I've just got the jhs Ernie ball vp jr mod and it works really well. I still hear a bit of loss in the freshness in the tone even still. So much better than a stock version. I tested it with and without and still heard a difference.
Erine Ball Jr sucks major tone out.However just like he stated he was turned to JHS website and checked the forum on gear talk to prove his point, why didn't he mention that JHS makes a mod that solves this issue.
One step ahead of you, buddy. I had some correspondence with JHS throughout the making of this video (June 2010), hence the logo and electrical diagram graphic which are used by permission. The mod wasn't available then.
@penguinrock - thanks for the video. I was running this same setup, and while I haven't tested the difference yet, I think changing my config will help my tone. Something I just thought of - I use a Boss TU-12 tuner which has an input and output (like the TU-3, but no switch). Would I be better off plugging my guitar straight into the TU-12, and then chaining the output of that into the VP Jr? Or will the TU-12 likely suck more tone than using the tuner output of the VP Jr? Cheers!
Whoever is saying that the Ernie Ball VP does not suck tone is incorrect. If you have ears, and do an A/B comparison, it's impossible to deny. It does suck tone, and using the tuner out generally sucks even more tone, especially when you use a long cable to run it to your tuner (at least in my experience). JHS Pedals has an Ernie Ball VP mod that installs their Little Black Buffer circuitry inside that requires standard 9V power. I just had that mod done and it DEFINITELY improved my tone, and
i am about to but a morley volume pedal, they say that they are optical (that means that a light controls your volume , no knobs in there) say they dont suck your tone..... does anyone have use one of these volumes pedal ?¿?¿?¿
I dunno the TC pedal, but assuming it has a "Bypass" out like the Boss ones, you can leave it on and just use the VP to silence the signal when tuning. I imagine the tuner bypass out sucks *less* tone then splitting your signal at the VP JR.
This guy is an idiot, probably has the active perdal using it with passive pickups. I've used a VP for 8 years it's the industry standard pedal. This guy is a dork.
I took the Ernie Ball VP Jr. off of the board for over a year while I was playing in a metal band, but lately I've been interested in integrating a volume back into the board for swells with delay. Maybe this time I'll go for an active [buffered] volume.
the seperate tuner loop is kinda pointless i think, as long as you get a true-bypass. the polytune, which he was playing, is great. i bought mine new, for cheaper than the boss tu-3 (not sure what was going on there, but definitely not complaining!) if you dont use your vol. pedal for swells or something, i would also recommend ditching it, since the tuner silences your signal anyway, but i do like (and use, and rather a lot) my vp jr, and would recommend it to others
I had this problem myself. I had a loss of high end and a NASTY electronic distortion going on especially when I hit a natural harmonic using the tuner out.. The solution: I soldered a 1 megohm resistor in one end of the cable going out to the tuner. This cuts a LOT of the signal to the tuner (mainly the high frequencies) but my pitchblack (TU2 or polytune probably would have no trouble either) still has plenty of signal, even with my volume knob rolled down to 1. My tone is back, noise free.
I use that Jackson Soloist guitar in D flat (C sharp) standard tuning for the hardcore/metal band I'm in, Overcome. Shameless plug: We have a new album, "The Great Campaign of Sabotage", coming out on February 1st, 2011 on Facedown Records!
The JHS pedals diagram shows that the tuner out it is linked with the overall pedal output. However, I would like to know if impedance is still cut even though the tuner out is not used? What about active volume pedals like Hilton or Goodrich?
lol. in my opinion, volume pedals should be used in the fx loop. since you loose gain if you plug it straight before the preamp! when plugging it in the fx loop you control the overall volume, thats what this pedal is supposed to.
I use my VPjr a fair bit though so I'll won't be taking it off. I also use my VPjr in my FX Loop for volume Swells, I think that it works differently as it would be infront.
i have a boss fv500l and the same thing happened to me. lose the volume pedal and gain some tone. also the more true bypass pedals you have the less interference you'll get. people tell me to just lose all my pedals but i dont want to. i use each pedal for a specific purpose and some pedals cant do things others can. thats why i have like, 4 delays. also make sure you're properly powering each pedal. such as a voodoo labs pedal power. make sure your cables are in good condition.
Q: My sound is affected when I plug my tuner into the TUNER jack of my pedal. Is my pedal defective?
A: No. Certain tuners can potentially affect the circuit. The Tuner itself is not "in" the signal path, but it is still connected to the circuit. A tuner with a low input impedance can potentially load down the signal, affecting the volume or tone of your instrument. We recommend experimenting with a different tuner.
Found this in the FAQ's on the ernie ball site, Looks like my Boss TU15 isn't as bad as some tuners... will have to post again as it has too many characters.
just to update the test with my EB jr for anyone who's interested. I didn't get popping and noise when unplugging my tuner like penguinrock. And i'd say leaving my tuner (Boss TU15) in the tuner out only degrades the signal by about 10%.. but when you take the volume pedal out and go straight to amp, wow... the difference is massive. Total lack of top (air) and therefore lack of attack with the pedal in, so then if you stick a tuner in you can put another 10% loss of signal on top.
I'm glad other people are catching on to this. I thought I was going to have to answer the bulk of all the "Dur, so I should unplug my tuner out?" questions solo.
FYI, the tuner pedal I'm using in the video is the TC Electronic Polytune. I meant to bring my Boss TU-2 along with me for filming this, but I forgot to put it in with my other stuff!
@penguinrock np!This has been a real bug bear for me recently and am now re-evaluating my whole board. I noticed you had used a different tuner. And i'm thinking that people with these style volume pedals should try using a buffered tuner in the tuner out. The TC electronics is true bypass as you know which i think could make it worse. Its just a theory, i could be wrong. My TU-15 isn't buffered but does pass straight through to the output (NOT true bypass). Is buffered better? (in the TunerOut)
What volume pedal would you suggest either it be this or others or even no name companies. Is their a better one that has lots of features and good quality which is the best?
The one I would suggest would be the Visual Sound Visual Volume, which is buffered and offers a bunch of options for routing your guitar signal. It does have a tuner out, but I called the company and they assured me that it is passive and tied to the input, meaning that particular part of the circuit is the same as the VP Jr. You can actually some parameters to use the Visual Volume as a boost. I haven't seen any other volume pedals with as many features.
How big is the difference between the tone without the VP pedal and with it (disregarding a tuner with it)?
The way you make it seem in this video is that the only problem is when there's a tuner attached to the tuner out.
If that was the only problem, then why remove the Ernie Ball from your rig and not just move the tuner from the tuner out and into your regular signal chain?
I took the tuner off of my pedalboard for my own reasons. Playing in a hardcore/metal band, I just didn't need a volume pedal anymore. I replaced my Boss TU-2 with a true-bypass TC Electronic Polytune. I got used to the way my amp sounded when we practiced at super high volumes, and when I made the switch, there really was a huge difference in tone. I know I mentioned removing the VP Jr, but the main point is getting the tuner out of the parallel jack. Find what works for you.
@MoFlo4Sho This was going to be my question exactly! I recently did an AB test to amp with and without the volume pedal (and in this test i completey left the tuner out of the equation). And i found there was significant top end loss and loss of attack to. I'm going to do further tests described in this video but it looks hopeless anyway. Thanks to penguinrock for the vid too.
Thanks for the informative vid. I'm looking at buying a VP JR and am being turned off by all the people that say it sucks tone. I honestly wouldn't mind just running my tuning pedal elsewhere in my chain to avoid the loss of tone it causes. I was wondering if there was a noticeable difference in tone just using the VP JR on its own (no tuner used) versus no VP JR at all. Thanks again!
You win some, you lose some. Use your discretion to balance what works for you practically, with what sounds good. The VP Jr is really just a single potentiometer. I took the VP off of my board and replaced my Boss TU-2 with a true-bypass TC Electronic Polytune, all at the same time. The difference in tone seemed night-and-day for me.
@penguinrock Yea I hear yah. I'm running a Boss TU-2 and am noticing it really does alter my tone. I guess I'll find a happy medium and replace my TU-2 with a pitchblack or polytune before I grab a VP jr. Some win, some lose. Thanks for the response.
I'll be doing a combination of online and regular community college classes for an associate's degree, then I'll probably transfer to Arizona State University since it's right here in Tempe where I live.
I know in direct boxes and on splitters in the big sound systems that make it possible to send all of the signals to the FOH and the monitor consoles, there is a transformer at the point that the split in signal happens. This keeps the impedance the same for both sides of the split. The club I worked at for a long time had a splitter in the snake that split everything to FOH console, monitor console, and to a Pro Tools setup. I wonder if you could mod the pedal to include such a transformer?
Interesting. So, I have the Ernie Ball Volume/Pan and the way that I use it is only in pan mode. Output A goes into channel 1 of my amp, a 1978 Fender PA100, output B goes into the rest of my effects, and then into channel 2 of my amp. Not something you can do with every amp, but it gives me a wet/dry foot control of my effects. I wonder if this works the same way?
I'm not sure, dude. To be honest, I didn't know Ernie Ball made a pedal that did that, but the idea sounds very interesting. You' d have to take a look "under the hood" and find out what's going on in the schematics. My guess is the outputs are probably still in parallel.
I've just got the jhs Ernie ball vp jr mod and it works really well. I still hear a bit of loss in the freshness in the tone even still. So much better than a stock version. I tested it with and without and still heard a difference.
phatgroover79 1 week ago
There is a website that will mod your ernie ball to correct this issue, make it true bypass and buffs it I believe.
XxBirthOfaHeroxX 1 month ago
@XxBirthOfaHeroxX
JHS pedals makes a mod for the Ernie Ball VP Jr. now. This video was made BEFORE that mod was available. I'm interested in checking it out!
penguinrock 1 month ago
I did notice a minor tone suckage but notice i got my sound back by adjusting the eqs on both my amp n guitar
JRamirezBand 2 months ago
I dont connect a tuner i use a fender tuner w a builtin super cardiod mic
JRamirezBand 2 months ago
Erine Ball Jr sucks major tone out.However just like he stated he was turned to JHS website and checked the forum on gear talk to prove his point, why didn't he mention that JHS makes a mod that solves this issue.
woody65651 2 months ago
@woody65651
One step ahead of you, buddy. I had some correspondence with JHS throughout the making of this video (June 2010), hence the logo and electrical diagram graphic which are used by permission. The mod wasn't available then.
penguinrock 2 months ago
Soli Deo Gloria!!!
levinjapan 3 months ago
Try using the polytune instead...you wont have this problem!
guibred 3 months ago
@penguinrock - thanks for the video. I was running this same setup, and while I haven't tested the difference yet, I think changing my config will help my tone. Something I just thought of - I use a Boss TU-12 tuner which has an input and output (like the TU-3, but no switch). Would I be better off plugging my guitar straight into the TU-12, and then chaining the output of that into the VP Jr? Or will the TU-12 likely suck more tone than using the tuner output of the VP Jr? Cheers!
mrtokes 3 months ago in playlist More videos from penguinrock
Whoever is saying that the Ernie Ball VP does not suck tone is incorrect. If you have ears, and do an A/B comparison, it's impossible to deny. It does suck tone, and using the tuner out generally sucks even more tone, especially when you use a long cable to run it to your tuner (at least in my experience). JHS Pedals has an Ernie Ball VP mod that installs their Little Black Buffer circuitry inside that requires standard 9V power. I just had that mod done and it DEFINITELY improved my tone, and
hubar1565 3 months ago
i am about to but a morley volume pedal, they say that they are optical (that means that a light controls your volume , no knobs in there) say they dont suck your tone..... does anyone have use one of these volumes pedal ?¿?¿?¿
anaranjadoelectrico 4 months ago
I dunno the TC pedal, but assuming it has a "Bypass" out like the Boss ones, you can leave it on and just use the VP to silence the signal when tuning. I imagine the tuner bypass out sucks *less* tone then splitting your signal at the VP JR.
ginboxer 4 months ago
I think you have a bad volume pedal. or the VP Jr sucks, cause I've used a VP for ever and I lose nothing...
BrianMorrison71 4 months ago
This guy is an idiot, probably has the active perdal using it with passive pickups. I've used a VP for 8 years it's the industry standard pedal. This guy is a dork.
BrianMorrison71 4 months ago
Try a Dunlop Volume pedal? Around $100 and I'm sure it doesn't lose any of your tone...but I could be wrong...
GuitarGod94XxXx 6 months ago
so when u removed the tuner it sounds better?
EarlMendoza03 6 months ago
get it modded by this1smyne. makes it active, no tone suckage, and only 35 bucks.
tdbowenmusic 6 months ago
I took the Ernie Ball VP Jr. off of the board for over a year while I was playing in a metal band, but lately I've been interested in integrating a volume back into the board for swells with delay. Maybe this time I'll go for an active [buffered] volume.
penguinrock 6 months ago
the seperate tuner loop is kinda pointless i think, as long as you get a true-bypass. the polytune, which he was playing, is great. i bought mine new, for cheaper than the boss tu-3 (not sure what was going on there, but definitely not complaining!) if you dont use your vol. pedal for swells or something, i would also recommend ditching it, since the tuner silences your signal anyway, but i do like (and use, and rather a lot) my vp jr, and would recommend it to others
wayfechylde3 6 months ago
i just bought mine and with the tuner output you need to turn down the volume on the pedal to have no tuner click in the amp.
LBL1298 7 months ago
i have no idea why some metal noob would have a volume pedal anyway.
7890cv 8 months ago
Hi there!
Would just like to know, does this apply to the Dunlop DVP1 as well?
SmokyUnltd 1 year ago
does this apply if you don't use the tuner out jack on the pedal?
intdoublecharbool 1 year ago
@intdoublecharbool
It shouldn't. If nothing's plugged into the tuner out jack, then nothing's creating an extra load for your signal.
penguinrock 1 year ago
@penguinrock wow, that was quick! both the video and comment response have been very helpful, thank you.
intdoublecharbool 1 year ago
I had this problem myself. I had a loss of high end and a NASTY electronic distortion going on especially when I hit a natural harmonic using the tuner out.. The solution: I soldered a 1 megohm resistor in one end of the cable going out to the tuner. This cuts a LOT of the signal to the tuner (mainly the high frequencies) but my pitchblack (TU2 or polytune probably would have no trouble either) still has plenty of signal, even with my volume knob rolled down to 1. My tone is back, noise free.
rokr432 1 year ago
Are you like... tuned in Db?! Heavy stuff..
\w/
fpranchas 1 year ago
@fpranchas
I use that Jackson Soloist guitar in D flat (C sharp) standard tuning for the hardcore/metal band I'm in, Overcome. Shameless plug: We have a new album, "The Great Campaign of Sabotage", coming out on February 1st, 2011 on Facedown Records!
penguinrock 1 year ago
The JHS pedals diagram shows that the tuner out it is linked with the overall pedal output. However, I would like to know if impedance is still cut even though the tuner out is not used? What about active volume pedals like Hilton or Goodrich?
sonofgod316 1 year ago
lol. in my opinion, volume pedals should be used in the fx loop. since you loose gain if you plug it straight before the preamp! when plugging it in the fx loop you control the overall volume, thats what this pedal is supposed to.
WirSindRocker 1 year ago
@WirSindRocker
Back when I was actively using a volume pedal, I preferred having it before the preamp so I could control the amount of gain. To each his own.
penguinrock 1 year ago
@WirSindRocker Unless you're on a parallel loop...
jimbobmcjerk 3 months ago
@jimbobmcjerk yes.. but most amps are switchable, as far as i know
WirSindRocker 1 month ago
Works Ernie Ball VP Jr. with a gibson les paul studio????
BuyOurRock 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Interesting thought.
I use my VPjr a fair bit though so I'll won't be taking it off. I also use my VPjr in my FX Loop for volume Swells, I think that it works differently as it would be infront.
hillysats 1 year ago
Comment removed
hillysats 1 year ago
i have a boss fv500l and the same thing happened to me. lose the volume pedal and gain some tone. also the more true bypass pedals you have the less interference you'll get. people tell me to just lose all my pedals but i dont want to. i use each pedal for a specific purpose and some pedals cant do things others can. thats why i have like, 4 delays. also make sure you're properly powering each pedal. such as a voodoo labs pedal power. make sure your cables are in good condition.
starsturncold 1 year ago
the only way to bypass this problem(which i have had my self) is to buy a 500 dollar volume pedal...
BouvrieMax 1 year ago
Sorry to keep posting! but also found details about my TU-15 tuner that probably help the tone to some degree.
"More Details:
A backlit needle and LCD make tuning easy, while improved high-impedance inputs let you connect between an amp and guitar without signal loss.
High impedance input keeps tuner transparent when connected between guitar and amp"
So i'd say a good high impedance input on your tuner will help all this. If the EB didn't suck tone on its own, i'd leave my tuner in.
thinwire 1 year ago
Q: My sound is affected when I plug my tuner into the TUNER jack of my pedal. Is my pedal defective?
A: No. Certain tuners can potentially affect the circuit. The Tuner itself is not "in" the signal path, but it is still connected to the circuit. A tuner with a low input impedance can potentially load down the signal, affecting the volume or tone of your instrument. We recommend experimenting with a different tuner.
thinwire 1 year ago
Found this in the FAQ's on the ernie ball site, Looks like my Boss TU15 isn't as bad as some tuners... will have to post again as it has too many characters.
thinwire 1 year ago
just to update the test with my EB jr for anyone who's interested. I didn't get popping and noise when unplugging my tuner like penguinrock. And i'd say leaving my tuner (Boss TU15) in the tuner out only degrades the signal by about 10%.. but when you take the volume pedal out and go straight to amp, wow... the difference is massive. Total lack of top (air) and therefore lack of attack with the pedal in, so then if you stick a tuner in you can put another 10% loss of signal on top.
thinwire 1 year ago
@thinwire
I'm glad other people are catching on to this. I thought I was going to have to answer the bulk of all the "Dur, so I should unplug my tuner out?" questions solo.
FYI, the tuner pedal I'm using in the video is the TC Electronic Polytune. I meant to bring my Boss TU-2 along with me for filming this, but I forgot to put it in with my other stuff!
penguinrock 1 year ago
@penguinrock np!This has been a real bug bear for me recently and am now re-evaluating my whole board. I noticed you had used a different tuner. And i'm thinking that people with these style volume pedals should try using a buffered tuner in the tuner out. The TC electronics is true bypass as you know which i think could make it worse. Its just a theory, i could be wrong. My TU-15 isn't buffered but does pass straight through to the output (NOT true bypass). Is buffered better? (in the TunerOut)
thinwire 1 year ago
What volume pedal would you suggest either it be this or others or even no name companies. Is their a better one that has lots of features and good quality which is the best?
posiedonpowertrio 1 year ago
@posiedonpowertrio
The one I would suggest would be the Visual Sound Visual Volume, which is buffered and offers a bunch of options for routing your guitar signal. It does have a tuner out, but I called the company and they assured me that it is passive and tied to the input, meaning that particular part of the circuit is the same as the VP Jr. You can actually some parameters to use the Visual Volume as a boost. I haven't seen any other volume pedals with as many features.
penguinrock 1 year ago
How big is the difference between the tone without the VP pedal and with it (disregarding a tuner with it)?
The way you make it seem in this video is that the only problem is when there's a tuner attached to the tuner out.
If that was the only problem, then why remove the Ernie Ball from your rig and not just move the tuner from the tuner out and into your regular signal chain?
MoFlo4Sho 1 year ago
@MoFlo4Sho
I took the tuner off of my pedalboard for my own reasons. Playing in a hardcore/metal band, I just didn't need a volume pedal anymore. I replaced my Boss TU-2 with a true-bypass TC Electronic Polytune. I got used to the way my amp sounded when we practiced at super high volumes, and when I made the switch, there really was a huge difference in tone. I know I mentioned removing the VP Jr, but the main point is getting the tuner out of the parallel jack. Find what works for you.
penguinrock 1 year ago
@MoFlo4Sho This was going to be my question exactly! I recently did an AB test to amp with and without the volume pedal (and in this test i completey left the tuner out of the equation). And i found there was significant top end loss and loss of attack to. I'm going to do further tests described in this video but it looks hopeless anyway. Thanks to penguinrock for the vid too.
thinwire 1 year ago
must be a bad cable
mrboverbro 1 year ago
Thanks for the informative vid. I'm looking at buying a VP JR and am being turned off by all the people that say it sucks tone. I honestly wouldn't mind just running my tuning pedal elsewhere in my chain to avoid the loss of tone it causes. I was wondering if there was a noticeable difference in tone just using the VP JR on its own (no tuner used) versus no VP JR at all. Thanks again!
paresmi 1 year ago
@paresmi
You win some, you lose some. Use your discretion to balance what works for you practically, with what sounds good. The VP Jr is really just a single potentiometer. I took the VP off of my board and replaced my Boss TU-2 with a true-bypass TC Electronic Polytune, all at the same time. The difference in tone seemed night-and-day for me.
penguinrock 1 year ago
@penguinrock Yea I hear yah. I'm running a Boss TU-2 and am noticing it really does alter my tone. I guess I'll find a happy medium and replace my TU-2 with a pitchblack or polytune before I grab a VP jr. Some win, some lose. Thanks for the response.
paresmi 1 year ago
VP JR's are really only about 69 bucks now days.
cosmogang 1 year ago
Where are you going to school? I've been thinking about doing the same for awhile now, not sure if it'd be worth it is all.
dfpratt04 1 year ago
@dfpratt04
I'll be doing a combination of online and regular community college classes for an associate's degree, then I'll probably transfer to Arizona State University since it's right here in Tempe where I live.
penguinrock 1 year ago
I know in direct boxes and on splitters in the big sound systems that make it possible to send all of the signals to the FOH and the monitor consoles, there is a transformer at the point that the split in signal happens. This keeps the impedance the same for both sides of the split. The club I worked at for a long time had a splitter in the snake that split everything to FOH console, monitor console, and to a Pro Tools setup. I wonder if you could mod the pedal to include such a transformer?
dfpratt04 1 year ago
@dfpratt04
I'm actually going back to school to finish an electrical engineering degree, so ask me in a few years and I just might be able to do that!
penguinrock 1 year ago
Interesting. So, I have the Ernie Ball Volume/Pan and the way that I use it is only in pan mode. Output A goes into channel 1 of my amp, a 1978 Fender PA100, output B goes into the rest of my effects, and then into channel 2 of my amp. Not something you can do with every amp, but it gives me a wet/dry foot control of my effects. I wonder if this works the same way?
dfpratt04 1 year ago
@dfpratt04
I'm not sure, dude. To be honest, I didn't know Ernie Ball made a pedal that did that, but the idea sounds very interesting. You' d have to take a look "under the hood" and find out what's going on in the schematics. My guess is the outputs are probably still in parallel.
penguinrock 1 year ago