The guy who made this engine is Ray Williams, of Chadwicks N.Y.
He's made at least 2 that I know of.
Excellent (Master) machinist just begins to describe his workmanship. I still have a T shirt w/ the oil spatter all over it from this engine...it's won't wash out...lol
Any of this CNC'd or straight hand machined? Any left-over parts? I have two Deckle Pantographs, and an SO ctuuter grider in the garage (and a Bridgeport) so......I'd like to build one.
Rotary engines generally had dual ignition. The first was the selector mag to run the engine full, half, quarter or 1/8 speed by disabling some pistons or changing the firing order to fire every 2nd or 3rd engine rotation. The second was the blip mag which turns the engine ignition on or off which you speak of.
The problem with the blip mag is if you wait too long between "blips", the engine can explode (which wasn't uncommon) from the excessive amount of fuel in the cylinders.
Actually the Le Rhone 9c (as modelled here) was throttleable from 900 RPM to 1200RPM (there is no "s" as in RPMs!) Still too fast to sink in say a 759 pound Nieuport 11 --so yes the blip switch was essential if you desired to land.
It's not a push rod, it's a push-pull rod. The push-pull rod operates both the intake and exhaust valves by having links and levers inside the crank case.
It's amazing a modern 1/3 scale Gnome engine can produce the same HP output as early full sized Gnome engines. If this project was a full blown 1:1 scale, it would probably produce 240 HP (the biggest Gnome was only 160 HP)
I saw a diagram of one of these type of engines where the intake valve was located in the center of the piston and was operated by atmospheric pressure. When the exhaust valve was closed and the piston retreated on the intake stroke, a vac was created in the cylinder and lifted the intake valve.. DId I imagine that?
The rotary engine is rather odd as it incorporates features of modern two cycle engines. The fuel mixture is let into the cylinder through holes in the piston itself, much like ports when a vacuum is present in the cylinder.
I think he means it is a 1/3 scale OF AN 80 hp LeRhone. He did not say it's an 80 hp model. It's just too small to produce 80 hp. Also, the Gnome was a different design rotary. This is a LeRhone.
Rotating engines made for better cooling. The early airplanes flew pretty slow and overheating was a huge problem. The ignition cutout was used to augment the throttle because they didn't idle well.
There was an antique motorcycle called a 'Megola' made many years ago that had a rotating radial engine inside the front wheel! No transmission, direct drive.
@jhagen20042000 for origional rotary engines you have two magnetos. one runs at full speed when hot, the other has 3 seperate speeds. you could slow down a rotary by adjusting the left mag. it worked by lenghening the number of revolutions it takes for all the cylinders to fire.
For those who wonder WHY they'd spin the engine around a stationary crankshaft: 1. No alloys to build high speed, high-horsepower engines. They had to make TORQUE at low speeds instead. 2. Low speed, high-torque engines shook the planes to pieces. 3. They tried huge flywheels, but wasted too much power. 4. Solution: Use the engine itself as the flywheel! A bonus was excellent cooling, and they were able to almost eliminate cooling fins, which were expensive and complex to machine.
@mbitsko25 and as a side note, unfortunatly, they made manuevers tricky at times due to the gyroscopic forces they generated, which is why these beutiful engines are now rarly used.
Beautiful first class piece of engineering rotary's used to be a nightmare to fly because of the gyroscopic effect they produced, Sopwith Camels had a huge accident rate during WW1.
Part of the Camel's problem was that the engine had no throttle. It was wide open all the time, and the only way to modulate the power was to switch the magnetos on and off repeatedly during landings. Pretty goofy.
awesome job, I like how it even has all the same sounds as the full size Le Rhone, just higher pitched. now you just need a mini sopwith pup to put it in!
I understand most rotary aviation engines weren't throttled at all, but relied on the pilot to cut on and off the ignition in order to regulate thrust. Was there ever a rotary that was throttled in a conventional manner?
The Siemens-Halske SH.III had a conventional throttle, but it was plagued with other problems. It weighed like 560 lbs for only 160 hp and the crankshaft rotated opposite the direction of the engine at half the speed and reduced the cooling effectiveness.
The lack of caster oil near the end of the war with the use of the votol substitute made the engine seize up after only about 8 hours of use.
He scratch built a 1/3 scale AVRO 504K for one engine and a Moraine Saulnier (sp?) parasol for the 2nd
spikeboogey123 2 years ago
@spikeboogey123 : Hey I would like to contact Ray, can you give an assist? The great Nieuport 11 would be my choice for one of these.
paullubliner 2 years ago
@spikeboogey123 : Haven't had any luck at all finding Ray via the Interent. Could some one please lend me a hand here? Thank you.
paullubliner 2 years ago
The guy who made this engine is Ray Williams, of Chadwicks N.Y.
He's made at least 2 that I know of.
Excellent (Master) machinist just begins to describe his workmanship. I still have a T shirt w/ the oil spatter all over it from this engine...it's won't wash out...lol
spikeboogey123 2 years ago
Somehow missed out! Please write again at a oh well after my name as one one word. Thanks.
paullubliner 2 years ago
Any of this CNC'd or straight hand machined? Any left-over parts? I have two Deckle Pantographs, and an SO ctuuter grider in the garage (and a Bridgeport) so......I'd like to build one.
paullubliner 2 years ago
I found it on the net and don't know anymore about it than what's been said here already.
standallas 2 years ago
Este motor estra en venta???? me parece un motor maravilloso.
manolo447 2 years ago
I salute the dude that made this engine. So awesome
TurbineDogSevenFour 2 years ago
I understand there is no throttle it's either 100 percent or 0 . Controlled thrust by the kill switch.
sandbarclam 3 years ago
Rotary engines generally had dual ignition. The first was the selector mag to run the engine full, half, quarter or 1/8 speed by disabling some pistons or changing the firing order to fire every 2nd or 3rd engine rotation. The second was the blip mag which turns the engine ignition on or off which you speak of.
The problem with the blip mag is if you wait too long between "blips", the engine can explode (which wasn't uncommon) from the excessive amount of fuel in the cylinders.
GGigabiteM 2 years ago
Ok. Now i get it. Thanks.
sandbarclam 2 years ago
Actually the Le Rhone 9c (as modelled here) was throttleable from 900 RPM to 1200RPM (there is no "s" as in RPMs!) Still too fast to sink in say a 759 pound Nieuport 11 --so yes the blip switch was essential if you desired to land.
paullubliner 2 years ago
Very nice engine, I only have one question: I can only see one pushrod? and it looks like it operates both intake and outtake valve?
Plus, I love the tiny sparkplugs!
BikerRussell 3 years ago
It's not a push rod, it's a push-pull rod. The push-pull rod operates both the intake and exhaust valves by having links and levers inside the crank case.
It's amazing a modern 1/3 scale Gnome engine can produce the same HP output as early full sized Gnome engines. If this project was a full blown 1:1 scale, it would probably produce 240 HP (the biggest Gnome was only 160 HP)
GGigabiteM 2 years ago
I saw a diagram of one of these type of engines where the intake valve was located in the center of the piston and was operated by atmospheric pressure. When the exhaust valve was closed and the piston retreated on the intake stroke, a vac was created in the cylinder and lifted the intake valve.. DId I imagine that?
sandbarclam 2 years ago
The rotary engine is rather odd as it incorporates features of modern two cycle engines. The fuel mixture is let into the cylinder through holes in the piston itself, much like ports when a vacuum is present in the cylinder.
GGigabiteM 2 years ago
I think he means it is a 1/3 scale OF AN 80 hp LeRhone. He did not say it's an 80 hp model. It's just too small to produce 80 hp. Also, the Gnome was a different design rotary. This is a LeRhone.
atheros511 2 years ago
so the ignition system has to rotate too, with some slip rings for power?
VideyoJunkei 3 years ago
Wow, that's great! Great work.
Carlovingjosh 3 years ago
i love rotary but would never fly in one. what if it shit the bed ?
irapedyourass 3 years ago
Why be loathsome?
sixmagpies 2 years ago
Rotating engines made for better cooling. The early airplanes flew pretty slow and overheating was a huge problem. The ignition cutout was used to augment the throttle because they didn't idle well.
MGB1977Red 4 years ago
There was an antique motorcycle called a 'Megola' made many years ago that had a rotating radial engine inside the front wheel! No transmission, direct drive.
JGMagoo 4 years ago
the only thing about these engines that leaves me clueless is...IGNITION ? what fires this thing ?
jhagen20042000 4 years ago
Spark plugs. As you can imagine the ignition wire rotating at speed were vunerable to breakage but generally it worked!
standallas 4 years ago
why dont they make a diesel version?
that would solve the spark plug lead problem
welshjo1721 3 years ago
That would solve the spark wire problem, but how would you deal with the tubing to the injectors.
scafool 3 years ago
@jhagen20042000 for origional rotary engines you have two magnetos. one runs at full speed when hot, the other has 3 seperate speeds. you could slow down a rotary by adjusting the left mag. it worked by lenghening the number of revolutions it takes for all the cylinders to fire.
Bamchucknorris 1 year ago
Markel Motor in Spain is reviving this old design with some improvements. They are hoping that one day they may be able to put them in compact cars.
douro20 4 years ago
For those who wonder WHY they'd spin the engine around a stationary crankshaft: 1. No alloys to build high speed, high-horsepower engines. They had to make TORQUE at low speeds instead. 2. Low speed, high-torque engines shook the planes to pieces. 3. They tried huge flywheels, but wasted too much power. 4. Solution: Use the engine itself as the flywheel! A bonus was excellent cooling, and they were able to almost eliminate cooling fins, which were expensive and complex to machine.
mbitsko25 4 years ago 5
@mbitsko25 and as a side note, unfortunatly, they made manuevers tricky at times due to the gyroscopic forces they generated, which is why these beutiful engines are now rarly used.
demonofrazgriz333 1 year ago
Beautiful first class piece of engineering rotary's used to be a nightmare to fly because of the gyroscopic effect they produced, Sopwith Camels had a huge accident rate during WW1.
maidavale3039 4 years ago
Part of the Camel's problem was that the engine had no throttle. It was wide open all the time, and the only way to modulate the power was to switch the magnetos on and off repeatedly during landings. Pretty goofy.
mbitsko25 4 years ago
A fine example of a vintage radial , sounds so sweet!
PiPsQk 4 years ago
awesome job, I like how it even has all the same sounds as the full size Le Rhone, just higher pitched. now you just need a mini sopwith pup to put it in!
cadzag72 4 years ago
nice toy you have
vipondiu 4 years ago
Beautiful engine, must be some challenges to get the inlet feed leaktight to the carb. Thanks for posting.
g0fvt 4 years ago
Is the engine supposed to spin like that?
cc10266 4 years ago
DUH!
jake497 4 years ago
have you seen the flying one in the UK
enginetorque 4 years ago
Which one the avro or the morane?
standallas 4 years ago
Very beautifully crafted engine! Sounds great!
OpeiGrafikka 4 years ago
I understand most rotary aviation engines weren't throttled at all, but relied on the pilot to cut on and off the ignition in order to regulate thrust. Was there ever a rotary that was throttled in a conventional manner?
Alisterwolf66 5 years ago
The Siemens-Halske SH.III had a conventional throttle, but it was plagued with other problems. It weighed like 560 lbs for only 160 hp and the crankshaft rotated opposite the direction of the engine at half the speed and reduced the cooling effectiveness.
The lack of caster oil near the end of the war with the use of the votol substitute made the engine seize up after only about 8 hours of use.
GGigabiteM 3 years ago
Never could figure out what makes a lerone tick. Ignition, fuel and oil delivery all seem to be issues.
joness105639 5 years ago
That is way cool! Thanks for posting the video!
id4me 5 years ago
amasing i want one 4 my air boat
boatandfireman 5 years ago
Yup. Great job!
snaellast 5 years ago
It's always cool to see hobbyists building machines just for the fun of it. Cute engine and great video!
singleproppilot 5 years ago
That is absolutly stunning! I want one for my Sopwith Camel !
s737500 5 years ago
Me too! If only I can get the minister of War & Finance to agree!!
standallas 5 years ago
LOL
jakobole 4 years ago
Cool!
spaluch1 5 years ago
Nice engine
billboxton 5 years ago