My forcefully islamized Hamsheni Armenians

[nuneh]

LONG LIVE ARMENIANS!

[lonely54]

Armenians thinks everythings is Armenian :D this video is only armenian propaganda!

[amelli5555]

@lonely54 If this is an Armenian propaganda can you explain me why I, who speak Eastern Armenian, do not understand a single Turkish word, never set my foot in Turkey, can understand some parts of this song? Instead of talking about Armenian propaganda maybe we shall wake up and talk about Turkish propaganda? Please read this article titled "Islamized Armenians Discover Their Roots" and do not hesitate to forward it to your fellow Turks.

[lonely54]

@amelli5555 who are you? I don't think you are from hemshin... Have you ever been to hemshin? Hemshin's people are not armenian. They are laz(black sea nation).

[amelli5555]

@lonely54 No, I am not from Hamshin and never met one from there. The point I wanted to make was that our languages are linked since I can understand some parts from the Hamshini song. I did not say they are Armenians they have Armenian roots, which does not mean that they are Armenians. It is up to them to consider themselves whoever they want.

[damianmiran]

i have a couple friends from samsun turkij i always tell themm

you look like a armenian

i alwaysss knowww it

know i know it more

thanks for the video

hay power 4 life

aka DamianMiran Production

[MRV1939]

you guys live in our Armenian hearts.Noble and brave Hamshen- Armenians

[AzadArdziv]

jan hamshena Hayer

whether you are away,but you will still be in our hearts.

getse hamshen

[Boghosianm]

you guys are Armenians. so what are you waiting for ? go back to your roots

[HayTaguhi]

Thanks for this great video, we all in Armenia are with our Hamshenci brothers and sisters and will be supporting them in everything. I met with hamshenahayer this year in Borcka and we all burst into tears... VIVA ARMENIA and ARMENIANS!

[HayTaguhi]

Thanks for this great video, we all in Armenia are with our Hamshenci brothers and sisters and will be supporting them in everything. I met with hamshenahayer this year in Borcka and we all burst into tears- VIVA ARMENIA!

[TheArmeniabest]

ARMYANE FOREVER

[apo443]

GENOSID  SOYKURUM JENOSID

[eilirudy]

I found Kazem koyuncu's music on iTunes.

It's so beautiful it actually hurts to listen to.

Imagine all the beautiful culture we lost in all those centuries of persecution our people suffered.

What a fucked up world this is!

[sassyluv7]

Long live Hamshen Armenians!!!!!!!

[robert6192]

Боле 600лет Турки (с1453 года)ассимилируют народы покорившихся им народов и присваивают все что им принадлежало.Ассимиляция продолжается и в наши дни,а Европа молчит до каких пор пока и сама Европа не ассимилируется с Турками и станет новой Османским....... Не дай бог

[niveldesdesiempre]

Long life HAMSHEN ARMENIANS!

[sneighwena]

I am not Armenian, but I felt sad watching this video because we also had something similar happen. The only thing is to make sure that Turkey ALLOWS minorities have their rights and then people can try to trace their family roots, but only if they wish to. Sometimes, with language and culture barriers, it is not possible. Unfortunately or fortunately -depending, people eventually become whatever is around them. It does not take many generations for that to happen till all is lost.

[MuslimArmenian]

When we Armenians hate another race or religion, how are we any different than those who killed us for our race and religion. It becomes and endless cycle of death. Reserve your hatred only for those responsible, and not their decendents or brothers.

[DuckingNDiving]

you are a turk so don't tell lies

[Arzive]

You are right. Hate helps no one. My friends and I believe one thing: the enemy of Armenians are not Turks, and the enemies of Turks are not Armenians. Our true enemies are those who made us enemies, whether it is the current Turkish government, or foreign opportunists and manipulators. Assyrians, Armenians, Laz, Kurds, Greeks, and Turks, without their past in the way, would be a true brotherhood because after all, we are all one people with different ethnic backgrounds: Anatolians.

[MuslimArmenian]

also, please dont hate Muslims or Turks for the genocide. It was the Young Turks and Ataturk who were responsible. I dont believe that we can hate this generation of Turks for what happened, i dont believe the son inherits the fathers sin, so dont say you hate turks. The entity to blame is the Turkish Government. They are the ones who let the genocide live. Many Turks who have learned of their governments propaganda reject them and condemn the genocide.

[soureroubar1]

My dear muslim Armenian didnt your holy quran teach you eye for eye teeth for teeth...and how u can translate this sentencess...only in our holy bibiles say that who slap in your face turn your other chick.

[Arzive]

You are right, we cannot hate the current generation of Turks for the genocide. But picture it this way. A criminal murders a mother and denies it. Two generations later, you are the grandson of that mother, and in front of you is the grandson of the criminal. If he denies the acts of his grandfather, then he becomes an accomplice, as he is continuing his grandfather's lie. He may be brainwashed by family pride and his grandfather's alibi, but the facts still remain the same.

[MuslimArmenian]

Wow, im extremely impressed, all the info in this video is perfect, but there is a problem. Only 2,300 views. Please my brothers, try to send this video around your communities, if we Armenians dont know about our Hamsheni brothers then they will be assimilated into other nations. It is so rare for me to find an Armenian who knows who the Hamsheni are, we need to spread the information and unite our nations. Weve had too many genocides to let us lose one another.

[soureroubar1]

and another thing my dear Armenian brother our time come our rising time read the bibile what jesus say in the revalation 2 and 3 about christains in Asia minor...and you know who were are we Armenainas and greeks and assirians..

[AraratCenter]

They are not Armenian anymore. There are no muslim Armenians, Hamsheni Armenians are our genetic gift to the mongoloid nomadic seljuks.

[lifemaster1g]

They will stay Armenains as long as they consider themselves so.

[Arzive]

If you think about it, they're not Armenians anymore, but neither are we. We just inherited the name "Armenian" from our ancestors because we managed to stay united. Eastern Armenians, Western Armenians, Hamshen Armenians, Persian Armenians, we are all descendants of an Ancient Armenian people. We are all sons and daughters of the same mother and father, and have taken, or forced to take, different paths. The only thing Hamshen Armenians lack that we don't is the Armenian script.

[youtharmenia]

Special Thanks to Vashdonoglu for this great video

[Ochsenburg]

important and good information!

thankss

[ArmenianPride123]

I still don't understand why it is so bad for us Armenians to become Muslim. And if your going to respond don't give me the crap that they're dirty or something like that because that is bull. Just tell me whats wrong with Islam.

[tina1988x]

its not islam, but armenians were killed by turks for being christian, the same thing happened in balkan albania, thats why most balkan albanians are muslinm

[ArmenianPride123]

Yeah, but I still don't understand why Islam is frowned upon by Armenians, like, if an Armenian became a Muslim, other Armenians would go nuts about it. I mean, if it works for some people, then who has the right to stop them?

[haydgha1]

We don't hate any religions , each religion for themselfs, but we put different between turks bcos they massacred our population 1,5 millions Armenians dead at 1915, and for that maybe some Armenians don't trust to all muslims its about dark past history.....ofcourse the muslims i mean poor population use the religion as weapon almost in poor lands where is no education and comes lot terrible terror or suicid attacks on innocent peoples.

i hope you undestand now.

are you realy Armenian?

[ArmenianPride123]

Ayo, yes hayem. And I knew about the Genocide, but that is against Turks, we've lived alongside Arabs and Persians and Muslims for thousands of years, and only the Turks have really put us through suffering, while Persians and Arabs haven't really put us through that much. I understand the dislike of Turks, but not the dislike of Muslims.

[arawolf]

nothing wrong with islam, bro.

religion means nothing if blood is everything.

the negativity comes mainly from armenian church - intentionally or not, doesn't really matter.

since childhood, armenians are taught by fathers of the church "christianity is our skin".

i.e. "if you're not christian you're not armenian".

that's literally what a priest told me once, when we were arguing about religion's role in our history.

[obucan]

the sad thing is most of the turkish arguments are no advanced than these elegant arguments of yours, so it's just a piece of noise that makes no sense. good luck with your fight both turks and armenians

[VaheTheGreate]

Common, dont put it in equal bases: turks got NO ARGUMENTS, all they can do is to make a lot off noise:)

[obucan]

well they cannot even make noise either actually , noone seems to listen to them in the global political arena

[VaheTheGreate]

why any one should listen to them?

[Gagikangelo]

Thank you for sharing this video, and many thanks to Vasanoglu for the website he dedicated to the Hamsheni Armenians!

Anyone who thinks, Hamshen Armenians forgotten their roots, they are dreaming to see Hamsheni Armenians assimilated with turks. That will never happen!

Armenian BLOOD WILL NEVER GIVE UP its ROOTS!!!

[Arathegreat007]

Thnx that's right :)

[paul130258]

You better beleive it brother in blood.

My roots are from Adana and I am reading about my Hamshem brothers.

Actually I know some of your people (friend of mine knows them).

Kisses from Adana

(menk vreje loudzetsing) ayt jamanag.

[Gagikangelo]

I belive you My Brother! I Belive my Hamshin Armenians, because many relatives I Have from Hamshin Lives in Sukhumy area in Abkhazia!

Blood never tuns in to a water!

Kisses from Armenia Abkhazaia and Canada!

[apo443]

SHENORHAVOR NOR DARI

[Urartu1]

Once Armenian, always Armenian...No way around it. Neither religion matters nor dialect... blood flowing in our veins says it all.

[obucan]

are u romantic or surreal? perception is everything, not the historical proofs

[Urartu1]

obucan,

In reality anyone that thinks perception is everything lingers in surrealism. You may only accuse me of being a realist, since both history and genetics are indisputable facts. Hamshenis have mostly kept their original Armenian bloodline and it is only matter of time for all of them to re-learn their history and join their brethren.

[obucan]

sweet dreams

[Urartu1]

abucan,

Blood is like magnet, it attracts. I believe in "sweet dreams".....my dream just might very well turn out to be your nightmare :O)

[obucan]

that would not be my nightmare, i dont mind them end up being armenian "again" but still it would take 14923324634634 years for them to be magnitized to ur blood and till then any kind of nationalism will end i hope.. sweet dreams again since u love it so much i'll wish u more :)

[paul130258]

hey obucan. Obu (some father's son) and Can (sound). You think you are that strong. I will give a nice dream. I am from Adana. I am alive. You shitty mongoloids never dared to touch us after 1894-06. My grandfather actually chopped your grandfather. So, You must be a bastard. Come visit me, or better still I will visit you in your dreams. You hear the word Adana imagine me with a nice Kurdish long knive looking down at you. Pleasant dreams. Kisses from Adana ermani.

[obucan]

what made u this mad and made u say these words right here? what made u think i'm a mongoloid and even if being a mongolian is sth really condescending, isnot it so bad that ur grandfather was deported by those mongoloids? maybe that makes you that much angry? my nickname is not obu - can ..

[obucan]

and i dont give a shit if you get back adana and found your armenian kingdom. the most naive thing is that u still believe you can kill all those 50 sth million turks and replace them. face it , you cannot get it back and make it only yours, you need a compromize and a civlized way of talking. nothing spitting some "mongoloid words" as u did to me without knowing what i mentioned above. and that's not ermani, it's ERMENi .. and i would never support any shame that my grandfather had commited

[paul130258]

Live in shame then you abed negro Obu Can. It does sound like Obama doesn't it.

For your knowledge I am Hay and not a mongoloid (oops not Turkish ermeni).

Your grandfather is a killer or Ataturk is or both of them.

Killer people, sick people.

Accept the genocide then we talk about you giving me back the family land in Adana. I know where it is. I have been there. The neighbours still remember.

Orouspou oghlan is what you are.

Kisses from Adana. Big Adana.

[obucan]

you're so elegant yeah, kill them and make adana the capital, me mongolian nigger will be the slave of that big armenian empire because of ataturk: which means mongoloid and negro.. i did get it well i guess, right?

[paul130258]

I forgot to mention the Mamlouk Seljouk mercenary part. One great poet "abou firas al-hamadani wrote "don't buy a slave without the cane" and of course the mamlouk killed him.

In those days the slaves were black. With you mongoloids, white became one.

You never had a country.

You just invade, kill, loot and after that kill again periodically and say "we had to do it becuse it is in your DNA"

Get it.

Sorry I forgot to mention this part.

Have a life and confess. Peace be with you.

[obucan]

you're repeating the same chorus, not even reading what i write.. i'm not a turk from central asia, dork

[paul130258]

Hey snork,

I am extending an olive branch.

You sound like a normal person (half crazy and so am I).

How about that???

Peace and reconciliation opportunity!!

What say you??

[olmakvar]

koyım çüktuun yere....

[Gregory10000000000]

Very interesting.I had some knowledge about Hamesheni Armenians, but this video is quite informative.Thank you ArmenianPatriot for sharing.

[ArmenianPatriot]

Thank you very much for that video! And thanks to Vashdonoglu for creating it!

That was very interesting.

[SafkanOsmansoylu]

Once Ottomans starting loosing the lands2 their original righfull owners in 5 continents,These convert1's including Kemal Ataturk (whose background isn't even clearly thought to current Turkish generations)had to come up with the Idea of creating a Homogenized Anatolia only 4 Muslim Turks that's whyTheEthnic clensening tookPlaceSeverly. Greeks,Assyrians,Chercessians, andThe biggest lose Armenians were all victoms ofThis ethnic cleansening,that's the reason today there is non except Turk inTC

[ShineCity711]

Where are you from are you Armenian Hasheni?? also I'd have to add the Bulgarians lost almost half their population due to depopulating by Ottomans aswell as lebonese, Syrians and Chaldeneans some Laz and Kurds where killed too I think right figures are Lebon - 50 thous Chaldeas - 70-100 thous Laz 20-50 thous Kurds - 200-400 thous including after the WW1 genocide Syrian - 50-70 thous,,and Armo 1.4 -1.7 mill Greek 0.5-1 mill Assyri 1.5 mill, also Jews- 30-70 thous turks 250 thous..that's alot!

[paul130258]

Oh ye,

You do shine where the sun doesn't see.

Topju always.

Did you grow breast also??

You transvestite killer mongoloid sicko??

And we helped killing 250k turks without any invitation in Adana for pay back.

Now we want interest.

Adana from asli Adani with kisses.

Petcakh is always ready.

[SafkanOsmansoylu]

haytamrt,

did you know that Armenians call themself Hay,(HI)in Armenian? Why did you adapt such a nick name I wonder?

Now ,if you want to really impress anyone with your History Knowladge,I suggest that FIRST you start writing those things in English so everyone can understand where you are coming from by also indicating the sources you ve got 'm. it is no secret that TC turkeyland after the Ottoman Collapse,was established by young Turanist Turks mostly from Balkans who were convert Jews.

[ShineCity711]

oh and additionally Bulgars - 2-3 mill,,,so there's more...

[paul130258]

Hey forgotten tatar so called osmanli.

Do you have a coin to prove who you are?

I have your grandfather's one. Care to collect it you little sicky mongoloid.

That is your tatar little name.

Say hi to Genkhis (the butcher) Khan.

Turanism is dead just like you. The good part is, you are so stupid that you don't know it yet.

Love from Adana.

PS. Sorry we missed your family while avenging our cousins.

EU will get you. Open the door and we will help you.

[obucan]

do you know if georgian and laz are two different ethnical appertanances?

[kazibeg]

Laz and Georgian are one ethnic group, one language and one blood! to be exact Laz are exactly the same Megrelians that live in west Georgia, the only difference between Laz and Megrels is religion, thats all.

[obucan]

that makes u racist not me.. can u proove that they are one race out of ur states official ideology? and world watched where it leaded ur country.. hope u will wake up and stop being proud of something and start being only urself

[zviadan]

do the hemshins themselves who live in turkey know that they are originally armenians?

[apo443]

ASELARE  YANI ERMENI 100/100

[haytamrt]

Tarihi kaynaklardan Hemşinlilerin atalarının Hamadan/Hemedan'dan ayrıldıktan sonra Kars-Göle dolaylarına yerleştikleri;sonradan Acaristan ve Çoruh bölgesine inerek Çoruh'u karşıya geçtikleri ifade edilmekte ve Bizans kralı 6.Konstantin yerleştirildikleri belirtilmektedir.

Ayrıca Osmanlı vergi defterinde Hemşinliler için;"Muselmanı Kaldı"yani :1461 Osmanlı Fethi öncesi eski müslümanlar ifadesini kullanması da bu durumu doğurmaktadır

[haytamrt]

Uzun süre Amadan- Hamadan yöresini kendilerine yurt eedilen bu Türk oymağı.daha sonraları Sasaniler'in bu dine geçmeleri için zorlamaları üzerine .bu yörede tutunamayacaklarını anlayınca 623 yıllarında Hamam Beğ idaresinde Rize yöresine göçüp"Danpur"denilen yıkık kasabayı imar ettiler.Yeniden imar ettikleri bu beldeye beylerinin adına izafeten"Hamama Şen (Hamama Bad/Hamamın şenlendirdiği)"adını verdiler.Bu Türkçe ad zamanla Hemşen/Hemşin biçimine girerek günümüze kadar geldi.

[haytamrt]

Akkoyunlu Türk Devleti zamanında (1350-1502) Rizenin güney kesimde yer alan Hemşine birçok Türk botu yerleşmiştir.Aşağı Çamlıca(vişe)ve Molaveyis(ülkü) köy de bulunan Koç heykelleri bu yörelerdeki doğu Anadolu ve Azerbaycan gibi diğer Türk bölgelerinde de bulunmaktadır.Koyun ve koç heykelleri ortaasya Türk kültüründen kaynaklanmaktadır.

[haytamrt]

Bu Türk boyları içerisinde M.S623 yıllarında Hamam Beğ İdaresinde bugünkü Hemşin yöresinde bir oğuz Oymağı,dahja önce Oğuz-Türkmen -Partlı/Arşaklı Devletini kuran 1.Akşak(M.Ö 250 - M.Ö 257) tarafından Manua idaresinde bir ön kuvvet koruyucu olarak AmadanHamadan yöresine yerleşmişti.

[obucan]

im not sure if someone mentioned about it but neither kazim koyuncu nor gökhan birben are hemshotsis. they just sang some hemshotsi songs occasionally. and those numbers of 500 to 750 000 must be living in russia, cuz today there are no more than 30 000 hemshotsis .. i just wanted to be sure if there's an exageration or a misunderstanding.

[zviadan]

kazim koyuncu was Laz-Georgian.

[obucan]

he was LAz though which is quite different than a georgian

[apo443]

ASVADZ BACHBANI MER AZKE

[paul130258]

Bourj Hammoud gam Artsakh kena.

Hon guedesnas inch guenenk turk mellatin.

Zoravor yeghir

[mizzLebanese]

i respect how u aknowledge that it is against islam to force religion and then continue to tell ur story <3

ez.

[cscbjg]

the muslims force them because; "they know the truth...We Christians have the one true God."

The Christians that refused are surely in heaven right now.

[janan67]

I am against forcing people to accept any religion. But I don't understand the reason why if an armenian accepts Islam s/he is not considered armenian any more. If armenians are ancient people it means before christianity they had different religion. Does it mean those armenians weren't armenian either? And btw r these ppl still muslim? So now that nobody is forcing them why they don't become christians again? don't accept this comment as an offence, I'm just curious.

[Arathegreat007]

Im sure you are aware of turkish policy toward christians. And yes Armenia I believe was Zoroastrian(Pagan), that believed in many gods. Armenia's Gods are closely related to Greek Gods, except I think each god having different ability from another. This video is about the selected Armenian group. There are also Hamsheni Armenians in Russia, Georgia that still remained Christians. Turkey was the one that was forcing everyone to become muslim.

[Arathegreat007]

Even when Eastern Part of Armenia was under Persian control during Turko-Persian war, Persia didn't have such a policy of forcefully converting non-muslims to muslim(or slaughter if they refused to become muslim). Armenians still remained Christians until Ruso-Persian war and today.

[Arathegreat007]

It's was Turkish policy to slaughter those who were Christians and non turkish elements eventually. Im sure you know the policy toward kurds(before making kurds to slaughter us, then turning around and trying to get rid of kurds).

[janan67]

My question wasn't about who converted whom. In fact zaorostian azeris became muslim because persians forced them to become muslim,and the last zaorostian to rebel against persian-islamic rule was Babek Khurramdin who was azeri himself. I was asking why armenian when they become muslim r not accepted by their fellow armenians. Thnx.

[Arathegreat007]

LOL :) In what's today Azerbaijan was Caucasian Albania. There did happen attempt of Persia trying to convert Armenia, Georgia, and Albania into muslim countries. But after the rebellion battle of 451 AD led by Vardan Mamikonyan(whose dynasty on their mother side some people say was Chinese), Persia failed the battle and recognized them as Christians with the Nvarsak treaty reducing all the taxes and any other pressure.

[janan67]

I was talking about Azerbaijan in general, the part of which is in Iran now. I guess you have checked the map to see the northern part of Iran is called Azerbaijan province and Babek was from South Azerbaijan.Albania was a christian state but they became muslims without being forced. And Islam emerged in VII AD, I don't think Vardan's rebel had anything to do with Islam.

[BeautySavesWorld]

Check out my video abt Urartu/Armenian Kingdom and u will find what is now called Southern Azerbaijan in Iran is ancient historical part of first Armenian civilisation Urartu which was called Armenian Kingdom since 6 BC...

[janan67]

In fact Urmiyah of Southern Azerbaijan (North Iran) belonged to state called Aratta. And its not surprising at all that it might have been gone under Urarturian rule, since Urartu was the biggest kingdom of its time. Even Albania was for some time under Urartu and historians were writing in armenian.But after Persia (VII AD)became the part of Caliphate not everybody was converted into Islam including with azeris of persia and they were forced to accept Islam

[VaheTheGreate]

@janan67, my friend, Aratta and Urartu is the 2 names of the same country. Like Hayastan and Armenia:)Dependes of the language of the sourse.

[janan67]

my friend, in that source that I read Urartu and Aratta were mantioned at the same time and this source is based on the writings of albanian historian, the thing is his writings are in armenian therefore it was possible to read them,otherwise as u must know albanian letters and language is still emains as a mystery to historians.

[BeautySavesWorld]

Historians,archeologists r not really sure if Aratta existed coz it only is mentioned in mythology, Sumarian legends..all the speculations come based on them and many archeologists, histrorians believe it is abt Urartu/Armenia.Nevertheless the territory of today's Southern Azerbaijan is firmly mentioned as a part of Urartu/Armenian Kingdom which means Armenians built it for themselves, how much of our cultrue still exists there if any at all?

[janan67]

.final conversion of azeris into Islam took place in IX AD by the destruction of Khurramids and their leader (Babek) was deceived by his armenian counterpart Aqshin (it was also called a rebel against persian/islamic rule).You can find more information on Azerbaijan of Persia in history of Islam, more precisely during the reign of Caliph Umar bin Khattab.

[VaheTheGreate]

@janan67, how ever my question to you is different. Don't tack it as offence , I am just curios, Azeri Zoroastrians? What are you talking about, the ones who call them self Azeri now mostly mix of Tatars and Seljuk's who come to this region just in 11 century.

[janan67]

But look what do you mean by tatars? the people who live in Tataristan (RF) now?they are different boyat (branch in eng.)of Altaic (Turkic)lang. family and we are Oghuz boyat,they r early inhabitants of Siberia and we are spread mostly in Caucasus and around Caspian sea,we don't have anyhing in common with tatars. We have been called tatars by russians after our 'discovery' by Peter and I think u can easily make reasoning why.

[janan67]

As to seljucks, no we are not seljucks.Azeris did exist before 11th cent., as I said before Azerbaijan is mentioned in Islamic history during VII cent (like expedition of Umar bin Khattab to Azerbaijan, etc)but of course as a part of Persia.the state that belonged to azeris in 11-12th cent was Atabeyler(in Nakhchivan)and they were fighting seljucks.

[VaheTheGreate]

@janan67,Do you mean the Persian provinbce ATERPATAKAN?:))) As that is the only thing what can be mentioned in 7 century in that area..

It got nothing to do with tatars or seljuks who call themself azeris, and come to region just in 11 century... And please...do not breang Nakhichevan to any connection with "antient " azeris...

[janan67]

and how u think the name Azerbaijan was formed :)? Azerbaijan is only arabic form of Atropatakan or Aderbayqan. and the name azeri comes from this word. about tatars I can assure u we have nthng in common as to seljucks its more likely that we have same roots at least as it was said in Dada-Qorqud book (VI AD).cuz its said oghuz turks were divided into inter and external oghuz and it was the difference between us and seljucks.

and I don't remember mentioning about 'ancient azeris':(

[BeautySavesWorld]

Nakhichevan means "Noah stayed here" in Armenian and shows explicitely connection with Van in Western Armenia ( Eastern Turkey now) and YereVAN...it is one of our Armenian Christian identities...

[janan67]

Could be, because there is still a rock in Nakhchivan which has a shape of boat, and still people in Nakhchivan go to that place saying it was a ship that belonged to Noah.Anyway this is an interesting fact.

[janan67]

And I guess it might be interesting for you to know that even before seljuck existence (I am discarding azeris cuz for you it's still mystery how we ended up in caucasus) in caucasus there were Qypchak (cumani) and Hazar turks living in northern caucasus (pre-islamic times) and they were mentioned in oghuz dastan called Dada-Qorqud.If u know turkish u can still find this book in world's museums (Drezden f.i.)

[Arathegreat007]

And I don't think they are not accepted by their fellow Armenians. There could be some Armenians with refusing ideas to accept them, but overall they are part of us, how can we refuse them? We are only going to help them get on foot.

[janan67]

Well, I hope it is the way you say. because in different armenian forums that I have checked specially with the intention of finding 'muslim armenian' it seemed to me that if some armenian accepts Islam then usually armenians do not accept these people and I think it's not fair.Because religion has nothing to do with national identity.

[VaheTheGreate]

I understand your question, you see, Armenians converted to Islam were loosing their identity. The Christianity helped preserve us our national identity in mostly Muslim environment. It is not that Armenians wouldn't accept Islamized Armenians, it is that Islamized Armenians wouldn't be Armenians any more, they wouldn't care about their identity.

[janan67]

Well I wouldnt put it this way. I mean I am azeri and muslim at the same time and it doesn't affect to my identity. May be you mean preserving the unity of armenians? well being divided into muslim and christian might divide this unity, but religion doesn't change the identity.

[Arathegreat007]

I agree with you in this case. The religion doesn't change the identity. Very correct said. But the identity can also be forgotten if religion is also forced and succeeded. We have always fought for our religion and identity against those who forced us to do something. Which means that if they already forced us to change our religion, it will not be hard also to force us to change our identity.

[BeautySavesWorld]

I am not sure I agree on that point. What janan says is the way it actually should be ( religion doesn't change national identity) but in reality sunni and shias kill each other and don't consider one another of the same nation..they call each other infidels/kaffirs and the hate is enourmous

[janan67]

You know the problem is human beings are so greedy that they could find any excuse to fight. Actually there were cases when shias fought each other, like azeris and iranias and they both were shias.Probably if armenians were left 'alone' they would have also found excuses to fight each-other,the only thing that prevented it was that they always had to fight against others,so they didn't 'have time' for that.

[BeautySavesWorld]

Don't u worry, they have always found time to politically fight each other, all the time lol There is more disagreements between us then consent ut really shias/sunnis murdering each other is the most stupidest thing, the same nation, the same religion, just some differences...

[VaheTheGreate]

Don't worry, Armenians fought each other enough as well. There were times when Armenian Nakharars (Princes) were fighting each other in aliens with different invaders...

[janan67]

You see, there is always some reason to fight and then we start to blame the religion, etc. look even Quran prohibits compulsion in religion but this wasn't usually fulfilled.We even change the religion to the direction we want.

And beauty you are quite right, right now this is the stupidest thing that humans could do.

[VaheTheGreate]

Well the last war didn't have nothing to do with religion.....Nerveless if we would loose it, the ancient churches in Karabakh would be destroyed as everything Armenian was destroyed in Nakhichevan....

[janan67]

vahe, I didn't get your point, anyway if we wanted to detroy the churches there was enough time for that.and there are still churches in Azerbaijan, nobody is destroying them. even recently they have reconstructed the 'Armenian church' right in the center of Baku.I'm looking forward to see the same act by armenians concerning to Shusha mosque:)

[VaheTheGreate]

I am not talking about propaganda actions, I am talking about thousands of Khachqars and churches destroyed in Nakhichevan.

[VaheTheGreate]

What you mean "the Armenian Chourch" , do you think there was just one Armenian Church in Baku?:))

[janan67]

I see u r determined to offend me in anyway, am I the first azeri u r talking with?:)look I am neither from Nakhchivan or Baku, in fact half of my family is from Armenia they are deported azeris.If u want I can also talk to u about azeri graves and cultural heritage destroyed in Armenian and in Garabagh.what's the point of it?what do u want to prove, personally to me?

[Arathegreat007]

Are you one of those that was vise versa deported from Armenia and Azerbaijan? What part of Armenia did you live in?

[janan67]

it's not exactly me, but my mother's family and they were living in Goyche or Krasniy.

[Arathegreat007]

Goyche or Krasniy? Where is it?

[VaheTheGreate]

@Arathegreat007It is a very poor small vilage in North East, yah there were some azeris living...

[Arathegreat007]

oh ok thanx. :) I remember when I was a child living with my Grandparents. They used to live in Dashkesan, which I believe still remained under the turks control. As much as I remember people were called to flee because the war was going to break out. I believe it was around 1988. Entire families had to escape the area because the turks were lunching a military action.

[janan67]

yes it was in 88.

[janan67]

Goyche is area around Sevan Lake, it includes towns as Sevan, Dilican Icevan, Basarkecher(at least these are the towns where my family used to live as far as I know)but my grandparents used to live in Krasniy, which is small town also in the same area.Another name was Qaragoyunlu I guess.

[VaheTheGreate]

What an ugly name you got for a such a beautiful place:)))

[janan67]

Ugly? :D GÖyçə or GÖyçəy means 'very beatiful' in azeri, may be you meant it sounds ugly. I can understand, don't worry, same here concerning to armenian:)

[VaheTheGreate]

@janan67,who cares how azeris call our lands? How do you say in azeri Mongolia?

[Arathegreat007]

To be quite honest I don't blame her(Janan67), but the truth is that azeri are tatars, that are here on the place of Caucasian Albania, and now are financing the Caucasian Albanian history as their own. Even our ex president confirmed that. If you want, you can check it out; its in my favorites.

[paul130258]

I have a better one:

Azar=Bazar=Balash=Bello=Barab=­Tatar=Eshag=Khan (Genghis)

That is their history=kill=kill=kill.

[janan67]

Goyche is a small province like Zangezur, it includes towns around Sevan Lake like Icevan, Dilijan, Sevan, Basarkecher. At least these are the towns where my family used to live, so I might know not all of the towns. But my grandparents used to live in Krasniy which is located in this area as well.

[VaheTheGreate]

She wants to say Gosh:)))

[VaheTheGreate]

@janan67, Hey man, where are azeris and wher is the cultural heritage? You are kind of confused:))))

[VaheTheGreate]

@janan67, you are not fierst azeri I talk with, but you are the fierst azeri who does not shoot at me or I do not shoot sinse 1989...:)))

[janan67]

so you took part in war or what? now I see where all these sarcastic comments come from, keep up your job, 'my friend', i'm not willing to shoot anyway...and i am not man btw.

[VaheTheGreate]

Oh I should have guessed, you are to sofisticated for an azeri man....:))))

[Arathegreat007]

You never force anybody to do what's in your will. Christianity in 301 AD became official religion in Armenia without through force or revolution.

[VaheTheGreate]

@janan67, yes in some way that is what happened to Hamshenlys, they converted to Islam but kept their identity somehow, however it is just an exclusion which confirms rule:)

[BeautySavesWorld]

As u see Armenians were forcefully converted into Islam,not by choice.Armenian official policy is to try to bring those Armenians back into our "family" but all our attpemts have been blocked by Turkish Govt so far.There r some Armenians who reject them as they see them as traitors..while our ancestors chose to die their ancestors converted to Islam to survive.

[janan67]

What do you mean by 'back into family'?

[BeautySavesWorld]

not geographically but let them know they r Armenians,connect with our culture, learn Armenian, etc...but for now it is uthopia...

[CilicianAri]

personally i think an armenian that is forced to be muslim, WHICH WAS VERY VERY UNLIKELY AND A RARE CASE!!! like the hamshens, isnt considered Armenian to me anymore!! i know its tough, but thats how i look at it!

[Arathegreat007]

I wouldn't suggest you to take aggressive stance on that issue. Imagine if they all also refused to be converted. They would be massacred as well. Turk carried out the Genocide to those who are non turkish elements. I would be glad to have them united us and learn their mother language again and remember their original religion. Those things are the consequences of not having army. In Byuzandine Armenia, they didn't allow us to hold weapon and we received what we were going to receive.

[CilicianAri]

well im still a bit iffy, about it unless, they imidiatly convert back to christianity, (p.s. i could care less about religion, i just care about the identity) and learn to speak PROPER ARMENIAN IMMIDIATLY!

[VaheTheGreate]

I agree with Arathegreat, you cant judge so severely... I sow thousands of Kurds in eastern Anatolia who obviously had Armenian blood, but they can not be considered Armenians, what is interesting about Hamshenlys they were converted to Islam but nerveless somehow preserved their identity....

[Arathegreat007]

Thank you a lot brother :)

[paul130258]

When the killings and massacres were ongoing, you chose not to fight back. You are alive at least.

We in Adana, we gave more than we received. We are still alive and kicking.

Welcome back cousin.

You do remember the word "siroum em or gue sirem kezi".

From new Adana (Bourj-Hammoud) kissing from Artsakh.

[VaheTheGreate]

Very interesting video, enjoyed watching...thanks.