She said, "mystic" instead of "christian." Clever. I wonder what she thought of the "gospel of prosperity"? She was completely wrong about christianity; it's always been a force for the accumulation and concentration of wealth and power, not altrurism. America's founders answered her argument--laissez-faire doesn't work. The poor woman was wrong about everything and probably went to her grave thinking she was right.
She is preaching the bible: love your fellow man AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF. You cannot love you fellow man MORE than you love your self, that would be a crime against your own skin. To love me more than you love yourself IS idealism gone to the extreme. To love someone more than you love yourself is to encourage them to forget about their own bills. If you subsidize life, your life will be demanded in return. To love someone more that you love yourself, is to accept slavery in the name of love.
@Jacob2Israel I am sorry, I agree with most of what you said, but Ayn Rand has explicitly stated that she finds moral judgment based upon faith highly immoral, and that good moral judgment can only exist by accepting reason (logic) as ones only absolute governing principle and doing what you, individually and as a consequence of your own thinking, find to be the most right. That is in no way preaching the Bible, let alone the doctrine of any of the Abrahamic religions.
@XanKage i don't think she got into those details in this video, maybe i was hasty in my judgment, but yeah that sounds like she would say that, nice catch ; )
Next time any of you speaks with regard to Objectivism can you just do yourself a favor and referance the Ayn Rand Lexicon for specific concepts or OPAR for overviews of the philosophy before you go and make yoursleves sound like morons who have no clue about what they are talking about? Thanks.
I wonder what this lady thought about advertising and propaganda. Surely that goes against the concept of a free-minded individual if you’re pushed to make certain choices which don’t originate from the self.
@Vindigary Of course I agree there is no physical threat or any form of intimidation but I just don't think she considered other aspects of human development, for example she has no consideration for different soci-economic background or the even the intelligence that an individual being in naturally endowed with. I just think her way of thinking is very rigid, and gives hardly any room for interpretation....
It really seems Liberals have no clue what is Freedom and LIBERTY. Because they have never thought about it. I assure you there is no Liberty or Freedom to found in making government a Parent, Dictator or King. Libs probably get confused because they only know the freedom and liberty of a child and reject taking responsibility for themselves Politicians of every strip are more then happy to make themselves your parent. With every boo boo Libs cry for mommy and daddy to fix it.
I don't care how anyone tries to spin it, the USA is an example of the greatest model in Government. It has become broke not because it didn't work but because of lack of education by the federal gov. Kids are taught socialism in public schools and now everyone is looking for the government for the answers. The greatest advancements in the country were no provided by the government they were created by individuals. Ayn Rand is dead on !
@Galtline14 The USA worked just fine for 50 years. The first year the debt grew faster than the GDP was 1982 conincidentally also the 1st year taxes on the rich went under 70% and deregulation started. The Reagan model of capitalism is just as much a failure as communism and ppl are too brainwashed and indoctrinated to see the facts.
@szatmar666 It sounds like you are brain washed into thinking some type of share the wealth model works. Its never worked in the History of the world and will never work. The bottom line is some people work and others don't. Its time to start saying no to the non workers.
@Galtline14 The US capitalist system set up after 1929 was not "share the wealth" and it worked just fine until the 1980s because it was based on free market competition and meritocracy. The one set up by free market fundamentalists you support is based on debt and unearned monopoly privilege.
It sounds like you are just ignoring what I actually said and giving me a boilerplate talking point instead.
@szatmar666 I am a talking point ! LOL I have no faith in either side to find an answer. We shall fail in another 200 years when our pop has risen by 1000 times. There will be no white man and everyone will be holding out their hand. I am glad will be long gone.
@Galtline14 I think you are just confused: millions of people who watched TV and listened to radio, read papers in the communist block were afraid of fictitious threats because they were conditioned to in order to inhibit their common sense.
Common sense right now says that whatever the US is doing in terms of regulations, taxes trade policy etc doesn't work as it used to before the 1980s. I am sorry you are too blind to see this simple reality.
I say some regulations are good while others are bad.
Chile earthquake was hundreds of times stronger than Haiti earthquake but Haiti earthquake made hundreds of thousands of victims while Chile Earthquake made less than 1000 victims thanks to very strict building regulations from Chile.
Of course. That's because regulations are a cornerstone of free markets in a capitalist system. Failure of US markets after broadband deregulation: another example.
The Rand/Reagan crowd is attacking bedrock principles of the same free market system that they pretend to support and millions are just nodding and walking into a precipice because their answers are emotional, tribal and it appeals to the basic human desire to blame "outsiders" for everything.
@Galtline14 "I don't care how anyone tries to spin it, the USA is an example of the greatest model in Government"
USA is an example of the WORST model of Government. US Government is one of the most corrupt governments among developed countries. Crony capitalism and corruption ruined US economy.Sweden, Denmark and Norway are a mixture of capitalism and socialism, they have a higher living standard and they are not bankrupt like US and they are the least corrupt countries in the world
She sounds as she is suffocating. Maybe it's the Black Hole which has formed inside her which sucks out the rest of Life. A Black Hole is the fall into nothingness normally it's matter, here it seems it is caused by the weight of wrong evil ideas. The background noise is the revolting universe. Life is the model of cooperation ! Her's is: Why should i have childrens ? It's nonsense it's altruism, childrens are weak why should I care for them, instead I can rob them from others who are foolish.
All of our problems in government would be forever gone if they didn't have the tax dollars to spend. Here is pretty complex theory. Let people keep all of their money, and if you don't have any get up off your ass and get a job.
@Galtline14 No taxes?! No country has ever tried that. The reason: it doesn't work. Some Eastern European countries like Romania and Hungary are doing flat taxation experiments right now. They will collapse in 5-10 years with people in bread lines. I will not enjoy it because that's my people we are talking about. All these fake conservative ideas about small gov and no taxation are a pipe dream like communism: they can never work in real life cause they contradict capitalism 101.
@szatmar666 Romania and Hungary are trying flat tax now because health care is about to collapse their country and they don't have any other options. Your people don't have a chance not because they fail to implement a flat tax but because they have been under socialist rule. Everyone talks about how great Europe is yet we have people from all over waiting to get to the USA. Communism is not a pipe dream it took down Russia and they are now going through their gangster days as Capitalist.
Keep Your Government Hands Off My Medicare as the tea party blue hair anti-government medical care puts it. Ayn Rand was a hypocrite 1st class,she smoked 2 packs a day,and in the end died of lung cancer , you as a tax payer paid the fat ass medical bill.
She speaks of being opposed to canibals, yet she glorifies people destroying other peoples lives....and the crowd aplauds her. If I were in here audience, I would keep a set of eyes on my back to make sure that someone didnt steal my wallet and thrust a dagger into my back.
@truthwilloutallways - Actually I have ran a few businesses. 3 of them actually. One of them I got tired of going to court to make people pay me, so I pulled out of it in the black. The second is when the housing market crashed and I lost my ass. The third I am currently in the black, but business is slow. I have 6 years of higher education and make quite a bit of money. What I said is true, these Rand worshippers are canibals.
@Galtline14 - You are a fool if you think you can actually trust people like this. I have done business with people who think like Rand and they were the best liars and the biggest back stabbers. Their word meant nothing, but they damn sure expected you to keep your end of the bargain. They spoke of breaking the law to make money and tried to make me a patsy in their money grab schemes. Thankfully I was smart enough to not fall for most of their games or break the law.
@cosmicforums Well I am like this and I have never cheated anyone in my life. Not every business is going to be ethical but that doesn't mean all business are unethical. You sound like you need a shrink.
@Galtline14 - and as always, you have to insult every single time. Every single time is an insult. Yet you want me to take your word thet you are not a back stabber like the pack of wolves that was appluading this woman who would probably sell her own children into slavery for prophet. You'll get yours soon. Someday you will come across someone more devious than you, and that day you will regret believing in the words of the monster on this video.
@cosmicforums Do you know that Christianity is correct? The world around us reveals that G-d DOES exist, and the historical evidence reveals that Jesus Christ really did come to this earth and there is overwhelming evidence that Jesus Christ really did physically rise from the dead. Jesus is coming again and the signs of the end times that were foretold in the Bible are coming to pass.
@Galtline14 - Anyone who aligns themselves under Ayn Rand should not be trusted. I have on every occasion of trying to work with these types of people had to keep my eyes on my back. Why would you trust someone who thinks its okay to let disabled people and old people to die if they cant help themselves? Why would you trust someone who celebrates stealing from the poor and giving to the rich? Ayn Rand worshippers are cruel, greedy, and couldnt care less about you.
@cosmicforums How do you plan to resolve the problem of some people being more fit then others. How do you intend to make everyone the same? Empower government dictators to rule and decided? Maybe a King who's word is that of god. Folks like you are empowering the most dangerous of all entities, government. Why do folks like you believe government is all knowing, wise and benevolent? All of human history would prove you wrong.
@HawkNightDragon - Look dude. Please do EXACTLY like John Galt did. Pack your shit up and leave society. Dont help it at all. Stop the motor dude, I encourage you to do your strike. As far as empowering govts and dangerous tyrants, I am an Anarchist. If you are so smart, then WHY did you make the fatal mistake of assumption? Anyways, please, by all means, be like John Galt. go on strike and leave our society. We will try to get by without you as much as possible.
There is little difference between your worship of government and those who worshiped at the alter of the church. The church you hate so much. I'm actually trying to make a deeper point but you appear to be a out sighted person as opposed to insightful. Obviously you can no more understand what I'm saying no more then you can understand Ayn Rand's points. If you simply look at the surface of what she and I are saying? Then I can completely understand why you get confused.
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences.
The spirit of encroachment tends to consolidate the powers of all the departments in one, and thus to create whatever the form of government, a real despotism. A just estimate of that love of power, and proneness to abuse it, which predominates in the human heart is sufficient to satisfy us of the truth of this position... George Washington
The biggest difference between you and me? You are looking for and creating excuses for government to continue plundering the citizens money. I am not. Instead of looking to government and demanding they behave in a fiscally responsible manner? You simply want to empower government to confiscate more money using what ever force to do so. Once again I suspect you hold this veiw because your dependent on government in some manner.
Apparently Liberal Democrats do believe altruism gives them license and moral authority to plunder and steal from anyone they please. As long as its done in the name of altruism any atrocity government commits is acceptable to them. Most Democrats seem to have no clue why the Constitution of the Untied States was written. But that doesn’t matter altruism trumps the Constitution.
@HawkNightDragon LOL! Both republicans and dems R saying the other side is "immoral" because it's taking away someone else's money. Repubs say the gov is taking away money because of taxes, dems r saying the rich are taking money out of their workers' pockets.
Propaganda makes ppl think econ 101 is about morality. Sorry, it is not! Simply put since taxes went under 70% and finance got deregulated in the 80s-90s the US is growing its GDP on borrowed money. supply-side FAILED!
@szatmar666 Capitalism is not a function of government. Capitalism has failed because America is becoming more of a Communist nation. We have moved away from capitalism to communism. That can hardly be called a failure of capitalism when our government has turned into a communist government. Aided by people who worship at the alter of government just like people did who worshiped at the alter of religious institutions.
@HawkNightDragon I don't know what "capitalism is a function of" and frankly I don't give a flying F. What I do know is that economic policies changed in the 1980s in very specific ways that's well documented and that's when the US economy starting its downward spiral in terms of measurable econ stats such as debt/GDP ratio and middle class income. The rest about "government" and communism and the like sounds like a crock of bull that has no baring to reality.
@szatmar666 America has become completely detached from it's Constitution. Your probably not aware of this... but just like America tries to extend its influence and its form of government around the world subversively during the cold war. Other countries try to promote their form of government in America by way of subversion. What you see as a failure of Capitalism is actually a victory of Communism and Socialism.
@HawkNightDragon So Ronald Reagan who's policies grew the debt for the first time since WW2 was a tool of the communists?! LOL! You really sound like a crackpot: what you are talking about has no relations to reality and facts whatsoever. Accusing me of being a communist "tool" while you are parroting some obscure conspiracy theory you probably heard on AM talk radio or some website is telling of what's really wrong in America: ppl like U who know stuff that just ain't true.
America doesn’t have a King. At least its not suppose to have a King. But thanks to folks like you power is slowly and surely moving into the hands of a single man. Who ever that maybe sitting in the Presidency. The Founders of America had no love of government but understood it was a necessary evil. I think George Washington described it best when he said "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master".
@HawkNightDragon WOW! So poor Ronnie Reagan and the rest of the poor american elites were watching helplessly as devious communist infiltrators like myself are "somehow" using their superpowers over the Constitution to cause the debt/GDP ratio and the trade balance to go haywire and there is not a thing they could do to fix it for 30 years cause they have no FBI CIA US military etc, they are on their own. LOL! I really need some of that good stuff you must be smoking, buddy!
@szatmar666 No it doesn’t take Super Powers..... it takes stupidity among a majority of people. Actually your one of the very few people I've come across that I believe holds their view for some other reason then stupidity. That’s why I started talking to you. If George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson etc. were complicacy nuts? I'm proud to be counted among them.
@HawkNightDragon If the american elites were such victims in this how did a man like Mitt Romney make millions while the country was bleeding cash in the 80s?! Or is the likely republican candidate to the WH also a "communist infiltrator"?!
@szatmar666 So why do you seek to empower them even more? Folks like myself understand the danger unchecked government can produce and I no more seek to empower Romney then Obama. But, way to many people (especially Liberal Democrats) see the federal government as the expert in all matters, as always completely altruistic, neutral and benevolent in all matters. That how folks viewed the Church back in the day. You are making a big mistake. That’s what Mrs. Rand is trying to explain.
@HawkNightDragon Was Ike a liberal democrat?! All I am saying is to start taxing the rich at 90% like he did and restore the form of capitalism that built the country for 50 years after the great depression. You pretend I am saying something else, but I have my posts here to back me up. You are the one who's supporting a foreign ideology from a russian lady who didn't know capitalism if it bit her in the ass.
@szatmar666 Your idea to send more money to government? To me it sounds like giving more heroin to a drug addict. Im not willing to send them a single penny. I am not willing to allow them to raise taxes a single penny on anyone, anywhere for any reason. Not until they prove they can be trusted with that penny. If these were principle fugal and honorable people? They would not ask for more. So far I have seen nothing.
@HawkNightDragon You have seen nothing because you deliberately have chosen to ignore facts that are inconvenient for the dogmas you embrace. I have shown plenty of facts that prove that taxrates and regulations before the 80s worked better than the ones after. You just chosen to ignore them and in that respect you behave like a good communist: go blindly with the party doctrine even if it's leading to a precipice and there are plenty of facts contradicting it.
@szatmar666 Your apparently dependent on government in some manner. Sorry dude.... I'm not in favor of giving a drug addict more dope. If the drug addict needs a fix he'll have to look into his own pocket. Everything I've talked about is rooted in reality and facts. The United States government does not have a revenue problem. It has a spending and waste problem.
@szatmar666 Any Rand is absolutely correct. Your objection to the "rich" is not rooted in altruism. It is rooted in hatred and jealousy. You don’t even see that your causing the very things you claim to hate. You keep stripping people of thier money and cronyism is only going to increase. Eventually YOU will have no liberty or freedom.
@HawkNightDragon your responses are full of self serving lies: you don't have the common decency to address my arguments directly so you ignore what I said and instead put words in my mouth and pretend you are up against the strawman u made up and that you love to hate: the dependent welfare queen that was made up by conservative propagandists so that brainwashed little serfs like you don't think too much about the damage that's been done to capitalism the last 30 years.
@szatmar666 A four trillion dollar budget and you think its not enough. I'm incredibly shocked the budget is over one trillion. For some reason you seem believe government can not overspend and is completely responsible. I suspect you are dependent on government in some manner. If this is true you are as venal and licentious as any business man. The business man seeks to empower themselves by their own merit . You seek to empower yourself with the full force and authority of government.
@HawkNightDragon Again: you keep changing the topic to stuff that I never talked about. STOP LYING ABOUT WHAT I SAID! Just answer this: was Eisenhower a communist?! If not what's wrong with his economic policies?!
@szatmar666 It's a little hard to explain in this tiny forum. To show the GDP to gross revenues would take more time then I care to spend. You wouldn’t listen anyway and it would be a waste of time. Suffice to say Government spending is about to reach 100% of the entire GDP of the United States. Then no matter how much you tax the citizens? It will never be enough. Then it's bankruptcy time... just like Greece.
@HawkNightDragon The reason the US taxed the rich at 70%+ for 50 years wasn't simply to raise revenues but most importantly to keep money in the main street economy. Taxing the rich ensures that they leave their money in their business instead of taking it out of the pockets of their workers and diverting it to Wall Street. Was the USA in 1956 Greece?! Why do you feel this need to be so blatantly dishonest and come up with childish strawman arguments?!
@HawkNightDragon BTW, whoever is marking your posts as spam I assure you it's not me and I would appreciate if he respected your free speech rights on this site and ceased doing it
@szatmar666 I just looked it up. The GDP for America is a little over 14 trillion dollars for 2011 with 3% growth. Our debt is $15,260,645,560,900. Total spending for States and Federal is a little over 7 trillion dollars. The unfunded liabilities of America are a little over 117 trillion dollars. That’s promises that can't be fulfilled. O here's a good one--> Gross Debt to GDP ratio is 100.8% So I stand corrected. It's already gone over 100%.
@HawkNightDragon I know that, in fact I posted most of these numbers myself in this very discussion! So what's your point?! I just said mine: tax the rich, allow more unions and in general go back to solid capitalism that built this country under both republicans and democrats after the great depression! Your answer is more taxcuts and deregulation that caused all of this mess to begin with.
@szatmar666 If you tax 90% of businessmen's money? The GDP will drop drastically. Nobody will want to open a business in America. You will be increasing the problem drastically. Yes they may move to China. I suppose you could build a wall around America to keep people in like Germany had and in N. Korea.
@HawkNightDragon how do you know that?! You are making this stuff up. In fact that's EXACTLY my point: taxes were above 70% for 50 years and none of the nonsense your side is claiming would happen ever did.
@szatmar666 I'm looking at the chart I like the 7% rate in 1913. I'm telling ya the tax revenue may of gone down but spending was never reduced Of course this will cause a problem. Some politicians will even start wars as an excuse to not lower spending. I really think you have the wagon in front of the horse. You should be demanding responsible spending then maybe we can think about raising taxes. Today's politicians are making themselves filthy rich by insider trading on their own legislation
@HawkNightDragon 7% was just for 3 years it went right up to 70%+ and stayed there until republicans cut it in 1922-25 to 25%. Then we know what happened and taxes went back to 70%+ for 50 years. Taxing the rich has little to do with generating government revenues. You tax activities that you want to discourage. What we want to discourage right now is the rich taking almost 100% of the profits, deny the wages their workers have worked for and divert that money to Wall Street.
@szatmar666 That 50 year period you talk about where the top marginal rate was 70% to 90%?Isn't that the same period of time America changed from a industrial power house to a service society?Today we buy most of our industrial goods from other nations. What makes you think anyone is going to just lay there and be raped. Especially business men.They will retire and not use the money they already accumulated or they will move their business to China. New people will not want to take their place.
@HawkNightDragon "Isn't that the same period of time America changed from a industrial power house to a service society?" No, that's the last 30 years. In the 50 years before Reagan the US was an industrial economy. The "service economy" is the supply side fraud I was talking about: there is no real economy without industry. The business men you talk of perpetrated a fraud on the american people and drunk their own coolaid. Most of the last 30 yrs the GDP grew on borrowed $.
@szatmar666 How old are you? Because I remember when gas prices went from 25 cents a gallon to over a dollar during Carter's Presidency and inflation was over 20% with no end in sight. Carter pretty much told us we must learn to live with it. Everyone thought we were doomed. You want to talk about someone who inherited a pile a crap from his predecessor? It was Ronald Reagan. You just wait. I predict the inflation rate is going to shoot off the chart again in the middle of this summer.
@HawkNightDragon Carter hasn't borrowed a penny from the next generation. during his 4 years in office he netted 10 million jobs & the debt to GDP ratio went down from 36% to 32%. In other words the economy grew faster than the debt every year he was in office. He told the ppl that green energy is a necessity for the US. Reagan ignored that and proceeded to grow the economy on borrowed money with oil bought from the middle east instead. We'll pay for that 4 geberations 2 come!
@szatmar666 Well I don’t know what to say to ya now. Your saying Carter was the best President ever. All of government money is barrowed, taxed, confiscated or stolen. You need to learn how government budgets work because its not like normal citizens budgets. Let's pretend for a second that Carter didn’t barrow any money? You must really hate that Obama has barrowed 2.7 trillion from China more money then was spent on WWII. What's your excuse for this? Let me guess.Bush did it so it makes it OK.
@HawkNightDragon I don't have any excuses for Obama and I wish your side was as honest about republicans. But the fact is that I have no excuses for the electorate who punished a guy like Carter who told them as it is and put in office a slick salesman like Reagan who told them what they wanted to hear:" you can have your cake and eat it too." After that EVERY president jumped on a tax cutting deregulating and borrowing 4 foreign oil bandwagon & ppl loved it. So blame yourself 2
@szatmar666 The way I'd like to see the budget problem resolved? Close all nonessential services of government indefinitely until the budget is balanced. No raising of taxes or barrowing. The citizens have sacrificed enough. I don’t know if you’ve noticed government has sacrificed NOTHING! You don’t seem to understand. Some people in government will create these problems knowing folks like you will demand your freedom and liberty be taken away.
@HawkNightDragon your theories about how to solve america's problems are ill informed and as I have proven many times here against the principles of sound capitalism that built the USA to begin with. That's because you are an ideolog hell bent on defending dogma even when there is overwhelming evidence that suggests the implications are horrible for the country. You will stick to your guns like many EE communists did until collapse & it's evident that the ideology is a fraud
@szatmar666 Ill Informed? No I'm playing hardball. We have politicians of all strips who are in love with themselves. They never look to themselves as a problem. Spending has never gone down. Government under Obama now consumes 25% of GDP. I heard a person ask "What do they want? 100% of GDP?" My answer to that question is "ABSOLUTELY" If they could government would take 100%.
@HawkNightDragon You proved in your posts here that you are an ideologue: you call the return to 50 years of sound capitalism between 1932-1981 a "submission to my demand" of "giving up freedom". Your whole language reeks of a rigid dogmatic thinking reminiscent of communism.
@szatmar666 In 1940 government consumed 7% of GDP. Today under Obama's leadership its over 25%. It is your ideology leading people to slavery and servitude. Yes I do have ideas... like the protection of Freedom and Liberty. The biggest difference between my ideas and your "sides" is my notions of liberty and freedom are those of an adult where I'm responsible for myself As opposed to your "sides" idea of Liberty like that of a child meaning less responsibility.
@szatmar666 Your "side" desire to make government our parent.... I do not. You have some strange notions of Liberty and Freedom because I assure you... you will not find it with more government control. When I first started posting I knew what I was dealing with.... your not talking to a useful idiot. Obama has tried to buy our Freedom and Liberty for $40. Mine is not for sell. I bet your scrambling to sell. Your ideology of slavery is going to be defeated.
@szatmar666 Let me explain my strategy. It cuts out all the BS and liars. If power is flowing away from me and into the hands of incompetent government agents control? It’s a bad thing. If power and control of my life is flowing back to me? It’s a good thing. So how in hell could you believe that is a communist ideology unless your delusional or purposely seek to deceive like a skilled subversive?
@HawkNightDragon "Let me explain my strategy. It cuts out all the BS " On the contrary. What you are saying IS BS simply because it's pure speculation. In contrast what U said about gov being 25% of GDP today and 7% in 1940 is the sort of thing we call FACT. Of course you are wrong on both the number & your understanding of econ 101. In 1940 total outlays as a % of GDP was a historic low of 10% but the average is 15-20%. Today it's 25%. NO BIG DIFF. It's unrelated to my point.
@szatmar666 You do understand government budgeting does not work like a household budget? Every dept. in government has no incentive to save money. Quite the opposite. If they do not spend every single dime allotted for that year? They can not ask for more and they may have a smaller budget next year. It is a big screw up among government agencies to spend every penny. Government is not suppose to EVER have a surplus. Surpluses occur for one reason... over taxation.
@HawkNightDragon I don't disagree that there is waste in government and I think no one wants government just to collect taxes and sit on the surplus. I think the way real countries operate is that they try to grow their economy much faster than their debt so that revenues will cover expenses even if rates are low simply because in a growing economy more people make more money and thus pay more taxes AS A GROUP not as an individual.
@HawkNightDragon Your government spending (outlays) as a % of GDP can be 90% if your gov spending pays off in terms of revenue and GDP growth. In other words if your government is doing smart investments your GDP will grow as a result and your debt will shrink as a % of GDP. In fact there are small countries with state owned energy and shipping corporations such as Finland where the GOV is a large % of GDP yet they don't owe debt to anybody.
@szatmar666 Government revenues in Finland are 50% of GDP but their debt is only 40% of the GDP while the US debt is at almost 100%. What's even worse in the US is private sector debt is 250% of GDP. Finland's is 60%. Finland went through their own crisis when the SU collapsed and had the same debt levels the USA has today: they raised interest rates nationalized the largest banks and invested in manufacturing & exports. Opposite of what you hear from Ayn Rand fanatics here.
@madashelldude Even Switzerland which is consistently ranked as the most free market system in the world with much higher standard of living for the middle class and only 38% GDP national debt has a government tax revenue that's 30% of GDP. Only Singapore has a lower level of effective taxation than the US and it's a much more regulated economy. This idea to take random numbers out of context and just throw them in your opponents face without any deeper context is just childish.
@szatmar666 The biggest point I'm trying to make with you is, to just strip the citizens of more money without demanding a show of responsible behavior from government is more then foolish If government closed 75% of its operations? I wouldn’t even notice except for a lack of oppression. I have a feeling you would be devastated Yes some businessmen are very venal and licentious but you are equally as licentious expect you seek to empower the entity that is infinitely more dangerous. government.
@szatmar666 Politicians in DC have told you 117 trillion dollars worth of lies yet you still want to believe them. I'm not on a side when comes to these liars in Washington DC. One of the biggest difference between today and yesteryear is Government was not consuming so much of the GDP. I've been looking at the numbers. Government is consuming close to 40% of GDP right now and you want to empower them more? That’s insane.... do you really know what it is to free and have liberty?
@szatmar666 You seem to not be aware. Rich folks and government are in bed together. When you empower one? You empower the other. I seek to strip them both of power and empower myself. Because you see... I'm on my side. But you on the contrary seek to give unlimited power to the most dangerous of the two and have no conditions or demands for responsible behavior with the money. I have a lot of demands for responsible behavior before I'm willing to see them take a penny from anyone.
@mrgetrealpeople Do you understand Obama was broke and could barely afford to pay for his house before he got into the business of being a governmental conman? Now he's a millionaire The business of government is good and getting better thanks to a whole bunch of foolish voters. Yes rich folks and government are in bed together and its always been that way and always will be that way. But what's most dangerous is when government becomes the sole authority and control.
@mrgetrealpeople Libs are very foolishly placing all power and authority in the reach of a single man and one day someone is going to grab it. Libs are cutting their own throat and they don’t realize it and I believe they never will. You don’t know who's in our future. But extremely foolish people are placing absolute power and control at their feet. Stupidity is wrong word to descibe such a foolish action. The founders of America sought to separate powers for a reason and Libs are undoing it.
@szatmar666 You want to discourage businessmen from taking profits and you want to do this by giving it to government? Seriously what makes you think the men and women in government are less venal and licentious then the businessman. You are jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. It's my belief most corrupt businessmen are just following governments omnipotent example.
@HawkNightDragon You have to quote what I said EXACTLY that makes you think I want to discourage anybody. Again: if you were honest for a second you would acknowledge that all I am saying is BRING BACK THE FORM OF CAPITALISM THAT BUILT AMERICA FOR 50 YEARS AFTER THE GREAT DEPRESSION. I don't support any taxrates, labor policies or trade policies, industrial policies and regulations that are not STRICTLY off the shelf of a well proven capitalist system.
@HawkNightDragon In fact your side is the one that's advocating for a radical destruction of sound capitalist principles and replacing it with the type of casino capitalism and condo flipping that's giving a bad name to capitalism and that's been going on since the 80s.
@szatmar666 I wish I could post charts in here. The one I'm looking at shows spending and revenue going up. But spending shooting off the chart like a rocket.
@szatmar666 How could I be going along with the "Party Doctrine" when I don’t want to fund the "Party"? It is you who desires to give "The Party" unlimited funds to keep partying and you don’t even demand that they be responsible with the money. There is little difference between the two political parties in Washington. They are both taking us in the same direction. One is take us there slower then the other.
@szatmar666 I have seen no attempt on the part of government to be frugal, principled or responsible. In my view to send them a single penny would be an act of extreme foolishness. By the way..... This short clip of Mrs. Rand is first thing I heard her say. Other then this I know nothing about her.
@szatmar666 It is very clear by your commits that you're a very useful tool in the process of moving America away from Capitalism and free markets to a Communist system. That’s what Ayn Rand is talking about. Altruism is not always a good thing. Especially when folks like you are empowering government to put a gun in people's faces and force them to be altruistic.
@HawkNightDragon LOL! Both republicans and dems R saying the other side is "immoral" because it's taking away someone else's money. Repubs say the gov is taking away money because of taxes, dems r saying the rich are taking money out of their workers' pockets.
Propaganda makes ppl think econ 101 is about morality. Sorry, it is not! Simply put since taxes went under 70% and finance got deregulated in the 80s-90s the US is growing its GDP on borrowed money. supply-side FAILED!
szatmar666 I did not intend to put words in your mouth. I believe that the best system is Capitalism, where all have equal opportunity to succeed, and fail. Ayn Rand herself said that Capitalism has not been tried anywhere for many years, the last place being Hong Kong.
The last 10 years in America have been disastrous for everyone, even for those who have profited from the profligate spending.
Socialism penalises success for the sake of those who are not allowed to fail. There goes freedom.
@BrianWheatley69 It's more like the last 30 years have been disastrous. Again: tha debt was $994 billion in 1981. Today it's $15 trillion. Just under Reagan/Bush it QUADRUPLED! As someone who actually lived in communism and had to read Marx in HS & college I am amazed how much irrelevant BS is being said about "capitalism" "socialism" "marxism" by ppl who have no clue. The econ problems in the US today R good old fashioned corruption & cronyism EXACTLY what brought down USSR
And who can doubt that it will lead to the worst disorders when minds created free by God are compelled to submit slavishly to an outside will? When we are told to deny our senses and subject them to the whim of others? When people devoid of whatsoever competence are made judges over experts and are granted authority to treat them as they please? These are the novelties which are apt to bring about the ruin of commonwealths and the subversion of the state...Galileo Galilei
Ayn Rand was one evil, idiotic, perverse bitch. She was merciless, sexually deviant, godless, bigotted, stuck at the arrested development stage of the infant, which informs her entire weltanschauung. And she is the hero, icon, the deity of modern day republicans.
It is highly amusing to see the blatant irrationality and projection blaring through Ayn Rand's words. She claims that other groups fear and hate what she is opposing. Is that so? That is not what is observed. Rather, she quite clearly shows intense fear and hatred herself. Ayn Rand was scarred by the Soviet Union, and she was never able to shake free from its shackles. No matter how far she ran, how much she philosophized, or how much she aged. It is tragic, really.
@Melthornal she's what I call a "reverse bolshevik" revolutionary. She's a product of communist Russia, I know the type well: she's projecting her own anxieties, hatred and fear on her political opponents. Something you can see on today's conservatives who will call you a "communist" every time you dare to challenge their dogmatic beliefs using facts and western style deliberation. "Debate and reason" R western values, randians don't believe in those: they just co-opt the language.
@szatmar666 And who can doubt that it will lead to the worst disorders when minds created free by God are compelled to submit slavishly to an outside will? When we are told to deny our senses and subject them to the whim of others? When people devoid of whatsoever competence are made judges over experts and are granted authority to treat them as they please? These are the novelties which are apt to bring about the ruin of commonwealths and the subversion of the state...Galileo Galilei
@HawkNightDragon Of course Galileo was talking about science being subjugated by the superstitious religious institutions of the 16th century and Rand was talking about rich people being "subjugated" by laws that prevent them from being able to loot the economy at the expense of modern society: these are 2 different things. The ownership class's ability to keep as much of the profits as they want and ignore their workers is destructive to capitalism as proven since 1981.
@szatmar666 Ayn Rand like Galileo was talking about being suppressed by people who have no idea what they are doing. "Superstitious" Religious institution do not hold exclusivity on suppression of thought or subjugation. If society always presumes that government is the expert in all matters soon we will have Nazi's marching down the street telling everyone what to do. If you give government the power to steal from individuals it will soon be after your liberty and freedom.
@szatmar666 You speak from the point of view that anyone who is a Capitalist is obviously greedy and perverse, while anyone who is poor is honest as the day is long. Greed is a human condition, not peculiar to Capitalists. If Rand was a "reverse" product of the Soviet Union, then she would have been a Christian.
Rand was flawed. She had no sense of humour. She DID think she was infallible!
Of course if man replaces God, then man becomes God. The question then is Which man?
@BrianWheatley69 U R putting words in my mouth. What I am ACTUALLY saying is that the USA had a pretty successful form of capitalism for 50 years after the great depression strictly based on economic stats. This is not an ideological observation, IT'S a FACT: in 1955 under a republican taxrates for the rich were a PUNITIVE 91% and the economy grew faster than the debt EVERY year. Since 1981 those taxes are lower and $14 of the $15 trillion debt was created under these low rates
@HawkNightDragon WHAT?! GALILEO?! what's in common between an irrational political zealot like Rand and a scientist persecuted by a bunch of irrational political zealots?! You people have a serious knack for spin.
Where do you get your facts, do make them up as you need them? You stated that...When taxes were high (after the great depression) the USA had the largest economic expansion the world has ever seen...the opposite is true. The unemployment rate in 1938 was 19%..and the only reason it went down in the 1940's was WW2, millions of people were put to work in making bombs and killing the enemy. Stop with the weed it is effecting the 3 brain cells you have left.
@dajisali1 Tax rates under Eisenhower were 91%, and they remained above 70% until 1981! My facts come from the budget of the USA, "Historical Tables" Section 7 and the IRS schedules. Top tax rates were cut in in 1921 from 73% to 56% and by 1929 to 24% then we know what happened on Wall Street. FDR raised taxes to 63% the day he took office and by 1944 they were at 94%. Under Kennedy it went from 91% to 70% and in 1981 to 40% & from 1982: the debt grew faster that the GDP!
What I find amazing in the US that a lot of ppl think they are entitled to their own facts & call u a commie if u point that out. It's a culture of bullshit. Contrast that to communist China pulling double digit econ growth for decades. The US just replaced a Harvard MBA with a Harvard lawyer and called it a change while you have exactly 2 scientists in Congress the rest are lawyers and other BS artists. In China most leaders R engineers and scientists & 1 lawyer in the politburo!
@szatmar666 I don't think it matters what your college degree is in: there are smart lawyers with common sense out there but it's absolutely true that the American electorate for a couple of decades now is sending increasingly anti-science reactionary people to office. Today Congress and the political class have very little regard for science, economics or experts. There is political reward for denying sound science and economics and that tells u the future direction I suppose.
@madashelldude Looks like what happened in the 20s was that most of the decade you had super low 25% top marginal tax rate and as a result a lot of untaxed money was floating around on the real-estate market and caused bubbles like the FL real estate bubble which brought down the market in 1929. Regardless of what were the causes however it is a FACT that 1929 happened after a decade of taxcuts and top rates were 24% at the moment of collapse. They were 70%+ for 50 years AFTER!
@madashelldude I assume this is a TYPO: "and in 1981 to 40%" in reality Reagan dropped it BY 40% TO 28%! Which is near Great Depression levels of taxation ;)
@szatmar666 yes, it is a typo, I like your summary, very clear and to the point: "FACT that 1929 happened after a decade of taxcuts and top rates were 24% at the moment of collapse. They were 70%+ for 50 years AFTER!" In fact the US was built up as a super power thanks to those 50 years and lost a lot of its economic power and industry in the last 30 years of historically low tax rates on investors while taxing middle and low income ppl more than ever.
@madashelldude Ok, I looked it up too. 2 technicalities: taxes went down from 91% to 70% under LBJ in 1964-65 not Kennedy and Reagan cut taxes to 50% in 1981 and to 28% in 1988 but I think technically that was GHWB since Reagan had Alzheimer's.
Your argument still stands: most of the debt was incurred during years when taxes were lower than 70%. I think that's probably a magic number to achieve balance between supply and demand, government and private sector in the US.
You know, if you had some brains you would be dangerous. You are obviously a public school graduate. You dont read what people say and you go out on tangents that dont make any sense. Good luck in your life, you are going to need it.
Income Taxes should be a Flat % of ALL income over $20,000. No "write-offs", No "shelters". Whether earned income, inheritance, Capital Gain, or Corporate Profits. The % would rise and fall to match expenditures. No more Deficits. People would catch on REAL fast as the Tax went up or down. Thousands of "Tax Attornies" would have to find productive employment. True Libertarians/Anarchists like Ayn Rand will always have a following. Simplify the system and it will virtually correct itself.
She said, "mystic" instead of "christian." Clever. I wonder what she thought of the "gospel of prosperity"? She was completely wrong about christianity; it's always been a force for the accumulation and concentration of wealth and power, not altrurism. America's founders answered her argument--laissez-faire doesn't work. The poor woman was wrong about everything and probably went to her grave thinking she was right.
TheForwardGaze 2 days ago
I'm in the middle of reading "The Fountainhead". It's an OK book.
benthejrporter 5 days ago
She is preaching the bible: love your fellow man AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF. You cannot love you fellow man MORE than you love your self, that would be a crime against your own skin. To love me more than you love yourself IS idealism gone to the extreme. To love someone more than you love yourself is to encourage them to forget about their own bills. If you subsidize life, your life will be demanded in return. To love someone more that you love yourself, is to accept slavery in the name of love.
Jacob2Israel 6 days ago
@Jacob2Israel I am sorry, I agree with most of what you said, but Ayn Rand has explicitly stated that she finds moral judgment based upon faith highly immoral, and that good moral judgment can only exist by accepting reason (logic) as ones only absolute governing principle and doing what you, individually and as a consequence of your own thinking, find to be the most right. That is in no way preaching the Bible, let alone the doctrine of any of the Abrahamic religions.
XanKage 5 days ago
@XanKage i don't think she got into those details in this video, maybe i was hasty in my judgment, but yeah that sounds like she would say that, nice catch ; )
Jacob2Israel 5 days ago
does anyone know where this speech was given... specifically?
rsbarrett4991 1 week ago
Altruism is a positive attitude from one soul towards the well-being of another, not a must neither a sacrifice.
S1L3nCe 1 week ago
Next time any of you speaks with regard to Objectivism can you just do yourself a favor and referance the Ayn Rand Lexicon for specific concepts or OPAR for overviews of the philosophy before you go and make yoursleves sound like morons who have no clue about what they are talking about? Thanks.
-An objectivist
mkloppel 2 weeks ago 2
I wonder what this lady thought about advertising and propaganda. Surely that goes against the concept of a free-minded individual if you’re pushed to make certain choices which don’t originate from the self.
philosophicalsceptic 2 weeks ago
@philosophicalsceptic Persuasion is not coercion. The individual still chooses to be persuaded or not.
Vindigary 2 weeks ago
@Vindigary Of course I agree there is no physical threat or any form of intimidation but I just don't think she considered other aspects of human development, for example she has no consideration for different soci-economic background or the even the intelligence that an individual being in naturally endowed with. I just think her way of thinking is very rigid, and gives hardly any room for interpretation....
philosophicalsceptic 2 weeks ago
@philosophicalsceptic Well said. Her thought process is too rigid and presumptive.
Vindigary 2 weeks ago
So if I lose an arm saving her daughter from a Pitbull I guess Im a fuckin idiot, right?
HedgehogRebellion 2 weeks ago
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It really seems Liberals have no clue what is Freedom and LIBERTY. Because they have never thought about it. I assure you there is no Liberty or Freedom to found in making government a Parent, Dictator or King. Libs probably get confused because they only know the freedom and liberty of a child and reject taking responsibility for themselves Politicians of every strip are more then happy to make themselves your parent. With every boo boo Libs cry for mommy and daddy to fix it.
HawkNightDragon 3 weeks ago
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HawkNightDragon 3 weeks ago
I don't care how anyone tries to spin it, the USA is an example of the greatest model in Government. It has become broke not because it didn't work but because of lack of education by the federal gov. Kids are taught socialism in public schools and now everyone is looking for the government for the answers. The greatest advancements in the country were no provided by the government they were created by individuals. Ayn Rand is dead on !
Galtline14 3 weeks ago
@Galtline14 The USA worked just fine for 50 years. The first year the debt grew faster than the GDP was 1982 conincidentally also the 1st year taxes on the rich went under 70% and deregulation started. The Reagan model of capitalism is just as much a failure as communism and ppl are too brainwashed and indoctrinated to see the facts.
szatmar666 3 weeks ago
@szatmar666 It sounds like you are brain washed into thinking some type of share the wealth model works. Its never worked in the History of the world and will never work. The bottom line is some people work and others don't. Its time to start saying no to the non workers.
Galtline14 3 weeks ago
@Galtline14 The US capitalist system set up after 1929 was not "share the wealth" and it worked just fine until the 1980s because it was based on free market competition and meritocracy. The one set up by free market fundamentalists you support is based on debt and unearned monopoly privilege.
It sounds like you are just ignoring what I actually said and giving me a boilerplate talking point instead.
szatmar666 3 weeks ago
@szatmar666 I am a talking point ! LOL I have no faith in either side to find an answer. We shall fail in another 200 years when our pop has risen by 1000 times. There will be no white man and everyone will be holding out their hand. I am glad will be long gone.
Galtline14 3 weeks ago
@Galtline14 I think you are just confused: millions of people who watched TV and listened to radio, read papers in the communist block were afraid of fictitious threats because they were conditioned to in order to inhibit their common sense.
Common sense right now says that whatever the US is doing in terms of regulations, taxes trade policy etc doesn't work as it used to before the 1980s. I am sorry you are too blind to see this simple reality.
szatmar666 3 weeks ago
@szatmar666 ok thank you for your wisdom it should come in handy today when I am dropping the kids off by the pool. Thanks
Galtline14 3 weeks ago
@szatmar666 I completely agree with you man !
Free market fundamentalists and facts don't mix.
An example: They oppose any kind of regulation.
I say some regulations are good while others are bad.
Chile earthquake was hundreds of times stronger than Haiti earthquake but Haiti earthquake made hundreds of thousands of victims while Chile Earthquake made less than 1000 victims thanks to very strict building regulations from Chile.
SuperThe86 3 weeks ago
Of course. That's because regulations are a cornerstone of free markets in a capitalist system. Failure of US markets after broadband deregulation: another example.
The Rand/Reagan crowd is attacking bedrock principles of the same free market system that they pretend to support and millions are just nodding and walking into a precipice because their answers are emotional, tribal and it appeals to the basic human desire to blame "outsiders" for everything.
szatmar666 3 weeks ago
@SuperThe86 Good argument. I think there has to be some balance somewhere.
HedgehogRebellion 2 weeks ago
@Galtline14 "I don't care how anyone tries to spin it, the USA is an example of the greatest model in Government"
USA is an example of the WORST model of Government. US Government is one of the most corrupt governments among developed countries. Crony capitalism and corruption ruined US economy.Sweden, Denmark and Norway are a mixture of capitalism and socialism, they have a higher living standard and they are not bankrupt like US and they are the least corrupt countries in the world
SuperThe86 3 weeks ago
She sounds as she is suffocating. Maybe it's the Black Hole which has formed inside her which sucks out the rest of Life. A Black Hole is the fall into nothingness normally it's matter, here it seems it is caused by the weight of wrong evil ideas. The background noise is the revolting universe. Life is the model of cooperation ! Her's is: Why should i have childrens ? It's nonsense it's altruism, childrens are weak why should I care for them, instead I can rob them from others who are foolish.
TPath1 3 weeks ago
@TPath1 Caring for children is altruistic only if they no value to you. But if they have no value, why did you bring them into the world?
fzqlcs 3 weeks ago
All of our problems in government would be forever gone if they didn't have the tax dollars to spend. Here is pretty complex theory. Let people keep all of their money, and if you don't have any get up off your ass and get a job.
Galtline14 3 weeks ago
@Galtline14 No taxes?! No country has ever tried that. The reason: it doesn't work. Some Eastern European countries like Romania and Hungary are doing flat taxation experiments right now. They will collapse in 5-10 years with people in bread lines. I will not enjoy it because that's my people we are talking about. All these fake conservative ideas about small gov and no taxation are a pipe dream like communism: they can never work in real life cause they contradict capitalism 101.
szatmar666 3 weeks ago
@szatmar666 Romania and Hungary are trying flat tax now because health care is about to collapse their country and they don't have any other options. Your people don't have a chance not because they fail to implement a flat tax but because they have been under socialist rule. Everyone talks about how great Europe is yet we have people from all over waiting to get to the USA. Communism is not a pipe dream it took down Russia and they are now going through their gangster days as Capitalist.
Galtline14 3 weeks ago
@Galtline14 I bet you are a retired government worker.
mrgetrealpeople 3 weeks ago
Keep Your Government Hands Off My Medicare as the tea party blue hair anti-government medical care puts it. Ayn Rand was a hypocrite 1st class,she smoked 2 packs a day,and in the end died of lung cancer , you as a tax payer paid the fat ass medical bill.
mrgetrealpeople 3 weeks ago
She speaks of being opposed to canibals, yet she glorifies people destroying other peoples lives....and the crowd aplauds her. If I were in here audience, I would keep a set of eyes on my back to make sure that someone didnt steal my wallet and thrust a dagger into my back.
What a truly dispicable person she was.
cosmicforums 1 month ago
@cosmicforums Faulty thinking. You can not be a business person nor self - supporting? Yes?
truthwilloutallways 1 month ago
@truthwilloutallways - Actually I have ran a few businesses. 3 of them actually. One of them I got tired of going to court to make people pay me, so I pulled out of it in the black. The second is when the housing market crashed and I lost my ass. The third I am currently in the black, but business is slow. I have 6 years of higher education and make quite a bit of money. What I said is true, these Rand worshippers are canibals.
cosmicforums 3 weeks ago
@cosmicforums You are a fool !
Galtline14 3 weeks ago
@Galtline14 - You are a fool if you think you can actually trust people like this. I have done business with people who think like Rand and they were the best liars and the biggest back stabbers. Their word meant nothing, but they damn sure expected you to keep your end of the bargain. They spoke of breaking the law to make money and tried to make me a patsy in their money grab schemes. Thankfully I was smart enough to not fall for most of their games or break the law.
cosmicforums 3 weeks ago
@cosmicforums Well I am like this and I have never cheated anyone in my life. Not every business is going to be ethical but that doesn't mean all business are unethical. You sound like you need a shrink.
Galtline14 3 weeks ago
@Galtline14 - and as always, you have to insult every single time. Every single time is an insult. Yet you want me to take your word thet you are not a back stabber like the pack of wolves that was appluading this woman who would probably sell her own children into slavery for prophet. You'll get yours soon. Someday you will come across someone more devious than you, and that day you will regret believing in the words of the monster on this video.
cosmicforums 3 weeks ago
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@cosmicforums Do you know that Christianity is correct? The world around us reveals that G-d DOES exist, and the historical evidence reveals that Jesus Christ really did come to this earth and there is overwhelming evidence that Jesus Christ really did physically rise from the dead. Jesus is coming again and the signs of the end times that were foretold in the Bible are coming to pass.
marionetemanJ 3 weeks ago
@cosmicforums Go hang out with your Occupy Wall St Friends. I am not asking you to take my word on anything, I honestly don't care. You are a fool !
Galtline14 3 weeks ago
@Galtline14 - Anyone who aligns themselves under Ayn Rand should not be trusted. I have on every occasion of trying to work with these types of people had to keep my eyes on my back. Why would you trust someone who thinks its okay to let disabled people and old people to die if they cant help themselves? Why would you trust someone who celebrates stealing from the poor and giving to the rich? Ayn Rand worshippers are cruel, greedy, and couldnt care less about you.
cosmicforums 3 weeks ago
@cosmicforums How do you plan to resolve the problem of some people being more fit then others. How do you intend to make everyone the same? Empower government dictators to rule and decided? Maybe a King who's word is that of god. Folks like you are empowering the most dangerous of all entities, government. Why do folks like you believe government is all knowing, wise and benevolent? All of human history would prove you wrong.
HawkNightDragon 3 weeks ago
@HawkNightDragon - Look dude. Please do EXACTLY like John Galt did. Pack your shit up and leave society. Dont help it at all. Stop the motor dude, I encourage you to do your strike. As far as empowering govts and dangerous tyrants, I am an Anarchist. If you are so smart, then WHY did you make the fatal mistake of assumption? Anyways, please, by all means, be like John Galt. go on strike and leave our society. We will try to get by without you as much as possible.
cosmicforums 3 weeks ago
There is little difference between your worship of government and those who worshiped at the alter of the church. The church you hate so much. I'm actually trying to make a deeper point but you appear to be a out sighted person as opposed to insightful. Obviously you can no more understand what I'm saying no more then you can understand Ayn Rand's points. If you simply look at the surface of what she and I are saying? Then I can completely understand why you get confused.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
The spirit of encroachment tends to consolidate the powers of all the departments in one, and thus to create whatever the form of government, a real despotism. A just estimate of that love of power, and proneness to abuse it, which predominates in the human heart is sufficient to satisfy us of the truth of this position... George Washington
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
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The biggest difference between you and me? You are looking for and creating excuses for government to continue plundering the citizens money. I am not. Instead of looking to government and demanding they behave in a fiscally responsible manner? You simply want to empower government to confiscate more money using what ever force to do so. Once again I suspect you hold this veiw because your dependent on government in some manner.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
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Apparently Liberal Democrats do believe altruism gives them license and moral authority to plunder and steal from anyone they please. As long as its done in the name of altruism any atrocity government commits is acceptable to them. Most Democrats seem to have no clue why the Constitution of the Untied States was written. But that doesn’t matter altruism trumps the Constitution.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon LOL! Both republicans and dems R saying the other side is "immoral" because it's taking away someone else's money. Repubs say the gov is taking away money because of taxes, dems r saying the rich are taking money out of their workers' pockets.
Propaganda makes ppl think econ 101 is about morality. Sorry, it is not! Simply put since taxes went under 70% and finance got deregulated in the 80s-90s the US is growing its GDP on borrowed money. supply-side FAILED!
szatmar666 1 month ago
@szatmar666 Capitalism is not a function of government. Capitalism has failed because America is becoming more of a Communist nation. We have moved away from capitalism to communism. That can hardly be called a failure of capitalism when our government has turned into a communist government. Aided by people who worship at the alter of government just like people did who worshiped at the alter of religious institutions.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon I don't know what "capitalism is a function of" and frankly I don't give a flying F. What I do know is that economic policies changed in the 1980s in very specific ways that's well documented and that's when the US economy starting its downward spiral in terms of measurable econ stats such as debt/GDP ratio and middle class income. The rest about "government" and communism and the like sounds like a crock of bull that has no baring to reality.
szatmar666 1 month ago
@szatmar666 America has become completely detached from it's Constitution. Your probably not aware of this... but just like America tries to extend its influence and its form of government around the world subversively during the cold war. Other countries try to promote their form of government in America by way of subversion. What you see as a failure of Capitalism is actually a victory of Communism and Socialism.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon So Ronald Reagan who's policies grew the debt for the first time since WW2 was a tool of the communists?! LOL! You really sound like a crackpot: what you are talking about has no relations to reality and facts whatsoever. Accusing me of being a communist "tool" while you are parroting some obscure conspiracy theory you probably heard on AM talk radio or some website is telling of what's really wrong in America: ppl like U who know stuff that just ain't true.
szatmar666 1 month ago
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HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
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America doesn’t have a King. At least its not suppose to have a King. But thanks to folks like you power is slowly and surely moving into the hands of a single man. Who ever that maybe sitting in the Presidency. The Founders of America had no love of government but understood it was a necessary evil. I think George Washington described it best when he said "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master".
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon WOW! So poor Ronnie Reagan and the rest of the poor american elites were watching helplessly as devious communist infiltrators like myself are "somehow" using their superpowers over the Constitution to cause the debt/GDP ratio and the trade balance to go haywire and there is not a thing they could do to fix it for 30 years cause they have no FBI CIA US military etc, they are on their own. LOL! I really need some of that good stuff you must be smoking, buddy!
szatmar666 1 month ago
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HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
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@szatmar666 No it doesn’t take Super Powers..... it takes stupidity among a majority of people. Actually your one of the very few people I've come across that I believe holds their view for some other reason then stupidity. That’s why I started talking to you. If George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson etc. were complicacy nuts? I'm proud to be counted among them.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon If the american elites were such victims in this how did a man like Mitt Romney make millions while the country was bleeding cash in the 80s?! Or is the likely republican candidate to the WH also a "communist infiltrator"?!
szatmar666 1 month ago
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HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
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@szatmar666 So why do you seek to empower them even more? Folks like myself understand the danger unchecked government can produce and I no more seek to empower Romney then Obama. But, way to many people (especially Liberal Democrats) see the federal government as the expert in all matters, as always completely altruistic, neutral and benevolent in all matters. That how folks viewed the Church back in the day. You are making a big mistake. That’s what Mrs. Rand is trying to explain.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon Was Ike a liberal democrat?! All I am saying is to start taxing the rich at 90% like he did and restore the form of capitalism that built the country for 50 years after the great depression. You pretend I am saying something else, but I have my posts here to back me up. You are the one who's supporting a foreign ideology from a russian lady who didn't know capitalism if it bit her in the ass.
szatmar666 1 month ago
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HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
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HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
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@szatmar666 Your idea to send more money to government? To me it sounds like giving more heroin to a drug addict. Im not willing to send them a single penny. I am not willing to allow them to raise taxes a single penny on anyone, anywhere for any reason. Not until they prove they can be trusted with that penny. If these were principle fugal and honorable people? They would not ask for more. So far I have seen nothing.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon You have seen nothing because you deliberately have chosen to ignore facts that are inconvenient for the dogmas you embrace. I have shown plenty of facts that prove that taxrates and regulations before the 80s worked better than the ones after. You just chosen to ignore them and in that respect you behave like a good communist: go blindly with the party doctrine even if it's leading to a precipice and there are plenty of facts contradicting it.
szatmar666 1 month ago
@szatmar666 Your apparently dependent on government in some manner. Sorry dude.... I'm not in favor of giving a drug addict more dope. If the drug addict needs a fix he'll have to look into his own pocket. Everything I've talked about is rooted in reality and facts. The United States government does not have a revenue problem. It has a spending and waste problem.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@szatmar666 Any Rand is absolutely correct. Your objection to the "rich" is not rooted in altruism. It is rooted in hatred and jealousy. You don’t even see that your causing the very things you claim to hate. You keep stripping people of thier money and cronyism is only going to increase. Eventually YOU will have no liberty or freedom.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon your responses are full of self serving lies: you don't have the common decency to address my arguments directly so you ignore what I said and instead put words in my mouth and pretend you are up against the strawman u made up and that you love to hate: the dependent welfare queen that was made up by conservative propagandists so that brainwashed little serfs like you don't think too much about the damage that's been done to capitalism the last 30 years.
szatmar666 1 month ago
@szatmar666 A four trillion dollar budget and you think its not enough. I'm incredibly shocked the budget is over one trillion. For some reason you seem believe government can not overspend and is completely responsible. I suspect you are dependent on government in some manner. If this is true you are as venal and licentious as any business man. The business man seeks to empower themselves by their own merit . You seek to empower yourself with the full force and authority of government.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon Again: you keep changing the topic to stuff that I never talked about. STOP LYING ABOUT WHAT I SAID! Just answer this: was Eisenhower a communist?! If not what's wrong with his economic policies?!
szatmar666 1 month ago
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HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
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@szatmar666 It's a little hard to explain in this tiny forum. To show the GDP to gross revenues would take more time then I care to spend. You wouldn’t listen anyway and it would be a waste of time. Suffice to say Government spending is about to reach 100% of the entire GDP of the United States. Then no matter how much you tax the citizens? It will never be enough. Then it's bankruptcy time... just like Greece.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon The reason the US taxed the rich at 70%+ for 50 years wasn't simply to raise revenues but most importantly to keep money in the main street economy. Taxing the rich ensures that they leave their money in their business instead of taking it out of the pockets of their workers and diverting it to Wall Street. Was the USA in 1956 Greece?! Why do you feel this need to be so blatantly dishonest and come up with childish strawman arguments?!
szatmar666 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon BTW, whoever is marking your posts as spam I assure you it's not me and I would appreciate if he respected your free speech rights on this site and ceased doing it
szatmar666 1 month ago
@szatmar666 I just looked it up. The GDP for America is a little over 14 trillion dollars for 2011 with 3% growth. Our debt is $15,260,645,560,900. Total spending for States and Federal is a little over 7 trillion dollars. The unfunded liabilities of America are a little over 117 trillion dollars. That’s promises that can't be fulfilled. O here's a good one--> Gross Debt to GDP ratio is 100.8% So I stand corrected. It's already gone over 100%.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon I know that, in fact I posted most of these numbers myself in this very discussion! So what's your point?! I just said mine: tax the rich, allow more unions and in general go back to solid capitalism that built this country under both republicans and democrats after the great depression! Your answer is more taxcuts and deregulation that caused all of this mess to begin with.
szatmar666 1 month ago
@szatmar666 If you tax 90% of businessmen's money? The GDP will drop drastically. Nobody will want to open a business in America. You will be increasing the problem drastically. Yes they may move to China. I suppose you could build a wall around America to keep people in like Germany had and in N. Korea.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon how do you know that?! You are making this stuff up. In fact that's EXACTLY my point: taxes were above 70% for 50 years and none of the nonsense your side is claiming would happen ever did.
szatmar666 1 month ago
@szatmar666 I'm looking at the chart I like the 7% rate in 1913. I'm telling ya the tax revenue may of gone down but spending was never reduced Of course this will cause a problem. Some politicians will even start wars as an excuse to not lower spending. I really think you have the wagon in front of the horse. You should be demanding responsible spending then maybe we can think about raising taxes. Today's politicians are making themselves filthy rich by insider trading on their own legislation
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon 7% was just for 3 years it went right up to 70%+ and stayed there until republicans cut it in 1922-25 to 25%. Then we know what happened and taxes went back to 70%+ for 50 years. Taxing the rich has little to do with generating government revenues. You tax activities that you want to discourage. What we want to discourage right now is the rich taking almost 100% of the profits, deny the wages their workers have worked for and divert that money to Wall Street.
szatmar666 1 month ago
@szatmar666 That 50 year period you talk about where the top marginal rate was 70% to 90%?Isn't that the same period of time America changed from a industrial power house to a service society?Today we buy most of our industrial goods from other nations. What makes you think anyone is going to just lay there and be raped. Especially business men.They will retire and not use the money they already accumulated or they will move their business to China. New people will not want to take their place.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon "Isn't that the same period of time America changed from a industrial power house to a service society?" No, that's the last 30 years. In the 50 years before Reagan the US was an industrial economy. The "service economy" is the supply side fraud I was talking about: there is no real economy without industry. The business men you talk of perpetrated a fraud on the american people and drunk their own coolaid. Most of the last 30 yrs the GDP grew on borrowed $.
szatmar666 1 month ago
@szatmar666 How old are you? Because I remember when gas prices went from 25 cents a gallon to over a dollar during Carter's Presidency and inflation was over 20% with no end in sight. Carter pretty much told us we must learn to live with it. Everyone thought we were doomed. You want to talk about someone who inherited a pile a crap from his predecessor? It was Ronald Reagan. You just wait. I predict the inflation rate is going to shoot off the chart again in the middle of this summer.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon Carter hasn't borrowed a penny from the next generation. during his 4 years in office he netted 10 million jobs & the debt to GDP ratio went down from 36% to 32%. In other words the economy grew faster than the debt every year he was in office. He told the ppl that green energy is a necessity for the US. Reagan ignored that and proceeded to grow the economy on borrowed money with oil bought from the middle east instead. We'll pay for that 4 geberations 2 come!
szatmar666 1 month ago
@szatmar666 Well I don’t know what to say to ya now. Your saying Carter was the best President ever. All of government money is barrowed, taxed, confiscated or stolen. You need to learn how government budgets work because its not like normal citizens budgets. Let's pretend for a second that Carter didn’t barrow any money? You must really hate that Obama has barrowed 2.7 trillion from China more money then was spent on WWII. What's your excuse for this? Let me guess.Bush did it so it makes it OK.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon I don't have any excuses for Obama and I wish your side was as honest about republicans. But the fact is that I have no excuses for the electorate who punished a guy like Carter who told them as it is and put in office a slick salesman like Reagan who told them what they wanted to hear:" you can have your cake and eat it too." After that EVERY president jumped on a tax cutting deregulating and borrowing 4 foreign oil bandwagon & ppl loved it. So blame yourself 2
szatmar666 1 month ago
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HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@szatmar666 The way I'd like to see the budget problem resolved? Close all nonessential services of government indefinitely until the budget is balanced. No raising of taxes or barrowing. The citizens have sacrificed enough. I don’t know if you’ve noticed government has sacrificed NOTHING! You don’t seem to understand. Some people in government will create these problems knowing folks like you will demand your freedom and liberty be taken away.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon your theories about how to solve america's problems are ill informed and as I have proven many times here against the principles of sound capitalism that built the USA to begin with. That's because you are an ideolog hell bent on defending dogma even when there is overwhelming evidence that suggests the implications are horrible for the country. You will stick to your guns like many EE communists did until collapse & it's evident that the ideology is a fraud
szatmar666 1 month ago
@szatmar666 Ill Informed? No I'm playing hardball. We have politicians of all strips who are in love with themselves. They never look to themselves as a problem. Spending has never gone down. Government under Obama now consumes 25% of GDP. I heard a person ask "What do they want? 100% of GDP?" My answer to that question is "ABSOLUTELY" If they could government would take 100%.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@szatmar666 I'm a ideolog? You are the one willing to submit and you demand everyone give up their Liberty to follow you.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon You proved in your posts here that you are an ideologue: you call the return to 50 years of sound capitalism between 1932-1981 a "submission to my demand" of "giving up freedom". Your whole language reeks of a rigid dogmatic thinking reminiscent of communism.
szatmar666 1 month ago
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HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
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@szatmar666 In 1940 government consumed 7% of GDP. Today under Obama's leadership its over 25%. It is your ideology leading people to slavery and servitude. Yes I do have ideas... like the protection of Freedom and Liberty. The biggest difference between my ideas and your "sides" is my notions of liberty and freedom are those of an adult where I'm responsible for myself As opposed to your "sides" idea of Liberty like that of a child meaning less responsibility.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@szatmar666 Your "side" desire to make government our parent.... I do not. You have some strange notions of Liberty and Freedom because I assure you... you will not find it with more government control. When I first started posting I knew what I was dealing with.... your not talking to a useful idiot. Obama has tried to buy our Freedom and Liberty for $40. Mine is not for sell. I bet your scrambling to sell. Your ideology of slavery is going to be defeated.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@szatmar666 Let me explain my strategy. It cuts out all the BS and liars. If power is flowing away from me and into the hands of incompetent government agents control? It’s a bad thing. If power and control of my life is flowing back to me? It’s a good thing. So how in hell could you believe that is a communist ideology unless your delusional or purposely seek to deceive like a skilled subversive?
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon "Let me explain my strategy. It cuts out all the BS " On the contrary. What you are saying IS BS simply because it's pure speculation. In contrast what U said about gov being 25% of GDP today and 7% in 1940 is the sort of thing we call FACT. Of course you are wrong on both the number & your understanding of econ 101. In 1940 total outlays as a % of GDP was a historic low of 10% but the average is 15-20%. Today it's 25%. NO BIG DIFF. It's unrelated to my point.
szatmar666 1 month ago
@szatmar666 You do understand government budgeting does not work like a household budget? Every dept. in government has no incentive to save money. Quite the opposite. If they do not spend every single dime allotted for that year? They can not ask for more and they may have a smaller budget next year. It is a big screw up among government agencies to spend every penny. Government is not suppose to EVER have a surplus. Surpluses occur for one reason... over taxation.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon Your quote...... You do understand government budgeting does not work like a household budget?
The average family has negative savings....
mrgetrealpeople 3 weeks ago
@HawkNightDragon I don't disagree that there is waste in government and I think no one wants government just to collect taxes and sit on the surplus. I think the way real countries operate is that they try to grow their economy much faster than their debt so that revenues will cover expenses even if rates are low simply because in a growing economy more people make more money and thus pay more taxes AS A GROUP not as an individual.
szatmar666 3 weeks ago
@HawkNightDragon Your government spending (outlays) as a % of GDP can be 90% if your gov spending pays off in terms of revenue and GDP growth. In other words if your government is doing smart investments your GDP will grow as a result and your debt will shrink as a % of GDP. In fact there are small countries with state owned energy and shipping corporations such as Finland where the GOV is a large % of GDP yet they don't owe debt to anybody.
szatmar666 1 month ago
@szatmar666 Government revenues in Finland are 50% of GDP but their debt is only 40% of the GDP while the US debt is at almost 100%. What's even worse in the US is private sector debt is 250% of GDP. Finland's is 60%. Finland went through their own crisis when the SU collapsed and had the same debt levels the USA has today: they raised interest rates nationalized the largest banks and invested in manufacturing & exports. Opposite of what you hear from Ayn Rand fanatics here.
madashelldude 1 month ago
@madashelldude Even Switzerland which is consistently ranked as the most free market system in the world with much higher standard of living for the middle class and only 38% GDP national debt has a government tax revenue that's 30% of GDP. Only Singapore has a lower level of effective taxation than the US and it's a much more regulated economy. This idea to take random numbers out of context and just throw them in your opponents face without any deeper context is just childish.
szatmar666 1 month ago
@szatmar666 The united states has effective tax much lower then 38%
Fact 1.C-corps are taxed at 38% only after 18,333,333 in gross adjusted profit.
The average C-corps effective tax rate is about 16% not the 38%.statutory tax rate.
Fact 2 ..LLCs and S corporations make up most of the business in the US, which taxes are passed through at the Individual personal rate....
Fact-3 C-corporate taxes raise just 1.3 percent of GDP in revenue this year, about a third of what it was in the 1950s.
mrgetrealpeople 3 weeks ago
@mrgetrealpeople Good point: us effective tax rates are a lot lower than nominal rates.
szatmar666 3 weeks ago
@szatmar666 The biggest point I'm trying to make with you is, to just strip the citizens of more money without demanding a show of responsible behavior from government is more then foolish If government closed 75% of its operations? I wouldn’t even notice except for a lack of oppression. I have a feeling you would be devastated Yes some businessmen are very venal and licentious but you are equally as licentious expect you seek to empower the entity that is infinitely more dangerous. government.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon your quote------If government closed 75% of its operations? I wouldn’t even notice except for a lack of oppression.
1.What happen when the company raids the pension fund you worked for and there no regulation against it?
2. I bet you like that your bank account are federally insured
3 lets build a 100 new nuclear plants and no one inspects them or where the waste is dumped.Who do think pays for the clean up.
mrgetrealpeople 3 weeks ago
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HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@szatmar666 Politicians in DC have told you 117 trillion dollars worth of lies yet you still want to believe them. I'm not on a side when comes to these liars in Washington DC. One of the biggest difference between today and yesteryear is Government was not consuming so much of the GDP. I've been looking at the numbers. Government is consuming close to 40% of GDP right now and you want to empower them more? That’s insane.... do you really know what it is to free and have liberty?
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@szatmar666 You seem to not be aware. Rich folks and government are in bed together. When you empower one? You empower the other. I seek to strip them both of power and empower myself. Because you see... I'm on my side. But you on the contrary seek to give unlimited power to the most dangerous of the two and have no conditions or demands for responsible behavior with the money. I have a lot of demands for responsible behavior before I'm willing to see them take a penny from anyone.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon Rich folks and government are in bed together. You understand Romney would pay nothing in federal income taxes?
mrgetrealpeople 2 weeks ago
@mrgetrealpeople Do you understand Obama was broke and could barely afford to pay for his house before he got into the business of being a governmental conman? Now he's a millionaire The business of government is good and getting better thanks to a whole bunch of foolish voters. Yes rich folks and government are in bed together and its always been that way and always will be that way. But what's most dangerous is when government becomes the sole authority and control.
HawkNightDragon 2 weeks ago
@mrgetrealpeople Libs are very foolishly placing all power and authority in the reach of a single man and one day someone is going to grab it. Libs are cutting their own throat and they don’t realize it and I believe they never will. You don’t know who's in our future. But extremely foolish people are placing absolute power and control at their feet. Stupidity is wrong word to descibe such a foolish action. The founders of America sought to separate powers for a reason and Libs are undoing it.
HawkNightDragon 2 weeks ago
@szatmar666 You want to discourage businessmen from taking profits and you want to do this by giving it to government? Seriously what makes you think the men and women in government are less venal and licentious then the businessman. You are jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. It's my belief most corrupt businessmen are just following governments omnipotent example.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon You have to quote what I said EXACTLY that makes you think I want to discourage anybody. Again: if you were honest for a second you would acknowledge that all I am saying is BRING BACK THE FORM OF CAPITALISM THAT BUILT AMERICA FOR 50 YEARS AFTER THE GREAT DEPRESSION. I don't support any taxrates, labor policies or trade policies, industrial policies and regulations that are not STRICTLY off the shelf of a well proven capitalist system.
szatmar666 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon In fact your side is the one that's advocating for a radical destruction of sound capitalist principles and replacing it with the type of casino capitalism and condo flipping that's giving a bad name to capitalism and that's been going on since the 80s.
szatmar666 1 month ago
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HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
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@szatmar666 I wish I could post charts in here. The one I'm looking at shows spending and revenue going up. But spending shooting off the chart like a rocket.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
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HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@szatmar666 How could I be going along with the "Party Doctrine" when I don’t want to fund the "Party"? It is you who desires to give "The Party" unlimited funds to keep partying and you don’t even demand that they be responsible with the money. There is little difference between the two political parties in Washington. They are both taking us in the same direction. One is take us there slower then the other.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
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@szatmar666 I have seen no attempt on the part of government to be frugal, principled or responsible. In my view to send them a single penny would be an act of extreme foolishness. By the way..... This short clip of Mrs. Rand is first thing I heard her say. Other then this I know nothing about her.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
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HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@szatmar666 It is very clear by your commits that you're a very useful tool in the process of moving America away from Capitalism and free markets to a Communist system. That’s what Ayn Rand is talking about. Altruism is not always a good thing. Especially when folks like you are empowering government to put a gun in people's faces and force them to be altruistic.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
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@HawkNightDragon LOL! Both republicans and dems R saying the other side is "immoral" because it's taking away someone else's money. Repubs say the gov is taking away money because of taxes, dems r saying the rich are taking money out of their workers' pockets.
Propaganda makes ppl think econ 101 is about morality. Sorry, it is not! Simply put since taxes went under 70% and finance got deregulated in the 80s-90s the US is growing its GDP on borrowed money. supply-side FAILED!
szatmar666 1 month ago
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HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
szatmar666 I did not intend to put words in your mouth. I believe that the best system is Capitalism, where all have equal opportunity to succeed, and fail. Ayn Rand herself said that Capitalism has not been tried anywhere for many years, the last place being Hong Kong.
The last 10 years in America have been disastrous for everyone, even for those who have profited from the profligate spending.
Socialism penalises success for the sake of those who are not allowed to fail. There goes freedom.
BrianWheatley69 1 month ago
@BrianWheatley69 It's more like the last 30 years have been disastrous. Again: tha debt was $994 billion in 1981. Today it's $15 trillion. Just under Reagan/Bush it QUADRUPLED! As someone who actually lived in communism and had to read Marx in HS & college I am amazed how much irrelevant BS is being said about "capitalism" "socialism" "marxism" by ppl who have no clue. The econ problems in the US today R good old fashioned corruption & cronyism EXACTLY what brought down USSR
szatmar666 1 month ago
Interesting that the only rebuttal from liberals to Rand's ideas is nothing more then slander and blatant racism.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
And who can doubt that it will lead to the worst disorders when minds created free by God are compelled to submit slavishly to an outside will? When we are told to deny our senses and subject them to the whim of others? When people devoid of whatsoever competence are made judges over experts and are granted authority to treat them as they please? These are the novelties which are apt to bring about the ruin of commonwealths and the subversion of the state...Galileo Galilei
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
Ayn Rand was one evil, idiotic, perverse bitch. She was merciless, sexually deviant, godless, bigotted, stuck at the arrested development stage of the infant, which informs her entire weltanschauung. And she is the hero, icon, the deity of modern day republicans.
seekandumayfind 1 month ago
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HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
It is highly amusing to see the blatant irrationality and projection blaring through Ayn Rand's words. She claims that other groups fear and hate what she is opposing. Is that so? That is not what is observed. Rather, she quite clearly shows intense fear and hatred herself. Ayn Rand was scarred by the Soviet Union, and she was never able to shake free from its shackles. No matter how far she ran, how much she philosophized, or how much she aged. It is tragic, really.
Melthornal 1 month ago
@Melthornal she's what I call a "reverse bolshevik" revolutionary. She's a product of communist Russia, I know the type well: she's projecting her own anxieties, hatred and fear on her political opponents. Something you can see on today's conservatives who will call you a "communist" every time you dare to challenge their dogmatic beliefs using facts and western style deliberation. "Debate and reason" R western values, randians don't believe in those: they just co-opt the language.
szatmar666 1 month ago
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@szatmar666 And who can doubt that it will lead to the worst disorders when minds created free by God are compelled to submit slavishly to an outside will? When we are told to deny our senses and subject them to the whim of others? When people devoid of whatsoever competence are made judges over experts and are granted authority to treat them as they please? These are the novelties which are apt to bring about the ruin of commonwealths and the subversion of the state...Galileo Galilei
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon Of course Galileo was talking about science being subjugated by the superstitious religious institutions of the 16th century and Rand was talking about rich people being "subjugated" by laws that prevent them from being able to loot the economy at the expense of modern society: these are 2 different things. The ownership class's ability to keep as much of the profits as they want and ignore their workers is destructive to capitalism as proven since 1981.
szatmar666 1 month ago
@szatmar666 Who told the Church the Earth was the centre of the universe? Answer The scientists.
BrianWheatley69 1 month ago
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HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
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@szatmar666 Ayn Rand like Galileo was talking about being suppressed by people who have no idea what they are doing. "Superstitious" Religious institution do not hold exclusivity on suppression of thought or subjugation. If society always presumes that government is the expert in all matters soon we will have Nazi's marching down the street telling everyone what to do. If you give government the power to steal from individuals it will soon be after your liberty and freedom.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@szatmar666 I find it interesting that you saw fit to remove Galileo's quote because it doesn’t fit into your preconceived notions. I reposted it.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@szatmar666 You speak from the point of view that anyone who is a Capitalist is obviously greedy and perverse, while anyone who is poor is honest as the day is long. Greed is a human condition, not peculiar to Capitalists. If Rand was a "reverse" product of the Soviet Union, then she would have been a Christian.
Rand was flawed. She had no sense of humour. She DID think she was infallible!
Of course if man replaces God, then man becomes God. The question then is Which man?
BrianWheatley69 1 month ago
@BrianWheatley69 U R putting words in my mouth. What I am ACTUALLY saying is that the USA had a pretty successful form of capitalism for 50 years after the great depression strictly based on economic stats. This is not an ideological observation, IT'S a FACT: in 1955 under a republican taxrates for the rich were a PUNITIVE 91% and the economy grew faster than the debt EVERY year. Since 1981 those taxes are lower and $14 of the $15 trillion debt was created under these low rates
szatmar666 1 month ago
@szatmar666 using your logic I suppose Galileo was a paranoid kook.
HawkNightDragon 1 month ago
@HawkNightDragon WHAT?! GALILEO?! what's in common between an irrational political zealot like Rand and a scientist persecuted by a bunch of irrational political zealots?! You people have a serious knack for spin.
szatmar666 1 month ago
Where do you get your facts, do make them up as you need them? You stated that...When taxes were high (after the great depression) the USA had the largest economic expansion the world has ever seen...the opposite is true. The unemployment rate in 1938 was 19%..and the only reason it went down in the 1940's was WW2, millions of people were put to work in making bombs and killing the enemy. Stop with the weed it is effecting the 3 brain cells you have left.
dajisali1 1 month ago
@dajisali1 Tax rates under Eisenhower were 91%, and they remained above 70% until 1981! My facts come from the budget of the USA, "Historical Tables" Section 7 and the IRS schedules. Top tax rates were cut in in 1921 from 73% to 56% and by 1929 to 24% then we know what happened on Wall Street. FDR raised taxes to 63% the day he took office and by 1944 they were at 94%. Under Kennedy it went from 91% to 70% and in 1981 to 40% & from 1982: the debt grew faster that the GDP!
madashelldude 1 month ago
What I find amazing in the US that a lot of ppl think they are entitled to their own facts & call u a commie if u point that out. It's a culture of bullshit. Contrast that to communist China pulling double digit econ growth for decades. The US just replaced a Harvard MBA with a Harvard lawyer and called it a change while you have exactly 2 scientists in Congress the rest are lawyers and other BS artists. In China most leaders R engineers and scientists & 1 lawyer in the politburo!
szatmar666 1 month ago
@szatmar666 I don't think it matters what your college degree is in: there are smart lawyers with common sense out there but it's absolutely true that the American electorate for a couple of decades now is sending increasingly anti-science reactionary people to office. Today Congress and the political class have very little regard for science, economics or experts. There is political reward for denying sound science and economics and that tells u the future direction I suppose.
madashelldude 1 month ago
@madashelldude Looks like what happened in the 20s was that most of the decade you had super low 25% top marginal tax rate and as a result a lot of untaxed money was floating around on the real-estate market and caused bubbles like the FL real estate bubble which brought down the market in 1929. Regardless of what were the causes however it is a FACT that 1929 happened after a decade of taxcuts and top rates were 24% at the moment of collapse. They were 70%+ for 50 years AFTER!
szatmar666 1 month ago
@madashelldude I assume this is a TYPO: "and in 1981 to 40%" in reality Reagan dropped it BY 40% TO 28%! Which is near Great Depression levels of taxation ;)
szatmar666 1 month ago
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@szatmar666 yes, it is a typo, I like your summary, very clear and to the point: "FACT that 1929 happened after a decade of taxcuts and top rates were 24% at the moment of collapse. They were 70%+ for 50 years AFTER!" In fact the US was built up as a super power thanks to those 50 years and lost a lot of its economic power and industry in the last 30 years of historically low tax rates on investors while taxing middle and low income ppl more than ever.
madashelldude 1 month ago
@madashelldude Ok, I looked it up too. 2 technicalities: taxes went down from 91% to 70% under LBJ in 1964-65 not Kennedy and Reagan cut taxes to 50% in 1981 and to 28% in 1988 but I think technically that was GHWB since Reagan had Alzheimer's.
Your argument still stands: most of the debt was incurred during years when taxes were lower than 70%. I think that's probably a magic number to achieve balance between supply and demand, government and private sector in the US.
szatmar666 1 month ago
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madashelldude 1 month ago
The previous comments is for madashelldude
dajisali1 1 month ago
You know, if you had some brains you would be dangerous. You are obviously a public school graduate. You dont read what people say and you go out on tangents that dont make any sense. Good luck in your life, you are going to need it.
dajisali1 1 month ago
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genghisdon1 1 month ago
Income Taxes should be a Flat % of ALL income over $20,000. No "write-offs", No "shelters". Whether earned income, inheritance, Capital Gain, or Corporate Profits. The % would rise and fall to match expenditures. No more Deficits. People would catch on REAL fast as the Tax went up or down. Thousands of "Tax Attornies" would have to find productive employment. True Libertarians/Anarchists like Ayn Rand will always have a following. Simplify the system and it will virtually correct itself.
randy109 1 month ago in playlist Favorite videos