk - even change their minds about some things. Liberals don't - and we're talking about the same people who were thrilled when I came out and claim to be more tolerant than everyone else.
@melthefretmaster you're being evasive and that insults my intelligence. of course the conservatives you know don't "attack" you - you don't challenge their anti-gay prejucies, because you continue to support and vote for anti-gay candidates and the GOP, which has continued to be the biggest roadblock to LGBT Equality in America.
i ask again - how come you can't ignore the "mean liberals comments" the same way you choose to ignore the bigoted, prejudiced anti-gay comments of the GOP's leaders?
@melthefretmaster this is what stuns me - you dont' ask the leaders and the base of your chosen party to do the same.
i thought being anti-gay wasn't a problem for you. they're anti-gay, you don't mind. when then do you get so uppity at people who specifically call you out for tolerating their anti-gay bigotries?
you're so busy saying "liberals say mean things to me!" that you're ignoring the culture of anti-gay bias spread by the GOP.
@MOKandRIFF I have an issue with any person who can't be rational, regardless of which side of the aisle they are on. If a social conservative is willing to talk, I will talk to him. If a liberal wants to talk, I'll talk to him. I have no problem agreeing to disagree. Not everyone changes their mind immediately, and attacking them when they don't is the wrong way to go about getting what you want.
@melthefretmaster "agreeing to disagree" is what a plebe says when they're too proud to admit that they're empirically wrong. not all opinions are equal, not all opinions are valid, nor factually relevant.
I've been an LGBT Activist and Advocate for more than a decade. so far, it's worked. Clearly your way of doing things hasn't worked - you slink in the corner and say "oh , i don't think gay rights are a big deal" and your dad says "GOOD! cuz i hate you being a dyke."
i dont get it...you don't think Gay rights are important enough to vote, but you think "liberals calling you names" is important enough to bitch about? really?
honey, you tried and failed. you have effectively proven yourself wrong and everyone else right. you're one more white homosexual faux-Christian who sucks up to the right wing and hates liberals because it's the only way you parents will tolerate you.
Also, the comments you guys refer to appear to be in the minority...you guys pick out the worst comments and (as Ethan did in his follow-up video) present those as 'proof' of your hypothesis. That's called Confirmation Bias.
I actually respect the fact that you're a gay conservative.....I'm a Libertarian myself. It's the best of both worlds....socially liberal and fiscally conservative. Hopefully it's the future of US politics.
Regarding his video, many comments were actual counter arguments, not ad hominem attacks. I understand the argument you're trying to make, but getting called names online is nothing compared to some of the crap gay people have to put up with. What do you have to say about the gay people that are disowned by their parents? That's about the worst kind of hate, being isolated from one's own family. Just b/c you and Ethan haven't been through it doesn't mean it doesn't happen to others.
@obeyyourpug actually, I have been through it. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I've never been isolated. I was bullied all throughout my childhood. Trust me, when someone calls you a homophobe, self-loathing closet case, bigot, or a cunt (all of which occurred), it's bullying. So is threatening, which also happened.
define "bullying" - last time i checked it was your chosen party who were indeed the roadblocks to LGBT Equality. what, specifically, are Gay Liberals doing other than calling out the shameful way in which you ignore this? we're not denying you your rights or freedoms - your chosen party is.
now, as per your religious beliefs - do you believe non-Christians go to heaven?
@MOKandRIFF bullying is name-calling, personal attacks and threats, all of which I receive from gay liberals on a regular basis. Your tone so far has made it perfectly clear that you don't believe gay liberals are wrong for that sort of thing.
@melthefretmaster .....you're so busy focusing on "gay Liberals" that you seem to disregard the simple reality that the biggest roadblock toward LGBT Equality in America is the GOP.
you're so busy saying "liberals call me names!" that you've forgotten to do what gay conservatives pretend they should be doing - actually working to change hearts and minds within the GOP. Find me a GOP Candidate not running on an anti-gay platform. Can you? Not while you're bitching about liberals.
@melthefretmaster genuinely - rather than saying "gay liberals called me mean names!" why don't you list, instead, which viable GOP candidates run on platforms of LGBT Equality?
@MOKandRIFF this is where we come down to reality: I don't see gay rights as the most important thing in the world, and there isn't a conservative in America who will run on gay rights. There are MANY things that I see as being much more important than just gay rights.
@Yewon2001 he saw it. I saw it. There was no point in responding to it because your "facts" are so skewed that it would take forever to deconstruct your arguments, and right now I'm still trying to get my voice back.
@melthefretmaster You say you want to debate but when someone makes a video refuting the stuff that gay conservatives try to spew you called it 'facts' and skewed. I wish I could say I'm surprised but I'm not. Anyway good luck to you
@Yewon2001 saying that facts are skewed is honest, as opposed to just calling you a liar. Your facts are skewed - you were speaking as a person who didn't understand several of the subjects you talked about. I don't think you were lying because of the fact that you don't understand, much the way that social conservatives don't understand the way I look at things.
This was a very well done response. I also saw your comments on the Advocate story, and you're not lying. The only real difference between conservatives and liberals is that conservatives are straight up about their opinions, and liberals sneak and discriminate, then scream bigotry when people see their true colors. Ask minorities in the LGBT community. Ask Christians,many of whom would have their back if not for their mockery. Your conservatism is hardly the reason this mess continues.
actually we're being "dragged back" by those who continue to support anti-Equality candidates and movements. sorry, sugar.
its not about "disagreements" - it's the SPECIFICITY of those disagreements. your intellectual dishonesty is shameful. you lean right to save your own ass. it's cowardly.
Curious: what do you believe happens to non-Christians when they die?
@MOKandRIFF I specifically asked for civility - intelligent debate. Calling me dishonest and cowardly is not civil. As for my faith, it is my business - I don't preach. If you have something other than a thinly-veiled challenge then by all means, offer it.
@melthefretmaster ok, and what is your faith? oh, it's "your business"? are we not capable of transparency? I'm a united church member, myself. intelligent debate? i'd like to see you try.
you're being intellectually dishonest. not all opinions are equal, or valid, or worth respecting. the problem is not "different opinions" but the SPECIFICITY of those opinions.
again - what do you believe happens to non-Christians when they die? very clear question.
@MOKandRIFF if I thought you were asking an honest question I would be happy to respond. You aren't, though - you're issuing a challenge. I tend not to engage people like that.
And PS (500 characters is not really a great medium for having a constructive debate on any issue but I will do my best)... For the hatred and nastiness only coming from the liberals, have you spent any time on Free Republic and especially the "Homosexual Agenda" section where gay republican groups are regularly denounced as (to use the mildest expression) leftist infiltrators? The comment section of any gay-related article of the "family" site onenewsnow is not much kinder.
@amarkanable there are always going to be people who don't believe we're the real thing. You'll never get rid of them any more than you'll get rid of Stormfront. I have, however, managed to carry on actual conversations with some of those folks and they are often shocked to find that I'm the real deal. Several have changed their minds.
@melthefretmaster Re: civil conversations, I would love to see you try to create an account on FreeRepublic, comment on a story under "Homosexual Agenda" where you admit to being a gay conservative and see how many hearts you win over.More likely you'd be zotted in a flurry of names far nastier than any gay liberal has called you. They wisely have a no profanity policy but queer, pervert, dyke and faggot are still thrown around freely and I'm sure you would get all of those.
@amarkanable you mean the way I should go to Stormfront and do the same thing? One or two websites with a handful of idiots doesn't mean they're all out to get us. None of the conservatives I know - and there are a lot of people in my life - have much respect for FreeRepublic.
@melthefretmaster EXACTLY. Every group has a fringe of lunatics. You're pretty forgiving of your fellow conservatives/Christians and able to separate the mainstream from the lunatic fringe, you don't seem to have this same ability with gay liberals, or even fellow gays in general (like that SINGLE anonymous poster wishing SIDS on Mary Cheney's baby is not a typical gay or gay liberal).
@amarkanable Yet nobody in the gay community came out and condemned the remark. As I mentioned, it was originally posted on two different (now defunct) blogs. The remark got a lot of attention from conservatives at the time. When Ryan Sorba made his idiotic remarks at CPAC, he was booed off the stage before he could ever say what he was up there to say in the first place. That wouldn't happen at gay pride.
OK, I will grant you those 4 words are overused. I can also understand being gay but still pro-life, pro 2nd amendment, pro small govt, etc. What I don't get is that you and many of your co-partisans cherish a book that calls gays an abomination, describes the destruction of a city due to the presence of our ancient counterparts and in the New Testament states that God gave us over to shameful lusts and puts us in the same category as liars, fornicators, etc.
@amarkanable you don't know much about the Bible. First of all, the OT calls anyone who fails to abide by the ceremonial law an abomination. It also calls tattooing and eating shrimp an abomination. That all changed in the NT. Jesus' death on the cross wiped out the need for ceremonial law and gave one simple, direct route to God. The ceremonial law in Leviticus that you're quoting is no longer in effect for Christians.
@melthefretmaster I am familiar enough with the Bible to know all of the gay Christian counter-arguments you have presented. One need only look at huge rifts in both in both Catholics and Protestant churches because of this debate (and which side of the rift the majority of people are on) to see how few Christians buy these arguments. Thanks though for being a strong voice from a side of the gay community that needs to be heard from.
@amarkanable as for the destruction of Sodom & Gomorrah, gay people were not the reason God destroyed them. The book of Ezekiel says that God destroyed them because they wanted for nothing yet they never helped the needy. Culture is important, too - gang rape was common then when humiliating an outsider or an enemy, and the act would be committed by heterosexual men. Jesus condemned them for inhospitality - not for being homosexuals.
@melthefretmaster the irony is that your chosen party chooses to use the story of Sodom to falsely discriminate against LGBT people when the story itself (Ezekiel 16) makes it rather clear that Sin of Sodom was GREED - those who have who don't share with those who have not. therefore the sodomite sinners of america are the wealthy who refuse to distribute said wealth and help those in need. oh, the irony.
@amarkanable finally, we get to Paul entering Rome. Culture is important here, too. Debauchery was popular in Rome and the first thing he would have seen were the pagan temples where orgies were used as idol worship. THAT was what he was referring to. You also have to take different interpretations of the original Greek into account, which English versions have screwed up many times.
@amarkanable what you're quoting of the Bible is the human interpretation of it, and it is widely imperfect. I had to question all of that myself at one point. I don't have to believe the way all other Christians do, and frankly, I differ very sharply from mainstream evangelicals. My friends in that culture don't agree with me but they don't judge the condition of my soul for it, either.
@penlovmov, if you want to be that defeatist, it's your choice - I would rather try to make peace than assail them with every social injustice slur I know. I don't need a bunch of intolerant narcissists to approve of me to have high self-esteem, and I'm not willing to write anyone off.
You can be conservative, until the cows come home, they're still not going to give you your rights. As a straight Ally, I see this everyday. You associate with the right, and that says to me, you have no self respect. You think, you have problems now, if the GOP wins in Nov, they will eradicate all your rights. Do not be fooled by them.
Thank you! I totally agree on the "hate" issue. If we blame every little bad thing on "hate", it waters down the things that are infact done out of hatred and bigotry.
Great video! I feel exactly that way. If you can't be respectful, you won't get respect. If you can't stop insulting others for having different opinions, you can't expect others to do you the same courtesy.
Leftists are the most shameless liars, much of it comes from post-Marx communist political thought - label what you do with a pleasant word, regardless of how inaccurate it is. Are you running a totalitarian power which has been securely in place for half a century? Call yourself revolutionary. Do you call for the murder of people who say things you don't like? Call this "tolerance."
To gays who think the left is your friend, take a good hard look at the attitudes of non-whites in the US
@MOKandRIFF, this is the last time I will address you. In 26 major civil rights votes after 1933, Republicans supported 96% of them. Democrats opposed 80%. The Dixiecrats did not become Republicans - they founded the Dixiecrats, then when the Civil Rights movement succeeded they went back to the Democrats.
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
@MOKandRIFF actually, my dad HAS stood up to my mother. They're divorced. Do you think that anti-black culture didn't have to be un-learned? Do you think that didn't take time? Was it fair that people didn't change overnight? No - but Dr. King wasn't willing to get angry and violent to get his point across, and he attracted a hell of a lot more attention than those who WERE angry and violent. I'm not being evasive at all, you just don't like my response.
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
@melthefretmaster it doesn't get un-learnd by continuing to support the very people who promote it, honey.
you seem to miss this point. you keep voting for, and supporting, the leaders who promote anti-gay prejudice, bigotry and bias.
You're evading. "take time?" It's taking time because you're giving excuses, not reasons. They have no reason to change their minds, because you vote for them even though they're anti-gay.
Now, what specifics do you want liberals to "change minds" about?
MOKandRIFF 1 month ago
@MOKandRIFF check your messages. I've already explained this. You need to prove that conservatives promote "anti-gay prejudice".
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
@melthefretmaster anti-black culture is still, however, alive and well. HELLO GOP!
LOL
but you don't get over prejudicial culture by continuing to vote for the people who support, condone and indeed PROMOTE that very prejudicial culture.
change comes when people realize that bigotry is not going to win them votes. have you noticed how the GOP candidates are all running on anti-gay platforms? that's because the GOP base thinks YOU are a second class citizen.
thank GOD for my liberal family :D
MOKandRIFF 1 month ago
@MOKandRIFF name for me one candidate who is running on an anti-gay platform. Gingrich isn't. Santorm is anti-gay, but there's no way he'll win and he hasn't put anti-gay anything in his platform. Romney sure as hell isn't...his state was one of the first to legalize gay marriage, while he was the governor, no less. BTW...take a look at your history again. The GOP actually pushed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Democrats tried to filibuster.
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
@melthefretmaster Perry made it clear he wants gay people out of the military, and several of his ads say as much. I'm straight, but I did serve in the military, and Rick Perry needs to meet a few of the gay service members he bashes so much. Anyway, Perry is one candidate that has been running with an anti-gay agenda. Most of the other candidates have at some point made statements saying they would bring back DADT, and it is bigoted to want to exclude someone from serving based on being gay
obeyyourpug 1 month ago
@melthefretmaster And what do gay liberals have to do with the Civil Rights Act? Also, many of those democrats, aka dixiecrats, later became republican...hello Strom Thurmond. Believe me, I'm no fan of the Democrats or GOP, being Libertarian and all. Anyway, you're labeling a whole group of ppl based on what a few of them say...one could do the same thing w/ any group...ie saying Westboro Baptist Church shows that all conservative Christians are bigots.
obeyyourpug 1 month ago
why can't you simply just turn off and ignore the "mean things that liberals say" the same way that you're apparently able to turn off the outright prejudice, bigotry and anti-gay discrimination promoted by the GOP's leaders and the majority of the voting base?
I'm serious.
MOKandRIFF 1 month ago
@MOKandRIFF because the conservatives I know don't attack me and will actually sit down and talk - even change their minds about some things. Liberals don't - and we're talking about the same people who were thrilled when I came out and claim to be more tolerant than everyone else.
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
@melthefretmaster you're being evasive and that insults my intelligence. of course the conservatives you know don't "attack" you - you don't challenge their anti-gay prejucies, because you continue to support and vote for anti-gay candidates and the GOP, which has continued to be the biggest roadblock to LGBT Equality in America.
i ask again - how come you can't ignore the "mean liberals comments" the same way you choose to ignore the bigoted, prejudiced anti-gay comments of the GOP's leaders?
MOKandRIFF 1 month ago
@melthefretmaster and what do you specifically want "Liberals" to "change their minds about"?
SPECIFICS, please. Do you want more liberals to stop caring about social equality and fighting a culture of anti-gay prejudice in our modern culture?
what specific things do you want liberals to "change their minds" about? specifics, please.
MOKandRIFF 1 month ago
@MOKandRIFF I will ask you one last time to stop with the attacks and be civil.
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
@melthefretmaster this is what stuns me - you dont' ask the leaders and the base of your chosen party to do the same.
i thought being anti-gay wasn't a problem for you. they're anti-gay, you don't mind. when then do you get so uppity at people who specifically call you out for tolerating their anti-gay bigotries?
you're so busy saying "liberals say mean things to me!" that you're ignoring the culture of anti-gay bias spread by the GOP.
MOKandRIFF 1 month ago
@MOKandRIFF I have an issue with any person who can't be rational, regardless of which side of the aisle they are on. If a social conservative is willing to talk, I will talk to him. If a liberal wants to talk, I'll talk to him. I have no problem agreeing to disagree. Not everyone changes their mind immediately, and attacking them when they don't is the wrong way to go about getting what you want.
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
@melthefretmaster "agreeing to disagree" is what a plebe says when they're too proud to admit that they're empirically wrong. not all opinions are equal, not all opinions are valid, nor factually relevant.
I've been an LGBT Activist and Advocate for more than a decade. so far, it's worked. Clearly your way of doing things hasn't worked - you slink in the corner and say "oh , i don't think gay rights are a big deal" and your dad says "GOOD! cuz i hate you being a dyke."
and you suck it up.
MOKandRIFF 1 month ago
@MOKandRIFF okay...I'm done with you. I won't block you, but I will remove everything you post from here on.
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
i dont get it...you don't think Gay rights are important enough to vote, but you think "liberals calling you names" is important enough to bitch about? really?
honey, you tried and failed. you have effectively proven yourself wrong and everyone else right. you're one more white homosexual faux-Christian who sucks up to the right wing and hates liberals because it's the only way you parents will tolerate you.
pathetic.
MOKandRIFF 1 month ago
Also, the comments you guys refer to appear to be in the minority...you guys pick out the worst comments and (as Ethan did in his follow-up video) present those as 'proof' of your hypothesis. That's called Confirmation Bias.
I actually respect the fact that you're a gay conservative.....I'm a Libertarian myself. It's the best of both worlds....socially liberal and fiscally conservative. Hopefully it's the future of US politics.
obeyyourpug 1 month ago
Regarding his video, many comments were actual counter arguments, not ad hominem attacks. I understand the argument you're trying to make, but getting called names online is nothing compared to some of the crap gay people have to put up with. What do you have to say about the gay people that are disowned by their parents? That's about the worst kind of hate, being isolated from one's own family. Just b/c you and Ethan haven't been through it doesn't mean it doesn't happen to others.
obeyyourpug 1 month ago
@obeyyourpug actually, I have been through it. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I've never been isolated. I was bullied all throughout my childhood. Trust me, when someone calls you a homophobe, self-loathing closet case, bigot, or a cunt (all of which occurred), it's bullying. So is threatening, which also happened.
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
define "bullying" - last time i checked it was your chosen party who were indeed the roadblocks to LGBT Equality. what, specifically, are Gay Liberals doing other than calling out the shameful way in which you ignore this? we're not denying you your rights or freedoms - your chosen party is.
now, as per your religious beliefs - do you believe non-Christians go to heaven?
MOKandRIFF 1 month ago
@MOKandRIFF bullying is name-calling, personal attacks and threats, all of which I receive from gay liberals on a regular basis. Your tone so far has made it perfectly clear that you don't believe gay liberals are wrong for that sort of thing.
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
@melthefretmaster .....you're so busy focusing on "gay Liberals" that you seem to disregard the simple reality that the biggest roadblock toward LGBT Equality in America is the GOP.
you're so busy saying "liberals call me names!" that you've forgotten to do what gay conservatives pretend they should be doing - actually working to change hearts and minds within the GOP. Find me a GOP Candidate not running on an anti-gay platform. Can you? Not while you're bitching about liberals.
MOKandRIFF 1 month ago
@melthefretmaster genuinely - rather than saying "gay liberals called me mean names!" why don't you list, instead, which viable GOP candidates run on platforms of LGBT Equality?
Can you? try it.
MOKandRIFF 1 month ago
@MOKandRIFF this is where we come down to reality: I don't see gay rights as the most important thing in the world, and there isn't a conservative in America who will run on gay rights. There are MANY things that I see as being much more important than just gay rights.
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
@melthefretmaster yup. 1 in 4 LGBT Youth attempt suicide and to you it's just not a big deal.
No wonder your father wishes he didn't have to call you daughter. Genuinely. It's no wonder.
" I don't see gay rights as the most important thing in the world, and there isn't a conservative in America who will run on gay rights"
Exactly. Say it again: "there isn't a conservative in America who will run on gay rights"
CONSERVATIVE. plenty of liberals will. You proved me right. thanks.
MOKandRIFF 1 month ago
Actually I made a video response to The Gay Republican and I refuted what he said. He ignored all of them
Yewon2001 1 month ago
@Yewon2001 he saw it. I saw it. There was no point in responding to it because your "facts" are so skewed that it would take forever to deconstruct your arguments, and right now I'm still trying to get my voice back.
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
@melthefretmaster You say you want to debate but when someone makes a video refuting the stuff that gay conservatives try to spew you called it 'facts' and skewed. I wish I could say I'm surprised but I'm not. Anyway good luck to you
Yewon2001 1 month ago
@Yewon2001 saying that facts are skewed is honest, as opposed to just calling you a liar. Your facts are skewed - you were speaking as a person who didn't understand several of the subjects you talked about. I don't think you were lying because of the fact that you don't understand, much the way that social conservatives don't understand the way I look at things.
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
I have to admit you are the first female gay conservative but no surprises that you are white
Yewon2001 1 month ago
This was a very well done response. I also saw your comments on the Advocate story, and you're not lying. The only real difference between conservatives and liberals is that conservatives are straight up about their opinions, and liberals sneak and discriminate, then scream bigotry when people see their true colors. Ask minorities in the LGBT community. Ask Christians,many of whom would have their back if not for their mockery. Your conservatism is hardly the reason this mess continues.
douglaswaynetipton 1 month ago 3
actually we're being "dragged back" by those who continue to support anti-Equality candidates and movements. sorry, sugar.
its not about "disagreements" - it's the SPECIFICITY of those disagreements. your intellectual dishonesty is shameful. you lean right to save your own ass. it's cowardly.
Curious: what do you believe happens to non-Christians when they die?
MOKandRIFF 1 month ago
@MOKandRIFF I specifically asked for civility - intelligent debate. Calling me dishonest and cowardly is not civil. As for my faith, it is my business - I don't preach. If you have something other than a thinly-veiled challenge then by all means, offer it.
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
@melthefretmaster ok, and what is your faith? oh, it's "your business"? are we not capable of transparency? I'm a united church member, myself. intelligent debate? i'd like to see you try.
you're being intellectually dishonest. not all opinions are equal, or valid, or worth respecting. the problem is not "different opinions" but the SPECIFICITY of those opinions.
again - what do you believe happens to non-Christians when they die? very clear question.
MOKandRIFF 1 month ago
@MOKandRIFF if I thought you were asking an honest question I would be happy to respond. You aren't, though - you're issuing a challenge. I tend not to engage people like that.
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
And PS (500 characters is not really a great medium for having a constructive debate on any issue but I will do my best)... For the hatred and nastiness only coming from the liberals, have you spent any time on Free Republic and especially the "Homosexual Agenda" section where gay republican groups are regularly denounced as (to use the mildest expression) leftist infiltrators? The comment section of any gay-related article of the "family" site onenewsnow is not much kinder.
amarkanable 1 month ago
@amarkanable there are always going to be people who don't believe we're the real thing. You'll never get rid of them any more than you'll get rid of Stormfront. I have, however, managed to carry on actual conversations with some of those folks and they are often shocked to find that I'm the real deal. Several have changed their minds.
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
@melthefretmaster Re: civil conversations, I would love to see you try to create an account on FreeRepublic, comment on a story under "Homosexual Agenda" where you admit to being a gay conservative and see how many hearts you win over.More likely you'd be zotted in a flurry of names far nastier than any gay liberal has called you. They wisely have a no profanity policy but queer, pervert, dyke and faggot are still thrown around freely and I'm sure you would get all of those.
amarkanable 1 month ago
@amarkanable you mean the way I should go to Stormfront and do the same thing? One or two websites with a handful of idiots doesn't mean they're all out to get us. None of the conservatives I know - and there are a lot of people in my life - have much respect for FreeRepublic.
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
@melthefretmaster EXACTLY. Every group has a fringe of lunatics. You're pretty forgiving of your fellow conservatives/Christians and able to separate the mainstream from the lunatic fringe, you don't seem to have this same ability with gay liberals, or even fellow gays in general (like that SINGLE anonymous poster wishing SIDS on Mary Cheney's baby is not a typical gay or gay liberal).
amarkanable 1 month ago
@amarkanable Yet nobody in the gay community came out and condemned the remark. As I mentioned, it was originally posted on two different (now defunct) blogs. The remark got a lot of attention from conservatives at the time. When Ryan Sorba made his idiotic remarks at CPAC, he was booed off the stage before he could ever say what he was up there to say in the first place. That wouldn't happen at gay pride.
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
@melthefretmaster ryan sorba wouldn't get booed for being homophobic at gay pride? what are you talking about?
do you attend pride? i march with my parents in the parade every year. do YOUR parents march in the parade with you?
MOKandRIFF 1 month ago
OK, I will grant you those 4 words are overused. I can also understand being gay but still pro-life, pro 2nd amendment, pro small govt, etc. What I don't get is that you and many of your co-partisans cherish a book that calls gays an abomination, describes the destruction of a city due to the presence of our ancient counterparts and in the New Testament states that God gave us over to shameful lusts and puts us in the same category as liars, fornicators, etc.
amarkanable 1 month ago
@amarkanable you don't know much about the Bible. First of all, the OT calls anyone who fails to abide by the ceremonial law an abomination. It also calls tattooing and eating shrimp an abomination. That all changed in the NT. Jesus' death on the cross wiped out the need for ceremonial law and gave one simple, direct route to God. The ceremonial law in Leviticus that you're quoting is no longer in effect for Christians.
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
@melthefretmaster I am familiar enough with the Bible to know all of the gay Christian counter-arguments you have presented. One need only look at huge rifts in both in both Catholics and Protestant churches because of this debate (and which side of the rift the majority of people are on) to see how few Christians buy these arguments. Thanks though for being a strong voice from a side of the gay community that needs to be heard from.
amarkanable 1 month ago
@amarkanable as for the destruction of Sodom & Gomorrah, gay people were not the reason God destroyed them. The book of Ezekiel says that God destroyed them because they wanted for nothing yet they never helped the needy. Culture is important, too - gang rape was common then when humiliating an outsider or an enemy, and the act would be committed by heterosexual men. Jesus condemned them for inhospitality - not for being homosexuals.
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
@melthefretmaster the irony is that your chosen party chooses to use the story of Sodom to falsely discriminate against LGBT people when the story itself (Ezekiel 16) makes it rather clear that Sin of Sodom was GREED - those who have who don't share with those who have not. therefore the sodomite sinners of america are the wealthy who refuse to distribute said wealth and help those in need. oh, the irony.
MOKandRIFF 1 month ago
@amarkanable finally, we get to Paul entering Rome. Culture is important here, too. Debauchery was popular in Rome and the first thing he would have seen were the pagan temples where orgies were used as idol worship. THAT was what he was referring to. You also have to take different interpretations of the original Greek into account, which English versions have screwed up many times.
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
@amarkanable what you're quoting of the Bible is the human interpretation of it, and it is widely imperfect. I had to question all of that myself at one point. I don't have to believe the way all other Christians do, and frankly, I differ very sharply from mainstream evangelicals. My friends in that culture don't agree with me but they don't judge the condition of my soul for it, either.
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
@penlovmov, if you want to be that defeatist, it's your choice - I would rather try to make peace than assail them with every social injustice slur I know. I don't need a bunch of intolerant narcissists to approve of me to have high self-esteem, and I'm not willing to write anyone off.
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
You can be conservative, until the cows come home, they're still not going to give you your rights. As a straight Ally, I see this everyday. You associate with the right, and that says to me, you have no self respect. You think, you have problems now, if the GOP wins in Nov, they will eradicate all your rights. Do not be fooled by them.
penlovmov 1 month ago
@randallr01, I will remind you of the words of Dr. King: "Love is the only force capable of transforming an enemy into friend."
melthefretmaster 1 month ago
Do not forget that EVERY single LGBT Rights advancement was done so thru progressives — not by pandering to the Conservatives.
randallr01 1 month ago
BOTTOM LINE: Ethan Sabo supports those who deny LGBT our rights. Ethan *is* self-loathing and an enemy of Equality.
randallr01 1 month ago
Great points Mel with logic, reason and patience! You Rock!
arizonajen1 1 month ago
"If you can't give it, don't demand it!" I want the bumper sticker!
Hlejames 1 month ago
Thank you! I totally agree on the "hate" issue. If we blame every little bad thing on "hate", it waters down the things that are infact done out of hatred and bigotry.
Hlejames 1 month ago
Great video! I feel exactly that way. If you can't be respectful, you won't get respect. If you can't stop insulting others for having different opinions, you can't expect others to do you the same courtesy.
This is MeredithAncret, btw.
shirono 1 month ago
Thanks for posting that Mel. I couldn't agree more.
beckochan 1 month ago 4
This has been flagged as spam show
Leftists are the most shameless liars, much of it comes from post-Marx communist political thought - label what you do with a pleasant word, regardless of how inaccurate it is. Are you running a totalitarian power which has been securely in place for half a century? Call yourself revolutionary. Do you call for the murder of people who say things you don't like? Call this "tolerance."
To gays who think the left is your friend, take a good hard look at the attitudes of non-whites in the US
blackacidlizzard 1 month ago