what you said in your video made me cry, i went through the same thing you did, i was one of those evengelical christians and i use to go on youtube and tell people to come to God, then an atheist on here challenged me to read the bible so i spent weeks reading it and it just broke my heart, then i found out that there is over 3,000 denominations, i havent really told anyone i dont believe anymore, i feel really trapped and depressed.
Im so sorry to hear you are in that situation. I cant say that my situation was as difficult as yours, coming from a secular jewish home.
The only advice I can give you, is that unless you accept who you are, and how you have come to see the world, you will continue to feel the way you do. I dont know how your family will react, but if you keep lying to them, its like lying to yourself. Be strong my friend. And If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know.
Excellent response. Unfortunatly you arent able to convince a believe of your sincerity if it contradicts their belief... fortunatly it doesnt matter. Again, great vid.
I gotta tell you man, the candor you display in this video almost brought me to tears. I had a struggle growing up that almost mirrored yours, and your ability to be so up front on such a critical a medium as youtube was heartening. Thanks.
Wow...thanks for those kind words man. I've had a great response to this vid in general, from other people that went through similar experiences. I'm glad I was able to connect, and you could relate. I wish religious people could get this point better though. To them its all about hating god and sinning. They don't seem to understand.
"Whats the point in being hungry when theres no food." the point is that there is such thing as food and without it you cannot live, how much real can I go to answer this analogy?
The analogy isn't great, but since JF was saying that atheists "hunger" for god, I just responded using his words, and thats just what I went for. If you have a better one, Im open to suggestions.
Really? Thats the way you see it. I FEEL theres no god thats why Im an atheist? So the fact that I reviewed the religions, looked at the evidence, thought about it, searched for answers, studied science and faith......to you is the equivalent of saying..."hmmm I just feel there's no god so I think Ill be an atheist now"
So basically, you take one line from the description box, which is meant to express a broad idea and is just written without much consideration and apply it to the whole. Watch the video, I clearly delineate all my points and express the reasoned process I went through.
But hey, fair point, If it can be interpreted in that manner, I will change the description to avoid further confusion. Thanx for pointing it out. Cheers.
I was kinda in a bad mood giving you a little bit of shit, lol, I hadn't watched the video when i left the comment.
You should never use the term "that's how i feel" it negates any logical complexity you can reason through to get to your conclusion and just sounds like "feelings" which frankly, don't mean much besides to the feeler :D.
oh btw, I forgot to mention you saying "I can't be held accountable when the evidence is overwhelmingly against something"
the problem with that is that God is a tricky thing to attribute to things, some people just assume God created everything and left it along, we don't really know what evidence of God is since we don't even know where to start looking (wtf is evidence of God?).
I think it is highly unlikely that these concepts we have created of God exist.
Hey Anastasius. I half agree. For the first premise "some people just assume God created everything and left it along,"..well, that's deism. I have no trouble with that except to me, its pointless.For your second statement.:"we don't really know what evidence of God is since we don't even know where to start looking (wtf is evidence of God?)" If we are talking about theistic gods, we could infer existence or non existence by what we percieve. Check out my vid: watch?v=mgoROv5NwcY
I clung to belief and lost it very much against my will, and then spent about five years quite depressed from that. I won't bother posting this remark on that guy's vid because I seriously don't think he would believe me anyway, even though a crisis is typical after losing faith.
Also, did you happen to notice TAA walk right into this classic (atheist stereotype/misconception of) in his "god's comfort" vid? I haven't noticed anyone calling him on that.
oops, I meant to post this comment on the re-up version, so the 'he' I was referring to was the other guy, not jfrk777. I guess it would still apply though.
DJosephAllen - Let me commend you on your honesty, and commitment to truth. For those of us that have been open to religion and have chose to move beyond religion, we admire your integrity. When you start to recognize the possibilities that exist for mankind without religion, you will begin to truly appreciate the limits that religion puts on individuals. You begin see the universe, set free to explore how we got here, and where we might go. Welcome to reality. It is truly exciting.
Edmund Cohen was raised in a liberal Jewish household, got two university degrees and a certificate in Jungian psychology - then became a born again Christian. two years later, he snapped out of itand wondered how an educated man such as himself could have been taken in by such simplistic theology. As a result, he wrote a book called "The Mind of the Bible Believer". I recommend it to everyone.
I had some of the same problems you had. But you have to realize God is greater and doesn't act on YOUR WILL. What you think he should do isn't exactly what he will do. Another misconception is that we expect to feel something or hear a voice when we repent and decide to follow God. God's plan is greater than we could ever comprehend. All I can say is that I hope you just pray in a less selfish manner and find your way. I'll pray for you, God bless.
See thats so convinient...I hear this from almost every christian.
When you don't believe your heart is hardened.
When you do what christians tell you to do: Pray the sinners prayer, be honest and open your heart; and it doesnt work...then you are being selfish and expecting god to do your will. Make up your mind.
never said you were selfish in particular. I say that you shouldn't think you know what to expect from God out of all beings. He works in unfamiliar ways. sometimes He may talk to you in a weird voice, sometimes He sends dreams. you're saying you got none of that?
talks to you in a weird voice?? sends me dreams?? why does God have to work in such mysterious and agonizingly inefficient ways? though i see your point that we cannot comprehend the will of the divine nor can we try to understand its existence, it still just adds to the confusion of man, if God is all knowing why would he want us to live in ignorance? does he have a superiority complex? does he fear what man can do with that knowledge? if he loves us so much why would he want us to be ignorant?
why do you think god didnt want adam and eve to eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil then?? why doesnt he tell us what we want to know? my point is, if he had been here even before time itself...wouldnt he have at least the decency to tell us whats going on?
what im saying is if he is omnipotent then he should at least give us the knowledge that we as humans are continuously yearning for. what does he have to fear? our potential is far from his omnipotence, so why doesnt he max out our potential? i'm not using god as an excuse for man's weakness, i believe we can unlock our potential through some other means(with/without god), im just stating this to prove my point.
i re-read all your posts but i still don't see your point.
we already have a lot of potential. have you seen all the knowledge we've gained, what God made our bodies capable of? what more could you want? see, when you trust in God, you don't have to be greedy, or feel like you lack, because He provides for you. I read a psalm that meant that David wouldn't ask questions TOO great for him, that He's simply trust the Lord.
uhh, then there is no point in continuing this further if you dont understand what im saying, i dont need god to cover up my weaknesses, plus im not greedy :). i dont see god as a provider because we are the ones who provide for our needs. if you want to give that credit to god thats fine but dont expect me to do the same.
Good stuff:It seems that a lot of premises are attached to what is God and what is not.You wanted to feel something, maybe experience based on what you were told by the "so calls".So you honestly search, thats admirable because my friend, religion is a test most times to drive you away by what you validly see.So you passed that test.Science,evolution i have no problems with as a believer, i accept them as a part of the ongoing search for mans benefit.If i read Genesis i know its a metaphor for ?
I too was brought up in a religious background my entire childhood and never really started to question its validity until I was around 19. Like you I really wanted to believe in God when I first began to look for the truth. When that moment came and I realised that God was not really there I was deeply scared and hurt. I always thought I was loved after and protected and then one day I woke up. I never wanted to be an atheist, I just could'nt deny the truth by tying to lie to myself.
"God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us?
- Friedrich Nietzsche,
God was created for profit, there is no actually real God, not even in the Bible.
God is Dead, it's something we don't need anymore, Humanity needs to advance without useless theories.
Very good video. This raises a profound question to the believer, "Why would a loving god not show himself to someone who truly wanted to know him?" They seem to push this one aside, but the only reasonable answers I've ever come up with is that he was never there in the first place. Seems you feel the same way.
It makes no sense that God would reveal hinself to Saul of Tarsus, one who persecuted and who was not even looking for him and yet ignore people who wanted to know him.
Very good video. Rational and sane. If god did exist why wouldn't he/she want his/her creation to be exactly like you describe. You know, realistic. It really highlights how man made god is when people like you talk with such a level of reality. Thank you.
Outstanding sincerity, honesty and courage (this level of honesty requires a lot of courage). Behold the man who ached for God, but demanded truth above all else, even his dreams. I hope you find your bride. The world needs the children of such a father. I salute you (I literally saluted the screen, just to maintain MY honesty). :)
I grew up as a Christian, I was an altar boy, and even thought about being a priest when I was younger. I became an atheist at 51 y/o.
Atheism isn't a choice. You can't pretend to believe in something you know isn't real. I didn't stop believing overnite, I studied the bible and coupled with my experience I found nothing I could believe in.
You made the right choice, you might find interesting the astrological and biblical similarities, and Christianity ripping-off directly from Egyptian culture.
My point is it was NOT a choice, I didn't choose atheism.
The first thing that started my journey away from Christianity was a booklet put out by the Worlwide Church of God called "the truth about Christmas" I am well aware of the pagan influences.
what you said in your video made me cry, i went through the same thing you did, i was one of those evengelical christians and i use to go on youtube and tell people to come to God, then an atheist on here challenged me to read the bible so i spent weeks reading it and it just broke my heart, then i found out that there is over 3,000 denominations, i havent really told anyone i dont believe anymore, i feel really trapped and depressed.
zipitup75 1 year ago
@zipitup75
Im so sorry to hear you are in that situation. I cant say that my situation was as difficult as yours, coming from a secular jewish home.
The only advice I can give you, is that unless you accept who you are, and how you have come to see the world, you will continue to feel the way you do. I dont know how your family will react, but if you keep lying to them, its like lying to yourself. Be strong my friend. And If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know.
Cheers.
djosephallen 1 year ago
Excellent response. Unfortunatly you arent able to convince a believe of your sincerity if it contradicts their belief... fortunatly it doesnt matter. Again, great vid.
Key2daUnderground 2 years ago
Thanks Key2. I'm glad you enjoyed.
djosephallen 2 years ago
watch Zeitgeist
Terra7Q 2 years ago
I gotta tell you man, the candor you display in this video almost brought me to tears. I had a struggle growing up that almost mirrored yours, and your ability to be so up front on such a critical a medium as youtube was heartening. Thanks.
ajsharkmaniac07 2 years ago
Wow...thanks for those kind words man. I've had a great response to this vid in general, from other people that went through similar experiences. I'm glad I was able to connect, and you could relate. I wish religious people could get this point better though. To them its all about hating god and sinning. They don't seem to understand.
Thanks for your comment.
djosephallen 2 years ago
"Whats the point in being hungry when theres no food." the point is that there is such thing as food and without it you cannot live, how much real can I go to answer this analogy?
sanchopanza123 2 years ago
The analogy isn't great, but since JF was saying that atheists "hunger" for god, I just responded using his words, and thats just what I went for. If you have a better one, Im open to suggestions.
djosephallen 2 years ago
i feel like you have a nice face! Your voice isn't half bad either. Where's the origin of your accent?
wikkedchik90 2 years ago
Thanks....I'm from Mexico City, that's probably the accent you detect.
djosephallen 2 years ago
You're an atheist for the same reason as they're theists, b/c you "feel" a certain way. How irrational...
Anastasius37 2 years ago
Really? Thats the way you see it. I FEEL theres no god thats why Im an atheist? So the fact that I reviewed the religions, looked at the evidence, thought about it, searched for answers, studied science and faith......to you is the equivalent of saying..."hmmm I just feel there's no god so I think Ill be an atheist now"
Fail.
djosephallen 2 years ago
"This is the way I feel. I dont hate the idea of god."
then say you did that, not that it is the way you feel, that's a much more logical reason.
Anastasius37 2 years ago
So basically, you take one line from the description box, which is meant to express a broad idea and is just written without much consideration and apply it to the whole. Watch the video, I clearly delineate all my points and express the reasoned process I went through.
But hey, fair point, If it can be interpreted in that manner, I will change the description to avoid further confusion. Thanx for pointing it out. Cheers.
djosephallen 2 years ago
I was kinda in a bad mood giving you a little bit of shit, lol, I hadn't watched the video when i left the comment.
You should never use the term "that's how i feel" it negates any logical complexity you can reason through to get to your conclusion and just sounds like "feelings" which frankly, don't mean much besides to the feeler :D.
Anastasius37 2 years ago
oh btw, I forgot to mention you saying "I can't be held accountable when the evidence is overwhelmingly against something"
the problem with that is that God is a tricky thing to attribute to things, some people just assume God created everything and left it along, we don't really know what evidence of God is since we don't even know where to start looking (wtf is evidence of God?).
I think it is highly unlikely that these concepts we have created of God exist.
Anastasius37 2 years ago
Hey Anastasius. I half agree. For the first premise "some people just assume God created everything and left it along,"..well, that's deism. I have no trouble with that except to me, its pointless.For your second statement.:"we don't really know what evidence of God is since we don't even know where to start looking (wtf is evidence of God?)" If we are talking about theistic gods, we could infer existence or non existence by what we percieve. Check out my vid: watch?v=mgoROv5NwcY
djosephallen 2 years ago
I clung to belief and lost it very much against my will, and then spent about five years quite depressed from that. I won't bother posting this remark on that guy's vid because I seriously don't think he would believe me anyway, even though a crisis is typical after losing faith.
Also, did you happen to notice TAA walk right into this classic (atheist stereotype/misconception of) in his "god's comfort" vid? I haven't noticed anyone calling him on that.
vantraveler 2 years ago
oops, I meant to post this comment on the re-up version, so the 'he' I was referring to was the other guy, not jfrk777. I guess it would still apply though.
vantraveler 2 years ago
Thanks for your comment vantraveler. Havent noticed that, but Ill go check it out.
djosephallen 2 years ago
DJosephAllen - Let me commend you on your honesty, and commitment to truth. For those of us that have been open to religion and have chose to move beyond religion, we admire your integrity. When you start to recognize the possibilities that exist for mankind without religion, you will begin to truly appreciate the limits that religion puts on individuals. You begin see the universe, set free to explore how we got here, and where we might go. Welcome to reality. It is truly exciting.
1CountryIndivisible 2 years ago
Thanx for your comment 1country. Its always good to hear from others that share similar experiences.
djosephallen 2 years ago
right on
repraptor 3 years ago
Thanx repraptor....please subscribe ant tell your friends!!! Peace
djosephallen 3 years ago
Edmund Cohen was raised in a liberal Jewish household, got two university degrees and a certificate in Jungian psychology - then became a born again Christian. two years later, he snapped out of itand wondered how an educated man such as himself could have been taken in by such simplistic theology. As a result, he wrote a book called "The Mind of the Bible Believer". I recommend it to everyone.
pirbird14 3 years ago
I had some of the same problems you had. But you have to realize God is greater and doesn't act on YOUR WILL. What you think he should do isn't exactly what he will do. Another misconception is that we expect to feel something or hear a voice when we repent and decide to follow God. God's plan is greater than we could ever comprehend. All I can say is that I hope you just pray in a less selfish manner and find your way. I'll pray for you, God bless.
-James-
CyberneticOrganism83 3 years ago
Exactly. dude, you were being very impatient with God. you thought about God as if He was your fairy godfather, as if He has to answer to YOU.
GloomySunset 3 years ago
See thats so convinient...I hear this from almost every christian.
When you don't believe your heart is hardened.
When you do what christians tell you to do: Pray the sinners prayer, be honest and open your heart; and it doesnt work...then you are being selfish and expecting god to do your will. Make up your mind.
djosephallen 3 years ago
never said you were selfish in particular. I say that you shouldn't think you know what to expect from God out of all beings. He works in unfamiliar ways. sometimes He may talk to you in a weird voice, sometimes He sends dreams. you're saying you got none of that?
GloomySunset 3 years ago
talks to you in a weird voice?? sends me dreams?? why does God have to work in such mysterious and agonizingly inefficient ways? though i see your point that we cannot comprehend the will of the divine nor can we try to understand its existence, it still just adds to the confusion of man, if God is all knowing why would he want us to live in ignorance? does he have a superiority complex? does he fear what man can do with that knowledge? if he loves us so much why would he want us to be ignorant?
RadioActiveRocker 3 years ago
"does he have a superiority complex? does he fear what man can do with that knowledge? if he loves us so much why would he want us to be ignorant?"
dude, what are you talking about?? one of the last things He wants us to be is foolish.
GloomySunset 3 years ago
why do you think god didnt want adam and eve to eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil then?? why doesnt he tell us what we want to know? my point is, if he had been here even before time itself...wouldnt he have at least the decency to tell us whats going on?
RadioActiveRocker 3 years ago
how is He any less "decent" if He doesn't tell us things that we wouldn't understand?
GloomySunset 3 years ago
what im saying is if he is omnipotent then he should at least give us the knowledge that we as humans are continuously yearning for. what does he have to fear? our potential is far from his omnipotence, so why doesnt he max out our potential? i'm not using god as an excuse for man's weakness, i believe we can unlock our potential through some other means(with/without god), im just stating this to prove my point.
RadioActiveRocker 3 years ago
i re-read all your posts but i still don't see your point.
we already have a lot of potential. have you seen all the knowledge we've gained, what God made our bodies capable of? what more could you want? see, when you trust in God, you don't have to be greedy, or feel like you lack, because He provides for you. I read a psalm that meant that David wouldn't ask questions TOO great for him, that He's simply trust the Lord.
GloomySunset 3 years ago
typo, i meant "that he'll simply trust the Lord"
GloomySunset 3 years ago
uhh, then there is no point in continuing this further if you dont understand what im saying, i dont need god to cover up my weaknesses, plus im not greedy :). i dont see god as a provider because we are the ones who provide for our needs. if you want to give that credit to god thats fine but dont expect me to do the same.
RadioActiveRocker 3 years ago
you weren't making yourself clear! and I was saying that no one has to be greedy when they trust in God. nobody called you greedy. sheesh
GloomySunset 3 years ago
Good stuff:It seems that a lot of premises are attached to what is God and what is not.You wanted to feel something, maybe experience based on what you were told by the "so calls".So you honestly search, thats admirable because my friend, religion is a test most times to drive you away by what you validly see.So you passed that test.Science,evolution i have no problems with as a believer, i accept them as a part of the ongoing search for mans benefit.If i read Genesis i know its a metaphor for ?
hitobedut 3 years ago
Very insightful. Subscribed. :)
ReasonablySpeaking 3 years ago
Thanks RS....thanx for the sub....sub right back!!!
djosephallen 3 years ago
I too was brought up in a religious background my entire childhood and never really started to question its validity until I was around 19. Like you I really wanted to believe in God when I first began to look for the truth. When that moment came and I realised that God was not really there I was deeply scared and hurt. I always thought I was loved after and protected and then one day I woke up. I never wanted to be an atheist, I just could'nt deny the truth by tying to lie to myself.
kristin7858 3 years ago
Thanx for your comment kristin..its nice to know that other people have struggled in the same way.
djosephallen 3 years ago
ur deconversion sounds very similiar to mine.
good vid
jissaikun 3 years ago
"God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us?
- Friedrich Nietzsche,
God was created for profit, there is no actually real God, not even in the Bible.
God is Dead, it's something we don't need anymore, Humanity needs to advance without useless theories.
Iluvatar900 3 years ago
Very good video. This raises a profound question to the believer, "Why would a loving god not show himself to someone who truly wanted to know him?" They seem to push this one aside, but the only reasonable answers I've ever come up with is that he was never there in the first place. Seems you feel the same way.
dinguswad452 3 years ago
"Why would a loving god not show himself to someone who truly wanted to know him?"
Indeed, I might make a video touching more deeply on this.
Thanx for the comment and the sub!!!
djosephallen 3 years ago
Indeed,
It makes no sense that God would reveal hinself to Saul of Tarsus, one who persecuted and who was not even looking for him and yet ignore people who wanted to know him.
justintempler 3 years ago
physical evindence isnt the only thing that will make you believe just so you know.
civbabez22 3 years ago
Can you be more specific?
djosephallen 3 years ago
&& wait do you mean physical evidence that he exists like if someone has seen him or miracles?
civbabez22 3 years ago
No...you said:
"physical evidence isnt the only thing that will make you believe just so you know".
So I ask....be more specific.
I wasnt just sitting there going: If I cant see him then he doesnt exist...I was asking for ANYTHING....
djosephallen 3 years ago
Very good video. Rational and sane. If god did exist why wouldn't he/she want his/her creation to be exactly like you describe. You know, realistic. It really highlights how man made god is when people like you talk with such a level of reality. Thank you.
samten54 3 years ago
Thank you for the kind words samten.
djosephallen 3 years ago
Great video, very well said.
if u havent heard of it, check out scientific pantheism, its like spiritual naturalism, it seems like a very good thing.
cozmikzen 3 years ago
Amazing! This closely mirrors my own experience. Life without god is wonderful!
philstilwell 3 years ago
Welcome to my favourites list!
Outstanding sincerity, honesty and courage (this level of honesty requires a lot of courage). Behold the man who ached for God, but demanded truth above all else, even his dreams. I hope you find your bride. The world needs the children of such a father. I salute you (I literally saluted the screen, just to maintain MY honesty). :)
philhellenes 3 years ago 2
Wow..philhellenes..thanks for that awesome comment and the favourite...no easy feat to get on philhellenes fav list! :)
djosephallen 3 years ago
5/5 great vid
gentlebutch 3 years ago
Fantastic. Very well said.
I grew up as a Christian, I was an altar boy, and even thought about being a priest when I was younger. I became an atheist at 51 y/o.
Atheism isn't a choice. You can't pretend to believe in something you know isn't real. I didn't stop believing overnite, I studied the bible and coupled with my experience I found nothing I could believe in.
justintempler 3 years ago 2
You made the right choice, you might find interesting the astrological and biblical similarities, and Christianity ripping-off directly from Egyptian culture.
Iluvatar900 3 years ago
My point is it was NOT a choice, I didn't choose atheism.
The first thing that started my journey away from Christianity was a booklet put out by the Worlwide Church of God called "the truth about Christmas" I am well aware of the pagan influences.
justintempler 3 years ago
THE PLAIN TRUTH ABOUT CHRISTMAS
by
Herbert W. Armstrong
1892 - 1986
tinyurlDOTcom/65flr4
justintempler 3 years ago
If you didn't choose atheism why are you one?
Faith is a wonderful thing.
Iluvatar900 3 years ago
No belief in a God = atheism
There is a difference between faith and blind faith. I have faith in my family.
justintempler 3 years ago
some people need evidence to support such claims, the evidence is not there. Hence why alot of us cannot believe.
lifeisgummo 3 years ago
Indeed! This is a great video! ★★★★★
Katalyzt
Katalyzt 3 years ago
Thanks Katalyzt!!!!
djosephallen 3 years ago