@Xtrasupershadowgirl if that were the case, then delete all your comments, why only a couple and leave the rest? lol... really. that's very convincing.
@Xtrasupershadowgirl well that was fun... my bad for hoping you were just a deluded little fangirl that needed some fantasy escapism to hold on to... now I realize beyond all doubt... you. are. a. moron.
Let's try to imagine the books of Lord of the Rings, none of the story mention being caucasian, but it was clearly a European centric mythology storyline. How about if someone made that movie instead being casts with Blacks and Latinos, obviously not fitting the characters? I'm sure you'll be able to just brush it off easiy, especially if you're a fan :)
The sad reality is, fans of this show are so into the great things drawn from Asian culture about it, they wish they were in it. Turning casts white, helps them relate to the characters more, and they will defend their point of view so as to be able to keep their fantasy straight...
@Spriggan107 I never read Lord of the Rings, and I've only seen part of the 3rd movie. I can't argue or defend something that I have no knowledge on. Besides, I'm not here to argue about other movies. If you use it as a point to say The Last Airbender itself is racist, I'd listen to you. But since that point is leaning towards "Hollywood in general is racist" I don't really care, cause thats not what I'm arguing.
@kibblesays man Kibble you're a pretty thick but transparent one arent ya. Its not that you dont understand, its just easier for you to dismiss anyone pointing out the racism of Hollywood casting because people like you are infatuated with the asian mythology that empowers the show itself but you can relate to the fantasy even more if they were played by whites.
@Spriggan107 No, its that I do understand. I understand that this isn't racist (mostly cause every other country in the world does this). And the fact that all the Asian stuff is staying in the movie. They're changing nothing, seeing how the characters don't have a race in the show.
@Spriggan107 Seeing it for what it is?! The guy doesn't even know what a supporting character means! He thinks Aang is the one and only real important character in the show and the rest of the characters don't matter. For that, he's an ass.
@kibblesays You still can't see, even with so much explanation, the Pattern of Hollywood's racial bias casting habits, because you have never been on the cheated end, therefore have the luxury to hold on to your fantasy that white actors can play an Asian role with Asian names, in an obviously asian story setting. That, would garner you worse names than ASS.
But I see it's pointless to use logic on a daydreamer. Go forth young White Airbender with an Asian Name based of an Asian shaolin kid
@Spriggan107 And the same could be said for Asians, which is why when there was an Asian Macbeth, they changed every single thing about it. It took place in an Asian country, with Asian characters, Asian culture, language, everything. For the exact reason you said for us.
But thats not racist right? They're just Asians, so its ok.
@kibblesays no they're not the same in the least. You really need to stop comparing what goes on with other countries, because the USA is the only one that promises equality within its citizens. If you can't uphold that, go tell congress to rewrite the constitution.
We have no problem watching white-actors all the time. What sucks is this was another chance for us to see Asians in US theatres, and white actors are replacing the lead roles. Guess, you just can't get enough of yourselves huh?
@Spriggan107 Oh look at that, you didn't answer the question. How typical of you people. Now please, tell me, why isn't that the same? Why can they get away with it?
@Xtrasupershadowgirl So easy to call people losers when you're part of the group benefiting from the thievery. Its just the way you were brought up, afterall if you've grown used to your ancestral history taking whats not theirs, its ok to steal people's heritage too.- Superidiotgirl
@Spriggan107 ...did you just call me a super idiot girl?
The way I was brought up? The fuck are you talking about?
*facepalm* what is with you people and this win and lose shit. I don't care about that, at all. I just don't want to come on youtube and put up with this stupid crap every time I do. Its literally been a year now since I've been having these arguments, I'm so sick of them and just want them to be over with.
@Xtrasupershadowgirl yeah, because the Creators went to China, carefully observed the cultures, and Shaolin monks, then designed all the architecture with Asian influence, the cities and villages all have Asian Names, and the Characters have Asian names... and still, an airhead bitch like you has to be literally told by the Creators that the characters are Asian before you can figure out they're Asians?!
meh, it seems you can't tell an Asian from an Asian-wannabe. Keep dreaming stupido.
@Xtrasupershadowgirl extrasuperdumbbitch, Why would anyone need to ASSume anything if its already clear all signs point to them being asian.
How can you not associate culture with ethnicity?? Im sure in your little wannabe mind, you believe the creators made up this whole fantasy world based on Asian mythology and cultures just so they can populate it with white people. Keep dreaming your desperate dream.
@Xtrasupershadowgirl FUNNY how you associate cultural references as Fantasy as if someone made them up so as to not be associated with any ethnic background.
You've got a Sad fucked up definition of open-minded when you clearly advocate a denial of Asians from representing their own culture just so YOU can feel good about looking at another whitey play make-believe. It's summer time, go out and tan yourself in a corner! And maybe you'll pass off as Katara someday.
@Xtrasupershadowgirl YOU DUMB SHIT! Why don't you gather the FACTS first before making up another bullshit excuse why they didn't cast asians as lead roles.
They had an Open Casting Call SPECIFICALLY MENTIONING (CAUCASIANS or otherwise!)... nice try though.. fail but nice try.
@Xtrasupershadowgirl pff... yeah, keep telling that to yourself, if your house of BS is crumbling around you.
That Cast Call sheet was directly from the date M. Knight was being interviewed by Mike and Brian.... sorry weabo.,.. you're gonna need a LOT of whiteout to erase that part of history. Just go buy the DVDs, and actually listen to the commentariies, if you're going to keep insisting M&B didn't refer to their characters as Asians... you're so sad :D
@Xtrasupershadowgirl keep telling yourself that idiot. Of course you're not going to care, Truth is light, and you'd rather hide in the darkness so you can keep playing makebelieve. As desperate as it seems.
@Xtrasupershadowgirl ACTORS were chosen out of discriminatory practices of Hollywood, if you've not even been aware of that before, I've been wasting my time on an ignorant fangirl who insists all is well in the world.
BRUCE LEE himself got replaced by a white actor (DAVID C) in a series about Kung Fu monk that he personally helped write. Fast forward to our time, last year a movie called 21 about Asian American poker legends, and they all got replaced by white actors. yeah, no racism at all.
@Xtrasupershadowgirl no I thought you were done a while ago,.. lol just humoring you, but I guess you really wanted to believe it's ok to have white people playing roles meant for other ethnicities...
what they just couldnt' find any good actors that matched Katara and Sokka's inuit complexion? They gotta pick the palest of them all?
Tellin' ya... can't for the OBAMA movie. I'd say Richard Gere is gonna play him.
@Xtrasupershadowgirl they even had a good experienced ASIAN actor audition for Aang who looked and sounded like him with experience under his belt as far as acting, then they hire a White Kid who has NO HISTORY in acting!>...
@Xtrasupershadowgirl it's really amazing how you can say this kid's acting stunk when you haven't even seen ANYTHING from that white kid they picked. but whatever, like I said, racial background replacement gets you closer to the characters and story even more... off to dreamland
It's quiet the OPPOSITE. All the details about the show points to a primarily Asian Cast because of everything they represented,... its hardcore fans like you that get obsessed with the story and won't let go that they are not of the same background as the characters!
@Xtrasupershadowgirl and YES, you already said plenty about they picked: Let me jog your mind because you seem to have a very SHORT MEMORY of your own statements.
"They Picked the best for the movie". then says the asian kid actor's acting skills stunk, did you even see any?? NO.
@Xtrasupershadowgirl you're the one who made up your mind about Perries,.. and that all the actors picked are the best when you haven't seen the kid's acting yet. All in the name of believing the Casting Call was a fair and just procedure.. ha!
@kibblesays I'm not affiliated with Racebending,com, so look who's making assumptions here. And you only think you've won those arguments because anyone can convince themselves of that as long as they're not willing to admit when they may or may not be wrong. I'd love to hear your position, but try to be a bit less smug. You're off to a bad start already...
@Seiryu64 Ugh, when I say racebenders I mean everyone who opposes the movie, not everyone from the website.
Are you serious? Really? You're one of the cocky ones aren't you. Ok fine, tell me what you don't like about The Last Airbender. Tell me what you think is wrong about it, and I'll tell you my side.
@kibblesays What did I say about the smugness...? See, if you had a valid point then you would make it instead of all of the hmm-ing and hah-ing. You've got such an airtight case for the film, then let's hear it! Y'know, instead of shallow attempts at marginalizing people with an opposing view from your own. Don't be an internet cliche...
@kibblesays I say the racism is unintentional, but that doesn't make it any less prevalent. The casting notices showed a distinct preferences for caucasian actors in their wording, and it's no coincidence that that's what they found. That's what they were looking meaning that actors of color were already seen as a fall-back if they couldn't find a white actor for the part. The cast speaks for itself, but what makes it worse is so-called diversity.
@kibblesays Ultimately, people of color are only featured in this film as supporting roles, extras, or villains. Meanwhile, the 3 main heroes are all caucasian which presents a narrative in which a great white hope is the only chance to save the world against evil brown people. So, it's not that Paramount was deliberately trying to offend anyone. But by whitewashing the cast, and pushing people of color off to the sidelines, they've made a movie that co-opts Asian culture without respecting it.
@Seiryu64 Actually, Zuko, Iroh, Suki, Toph, May and Ty Lee are all heros and POC in the end of the story. Thats double the amount of white heros.
Southern Water Tribe: Inuits. Northern Water Tribe: Whites and Inuits. Earth Kingdom: Asians and Africans. Fire Nation: Indian Asians. Air Nomads: Mix of all cultures.
Well looks like white people are the overall minority in both heros and overall population of the world, yeah, that sure is some evil white washing.
@kibblesays This is your airtight argument? Zuko, Iroh, Suki, Toph, May, and Ty Lee are all supporting characters. Not leads. Plus, May and Ty Lee spend the majority of the narrative as a threat to the heroes. And your listing of the extras further proves that your argument is a joke. Aang, Sokka, and Katara are still white, and these characters are ALWAYS heroic unlike Zuko. It is the white hero that ultimately saves the day while the POC depend on him to do so. Diversity isn't a numbers game.
@Seiryu64 You're really going to argue that Zuko, Iroh, and Toph are only supporting characters? They're like the top 3 fan favorites, they do a hell of a lot more then support in the story. The other three still have a large impact on the story, don't sell them short.
How does that prove its a joke? That the majority of their worlds population is POC, which is true, thats something very important for the movie. If it was all white people I know you'd bring that up for your argument, right?
@kibblesays Are you serious? Are either Zuko, Iroh, or Toph the lead character of the series? No, and you know that. Stop pretending fan favoritism equates to overall importance. And stop making assumptions while you're at it too.
@Seiryu64 Hahaha! Oh man, you really don't think that at the very least Zuko isn't a lead role. Was that a serious statement, or are you just making anything up at this point?
In season 1, Zuko was the main bad guy. The creators used him to switch over to the bad guys side to let everyone know what was going on with the Fire Nation. Later on in episodes, they some were all about him. That even have an episode called "Zuko alone." That doesn't happen with supporting characters, ever.
@Seiryu64 No, he isn't "the lead" but he is "a lead." Did you ever attend any type of english class in your life? Cause there isn't just one lead role, there can be dozens. Did you really not know that?
@kibblesays Obviously you haven't because if you had you'd realize that there is one character is *the most importance* to the entire narrative of Avatar: The Last Airbender, and it ain't Zuko. That means that Zuko, while integral to the narrative, is not the main focus at all because he is always secondary to Aang. That makes him a supporting character. An important one, but still a supporting character.
@Seiryu64 *facepalm* you seriously believe there is only one lead role in stories? Wow, please go to school tomorrow and learn about this. Just because a character in the story isn't THE lead character, doesn't mean they're automatically a supporting character. There can be many lead characters.
@kibblesays Feigning stupidity won't make this any less embarrassing. THIS story has one main character above all others: Aang. He's the titular Avatar, for crying out loud. So cut the bullshit already.
@Seiryu64 If you'd answer the question I can make it relevant to this discussion, stop avoiding this please.
Yeah, every story ever created by any human being have one overall main character, but there are other lead characters. In every story. There isn't any bullshit, you've just never learned this I guess.
@kibblesays This is nothing BUT bullshit. Semantics aside, the fact is that Zuko is a supporting character no matter the level of importance. His role is ultimately helping the lead character. So, again: cut the bullshit and move on.
@kibblesays I've seen this argument before, and it never held any weight. You're attempting to ignore the fact that the villains are all non-white actors while the main hero of the ENTIRE narrative is a white kid. So while you try to rack this all up under a makeshift score-card, stop for a minute to look at the roles being filled...
@Seiryu64 I'm clearly not ignoring it, seeing how I'm arguing it.
Do you think I haven't done that? You know why he's probably white? Cause this movie is being filmed in America. If it was filmed in Japan or China, he'd be Asian. Mexico, spanish. Africa, African. This is just what any country would do, other countries do do this actually. And seeing how they don't have an ethnicity in the show, they're free to do that.
@kibblesays But you're REALLY not. So what if the film is being made in America. There are Asian-Americans, so that argument just fell flat. The US is an incredibly diverse nation, and the assumption (there you go again) that American = white IS A MAJOR PART OF THE PROBLEM. So is the assumption that no ethnicity = white because that's absurd given their surroundings. The countries you listed don't have the kind of diversity that we do, so there's no comparison. So, yes. You are very wrong.
@Seiryu64 Well technically America does equal white, seeing how we're the majority race. But its more well known to be a diverse country.
Actually no diversity=no diversity. The movie isn't filled with white people, stop making it seem like it is.
I wasn't asking if I was wrong about that, I was asking if I was wrong about the fact that depending on what country the movie would have been made in, the majority ethnicity would have had the lead role. Is that wrong?
@kibblesays Yes, you are still wrong. American does not now nor has it EVER equated to white. And I'm not making it seem like the film is "filled with white people." Just the main heroic roles. Not the characters that come along later, or switch sides in the conflict, but the central characters that oppose the Fire Nation from start to finish. They're all white. The only reason you're seeing it that way is because of your own bias (American = white, for example).
@kibblesays "What detour?" You're parsing words in an attempt to redirect the discussion to the importance of Zuko's role when that's not what this debate is about. That's a sidetrack.
Suki is a supporting character, is she not? You're back to square one.
I've stated the FACT that the main hero of the entire is portrayed as white. YOU turned that into "the movie is filled with white people." Your problem, not mine.
This movie isn't being made in another country, so stop trying to skirt issues.
@Seiryu64 You said Zuko was a supporting character after I said he would become a hero in the end so it didn't count. I was stating exactly why he was a lead role in the story to prove he is in fact a main hero of POC in the movie. I'd that thats pretty relevant.
Dear god... just because she's a supporting character doesn't mean she doesn't have an impact and importance for the story. If she didn't, then what's the point of creating her character in the first place?
@kibblesays No, I've ALWAYS said Zuko was a supporting character because that's what he is. He supports Aang once he joins him, so does Suki.
You're obviously grasping at straws here. You're not even on topic anymore. You've abandoned the claim that this movie is diverse because that's not true. One of your own argument proves that as it takes the same route plenty of American films take by placing white heroes in the forefront. So can we stop wasting time here? You've lost.
@Seiryu64 I'm not going to "cut the bullshit" because there is none to cut. Now this is really just about me being upset about how you think Aang is the only lead role in the show. I can't believe you honestly think that. I just asked another racebender if they think Zuko is a lead role or not, I'm gonna go ask friends of mine who are fans of the show too.
@kibblesays Don't give a shit. It won't change the fact that Zuko SUPPORTS Aang which makes him a supporting character. We both know that. So why are you trying to color things any other way? Oh, right...your "argument."
@Seiryu64 So, by your logic, a character that supports another character, is then a supporting character. God damn you really don't know anything do you.
Really? So I didn't just go back and read exactly that?
Well if you'd just answer the question, I'd continue my argument. But seeing how you're lacking the ability to answer it for whatever reason, I can't do anything until then. We're waiting on you buddy, yes or no.
And enough with the "..." what does that even mean?
@kibblesays Obviously, you want to disregard what words actually mean. Are you even paying attention to what you're saying at this point? "So, by your logic, a character that supports another character, is then a supporting character."
@Seiryu64 ...but thats exactly what you're saying. You actually just said "No, I've ALWAYS said Zuko was a supporting character because that's what he is. He supports Aang once he joins him." So what I take from that statement, you think a supporting character is someone who actually supports another character. Which is so wrong its painful.
And you still have not answered my question. It has great relevance to what we're talking about, so please answer it.
@kibblesays You're still at it, huh? First, you don't have a fucking question, nor do you have an argument. You're still trying to make the case that a "character that supports another character" ISN'T a supporting character, and that's so stupid it's making my eyes bleed. You can't make the case that Zuko is the main character, and no matter how you mince words, his role in the story is complimentary to Aang's from start to finish.
@Seiryu64 I didn't convince anybody, I just asked them and they said "yeah he is." I'll gladly get more people to answer if you want, I'm already 3 for 3.
I'm only going on and on about Zuko because I don't want someone like you believing that Aang is the only lead hero in the story. Because Zuko also is, and Iroh, and Toph, and Suki also are, and in the movie they're all POC. Which is all about the casting of the film adaptation.
Seriously, the "you're loosing" thing is so immature, enough.
@kibblesays Then you asked people that also don't know what words mean. You're conflating "supporting" with "background" and that's why you're wrong. A supporting character can be complex and well-developed. But in the case of a narrative that has a single character at the focal point, and Avatar does, it becomes a matter of their relation to that character. Aang is THE main character as there is no one that is equally important to the story. End of discussion.
@kibblesays You seem to forget that you were the one that bragged about winning this debate before. I'm just showing you that you haven't and you're not. Y'know, staying on the level...
@Seiryu64 First, I never bragged about winning this debate, I said that I've beaten many other racebenders in debates, I never once said you. Check that again.
Thats not all a supporting character is dude. My friend who's in his 4 year of college with a 4.0 GPA laughed at you and gave the actual definition of it. Zuko is a lead character. Not THE lead, but a lead. There can be numerous lead characters in stories, not just one.
And you still haven't answered the question, yes or no?
@kibblesays "Every argument I've been in, I've won."
Now you're just a liar. It's always a desperate scramble to redefine your own meaning with you. You claim to have won every argument, but you think that's not bragging? Bullshit. And I really don't give a tumbling fuck what your friends think. Of course they're likely to take your side because they know you. Doesn't change the fact that you're all wrong, and Zuko is not THE lead. He is still secondary, and thus a supporting role. Face facts.
@Seiryu64 Exactly, thats with other people. Not you. Like I just said. Thanks for proving me right.
Its not just my friends, I got a racebender to say the same thing.
Are you seriously that stupid? How many time have I said "Not THE lead, but A lead." I'm pretty sure it was around 4 times, yet you keep saying that. It makes him A lead character. Everyone except you seems to realize this. But since you keep screwing everything else up, I'm not surprised.
@kibblesays We've been over this a thousand times, and you STILL have no argument for the casting. And just because you and the people you interact with have a hard time comprehending the written word doesn't make it my problem. Even by your definition of *A* lead character, Zuko is still of lesser importance to the story than Aang. A fact that you can't dispute. This, by definition, makes him a supporting character in the grand scheme of things. What about that don't you understand, you git?
@Seiryu64 I do, but you never answered my question to start off my argument. You completely ignore the fact that I have one, and just say I have nothing to say. Stop ignoring it: "depending on what country the movie would have been made in, the majority ethnicity would have had the lead role. Is that wrong?"
Answer the fucking question already.
And no, he's A lead character. He's not a supporting character. There's an ACTUAL definition for that that Zuko doesn't fall under. Look it up.
@kibblesays Liar. You're still clinging to this bullshit definition of yours for the sake of your failing argument. As for your "question," I answered you twice.
"There are Asian-Americans, so that argument fell flat. The US is a diverse nation, and the assumption that American = white IS YOUR PROBLEM. So is the assumption that no ethnicity = white because that ignores their surroundings. Other countries don't have the kind of diversity as we do, so there's no comparison. You are very wrong."
@kibblesays "I did address this bullshit excuse. First, America is proud of its status as the "melting pot" which means that this aside of yours is irrelevant. In another country, they would have the issue of language to deal with on top of appearance. Meaning that they would have limited resources in the way of finding ACTORS of a different ethnicity that also spoke the language, That's not the case here, so this isn't an issue."
So, once again, you're fucking lying and grasping as straws.
@kibblesays Now, you keep claiming that your argument is hinged on that question. Well, I've now told you 4x how there is no comparison seeing as how an American film production has a wider net of resources than Hong Kong, Japan, India, etc. There are plenty of actors within and outside of the country of various ethnic backgrounds that all speak English. And as "the melting pot of the world," American is not synonymous with white. To think that is actually racist and incredibly ignorant.
@Seiryu64 The argument doesn't "hinge on this question," but it will start it off. Now answer it and stop wasting time, you're like the 4th racebender to avoid this question when I asked it, try to be at least little better then the rest of them.
@kibblesays You are desperately full of shit. I've addressed your question directly, and you're still running away the fact that you have no argument. Fact of the matter is casting white actors in roles like this insults everyone. It insults the culture depicted by co-opting and whitewashing it. It insults audiences by assuming that we're all too bigoted to relate to people that don't look like us even though non-whites have been doing so for ages. Worst of all, it insults future generations...
@kibblesays ...by limiting their view of themselves. Casting practices like these tell non-white children that there's something wrong with them. That they can be the bad guy, the sidekick, but never the hero because they're different. That their experience isn't American because they're not white.
If you can agree with ANY of that, go fuck yourself. But since I know you're not gonna do that, I'll invite you to tell me exactly how these casting practices DON'T send that message. Good luck.
@Seiryu64 ooooooooooor you can can answer my question, because in order to make my case I need to know if you're on board with me or not. It isn't a very hard question, or answer. Yes or no. You don't need to say anything else.
@Seiryu64 oooor you can can answer my question, because in order to make my case I need to know if you're on board with me or not. It isn't a very hard question, or answer. Yes or no. You don't need to say anything else.
@Seiryu64 Yes or no. I'm not saying it until you answer with either a yes, or a no. Since you "already answered" you should have no problem saying it again, but in a much more simple form right?
@kibblesays Look, debate aside, if you have a position then it shouldn't contingent on anything that someone else says. That's a weak argument. Now, do you have a case or not?
If so, quit dicking around and say it. THAT should be easier for you than repeating myself for the umpteenth time...
@Seiryu64 It not repeating myself if you've never said it. I'm not starting until you answer yes or no. It would really help if you stopped doing whatever you can, you know, saying I have no case, weak argument, blah blah blah, and just answer it so we can get on with this already.
You wanted to argue, so please do me the favor and let me begin. Yes or no?
@Seiryu64 I do not get why you don't understand this. All you have to do is send me a comment saying either yes, or no. That is literally it. But since you don't want to answer the question, you're saying I'm not making a point.
I already told you, I'll make my point when you answer the question. You're still avoiding it, just say yes, or no. That is literally it, and I can begin to make my statement. Do you need to read it again? I can repost it for you.
@kibblesays I don't "have" to do shit. Truth of the matter is your argument shouldn't be dependent on a yes or no answer from anyone. If anything, you should have the intelligence to state your position regardless of the answer given. That's what I've been asking you to do.
@Seiryu64 My argument doesn't hinge on the answer of your question, I've already told you this. I've already told you that I need to know you're on board with what I'm about to say before I say it. I have a point, it doesn't rely on your answer, I just need to know you understand where I'm coming from when I say it.
Stop getting so defensive and just say yes or no so I can get on with this.
Your argument can bring me to your side, or maybe it won't. There's no way to know unless you actually present your case. You repeatedly asking me to readdress a single question of yours only stands as proof that you're looking for excuses to not say what you have to say. Cut it out, and just say it. You don't need me "on board" beforehand. Make your case, and thing will fall wherever they may...
@Seiryu64 I just don't understand why you won't say yes or no. I mean at this point its more than obvious that your answer is "yes." Otherwise you would have answered by now.
But rather then answer for you without giving you a choice, I'd rather you be a big boy and answer for yourself. Apparently that isn't going to happen because you have to much pride to say it.
I'll ask one more time, yes or no. If you don't say either, I'm going to assume your answer is yes. Go.
@kibblesays Honestly, I don't even remember the question at this point. All I know about it now is that you've been using it as an excuse to stall. I also know that you've clearly been lying every time you said that your argument didn't hinge on it. Otherwise, you would've made your statement by now instead of continually harping on a matter of questionable importance. If you don't need it to make your case, why have you NOT done so at this point? I've given you every opportunity...
@kibblesays How hard would it be for you to respond hypothetically anyway? If my answer was "yes" then what? If I said "no," what difference does that make?
Simply put, your excuse for not stating your position up to this point is total bullshit.
@Seiryu64 If you answer yes, I can begin my point (don't call it bullshit before I even write it you twit) and if you say no then I'll question your general knowledge (because I can't imagine anyone saying no to this) and begin showing you proof of why your answer should be yes.
However, if you just answer yes, then I can begin right away without wasting time giving examples on things that are so obvious they aren't even worth bringing up.
Thats why I need your answer, so please, yes or no?
@kibblesays So...your argument hinges on the response to this question then (at least in your mind). I'm sorry, but this is still bullshit. Even with the set-up for a hypothetical, you're NOT presenting an argument. You have no excuse anymore. Make your claim.
@Seiryu64 I believe this is the third time I've said, my point doesn't hinge on your answer. It just lets me know if I have to go into unnecessary detail or not
I know I'm not presenting an argument, because I haven't started yet, because you're not telling me if I need to explain more then I really have to. I'm not making excuses, I actually can't wait to begin this so you'll shut up about this but you just need to say yes or no. Thats it, just one word. Please for the love of god just say it.
@kibblesays Do you not know what words mean? If your argument doesn't hinge on the answer to this question, then you can just present the fucking thing. You ran out of excuses the instant you said that!
@Seiryu64 Holy fucking balls man. Ok, fine. Since you won't say yes or no, its clear your answer is yes.
Now because I'm answering for you, I'm going to explain myself, and then you're going to argue when I'm done, then I'm going to have to explain why its right, which is what I would do now, but you won't answer the question. So in the end, you're just wasting time for both of us.
So, do you accept this? If you do, I'll just start. If you don't then answer for yourself.
@kibblesays ...and you still haven't made a fucking argument. You've stalled for over a fucking week now!! I've invited you to present your case at least 5x now, and all you've done is come up with excuse after excuse as to why you can't do it.
You've lied repeatedly. You have no argument. You never did. Good day.
@Seiryu64 You really just don't get it do you. I can't believe you, I honestly can't. First off, what did I lie about? Second, I have an argument, you just won't let me start cause you won't fucking say yes or no cause you keep stalling by saying I'm stalling Now I answered for you and just asked for your consensus for it before I begin cause I try to be a decent person, and you STILL found it in you to not answer my question by stalling.
I bet next you're going to say I'm stalling, just answer.
@kibblesays Each time you've said your case doesn't hinge on the answer to this question is a lie. Otherwise, you wouldn't beg for an answer because you wouldn't need it. The fact that you're still asking is further proof that said claim is bullshit. Now, I've already said that I don't know what question you're referring to anymore since it seems as though you're referring to a different one than what I addressed. Either way, I don't see an argument here. And the word is "consent" not consensus.
@Seiryu64 Here, the question is: "depending on what country the movie would have been made in, the majority ethnicity would have had the lead role. Is that wrong?" That took me two seconds to find again.
And its not a lie, it just lets me know if I have to waste time explaining myself or not. But you won't let me know if I have to or not for some reason.
You don't see an argument here cause there isn't one cause you won't answer. I don't want a paragraph, I was a yes, or no. Thats it.
@kibblesays Your argument "doesn't hinge on the answer to the question" but you won't present it without one. No matter what your reasoning may be, this is pretty much the definition of dishonesty. I don't owe you a fucking shortcut in a debate. Are you retarded? So what if you have to explain yourself. IT'S YOUR ARGUMENT!!! It's not my job to make things easier for you, and you're not presenting an argument because you're a lazy coward. That's the truth of the matter, isn't it?
@kibblesays As for your question: Now I know for a fact that I've addressed it several times.That you want to boil the issue down to "yes or no" informs me of how shortsighted and uninformed you are on how film industries work. That, and the pitiful nature of your argument as a yes or no answer only shows how stupid you are in either response. Allow me to elaborate: if you say "yes" then you're deliberately ignoring facts about both the source material and the resources of a film industry.
@kibblesays This is an adaptation of Avatar: The Last Airbender, an American property based entirely on elements from several Asian cultures. Meaning that it didn't need to be adjusted to suit an American audience. Casting an ethnic majority in a film is a tool used to cater to the viewer, but it already had been through English. Plus, "yes" ignores other avenues that a country's film industry would take instead of a straight-forward, live-action production. Take "Supaidaa-Man" for example.
@kibblesays The Japanese Spider-Man is NOT Peter Parker which makes the show a separate interpretation for a separate and specific audience. Then take Full Metal Alchemist, a series largely about non-Asian characters produced as animation instead of live-action. But the dumbest aspect to a "yes" response is the overall cultural insensitivity. Casting the ethnic majority for Avatar both hijacks and demeans cultures by placing importance of one over another. So a "yes" makes you a bigoted dumbass.
@Seiryu64 By the way, I still have yet to make my point. And you still have yet to just say yes or no. Like, I get it, you addressed the question and said what both answers mean. I got it ok?
But you never actually picked one. Now, just for the sake of curiosity, not even for the argument anymore, would you say yes or no.
Whatever you say, even if you just bitch to me about this, I'll state my point. Proooooomise <3
@kibblesays You're not fooling anybody. And your question comes from a place of intentional stupidity that only makes you look bad as it deliberately misconstrues matters for the sake of defending actions that ARE discriminatory, exclusionary, and unjustly limiting. Asian actors got the shaft in the casting of The Last Airbender, and they often do in Hollywood. TOO often, and you're not seeing it here because you don't want to. Stop pretending that you can't. Be better than this...
@Seiryu64 So you're saying, its ok for any other country to take what America has made, and change everything about it to fit their cultural preference is just fine.
But when America takes their own cartoon, and casts three white actors for the lead roles for characters that don't even have ethnicities, well thats just full blown racist? Thats absolutely absurd, its just not racist cause they aren't white. Cause all white people are racist bastards, right?
@kibblesays The lengths you're going to in order to get this so wrong are amazing. For starters, Marvel worked with Toei to develop the Japanese Spider-Man show. So they didn't "take" anything. Plus, your desperation in distorting matters bleeds through here since you know that Toei Spider-Man is a completely separate take meant to introduce the property to a completely new audience. The Last Airbender IS NOT comparable on ANY level...
@Seiryu64 I know they aren't comparable. Because in the show they aren't Asian, so they can be any ethnicity in the movie and the story would still remain the same. And there are still more Asians in the film then white people, despite the larger demand for white heros. You know, this being a white majority country, thats just common sense.
@kibblesays Wrong again. They're not comparable because The Last Airbender isn't a presentation to an all-new audience with a different cultural understanding and language. It's a distorted reproduction of the story that lifts Asian culture from Asian people. Toei Spider-Man did nothing of the sort as it presented a show all its own (a precursor to Super Sentai). And stop bullshitting, dude. If these actors weren't white, you wouldn't be spouting this "any ethnicity" crap. You're still wrong...
@kibblesays You can't claim that the world of Avatar: The Last Airbender isn't based in Asian mythology. So if the characters "can be any ethnicity" then why aren't they black? Latino? Entirely Indian or Middle Eastern? How about it? Makes as much sense as putting white actors in heroic roles in an Asian environment...
@Seiryu64 Of course its based on Asian mythology, there's no denying that. However, the characters in the show don't have an actual ethnicity, only their culture is based of Asian society.
And there are some black people, Asians, and Indians. And they aren't just background characters, they're also the main heros.
@kibblesays But again, no NATIONALITY doesn't equate to the characters being white. We know they're not as EVERY aspect of the world they live in tells us as much. The world is Asian therefore the characters are too. Look to Lord of the Rings for an example.
And your "main heroes" claim...bullshit. Pure bullshit. What black, Asian, Latino, or Indian characters are you referring to? Are they making up characters so Aang isn't the lead character anymore?
@Seiryu64 Pure bullshit? Was that a serious statement? Ok here: Zuko, Iroh, May, Ty Lee- 4 Indian heroes. Toph, Suki- 2 Asian heroes. 4+2= 6 Aang, Sokka, Katara- 3 white heroes. 6>3. I really don't know how to simplify it better then that.
Aang is THE lead, but he's not the only lead. We've already had this discussion, please don't try to tell me again that Aang is the only lead role in the story. Thats so wrong its embarrassing.
@kibblesays You gotta stop with this "not the only lead" thing. It's not true now, and never will be as the title deconstructs your claim before you make it. "The Last Airbender" refers to ONE character. Therefore, Aang is THE lead and that's all there is. At the end of the day, only he will save the world. He will defeat Ozai, bringing the war to an end. The others will help, but they don't save the day and it's not their story as much as it is Aang's. Stop this. Your claim fails HARD.
@Seiryu64 You know its so funny when you think about it. You keep talking about how Hollywood is so dick for making certain ethnicities only star in stereotypical movies, and you're fighting to have Asian star in this movie. And yet, this movie is all about Asian influences and martial arts, which is their stereotypes in movies. Thoughts on that?
@kibblesays It actually makes things worse. Everything about this SCREAMS Asia, and they didn't cast a single person from that culture in a role that matters. That makes TLA worse than The Forbidden Kingdom (I hate that movie for a NUMBER of reasons) in pushing Asian people to the wayside in order to give central focus to a white protagonist. At least that movie didn't give white actors Asian roles to play...
Its rooted from Asian culture, it isn't actually Asian culture, THAT is a fact. And seeing how the Fire Nation landscape is based off Iceland, that punches holes in the "all Asian" theory. And guess what, the movie is still heavily based on Asian culture. Only the cast isn't Asian, and the characters in the show aren't Asian either, so there is no difference.
@kibblesays This is dishonest. So you're really trying to say that the clothing, the architecture, the food, the eating utensils, the Japanese top-knots hairstyle adorn by people in the Fire Nation, the face-paint and armor of the Kyoshi warriors, the twin Dao and demon mask from Japanese Noh theatre that Zuko wears as "The Blue Spirit," Ba Gua, Hung Gar, Tai Chi, Chu Gar Southern Praying Mantis, Norther Shaolin Long Fist, Chinese calligraphy, Hinduism, Buddhism and MORE are NOT Asian culture?
@Seiryu64 I really can't believe how stupid you are. I've said their culture is Asian, its so obvious it is. There's no denying it, especially since the creators confirmed it. But, what isn't Asian, are the people themselves. Nobody in the show has an actual race, thats a fact. So in the movie, they're still keeping all the Asian influences, just like in the show. In fact they're adding more.
But as for the characters themselves, nothing has changed.
@kibblesays Back to ad hominems, just like a douche...
And just like a moron to claim that nothing is different about the characters. The Fire Nation alone destroys this claim. Then there's the irrefutable evidence in the art book that Mike and Bryan envisioned the characters as Asian. I'd provide a link, but it'd be considered spam here (thanks, youtube users of the past). The inspiration for Aang was cited as being one of the child monks from Shaolin: Wheel of Life. But wait, there's more...
@Seiryu64 You're right and wrong. You're right cause yeah, they did get rid of it. Yet you're wrong because they turned it into gibberish for a reason. Because its made up now, it gives an even greater feel of a made up world, yet still very heavily based on Asian culture. Which is the exact feeling it brings, which is what it is. So I guess its not too bad is it.
@kibblesays You're wrong...again. They did it to further disassociate distinct Asian culture from the film so as to justify the lack of prominent Pan-Asian faces (as opposed to their "diverse" cast) in this reasonably Asian world. What really makes it even worse is that it only helps to defeat the purpose behind the creation of the show which was to craft a fantasy world devoid of the usual Eurocentric myths and folklore that is found in a lot of American works of fantasy.
Two: If you think the movie is racist, you're a racebender. Thats all there is to it.
Three: But they're BASED off Native Americans. And according to you racebenders, if something is based off something else, it is that. Period. So is that true too?
Four: Yeah? Cause I look at Noah Ringer all dressed up and I said "That's Aang!!!" Along with everyone else who's seen him.
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl if that were the case, then delete all your comments, why only a couple and leave the rest? lol... really. that's very convincing.
And YOU need to seek pride elsewhere...
Spriggan107 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl well that was fun... my bad for hoping you were just a deluded little fangirl that needed some fantasy escapism to hold on to... now I realize beyond all doubt... you. are. a. moron.
Spriggan107 1 year ago
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl yeah you said you were going to wait.. after deleting so many of your comments HAHAHA!!
Do YOU have anything in your brain?
Spriggan107 1 year ago
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@Xtrasupershadowgirl yeah you said you were going to wait.. after deleting so many of your comments HAHAHA!!
Do YOU have anything in your brain?
Spriggan107 1 year ago
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Let's try to imagine the books of Lord of the Rings, none of the story mention being caucasian, but it was clearly a European centric mythology storyline. How about if someone made that movie instead being casts with Blacks and Latinos, obviously not fitting the characters? I'm sure you'll be able to just brush it off easiy, especially if you're a fan :)
Spriggan107 1 year ago
The sad reality is, fans of this show are so into the great things drawn from Asian culture about it, they wish they were in it. Turning casts white, helps them relate to the characters more, and they will defend their point of view so as to be able to keep their fantasy straight...
Spriggan107 1 year ago
@Spriggan107 I never read Lord of the Rings, and I've only seen part of the 3rd movie. I can't argue or defend something that I have no knowledge on. Besides, I'm not here to argue about other movies. If you use it as a point to say The Last Airbender itself is racist, I'd listen to you. But since that point is leaning towards "Hollywood in general is racist" I don't really care, cause thats not what I'm arguing.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays man Kibble you're a pretty thick but transparent one arent ya. Its not that you dont understand, its just easier for you to dismiss anyone pointing out the racism of Hollywood casting because people like you are infatuated with the asian mythology that empowers the show itself but you can relate to the fantasy even more if they were played by whites.
Spriggan107 1 year ago
@Spriggan107 No, its that I do understand. I understand that this isn't racist (mostly cause every other country in the world does this). And the fact that all the Asian stuff is staying in the movie. They're changing nothing, seeing how the characters don't have a race in the show.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@Spriggan107 Seeing it for what it is?! The guy doesn't even know what a supporting character means! He thinks Aang is the one and only real important character in the show and the rest of the characters don't matter. For that, he's an ass.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays You still can't see, even with so much explanation, the Pattern of Hollywood's racial bias casting habits, because you have never been on the cheated end, therefore have the luxury to hold on to your fantasy that white actors can play an Asian role with Asian names, in an obviously asian story setting. That, would garner you worse names than ASS.
But I see it's pointless to use logic on a daydreamer. Go forth young White Airbender with an Asian Name based of an Asian shaolin kid
Spriggan107 1 year ago
@Spriggan107 And the same could be said for Asians, which is why when there was an Asian Macbeth, they changed every single thing about it. It took place in an Asian country, with Asian characters, Asian culture, language, everything. For the exact reason you said for us.
But thats not racist right? They're just Asians, so its ok.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays no they're not the same in the least. You really need to stop comparing what goes on with other countries, because the USA is the only one that promises equality within its citizens. If you can't uphold that, go tell congress to rewrite the constitution.
We have no problem watching white-actors all the time. What sucks is this was another chance for us to see Asians in US theatres, and white actors are replacing the lead roles. Guess, you just can't get enough of yourselves huh?
Spriggan107 1 year ago
@Spriggan107 Oh look at that, you didn't answer the question. How typical of you people. Now please, tell me, why isn't that the same? Why can they get away with it?
kibblesays 1 year ago
Oh look, people from Racebending ASSUMING things that aren't true and brainwashing people into thinking they're right, how typical.
kibblesays 1 year ago
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl So easy to call people losers when you're part of the group benefiting from the thievery. Its just the way you were brought up, afterall if you've grown used to your ancestral history taking whats not theirs, its ok to steal people's heritage too.- Superidiotgirl
Spriggan107 1 year ago
@Spriggan107 ...did you just call me a super idiot girl?
The way I was brought up? The fuck are you talking about?
*facepalm* what is with you people and this win and lose shit. I don't care about that, at all. I just don't want to come on youtube and put up with this stupid crap every time I do. Its literally been a year now since I've been having these arguments, I'm so sick of them and just want them to be over with.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays silly Kibble, why don't you read at who that reply was meant for before you wasting your time responding.
Spriggan107 1 year ago
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl yeah, because the Creators went to China, carefully observed the cultures, and Shaolin monks, then designed all the architecture with Asian influence, the cities and villages all have Asian Names, and the Characters have Asian names... and still, an airhead bitch like you has to be literally told by the Creators that the characters are Asian before you can figure out they're Asians?!
meh, it seems you can't tell an Asian from an Asian-wannabe. Keep dreaming stupido.
Spriggan107 1 year ago
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl extrasuperdumbbitch, Why would anyone need to ASSume anything if its already clear all signs point to them being asian.
How can you not associate culture with ethnicity?? Im sure in your little wannabe mind, you believe the creators made up this whole fantasy world based on Asian mythology and cultures just so they can populate it with white people. Keep dreaming your desperate dream.
Spriggan107 1 year ago
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl FUNNY how you associate cultural references as Fantasy as if someone made them up so as to not be associated with any ethnic background.
You've got a Sad fucked up definition of open-minded when you clearly advocate a denial of Asians from representing their own culture just so YOU can feel good about looking at another whitey play make-believe. It's summer time, go out and tan yourself in a corner! And maybe you'll pass off as Katara someday.
Spriggan107 1 year ago
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl The only BS worth reading to you apparently is what's coming out of your mouth.
It's ok to cast white people to play Asian roles! XtraSuperMakeBelievegirl
Spriggan107 1 year ago
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl man, I can't even describe just how bad your attempt at insults fail... lol*
Keep Dreaming weabo! Someday they'll even make a movie called Last Negro on Earth... starring Tom Hanks!
Spriggan107 1 year ago
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl can't exactly be a wannabe Asian
if I'm already an Asian. lol
Spriggan107 1 year ago
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl yeah you are. A little late now to make believe you're not.
You should be PROUD of your heritage,... built on stealing someone else's! XD
Spriggan107 1 year ago
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl YOU DUMB SHIT! Why don't you gather the FACTS first before making up another bullshit excuse why they didn't cast asians as lead roles.
They had an Open Casting Call SPECIFICALLY MENTIONING (CAUCASIANS or otherwise!)... nice try though.. fail but nice try.
Spriggan107 1 year ago
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl FAKE ONE?? Haha... this came from M. Knight himself, idiot.
Get your head straight! You're not asian.... stop make believing already.
Spriggan107 1 year ago
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl pff... yeah, keep telling that to yourself, if your house of BS is crumbling around you.
That Cast Call sheet was directly from the date M. Knight was being interviewed by Mike and Brian.... sorry weabo.,.. you're gonna need a LOT of whiteout to erase that part of history. Just go buy the DVDs, and actually listen to the commentariies, if you're going to keep insisting M&B didn't refer to their characters as Asians... you're so sad :D
Spriggan107 1 year ago
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl keep telling yourself that idiot. Of course you're not going to care, Truth is light, and you'd rather hide in the darkness so you can keep playing makebelieve. As desperate as it seems.
Spriggan107 1 year ago
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl ACTORS were chosen out of discriminatory practices of Hollywood, if you've not even been aware of that before, I've been wasting my time on an ignorant fangirl who insists all is well in the world.
BRUCE LEE himself got replaced by a white actor (DAVID C) in a series about Kung Fu monk that he personally helped write. Fast forward to our time, last year a movie called 21 about Asian American poker legends, and they all got replaced by white actors. yeah, no racism at all.
Spriggan107 1 year ago
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl no I thought you were done a while ago,.. lol just humoring you, but I guess you really wanted to believe it's ok to have white people playing roles meant for other ethnicities...
what they just couldnt' find any good actors that matched Katara and Sokka's inuit complexion? They gotta pick the palest of them all?
Tellin' ya... can't for the OBAMA movie. I'd say Richard Gere is gonna play him.
Spriggan107 1 year ago
@Spriggan107
Wow, you sound like more of an idiot the more I read what you say...
trivium666fan 1 year ago
@trivium666fan what's the matter... can't stand it when someone points out the bullshit in your own viewpoints?
Spriggan107 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl they even had a good experienced ASIAN actor audition for Aang who looked and sounded like him with experience under his belt as far as acting, then they hire a White Kid who has NO HISTORY in acting!>...
youtube.com/watch?v=54i1GvKCdYk
Spriggan107 1 year ago
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl stop putting FYI, you should use FYBS.... it seems you like to phrase your opinions as facts.
Of course you'd think his acting stunk, he's too tan for your taste :) ... need a little bit more Pale action...
Spriggan107 1 year ago
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl it's really amazing how you can say this kid's acting stunk when you haven't even seen ANYTHING from that white kid they picked. but whatever, like I said, racial background replacement gets you closer to the characters and story even more... off to dreamland
Spriggan107 1 year ago
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl there's no every little detail complained here stupid.
It's quiet the OPPOSITE. All the details about the show points to a primarily Asian Cast because of everything they represented,... its hardcore fans like you that get obsessed with the story and won't let go that they are not of the same background as the characters!
Spriggan107 1 year ago
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl Yeah OK! Can't wait to see an OBAMA movie and have Tom Cruise play it because he's got better acting.
nice try again... no actually, you're attempts are just embarrassing now.
Spriggan107 1 year ago
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl and YES, you already said plenty about they picked: Let me jog your mind because you seem to have a very SHORT MEMORY of your own statements.
"They Picked the best for the movie". then says the asian kid actor's acting skills stunk, did you even see any?? NO.
Spriggan107 1 year ago
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Xtrasupershadowgirl 1 year ago
@Xtrasupershadowgirl you're the one who made up your mind about Perries,.. and that all the actors picked are the best when you haven't seen the kid's acting yet. All in the name of believing the Casting Call was a fair and just procedure.. ha!
keep deluding yourself moron.
Spriggan107 1 year ago
@kibblesays Disprove it then...
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 I have, to over a dozen of you racebenders. All of you have thought you were right. Every argument I've been in, I've won.
And please don't try to start one with me, please. I'm so tired of repeating myself.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays I'm not affiliated with Racebending,com, so look who's making assumptions here. And you only think you've won those arguments because anyone can convince themselves of that as long as they're not willing to admit when they may or may not be wrong. I'd love to hear your position, but try to be a bit less smug. You're off to a bad start already...
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 Ugh, when I say racebenders I mean everyone who opposes the movie, not everyone from the website.
Are you serious? Really? You're one of the cocky ones aren't you. Ok fine, tell me what you don't like about The Last Airbender. Tell me what you think is wrong about it, and I'll tell you my side.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays What did I say about the smugness...? See, if you had a valid point then you would make it instead of all of the hmm-ing and hah-ing. You've got such an airtight case for the film, then let's hear it! Y'know, instead of shallow attempts at marginalizing people with an opposing view from your own. Don't be an internet cliche...
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 ...but you're doing the exact same thing.
Look, whatever. Ok, I say there is no racism in this movie at all, what do you have to say?
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays I say the racism is unintentional, but that doesn't make it any less prevalent. The casting notices showed a distinct preferences for caucasian actors in their wording, and it's no coincidence that that's what they found. That's what they were looking meaning that actors of color were already seen as a fall-back if they couldn't find a white actor for the part. The cast speaks for itself, but what makes it worse is so-called diversity.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@kibblesays Ultimately, people of color are only featured in this film as supporting roles, extras, or villains. Meanwhile, the 3 main heroes are all caucasian which presents a narrative in which a great white hope is the only chance to save the world against evil brown people. So, it's not that Paramount was deliberately trying to offend anyone. But by whitewashing the cast, and pushing people of color off to the sidelines, they've made a movie that co-opts Asian culture without respecting it.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 Actually, Zuko, Iroh, Suki, Toph, May and Ty Lee are all heros and POC in the end of the story. Thats double the amount of white heros.
Southern Water Tribe: Inuits. Northern Water Tribe: Whites and Inuits. Earth Kingdom: Asians and Africans. Fire Nation: Indian Asians. Air Nomads: Mix of all cultures.
Well looks like white people are the overall minority in both heros and overall population of the world, yeah, that sure is some evil white washing.
Anything else?
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays This is your airtight argument? Zuko, Iroh, Suki, Toph, May, and Ty Lee are all supporting characters. Not leads. Plus, May and Ty Lee spend the majority of the narrative as a threat to the heroes. And your listing of the extras further proves that your argument is a joke. Aang, Sokka, and Katara are still white, and these characters are ALWAYS heroic unlike Zuko. It is the white hero that ultimately saves the day while the POC depend on him to do so. Diversity isn't a numbers game.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 You're really going to argue that Zuko, Iroh, and Toph are only supporting characters? They're like the top 3 fan favorites, they do a hell of a lot more then support in the story. The other three still have a large impact on the story, don't sell them short.
How does that prove its a joke? That the majority of their worlds population is POC, which is true, thats something very important for the movie. If it was all white people I know you'd bring that up for your argument, right?
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays Are you serious? Are either Zuko, Iroh, or Toph the lead character of the series? No, and you know that. Stop pretending fan favoritism equates to overall importance. And stop making assumptions while you're at it too.
By the way, you're losing this debate.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 Hahaha! Oh man, you really don't think that at the very least Zuko isn't a lead role. Was that a serious statement, or are you just making anything up at this point?
In season 1, Zuko was the main bad guy. The creators used him to switch over to the bad guys side to let everyone know what was going on with the Fire Nation. Later on in episodes, they some were all about him. That even have an episode called "Zuko alone." That doesn't happen with supporting characters, ever.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays Since when has Zuko EVER been "The Last Airbender?" Until that happens, he's not the lead. End of discussion.
Nice attempt at a detour, but you've still got nothing...
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 No, he isn't "the lead" but he is "a lead." Did you ever attend any type of english class in your life? Cause there isn't just one lead role, there can be dozens. Did you really not know that?
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays Obviously you haven't because if you had you'd realize that there is one character is *the most importance* to the entire narrative of Avatar: The Last Airbender, and it ain't Zuko. That means that Zuko, while integral to the narrative, is not the main focus at all because he is always secondary to Aang. That makes him a supporting character. An important one, but still a supporting character.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 *facepalm* you seriously believe there is only one lead role in stories? Wow, please go to school tomorrow and learn about this. Just because a character in the story isn't THE lead character, doesn't mean they're automatically a supporting character. There can be many lead characters.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays Feigning stupidity won't make this any less embarrassing. THIS story has one main character above all others: Aang. He's the titular Avatar, for crying out loud. So cut the bullshit already.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 If you'd answer the question I can make it relevant to this discussion, stop avoiding this please.
Yeah, every story ever created by any human being have one overall main character, but there are other lead characters. In every story. There isn't any bullshit, you've just never learned this I guess.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays This is nothing BUT bullshit. Semantics aside, the fact is that Zuko is a supporting character no matter the level of importance. His role is ultimately helping the lead character. So, again: cut the bullshit and move on.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@kibblesays I've seen this argument before, and it never held any weight. You're attempting to ignore the fact that the villains are all non-white actors while the main hero of the ENTIRE narrative is a white kid. So while you try to rack this all up under a makeshift score-card, stop for a minute to look at the roles being filled...
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 I'm clearly not ignoring it, seeing how I'm arguing it.
Do you think I haven't done that? You know why he's probably white? Cause this movie is being filmed in America. If it was filmed in Japan or China, he'd be Asian. Mexico, spanish. Africa, African. This is just what any country would do, other countries do do this actually. And seeing how they don't have an ethnicity in the show, they're free to do that.
Am I wrong?
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays But you're REALLY not. So what if the film is being made in America. There are Asian-Americans, so that argument just fell flat. The US is an incredibly diverse nation, and the assumption (there you go again) that American = white IS A MAJOR PART OF THE PROBLEM. So is the assumption that no ethnicity = white because that's absurd given their surroundings. The countries you listed don't have the kind of diversity that we do, so there's no comparison. So, yes. You are very wrong.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 Well technically America does equal white, seeing how we're the majority race. But its more well known to be a diverse country.
Actually no diversity=no diversity. The movie isn't filled with white people, stop making it seem like it is.
I wasn't asking if I was wrong about that, I was asking if I was wrong about the fact that depending on what country the movie would have been made in, the majority ethnicity would have had the lead role. Is that wrong?
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays Yes, you are still wrong. American does not now nor has it EVER equated to white. And I'm not making it seem like the film is "filled with white people." Just the main heroic roles. Not the characters that come along later, or switch sides in the conflict, but the central characters that oppose the Fire Nation from start to finish. They're all white. The only reason you're seeing it that way is because of your own bias (American = white, for example).
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 What detour? Everything I'm saying is relating to this argument. I was discussing Zuko's relevance to the story, thats not a detour.
Yeah you are, saying its "whitewashed" and "white man saves the day."
Suki opposes the Fire Nation from start to finish, she's Asian, thoughts?
You still didn't answer my question, if this movie was made in another country, would the majority ethnicity have the lead role, yes or no?
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays "What detour?" You're parsing words in an attempt to redirect the discussion to the importance of Zuko's role when that's not what this debate is about. That's a sidetrack.
Suki is a supporting character, is she not? You're back to square one.
I've stated the FACT that the main hero of the entire is portrayed as white. YOU turned that into "the movie is filled with white people." Your problem, not mine.
This movie isn't being made in another country, so stop trying to skirt issues.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 You said Zuko was a supporting character after I said he would become a hero in the end so it didn't count. I was stating exactly why he was a lead role in the story to prove he is in fact a main hero of POC in the movie. I'd that thats pretty relevant.
Dear god... just because she's a supporting character doesn't mean she doesn't have an impact and importance for the story. If she didn't, then what's the point of creating her character in the first place?
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays No, I've ALWAYS said Zuko was a supporting character because that's what he is. He supports Aang once he joins him, so does Suki.
You're obviously grasping at straws here. You're not even on topic anymore. You've abandoned the claim that this movie is diverse because that's not true. One of your own argument proves that as it takes the same route plenty of American films take by placing white heroes in the forefront. So can we stop wasting time here? You've lost.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 I'm not going to "cut the bullshit" because there is none to cut. Now this is really just about me being upset about how you think Aang is the only lead role in the show. I can't believe you honestly think that. I just asked another racebender if they think Zuko is a lead role or not, I'm gonna go ask friends of mine who are fans of the show too.
Lets get other fair opinions on this matter.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays Don't give a shit. It won't change the fact that Zuko SUPPORTS Aang which makes him a supporting character. We both know that. So why are you trying to color things any other way? Oh, right...your "argument."
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 So, by your logic, a character that supports another character, is then a supporting character. God damn you really don't know anything do you.
Really? So I didn't just go back and read exactly that?
Well if you'd just answer the question, I'd continue my argument. But seeing how you're lacking the ability to answer it for whatever reason, I can't do anything until then. We're waiting on you buddy, yes or no.
And enough with the "..." what does that even mean?
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays Obviously, you want to disregard what words actually mean. Are you even paying attention to what you're saying at this point? "So, by your logic, a character that supports another character, is then a supporting character."
You lose. Good day, sir.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 ...but thats exactly what you're saying. You actually just said "No, I've ALWAYS said Zuko was a supporting character because that's what he is. He supports Aang once he joins him." So what I take from that statement, you think a supporting character is someone who actually supports another character. Which is so wrong its painful.
And you still have not answered my question. It has great relevance to what we're talking about, so please answer it.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays You're still at it, huh? First, you don't have a fucking question, nor do you have an argument. You're still trying to make the case that a "character that supports another character" ISN'T a supporting character, and that's so stupid it's making my eyes bleed. You can't make the case that Zuko is the main character, and no matter how you mince words, his role in the story is complimentary to Aang's from start to finish.
Stop embarrassing yourself, and move on.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 I didn't convince anybody, I just asked them and they said "yeah he is." I'll gladly get more people to answer if you want, I'm already 3 for 3.
I'm only going on and on about Zuko because I don't want someone like you believing that Aang is the only lead hero in the story. Because Zuko also is, and Iroh, and Toph, and Suki also are, and in the movie they're all POC. Which is all about the casting of the film adaptation.
Seriously, the "you're loosing" thing is so immature, enough.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays Then you asked people that also don't know what words mean. You're conflating "supporting" with "background" and that's why you're wrong. A supporting character can be complex and well-developed. But in the case of a narrative that has a single character at the focal point, and Avatar does, it becomes a matter of their relation to that character. Aang is THE main character as there is no one that is equally important to the story. End of discussion.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@kibblesays You seem to forget that you were the one that bragged about winning this debate before. I'm just showing you that you haven't and you're not. Y'know, staying on the level...
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 First, I never bragged about winning this debate, I said that I've beaten many other racebenders in debates, I never once said you. Check that again.
Thats not all a supporting character is dude. My friend who's in his 4 year of college with a 4.0 GPA laughed at you and gave the actual definition of it. Zuko is a lead character. Not THE lead, but a lead. There can be numerous lead characters in stories, not just one.
And you still haven't answered the question, yes or no?
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays "Every argument I've been in, I've won."
Now you're just a liar. It's always a desperate scramble to redefine your own meaning with you. You claim to have won every argument, but you think that's not bragging? Bullshit. And I really don't give a tumbling fuck what your friends think. Of course they're likely to take your side because they know you. Doesn't change the fact that you're all wrong, and Zuko is not THE lead. He is still secondary, and thus a supporting role. Face facts.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 Exactly, thats with other people. Not you. Like I just said. Thanks for proving me right.
Its not just my friends, I got a racebender to say the same thing.
Are you seriously that stupid? How many time have I said "Not THE lead, but A lead." I'm pretty sure it was around 4 times, yet you keep saying that. It makes him A lead character. Everyone except you seems to realize this. But since you keep screwing everything else up, I'm not surprised.
Answer my question already, yes or no?
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays We've been over this a thousand times, and you STILL have no argument for the casting. And just because you and the people you interact with have a hard time comprehending the written word doesn't make it my problem. Even by your definition of *A* lead character, Zuko is still of lesser importance to the story than Aang. A fact that you can't dispute. This, by definition, makes him a supporting character in the grand scheme of things. What about that don't you understand, you git?
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 I do, but you never answered my question to start off my argument. You completely ignore the fact that I have one, and just say I have nothing to say. Stop ignoring it: "depending on what country the movie would have been made in, the majority ethnicity would have had the lead role. Is that wrong?"
Answer the fucking question already.
And no, he's A lead character. He's not a supporting character. There's an ACTUAL definition for that that Zuko doesn't fall under. Look it up.
kibblesays 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@kibblesays Liar. You're still clinging to this bullshit definition of yours for the sake of your failing argument. As for your "question," I answered you twice.
"There are Asian-Americans, so that argument fell flat. The US is a diverse nation, and the assumption that American = white IS YOUR PROBLEM. So is the assumption that no ethnicity = white because that ignores their surroundings. Other countries don't have the kind of diversity as we do, so there's no comparison. You are very wrong."
Seiryu64 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@kibblesays "I did address this bullshit excuse. First, America is proud of its status as the "melting pot" which means that this aside of yours is irrelevant. In another country, they would have the issue of language to deal with on top of appearance. Meaning that they would have limited resources in the way of finding ACTORS of a different ethnicity that also spoke the language, That's not the case here, so this isn't an issue."
So, once again, you're fucking lying and grasping as straws.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@kibblesays Now, you keep claiming that your argument is hinged on that question. Well, I've now told you 4x how there is no comparison seeing as how an American film production has a wider net of resources than Hong Kong, Japan, India, etc. There are plenty of actors within and outside of the country of various ethnic backgrounds that all speak English. And as "the melting pot of the world," American is not synonymous with white. To think that is actually racist and incredibly ignorant.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 The argument doesn't "hinge on this question," but it will start it off. Now answer it and stop wasting time, you're like the 4th racebender to avoid this question when I asked it, try to be at least little better then the rest of them.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays You are desperately full of shit. I've addressed your question directly, and you're still running away the fact that you have no argument. Fact of the matter is casting white actors in roles like this insults everyone. It insults the culture depicted by co-opting and whitewashing it. It insults audiences by assuming that we're all too bigoted to relate to people that don't look like us even though non-whites have been doing so for ages. Worst of all, it insults future generations...
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@kibblesays ...by limiting their view of themselves. Casting practices like these tell non-white children that there's something wrong with them. That they can be the bad guy, the sidekick, but never the hero because they're different. That their experience isn't American because they're not white.
If you can agree with ANY of that, go fuck yourself. But since I know you're not gonna do that, I'll invite you to tell me exactly how these casting practices DON'T send that message. Good luck.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 Yes or no. Stop avoiding the question with these detailed answers. Just yes, or no.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays You can either make your case or shut the fuck up. I'm not repeating myself again...
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 ooooooooooor you can can answer my question, because in order to make my case I need to know if you're on board with me or not. It isn't a very hard question, or answer. Yes or no. You don't need to say anything else.
Yes
or
No?
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays So, you're still bullshitting then?
Look, you either have a case or you don't. But neither instance relies on me, so again: Make your case or just shut the fuck up.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@kibblesays So, you're still bullshitting then?
Look, you either have a case or you don't. But neither instance relies on me, so again: Make your case or just shut the fuck up.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 oooor you can can answer my question, because in order to make my case I need to know if you're on board with me or not. It isn't a very hard question, or answer. Yes or no. You don't need to say anything else.
Yes
or
No?
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays So, you're still bullshitting then?
Look, you either have a case or you don't. But neither instance relies on me, so again: Make your case or just shut the fuck up.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 Yes or no. I will begin to make my claim once you swallow your pride and answer the question.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays Already answered. You're just having a problem making it fit your mold because I'm not going along with your bullshit. Make your claim.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 Yes or no. I'm not saying it until you answer with either a yes, or a no. Since you "already answered" you should have no problem saying it again, but in a much more simple form right?
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays Look, debate aside, if you have a position then it shouldn't contingent on anything that someone else says. That's a weak argument. Now, do you have a case or not?
If so, quit dicking around and say it. THAT should be easier for you than repeating myself for the umpteenth time...
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 It not repeating myself if you've never said it. I'm not starting until you answer yes or no. It would really help if you stopped doing whatever you can, you know, saying I have no case, weak argument, blah blah blah, and just answer it so we can get on with this already.
You wanted to argue, so please do me the favor and let me begin. Yes or no?
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays I'm not stopping you. You're too busy bullshitting around instead of making a point. So for the last time: Make your statement.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 I do not get why you don't understand this. All you have to do is send me a comment saying either yes, or no. That is literally it. But since you don't want to answer the question, you're saying I'm not making a point.
I already told you, I'll make my point when you answer the question. You're still avoiding it, just say yes, or no. That is literally it, and I can begin to make my statement. Do you need to read it again? I can repost it for you.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays I don't "have" to do shit. Truth of the matter is your argument shouldn't be dependent on a yes or no answer from anyone. If anything, you should have the intelligence to state your position regardless of the answer given. That's what I've been asking you to do.
So do that, or just admit that you have no point.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 My argument doesn't hinge on the answer of your question, I've already told you this. I've already told you that I need to know you're on board with what I'm about to say before I say it. I have a point, it doesn't rely on your answer, I just need to know you understand where I'm coming from when I say it.
Stop getting so defensive and just say yes or no so I can get on with this.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays Damnit, you're not getting it...
Your argument can bring me to your side, or maybe it won't. There's no way to know unless you actually present your case. You repeatedly asking me to readdress a single question of yours only stands as proof that you're looking for excuses to not say what you have to say. Cut it out, and just say it. You don't need me "on board" beforehand. Make your case, and thing will fall wherever they may...
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 I just don't understand why you won't say yes or no. I mean at this point its more than obvious that your answer is "yes." Otherwise you would have answered by now.
But rather then answer for you without giving you a choice, I'd rather you be a big boy and answer for yourself. Apparently that isn't going to happen because you have to much pride to say it.
I'll ask one more time, yes or no. If you don't say either, I'm going to assume your answer is yes. Go.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays Honestly, I don't even remember the question at this point. All I know about it now is that you've been using it as an excuse to stall. I also know that you've clearly been lying every time you said that your argument didn't hinge on it. Otherwise, you would've made your statement by now instead of continually harping on a matter of questionable importance. If you don't need it to make your case, why have you NOT done so at this point? I've given you every opportunity...
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@kibblesays How hard would it be for you to respond hypothetically anyway? If my answer was "yes" then what? If I said "no," what difference does that make?
Simply put, your excuse for not stating your position up to this point is total bullshit.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 If you answer yes, I can begin my point (don't call it bullshit before I even write it you twit) and if you say no then I'll question your general knowledge (because I can't imagine anyone saying no to this) and begin showing you proof of why your answer should be yes.
However, if you just answer yes, then I can begin right away without wasting time giving examples on things that are so obvious they aren't even worth bringing up.
Thats why I need your answer, so please, yes or no?
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays So...your argument hinges on the response to this question then (at least in your mind). I'm sorry, but this is still bullshit. Even with the set-up for a hypothetical, you're NOT presenting an argument. You have no excuse anymore. Make your claim.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 I believe this is the third time I've said, my point doesn't hinge on your answer. It just lets me know if I have to go into unnecessary detail or not
I know I'm not presenting an argument, because I haven't started yet, because you're not telling me if I need to explain more then I really have to. I'm not making excuses, I actually can't wait to begin this so you'll shut up about this but you just need to say yes or no. Thats it, just one word. Please for the love of god just say it.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays Do you not know what words mean? If your argument doesn't hinge on the answer to this question, then you can just present the fucking thing. You ran out of excuses the instant you said that!
Present your argument or fuck off.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 Holy fucking balls man. Ok, fine. Since you won't say yes or no, its clear your answer is yes.
Now because I'm answering for you, I'm going to explain myself, and then you're going to argue when I'm done, then I'm going to have to explain why its right, which is what I would do now, but you won't answer the question. So in the end, you're just wasting time for both of us.
So, do you accept this? If you do, I'll just start. If you don't then answer for yourself.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays ...and you still haven't made a fucking argument. You've stalled for over a fucking week now!! I've invited you to present your case at least 5x now, and all you've done is come up with excuse after excuse as to why you can't do it.
You've lied repeatedly. You have no argument. You never did. Good day.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 You really just don't get it do you. I can't believe you, I honestly can't. First off, what did I lie about? Second, I have an argument, you just won't let me start cause you won't fucking say yes or no cause you keep stalling by saying I'm stalling Now I answered for you and just asked for your consensus for it before I begin cause I try to be a decent person, and you STILL found it in you to not answer my question by stalling.
I bet next you're going to say I'm stalling, just answer.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays Each time you've said your case doesn't hinge on the answer to this question is a lie. Otherwise, you wouldn't beg for an answer because you wouldn't need it. The fact that you're still asking is further proof that said claim is bullshit. Now, I've already said that I don't know what question you're referring to anymore since it seems as though you're referring to a different one than what I addressed. Either way, I don't see an argument here. And the word is "consent" not consensus.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 Here, the question is: "depending on what country the movie would have been made in, the majority ethnicity would have had the lead role. Is that wrong?" That took me two seconds to find again.
And its not a lie, it just lets me know if I have to waste time explaining myself or not. But you won't let me know if I have to or not for some reason.
You don't see an argument here cause there isn't one cause you won't answer. I don't want a paragraph, I was a yes, or no. Thats it.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays Your argument "doesn't hinge on the answer to the question" but you won't present it without one. No matter what your reasoning may be, this is pretty much the definition of dishonesty. I don't owe you a fucking shortcut in a debate. Are you retarded? So what if you have to explain yourself. IT'S YOUR ARGUMENT!!! It's not my job to make things easier for you, and you're not presenting an argument because you're a lazy coward. That's the truth of the matter, isn't it?
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@kibblesays As for your question: Now I know for a fact that I've addressed it several times.That you want to boil the issue down to "yes or no" informs me of how shortsighted and uninformed you are on how film industries work. That, and the pitiful nature of your argument as a yes or no answer only shows how stupid you are in either response. Allow me to elaborate: if you say "yes" then you're deliberately ignoring facts about both the source material and the resources of a film industry.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@kibblesays This is an adaptation of Avatar: The Last Airbender, an American property based entirely on elements from several Asian cultures. Meaning that it didn't need to be adjusted to suit an American audience. Casting an ethnic majority in a film is a tool used to cater to the viewer, but it already had been through English. Plus, "yes" ignores other avenues that a country's film industry would take instead of a straight-forward, live-action production. Take "Supaidaa-Man" for example.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
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Seiryu64 1 year ago
@kibblesays The Japanese Spider-Man is NOT Peter Parker which makes the show a separate interpretation for a separate and specific audience. Then take Full Metal Alchemist, a series largely about non-Asian characters produced as animation instead of live-action. But the dumbest aspect to a "yes" response is the overall cultural insensitivity. Casting the ethnic majority for Avatar both hijacks and demeans cultures by placing importance of one over another. So a "yes" makes you a bigoted dumbass.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 By the way, I still have yet to make my point. And you still have yet to just say yes or no. Like, I get it, you addressed the question and said what both answers mean. I got it ok?
But you never actually picked one. Now, just for the sake of curiosity, not even for the argument anymore, would you say yes or no.
Whatever you say, even if you just bitch to me about this, I'll state my point. Proooooomise <3
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays You're not fooling anybody. And your question comes from a place of intentional stupidity that only makes you look bad as it deliberately misconstrues matters for the sake of defending actions that ARE discriminatory, exclusionary, and unjustly limiting. Asian actors got the shaft in the casting of The Last Airbender, and they often do in Hollywood. TOO often, and you're not seeing it here because you don't want to. Stop pretending that you can't. Be better than this...
Seiryu64 1 year ago
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@Seiryu64 So you're saying, its ok for any other country to take what America has made, and change everything about it to fit their cultural preference is just fine.
But when America takes their own cartoon, and casts three white actors for the lead roles for characters that don't even have ethnicities, well thats just full blown racist? Thats absolutely absurd, its just not racist cause they aren't white. Cause all white people are racist bastards, right?
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays The lengths you're going to in order to get this so wrong are amazing. For starters, Marvel worked with Toei to develop the Japanese Spider-Man show. So they didn't "take" anything. Plus, your desperation in distorting matters bleeds through here since you know that Toei Spider-Man is a completely separate take meant to introduce the property to a completely new audience. The Last Airbender IS NOT comparable on ANY level...
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 I know they aren't comparable. Because in the show they aren't Asian, so they can be any ethnicity in the movie and the story would still remain the same. And there are still more Asians in the film then white people, despite the larger demand for white heros. You know, this being a white majority country, thats just common sense.
Unless you think thats wrong too.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays Wrong again. They're not comparable because The Last Airbender isn't a presentation to an all-new audience with a different cultural understanding and language. It's a distorted reproduction of the story that lifts Asian culture from Asian people. Toei Spider-Man did nothing of the sort as it presented a show all its own (a precursor to Super Sentai). And stop bullshitting, dude. If these actors weren't white, you wouldn't be spouting this "any ethnicity" crap. You're still wrong...
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@kibblesays You can't claim that the world of Avatar: The Last Airbender isn't based in Asian mythology. So if the characters "can be any ethnicity" then why aren't they black? Latino? Entirely Indian or Middle Eastern? How about it? Makes as much sense as putting white actors in heroic roles in an Asian environment...
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 Of course its based on Asian mythology, there's no denying that. However, the characters in the show don't have an actual ethnicity, only their culture is based of Asian society.
And there are some black people, Asians, and Indians. And they aren't just background characters, they're also the main heros.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays But again, no NATIONALITY doesn't equate to the characters being white. We know they're not as EVERY aspect of the world they live in tells us as much. The world is Asian therefore the characters are too. Look to Lord of the Rings for an example.
And your "main heroes" claim...bullshit. Pure bullshit. What black, Asian, Latino, or Indian characters are you referring to? Are they making up characters so Aang isn't the lead character anymore?
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 Pure bullshit? Was that a serious statement? Ok here: Zuko, Iroh, May, Ty Lee- 4 Indian heroes. Toph, Suki- 2 Asian heroes. 4+2= 6 Aang, Sokka, Katara- 3 white heroes. 6>3. I really don't know how to simplify it better then that.
Aang is THE lead, but he's not the only lead. We've already had this discussion, please don't try to tell me again that Aang is the only lead role in the story. Thats so wrong its embarrassing.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays You gotta stop with this "not the only lead" thing. It's not true now, and never will be as the title deconstructs your claim before you make it. "The Last Airbender" refers to ONE character. Therefore, Aang is THE lead and that's all there is. At the end of the day, only he will save the world. He will defeat Ozai, bringing the war to an end. The others will help, but they don't save the day and it's not their story as much as it is Aang's. Stop this. Your claim fails HARD.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 You know its so funny when you think about it. You keep talking about how Hollywood is so dick for making certain ethnicities only star in stereotypical movies, and you're fighting to have Asian star in this movie. And yet, this movie is all about Asian influences and martial arts, which is their stereotypes in movies. Thoughts on that?
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays It actually makes things worse. Everything about this SCREAMS Asia, and they didn't cast a single person from that culture in a role that matters. That makes TLA worse than The Forbidden Kingdom (I hate that movie for a NUMBER of reasons) in pushing Asian people to the wayside in order to give central focus to a white protagonist. At least that movie didn't give white actors Asian roles to play...
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 Toph, second movie. Shut up already.
Its rooted from Asian culture, it isn't actually Asian culture, THAT is a fact. And seeing how the Fire Nation landscape is based off Iceland, that punches holes in the "all Asian" theory. And guess what, the movie is still heavily based on Asian culture. Only the cast isn't Asian, and the characters in the show aren't Asian either, so there is no difference.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays This is dishonest. So you're really trying to say that the clothing, the architecture, the food, the eating utensils, the Japanese top-knots hairstyle adorn by people in the Fire Nation, the face-paint and armor of the Kyoshi warriors, the twin Dao and demon mask from Japanese Noh theatre that Zuko wears as "The Blue Spirit," Ba Gua, Hung Gar, Tai Chi, Chu Gar Southern Praying Mantis, Norther Shaolin Long Fist, Chinese calligraphy, Hinduism, Buddhism and MORE are NOT Asian culture?
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 I really can't believe how stupid you are. I've said their culture is Asian, its so obvious it is. There's no denying it, especially since the creators confirmed it. But, what isn't Asian, are the people themselves. Nobody in the show has an actual race, thats a fact. So in the movie, they're still keeping all the Asian influences, just like in the show. In fact they're adding more.
But as for the characters themselves, nothing has changed.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays Back to ad hominems, just like a douche...
And just like a moron to claim that nothing is different about the characters. The Fire Nation alone destroys this claim. Then there's the irrefutable evidence in the art book that Mike and Bryan envisioned the characters as Asian. I'd provide a link, but it'd be considered spam here (thanks, youtube users of the past). The inspiration for Aang was cited as being one of the child monks from Shaolin: Wheel of Life. But wait, there's more...
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 You're right and wrong. You're right cause yeah, they did get rid of it. Yet you're wrong because they turned it into gibberish for a reason. Because its made up now, it gives an even greater feel of a made up world, yet still very heavily based on Asian culture. Which is the exact feeling it brings, which is what it is. So I guess its not too bad is it.
kibblesays 1 year ago
@kibblesays You're wrong...again. They did it to further disassociate distinct Asian culture from the film so as to justify the lack of prominent Pan-Asian faces (as opposed to their "diverse" cast) in this reasonably Asian world. What really makes it even worse is that it only helps to defeat the purpose behind the creation of the show which was to craft a fantasy world devoid of the usual Eurocentric myths and folklore that is found in a lot of American works of fantasy.
Seiryu64 1 year ago
@Seiryu64 One: You ARE a racebender
Two: If you think the movie is racist, you're a racebender. Thats all there is to it.
Three: But they're BASED off Native Americans. And according to you racebenders, if something is based off something else, it is that. Period. So is that true too?
Four: Yeah? Cause I look at Noah Ringer all dressed up and I said "That's Aang!!!" Along with everyone else who's seen him.
kibblesays 1 year ago