I agree, that hyper preterism, is quite unbiblical, though I would not call them heretics... I do however believe that matthew 24-25, are fulfilled- yet that doesent include the resurrection. ( spoken of in 1 Kor 15, 1 Thess 4-5).
The interpretation with the least problems seems to be that the New Testament authors believed Christ's return was imminent, within a generation according to Jesus in Mark 13:30. And this simply did not come to fruition.
Even according to Daniel 7, the second Coming was to happen IN the days of the Fourth Kingdom. Even if we say the Roman Empire WAS the fourth kingdom, by what MATH is the coming of the Son of man (or Matthew 10:23; 16:27-28) and the Kingdom in Daniel 7 STILL FUTURE? Why on earth did Tacitus and Josephus report that CHARIOTS and TROOPS of soldiers appeared over Herod's Temple? Armies just don't show up in the sky for no reason!
Preston CONTINUES to "stalk" James White, up to 4 videos now, yet Preston is AFRAID to engage in a debate with one of his own. Preston should be considered a fraud now since he can't and won't take up the challenge.
@thekingdomcomedotcom It does seem at bit odd that someone would do 4 videos, to a person who probably does no even know that the responses have been made. And also that one of his own would like a debate as you stated, and yet he avoids him / her? odd indeed.
yes tkc...why won't you? Your only defense is the 2000 years of historic Christianity sustained basic truth diatribe...and you team up with people who don't believe God the Son Christ, and thinks you are a fool for even believing what you believe, AND you haven't offered, at least from what I have seen, any support for your presupposition exegetically?
Don says he won't debate ROE because ROE advocates God's plan was only for sons of Abraham.
Again Really??? So Don wants to debate James White, a Calvinist who ALSO believes Christ died ONLY for a specific group and not for the "sins of the whole world". What is Don trying to tell us? That he is about to embrace hyperpreterist universalism???
Be careful who you team up with. Secondly, he and Brad Stone, CIP, had very much in common at my site. The link was pretty clear to me. I don't give a darn what anyone think thinks. After reading their interaction, it as clear to me before I even was told of the above. I don't need to source anything.
@SciotaMicks since you "don't need to source anything", what you are saying is without merit. Again, source one place where there is any connection between ROE and this Winters fellow or any statement that would show ROE being racist. Ken, I have been around these hyperpret leaders longer than you have even been a "preterist" -- they LIE through their teeth. I've caught them redhanded and CAN source it.
tkc....I was told that Don Hochner and ROE are disciples of Ben Winters. A close friend of mine who knows Preston personally, said Ben Winters was kicked out of Don's church. I never said ROE was kicked out of the church. ROE is Chris Camille, disciple of Ben Winters, white supremacist and preterist. I trust my sources and it is not liable...Internet laws are muddy....Especially in this area. If he says no, he is lying to you, remember, He thinks Christians are fools.
@SciotaMicks RiversOfEden responds to Don Preston's false accusations and Preston's refusal to debate one of his own all the while Preston complaining White won't debate him. Click my name to see response.
@ Joel...cuz Rivers is a mentor of Ben Winters, white supremacist and preterist..who left Don's church cuz he had a beef with a Christian black family...his one tribe Israel theory falls short....it was never about racial preterism, it is about covenant preterism....that's it....so what if the diaspora were Paul's directed audience, Paul finally got it...the salvation of Israel was necessary, to open up the kingdom forever . That's why the temple had to fall for good.
@SciotaMicks Rivers is NOT a mentor of Ben Winters and never heard of him. These are falsehoods. I asked Rivers about this specifically. Please cite one place that shows Rivers is a protege of Winters. Show one documented evidence about this "beef" with a black family. This is pure libel.
MrSermon7, you might wanna update your research. Sam Frost is no longer a "hyperpreterist". He affirms a future consummation involving the bodily resurrection of all. Hope you edit your video info.
@kingnebster Actually, Sam Frost maintains that hyperpreterists ARE his "brothers in Christ" -- Frost even does a podcast with Mike Loomis on Loomis' hyperpreterist website and Frost does nothing to distinguish that Loomis is a heretic. I'm not so certain Frost has REALLY left the movement; only that he appears to be trying to develop his own version of hyperpreterism.
@thekingdomcomedotcom blah, blah, blah. Rod, we get it already. We all understand that according to you, someone doesn't truly leave a movement until they act like an ass towards others, as you have done. We get it. Are you going to change your definition of "hyper-preterism" now?
@kingnebster Look Jason, I realize you owe a lot to Frost your mentor so there is never going to be a time you will EVER be critical of anything he says and does; but the FACT is, that Sam keeps claiming hyperpreterists are his "brothers in Christ".
@thekingdomcomedotcom i left full preterism without him! i was days away from leaving RCM altogether, and in the process shared my "criticisms" with him. You have no idea what you are talking about. You are a lonely, pompous, ignorant, "man", bent on slander and gossip. For someone who affirms a future "judgement", you sure as heck live as though there will not be one. Grow up and get a life in Christ.
@kingnebster Great job Jason, I have always thought the mentor/protege setup with you and Sam is backwards anyway. You are much stronger. However, you might want to tell my family how "lonely" I am since we have been busy with hosting various friends for almost 2 months. So, I guess it is you who really has no idea what you are talking about. I deal in documented FACTS. You deal in whining. But praise God you are out of the heresy.
Dons been waiting for a guy like gentry, big time partial preterist scholar, to step up and debate. I listened to Don's debate with louis ruggerio, james jordan and thomas ice and many more, In the Ice debate Ice didnt even use much of his 25 mins for a rebuttal period, so shaken up by Dons affirmitive and Ice is THE leading dispensational scholar. Check out my youtube videos pt 1-3 where i refute lou rugg some more, under this nic
He would debate Dr White this I know as He has commented on a video of the dividing line that was posted on youtube where Dr White takes a call about preterism. If its possible for this debate to happen it would be a HUGE sucess. MANY in the reformed camp would watch the dvd. If this is at all possible run it past James and let me know, Thank you Joel Sexton
Dr White on the other hand will debate "heretics" such as jw's and mormons. I would along
with many many reformed christians would love to see Dr. White debate Don K Preston on the topic of preterism. Don Preston has written many notable books on eschatology and has debated dozens of dispensationalist, amillennialists
Email I sent to Rich Pierce President of Dr Whites Ministry:
Hi Richard
I have a debate proposal for Dr. White. I am a reformed Christ who happens to be a full preterist. Many within the reformed community are postmillennialst and partial preterist. I am now a full preterist and many reformed christians are
also moving into a full preterist position. Now Dr Gentry whom I admire will not debate Don Preston who is the leading full preterist scholar today.
@1manifestation Preston is not a "brother" in Christ -- Preston is a heretic promoting something that is no more "Christian" than Mormonism. Once hyperpreterists start being honest that they aren't Christians, THEN maybe we'd start debating them.
My name is Don K. Preston, President of Preterist Research Institute. I would be more than willing to engage the good Dr. White in formal public debate on his charge that preterism is un-Biblical.
Will Dr. White step up to his charge and allow a knowledgeable preterist to defend the preterist community against his false charge?
@MrDonPreston What in the world is "Preterist Research Institute"??? Preston is merely one guy who calls himself "president" of a nonexistent "institute". The only reason Preston wants to debate White is that Preston could then use White's notoriety to add to his resume. Preston is a fraud who even stepped down from his own congregation because in Preston's own words: "it failed to grow and was abandoned by the young people". If Preston can't grow his heresy, why should White help him?
I agree, that hyper preterism, is quite unbiblical, though I would not call them heretics... I do however believe that matthew 24-25, are fulfilled- yet that doesent include the resurrection. ( spoken of in 1 Kor 15, 1 Thess 4-5).
Aslak1Simonsen 3 weeks ago
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The interpretation with the least problems seems to be that the New Testament authors believed Christ's return was imminent, within a generation according to Jesus in Mark 13:30. And this simply did not come to fruition.
wlemusic 2 months ago
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wlemusic 2 months ago
Even according to Daniel 7, the second Coming was to happen IN the days of the Fourth Kingdom. Even if we say the Roman Empire WAS the fourth kingdom, by what MATH is the coming of the Son of man (or Matthew 10:23; 16:27-28) and the Kingdom in Daniel 7 STILL FUTURE? Why on earth did Tacitus and Josephus report that CHARIOTS and TROOPS of soldiers appeared over Herod's Temple? Armies just don't show up in the sky for no reason!
Aristobulus789 3 months ago
Jason, school these hyprets dude!!!!
manrelic 6 months ago
Get'em Roderick!!!!
manrelic 6 months ago
Preston CONTINUES to "stalk" James White, up to 4 videos now, yet Preston is AFRAID to engage in a debate with one of his own. Preston should be considered a fraud now since he can't and won't take up the challenge.
thekingdomcomedotcom 6 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom It does seem at bit odd that someone would do 4 videos, to a person who probably does no even know that the responses have been made. And also that one of his own would like a debate as you stated, and yet he avoids him / her? odd indeed.
MrSermon7 6 months ago
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yes tkc...why won't you? Your only defense is the 2000 years of historic Christianity sustained basic truth diatribe...and you team up with people who don't believe God the Son Christ, and thinks you are a fool for even believing what you believe, AND you haven't offered, at least from what I have seen, any support for your presupposition exegetically?
SciotaMicks 7 months ago
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SciotaMicks 7 months ago
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SciotaMicks 7 months ago
Don says he won't debate ROE because ROE advocates God's plan was only for sons of Abraham.
Again Really??? So Don wants to debate James White, a Calvinist who ALSO believes Christ died ONLY for a specific group and not for the "sins of the whole world". What is Don trying to tell us? That he is about to embrace hyperpreterist universalism???
thekingdomcomedotcom 7 months ago
my question is - why won't you debate don preston
jamesfromberg 7 months ago
Be careful who you team up with. Secondly, he and Brad Stone, CIP, had very much in common at my site. The link was pretty clear to me. I don't give a darn what anyone think thinks. After reading their interaction, it as clear to me before I even was told of the above. I don't need to source anything.
SciotaMicks 7 months ago
@SciotaMicks since you "don't need to source anything", what you are saying is without merit. Again, source one place where there is any connection between ROE and this Winters fellow or any statement that would show ROE being racist. Ken, I have been around these hyperpret leaders longer than you have even been a "preterist" -- they LIE through their teeth. I've caught them redhanded and CAN source it.
thekingdomcomedotcom 7 months ago
tkc....I was told that Don Hochner and ROE are disciples of Ben Winters. A close friend of mine who knows Preston personally, said Ben Winters was kicked out of Don's church. I never said ROE was kicked out of the church. ROE is Chris Camille, disciple of Ben Winters, white supremacist and preterist. I trust my sources and it is not liable...Internet laws are muddy....Especially in this area. If he says no, he is lying to you, remember, He thinks Christians are fools.
SciotaMicks 7 months ago
@SciotaMicks RiversOfEden responds to Don Preston's false accusations and Preston's refusal to debate one of his own all the while Preston complaining White won't debate him. Click my name to see response.
TrueFullPreterism 7 months ago
"JoelthePreterist" appears to actually be Joel the HYPERPRETERIST. Just more falsity by the hyperpreterists.
thekingdomcomedotcom 7 months ago
@ Joel...cuz Rivers is a mentor of Ben Winters, white supremacist and preterist..who left Don's church cuz he had a beef with a Christian black family...his one tribe Israel theory falls short....it was never about racial preterism, it is about covenant preterism....that's it....so what if the diaspora were Paul's directed audience, Paul finally got it...the salvation of Israel was necessary, to open up the kingdom forever . That's why the temple had to fall for good.
SciotaMicks 7 months ago
@SciotaMicks Rivers is NOT a mentor of Ben Winters and never heard of him. These are falsehoods. I asked Rivers about this specifically. Please cite one place that shows Rivers is a protege of Winters. Show one documented evidence about this "beef" with a black family. This is pure libel.
thekingdomcomedotcom 7 months ago
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SciotaMicks 7 months ago
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SciotaMicks 7 months ago
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SciotaMicks 7 months ago
MrSermon7, you might wanna update your research. Sam Frost is no longer a "hyperpreterist". He affirms a future consummation involving the bodily resurrection of all. Hope you edit your video info.
kingnebster 7 months ago
@kingnebster Actually, Sam Frost maintains that hyperpreterists ARE his "brothers in Christ" -- Frost even does a podcast with Mike Loomis on Loomis' hyperpreterist website and Frost does nothing to distinguish that Loomis is a heretic. I'm not so certain Frost has REALLY left the movement; only that he appears to be trying to develop his own version of hyperpreterism.
thekingdomcomedotcom 7 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom blah, blah, blah. Rod, we get it already. We all understand that according to you, someone doesn't truly leave a movement until they act like an ass towards others, as you have done. We get it. Are you going to change your definition of "hyper-preterism" now?
kingnebster 7 months ago
@kingnebster Look Jason, I realize you owe a lot to Frost your mentor so there is never going to be a time you will EVER be critical of anything he says and does; but the FACT is, that Sam keeps claiming hyperpreterists are his "brothers in Christ".
thekingdomcomedotcom 7 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom i left full preterism without him! i was days away from leaving RCM altogether, and in the process shared my "criticisms" with him. You have no idea what you are talking about. You are a lonely, pompous, ignorant, "man", bent on slander and gossip. For someone who affirms a future "judgement", you sure as heck live as though there will not be one. Grow up and get a life in Christ.
kingnebster 7 months ago
@kingnebster Great job Jason, I have always thought the mentor/protege setup with you and Sam is backwards anyway. You are much stronger. However, you might want to tell my family how "lonely" I am since we have been busy with hosting various friends for almost 2 months. So, I guess it is you who really has no idea what you are talking about. I deal in documented FACTS. You deal in whining. But praise God you are out of the heresy.
thekingdomcomedotcom 7 months ago
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@thekingdomcomedotcom Rod, what church do you attend?
kingnebster 7 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom Rod, what church do you attend?
kingnebster 7 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom since you're omniscient, what then is my agenda, oh great one?
kingnebster 7 months ago
Dons been waiting for a guy like gentry, big time partial preterist scholar, to step up and debate. I listened to Don's debate with louis ruggerio, james jordan and thomas ice and many more, In the Ice debate Ice didnt even use much of his 25 mins for a rebuttal period, so shaken up by Dons affirmitive and Ice is THE leading dispensational scholar. Check out my youtube videos pt 1-3 where i refute lou rugg some more, under this nic
JoelThePreterist 7 months ago
He would debate Dr White this I know as He has commented on a video of the dividing line that was posted on youtube where Dr White takes a call about preterism. If its possible for this debate to happen it would be a HUGE sucess. MANY in the reformed camp would watch the dvd. If this is at all possible run it past James and let me know, Thank you Joel Sexton
JoelThePreterist 7 months ago
Dr White on the other hand will debate "heretics" such as jw's and mormons. I would along
with many many reformed christians would love to see Dr. White debate Don K Preston on the topic of preterism. Don Preston has written many notable books on eschatology and has debated dozens of dispensationalist, amillennialists
postmillennialist theologians.
JoelThePreterist 7 months ago
Email I sent to Rich Pierce President of Dr Whites Ministry:
Hi Richard
I have a debate proposal for Dr. White. I am a reformed Christ who happens to be a full preterist. Many within the reformed community are postmillennialst and partial preterist. I am now a full preterist and many reformed christians are
also moving into a full preterist position. Now Dr Gentry whom I admire will not debate Don Preston who is the leading full preterist scholar today.
JoelThePreterist 7 months ago
@JoelThePreterist All I want to know is why Don Preston won't debate Riversofeden?
wallsofjericho4 7 months ago
Like most futurist when asked to step up to the plate they get the Ghost.
preterist1 7 months ago
@preterist1 Oh yea, we have the Ghost all the time God willing. I am afraid some don't.
MrSermon7 7 months ago
Dr. White step up to the plate Brother Don is waiting.
1manifestation 7 months ago
@1manifestation Why don't you try to get in contact with him directly, other than with myself?
Here is his channel - user/DrOakley1689
I myself would mind hearing a debate / dialogue on this matter. - Blessings.
MrSermon7 7 months ago
@1manifestation Preston is not a "brother" in Christ -- Preston is a heretic promoting something that is no more "Christian" than Mormonism. Once hyperpreterists start being honest that they aren't Christians, THEN maybe we'd start debating them.
thekingdomcomedotcom 7 months ago
Boy are we in good company they said Jesus was teaching Heresy also.
1manifestation 7 months ago
@1manifestation .....*wouldnt mind*
MrSermon7 7 months ago
White here is claiming that Hyper-preterism is heresy, not preterism.
MrSermon7 7 months ago
My name is Don K. Preston, President of Preterist Research Institute. I would be more than willing to engage the good Dr. White in formal public debate on his charge that preterism is un-Biblical.
Will Dr. White step up to his charge and allow a knowledgeable preterist to defend the preterist community against his false charge?
I will eagerly await to hear from Dr. White.
Don K. Preston
MrDonPreston 7 months ago
@MrDonPreston What in the world is "Preterist Research Institute"??? Preston is merely one guy who calls himself "president" of a nonexistent "institute". The only reason Preston wants to debate White is that Preston could then use White's notoriety to add to his resume. Preston is a fraud who even stepped down from his own congregation because in Preston's own words: "it failed to grow and was abandoned by the young people". If Preston can't grow his heresy, why should White help him?
thekingdomcomedotcom 7 months ago