Amazing! Absolutely beautiful! Has nothing to do with my journey as for that I totally love my (christian) mother. But to be able to express in words such powerful feelings I commend you. For logic brings truth, even in feelings.
Hmmm.... The way you have the eyes set and in a black / blue saturation reminds me of the cover to one of Dr. Robert Hare's books. I believe his was white and red, though.
@VicariousExtrospect Nope, not aware of Dr. Robert Hare, or his books. The black/blue tint was a contrast to the black/brown of the accompanying video.
@PsychoticSnake 'Did you ever have contact with Mr. Elliot after he taught you?'
—No — and it would've been kind of weird if I had. He and I had a very bare-bones relationship — I did homework, he graded it, and that was really as far as it went.
I think my childhood transition to atheism partly came about because of personal childhood trauma. I wonder if I had been a more fortunate child who came from a very well adjusted and nurturing home and never had any reason to doubt the existence of god because prayers were answered (by that I mean that childhood expectations were met), if I would have still been a believer today. When expectations are met, belief would be reinforced, in my case, they were not met.
I lost belief in god long before I learned about evolution in school, but once I did learn about it, everything made sense to me. Bad things don't happen to kids because it's god's plan, they just happen sometimes. And I always had problems with the biblical creation story, even at 8 years old. I love evolution,it explains everything. My life made sense ever since.
I'm sort of in the midst of a transition to atheism. While I haven't lost faith in a deity altogether (I still believe the cosmological argument holds SOME ground, even if it is merely that we don't have a full understanding of time) I have lost faith in my 'theity' or God.
I'm going through a sort of grief period though. While I'm aware 'God' was my own perception and was essentially an imaginary friend, he was still the best friend I ever had.
Almost the same as my story, except my spark was an article my world history teacher read to our class describing scientific explanations for the 10 plagues. That was 6 years ago, what a long road its been. If only he knew the profound influence he had on my life.
Sunk Cost Fallacy, also known as Concorde fallacy.
Try to leave an organized scam that is only based on getting you and your kids involved in giving a lot of money. otherwise you just waste mre money to a scammer.
@andyfromsheldon Thanks. My family seemed to have an ambivalence about creation. They embraced evolution — I had posters/charts on my bedroom wall as a very young child. But then there'd be arguments that 'Darwin recanted'. It was very mixed — possibly representing differences between my parents. My relationships in the family have transformed beyond recognition since childhood, mellowing from an inflexible authoritarianism to a deep mutual respect and equality I would've thought impossible.
It's surprising to me how different my transision was from almost every story I have heard from other atheists. What's even more surprising is how early I figured it out. I always thought I was stupid for not figuring it out sooner but I can now see that wasn't the case. Although I have to admit my transision had more to do with emotional distress than actual inteligence since I was only seven at the time.
@f00tstep My transition to atheism happened very early too, I had serious doubts at 8, and I no longer believed at 10. My family was very religious, but my childhood was full of problems, including a severely depressed mother, abandonment, and other issues. I used to pray and nothing ever happened. After a while I knew that prayers were not answered, at least not by any god. I've never had to go through the adult transition phase that so many people find so difficult.
Thank you so much for this video. I have very recently realised I am an atheist. I have brain damage and severely disabled, and have been lied to by Christians, and it's been hard to think for myself. Now I realise I am smart enough to decide what is evidence for me and I have learned that the bible is not enough. I am somewhat lonely and isolated but perhaps this new perspective is a great adventure, and there is much to be discovered. With much respect and gratitude
Both of your vids on atheism as congruence are excellent! I find I struggle with belief in others. I find it very hard to respect people who hold such beliefs. I desperately want to be able shake this feeling and accept the beleif of others and not allow it to colour my perspective.
Do you have any insights or advice you could share on this? Cheers.
@TheCelticChimp My own take on this is that it's about embracing ambiguity. I don't know where each new christian I meet is coming from. They could be a smug piece of shit who's dehumanised everyone with a different outlook, or someone struggling to contain huge dissonances, perhaps already questioning their faith — or anywhere between. My default is to trust that someone is good-hearted and capable of/interested in reason — when they show me they're not, I adjust my opinion of them accordingly.
Certianly a sensible approach. I think part of my problem is that I never believed. I remember being brought to church for things like communion or confirmation and I would look at the adults around me thinking "come on, you don't really beleive this, do you?". The whole thing seems so absurd to me that it is difficult to take another adult seriously who believes this stuff. I understand that it is not that simple but that instinct is difficult to let go of...
... There are many people, exceptionally rational people, who did once believe. I recognise that fact but I suppose not having experienced belief myself I can't empathise with that aspect of it. Giving people the benefit of the doubt as you suggest is probably the best way to go about it. Strange as it may seem, a part of me wishes I had believed once. I think it would make it easier to accept the religious views of others now. Thanks for the advice/perspective.
@TheCelticChimp@TheCelticChimp Though you were never religious, are there any 'silly' beliefs you once held that you no longer hold? Perhaps there's potential for empathy there? I guess yes, I'm different in that respect — I know what it feels like to have religion done to me, as it was to them — injected deeply into them in childhood. In evolutionary terms it makes sense that children quickly absorb their parents' outlook — this would've aided survival in harsh environments.
I am certain there must have been silly beliefs that I held but in truth I don't remember them. I presume I believed in Santa for instances but don't have any memory of it. I can complete understand how people take on the beliefs of their community intellectually, I just don't get the religous thing in the visceral sense.
An excellect suggestion though. I am sure there are many silly notions I held on to, I just need to remind myself. Does free will count? :)
@TheCelticChimp Many Christians know they don't have all the answers but do Church to feel better and make sense of life, but they respect my beliefs and don't initiate arguments. Deep down they know my arguments are probably better, but they are afraid. I can respect them. However, I DON'T respect Christians who want to argue when it is clear they haven't really thought about any of the hard questions, and refuse to educate themselves when I show them flaws in their reasoning.
@stevolim One could even be an atheist buddhist as the two positions are not mutually exclusive of each other. It certainly couldn't hurt to lead a 'buddhist lifestyle' as it's actually a pretty healthy way to live both physically and emotionally. There are many atheists who do.
I envy people who lost their faith before age 16 or simply never had any at all (either because they had "natural" critical thinking skills or because they were raised in or exposed to an environment that instilled such skills in them early on). I became non-theist around age 18 (20 now) and still feel like I should have known better when I was younger. I can only imagnie how people in their 40's, 50's, and 60's and beyond must feel. To those much oldeer individuals, have my pity and my respect.
I never grew up too religious - but I became an atheist around the age of 10.
I was really an unadvanced kid (my consciousness was slow to advance, but it was just a late bloomer) back then. I really don't know what I thought - the basics I can gather was that I just saw no God talking to me - he didnt appear in our world. And then I entered a very brief stage of denial - rationalizing what he did. But through a series of events Ive learned thats all they are - and thats why Im an atheist today
Your story reminds me of myself. I wen't through almost an identical proces when i was around 12, except my country isn't beating down atheism, so after part 4 it was really easy. I'm glad to see other people have had the same experience. All you need is to get a trigger and be curious
I think I am somewhere around stage 3. For me, it all started in science class. I walked in, excited to be learn about something because science was and still is my favorite class. but i found out we were learning about evolution. Thats when my brain broke out of what i had been sticking with all my life. By the end of the couple weeks we learned about it, my teacher asked us what we think about evolution. He didn't care what our answer was, whether yes, no, or not sure. he just wanted to know
Part two: So before thoose few weeks I would have answers, evolution stinks christianity is the right way to go. but I didn't, I answered with a I don't know. At this point (a few years or so after wards) i still dont know what to think. sometimes i fear becoming athist but other times it sucks to be christian. well i just wanted to say that
@gradsssara I understand the fear of letting go of a religious background. There is that "what if my religion is right?" question in the back of your mind. I helped myself get over that by thinking what a person brought up in greek times would think of letting go of Zeus, An indian letting go of Shiva etc. We do not fear these at all, so logically we should not fear letting go of our gods any more. I know, easier said than done, but it helped me.
Can I just ask any atheist's reading this what made them come to the conclusion of Atheism over Agnosticism? - I was brought up pretty strict catholic, but my journey led me to Agnostic-Theism - in that I don't think it's possible for humans to definitively know one way or another, or the nature of "god" - but I choose to believe anyway - and that is not a cop-out, as to my mind advances in Quantum Physics especially that of String-Theory speaks to something that I feel could constitute "god".
@LazarusCato 'Can I just ask any atheist's reading this what made them come to the conclusion of Atheism over Agnosticism?'
—I didn't choose atheism over agnosticism — they refer to two different dimensions so are not mutually exclusive or a matter of preference over the other. My atheism means I don't believe in any gods. My agnosticism reflects god concepts I consider to be unknowable — though we can also rule out many gods because their definitions set up unworkable contradictions.
@TheraminTrees 'rule out many gods because their definitions set up unworkable contradictions'. Are you so sure about this? Aren't unworkable contradictions here to be solved or left on its own or actually something that is unworkable because of our own restrictions. Sometimes things are unworkable, because WE cannot work with them, society, science, organisms, objects cannot and a nanosecond or millions of years later somebody (we?) just knows that they have been workable all along.
Thanks for this. Reassuring that there are some idiosyncrasies in the whole thing. I like your videos and thoughts. They really show how you have grown and are growing throughout life. My friend E. would say: You have got a rich inner life. I am using her words here for you. I am sure that you are aware that your stuff has reached some guru like status. But being perceived as a guru (which, by the way, I don't) is perhaps not your problem.
This is an interesting video (very truthful and enlightening). Asking about any atheist's reading. I am an atheist who has brought up without any religious indoctrination, no discussion about god other than as part of a historical and cultural process (family has some historical connections) but in a very strict Catholic country. I was free enough to explore the images/rituals/narratives of Catholicism as an observer and occasional participant in the rituals (of the others)
2nd part, seems can't live with just one confined reply running out of words. I wanted to say, I never was troubled about believing or not. It seemed natural to me not to believe in a god or gods, but loving some narratives, being sceptical of some and seeing religion as part of the big power games (military, religion, secular powers, etc). If people asked/ask me, what I believe in, I can now TRUTHFULLY say, in LIFE.
@LazarusCato and no 3, how significant LOL (triptych). Theramin Trees said this:'and I believe the definitions put forward for some gods makes them unknowable — agnostic(Quote end)' Unknowable gods are not an essential question to me other than they can be great and horrible narratives as the gods who have penetrated lives/societies. So many things are unknowable (definitions or not). I do not know if there are any gods, but I know there are many narratives and people are great story-tellers.
@LazarusCato I am breaking the 3 and move to 4. I know that culturally and philosophically it is an essential narrative. I do not believe in aliens other than there is a possibility that other life forms DO exist. To be honest, there are aliens, because there is simple life on other planets and our DNA comes from space. So we are aliens. Perhaps I should be an agnostic. I have to think about this. FOR THE TIME BEING I AM AN ATHEIST.
@LazarusCato 5) I am a storyteller too. How can one be sure about an invention like god being more than just a figment of our minds, a soothing lullaby sometimes and a revengeful entity another one? I am polarising here. We tend to believe our own narratives. We can distort (sometimes unknowingly) our memories, our history, etc. We are confined to our biology/embodiment. So we have invented gods and are now - because of this and how we deal or not with history looped into these narratives.
@LazarusCato ad response 2 'I never was troubled about believing or not.' Not true. I was troubled as a young person, as i saw all the others believing so strongly and all this drama (rituals). Even as I child i was inquisitive and always wanted to know more (also about gods). I now believe, we all have made this too important. Ethics don't need religions or god(s), and I believe it is enough treating ourselves and the world well and not losing our curiosity and love for life. And COMMUNICATE!
@artbielz God & Religion 2 me are totally separate, I can 100% understand & emphatically agree with being anti-religion (the dogma, archaic rituals, power, etc) - but I don't understand (personally) how/why some ppl go that extra step when freeing themselves of religion 2making a definitive statement like "god doesn't exist" when there is no evidence 2 prove or disprove this theory. I 100% agree with being anti-creationist & pro-evolution but god & evo. aren't mutually exclusive concepts either.
@LazarusCato I quite like the rituals in religion. All cultures have their rituals. Currently mobile phones, I tunes and I pod, etc.. Of course, you cannot make a definite statement. It sounds a bit metaphysical, when I say, I JUST KNOW (sense) that god does not exist. It is a bit like maths. You postulate an axiom (here god) and then you develop a (complex) system to prove this axiom. The axiom could be random choice. As an 'evolutionist' I can't believe in god(s). It would be hypocritical.
"Can I just ask any atheist's reading this what made them come to the conclusion of Atheism over Agnosticism?"~
For me personally it was the realization that lies cover untruths.. not unknowns.
I am agnostic about a great many things in science but like you I struggled with what the difference might be between a god that exists and created everything but does not answer prayers.. does not reward or punish but simply is.. and what ever natural force might have created hydrogen.
As a-theism is technically the belief that -theism- isnt true.. It does not actually delegate that there is no god at all.. just that the Theist vision of god, holds no ground.
Additionally, quantum physics is the quantitative physics of energy.. From what I can tell, you are actually attracted to how your understanding of quantum -theory- changes your experience and quality of physics- So what you really like is Qualitative Physics. ;)
@Kelidiscope Please... you are displaying a deep ignorance of facts and a quite childish and desperate attempt to place something your clearly don't understand into terms which suit you. If you're going to bring your point to the table, the least you can do is make sure it's correct. Atheism=without god. Your definition is irrelevant.
In my humble opinion it is you that is displaying the ignorance-
Atheism= Without God= And by all rights one can still be an Agnostic Atheist, and by the accounts, most people are.
. Without God, but unsure either way.
I was myself for a time.
There is a current misunderstanding about the word "Atheist" because of the baggage associated with it- but by the very definitions you are stating, one can still remain Agnostic and be an Atheist.
@Kelidiscope You mean the baggage, thrust upon it by millennia of prejudice, hatred and superstition by ignorant, arrogant and in many cases downright evil priests/rabbi's and mullahs. Agnosticism to use Clarence Darrow's definition is to "not be sure". Atheism simply means that gods to not figure in any part of life and are not necessary for any function. They are redundant and therefore we are without them. It is not a belief because by definition it is the opposite to belief.
@Kelidiscope Didn't your kindergarten teach you that you can't force a square peg into a round hole? Atheism is the absence of belief. If you can't understand that basic concept then it is pointless speaking with you.
@LazarusCato Besides, I can't see why I would choose to adopt an agnostic standpoint on this issue, but not the other areas of intellectual decision that I have encountered in my life (such as whether or not I consider skin pigmentation an indicator of natural superiority). I may never be certain, but one never is; we reach decisions based upon the 'Search for Meaning'.
@woddle1996 Agnosticism is adopted when you admit that, as humans, we know fuck all about the universe and beyond. We barely have information beyond our solar system. The god concept is just as plausible as it isn't plausible. We certainly have no evidence for one, but it's the only predominant concept we've managed to come up with when explaining existence—though it in itself has its many flaws.
@saltesc I'm afraid I disagree. We don't exactly know fuck all about the universe, we have learned quite a lot of information - although I will admit that because of it's scale we know the details of very little of it's contents. However, in no way is the god concept as plausible as implausible, despite the scant evidence in His favour, and that is a sensible reason not to believe.
@saltesc 'We certainly have no evidence for one, but it's the only predominant concept we've managed to come up with when explaining existence'
—While the god[s] concept is certainly popular, I can't see how the words 'only' or 'predominant' apply. 'Only' seems to exclude the concept of natural causes. 'Predominant' — is that meaning 'strongest' or 'most popular'? I'd argue against strongest; I'd concede most popular, though question it's value. Can you clarify what you mean?
Are you familiar with Adlerian Psychotherapy? Your transition from a faith based life to finding meaning in truth via scientific inquiries is a prime example of compensation. Your videos are well done. I enjoy them thoroughly, and I'm a devout Catholic.
@IrishNickO 'Are you familiar with Adlerian Psychotherapy? Your transition from a faith based life to finding meaning in truth via scientific inquiries is a prime example of compensation.'
—I'm aware of the Adlerian concepts of compensation, resignation, etc., yes. I'd be cautious of using these terms in unqualified ways — compensation is used in various contexts which don't apply here. But I'd agree that an unnecessary disadvantage was imposed on me, and that I overcame that disadvantage.
@TheraminTrees I'm actually very qualified to use these terms as a trained Counselor, however, you are right, I'm not your Counselor so I can't know for sure. My comment regarding compensation was not a reproach towards you, just a psychological observation I couldn't help but notice.
@IrishNickO 'I'm actually very qualified to use these terms as a trained Counselor, however, you are right, I'm not your Counselor so I can't know for sure. '
—No, I didn't mean *you* were unqualified. When I spoke about using the term in an unqualified way, I meant using it without making specific qualifications about context. And I didn't take it as a reproach.
Two points struck me forcibly: one when you said, "I wanted to wipe him off the face of the earth." That must be the reaction to questioning by those whose belief system is their whole life; a reaction which accounts for most of the persecution and murder in the world.
I've forgotten the 2nd point. I am 75 and my short-term memory is terrible. But I know that it made me laugh rather than gasp.
@usefulmusic Yes — my own experience of that hostility informs my experiences of the hostility that comes my way, and substantially mitigates my emotional response. For me, when I was back there wanting my questioning teacher not to exist, it was really of course the difficult question I didn't want to exist. But it all gets jumbled up in the unaware moment, doesn't it.
This was like listening to my own story. I was raised a Jehovah's Witness and at a very very early age started thinking that some things didn't make sense, but put it down to "I just need to read the Bible properly". In high school I had the most amazing teacher who taught Comparitive Civilizations and Mythology. The story is too long to tell here, but it's very near the same path. I could say I ower my free life to that man
I noticed the handwriting differs on your shot of the paper. Is this actually a scan of your original paper that you hold on to or just a prop you made? Just curious, as it would be cool if you kept it to highlight the amazing transition this one sentence question made in your life.
@crazytown232001 Yes, I do have the original — I didn't use it here because it's currently packed away in storage. It was quite a moment coming across that essay a few years ago — over the years, I'd forgotten how fervent I was. Brought back more accurate — if uncomfortable — memories of my mindset.
Although I doubt Mr Elliot expected so much from his question, have you ever thought about searching him out and thanking him? Maybe someone else that watches your videos knows him. Maybe if you let us know which school it was, someone that goes there or knows of him can email him this video. Anyhow, thanks for your excellent videos.
@crazytown232001 Thanks. I've actually been approached by people in the professional business of tracking folks down, in response to this video. For me, my gratitude to Mr E feels resolved in this video — similar to the way that sometimes just writing a letter, rather than sending it, is all that's needed.
I am a child, technically. But I consider myself a strong willed and intelligent person, however. I cannot comprehend the possibility of nothingness after death, no rebirth, no heaven or anything along those lines. However the logical part of me says that people who see a bright light when they die, are just experiencing chemical reactions as the brain dies. What are your thoughts? Did you ever ponder such things, can you tell me the conclusions you came too? Much love. Josh.
@Artemis194 I realize this question was not directed at me, but I would like to offer an answer. Try to comprehend before you were born. Does it bother you that you didn't exist then? Thinking too much about something can make it seem far more complicated than it really is. There centuries and millenia before you were born in which you did not exist, and that 'nothingness' never bothered you in the least. It would be the same after death
@Artemis194 It won't be like anything, that's the point. What's it like to pass out or fall asleep? Nothing. You're not aware of anything until you wake up (assuming you didn't dream of course). My point is, just because you can't comprehend it shouldn't make it scary. It will happen, and when it does, you won't have to think about it, because you won't be there. It won't be you floating around in nothing--you will be gone. The nothingness before and after birth is the same thing: non-existance
@Nirah The most important and, of course, life-changing event in our life is our death. All our friends and relatives and, if we were famous, potentially millions of people will read or hear about our death – and yet we don't. Ironic, innit?
@TheraminTrees This is a very heartfelt, objective, and insightful window onto Christian apostasy. And might I say, with excellent graphic presentation.
you sound so much like a robot. i don't practice my religion much anymore, but not exactly ready to be atheist. the problem with god is that without knowledge from others god wouldn't exist. everyone is born with a clean slate
@Radman916 he (god) also commited genocide. I dont care how bad a race of people maybe you cant just wipe them out cause your an angry god. I will not worship a god who thinks genocide is the answer to all his problems =)
@Radman916 Dear friend, only Jesus can set you free from fear and bondage and give you peace that passes all understanding. I speak from experience. I do not take any medication and I sleep like a baby.I was not always like that.
If you repent of your sins Jesus forgives you and gives you peace for your soul. only Jesus can do that, no drugs or any substances that cause addictions. Sin causes anxiety, fear, stress and commit suicide - the devil is a bad partner.
@Radman916 Dear friend, we all know right from wrong but some take pleasure in wickedness. The wages of sin is death, not just mortal death but eternal damnation and punishment in hell.
God, WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, 10but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:6-11.
Payday is coming - we must prepare. we will reap what we have sown. That is the truth.
@finalcall07 What I don't like is that God has already turned the cards against me. If he is omniscient, he knows where I'm headed, and that is hell. Why? It is because I don't believe in Jesus. Well, I used to. I was a devout Christian, but then once I was challenged, I investigated. And the more you investigate, the more you will see you've been lied to. You cannot use scripture to convince people to believe because they don't believe in the scripture.
@Radman916 Dear friend, God made you perfect, even though you don't know Him, He also wrote His laws in your heart - you have a perfect conscience, telling you right from wrong. None of us have any excuse for doing wrong, hurting and harming other people. Your conscience immediately tells you when you sin. That is your first proof, you are made in the image of God, you are not an animal that has no conscience.
Your conscience is the voice of God in you. Have you ever listened? We must obey!
@Radman916 That is now what you call fool's logic - blame God.
Dear friend, God made everything good but man is evil in his heart and his thoughts are evil. That is why God will put man in eternal punishment for his crimes. Hell is prepared for those who disobey God. God knows to protect those who fear and obey Him, but He punishes those who disobey so that they can repent, turn away from sin. Friend it is because God loves us that we are not all just wiped out.from the face of the earth.
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Atheism is also religion - knowing Jesus is reality. Religious people never knew Jesus. Only Jesus can change a person from a sinner to a saint because it takes a change of heart, not a change of mind.
Jesus gives you a new heart, if you truly repent of sin and accept Him as Lord. Jesus is not an ideology - fall on your knees and cry out to Him and He will answer.
@finalcall07 Nope, atheism isn't a religion — there is no system of faith to it whatsoever. And nope, I and a multitude of others did all the repenting, accepting and calling out to him and to the christian god, and nothing happened, so your assurance that he will answer is also false. Of course many just don't want to deal with that fact — making up fantasy rationalisations like 'you didn't have enough faith', etc., rather than honouring the problematic truth.
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@TheraminTrees If you repented you would not be a sinner any more dear friend - a person who has stopped smoking is not a smoker any more - Jesus does not go along with people who are not serious.
@finalcall07 So you're basically saying I lied. Great — that saves such a lot of time. Clearly with such mistrust, an adult conversation is out of the question.
@AtheistTower You must be a follower of the "esteemed" Frank Turek. I enjoyed watching his ego get a beating in his debate with Hitchens. Gave me a good laugh
@AtheistTower ex atheist are mostly people that could not deal with reality and there own pending mortality, so they spend there time rationalizing there pass beliefs/religion in hopes that they can find some sort of loophole, or they might turn to the God of the gaps type deal, being an atheist is no fun at all personally for me, it's not for the faint of heart, i really wanted there to be a loving God, i think everyone wishes for something more I.E an afterlife or something other
Why do you bring up religion? nobody cares nor defends religion collectively yet you seem to collectively attack and insistently make straw man arguments while you're at it. Plato lived in a time of ignorance, however, the more we realise about the universe, the more it becomes apparent that there was fundamental design during every step of the way. Are you a scientist? If not then why are you bothering to argue with one.
What an interesting perspective you have. I have personally come accross pleanty of people who defend religion collectively. I'm afraid that you know nothing about Plato, when it comes to these matters Socrates instructed him into being much much wiser than you or many others. Where your right-brained artistic perspective sees "fundi design" my left brain sees fundamental truth. I'm affraid 1 can aquire many a degree while holding stedfast to an FSM believe. why do you bother?
Indeed but those people are idiots; and there are some who do believe all religions lead to heaven which makes no sense even from a religious point of view. You stick to naturalistic views though, I could stare at a computer all day and say well it's made up of this and that and that, but it takes a different kind of perspective to say, well it's been designed by somebody clearly - through it's order and complexity. Why can't you see that with creation too?
but it doesn't matter, to you it would have been designed by God, just like cancer and pain and such other things.
snowflakes are artful, yet they had no designer, they opporate and form through natural law, just like everything else. if you ask where these laws come from I might tell you that they come from the same place you think God comes from.
snowflakes will melt and cease to exist. Death anxiety is instinct, movie: Flight from death: ...
You think pain is bad?? You're actually starting to sound like a creationist who labels it as 'bad'; pain is absolutely fundamental. Ultimately cancer and disease have a population check function; but it doesn't mean we should conquer each; we're commanded to actually. Snowflakes are a weak analogy, I'm talking about the very laws of the universe, the workings of quantum physics, the biochemistry of the cell. So where do these laws come from then?
No, and I've never said cancer was bad either. It's all based on your artistic p.o.v.
where does the nature of our Universe come from? I thought I already gave an answer in my previous comment. To be less vague perhaps it is simply fundamental... like you think this God concept is. As Hitchens has artfully put it: God adds no explainatory value. Is there any way to prove you wrong?
Well according to M-theory and recent discoveries, the nature of our universe itself - like the big bang - derives from a single unifying point. Which very much points to a designer. A designer puts unifying rules into anything - it's the element of underlying order within observable chaos. The problem with you atheists is that you can't actually look at the big picture, you lack the ability to think in an absolute sense, and quite frankly it's sad.
I'm actually Agnostic. and by experience, I think there is God. So far, It hasn't demonstrated if it created the current universe or not. The main issue is that God adds no explainatory value to existance. For all you know this "unifying point" is fundamental. The problem with many theists is that they quickly "jump" into the abyss of their artistic conclusions. They seem to lack an ability to think in a careful step by step basis. No shame, I'm sure sometimes it's useful.
if i open it too much, I might spill all the information. Most in the right-hand path are completely close-minded to the left-hand path. if you keep an open mind, you might let the enemy in, who will stumble you into an inescapeable lie. fun things to think about. However, Agnosticism is truth, there is no way around this self-evident condition: I think, therefore I am: agnostic.
Well yeah, you need to be skeptical simultaneously really, willing to listen to anyone but at the same time putting everything you're told to the test.
@AtheistTower Actually, disease is one major reason that the poulation growth has been so bad, because people over-compensate. When you know you may lose several of your childern to inane but serious causes - disease being one of them - you get more children. So when you do *not* lose them, then you have "too many". Also those that did lose children didn't stop trying, so eventually everyone gets at least 2 children per family. (cont'd)
@AtheistTower On YouTube and ted.com, look up the lectures by Hans Rosling, professor in global health. He shows how erradicating disease and creating stability and safety for families, *immediately* drops the rate of fertility to 2 children per woman. He shows how good health and fighting disease stabilises population growth.
So your argument that disease holds the poplation in check is wrong. Only epidemics brings the population down, but that is *temporary*.
Humans conquer nature; by the same token we can manage our large populations and overcome resource limitations that other species can't handle. Our superior intellect means that we are only limited by how advanced we become, one day we will terraform other planets and people will be laughing at the fact that over-population was even a thought.
@AtheistTower All well and fine, but what I was responding to what your claim that disease is a way to keep the population in check. I responded that - at least regarding humans - it fails that supposed "purpose" because humans try to negate the effect of the disease by simply breeding more, which causes overpoppulation.
It's not until we defeat disease that we reach a stable popluation, so the absense of disease is one of the most important tools we have for keeping the popluation in check.
Well it is, particularly in other animal and fast reproducing species (e.g. rabbits), it's just another ecological force and it has kept humans in check in history but ultimately we we're suppose to rise above nature and subjugate it anyway (Gen 1:28 - if you don't mind me referencing). We don't necessarily reach a stable population - look at muslim populations in the west - lower death rates etc. but still high fertility rates - and they're growing at an incredibly dangerous rate.
@finalcall07 There is no hope for people like you. I was going to write you a personal message describing how deluded your belief is, but ive come to the conclusion that there is no help for you or any other "devout" believer. You are all to blind and ignorant to open your mind to new possibilities..
Have a good life my friend, ill see you in the ground.
@RockLIFE001 There is still hope for you dear friend - remember to call out to Jesus when you really become desperate and there is no other help, He will answer.
@finalcall07 im sure "jesus" answered all of the desperate people in japan who were crying out for help in their prayers over the last month as they died, all 1,500,000 of them. And the number is still climbing.
You have no proof of a creator, all you have is blind faith.
its 2011 not 364, we have no need for fairytales and supernatural conspiracy anymore, open your eyes and except that "GOD" NEVER existed and NEVER will.
That has been my conclusion these days too. Very few of the religious are even capable of listening to criticism. They just switch off and then spew propaganda in response again. It can be very frustrating.
@Vire70 The burden of proof is on the religious community, and until they can prove there is a creator (which will never happen) they are being illogical and purposefully suspending rational thought. Everyday i see less and less evidence towards the existence of "god", just turn on the news and watch the world fall to pieces, for me this is proof for the un-existence of a creator.
@finalcall07 Atheism is also religion - knowing Thor is reality. Religious people never knew Thor. Only Thor can change a person from a sinner to a saint because it takes a change of heart, not a change of mind.
Thor gives you a new heart, if you truly repent of sin and accept Him as Lord. Thor is not an ideology - fall on your knees and cry out and He will answer.
Do is before it is for ever too late
May Thor bless you
along with the tooth fairy, santa claus, apollo and zeus
@finalcall07 Has it ever occurred to you that the idea of Heaven isn't all that appetizing when you consider the multitude of people who would be condemned to hell? Or are you just that selfish? I was a Christian, I've received Jesus Christ, but one day I thought about all of my friends, some of my family members who wouldn't be 'saved', so I thought this couldn't be right. As simple as that. And if someday I am proven wrong (unlikely), I would tell God that I don't like him all that much.
So far the conversion hasn't been worthwhile or fruitful for me. When I was a Christian I was a happy and productive member of society. Today I am neither happy nor productive. I am more aware of the truth, but it has ruined my life. I wish I could go back to my faith. Alas.
@vingvingit You can go back to your faith very easily. There is MUCH evidence for it. Unfortunately, most pastors are not trained in science or history, etc. to help people know it. But, there is stupendous evidence for Christianity. See my playlist "!Why be a Christian" esp. for much evidence or other playlists.
There is no truth in atheism. Atheism, at least it's modern form, doesn't make any claims. It's main goal is to obscure truth and facts & reject science and history for fables.
No emotional roller coaster transition for me. God belief was never forced on me, just some occasional weak and feeble exposures from a liberal church in a moderately Christian Community. I always questioned the existence of god but with a modicum of respect for Christianity and it's traditions. I have since lost all such respect as my atheism is thorough and complete.
i was never religious. my mom brought me to curch when i was way young thinking it will make me a good person and all that bullshit because she is not very smart at all. my father always hated curch and he was never religious and i can see why my parents got deviorced. my dad was always searous and intelligent and my mom was always stupid
My transition (which was from being Jewish to being a Atheist) was actually very brief and to the point. One day in Math class, I thought "This God stuff really doesn't make sense). From then on, I have been an Atheist; the very concept of God made no sense and had no meaning to me.
@TheraminTrees On form...so I must post things in this way:
A) 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 instead of
B) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5?
I coould do A, but it is not linear&is confusing sometimes. Method B IS linear. Method A require you to read 1, then jump above it to read 2, then jump above that to read 3 and so on. Method B is how any normal article is read and IS linear and organized.
More later..but again 4am and many classes tomorrow.
@TruthIsLife7 Can you please reply after the *last* of my comments only — eg 9/9, not 2/9 or 3/9 — then reply only to your own for multiple entries. B is fine — in 'view all comments' mode, it'll come out in order.
I tried to understand the discussion below, and the only thing i could see, was someone who spent 15 years doing something that never felt, trying to convence another not to belive in god! please that is just ridiculous from you... Otherwise, all the religious people in the world should start thinking about the history of religions and gods, and the evolution of the human race, instead spending their time being brainwashed about Gods existance and keepping the church BUSINESS working.
I’ve been stereotyped by Hovind, Comfort, etc. by countless atheists&it HAS wasted a LOT of time.Thus my heads up. But, it’s good you are different there. Yes, my Christianity is different from some. NO, all forms of Christianity can NOT be justified. That’s no different from saying that all hypotheses in science can be justified. Neither of these are true. I challenge you to find evidence ANYWHERE in the Bible for example where God approves of anyone replacing God’s laws with human traditions.
@TruthIsLife7 1/9—Baraminology is pseudoscience. Classifying something in a systematic way does not a science make. The ability to reproduce, presented as a 'keystone characteristic' of baraminology is hopelessly flawed criteria — subgroups within a species often can't hybridise; if a third species which bridged 2 others becomes extinct, those 2 others appear to be different kinds; we cannot test hybridisation of extinct species.
2/9—Gorillas and chimps, which show no hybridisation are happily lumped together in the group 'bt gorillinae'. When we ask why, we see that baraminologists seem very loose with their criteria when it suits: now growth similarities are given as criteria. Genetic data — eg cytochrome C is identical between chimps and humans, but not chimps and gorillas — is strangely sidelined.
4/9—'I challenge you to find evidence ANYWHERE in the Bible for example where God approves of anyone replacing God’s laws with human traditions.'
—This is a straw man, since I've not made the corresponding assertion. But regarding replacing 'god's laws', people aren't so direct — they don't need to be. They merely pick the laws they think are correct and find a biblical justification.
5/9—'The scientific establishment …. believed in SG, not just Helmont'
—Did I say 'just Helmont'? Let's also not forget, SG was presented by some theists over the centuries to support religious ideas too. Yep, we've moved on. And that's the point here: no one's peddling the level of complexity of SG, so arguing against SG is as fruitless as me debunking geocentrism.
6/9—'Saying God put it there …. cannot be denied …. most certainly is NOT an evidence free assertion. PERIOD.'
—The profound irony here? You've just made yet another evidence-free assertion to support your previous evidence-free assertion. You can capitalise your words all you wish. I'm not carried away in the slightest by people's conviction. I'm looking for substance from you, but all I'm seeing is this evidence-free rhetoric.
7/9—'Creation science has never claimed that God only created one beetle and spider and all others came into being from just one'
—er, never said it did. I'm not talking about what was claimed to be originally created — I'm talking about the claim that one of every kind was taken on the ark. And I'm saying that necessitates that 440,000 species of spider and beetle evolved afterwards — in 10,000 years, apparently. So about 1 new species a week.
8/9—'Todd Wood’s idea on evidence & a couple like him is horrible. '
—To you. To others it is the very heart of christianity. You're continuing to make statements that suggest your christianity is the 'correct' one. But the biblical source you use to justify your christianity is unfortunately flexible enough to justify a host of different and conflicting christianities.
9/9—Please adhere to the form I requested — if you're doing multiple posts, please start with one comment and attach subsequent comments in a linear way. Hopping around all over the place will make this discussion impossible.
Amazing! Absolutely beautiful! Has nothing to do with my journey as for that I totally love my (christian) mother. But to be able to express in words such powerful feelings I commend you. For logic brings truth, even in feelings.
isgdre 2 days ago
Hmmm.... The way you have the eyes set and in a black / blue saturation reminds me of the cover to one of Dr. Robert Hare's books. I believe his was white and red, though.
Is that where the idea came from :)?
VicariousExtrospect 3 days ago
@VicariousExtrospect Nope, not aware of Dr. Robert Hare, or his books. The black/blue tint was a contrast to the black/brown of the accompanying video.
TheraminTrees 3 days ago
Wow, I love all of your videos! :)
DonnieSeriously 4 days ago
@DonnieSeriously Thanks! ;8)
TheraminTrees 4 days ago
Did you ever have contact with Mr. Elliot after he taught you?
PsychoticSnake 6 days ago
@PsychoticSnake 'Did you ever have contact with Mr. Elliot after he taught you?'
—No — and it would've been kind of weird if I had. He and I had a very bare-bones relationship — I did homework, he graded it, and that was really as far as it went.
TheraminTrees 6 days ago
I think my childhood transition to atheism partly came about because of personal childhood trauma. I wonder if I had been a more fortunate child who came from a very well adjusted and nurturing home and never had any reason to doubt the existence of god because prayers were answered (by that I mean that childhood expectations were met), if I would have still been a believer today. When expectations are met, belief would be reinforced, in my case, they were not met.
8698gil 2 weeks ago
I lost belief in god long before I learned about evolution in school, but once I did learn about it, everything made sense to me. Bad things don't happen to kids because it's god's plan, they just happen sometimes. And I always had problems with the biblical creation story, even at 8 years old. I love evolution,it explains everything. My life made sense ever since.
8698gil 2 weeks ago
When you said you were leaving the church, did you file a declaration of defection?
dfounder 3 weeks ago
I'm sort of in the midst of a transition to atheism. While I haven't lost faith in a deity altogether (I still believe the cosmological argument holds SOME ground, even if it is merely that we don't have a full understanding of time) I have lost faith in my 'theity' or God.
I'm going through a sort of grief period though. While I'm aware 'God' was my own perception and was essentially an imaginary friend, he was still the best friend I ever had.
alexxxnewzealand 3 weeks ago
Almost the same as my story, except my spark was an article my world history teacher read to our class describing scientific explanations for the 10 plagues. That was 6 years ago, what a long road its been. If only he knew the profound influence he had on my life.
DuckDuckDuckBang 3 weeks ago
Sunk Cost Fallacy, also known as Concorde fallacy.
Try to leave an organized scam that is only based on getting you and your kids involved in giving a lot of money. otherwise you just waste mre money to a scammer.
olllj 3 weeks ago
Brilliant video. Are your family full-on creationist Christians? How is your relationship with them now?
andyfromsheldon 4 weeks ago
@andyfromsheldon Thanks. My family seemed to have an ambivalence about creation. They embraced evolution — I had posters/charts on my bedroom wall as a very young child. But then there'd be arguments that 'Darwin recanted'. It was very mixed — possibly representing differences between my parents. My relationships in the family have transformed beyond recognition since childhood, mellowing from an inflexible authoritarianism to a deep mutual respect and equality I would've thought impossible.
TheraminTrees 3 weeks ago 5
It's surprising to me how different my transision was from almost every story I have heard from other atheists. What's even more surprising is how early I figured it out. I always thought I was stupid for not figuring it out sooner but I can now see that wasn't the case. Although I have to admit my transision had more to do with emotional distress than actual inteligence since I was only seven at the time.
f00tstep 1 month ago
@f00tstep My transition to atheism happened very early too, I had serious doubts at 8, and I no longer believed at 10. My family was very religious, but my childhood was full of problems, including a severely depressed mother, abandonment, and other issues. I used to pray and nothing ever happened. After a while I knew that prayers were not answered, at least not by any god. I've never had to go through the adult transition phase that so many people find so difficult.
8698gil 2 weeks ago
Thank you so much for this video. I have very recently realised I am an atheist. I have brain damage and severely disabled, and have been lied to by Christians, and it's been hard to think for myself. Now I realise I am smart enough to decide what is evidence for me and I have learned that the bible is not enough. I am somewhat lonely and isolated but perhaps this new perspective is a great adventure, and there is much to be discovered. With much respect and gratitude
bagospannerz 1 month ago
Its a Little slow for me, try coffee?
pandorachild 1 month ago
"People who don't want you to think are never your friend."
That's beautiful.
karadan100 1 month ago
Both of your vids on atheism as congruence are excellent! I find I struggle with belief in others. I find it very hard to respect people who hold such beliefs. I desperately want to be able shake this feeling and accept the beleif of others and not allow it to colour my perspective.
Do you have any insights or advice you could share on this? Cheers.
TheCelticChimp 1 month ago
@TheCelticChimp My own take on this is that it's about embracing ambiguity. I don't know where each new christian I meet is coming from. They could be a smug piece of shit who's dehumanised everyone with a different outlook, or someone struggling to contain huge dissonances, perhaps already questioning their faith — or anywhere between. My default is to trust that someone is good-hearted and capable of/interested in reason — when they show me they're not, I adjust my opinion of them accordingly.
TheraminTrees 1 month ago 7
@TheraminTrees
Certianly a sensible approach. I think part of my problem is that I never believed. I remember being brought to church for things like communion or confirmation and I would look at the adults around me thinking "come on, you don't really beleive this, do you?". The whole thing seems so absurd to me that it is difficult to take another adult seriously who believes this stuff. I understand that it is not that simple but that instinct is difficult to let go of...
TheCelticChimp 1 month ago
@TheraminTrees
... There are many people, exceptionally rational people, who did once believe. I recognise that fact but I suppose not having experienced belief myself I can't empathise with that aspect of it. Giving people the benefit of the doubt as you suggest is probably the best way to go about it. Strange as it may seem, a part of me wishes I had believed once. I think it would make it easier to accept the religious views of others now. Thanks for the advice/perspective.
TheCelticChimp 1 month ago
@TheCelticChimp @TheCelticChimp Though you were never religious, are there any 'silly' beliefs you once held that you no longer hold? Perhaps there's potential for empathy there? I guess yes, I'm different in that respect — I know what it feels like to have religion done to me, as it was to them — injected deeply into them in childhood. In evolutionary terms it makes sense that children quickly absorb their parents' outlook — this would've aided survival in harsh environments.
TheraminTrees 1 month ago
@TheraminTrees
I am certain there must have been silly beliefs that I held but in truth I don't remember them. I presume I believed in Santa for instances but don't have any memory of it. I can complete understand how people take on the beliefs of their community intellectually, I just don't get the religous thing in the visceral sense.
An excellect suggestion though. I am sure there are many silly notions I held on to, I just need to remind myself. Does free will count? :)
TheCelticChimp 1 month ago
@TheCelticChimp Many Christians know they don't have all the answers but do Church to feel better and make sense of life, but they respect my beliefs and don't initiate arguments. Deep down they know my arguments are probably better, but they are afraid. I can respect them. However, I DON'T respect Christians who want to argue when it is clear they haven't really thought about any of the hard questions, and refuse to educate themselves when I show them flaws in their reasoning.
luchaguate 1 month ago
"people who do not want yu to think are never your friend" very wize
CapQuacer 2 months ago
This is a good video.... nuff sed.
TranslucentPlenum 2 months ago
I think Jimmy Carr (of all people) said it best. "It's a revolution for one as it changes everything". Sums my experience up quite nicely :)
Drweavil 2 months ago
BRAVO!!! BRAVO!!! I love everyone of your videos!!!!
IlovemyGlock21 2 months ago
I was a Buddhist, easy switch to atheist, because the original founding of Buddhist is a way of life, not religion.
stevolim 3 months ago
@stevolim One could even be an atheist buddhist as the two positions are not mutually exclusive of each other. It certainly couldn't hurt to lead a 'buddhist lifestyle' as it's actually a pretty healthy way to live both physically and emotionally. There are many atheists who do.
M0US3P0T4TO 1 month ago
Its your life, live it the way you wish. Very nice video.
MrRush629 3 months ago
*older.... lol
MissLoveTantei91 3 months ago
I envy people who lost their faith before age 16 or simply never had any at all (either because they had "natural" critical thinking skills or because they were raised in or exposed to an environment that instilled such skills in them early on). I became non-theist around age 18 (20 now) and still feel like I should have known better when I was younger. I can only imagnie how people in their 40's, 50's, and 60's and beyond must feel. To those much oldeer individuals, have my pity and my respect.
MissLoveTantei91 3 months ago
WHO CARES ? GIANFRANCO FRONZI SEPTEMBER
9493760 4 months ago
I never grew up too religious - but I became an atheist around the age of 10.
I was really an unadvanced kid (my consciousness was slow to advance, but it was just a late bloomer) back then. I really don't know what I thought - the basics I can gather was that I just saw no God talking to me - he didnt appear in our world. And then I entered a very brief stage of denial - rationalizing what he did. But through a series of events Ive learned thats all they are - and thats why Im an atheist today
epicseizurenow 5 months ago
Your story reminds me of myself. I wen't through almost an identical proces when i was around 12, except my country isn't beating down atheism, so after part 4 it was really easy. I'm glad to see other people have had the same experience. All you need is to get a trigger and be curious
misery2951 6 months ago
I think I am somewhere around stage 3. For me, it all started in science class. I walked in, excited to be learn about something because science was and still is my favorite class. but i found out we were learning about evolution. Thats when my brain broke out of what i had been sticking with all my life. By the end of the couple weeks we learned about it, my teacher asked us what we think about evolution. He didn't care what our answer was, whether yes, no, or not sure. he just wanted to know
gradsssara 6 months ago
Part two: So before thoose few weeks I would have answers, evolution stinks christianity is the right way to go. but I didn't, I answered with a I don't know. At this point (a few years or so after wards) i still dont know what to think. sometimes i fear becoming athist but other times it sucks to be christian. well i just wanted to say that
gradsssara 6 months ago
@gradsssara I understand the fear of letting go of a religious background. There is that "what if my religion is right?" question in the back of your mind. I helped myself get over that by thinking what a person brought up in greek times would think of letting go of Zeus, An indian letting go of Shiva etc. We do not fear these at all, so logically we should not fear letting go of our gods any more. I know, easier said than done, but it helped me.
coolgreyoneabby 5 months ago
You should find this teacher and thank him, lol.
adspadoublea 6 months ago
Can I just ask any atheist's reading this what made them come to the conclusion of Atheism over Agnosticism? - I was brought up pretty strict catholic, but my journey led me to Agnostic-Theism - in that I don't think it's possible for humans to definitively know one way or another, or the nature of "god" - but I choose to believe anyway - and that is not a cop-out, as to my mind advances in Quantum Physics especially that of String-Theory speaks to something that I feel could constitute "god".
LazarusCato 6 months ago
@LazarusCato 'Can I just ask any atheist's reading this what made them come to the conclusion of Atheism over Agnosticism?'
—I didn't choose atheism over agnosticism — they refer to two different dimensions so are not mutually exclusive or a matter of preference over the other. My atheism means I don't believe in any gods. My agnosticism reflects god concepts I consider to be unknowable — though we can also rule out many gods because their definitions set up unworkable contradictions.
TheraminTrees 6 months ago 20
@TheraminTrees 'rule out many gods because their definitions set up unworkable contradictions'. Are you so sure about this? Aren't unworkable contradictions here to be solved or left on its own or actually something that is unworkable because of our own restrictions. Sometimes things are unworkable, because WE cannot work with them, society, science, organisms, objects cannot and a nanosecond or millions of years later somebody (we?) just knows that they have been workable all along.
artbielz 6 months ago
@artbielz ''rule out many gods because their definitions set up unworkable contradictions'. Are you so sure about this?'
—Yes. Have a look at my 'there are no gods' part 2, so get a sense of what I'm talking about.
TheraminTrees 6 months ago
@TheraminTrees
Thanks for this. Reassuring that there are some idiosyncrasies in the whole thing. I like your videos and thoughts. They really show how you have grown and are growing throughout life. My friend E. would say: You have got a rich inner life. I am using her words here for you. I am sure that you are aware that your stuff has reached some guru like status. But being perceived as a guru (which, by the way, I don't) is perhaps not your problem.
artbielz 6 months ago
@LazarusCato
This is an interesting video (very truthful and enlightening). Asking about any atheist's reading. I am an atheist who has brought up without any religious indoctrination, no discussion about god other than as part of a historical and cultural process (family has some historical connections) but in a very strict Catholic country. I was free enough to explore the images/rituals/narratives of Catholicism as an observer and occasional participant in the rituals (of the others)
artbielz 6 months ago
Respond to this video...
artbielz 6 months ago
@LazarusCato
2nd part, seems can't live with just one confined reply running out of words. I wanted to say, I never was troubled about believing or not. It seemed natural to me not to believe in a god or gods, but loving some narratives, being sceptical of some and seeing religion as part of the big power games (military, religion, secular powers, etc). If people asked/ask me, what I believe in, I can now TRUTHFULLY say, in LIFE.
artbielz 6 months ago
@LazarusCato and no 3, how significant LOL (triptych). Theramin Trees said this:'and I believe the definitions put forward for some gods makes them unknowable — agnostic(Quote end)' Unknowable gods are not an essential question to me other than they can be great and horrible narratives as the gods who have penetrated lives/societies. So many things are unknowable (definitions or not). I do not know if there are any gods, but I know there are many narratives and people are great story-tellers.
artbielz 6 months ago
@LazarusCato I am breaking the 3 and move to 4. I know that culturally and philosophically it is an essential narrative. I do not believe in aliens other than there is a possibility that other life forms DO exist. To be honest, there are aliens, because there is simple life on other planets and our DNA comes from space. So we are aliens. Perhaps I should be an agnostic. I have to think about this. FOR THE TIME BEING I AM AN ATHEIST.
artbielz 6 months ago
@LazarusCato 5) I am a storyteller too. How can one be sure about an invention like god being more than just a figment of our minds, a soothing lullaby sometimes and a revengeful entity another one? I am polarising here. We tend to believe our own narratives. We can distort (sometimes unknowingly) our memories, our history, etc. We are confined to our biology/embodiment. So we have invented gods and are now - because of this and how we deal or not with history looped into these narratives.
artbielz 6 months ago
@LazarusCato ad response 2 'I never was troubled about believing or not.' Not true. I was troubled as a young person, as i saw all the others believing so strongly and all this drama (rituals). Even as I child i was inquisitive and always wanted to know more (also about gods). I now believe, we all have made this too important. Ethics don't need religions or god(s), and I believe it is enough treating ourselves and the world well and not losing our curiosity and love for life. And COMMUNICATE!
artbielz 6 months ago
@artbielz God & Religion 2 me are totally separate, I can 100% understand & emphatically agree with being anti-religion (the dogma, archaic rituals, power, etc) - but I don't understand (personally) how/why some ppl go that extra step when freeing themselves of religion 2making a definitive statement like "god doesn't exist" when there is no evidence 2 prove or disprove this theory. I 100% agree with being anti-creationist & pro-evolution but god & evo. aren't mutually exclusive concepts either.
LazarusCato 6 months ago
Comment removed
artbielz 6 months ago
@LazarusCato I quite like the rituals in religion. All cultures have their rituals. Currently mobile phones, I tunes and I pod, etc.. Of course, you cannot make a definite statement. It sounds a bit metaphysical, when I say, I JUST KNOW (sense) that god does not exist. It is a bit like maths. You postulate an axiom (here god) and then you develop a (complex) system to prove this axiom. The axiom could be random choice. As an 'evolutionist' I can't believe in god(s). It would be hypocritical.
artbielz 6 months ago
@LazarusCato If I felt that a tomato on my table could constitute "god", would you call me a theist?
martindj88 6 months ago
@LazarusCato
"Can I just ask any atheist's reading this what made them come to the conclusion of Atheism over Agnosticism?"~
For me personally it was the realization that lies cover untruths.. not unknowns.
I am agnostic about a great many things in science but like you I struggled with what the difference might be between a god that exists and created everything but does not answer prayers.. does not reward or punish but simply is.. and what ever natural force might have created hydrogen.
PaleHearse 3 months ago
@LazarusCato
Indeed one can actually be both..
As a-theism is technically the belief that -theism- isnt true.. It does not actually delegate that there is no god at all.. just that the Theist vision of god, holds no ground.
Additionally, quantum physics is the quantitative physics of energy.. From what I can tell, you are actually attracted to how your understanding of quantum -theory- changes your experience and quality of physics- So what you really like is Qualitative Physics. ;)
Kelidiscope 3 months ago
@Kelidiscope An idiot that doesn't know what atheism is...
It is a Greek word with Greek morphology using Greek morphemes. Meaning it is (a+theos)+ism.
A = No/Without
Theos = God
Ism = A suffix ONLY ONLY ONLY!!!!! denoting adherence to an ideology etc.
(No/Without + God) adherence to the aforementioned ideology; or (A+Theos)Ism; or (A+the)ism.
How you THINK Greek works for this word is literally an impossible form, you rapist of language. The term you're looking for is non-theism.
saltesc 2 months ago
@saltesc
the prefixes = "a" and "non" are completely synonymous and mean the same thing..(not, without, lacking)
Kelidiscope 2 months ago
@Kelidiscope Please... you are displaying a deep ignorance of facts and a quite childish and desperate attempt to place something your clearly don't understand into terms which suit you. If you're going to bring your point to the table, the least you can do is make sure it's correct. Atheism=without god. Your definition is irrelevant.
Drweavil 2 months ago
@Drweavil
In my humble opinion it is you that is displaying the ignorance-
Atheism= Without God= And by all rights one can still be an Agnostic Atheist, and by the accounts, most people are.
. Without God, but unsure either way.
I was myself for a time.
There is a current misunderstanding about the word "Atheist" because of the baggage associated with it- but by the very definitions you are stating, one can still remain Agnostic and be an Atheist.
Kelidiscope 2 months ago
@Kelidiscope You mean the baggage, thrust upon it by millennia of prejudice, hatred and superstition by ignorant, arrogant and in many cases downright evil priests/rabbi's and mullahs. Agnosticism to use Clarence Darrow's definition is to "not be sure". Atheism simply means that gods to not figure in any part of life and are not necessary for any function. They are redundant and therefore we are without them. It is not a belief because by definition it is the opposite to belief.
Drweavil 2 months ago
@Drweavil
"Atheism simply means that gods to not figure in any part of life and are not necessary for any function."
That is totally your own alteration and opinion of the definition..
And even so, what proof do you have? Because in the end, it is still a belief. Everything in life is..
Kelidiscope 2 months ago
@Kelidiscope Didn't your kindergarten teach you that you can't force a square peg into a round hole? Atheism is the absence of belief. If you can't understand that basic concept then it is pointless speaking with you.
Drweavil 2 months ago
@Drweavil "Atheism is the absence of belief."
Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.
In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. - wiki
noun
1.the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2.disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings. - dictionary
These are broad and widely used definitions- seems to me you are the one attempting to place a square peg into a round hole..
Kelidiscope 2 months ago
Just like the baggage associated with being a Christian, or Muslim, etc..
"They are redundant and therefore we are without them."
This is strictly your opinion- and therefor your belief.
Kelidiscope 2 months ago
@LazarusCato Besides, I can't see why I would choose to adopt an agnostic standpoint on this issue, but not the other areas of intellectual decision that I have encountered in my life (such as whether or not I consider skin pigmentation an indicator of natural superiority). I may never be certain, but one never is; we reach decisions based upon the 'Search for Meaning'.
woddle1996 3 months ago
@woddle1996 Agnosticism is adopted when you admit that, as humans, we know fuck all about the universe and beyond. We barely have information beyond our solar system. The god concept is just as plausible as it isn't plausible. We certainly have no evidence for one, but it's the only predominant concept we've managed to come up with when explaining existence—though it in itself has its many flaws.
saltesc 2 months ago
@saltesc I'm afraid I disagree. We don't exactly know fuck all about the universe, we have learned quite a lot of information - although I will admit that because of it's scale we know the details of very little of it's contents. However, in no way is the god concept as plausible as implausible, despite the scant evidence in His favour, and that is a sensible reason not to believe.
woddle1996 2 months ago
@saltesc 'We certainly have no evidence for one, but it's the only predominant concept we've managed to come up with when explaining existence'
—While the god[s] concept is certainly popular, I can't see how the words 'only' or 'predominant' apply. 'Only' seems to exclude the concept of natural causes. 'Predominant' — is that meaning 'strongest' or 'most popular'? I'd argue against strongest; I'd concede most popular, though question it's value. Can you clarify what you mean?
TheraminTrees 2 months ago
Are you familiar with Adlerian Psychotherapy? Your transition from a faith based life to finding meaning in truth via scientific inquiries is a prime example of compensation. Your videos are well done. I enjoy them thoroughly, and I'm a devout Catholic.
IrishNickO 6 months ago
@IrishNickO 'Are you familiar with Adlerian Psychotherapy? Your transition from a faith based life to finding meaning in truth via scientific inquiries is a prime example of compensation.'
—I'm aware of the Adlerian concepts of compensation, resignation, etc., yes. I'd be cautious of using these terms in unqualified ways — compensation is used in various contexts which don't apply here. But I'd agree that an unnecessary disadvantage was imposed on me, and that I overcame that disadvantage.
TheraminTrees 6 months ago
@TheraminTrees I'm actually very qualified to use these terms as a trained Counselor, however, you are right, I'm not your Counselor so I can't know for sure. My comment regarding compensation was not a reproach towards you, just a psychological observation I couldn't help but notice.
IrishNickO 6 months ago
@IrishNickO 'I'm actually very qualified to use these terms as a trained Counselor, however, you are right, I'm not your Counselor so I can't know for sure. '
—No, I didn't mean *you* were unqualified. When I spoke about using the term in an unqualified way, I meant using it without making specific qualifications about context. And I didn't take it as a reproach.
TheraminTrees 6 months ago
Beautifully written, structured and delivered.
Luckily, I never had a religious upbringing.
Two points struck me forcibly: one when you said, "I wanted to wipe him off the face of the earth." That must be the reaction to questioning by those whose belief system is their whole life; a reaction which accounts for most of the persecution and murder in the world.
I've forgotten the 2nd point. I am 75 and my short-term memory is terrible. But I know that it made me laugh rather than gasp.
usefulmusic 6 months ago 16
@usefulmusic Yes — my own experience of that hostility informs my experiences of the hostility that comes my way, and substantially mitigates my emotional response. For me, when I was back there wanting my questioning teacher not to exist, it was really of course the difficult question I didn't want to exist. But it all gets jumbled up in the unaware moment, doesn't it.
TheraminTrees 6 months ago
@usefulmusic Same here, starting off on level 6 is a boon indeed.
woddle1996 3 months ago
This was like listening to my own story. I was raised a Jehovah's Witness and at a very very early age started thinking that some things didn't make sense, but put it down to "I just need to read the Bible properly". In high school I had the most amazing teacher who taught Comparitive Civilizations and Mythology. The story is too long to tell here, but it's very near the same path. I could say I ower my free life to that man
Nirah 6 months ago
I noticed the handwriting differs on your shot of the paper. Is this actually a scan of your original paper that you hold on to or just a prop you made? Just curious, as it would be cool if you kept it to highlight the amazing transition this one sentence question made in your life.
crazytown232001 7 months ago
@crazytown232001 Yes, I do have the original — I didn't use it here because it's currently packed away in storage. It was quite a moment coming across that essay a few years ago — over the years, I'd forgotten how fervent I was. Brought back more accurate — if uncomfortable — memories of my mindset.
TheraminTrees 7 months ago
Although I doubt Mr Elliot expected so much from his question, have you ever thought about searching him out and thanking him? Maybe someone else that watches your videos knows him. Maybe if you let us know which school it was, someone that goes there or knows of him can email him this video. Anyhow, thanks for your excellent videos.
crazytown232001 7 months ago
@crazytown232001 Thanks. I've actually been approached by people in the professional business of tracking folks down, in response to this video. For me, my gratitude to Mr E feels resolved in this video — similar to the way that sometimes just writing a letter, rather than sending it, is all that's needed.
TheraminTrees 7 months ago
@TheraminTrees
I am a child, technically. But I consider myself a strong willed and intelligent person, however. I cannot comprehend the possibility of nothingness after death, no rebirth, no heaven or anything along those lines. However the logical part of me says that people who see a bright light when they die, are just experiencing chemical reactions as the brain dies. What are your thoughts? Did you ever ponder such things, can you tell me the conclusions you came too? Much love. Josh.
Artemis194 7 months ago
@Artemis194 I realize this question was not directed at me, but I would like to offer an answer. Try to comprehend before you were born. Does it bother you that you didn't exist then? Thinking too much about something can make it seem far more complicated than it really is. There centuries and millenia before you were born in which you did not exist, and that 'nothingness' never bothered you in the least. It would be the same after death
Nirah 6 months ago
@Nirah
But before I was born...I never had the comprehend the possibility of nothingness, or comprehend what nothingness MAY be like...
Artemis194 6 months ago
@Artemis194 It won't be like anything, that's the point. What's it like to pass out or fall asleep? Nothing. You're not aware of anything until you wake up (assuming you didn't dream of course). My point is, just because you can't comprehend it shouldn't make it scary. It will happen, and when it does, you won't have to think about it, because you won't be there. It won't be you floating around in nothing--you will be gone. The nothingness before and after birth is the same thing: non-existance
Nirah 6 months ago
@Nirah The most important and, of course, life-changing event in our life is our death. All our friends and relatives and, if we were famous, potentially millions of people will read or hear about our death – and yet we don't. Ironic, innit?
usefulmusic 6 months ago
@TheraminTrees This is a very heartfelt, objective, and insightful window onto Christian apostasy. And might I say, with excellent graphic presentation.
MaxwellEdisonPhD 7 months ago
you re a great person
Dreiz 7 months ago
Wow I´m so lucky there are not so many christian dogmas around here...never knew I was so lucky until I watched this video. Thx^^
DunenPai 8 months ago
Fantastic video, 'nuff said
hellsfinallyfrozen 8 months ago
How did you establish boundaries and respect?
RuinSonic 8 months ago
you sound so much like a robot. i don't practice my religion much anymore, but not exactly ready to be atheist. the problem with god is that without knowledge from others god wouldn't exist. everyone is born with a clean slate
sherwinjtb 8 months ago
@Radman916 he (god) also commited genocide. I dont care how bad a race of people maybe you cant just wipe them out cause your an angry god. I will not worship a god who thinks genocide is the answer to all his problems =)
andysim232 8 months ago
@Radman916 People kill people dear friend and their motives are always selfish - religious people also.
I am not religious though. I know the real Jesus. I am a pragmatist and a realist. I do not believe in fairy tales.
Take care
finalcall07 9 months ago
@Radman916 Dear friend, only Jesus can set you free from fear and bondage and give you peace that passes all understanding. I speak from experience. I do not take any medication and I sleep like a baby.I was not always like that.
If you repent of your sins Jesus forgives you and gives you peace for your soul. only Jesus can do that, no drugs or any substances that cause addictions. Sin causes anxiety, fear, stress and commit suicide - the devil is a bad partner.
finalcall07 9 months ago
@Radman916 Dear friend, we all know right from wrong but some take pleasure in wickedness. The wages of sin is death, not just mortal death but eternal damnation and punishment in hell.
God, WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
finalcall07 9 months ago
There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, 10but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:6-11.
Payday is coming - we must prepare. we will reap what we have sown. That is the truth.
finalcall07 9 months ago
@finalcall07 What I don't like is that God has already turned the cards against me. If he is omniscient, he knows where I'm headed, and that is hell. Why? It is because I don't believe in Jesus. Well, I used to. I was a devout Christian, but then once I was challenged, I investigated. And the more you investigate, the more you will see you've been lied to. You cannot use scripture to convince people to believe because they don't believe in the scripture.
You must present evidence.
deguesstheboxingfan 8 months ago
@Radman916 Dear friend, God made you perfect, even though you don't know Him, He also wrote His laws in your heart - you have a perfect conscience, telling you right from wrong. None of us have any excuse for doing wrong, hurting and harming other people. Your conscience immediately tells you when you sin. That is your first proof, you are made in the image of God, you are not an animal that has no conscience.
Your conscience is the voice of God in you. Have you ever listened? We must obey!
finalcall07 9 months ago
@Radman916 That is now what you call fool's logic - blame God.
Dear friend, God made everything good but man is evil in his heart and his thoughts are evil. That is why God will put man in eternal punishment for his crimes. Hell is prepared for those who disobey God. God knows to protect those who fear and obey Him, but He punishes those who disobey so that they can repent, turn away from sin. Friend it is because God loves us that we are not all just wiped out.from the face of the earth.
finalcall07 9 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Atheism is also religion - knowing Jesus is reality. Religious people never knew Jesus. Only Jesus can change a person from a sinner to a saint because it takes a change of heart, not a change of mind.
Jesus gives you a new heart, if you truly repent of sin and accept Him as Lord. Jesus is not an ideology - fall on your knees and cry out to Him and He will answer.
Do is before it is for ever too late.
May Jesus bless you.
finalcall07 9 months ago
@finalcall07 Nope, atheism isn't a religion — there is no system of faith to it whatsoever. And nope, I and a multitude of others did all the repenting, accepting and calling out to him and to the christian god, and nothing happened, so your assurance that he will answer is also false. Of course many just don't want to deal with that fact — making up fantasy rationalisations like 'you didn't have enough faith', etc., rather than honouring the problematic truth.
TheraminTrees 9 months ago 49
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@TheraminTrees If you repented you would not be a sinner any more dear friend - a person who has stopped smoking is not a smoker any more - Jesus does not go along with people who are not serious.
finalcall07 8 months ago
@finalcall07 So you're basically saying I lied. Great — that saves such a lot of time. Clearly with such mistrust, an adult conversation is out of the question.
TheraminTrees 8 months ago 33
@finalcall07 Please hang yourself or die in a fire. Thank you.
ObLiViOnZThEkIllEr 7 months ago
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@TheraminTrees
"No system of faith to it"
Atheism requires more faith when everything is taken into account.
AtheistTower 8 months ago
@AtheistTower 'Atheism requires more faith when everything is taken into account.'
—How so?
TheraminTrees 8 months ago 26
@AtheistTower You must be a follower of the "esteemed" Frank Turek. I enjoyed watching his ego get a beating in his debate with Hitchens. Gave me a good laugh
LoquaciousApe 8 months ago
@LoquaciousApe
Nope, I'm basing that assertion on my own experiences as well those of other ex-atheists.
AtheistTower 8 months ago
@AtheistTower ex atheist are mostly people that could not deal with reality and there own pending mortality, so they spend there time rationalizing there pass beliefs/religion in hopes that they can find some sort of loophole, or they might turn to the God of the gaps type deal, being an atheist is no fun at all personally for me, it's not for the faint of heart, i really wanted there to be a loving God, i think everyone wishes for something more I.E an afterlife or something other
zipitup75 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@AtheistTower "Atheism requires more faith when everything is taken into account. "
Heh, that's like saying "Not believing in Santa/The Tooth Fairy/The Flying Spaghetti Monster requires more faith than believing in them".
mkarnerfors 8 months ago
@AtheistTower
Plato once said "anti-polytheism requires more faith when everything is taken into account."
Aesop once said "the gods help those who help themselves."
all you antagnostics have historically been the same kind of trash.
religion is a poison that will never help you last forever.
LuminousTruth 8 months ago 3
@LuminousTruth
Why do you bring up religion? nobody cares nor defends religion collectively yet you seem to collectively attack and insistently make straw man arguments while you're at it. Plato lived in a time of ignorance, however, the more we realise about the universe, the more it becomes apparent that there was fundamental design during every step of the way. Are you a scientist? If not then why are you bothering to argue with one.
AtheistTower 8 months ago
@AtheistTower
What an interesting perspective you have. I have personally come accross pleanty of people who defend religion collectively. I'm afraid that you know nothing about Plato, when it comes to these matters Socrates instructed him into being much much wiser than you or many others. Where your right-brained artistic perspective sees "fundi design" my left brain sees fundamental truth. I'm affraid 1 can aquire many a degree while holding stedfast to an FSM believe. why do you bother?
LuminousTruth 8 months ago
@LuminousTruth
Indeed but those people are idiots; and there are some who do believe all religions lead to heaven which makes no sense even from a religious point of view. You stick to naturalistic views though, I could stare at a computer all day and say well it's made up of this and that and that, but it takes a different kind of perspective to say, well it's been designed by somebody clearly - through it's order and complexity. Why can't you see that with creation too?
AtheistTower 8 months ago
@AtheistTower
have you ever seen a snowflake?
but it doesn't matter, to you it would have been designed by God, just like cancer and pain and such other things.
snowflakes are artful, yet they had no designer, they opporate and form through natural law, just like everything else. if you ask where these laws come from I might tell you that they come from the same place you think God comes from.
snowflakes will melt and cease to exist. Death anxiety is instinct, movie: Flight from death: ...
LuminousTruth 7 months ago
@LuminousTruth
You think pain is bad?? You're actually starting to sound like a creationist who labels it as 'bad'; pain is absolutely fundamental. Ultimately cancer and disease have a population check function; but it doesn't mean we should conquer each; we're commanded to actually. Snowflakes are a weak analogy, I'm talking about the very laws of the universe, the workings of quantum physics, the biochemistry of the cell. So where do these laws come from then?
AtheistTower 7 months ago
@AtheistTower
No, and I've never said cancer was bad either. It's all based on your artistic p.o.v.
where does the nature of our Universe come from? I thought I already gave an answer in my previous comment. To be less vague perhaps it is simply fundamental... like you think this God concept is. As Hitchens has artfully put it: God adds no explainatory value. Is there any way to prove you wrong?
LuminousTruth 7 months ago
@LuminousTruth
Well according to M-theory and recent discoveries, the nature of our universe itself - like the big bang - derives from a single unifying point. Which very much points to a designer. A designer puts unifying rules into anything - it's the element of underlying order within observable chaos. The problem with you atheists is that you can't actually look at the big picture, you lack the ability to think in an absolute sense, and quite frankly it's sad.
AtheistTower 7 months ago
@AtheistTower
I'm actually Agnostic. and by experience, I think there is God. So far, It hasn't demonstrated if it created the current universe or not. The main issue is that God adds no explainatory value to existance. For all you know this "unifying point" is fundamental. The problem with many theists is that they quickly "jump" into the abyss of their artistic conclusions. They seem to lack an ability to think in a careful step by step basis. No shame, I'm sure sometimes it's useful.
LuminousTruth 7 months ago
@LuminousTruth
Hmmm, well you're more open minded than I gave you credit for. I think if you keep an open mind you'll stumble on the truth yourself one day.
AtheistTower 7 months ago
@AtheistTower
if i open it too much, I might spill all the information. Most in the right-hand path are completely close-minded to the left-hand path. if you keep an open mind, you might let the enemy in, who will stumble you into an inescapeable lie. fun things to think about. However, Agnosticism is truth, there is no way around this self-evident condition: I think, therefore I am: agnostic.
LuminousTruth 7 months ago
@LuminousTruth
Well yeah, you need to be skeptical simultaneously really, willing to listen to anyone but at the same time putting everything you're told to the test.
AtheistTower 7 months ago
@AtheistTower Actually, disease is one major reason that the poulation growth has been so bad, because people over-compensate. When you know you may lose several of your childern to inane but serious causes - disease being one of them - you get more children. So when you do *not* lose them, then you have "too many". Also those that did lose children didn't stop trying, so eventually everyone gets at least 2 children per family. (cont'd)
mkarnerfors 7 months ago
@AtheistTower On YouTube and ted.com, look up the lectures by Hans Rosling, professor in global health. He shows how erradicating disease and creating stability and safety for families, *immediately* drops the rate of fertility to 2 children per woman. He shows how good health and fighting disease stabilises population growth.
So your argument that disease holds the poplation in check is wrong. Only epidemics brings the population down, but that is *temporary*.
mkarnerfors 7 months ago
@mkarnerfors
Humans conquer nature; by the same token we can manage our large populations and overcome resource limitations that other species can't handle. Our superior intellect means that we are only limited by how advanced we become, one day we will terraform other planets and people will be laughing at the fact that over-population was even a thought.
AtheistTower 7 months ago
@AtheistTower All well and fine, but what I was responding to what your claim that disease is a way to keep the population in check. I responded that - at least regarding humans - it fails that supposed "purpose" because humans try to negate the effect of the disease by simply breeding more, which causes overpoppulation.
It's not until we defeat disease that we reach a stable popluation, so the absense of disease is one of the most important tools we have for keeping the popluation in check.
mkarnerfors 7 months ago
@mkarnerfors
Well it is, particularly in other animal and fast reproducing species (e.g. rabbits), it's just another ecological force and it has kept humans in check in history but ultimately we we're suppose to rise above nature and subjugate it anyway (Gen 1:28 - if you don't mind me referencing). We don't necessarily reach a stable population - look at muslim populations in the west - lower death rates etc. but still high fertility rates - and they're growing at an incredibly dangerous rate.
AtheistTower 7 months ago
@finalcall07 Yes, you've written what your beliefs are. But are you able to explain why you believe them?
mbturner625 9 months ago
@finalcall07 There is no hope for people like you. I was going to write you a personal message describing how deluded your belief is, but ive come to the conclusion that there is no help for you or any other "devout" believer. You are all to blind and ignorant to open your mind to new possibilities..
Have a good life my friend, ill see you in the ground.
RockLIFE001 9 months ago
@RockLIFE001 There is still hope for you dear friend - remember to call out to Jesus when you really become desperate and there is no other help, He will answer.
May Jesus bless you
finalcall07 9 months ago
@finalcall07 im sure "jesus" answered all of the desperate people in japan who were crying out for help in their prayers over the last month as they died, all 1,500,000 of them. And the number is still climbing.
You have no proof of a creator, all you have is blind faith.
its 2011 not 364, we have no need for fairytales and supernatural conspiracy anymore, open your eyes and except that "GOD" NEVER existed and NEVER will.
RockLIFE001 9 months ago
@RockLIFE001
That has been my conclusion these days too. Very few of the religious are even capable of listening to criticism. They just switch off and then spew propaganda in response again. It can be very frustrating.
Vire70 9 months ago
@Vire70 The burden of proof is on the religious community, and until they can prove there is a creator (which will never happen) they are being illogical and purposefully suspending rational thought. Everyday i see less and less evidence towards the existence of "god", just turn on the news and watch the world fall to pieces, for me this is proof for the un-existence of a creator.
RockLIFE001 9 months ago
@finalcall07 BRAIN > HEART , that's how people survive.
ultraudv 9 months ago 13
@finalcall07 wow i know in the bible its says jesus is a zombie and an astronaut, but thats the first time i heard of him being a heart surgeon.
KeyBal77 8 months ago
@finalcall07 The "heart" is part of the mind....the real heart is just a chest muscle.
Ledwix 8 months ago 3
@finalcall07 Atheism is also religion - knowing Thor is reality. Religious people never knew Thor. Only Thor can change a person from a sinner to a saint because it takes a change of heart, not a change of mind.
Thor gives you a new heart, if you truly repent of sin and accept Him as Lord. Thor is not an ideology - fall on your knees and cry out and He will answer.
Do is before it is for ever too late
May Thor bless you
along with the tooth fairy, santa claus, apollo and zeus
Cougar139tweak 7 months ago in playlist QualiaSoup & TheraminTrees 15
@Cougar139tweak. No way! Loki is way stronger than Thor. Yep, my god is so much better than yours. Ha! ;-)
DecepticonLeader 2 months ago
@finalcall07 Has it ever occurred to you that the idea of Heaven isn't all that appetizing when you consider the multitude of people who would be condemned to hell? Or are you just that selfish? I was a Christian, I've received Jesus Christ, but one day I thought about all of my friends, some of my family members who wouldn't be 'saved', so I thought this couldn't be right. As simple as that. And if someday I am proven wrong (unlikely), I would tell God that I don't like him all that much.
juicerna 7 months ago
Taking photos of children/boys in his house means he was using his religion as a crutch to get a resolve for his pedophile tendencies.
truvelocity 9 months ago
So far the conversion hasn't been worthwhile or fruitful for me. When I was a Christian I was a happy and productive member of society. Today I am neither happy nor productive. I am more aware of the truth, but it has ruined my life. I wish I could go back to my faith. Alas.
vingvingit 10 months ago
@vingvingit You can go back to your faith very easily. There is MUCH evidence for it. Unfortunately, most pastors are not trained in science or history, etc. to help people know it. But, there is stupendous evidence for Christianity. See my playlist "!Why be a Christian" esp. for much evidence or other playlists.
There is no truth in atheism. Atheism, at least it's modern form, doesn't make any claims. It's main goal is to obscure truth and facts & reject science and history for fables.
TruthIsLife7 9 months ago
@TruthIsLife7 Atheism doesn't have a main goal. It is the non-belief in any deity. It is not an organization or even a coherent movement.
Arachnivore 9 months ago
No emotional roller coaster transition for me. God belief was never forced on me, just some occasional weak and feeble exposures from a liberal church in a moderately Christian Community. I always questioned the existence of god but with a modicum of respect for Christianity and it's traditions. I have since lost all such respect as my atheism is thorough and complete.
socksumi 10 months ago
i was never religious. my mom brought me to curch when i was way young thinking it will make me a good person and all that bullshit because she is not very smart at all. my father always hated curch and he was never religious and i can see why my parents got deviorced. my dad was always searous and intelligent and my mom was always stupid
tylenator552 10 months ago
My transition (which was from being Jewish to being a Atheist) was actually very brief and to the point. One day in Math class, I thought "This God stuff really doesn't make sense). From then on, I have been an Atheist; the very concept of God made no sense and had no meaning to me.
TheSmartChild13 10 months ago
@TheraminTrees On form...so I must post things in this way:
A) 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 instead of
B) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5?
I coould do A, but it is not linear&is confusing sometimes. Method B IS linear. Method A require you to read 1, then jump above it to read 2, then jump above that to read 3 and so on. Method B is how any normal article is read and IS linear and organized.
More later..but again 4am and many classes tomorrow.
TruthIsLife7 10 months ago
@TruthIsLife7 Can you please reply after the *last* of my comments only — eg 9/9, not 2/9 or 3/9 — then reply only to your own for multiple entries. B is fine — in 'view all comments' mode, it'll come out in order.
TheraminTrees 10 months ago
I tried to understand the discussion below, and the only thing i could see, was someone who spent 15 years doing something that never felt, trying to convence another not to belive in god! please that is just ridiculous from you... Otherwise, all the religious people in the world should start thinking about the history of religions and gods, and the evolution of the human race, instead spending their time being brainwashed about Gods existance and keepping the church BUSINESS working.
tatidred 10 months ago
I’ve been stereotyped by Hovind, Comfort, etc. by countless atheists&it HAS wasted a LOT of time.Thus my heads up. But, it’s good you are different there. Yes, my Christianity is different from some. NO, all forms of Christianity can NOT be justified. That’s no different from saying that all hypotheses in science can be justified. Neither of these are true. I challenge you to find evidence ANYWHERE in the Bible for example where God approves of anyone replacing God’s laws with human traditions.
TruthIsLife7 10 months ago
@TruthIsLife7 1/9—Baraminology is pseudoscience. Classifying something in a systematic way does not a science make. The ability to reproduce, presented as a 'keystone characteristic' of baraminology is hopelessly flawed criteria — subgroups within a species often can't hybridise; if a third species which bridged 2 others becomes extinct, those 2 others appear to be different kinds; we cannot test hybridisation of extinct species.
TheraminTrees 10 months ago
2/9—Gorillas and chimps, which show no hybridisation are happily lumped together in the group 'bt gorillinae'. When we ask why, we see that baraminologists seem very loose with their criteria when it suits: now growth similarities are given as criteria. Genetic data — eg cytochrome C is identical between chimps and humans, but not chimps and gorillas — is strangely sidelined.
TheraminTrees 10 months ago
3/9—'NO, all forms of Christianity can NOT be justified.'
—…. I don't argue that they can — I don't need to — it's enough that directly conflicting versions can be, and are, justified scripturally.
'The weight of evidence is solely on the side of theists …. to the tune of trillions of cases'
—Bald rhetoric. Well, since you give no evidence for your assertion, it can be dismissed without argument.
TheraminTrees 10 months ago
4/9—'I challenge you to find evidence ANYWHERE in the Bible for example where God approves of anyone replacing God’s laws with human traditions.'
—This is a straw man, since I've not made the corresponding assertion. But regarding replacing 'god's laws', people aren't so direct — they don't need to be. They merely pick the laws they think are correct and find a biblical justification.
TheraminTrees 10 months ago
5/9—'The scientific establishment …. believed in SG, not just Helmont'
—Did I say 'just Helmont'? Let's also not forget, SG was presented by some theists over the centuries to support religious ideas too. Yep, we've moved on. And that's the point here: no one's peddling the level of complexity of SG, so arguing against SG is as fruitless as me debunking geocentrism.
TheraminTrees 10 months ago
6/9—'Saying God put it there …. cannot be denied …. most certainly is NOT an evidence free assertion. PERIOD.'
—The profound irony here? You've just made yet another evidence-free assertion to support your previous evidence-free assertion. You can capitalise your words all you wish. I'm not carried away in the slightest by people's conviction. I'm looking for substance from you, but all I'm seeing is this evidence-free rhetoric.
TheraminTrees 10 months ago
7/9—'Creation science has never claimed that God only created one beetle and spider and all others came into being from just one'
—er, never said it did. I'm not talking about what was claimed to be originally created — I'm talking about the claim that one of every kind was taken on the ark. And I'm saying that necessitates that 440,000 species of spider and beetle evolved afterwards — in 10,000 years, apparently. So about 1 new species a week.
TheraminTrees 10 months ago
8/9—'Todd Wood’s idea on evidence & a couple like him is horrible. '
—To you. To others it is the very heart of christianity. You're continuing to make statements that suggest your christianity is the 'correct' one. But the biblical source you use to justify your christianity is unfortunately flexible enough to justify a host of different and conflicting christianities.
TheraminTrees 10 months ago
9/9—Please adhere to the form I requested — if you're doing multiple posts, please start with one comment and attach subsequent comments in a linear way. Hopping around all over the place will make this discussion impossible.
TheraminTrees 10 months ago
Comment removed
TruthIsLife7 10 months ago