The FairTax: Truths, Half-Truths, Lies, and Recommendations

[MrJjjd1]

"Actayally, the IRS collects taxes no matter what the source" in response to the FairTax taxing the underground economy,

sure, drug dealers, the mafia REGULARLY report their income and file 1040 forms, right? Wrong, however, under the FairTax they WILL contribute to the revenue of the U.S. because what is the use of making all that untaxed money if you can't spend it and all of them will buy something AND pay the tax!

[kmarinas86]

@MrJjjd1

No.

1) Instead of illegally hiding THEIR INCOME to evade their income taxes which THEY must collect according to current law, they would illegally hide THEIR SALES to evade sales taxes which THEY must collect according to FairTax law.

2) Instead of a portion of their spending going to pay for EMBEDDED INCOME TAX, a portion of their spending goes to paying for the EMBEDDED FAIR TAX.

The underground ALREADY evade sales and income taxes.

[kmarinas86]

@kmarinas86

"Sales tax is nor more free than my proposal where retailers DO NOT collect or pay federal tax, ONLY the banks."

When I say this, this only applies in the IDEAL scenario where cash is not used to make payments. Because more than 95% of money is already digital, the above can reduce the auditing costs by about just as much. MILLIONS can be saved that way. Only companies that still accept physical cash as payment would have to collect federal tax. Otherwise, they are "underground".

[kmarinas86]

@kmarinas86

And finally, the best argument for my proposal versus the FairTax is that retail prices will certainly experience a one-time fall, not increase, during a transition to my system. In contrast, a possible one-time "17% increase in retail prices" was in fact admitted by FairTax's second book. Yes, the banks would charge the taxes directly from spending, but because the retailers only have to worry about collecting taxes on cash SALES, it will become DOUBLY easier to lower the prices.

[SamSlay46]

The folks that argue will foul language about the benefit of the FairTax are coming from ignorance. Otherwise the need for profanity would not be necessary. This is just like what I heard from an attorney once. 1st you are the facts. If that will not work in your favor 2nd argue the law and if this still does not work 3rd just curse and argue maybe you can confuse them. See if this applies to the 12 Fly above.

[Maxlorad]

My opinion is just that, mine.

This video is just a opinion based on nothing more than what you think and feel.

It doesn't have the credit to back it.

[12FlyMe]

Reading the Fairtax Book for proof is like reading Bernie Maddoff report to his investors -- total BULLSHIT.

Since Fairtax leaders know their own plan is a huge farce -- and is based on a magical massive tax on government -- they won't even have hearings under oath, much less pass it.

Fairtax is like a Magic Pony that shits gold. Sounds great -- but there won't be any gold coming out of that pony -- just horse shit.

[Maxlorad]

Except Bernie didn't have a large majority of people on his side or the brightest individuals in the field of economics in the same room.

[12FlyMe]

Sorry Max -- not one single economist thinks you can put massive sales taxes on every dime that every city and state and county spends, to create money.

Got that you lunatic? Not one.

Whoever supported the Fairtax didnt have a clue what the details were. They didn't know you lunatics were going to put the worlds highest sales tax on everything from rent, to car insurance, to government spending.

In other words dumb ass - it sounded good until the you see the details.

[sjsod70]

@12FlyMe You need to bone up on your research.... actually the great majority of experts agree... the emerging countries that have implemented this type of tax have economies that are booming.

[12FlyMe]

@sjsod70 wrong dumb fuck -- thre is no place on EARTH that taxes the government for most of their own income you fucking idiot. Do you grasp that yet moron? Fairtax is a fucking total farce, and its own leaders know it, retard. They are NOT trying to pass it, shit they avoid hearings under oath for 13 years idiot.

FT is based on getting MOST of government revenue by taxing the GOVERNMENT -- you dumb fuck. Its a crock of shit you dumb fuck. So no, idiot, other countries dont do it.

[SouthernFriedHoney]

@sjsod70 you stupid fuck -- no, no one, and I mean NO ONE ON EARTH , says Fairtax will work. NO ONE. Not when they know in its fine print it's a massive tax on government.

You stupid shit, show me any country that just charges it's own country huge taxes.

How can you fuck tards be so fucking stupid?

[timjobes]

DISCLAIMER FOR THOSE SERIOUS ABOUT DISCUSSING THE FAIRTAX: Sincere, intellectually honest debate is ALWAYS welcome, but ignore the person known as 12FlyMe/NawwLeans/Bullship Detector, etc. He continually posts a rash of lies, slanders, name-calling, and general nonsense, and has no interest in honest debate on HR25. Despite multitudes of facts and rational arguments presented in response to his rants, he continues undeterred in his campaign of misinformation. Pay no attention to him.

[NawwLeans]

Why the fuck have real studies shown a national sales tax is theoretically possible -- at 60% sales tax.

Why the fuck did they say 60%?

Cause of fucking math you fucking retarded Fairtax lunatic dumb asses.

Fairtax math is make believe crap you dumb asses. Pretending to tax government - pretending to tax the poor -- pretending the government can write itself a check for a trillion -- and count that as income.

This fucking shit FT is a pretend bail out every fucking year forever.

[NawwLeans]

Some dumb fuck (all fairtax fans are dumb fucks) asked whats wrong with taxing the government?

Because it can't fucking produce in come you fucking dumb shit. Its not income you shit for brains.

Fairtax is counting it as income you dumb fucking idiot. Its pretend nonsense. Its pure bullshit you fucking idiot.

They do NOT collect NEAR as much tax revenue as they need you dumb fuck -- because they pretend to get lots of money that they can't.

Its all bullshit you fucking idiots.

[NawwLeans]

Page 148 Fairtax book " the federal government itself will become a MAJOR taxpayer.""

Not only federal government has to "pay" this tax to itself -- state and city governments have to pay it too, to the federalgovernment.

What happened to Fairtax saying "Only people pay taxes"

Remember? They couldn't tax corporations cause they would just pass on the cost.

Well - where will government get the money to pay its own taxes.

And no -- this was never tried before -- because its absurd.

[dtebh]

The Federal government is a major taxpayer already under the current tax system. Thus, no change from today due to imbedded taxes - so where's problem?

[TruthsHidden]

DISCLAIMER FOR THOSE SERIOUS ABOUT DISCUSSING THE FAIRTAX: Sincere, intellectually honest debate is ALWAYS welcome, but ignore the person known as 12FlyMe/NawwLeans/Bullship Detector, etc. He continually posts a rash of lies, slanders, name-calling, and general nonsense, and has no interest in honest debate on HR25. Despite multitudes of facts and rational arguments presented in response to his rants, he continues undeterred in his campaign of misinformation. Pay no attention to him.

[NawwLeans]

The fairtax eliminates nothing you idiot. Its a farce - look up the word farce. Really -- look it up.

Thats what Fairtax is.

Sure -- if it could work like they say, But thats like saying if a Magic Pony can shit gold -- it can't shit gold you moron.

Fairtax has you lunatics believing that the government can pay a huge sales tax TO ITSELF and count that as income,

Bullshit morons.

Read the book page 148 "The federal government itself will become a MAJOR taxpayer."

[BullshipDetector]

Here is a clue -- the math on a national sales tax isn't so hard.

To replace all other taxes, what would a sales tax rate have to be?

Presidental commissions studied the math and said 57%-- or much higher if people change habits to avoid the tax.

How did Fairtax come up with 23%?

By lying, thats how.

One example -- by pretending the government can "become the biggest tax payer" --which is dumb as dog shit.

Fairtax is a magic pony that shits gold. They are lying and they know it.

[abnrgrtr]

DISCLAIMER FOR THOSE SERIOUS ABOUT DISCUSSING THE FAIRTAX: Sincere, intellectually honest debate is ALWAYS welcome, but ignore the person known as 12FlyMe/NawwLeans/Bullship Detector, etc. He continually posts a rash of lies, slanders, name-calling, and general nonsense, and has no interest in honest debate on HR25. Despite multitudes of facts and rational arguments presented in response to his rants, he continues undeterred in his campaign of misinformation. Pay no attention to him.

[NawwLeans]

Your video says "make the fair tax even better"??

The fairtax is a FARCE -- its a magic pony, its a lie.  Its BULLSHIT. You can't make a farce better -- its not a real tax plan.

Its a con game, a joke, its pure bullshit.

[NawwLeans]

REmember Fairtax preached their ass off about "Only people pay taxes".

Remember?

That's why you can't tax a corporation -- they just pass the tax on. Remember?

But FT lunatics pretend you can tax the hell out of GOVERNMENT. A huge sales tax -- on all governments -- local, state, federal, everything.

Government in fact would be the BIGGEST tax payer!

Excuse me dumb ass - wouldnt government sorta have to pass the cost on?

Fairtax is a crock of shit farce, Boortz is a liar.

[MarkDouglasC]

Fairtax would get money from drug dealers thats true.

So what? The tax rate would have to be 65% -- not the bullshit 23% Fairtax lies to you,'

Learn what the Fairtax really is -- learn the fine print, the details they hide. Google fairtax absurdities. You are being fooled by a farce -- a literal farce.

[MarkDouglasC]

Yes dumb ass -- rent is taxed under fairt tax. So is car insurance, utility bills, dental bills,

Even if your dumb ass has insurance to pay huge medical bills -- you STILL get the highest sales tax on earth on your medical bills.

What the hell don't you understand about Fairtax - there ARE no exemptions, the poorest of the poor would owe this dumb ass tax on their rent, even if the government paid their rent. ALL rent is taxed.

Learn your own stupid plan. Fairtax is a farce.

[jboritzki]

Drug dealers do pay taxes in the form of imbedded tax and sales tax. They do not pay income tax. The FairTax will cure that problem, and not just with drug dealers, but with sub contractors, hookers, kids at the toy store, 15,000,000 illegals from Mexico, etc. If the Illegals pay just $2,000 a year, or $38.46 a week in taxes, that comes to 30 trillion a year collected in tax money.

[MarkDouglasC]

yes fairtax would do that. Any sales tax would do what you say -- everyone pays it at retail.

But to replace all the other taxes --- as Fairtax claims -- it would have to be over 60% tax rate.

WHy? Because of MATH thats why.

The 23% Fairtax claims is pure bullshit and they know it. FT pretends to make the government pay ITSELF a huge sales tax, of about a trillion a year.

FT counts that as income.

Without that bullshit, FT is 65%

[batterieacid]

This video is a Half truth!

[bgoode4265]

howa could this be a bad thing? the more money we have, obviously the more we will spend. with more spending, more revenues are collected thus increasing our government's budget, wich it will spend more cautiously due to voters being in control of the flow of revenue to our goverment- which is how our founding fathers intented the government to operate...

[bgoode4265]

it also needs to be ointed out that all taxes on income, for individuals and businesses will be abolished and we will all recaive 100% of our paychecks or other income and we will only pay tax when we decide to spend at the retail level.

[bgoode4265]

not only that, but also, foreign business would be in a tiff because their country's tax code be it Flat Tax, VAT, or whatever could not compete with our abundantly enriching FairTax. what do think would happen if all the corporations who have located their HQs offshore and keep their money in OFCs, suddenly came home, with all of their money? since you have'nt done your homework, i'll spell it out for you...America will will see jobs created like never before.

[bgoode4265]

therefore making AMERICA the most attractive market in which to bring their business. that means that the TRILLIONS of dollars these companies hold in OFC's, that Offshore Financial Centers, since you didn't read the book, would come rushing back to our economy.

[bgoode4265]

under our cuurent debocle tax system, they are right to do so. under our current tax code, they are right to build HQs offshore and and use OFC to account for their finances, because it makes their business more profitable. FT reverses that. under FT, America would be the only country in a global market place that does not punish businesses, corporations, or their employees with a tax that are taken from them before they receive whatever income.

[bgoode4265]

Obiviously mr. mark douglass has not read the book, not looked at the website and not given the idea a pluasible analysis. The current tax code is detrimental to the american economy. Big business isn't opposed to FT because it hurts them, if they do not support it it is because they are entrenched in bills by lobbying firms to get them exemptions and deductions to maximise their profit.

[Terlingua973]

OK, I may not be a genius at math. But I know what I want -- the freedom to spend or save my money as I choose, not how the government chooses for me, by confiscating my income and turning me into a slave of the State. I don't know where Kmarinas86 is from; but I'm from TEXAS, where we have had a sales tax for over 40 years. And it works very well. It outperforms the federal income tax all to pieces, making TEXAS the 5th largest economy in the world. I have read the FairTax Book by Neal Boortz.

[kmarinas86]

Ironically. I am also from Texas. But I agree, TEXAS has the some of the least corrupt TAXES among the 50 states of America. It's why I enjoy a booming economy here in Houston. It's hard to me to come up with a tax less corrupt than a consumption tax. It's probably the best that will ever be devised, like it or not.

[SouthernFriedHoney]

@kmarinas86 what a dumb ass. Fairtax sounds GREAT, but its a fucking magic pony that shits gold. Sure, dumb ass, if it worked, dumb ass, it would be great, dumb ass.

But guess what? Its a fucking FARCE. The Fairtax leaders KNOW its a farce. THey know they can not tax government to get most of government revenue dumb ass.

That's why they hid that part of their plan, dumb ass. Can you think of another reason they hid that part, dumb ass?

[dtvgmedia]

@SouthernFriedHoney and your 35 other youtube aliases

What is the difference between you buying yourself a loaf of bread and your state buying one for you? Besides the fact that you pay the government to buy the loaf of bread, nothing. You consume it either way, and both you and the state currently pay the embedded cost of income capital gain, corporate income and other taxes.

Exempting government consumption will cause every one to ask the government to give them everything.

[joelibermann]

@Terlingua973

yeah well I live NH where there is no sales tax, the economy here is the best in the country.

[scragsma]

@Terlingua973 Yes, and the biggest advantages to the FairTax are its transparency, simplicity, and the fact that each person controls his/her own money. The scheme laid out in the video is complex and takes control away from the individual.

[kmarinas86]

@scragsma

Also, when I say it is "actually easier to implement", I mean that because only the banks need to collect and charge the federal tax. If all taxation were directly from banks, then no companies, other than banks, need to have any tax audits whatsoever. The only possible tax cheat would be the bank. No entrepreneur needs to be harassed by the IRS for failing to collect sales taxes, which is a waste of their productive time. The FairTax as presented does NOT solve that. My proposal can.

[scragsma]

@kmarinas86 I don't want ANY entity authorized to TAKE my money directly. Not government via my employer, and not a bank. If there's tax added when I purchase something, that's my choice to make the purchase. But tax my money just because it's THERE, sitting in a bank? NO!!!

[kmarinas86]

@scragsma

"If there's tax added when I purchase something, that's my choice to make the purchase. But tax my money just because it's THERE, sitting in a bank? NO!!!"

For just SITTING there??? C'MON, that's not what I said. ONLY when you SPEND it is it taxed. IF YOU DON'T spend it from the bank, and instead withdraw or transfer some of your accounts, then you get ALL the money which you can INVEST in stocks, pensions, or whatever - so as long as you don't SPEND it.

[kmarinas86]

@scragsma

So let's see what difference we are really talking about. With a sales tax, you see a price: $1.00, and you get charged a tax, say 23%, and you pay a total of $1.23 at the counter. With my system, you see a price $1.00, and you get charged a tax, say 23%, and you pay a total $1.00 at the counter, and the bank takes care of the $0.23. The difference with a sales tax is now the seller has to worry about that $0.23, or it could commit fraud by keeping it to itself. That is a HASSLE!

[scragsma]

@kmarinas86 It's MORE of a hassle to have two different places the sales tax could be collected, plus the seller has to remember to charge and track the extra federal tax (in addition to state/local which they'd always collect anyway) ONLY when the payment is in cash. The mechanism for banks to collect the tax would have to be set up, a huge, expensive undertaking, while most states/localities already have sales tax and modifying accounts to add and track a federal tax is relatively minor.

[kmarinas86]

@scragsma

"plus the seller has to remember to charge and track the extra federal tax (in addition to state/local which they'd always collect anyway) ONLY when the payment is in cash.""

The seller is a computer. Remember that "software" you spoke of? It's not a human being. Why do you make it sound so difficult, as if it handing cash transactions at the checkout had to involve "remembering"? There is such a thing as a "cash" button.

[kmarinas86]

@scragsma

"The mechanism for banks to collect the tax would have to be set up, a huge, expensive undertaking, while most states/localities already have sales tax and modifying accounts to add and track a federal tax is relatively minor."

Not true. All they do is add on a fee, something which they do on a REGULAR basis. They can do this with a little bit of coding. Banking systems are already digitally integrated. Your argument would have worked prior to the 1990's, I'll give you that much.

[scragsma]

@kmarinas86 It makes no sense to duplicate for banks a function that already exists, well-tested and routine, for the retailer. The retailer would still have to keep it, for state/local taxes. Banking systems may be integrated, but they are all different (hence the need to integrate), and developing the capability you propose for each system would be hugely expensive. Add the extra work for the retailer in having two different types of transactions (cash/other), and there's no benefit at all.

[kmarinas86]

@scragsma

"developing the capability you propose for each system would be hugely expensive."

I still don't believe this. You've got to convince me that it costs 100's of millions of dollars to implement a new banking fee. If you can't do that, then you are not getting through to me.

[kmarinas86]

@scragsma

"It's MORE of a hassle to have two different places the sales tax could be collected,"

You're using sales tax as the denominator of possibilities when the transactions should be the denominator of possibilities.

If it isn't cash, then the seller doesn't collect it, ONLY the bank does. If it is cash, then ONLY seller collects it. In each case, only ONE collector is valid. Banks can't tax directly from cash-only transactions. Electronic cash registers tell apart cards, cash, & checks.

[kmarinas86]

@scragsma

And lastly, it is impossible for a tax on purchases (which is indirect) and a tax on income (which is direct) to be mathematically equivalent. A tax on purchases is only levied once a purchase is made. There is nothing about a bank which couldn't collect the tax SOLELY on purchases, as opposed to taxing paycheck deposits which you, for some reason, have mistakenly understood to be my proposal. NO way in HELL should income be taxed!

[kmarinas86]

@scragsma

And lastly, it is impossible for a tax on purchases (which is indirect) and a tax on income (which is direct) to be mathematically equivalent. A tax on purchases is only levied once a purchase is made. There is nothing about a bank which couldn't collect the tax SOLELY on purchases, as opposed to taxing paycheck deposits which you, for some reason, have mistakenly understood to be my proposal. NO way in HELL should income be taxed!

[kmarinas86]

@scragsma

And lastly, it is impossible for a tax on purchases (which is indirect) and a tax on income (which is direct) to be mathematically equivalent. A tax on purchases is only levied once a purchase is made. There is nothing about a bank which couldn't collect the tax SOLELY on purchases, as opposed to taxing paycheck deposits which you, for some reason, have mistakenly understood to be my proposal. NO way should income be taxed!

[scragsma]

@kmarinas86 What an absurd statement! Direct or indirect, taxes that brings in an equal amount of money are 'mathematically equivalent'. And if you think taxing paycheck deposits is not in the picture, it's already been proposed (independent of Fair Tax) that the federal government collect a 1% tax on EVERY TRANSACTION they make - taken from the depositor's account. If banks are forced into the businees of collecting taxes on purchases, I guarantee they'll push for this 1%.

[kmarinas86]

@scragsma

"And if you think taxing paycheck deposits is not in the picture, it's already been proposed (independent of Fair Tax) that the federal government collect a 1% tax on EVERY TRANSACTION they make - taken from the depositor's account. If banks are forced into the businees of collecting taxes on purchases, I guarantee they'll push for this 1%."

It sounds like you have mostly given up on the power of the people!

[kmarinas86]

@scragsma

What I am proposing is an ad valorem tax collected by the banks. It is still an indirect tax because all ad valorem taxes are indirect taxes.

[kmarinas86]

@scragsma

What I am proposing is an ad valorem tax collected by the banks. It is still an indirect tax because all ad valorem taxes are indirect taxes.

[kmarinas86]

@scragsma

Do you really think that with the FairTax rate of 23% inclusive (30% on top of each dollar) that the sellers can faithfully collect the tax? I DON'T! Instead, I would expect to see tax evasion, especially with small businesses - and THAT's especially NOT GOOD. Can I expect banks to collect that tax faithfully? You bet. In the future, only banks should need to do tax accounting. They have all data needed to automate it. Why should I or others be forced to do tax accounting manually?

[scragsma]

@kmarinas86 Again, don't be absurd. As I said in a previous post, the vast majority of retailers already collect sales taxes and it's already in their business practices and accounting software (nobody does it manually but hobbyists). A federal sales tax would be a minor modification to the software. Banks don't do tax accounting now, and developing that function would be incredibly expensive.

[kmarinas86]

@scragsma

"As I said in a previous post, the vast majority of retailers already collect sales taxes and it's already in their business practices and accounting software (nobody does it manually but hobbyists)."

How do you remain sure that the fraud isn't going to be bad if retailers have to be the ones to collect that? Also, the money retailers spend to collect sales tax could be vastly reduced by NOT being the ones who will collect it. Cost reduction and fraud prevention is the whole point.

[scragsma]

@kmarinas86 Retailers already collect sales taxes. Not having them collect an additional federal sales tax is not going to save any money, nor will it cost more than 5 minutes of adjustment to their software - the accounting mechanisms are already established and well tested. On the other hand, developing similar mechanisms for banks is a whole new endeavor, and due to differences in kinds of financial institutions the cost of design, test, and implement those mechanisms would be very high.

[kmarinas86]

@scragsma

"A federal sales tax would be a minor modification to the software. Banks don't do tax accounting now, and developing that function would be incredibly expensive."

How so? We are simply talking about a flat rate charge, not the boondoggle that we know as the Federal Income Tax. Banks charge numerous types of fees every day. Each bank really only needs a few lines in its journals each month to recognize their "tax expense". Whichever proposal, the software modifications are minor.

[kmarinas86]

@scragsma

Also, when I say it is "actually easier to implement", I mean that because only the banks need to collect and charge the federal tax. If all taxation were directly from banks, then no companies, other than banks, need to have any tax audits whatsoever. The only possible tax cheat would be the bank. No entrepreneur needs to be harassed by the IRS for not collecting sales taxes, which is a waste of their productive time. The FairTax as presented does NOT solve that. My proposal can.

[kmarinas86]

@scragsma

Also, when I say it is "actually easier to implement", I mean that because only the banks need to collect and charge the federal tax. If all taxation were directly from banks, then no companies, other than banks, need to have any tax audits whatsoever. The only possible tax cheat would be the bank. No entrepreneur needs to be harassed by the IRS for not collecting sales taxes, which is a waste of their productive time. The FairTax as presented does NOT solve that. My proposal can.

[kmarinas86]

@scragsma

"The scheme laid out in the video is complex and takes control away from the individual."

It's descriptionally more complex due to the unfamiliarity of this idea and the familiarity of sales tax, but it's actually easier to implement (i.e. it has EVEN FEWER collection points than the FairTax). And what freedom of sales tax is Terlingua973 talking about? That a normal consumer can just decide to evade sales tax? Sales tax is nor more free than what I described in adjacent comments.

[kmarinas86]

@Terlingua973

Also, if you would like more freedom, then don't choose the sales tax, choose my plan. Why? If your idea of freedom is not paying taxes, all you have to do is cash out your money and find a retailer that does not collect tax on the cash.

All taxation can be directly from the banks, except when cash is withdrawn (the sole exception). The retailers must collect tax ONLY on cash.

If NO cash is used, "then no companies, other than banks, need to have any tax audits" - like I said.

[Diskwin]

Another of the many things FT/NST fans avoid thinking about because thinking about them shows the massive flaws of the FT/NST:

Social Security benefits calculation...

cannot be done under an FT/NST, because income is not reported. And self-reported income under an FT/NST, with no countereffect against overreporting of said income* ( to get higher benefits later), will indubitably trend high.

"Fair" Tax=FAIL

* income tax is current countereffect against overreporting

[SteamboatCamp]

Disk -- good point. That alone means Fairtax is unworkable. And thats just the START. Its absurd 17 ways to Sunday. Seldom has ANY goofy plan been SO wrong, in SO many ways.

[MarkDouglasC]

Fairtax has now admitted -- their plan is based, incredibly, on cutting the gross income of wage earners. Don't believe me? Check out fairtax absurdity blog -- its all in there, the proof, even the defense of cutting your gross income, by Fairtax defenders. You dont DESERVE to take home the money you used to pay in taxes, they say.

So you get yoru gross income cut, THEN you pay the "fair" tax. Holy Double taxation batman

[MarkDouglasC]

Rox -- why not explain to folks that under FT they will have to pay the worlds HIGHEST sales tax -- on their RENT. And gasoline. And utility bills. And even their car insurance.

Hardly ANY fairtax groupies know they will have to pay this absurdly high tax -- on their CAR insurance. And rent. And gasoline. And utility bills.

Fed gas tax is now 18cents. Under FT, it would be 1.50 or more. Thats just ONE thing. Wait till working poor people have to pay 10,000-20,000 in sales tax each year

[MarkDouglasC]

Roxax -- Fairtax, if passed, will be rescinded in 60 days. When renters see the WLST (worlds largest sales tax) on their RENT. When cancer victims see WLST on their chemo and surgery. When nursing home patients see WLST on their nursing costs. When everyone sees the WLST on gasoline and utility bills, and car insurance.

Please pass this tax! Sadly, FT leaders KNOW its bullshit and arent about to let it get to a vote, much less pass. They know its a farce.

[jarvis1211]

Actually rent doesn't get taxed...

[SteamboatCamp]

actually my ass jarvis-- rent is taxed, so is car insurance, funerals, gasoline, utilitiesevery futting thing you can futting imagine, would have the highest sales tax on the planet earth.

And here is your clue for today, on the corporate income tax. You folks say corporations don't pay taxes-- cause they pass the cost along.

Well genius, how the hello can the government pay this lunatic tax --800 billion -- without passing it along?

[Roxas42]

And companies try to make as much profit as possible, so if their costs go down, they will increase output, causing consumer prices to drop.

[Roxas42]

No, 1. The Fair Tax issues no such card, 2. Rev. 13 talks about an implanted mark or tattoo, not a card.

[alittlechild]

Anytime someone is so vehement against something - follow the money. Someone is getting way more out of the current system than they are telling you about.

Estonia has a flat tax very similar in nature to the Fair Tax proposal. Their economy is booming. Their tax rate is declining. Read the book and decide for yourself.

[MarkDouglasC]

A little you are a true moron. Flat tax isnt a sales tax you moron. Jesus you are stupid. Estonia flat tax is NOTHING -- NOTHING like a fucking high sales tax you idiot. A flat tax is an INCOME Tax you moron. Your idiot FT is the worlds HIGHEST sales tax -- on gasoline, rent, car insurance, its NUTS

[MakeMyPower]

Fairtax is a FARCE -- literally a FARCE. Its not a little wacked out -- its BULLSHIP. Its total crap.

You are being fooled. Even the Fairtax leaders know its bullship.

Ever wonder why -- if Fairtax gets rid of ALL taxes on business and corps -- corporations like GM Ford, Walmart, Exxon, and many others, aren't for it?

Not ONE corporation CFO has come out and said ANYTHING good about it.

Know why?

I do.

CAUSE ITS BULLSHIP NONSENSE.

Fairtax is a farce.

[serpentwisdom3]

So not ONE of the megacorporations who profit by the boatload off of the American people are for the fair tax??? Watch out people the slave masters don't want us to have this tax so it MUST be horrible.

Being good for business doesn't mean good for the few businesses that already run Washington. It means good for business at large ie good for competition. The current exemption-filled tax system only benefits corporate giants to the detriment of small business. Of course theyre aginst it.

[MarkDouglasC]

serpent -- no you idiot, corporations arent for the fairtax cause they know fairtax is a FARCE. ITs pure bullshit. Its nuts you idiot, its not a real plan, its literally a FARCE.

Fairtax isn't taken seriously by people who know fucking math -- and corporate CFO and CEOs know fucking math.

This lunatic Fairtax, if it worked, would untax ALL business and corps completely. So if it was real, of COURSE they would LOVE it.

But its a FARCE you idiot, a total bullshit.

[serpentwisdom3]

Whered they find you, the Discount Shill House? You used the word idiot 3 times. Maybe I can offer you some advice on how to do your job a little better.

Synonym-n. one of two or more words or expressions of the same language that have the same or nearly the same meaning in some or all senses

Idiot- half-wit, kook, loon, ass, nincompoop, moron... they are pretty easy to learn, you wanna look for a book called THESAURUS

[MarkDouglasC]

Thanks Serpent -- I should use a variety of words describing fool idiot whaatever,

Actually you may be a smart guy -- smart guys get fooled too. But think a minute -- why havent any CEOs or CFOs come out for this plan -- it would eliminate ALL their taxes, make them economic VUNDERKIDS -- according to Fairtax. Why the hell aren't they for it?

Cause they know its mickey mouse bullshit farce. Its a bunch of nonsense crap.

[Diskatopia]

Coproations are not for it because

1) they hardly pay any corporate income taxes as it is, although this amount has been going up in recent years (look it up)

2)it would destroy the US economy nearly overnight, which is not good for them and is not good for anyone

Small businesses are not for it because

1) while it destroyed the economy it would destroy their businesses as corps can afford to take years of losses and mom&pops cannot

2)it raises their (middle class) effective tax rates

[jarvis1211]

The U.S. has the second highest corporate tax rate in the world...

[MarkDouglasC]

here is a clue moron -- if the government PAYS itself you IDIOT, its CAN COUNT AS INCOME, you moron.

SO you morons would have NASA, the ARMY, the AIRFORCE, everyone, paying HUGE taxes - 800 billion to a trillion -- to ITSELF.

YOu fucking idiots. There is NO MONEY there when it pays itself you jerk moron imbecile. You morons COUNT it as money it collected. You idiots, don't you realize the goverment PAID it - so it cant be INCOME to ITSELF you morons.

[dtebh]

Let's see. Eleven perjoratives in 3 very small paragraphs containing 85 words.

Touch a nerve did we?

[MakeMyPower]

Here is a test to see if the government can pay itself.

Why don't you write your ass a check for 10,000, deposit it in your account.

Do that every day for a month.

Then see if you just created 300,000.

Thats how stupid this Fairtax is -- it depends on making the federal government pay ITSELF 800 billion a year.

Don't believe me? Read the Fairtax book, page 148. "The federal government ITSELF will become a MAJOR taxpayer."

That's just ONE absurdity -- there are others.

[Founders1776]

Here's a better idea...

watch?v=6lAFfLy05_Y

[demsarewusses]

You have to be the biggest idiot in your circle of friends. You make points that have no merit to support an asinine system to push a card that tracks spending habits vs. using cash. The people that came up with the FairTax as is lose more brains taking a piss than you have.

[mudcat622]

You make some good points. Your forum is not youtube but your congressman. Get your ideas to him/her so that they can be debated with the fair tax proposal.

[kmarinas86]

Thank you.

[R3SURRECTED]

I'm willing to listen. Post a link or two to some historical facts that back it up and I'll read. Fairtax may not be the solution, but it's the closest I've seen so far. Thanks.

[MarkDouglasC]

YOu folks are being misled by a bunch of liars. What research did these idiots do? Dont believe their crap. If they did any legit research I will wash your ass and drink the water. Did they ask nursing homes what they would do if faced with 23% tax on patients? Hell no. Did they ask pentagon what they would do if they had to pay 23% more tax on weapons? Hell no. Did they ask new home builders? Renter? Hospitals? They would crap a brick, hire lobbyist and get exemptions. Get a clue, any clue.

[lcrowe1985]

this is junk. some punk who doesn't really understand the fairtax think he has a plan that trump 20 million dollars in private research. hr25 is the most researched piece of tax legislation to ever make commitee

[R3SURRECTED]

As usual-- when something good comes along, such as the proposed Fair Tax, that threatens the thousands of "above the law" IRS related jobs, the debates begin. I think the fair tax is the best solution, but I'd be willing to move to almost any workable plan to see the huge "bully system" of the IRS removed from power. I believe as US citizens we should support our nation, but instead we have let the bull run the china shop.

But instead, confusion will prevail with endless debates.

[MarkDouglasC]

As usual your asp. I dont work for IRS or related jobs. Put this in your idiot pipe and smoke it. The Fair tax doesnt even slow down at stupid. It goes right to insane. Nursing homes, hospitals, new home builders, the military, renters, the car industry -- ARE GOING TO RAM THIS DOWN YOUR IDIOT THROAT. They wont pay this lunatic tax, they will get exemptions, moron. And so will a lot more. The real rate will be more like 50%. ANd thats just the START of the problems with this lunacy.

[R3SURRECTED]

Good. I hope it passes and you have to eat it like the rest.

Have you ever heard of a tactful response? I was willing to listen to your blat until -idiot,moron,stupid -showed up...

[Roxas42]

THERE ARE NO EXEMPTIONS, so go tell someone who wants to be deceived!

[Roxas42]

They just won't hire anyone anymore, and the current employees will spend the rest of their careers tracking down tax cheats from the days of the income tax.

[battlecreekonline]

The No-Tax Plan is the real tax plan for America. See fairtaxfraud dot com.

[pilsner70]

I agree with blue. No tax plan is perfect. I like the FairTax as it eliminates government control to take money from our earnings before we get our check. Eliminating corporate taxes, etc., will bring more business to the US. The less government, the better. This plan seems OK but would have to look at it closer.

[blue4eyes20]

I don't like that at all it just puts the government right back in our business (personally). Banks cause enough errors without adding them to the picture.

[lphillipine]

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. The fairtax would get government OUT of our business. No taxes on investments, savings, capital gains, inheritance, etc. There would be no forms to fill out and no IRS to pry into your/our personal finances as they do now. It would not matter where you earned an income. Everyone including the underground economy would pay their fair share everytime they purchased a new item or service.

[blue4eyes20]

i agree with fair tax 100% I am talking about the banks in this video.

[MrOriginality2]

GREAT COMMENT! Less government please!!!