I don't know what this was about, but props to the white girl for sticking up for her homegirl, even if she got taken down because of it. At least they know she is down if some shit pops off.
Wow...looks like the same people in my video "Lake lanier beatdown / beach fight"! Search for it under my user ID mket2006. Georgia, where everyday is an episode from Jerry Springer. Thanks for uploading this!
@mohamadalikazi I rip on the pakidot shitfaces in my neighbourhood all the time. I would gladly say it to your face any time any where tough guy. this currie fucker trying to act tough on the internet haha. listen man, you're brown, deal with it, EVERYONE hates your people. you smell bad, you're all ugly and your skin is literally the COLOR OF THE SHIT THAT COMES OUT OF EVERYONE'S asses. go suicide bomb some of your own people in india
YOu people justifying for police brutal ity need to imagine yourselves in their shoes. Because soon enough police will be after anyone. No more civilians, just potential criminals. Does anyone know what democracy mean anymore?
Man that's some beautiful fucking capitalism! As soon as one set of diners is dragged away in handcuffs after fighting with the police, another party is seated immediately.
You can't beat restaurant efficiency in the U.S.! It's the one thing we truly do well here.
@DartmouthAlum96 well said, some will not understand what you mean because they cant see beyond the context and attention span of a rat (and even a rat is more perceptive) but you hit the nail on the head, also how about an applause for all the COWARDS that did nothing the moment that idiot with a uniform and "authority" hit that girl? life in the US is about to change and as someone already said, at some point everyone will be viewd as a potential criminal WAKE UP PEOPLE
@DartmouthAlum96 well said, some will not understand what you mean because they cant see beyond the context and attention span of a rat (and even a rat is more perceptive) but you hit the nail on the head, also how about an applause for all the COWARDS that did nothing the moment that idiot with a uniform and "authority" hit that girl? life in the US is about to change and as someone already said, at some point everyone will be viewd as a potential criminal WAKE UP PEOPLE
@indyfan22k The video was used in the cops defense. Because of the video, the cop was very quickly cleared of any wrong doing and the charges against the ape lady were upgraded to a felony. Justice was served!
The lady needs a good lawyer. Justice is NOT served. Her friend was in a insanely wrong choke hold. She was trying to protect her friend. Police can't handle people that way.
@indyfan22k She was not in a choke hold. The ape lady didn't know anybody in that booth. The officer was trying to make a very justified arrest and the lady was resisting. There was nothing brutal about it. The ape had no right to interfere and physically obstruct the officer and aid the escape of the arrestee.
@indyfan22k sorry but "I didn't do anything" doesn't get you out of being arrested. that was resisting arrest. and punching a police officer is a felony. i dunno what kind of justice you have but, if those people were not drunk or disorderly they would have had the brains to not punch a police officer. whether or not you like it that is illegal.
@your a complete fucking idiot. That officer deserves to be prosecuted and sent to fucking prison ESPECIALLY since he is a police officer. Please tell me why the Police is not a career thats been professionalized????? ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT JOBS IN OUR SOCIETY. & we have a bunch of power abusing PUNKS running around with badges. Our cj system is a complete joke and our police officers are uneducated assholes wih badges. FUCK THE POLICE.
@anddenex I watched another video today of a man who charged two cops with a knife. The cops tasered him but somehow the taser had little effect and the guy still would not drop the knife or stop advancing on the cops. The cops finally shot him 7 or 8 times. The family is now crying that it was excessive force and that the cops should have only shot a couple rounds at his legs. Unreal. I would have aimed for his head after the first 2 or 3 rounds failed to stop him.
@pogijensen - "I would have aimed for his head after the first 2 or 3 rounds failed to stop him." As would I have, if a man was coming at me with a knife with killing intent.
I have no pity for individuals who aggressively, with weapons, attack officers. In this situation if the cops first tried with a taser, and this didn't work, and he was still coming with intent to harm or kill with a knife. Each officer has a right to return home to their family and protect themselves.
@anddenex Mentally ill patients feel pain but it doesn't always register in their brain the same or as fast. Maybe due to meds, pain killers or other reasons. Meth and crack addicts however, they feel nothing at all. It's very hard dealing with these people because nothing works short of killing them. Then the families always say it was excessive when the cops were in the fight of their lives just trying to not get killed!
@anddenex I have no idea what happened with your brothers accident so there's nothing I can say about it. However, if I'm an accountant, am I automatically a bad guy cause you knew another accountant that stole money??? You can not judge all officers by the actions of a few. It would defy all logic and good reasoning. The courts hold an officer's testimony with very high regard cause MOST cops are very good, honest and hard working people. The few bad apples get weeded out very quickly.
@pogijensen - I am not sure why youtube isn't letting me know you responded back. I understand their are good cops and I am grateful for those good cops. The question I ask myself now is, "How do I know that is a good cop or not?" I don't.
If I am looking at a video, and I see a cop come and the first thing he does is put his hands on his partner, and then mentions nothing in regard to this in his official report, then this is a dishonest report.
@pogijensen - Part 2 - A court shouldn't hold any person testimony in high regard. I know what you are saying is true though about courts.
Two years ago I went to court over a traffic ticket for my license plate. In court when the officer's lawyer asked if I told him who I bought the car from his first response was, "Yes." Then his lawyer looked at him, and then he changed his response, "I mean, No." The first response was correct. I did tell. Thus, I don't put much value in their words.
@anddenex There's still no logic in the second cop pulling the first cop away. When he arrived, what was he seeing? There was nothing abusive or excessive going on that would warrant him to try and restrain another officer. At that point the first cop was simply trying to put hands cuffs on the girl. The second cop was there to help with that. There was absolutely nothing going on at that point that could logically explain your position. If anything, the cop was being way too nice.
@pogijensen - "There was nothing abusive or excessive going on that would warrant him to try and restrain another officer." We see the video very differently.
"When a person resists arrest, the cops are authorized to use physical force in order to get those hand cuffs on you." I agree, and I have no problem with them slamming someone to the ground if the situation warrants such physical restraint.
Part 2 - "If anything, the cop was being way too nice." I would not say in the least that slapping a woman and punching (with full force) is being way to nice. It was excessive and uncalled for. He confirms the stereo type that most cops have control and power issues. With two cops there, somehow he felt threatened enough by a woman to fully close fist in her face? If he was being way to nice should he have hit her again then kneed her?
Part 3 - "Sorry buddy, there's just no logic in your argument; especially if you understand how cops work." Yes, there is logic, especially when the first thing the officer does is put his hands on the other officer first.
I worked in a correctional facility, and anytime before we used any form of PCS we would clear out anybody else in the way.
As I said before, if I came into one of these settings and the first thing I did was put my hand on my partner. It says he needs to back away.
@anddenex Being hands on with someone resisting is natural. If you really worked in a correctional facility you would know that when it comes to "hands on" everything nice goes out the door. You follow protocol on "use of force" and that's it. Grabbing someone's arms to put hand cuffs on them was in NO WAY out of line. Again, WHY would the second officer pull this guy away? There's no reason.
@pogijensen - "If you really worked in a correctional facility..." Yes, I agree with your statement. Anytime I entered into a situation where PCS was necessary I had to be fully committed. PCS isn't about being nice, it is about controlling a situation.
I agree grabbing someone's arms to put hand cuffs isn't out of line, but we aren't talking about grabbing arms are we? We are talking about the first officer first slapping the woman, and then clenched fist in her face. Very different.
@anddenex I think you're so stuck in your own thinking you're not really listening to what I'm telling you. I just happen to know these officers. I've talked with them and I know all the nitty gritty details, both in the reports and out of the reports. The reports only state the facts as things happened. They don't tell what the officer's were thinking, feeling or actions they were anticipating. There's a million things going thru your head in a situation like this.
@pogijensen - "I think your so stuck in your own thinking..." I think we feel the same way with regard to each other.
"I just happen to know these officers." Then, you have a better chance at being biased then I do. I am an outsider. I have no affiliation with the women or the officers. I am only watching what I see on the video and judging from my experience as a correctional officer.
I would agree, in these situations millions of things are going through your mind.
@anddenex I know for a fact this cop wasn't trying to hinder the first cop but rather to help him make the arrest. Even after the first cop punched the lady, the second cop still aided in the take down. That says a lot. If he was ok with a punch, why would he not be ok with hand cuffing the first lady? If you worked in correctional facility you would be dealing with people already in custody. You're procedures would be vastly different. You've never been the guy actually making the arrest.
@pogijensen - "I know for a fact this cop wasn't trying to hinder the first cop..." Of course he assisted the officer pulling her down, after she started hitting him. As I said, I am not justifying her actions. She was in the wrong to hit the officer and her discipline was coming. This doesn't shock me and is not my argument. The argument is "excessive force" and did the situation need or call for him clenching his fist and then nailing her? My opinion, NO, it was excessive.
@anddenex In a detention center everything works in your favor. Nobody's armed, there's no mob mentality, there's very few unexpected surprises and very rarely do you not have the upper hand. Things are much more cut and dry in your situation. Trying to compare what you know from a jail to law enforcement is comparing apples to oranges. There's nothing cut and dry in a cop's work. Every situation he's in he might as well assume he's not going to have the upper hand.
@pogijensen - "In a detention center everything works in your favor. Nobody's armed, there's no mob mentality..." I am going to assume you have never worked in a detention center. There is a reason why everybody is requested to go back to their rooms or cell, and any detainee who is not in their room or cell is considered not compliant and receives discipline.
Armed? You would be amazed at what this inmates arm themselves with. Favor? Not really, but better than outside.
@anddenex You're talking about two different points in the video. You're saying the punch was excessive but the second cop entered the scene before that happened. When the second cop arrived they were dealing with the black lady in the booth. The white ape lady was there and being incredibly obnoxious with her camera in the cop's face, she was even pushing her luck way too far but she was still being completely ignored at this point. You even agree there was nothing wrong with being hands on.
@pogijensen - "So I don't understand why you would think the second cop was trying to interfere..." I don't think I can explain myself any further without beating a dead horse.
As I mentioned, previously, I find it interesting that the first thing the second officer does is put his hands on his fellow officer first, and then initiates pulling him back.
In this scenario, and my experience, I would only put my hands on a fellow officer if I thought he needed to be removed.
@anddenex The second point in the video where the violence started: The white ape committed misdemeanor obstruction by pushing the cop. Then it was upgraded to felony obstruction for the assault. Why would you think this cop was not justified in hitting her back?? If you're at the jail and someone pushes you, do you just walk away? Is that acceptable at your work? If someone punches you multiple times with full force punches, that's ok? You're not allowed to strike back??
@pogijensen - "If you're at the jail and someone pushes you..." I would first warn the individual. If the individual did not cease and I was unable to control the situation I would have walked away to get help. Have I done this, the answer is Yes.
If I did as the officer did, I would have been discipline. If a detainee put their hands on me, and I warned him/her more than once, and then the next time they put their hands on me, slapped them. I would have been disciplined.
@pogijensen - "You're not allowed to strike back??" As we were trained, if your life is in danger than all rules are off. Protect yourself. If I was able to handle the situation without physical contact, then that was the preferred method.
As I mentioned, If I would have slapped her for just putting her hands on me I would have been disciplined. If I decked her as he did I would have been disciplined, because the situation did not necessitate such force.
@anddenex I know some correctional officers as well, I'm even related to a few. I've heard stories of people getting the ever living hell knocked out of them for trying to fight the officers. I'm sure you're allowed to use a level of force higher than what's being shown to you, just like the police. If someone punches you, you now have the green light to tear them a new hole with the baton until they stop fighting and resisting! If they walk up and push you, there going to get hit!
@anddenex In order for the action be excessive, the action must be above and beyond that which is laid out in SOPs and training. An example would be to shoot someone who pushed you. Cops are trained to use one level of force higher than what's being shown to them. If someone fails to obey orders, the cop can use OC spray or a taser. If they push a cop, the cop can hit them. If they punch a cop, the cop can hit them with the baton. If they pull any type of weapon, the cop can shoot them.
@pogijensen "If someone fails to obey orders, the cop can use OC spray or taser." This is a slippery slope. Not every disobedience to orders should result in OC spray or a taser.
The main issue with this whole episode is not necessarily that he punched her. It is the question, "Did the situation necessitate such a use of force?" Two officers, one female, and he slugged her? Yes, excessive force. Could they have detained her without punching her? Yes, they could have.
@pogijensen "If they can pull any type of weapon, the cop can shoot them." This wouldn't be correct. Different weapons determine when an officer can actually shoot someone. For example, just because someone pulls a knife doesn't mean an officer can shoot them.
In Utah, not sure other places, a knife must be drawn within 10 feet of an officer for an officer to pull his gun and shoot. It maybe 20 feet. I don't remember. Too long.
@anddenex Always one level higher. Always try to have the upper hand. Never try to fight a fair fight. A fair fight means your chances of winning go way down. A fair fight is the best way to injure or kill a cop. Cops know this, hence they're not fighting fairly. Women are no exception. They're just as violent, sometimes more so, than men. Women also have this stupid notion that they can get away with things because they're women. The cop couldn't care less.
@pogijensen - I agree cops shouldn't care if it is a women, if the situation presents itself just as dangerous. If not, then I would disagree.
I am not sure how you see me. I think there are two many restrictions on officers to do their job correctly. Yet at the same time an officer should be able to judge a situation and make the right call.
Do you remember the officer's OC'ing the 8 year old boy all over the news? I was/am totally fine with that. The boy had a weapon and threatened.
@anddenex Ahhh, ok. I see where you're coming from. You're rules of engagement are vastly different than that of the police. The police will use "verbal judo" to deescalate a situation if the confrontation is only verbal. If the situation must be controlled and words have not helped, other levels of force are used. When someone goes hands on with the police, everything changes. Pushing, punching or other hands on attacks are NOT tolerated.
@anddenex Agencies use different methods of teaching this but everyone comes to the same results at the end of the day. The way it was taught to me is "The Ladder of Force". The level would be Officer presence, the verbal commands, hands on take downs (depending on situation), OC spray, hands on strikes (depending on situation), baton and gun. APD does not have tasers but if they did it would be at the same level as the OC. There's so many different hands on techniques that it can cover a lot.
@anddenex We differ from you with a knife. Studies have shown that a perp with a knife can close a 30 foot gap faster than you can draw your gun and accurately shoot. Anything within 50 feet and our guns are already out. Same rules apply to blunt objects like bats or golf clubs. A gun, well that's a given. If the guy even hints at acting in a threatening manner he'll be taken down.
@pogijensen - "a perp with a knife can close a 30 foot gap faster than you can draw your gun." My friend who was a police officer didn't say anything about closing a gap, however he said that a knife for some perps can be thrown quicker and more accurately than anticipated.
I agree, I have no problem with officers using extreme force on people who have any weapon, even a pencil. Extreme force is necessary, the question is, was this force necessary with the woman? This is where we disagree.
@anddenex Once someone has gone hands on with the police the cops will immediately go to the ladder of force. If they're pushed, they will use hands on strikes. That includes punches, elbows, knees, take downs, arm bars, etc.... Everything hands on is now on the table along with OC spray and the taser if the cop has it. All of these tools are authorized at this point. If a suspect so much as double up his fist, it's immediately time for the ASP baton! They stress this very hard in training!
@pogijensen - "If a suspect so much as double up his fist, it's immediately time for the ASP baton! They stress this very hard in training!" I don't have any problem with this type of scenario you speak of.
As mentioned earlier, there are too many restrictions on police officers, unfortunately because of bad cops. I think, if officers are going into a gang house, all rules are off, and they should be able to use any means to take them down. Fear is proper for certain objectives. Not all.
@anddenex The police will NOT have a boxing match with you. They'll tear you a new one until you comply with orders and/or stop resisting. They'll always go a level higher to end the scenario as quickly as possible.
@pogijensen - "The police will NOT have a boxing match with you." I don't think they should, however they should judge a situation properly.
There are also studies completed showing when a group of people are excited it is hard to stop before it is too late, and things are no longer in their control (so to speak), they continue to react instead of acting soundly in a situation.
@anddenex The police are instructed to use their tools at the appropriate times according to this force spectrum. They're not trying to be nice or politically correct. They don't care about your feelings. Hands on abuse from the public is NOT tolerated at any level and is swiftly dealt with. I watched a guy take a Rodney King style beating with the batons cause he wouldn't put down a bottle he threatened a cop with. The cops are not here to play a game with people.
@pogijensen - "I watched a guy take a Rodney King style beating..." I have no problem with this because he "threatened a cop." At the same time, those batons are thick steel, and did it really take a Rodney King beating to subdue him? Really?
I watched a guy get tazed on youtube who was drunk and in the middle of the street. He took a swing at the officer. This guy was 6'5" or so and thick. The officer tazed him. He should have tazed him on his butt cheeks since his pants were sagging.
@anddenex Like I said before, the rules the police go by are vastly different than yours. I'm surprised, actually shocked, they limit you so much. That's a safety issue for you. If somebody is hands on with you and you walk away, think about what message that sends to the perp!! It undermines whatever authority you may have had and emboldens these pricks to challenge you with even more violent attacks. Now that is a slippery slope for you. A very dangerous slope to be on.
@pogijensen - To make myself clear. I am not at all against extreme force for officers if the situation calls for it. I think if officers are going into a place of a known murderer guns should be drawn. If they see him/her with a gun in hand. This guy should only have one warning. If he doesn't comply, put him down.
On the other hand, if a situation doesn't call for extreme force, then officers should use proper judgment and use what is necessary to handle the situation.
@anddenex Ok, you lost me. It sounds like you agree with everything I said, yet you have a problem with a cop punching a lady who has just swung 3 full power punches at the cop. Do you or don't you agree this ape needed to be knocked out by the cop? I think she fully deserved a hard punch for attacking the cop that way. That was a closed fist punch. Technically, the cop could have used his baton but I don't think he even had enough time to pull it out.
@anddenex As for the Rodney King style beating on the guy with the bottle; the guy wouldn't drop the bottle or stay down. It really reminded me of Rodney King cause that prick wouldn't stay down either and wouldn't stop resisting. The cops only got into trouble on King cause they kept kicking him AFTER he finally gave up and stopped resisting.
@anddenex So this ape lady was completely ignored while she was being incredibly obnoxious, holding the camera in the cops face and literally getting in the way. The cop ignores all that. He didn't try to slap her away until she physically pushed him. Again, technically he could have closed fist punched her right there for pushing him away from the girl he was trying to arrest, aiding in the escape of an arrestee.
@anddenex He gave her more of a warning slap saying "I'm very serious about you not interfering with my work and you'll be in trouble if you don't go away". That lady knew she was obstructing the cop. Did she think this was a joke? Why would you push a cop away from the the person he's arresting and think that cop won't strike back?? Now the cop is dealing with 2 combative woman simultaneously. He already couldn't get cuffs on the first lady without hurting her, he was really trying too.
@anddenex These videos don't show it but the black lady he was trying to arrest had already punched him once and he was still being nice enough to only try to grab her arms to put cuffs on her. She could have caught a fist too, and probably should have. This cop was being more than patient with these girls but it hit a point where enough was enough and he had to get serious and let these idiot women know he was serious. I don't care who you are, you can't detain 2 combative people at once.
@anddenex The investigation into this lasted about 10 days, compared to the usual 3 months to 1 year it usually takes an investigation. Meaning it was a very open and closed case. The cop was completely cleared of any wrong doing. He followed his training perfectly and acted well within the trained and authorized levels of force. The only reason there was even an investigation was because it was protocol after a use of force incident.
@anddenex Let’s start off in the beginning so we’re on the same page. The Officer has to have a permit, granted from the city to work extra jobs. The reason being, when an Officer is working an extra job, he has all the same authority as if he/she were at work on a regular shift. This Officer at IHOP was working an extra job for IHOP.
@anddenex IHOP needs Officers at the location due to the high number of drunks that go there to eat after the clubs close down for the night. So the night of this incident, IHOP was FILLED to capacity with mostly drunk people. The management at IHOP gave specific instructions to the Officer that any behavior over the top would warrant him to act in behalf of IHOP and warn the person(s) to behave and/or ask them to leave. Such behavior as yelling, foul/vulgar language, fighting, etc…
@anddenex If a person is asked to leave and they refuse, they can be charged with Criminal Trespass and arrested. IHOP is private property and they can refuse service to anyone they please. GA Code 16-7-21, subsection B3. If an Officer is speaking in behalf of the restaurant, then he can ask you to leave, or physically remove you.
@anddenex The night of this incident, you have a restaurant full of people who are drunk or have been drinking (the overwhelming majority), you have the cop who was hired to work security in his full police powers in case something happens or in case someone needs to be removed from the restaurant. Now that we know that, we can continue.
@anddenex Some guys come into the restaurant dressed in Star Wars costumes. The women in the booth next to them were making fun of them and making fun of their costumes. This apparently progresses to the point the girls were screaming, well over the volume of an already noisy crowd. While they were screaming, they were swearing and being vulgar. The Officer, who was already there cause he’s working there, can obviously can see and hear this.
@anddenex The Officer approached the women and asked them to please quiet down and not to use foul or vulgar language in the restaurant. The women refused and immediately challenged the Officer telling him he “has no right to tell them what to do”. The Officer tells them again to quiet down, again the women refuse.
@anddenex The Officer then tells the women they need to leave the restaurant. Again this is met with a challenge. They tell the Officer that he’s “not the real police” and that they’re “going to call the real police”. Note; the Officer was in full uniform. The Officer told them he is “the real police”. One woman stated that she was a criminal justice major and she “knew her rights” and that the cop couldn’t “do anything” to them. The Officer tells them to leave at least 2 or 3 times.
@anddenex After multiple warnings, after the cop identified himself as the “real police” (which he didn’t have to do), the Officer finally tells them they’re under arrest for Criminal Trespass and proceeds in attempting to hand cuff the fist girl. The girl immediately starts resisting the arrest, punching the Officer then sliding back as far as she can and moving her arms around so the cop can’t get hand cuffs on her. The cop grabs her shoulder in an attempt to pull her forward.
@anddenex While this is happening, another lady in a black dress, (who by the way does NOT know the women in the booth), comes over and is holding a camera phone in the cop’s face. The cop simply ignores this and continues with what he’s doing. This lady then decides she’s going to PHYSICALLY PUSH the Officer away from the girl! There's already a misdemeanor obstruction charge which is an arrestable offence.
@anddenex The cop gives this lady a quick hand check, causing her absolutely no harm, but letting her know he’s more than serious and that she needs to BACK OFF!! This lady goes into ape mode and starts swinging and punching wildly, connecting punches to the Officer. The Officer struck back with a single punch. Now that the Officer’s attention has been forced to this lady instead of his original suspect, he takes her down and places her in cuffs.
@anddenex The original girl the Officer was trying to arrest thinks she’s slick and goes for a quick get-away running out of the restaurant. She was shortly thereafter caught hiding in the back seat of a car while the car was trying to leave the parking lot. She got additional charges for Fleeing and Eluding.
@anddenex Put yourself in the Officer’s shoes at this point. You’re trying to arrest someone in the midst of hundreds of drunk people with several people shouting all around you. The lady you’re trying to arrest is resisting in every manner and has even punched you! You have a camera being held IN YOUR FACE. Now you have someone PHYSICALLY PUSHING YOU away from the person you’re trying to arrest! You’ve now been forced to go hands on with two combative people simultaneously, not by your choice!
@anddenex You know from training that anybody in this crowd poses a growing lethal threat to your life, men and women. Every table has been given forks and knives and no matter how skilled you are, you CANNOT watch everybody’s hands at once, and STILL focus on the person you’re arresting. This scenario has to end NOW or you may not live through it.
@anddenex Under all the circumstances there this lady is way lucky she only got punched once. If I were there I probably would have been using elbows to go for a one hit knock out so I wouldn't have to deal with 2 people at once. Since the second cop did get there right before everything exploded maybe an elbow wouldn't be needed. However, the fist girl still nearly escaped!!! The only reason she was caught was because this cop called for help and more than one Officer came to the scene.
@anddenex The cop gave these ladies a chance to be decent and finish their meals. They wouldn't do that. He gave them more than one chance to leave, they wouldn't do that either. He had no choice but to arrest them at that point. Everybody in the restaurant could see this. Several witness statements were given and all of them supported the cop saying was very patient before the fireworks started going off. The girls escalated this out of control, not the cop.
@anddenex I'm sure with a scene like this, people will start pulling out there cameras. Which they did. Yet this stupid ape still thought it was somehow ok to push the cop away from the girl he was trying to arrest. Ya, the cop slapped her away. Like I said before, she's lucky she didn't catch a fist the first time! In truth, the second cop should have yanked that stupid ape out of that booth and slammed her on the ground before the first guy even had a chance to punch her.
@anddenex I'm sure the second cop had his attention on the first girl and things just didn't register fast enough to realize this ape turned into a major threat. You can actually see the light bulb turn on as he starts grabbing her and pulling her away. It was too late at that point.
@anddenex Watch some of the other view points of this as well. Search "Atlanta Police IHOP". On that page you'll have a few good videos to watch that show different view points. Watch: "Police Brutality" and "Boba Fett from IHOP talks".
@anddenex A non-related video, but still a good example of this same situation is; "Cop punches girl in face: Police Brutality in Seattle?". This cop was also very quickly cleared for punching this girl after she pushed him trying to let her friend escape. This video also stirred up a lot of feeling from the public, both for and against the cop. The cop was cleared because even on the other side of the country, the use of force principles for the police are the same.
@pogijensen - "Cop punches girl in face: Police Brutality in Seattle?" I watched this, and I am not sure this was even necessary. Honestly I am borderline. Here is my concern, whether or not it can be justified under a cops authority, the question still exists. What is necessary, or excessive?
My concern is one day a cop is going to take action like this, and the civilians in the area, will join in. It won't be civilians taking pictures or videos. They will hammer the cop.
Part 2 - Each and every citizen has the a right given by our constitution to defend against tyranny. If enough of a population decides (whether within guidelines or not) an officer used excessive force, and the population has had enough of it.
You won't just see the girl push. I fear we will eventually see, people putting down cameras and the officer will have to face not only the person being arrested, but everybody else. Then he/she is in trouble.
Part 3 - Cops, still need to use caution, within their guidelines. If you notice in the Seattle picture there are I believe a couple male civilians who it appeared were ready to pounce in if the situation escalated further.
If the courts continue to allow, what a majority of the population interprets as tyranny, or excessive abuse. They won't wait for the courts anymore to handle an issue. So they will handle it themselves. Even if it wasn't tyranny.
Part 4 - Cops need to be vigilant, and civilians need to be understanding and respectful. As I said, I fear, we are heading into an era where if the civilians feel threatened enough, and the courts do nothing about it, it won't matter anymore. All bets will be off.
And if you think cops jobs are difficult and dangerous now...well...this will be a walk in the park compared to what it may become.
The fault will be on both sides. This is my concern.
@anddenex If multiple people attack a cop at once the cop could then use lethal force. Being there's no way he can fight everybody off and he would be at that point of great bodily harm or death if a greater force is not used. Until the courts say otherwise, the police will continue doing what they're doing. People just need to understand that the cops will not show them respect if they're physically pushing and assaulting the them! It's not like these guys are just out of control.
@pogijensen - "If multiple people attack a cop at once the cop could then use lethal force." And even more the reason I am concerned, not only for the officer but for the civilians and the catalyst this type of confrontation will start.
I am not saying it will, I am saying in our world, I don't naively think anymore that people will be good and make good choices. This includes officers and civilians.
I agree, if an officer's life is threatened the rules of engagement change.
@anddenex They're only acting with force when force has been shown to them or to a civilian. The REAL problem is how the media continues to spin these stories. Nobody ever hears anything other than how bad the cop was, even when the cop's in the right! If the media would tell the whole story people would understand why the cops did what they did.
@pogijensen - "They're only acting with force when force has been shown to them or to a civilian." I would agree to a point, a good number of officers do "only" act with force when force is shown, however unfortunately this isn't true for all cops.
Media actually does spin many outcomes in a different light. I remember the 8 year old who was sprayed. A media channel I was listening to was using the logical fallacy of an appeal to pity. However, I believe both sides need to be objective.
@anddenex I've been away for a few days so sorry for the late response. -- I can't find any videos clearly showing anything so all I can go on is news reports. Sadly, again, the media will always put a negative twist on things so it's hard to get the "real" story.
@anddenex From what I can gather this was a mentally ill homeless man who had become violent because he was off his meds. The police tried to stop him in connection to car break ins. How much info they had is unknown but even if this man was only "suspicious" they can at least detain him to get more info during an investigation. When the police approached him and he took off running, well, that's not exactly helping his case any. Police are trained to watch for several signs that indicate guilt.
@anddenex So far in this situation everything sounds very legit. It turns ugly when the cops chase him down and catch him. From what I'm gathering it was a very ugly fight. The media is saying he was beaten and I'm "assuming" it was with the batons. That was fine, the police can do that UNTIL THE PERSON STOPS RESISTING! It sounds a lot like Rodney King at this point.
@anddenex Here's what the general public doesn't know and what the media so kindly leaves out. People who are mentally ill and/or on drugs don't register pain the same way, if at all, and their mind won't be right. You can beat someone to death who's high on crack or meth and they'll never feel it. It makes the cops job incredibly hard cause these people are like super humans with no brain. A very dangerous combo.
@pogijensen - "People who are mentally ill and/or on drugs don't register pain the same way, if at all..." I have never heard this regarding mentally ill, however drugs is for sure.
My friend I told you about who is an officer explained how one of his fellow officers stopped a guy on meth. He partner unloaded a full round of 9mm slugs into this guy, and the guy was still able to reach the officer with an hatchet. Before another half round dropped him. I think a total of 15 shots or more.
@ZeroMaiden00 - "I am sure you are mentally ill." LOL, great ad hominem. Instead of actually responding to my comments you insult. The "zero" in your subscriber name describes your comment to the "T".
@anddenex The fight with Kelly Thomas sounds like it was that kind of fight. Two officers were badly hurt; one with a broken arm and another with broken ribs. So to say there were too many people.....nonsense. To say the force level was too high.....nonsense. Obviously this guy wasn't going down easily or without a fight. Even after multiple taserings he still wasn't stopping. Now I don't know much of anything about tasers as my department won't issue them so I've never been around them.
@anddenex Without being there I can only make guesses as to what happened. Police are trained to aim for "center mass" with the batons. That includes the torso, arms and legs. Absolutely no head shots with the baton!!! However, hitting a stationary target is easy to do, hitting a moving target is a complete different ball game. I've watched officers more than once take a swing at someone and that person will simultaneously duck. I don't know why people do that, maybe it's a defense mechanism.
@pogijensen - "I've watched officers more than once take a swing at someone and that person will simultaneously duck."
Just my opinion, I think this reaction is due to the likelihood of being in a fight. Most fighters won't go for your torso, they will go for head shots.
Sorda like dodge ball, when you throw at the torso, and yet the person is instinctively ducking and then gets clocked. Did that to my son today playing dodge ball.
@anddenex When people reach a certain level of fear and/or pain, their bodies will instinctively go into the fetal position. So maybe this has something to do with it. Just a guess, I'm not a scientist. But you can see the dilemma, if I'm aiming at your torso and you duck, what am I now hitting....your head. The only time head shots are allowable is when the situation calls for deadly force and for some reason you can't get to your gun. At that point, anything is justifiable.
@anddenex At this point, I'm going to withhold judgement until there's more info. This could be a horrible accident or it could be a jackass cop hitting the guy in the head when he shouldn't have. From what I'm hearing so far, everything was good except the head shots IF those shots were from a baton. The cops are authorized to punch the face and head during a fight. So there's really not a lot to go on yet.
@pogijensen - "At this point, I'm going to withhold judgement until there's more info..." Same, the video's I watched didn't show enough detail to come to any sober conclusion.
I kinda figured, either you were or are an officer of some sort and wanted to ask if you had heard anything.
@anddenex If you push a cop, he can and probably will hit you. It's the same all over the country. Always one level of force higher than what's being shown to the cop. If it's only a verbal dispute the cop will try the verbal judo approach trying to deescalate the situation. Once you go hands on with the cop, it's a different game. Police train for countless hours in the academy and then on a regular basis afterwards with "what if" scenarios.
@anddenex I guess it comes down to this; whether you agree or not, this cop acted according to his training and within the guidelines of what he was authorized to do.
@anddenex I have no idea what the procedures are for detention facilities but I'm intimately aware of what police can and cannot do. The tools they're given and the authorized force levels they use are there for the officer's safety. Again, it doesn't make any sense at all that this cop would try to pull the first cop away from the person he was arresting. They don't have tasers, mace would clear out the entire restaurant, nobody was using the baton, it was simply hands on. No infractions at all
@anddenex When a person resists arrest, the cops are authorized to use physical force in order to get those hand cuffs on you. They'll even pick you up and slam you into the ground as a way to stun a person long enough to give the cop an upper hand, element of surprise if you will, to get those hand cuffs on. For you to be correct in your argument, there would have to be something more going on that would "shock the conscious" of the second officer.
@anddenex If he arrived and saw this man pounding the blood out of her, he would probably have his eye brows up thinking "what the hell is going on?" If then, he saw her fighting he would jump in the fight. If she was being submissive he should try to restrain and/or calm the first officer. This girl was not following commands and not being submissive. At any point in the video this is evident. Sorry buddy, there's just no logic in your argument; especially if you understand how cops work.
@anddenex If ANYTHING AT ALL, the second cop was saying "let me get in there and get her" thinking he could pull her out faster. There really wasn't room for two people in that same spot. I have no idea where you live or if you've eaten at this particular IHOP. I've eaten there several times and those booths are small, very small. It's physically impossible to fit to grown men side by side in that booth sideways where they could both have their hands on that girl.
@anddenex Only one of them could reach her at a time, unless the second officer pushing that dumb ape out of the way and tried pulling the lady over the table.
@anddenex You can't fault a cop for remember everything that happened on your traffic stop. For you, you remember every detail. This was a major event that will stay in your memory. For the cop, you were one of many stops just that day. By the time he saw you in court he had stopped literally hundreds of people. He probably didn't even really recognize who you were!
@pogijensen -"You can't fault a cop for remember everything that happened on your traffic stop." Yes, I can especially when it cost me $100.00. If he couldn't remember everything then he should have responded, "I don't remember." However, his first response was "yes", and it wasn't until the lawyer prodded him then he changed his answer to, "I mean, No."
@anddenex In fact, someone thought they'd get smart with the courts and try this on them. This guy had his son stand in for him at court. When the lawyer asked if the man at the podium was the driver, the cop said "yes". Later the man admitted he was not the driver and the traffic case was thrown out. They won!! Well, not really. They were both locked up for lying under oath and false representation to the court. They would have been better off with the traffic ticket.
Piece of shit dirty cop gotta punch a women if i was there i wouldve shot that nigga in a second
scenaj 4 days ago
Thoes police needs to be FIRED!!!
Tasha1635 1 week ago
@TankTysonFan im not a racist but people usually do refer to black people as "black people" instead of "that guy" usually its "that BLACK GUY"
Monkeyboi4567 1 week ago
mannn.....they are cute.fine
sexy24244 4 weeks ago
I don't know what this was about, but props to the white girl for sticking up for her homegirl, even if she got taken down because of it. At least they know she is down if some shit pops off.
bigwilly43729 1 month ago
@bigwilly43729 Why do blacks find it necessary to call all whites white when they are refering to them? huh Blackie?
TankTysonFan 1 month ago
@TankTysonFan What was I supposed to say stupid? The girl looked white, therefore I called her white.
Oh noes, someone called me blackie on the Internet! What will I do now?
Do us all a favor. Find bridge, see bridge, move onto bridge, jump off bridge. Thanks for playing.
bigwilly43729 1 month ago
@TankTysonFan
Why do white people find it necessary to fuck their own family members? Is "everyone else" outside of Ifuckmymamawville scary? Huh, Jethro?
ChannelBelongs2Scott 1 month ago
Wow...looks like the same people in my video "Lake lanier beatdown / beach fight"! Search for it under my user ID mket2006. Georgia, where everyday is an episode from Jerry Springer. Thanks for uploading this!
mket2006 2 months ago
the worst decision this country made was to bring them here from africa.. ..
calicmb25 2 months ago
@calicmb25 Who? the white girl that punched the cop? Yea she should have stayed in post apartheid SA!
gatech2b 2 months ago
the black girl left her friend lolol
braulio2122 3 months ago
WOW! The guy at the end is WAYYYYYYYY super cute!!!!
latinguy67 3 months ago
guy at the end , how you doiin
jrnono11 4 months ago
Nothing is that bad, that you cannot check your phone :) See the girl left back at the table.
Tobberuppen 4 months ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
I am a guy and I despise and hate guy who hit girl.
pikabooxxXD 4 months ago
Comment removed
pikabooxxXD 4 months ago
Like the empire would let dumb mother fuckers like those three in HA!
richie2910 5 months ago
You Americans know nothing about freedom... come to India i ll show you where you belong
mohamadalikazi 5 months ago
@mohamadalikazi smells like shit over there. its cuse you guys bath in it. thats why your skin is the same colour of it
milton123 3 months ago
@milton123 hahaha! Hey why dont you say that to an Indian's face? Dont have balls?
mohamadalikazi 3 months ago
@mohamadalikazi I rip on the pakidot shitfaces in my neighbourhood all the time. I would gladly say it to your face any time any where tough guy. this currie fucker trying to act tough on the internet haha. listen man, you're brown, deal with it, EVERYONE hates your people. you smell bad, you're all ugly and your skin is literally the COLOR OF THE SHIT THAT COMES OUT OF EVERYONE'S asses. go suicide bomb some of your own people in india
milton123 3 months ago
America is the shittiest, shallowest, egocentric CUNTRY in the universe
mohamadalikazi 5 months ago
these cops have no strengh hahaaha
JacksonXxXWaWa 5 months ago
YOu people justifying for police brutal ity need to imagine yourselves in their shoes. Because soon enough police will be after anyone. No more civilians, just potential criminals. Does anyone know what democracy mean anymore?
BoysForPele1989 5 months ago
black people...
JonMan69071 5 months ago
like the empire would let moolies in.
quarfv 6 months ago
wtf is wrong with that cop hitting a girl 4 no reason
lexiboobear100 6 months ago
@lexiboobear100 you probably didn't see what she was doing before now did you princess?
lsu768 6 months ago
@lsu768 i dont care wat she did guys dont hit girls for 1 and 2 he hi her twice ?!!
lexiboobear100 5 months ago
Man that's some beautiful fucking capitalism! As soon as one set of diners is dragged away in handcuffs after fighting with the police, another party is seated immediately.
You can't beat restaurant efficiency in the U.S.! It's the one thing we truly do well here.
DartmouthAlum96 6 months ago 11
@DartmouthAlum96 well said, some will not understand what you mean because they cant see beyond the context and attention span of a rat (and even a rat is more perceptive) but you hit the nail on the head, also how about an applause for all the COWARDS that did nothing the moment that idiot with a uniform and "authority" hit that girl? life in the US is about to change and as someone already said, at some point everyone will be viewd as a potential criminal WAKE UP PEOPLE
animwild 5 months ago
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@DartmouthAlum96 well said, some will not understand what you mean because they cant see beyond the context and attention span of a rat (and even a rat is more perceptive) but you hit the nail on the head, also how about an applause for all the COWARDS that did nothing the moment that idiot with a uniform and "authority" hit that girl? life in the US is about to change and as someone already said, at some point everyone will be viewd as a potential criminal WAKE UP PEOPLE
animwild 5 months ago
you two are fucking hot
missbrie333 6 months ago
police brutality.... :l
randyrandyyrandyyy 6 months ago
Kinny J
j16l 6 months ago 2
could you guys move to los angeles?
ilovemythreads 6 months ago
damn could i get both of your numbers??
ilovemythreads 6 months ago
why the fuk is that black girl resisting she s only getting herself in more trouble until that stupid bitch with the black dress had to punch him
blackopsmaster001 6 months ago
WHY is that dude cheering on the police ?? Is he a moron ?? That girl was trying to get her friend free of the police's choke hold.
I had no idea IHOP in Atlanta is that crowded at 3 AM.
I sure hope all of these ladies got a lawyer and their lawyers used this video as evidence of police brutality.
indyfan22k 6 months ago
@indyfan22k The video was used in the cops defense. Because of the video, the cop was very quickly cleared of any wrong doing and the charges against the ape lady were upgraded to a felony. Justice was served!
pogijensen 6 months ago 2
@pogijensen
The lady needs a good lawyer. Justice is NOT served. Her friend was in a insanely wrong choke hold. She was trying to protect her friend. Police can't handle people that way.
indyfan22k 6 months ago
@indyfan22k She was not in a choke hold. The ape lady didn't know anybody in that booth. The officer was trying to make a very justified arrest and the lady was resisting. There was nothing brutal about it. The ape had no right to interfere and physically obstruct the officer and aid the escape of the arrestee.
pogijensen 6 months ago
@indyfan22k sorry but "I didn't do anything" doesn't get you out of being arrested. that was resisting arrest. and punching a police officer is a felony. i dunno what kind of justice you have but, if those people were not drunk or disorderly they would have had the brains to not punch a police officer. whether or not you like it that is illegal.
ryogto 6 months ago 10
@your a complete fucking idiot. That officer deserves to be prosecuted and sent to fucking prison ESPECIALLY since he is a police officer. Please tell me why the Police is not a career thats been professionalized????? ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT JOBS IN OUR SOCIETY. & we have a bunch of power abusing PUNKS running around with badges. Our cj system is a complete joke and our police officers are uneducated assholes wih badges. FUCK THE POLICE.
SMcG4823 4 months ago
@SMcG4823 The cop did nothing wrong, fuck off.
fear614 2 months ago
That girl in the silver dress was like "YEAH!! I won, bitch!"
Krispykreme1988 6 months ago
@ZeroMaiden00 Is there a point you're working towards?? This must be a challenge for an idiot like yourself.
pogijensen 6 months ago
The white lady hit the cop a few times and the cops jumped her.
ZeroMaiden00 6 months ago
Obviously this became an out-of control situation on the cop's part, but the girl in the beginning was clearly resisting arrest
achaserofrocks 7 months ago
@anddenex I watched another video today of a man who charged two cops with a knife. The cops tasered him but somehow the taser had little effect and the guy still would not drop the knife or stop advancing on the cops. The cops finally shot him 7 or 8 times. The family is now crying that it was excessive force and that the cops should have only shot a couple rounds at his legs. Unreal. I would have aimed for his head after the first 2 or 3 rounds failed to stop him.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@pogijensen - "I would have aimed for his head after the first 2 or 3 rounds failed to stop him." As would I have, if a man was coming at me with a knife with killing intent.
I have no pity for individuals who aggressively, with weapons, attack officers. In this situation if the cops first tried with a taser, and this didn't work, and he was still coming with intent to harm or kill with a knife. Each officer has a right to return home to their family and protect themselves.
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex Mentally ill patients feel pain but it doesn't always register in their brain the same or as fast. Maybe due to meds, pain killers or other reasons. Meth and crack addicts however, they feel nothing at all. It's very hard dealing with these people because nothing works short of killing them. Then the families always say it was excessive when the cops were in the fight of their lives just trying to not get killed!
pogijensen 7 months ago
fat brown cop beating up and black and brown women. welcome to america.
seanncali 7 months ago
@anddenex I have no idea what happened with your brothers accident so there's nothing I can say about it. However, if I'm an accountant, am I automatically a bad guy cause you knew another accountant that stole money??? You can not judge all officers by the actions of a few. It would defy all logic and good reasoning. The courts hold an officer's testimony with very high regard cause MOST cops are very good, honest and hard working people. The few bad apples get weeded out very quickly.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@pogijensen - I am not sure why youtube isn't letting me know you responded back. I understand their are good cops and I am grateful for those good cops. The question I ask myself now is, "How do I know that is a good cop or not?" I don't.
If I am looking at a video, and I see a cop come and the first thing he does is put his hands on his partner, and then mentions nothing in regard to this in his official report, then this is a dishonest report.
anddenex 7 months ago
@pogijensen - Part 2 - A court shouldn't hold any person testimony in high regard. I know what you are saying is true though about courts.
Two years ago I went to court over a traffic ticket for my license plate. In court when the officer's lawyer asked if I told him who I bought the car from his first response was, "Yes." Then his lawyer looked at him, and then he changed his response, "I mean, No." The first response was correct. I did tell. Thus, I don't put much value in their words.
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex There's still no logic in the second cop pulling the first cop away. When he arrived, what was he seeing? There was nothing abusive or excessive going on that would warrant him to try and restrain another officer. At that point the first cop was simply trying to put hands cuffs on the girl. The second cop was there to help with that. There was absolutely nothing going on at that point that could logically explain your position. If anything, the cop was being way too nice.
pogijensen 7 months ago
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@pogijensen - "There was nothing abusive or excessive going on that would warrant him to try and restrain another officer." We see the video very differently.
"When a person resists arrest, the cops are authorized to use physical force in order to get those hand cuffs on you." I agree, and I have no problem with them slamming someone to the ground if the situation warrants such physical restraint.
anddenex 7 months ago
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Part 2 - "If anything, the cop was being way too nice." I would not say in the least that slapping a woman and punching (with full force) is being way to nice. It was excessive and uncalled for. He confirms the stereo type that most cops have control and power issues. With two cops there, somehow he felt threatened enough by a woman to fully close fist in her face? If he was being way to nice should he have hit her again then kneed her?
anddenex 7 months ago
Part 3 - "Sorry buddy, there's just no logic in your argument; especially if you understand how cops work." Yes, there is logic, especially when the first thing the officer does is put his hands on the other officer first.
I worked in a correctional facility, and anytime before we used any form of PCS we would clear out anybody else in the way.
As I said before, if I came into one of these settings and the first thing I did was put my hand on my partner. It says he needs to back away.
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex You're missing the point. What was he doing wrong at that point in time that would warrant the second cop to pull him away?? Nothing.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex Being hands on with someone resisting is natural. If you really worked in a correctional facility you would know that when it comes to "hands on" everything nice goes out the door. You follow protocol on "use of force" and that's it. Grabbing someone's arms to put hand cuffs on them was in NO WAY out of line. Again, WHY would the second officer pull this guy away? There's no reason.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@pogijensen - "If you really worked in a correctional facility..." Yes, I agree with your statement. Anytime I entered into a situation where PCS was necessary I had to be fully committed. PCS isn't about being nice, it is about controlling a situation.
I agree grabbing someone's arms to put hand cuffs isn't out of line, but we aren't talking about grabbing arms are we? We are talking about the first officer first slapping the woman, and then clenched fist in her face. Very different.
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex I think you're so stuck in your own thinking you're not really listening to what I'm telling you. I just happen to know these officers. I've talked with them and I know all the nitty gritty details, both in the reports and out of the reports. The reports only state the facts as things happened. They don't tell what the officer's were thinking, feeling or actions they were anticipating. There's a million things going thru your head in a situation like this.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@pogijensen - "I think your so stuck in your own thinking..." I think we feel the same way with regard to each other.
"I just happen to know these officers." Then, you have a better chance at being biased then I do. I am an outsider. I have no affiliation with the women or the officers. I am only watching what I see on the video and judging from my experience as a correctional officer.
I would agree, in these situations millions of things are going through your mind.
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex I know for a fact this cop wasn't trying to hinder the first cop but rather to help him make the arrest. Even after the first cop punched the lady, the second cop still aided in the take down. That says a lot. If he was ok with a punch, why would he not be ok with hand cuffing the first lady? If you worked in correctional facility you would be dealing with people already in custody. You're procedures would be vastly different. You've never been the guy actually making the arrest.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@pogijensen - "I know for a fact this cop wasn't trying to hinder the first cop..." Of course he assisted the officer pulling her down, after she started hitting him. As I said, I am not justifying her actions. She was in the wrong to hit the officer and her discipline was coming. This doesn't shock me and is not my argument. The argument is "excessive force" and did the situation need or call for him clenching his fist and then nailing her? My opinion, NO, it was excessive.
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex In a detention center everything works in your favor. Nobody's armed, there's no mob mentality, there's very few unexpected surprises and very rarely do you not have the upper hand. Things are much more cut and dry in your situation. Trying to compare what you know from a jail to law enforcement is comparing apples to oranges. There's nothing cut and dry in a cop's work. Every situation he's in he might as well assume he's not going to have the upper hand.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@pogijensen - "In a detention center everything works in your favor. Nobody's armed, there's no mob mentality..." I am going to assume you have never worked in a detention center. There is a reason why everybody is requested to go back to their rooms or cell, and any detainee who is not in their room or cell is considered not compliant and receives discipline.
Armed? You would be amazed at what this inmates arm themselves with. Favor? Not really, but better than outside.
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex I agree that there are still many dangers in the jails and contraband still gets inside. But yes, it's nothing like being outside.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex You're talking about two different points in the video. You're saying the punch was excessive but the second cop entered the scene before that happened. When the second cop arrived they were dealing with the black lady in the booth. The white ape lady was there and being incredibly obnoxious with her camera in the cop's face, she was even pushing her luck way too far but she was still being completely ignored at this point. You even agree there was nothing wrong with being hands on.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex So I don't understand why you would think the second cop was trying to interfere with the first cop if nothing was wrong at that point.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@pogijensen - "So I don't understand why you would think the second cop was trying to interfere..." I don't think I can explain myself any further without beating a dead horse.
As I mentioned, previously, I find it interesting that the first thing the second officer does is put his hands on his fellow officer first, and then initiates pulling him back.
In this scenario, and my experience, I would only put my hands on a fellow officer if I thought he needed to be removed.
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex The second point in the video where the violence started: The white ape committed misdemeanor obstruction by pushing the cop. Then it was upgraded to felony obstruction for the assault. Why would you think this cop was not justified in hitting her back?? If you're at the jail and someone pushes you, do you just walk away? Is that acceptable at your work? If someone punches you multiple times with full force punches, that's ok? You're not allowed to strike back??
pogijensen 7 months ago
@pogijensen - "If you're at the jail and someone pushes you..." I would first warn the individual. If the individual did not cease and I was unable to control the situation I would have walked away to get help. Have I done this, the answer is Yes.
If I did as the officer did, I would have been discipline. If a detainee put their hands on me, and I warned him/her more than once, and then the next time they put their hands on me, slapped them. I would have been disciplined.
anddenex 7 months ago
@pogijensen - "You're not allowed to strike back??" As we were trained, if your life is in danger than all rules are off. Protect yourself. If I was able to handle the situation without physical contact, then that was the preferred method.
As I mentioned, If I would have slapped her for just putting her hands on me I would have been disciplined. If I decked her as he did I would have been disciplined, because the situation did not necessitate such force.
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex I'm having an incredibly hard time believing your actions in the jail would have been any different.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex I know some correctional officers as well, I'm even related to a few. I've heard stories of people getting the ever living hell knocked out of them for trying to fight the officers. I'm sure you're allowed to use a level of force higher than what's being shown to you, just like the police. If someone punches you, you now have the green light to tear them a new hole with the baton until they stop fighting and resisting! If they walk up and push you, there going to get hit!
pogijensen 7 months ago
@pogijensen "If someone punches you, you now have the green light..." No, I do not have the right to tear them a new whole with a baton.
If a detainee pushed me, I didn't have the right to punch them. If I felt I could handle the situation alone, I would first authorized to use PCS.
The only time I was given authority to punch, or whatever, was if my life was in danger and the situation could not have been handled otherwise.
I was to keep in control of myself and my actions.
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex *they're* going to get hit.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex In order for the action be excessive, the action must be above and beyond that which is laid out in SOPs and training. An example would be to shoot someone who pushed you. Cops are trained to use one level of force higher than what's being shown to them. If someone fails to obey orders, the cop can use OC spray or a taser. If they push a cop, the cop can hit them. If they punch a cop, the cop can hit them with the baton. If they pull any type of weapon, the cop can shoot them.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@pogijensen "If someone fails to obey orders, the cop can use OC spray or taser." This is a slippery slope. Not every disobedience to orders should result in OC spray or a taser.
The main issue with this whole episode is not necessarily that he punched her. It is the question, "Did the situation necessitate such a use of force?" Two officers, one female, and he slugged her? Yes, excessive force. Could they have detained her without punching her? Yes, they could have.
anddenex 7 months ago
@pogijensen "If they can pull any type of weapon, the cop can shoot them." This wouldn't be correct. Different weapons determine when an officer can actually shoot someone. For example, just because someone pulls a knife doesn't mean an officer can shoot them.
In Utah, not sure other places, a knife must be drawn within 10 feet of an officer for an officer to pull his gun and shoot. It maybe 20 feet. I don't remember. Too long.
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex Always one level higher. Always try to have the upper hand. Never try to fight a fair fight. A fair fight means your chances of winning go way down. A fair fight is the best way to injure or kill a cop. Cops know this, hence they're not fighting fairly. Women are no exception. They're just as violent, sometimes more so, than men. Women also have this stupid notion that they can get away with things because they're women. The cop couldn't care less.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@pogijensen - I agree cops shouldn't care if it is a women, if the situation presents itself just as dangerous. If not, then I would disagree.
I am not sure how you see me. I think there are two many restrictions on officers to do their job correctly. Yet at the same time an officer should be able to judge a situation and make the right call.
Do you remember the officer's OC'ing the 8 year old boy all over the news? I was/am totally fine with that. The boy had a weapon and threatened.
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex Ahhh, ok. I see where you're coming from. You're rules of engagement are vastly different than that of the police. The police will use "verbal judo" to deescalate a situation if the confrontation is only verbal. If the situation must be controlled and words have not helped, other levels of force are used. When someone goes hands on with the police, everything changes. Pushing, punching or other hands on attacks are NOT tolerated.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex Agencies use different methods of teaching this but everyone comes to the same results at the end of the day. The way it was taught to me is "The Ladder of Force". The level would be Officer presence, the verbal commands, hands on take downs (depending on situation), OC spray, hands on strikes (depending on situation), baton and gun. APD does not have tasers but if they did it would be at the same level as the OC. There's so many different hands on techniques that it can cover a lot.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex We differ from you with a knife. Studies have shown that a perp with a knife can close a 30 foot gap faster than you can draw your gun and accurately shoot. Anything within 50 feet and our guns are already out. Same rules apply to blunt objects like bats or golf clubs. A gun, well that's a given. If the guy even hints at acting in a threatening manner he'll be taken down.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@pogijensen - "a perp with a knife can close a 30 foot gap faster than you can draw your gun." My friend who was a police officer didn't say anything about closing a gap, however he said that a knife for some perps can be thrown quicker and more accurately than anticipated.
I agree, I have no problem with officers using extreme force on people who have any weapon, even a pencil. Extreme force is necessary, the question is, was this force necessary with the woman? This is where we disagree.
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex Once someone has gone hands on with the police the cops will immediately go to the ladder of force. If they're pushed, they will use hands on strikes. That includes punches, elbows, knees, take downs, arm bars, etc.... Everything hands on is now on the table along with OC spray and the taser if the cop has it. All of these tools are authorized at this point. If a suspect so much as double up his fist, it's immediately time for the ASP baton! They stress this very hard in training!
pogijensen 7 months ago
@pogijensen - "If a suspect so much as double up his fist, it's immediately time for the ASP baton! They stress this very hard in training!" I don't have any problem with this type of scenario you speak of.
As mentioned earlier, there are too many restrictions on police officers, unfortunately because of bad cops. I think, if officers are going into a gang house, all rules are off, and they should be able to use any means to take them down. Fear is proper for certain objectives. Not all.
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex The police will NOT have a boxing match with you. They'll tear you a new one until you comply with orders and/or stop resisting. They'll always go a level higher to end the scenario as quickly as possible.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@pogijensen - "The police will NOT have a boxing match with you." I don't think they should, however they should judge a situation properly.
There are also studies completed showing when a group of people are excited it is hard to stop before it is too late, and things are no longer in their control (so to speak), they continue to react instead of acting soundly in a situation.
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex The police are instructed to use their tools at the appropriate times according to this force spectrum. They're not trying to be nice or politically correct. They don't care about your feelings. Hands on abuse from the public is NOT tolerated at any level and is swiftly dealt with. I watched a guy take a Rodney King style beating with the batons cause he wouldn't put down a bottle he threatened a cop with. The cops are not here to play a game with people.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@pogijensen - "I watched a guy take a Rodney King style beating..." I have no problem with this because he "threatened a cop." At the same time, those batons are thick steel, and did it really take a Rodney King beating to subdue him? Really?
I watched a guy get tazed on youtube who was drunk and in the middle of the street. He took a swing at the officer. This guy was 6'5" or so and thick. The officer tazed him. He should have tazed him on his butt cheeks since his pants were sagging.
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex Like I said before, the rules the police go by are vastly different than yours. I'm surprised, actually shocked, they limit you so much. That's a safety issue for you. If somebody is hands on with you and you walk away, think about what message that sends to the perp!! It undermines whatever authority you may have had and emboldens these pricks to challenge you with even more violent attacks. Now that is a slippery slope for you. A very dangerous slope to be on.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@pogijensen - To make myself clear. I am not at all against extreme force for officers if the situation calls for it. I think if officers are going into a place of a known murderer guns should be drawn. If they see him/her with a gun in hand. This guy should only have one warning. If he doesn't comply, put him down.
On the other hand, if a situation doesn't call for extreme force, then officers should use proper judgment and use what is necessary to handle the situation.
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex Ok, you lost me. It sounds like you agree with everything I said, yet you have a problem with a cop punching a lady who has just swung 3 full power punches at the cop. Do you or don't you agree this ape needed to be knocked out by the cop? I think she fully deserved a hard punch for attacking the cop that way. That was a closed fist punch. Technically, the cop could have used his baton but I don't think he even had enough time to pull it out.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex As for the Rodney King style beating on the guy with the bottle; the guy wouldn't drop the bottle or stay down. It really reminded me of Rodney King cause that prick wouldn't stay down either and wouldn't stop resisting. The cops only got into trouble on King cause they kept kicking him AFTER he finally gave up and stopped resisting.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex So this ape lady was completely ignored while she was being incredibly obnoxious, holding the camera in the cops face and literally getting in the way. The cop ignores all that. He didn't try to slap her away until she physically pushed him. Again, technically he could have closed fist punched her right there for pushing him away from the girl he was trying to arrest, aiding in the escape of an arrestee.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex He gave her more of a warning slap saying "I'm very serious about you not interfering with my work and you'll be in trouble if you don't go away". That lady knew she was obstructing the cop. Did she think this was a joke? Why would you push a cop away from the the person he's arresting and think that cop won't strike back?? Now the cop is dealing with 2 combative woman simultaneously. He already couldn't get cuffs on the first lady without hurting her, he was really trying too.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex These videos don't show it but the black lady he was trying to arrest had already punched him once and he was still being nice enough to only try to grab her arms to put cuffs on her. She could have caught a fist too, and probably should have. This cop was being more than patient with these girls but it hit a point where enough was enough and he had to get serious and let these idiot women know he was serious. I don't care who you are, you can't detain 2 combative people at once.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex The investigation into this lasted about 10 days, compared to the usual 3 months to 1 year it usually takes an investigation. Meaning it was a very open and closed case. The cop was completely cleared of any wrong doing. He followed his training perfectly and acted well within the trained and authorized levels of force. The only reason there was even an investigation was because it was protocol after a use of force incident.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex I'm not sure you know everything that happened before the cameras were turned on. Maybe this will shift your paradigm a little......
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex Let’s start off in the beginning so we’re on the same page. The Officer has to have a permit, granted from the city to work extra jobs. The reason being, when an Officer is working an extra job, he has all the same authority as if he/she were at work on a regular shift. This Officer at IHOP was working an extra job for IHOP.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex IHOP needs Officers at the location due to the high number of drunks that go there to eat after the clubs close down for the night. So the night of this incident, IHOP was FILLED to capacity with mostly drunk people. The management at IHOP gave specific instructions to the Officer that any behavior over the top would warrant him to act in behalf of IHOP and warn the person(s) to behave and/or ask them to leave. Such behavior as yelling, foul/vulgar language, fighting, etc…
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex If a person is asked to leave and they refuse, they can be charged with Criminal Trespass and arrested. IHOP is private property and they can refuse service to anyone they please. GA Code 16-7-21, subsection B3. If an Officer is speaking in behalf of the restaurant, then he can ask you to leave, or physically remove you.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex The night of this incident, you have a restaurant full of people who are drunk or have been drinking (the overwhelming majority), you have the cop who was hired to work security in his full police powers in case something happens or in case someone needs to be removed from the restaurant. Now that we know that, we can continue.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex Some guys come into the restaurant dressed in Star Wars costumes. The women in the booth next to them were making fun of them and making fun of their costumes. This apparently progresses to the point the girls were screaming, well over the volume of an already noisy crowd. While they were screaming, they were swearing and being vulgar. The Officer, who was already there cause he’s working there, can obviously can see and hear this.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex The Officer approached the women and asked them to please quiet down and not to use foul or vulgar language in the restaurant. The women refused and immediately challenged the Officer telling him he “has no right to tell them what to do”. The Officer tells them again to quiet down, again the women refuse.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex The Officer then tells the women they need to leave the restaurant. Again this is met with a challenge. They tell the Officer that he’s “not the real police” and that they’re “going to call the real police”. Note; the Officer was in full uniform. The Officer told them he is “the real police”. One woman stated that she was a criminal justice major and she “knew her rights” and that the cop couldn’t “do anything” to them. The Officer tells them to leave at least 2 or 3 times.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex After multiple warnings, after the cop identified himself as the “real police” (which he didn’t have to do), the Officer finally tells them they’re under arrest for Criminal Trespass and proceeds in attempting to hand cuff the fist girl. The girl immediately starts resisting the arrest, punching the Officer then sliding back as far as she can and moving her arms around so the cop can’t get hand cuffs on her. The cop grabs her shoulder in an attempt to pull her forward.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex While this is happening, another lady in a black dress, (who by the way does NOT know the women in the booth), comes over and is holding a camera phone in the cop’s face. The cop simply ignores this and continues with what he’s doing. This lady then decides she’s going to PHYSICALLY PUSH the Officer away from the girl! There's already a misdemeanor obstruction charge which is an arrestable offence.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex The cop gives this lady a quick hand check, causing her absolutely no harm, but letting her know he’s more than serious and that she needs to BACK OFF!! This lady goes into ape mode and starts swinging and punching wildly, connecting punches to the Officer. The Officer struck back with a single punch. Now that the Officer’s attention has been forced to this lady instead of his original suspect, he takes her down and places her in cuffs.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex The original girl the Officer was trying to arrest thinks she’s slick and goes for a quick get-away running out of the restaurant. She was shortly thereafter caught hiding in the back seat of a car while the car was trying to leave the parking lot. She got additional charges for Fleeing and Eluding.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex Put yourself in the Officer’s shoes at this point. You’re trying to arrest someone in the midst of hundreds of drunk people with several people shouting all around you. The lady you’re trying to arrest is resisting in every manner and has even punched you! You have a camera being held IN YOUR FACE. Now you have someone PHYSICALLY PUSHING YOU away from the person you’re trying to arrest! You’ve now been forced to go hands on with two combative people simultaneously, not by your choice!
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex You know from training that anybody in this crowd poses a growing lethal threat to your life, men and women. Every table has been given forks and knives and no matter how skilled you are, you CANNOT watch everybody’s hands at once, and STILL focus on the person you’re arresting. This scenario has to end NOW or you may not live through it.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex Under all the circumstances there this lady is way lucky she only got punched once. If I were there I probably would have been using elbows to go for a one hit knock out so I wouldn't have to deal with 2 people at once. Since the second cop did get there right before everything exploded maybe an elbow wouldn't be needed. However, the fist girl still nearly escaped!!! The only reason she was caught was because this cop called for help and more than one Officer came to the scene.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex The cop gave these ladies a chance to be decent and finish their meals. They wouldn't do that. He gave them more than one chance to leave, they wouldn't do that either. He had no choice but to arrest them at that point. Everybody in the restaurant could see this. Several witness statements were given and all of them supported the cop saying was very patient before the fireworks started going off. The girls escalated this out of control, not the cop.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex I'm sure with a scene like this, people will start pulling out there cameras. Which they did. Yet this stupid ape still thought it was somehow ok to push the cop away from the girl he was trying to arrest. Ya, the cop slapped her away. Like I said before, she's lucky she didn't catch a fist the first time! In truth, the second cop should have yanked that stupid ape out of that booth and slammed her on the ground before the first guy even had a chance to punch her.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@pogijensen - "In truth, the second cop should have yanked that stupid ape out of that booth and slammed..." Agreed.
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex I'm sure the second cop had his attention on the first girl and things just didn't register fast enough to realize this ape turned into a major threat. You can actually see the light bulb turn on as he starts grabbing her and pulling her away. It was too late at that point.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex Watch some of the other view points of this as well. Search "Atlanta Police IHOP". On that page you'll have a few good videos to watch that show different view points. Watch: "Police Brutality" and "Boba Fett from IHOP talks".
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex A non-related video, but still a good example of this same situation is; "Cop punches girl in face: Police Brutality in Seattle?". This cop was also very quickly cleared for punching this girl after she pushed him trying to let her friend escape. This video also stirred up a lot of feeling from the public, both for and against the cop. The cop was cleared because even on the other side of the country, the use of force principles for the police are the same.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@pogijensen - "Cop punches girl in face: Police Brutality in Seattle?" I watched this, and I am not sure this was even necessary. Honestly I am borderline. Here is my concern, whether or not it can be justified under a cops authority, the question still exists. What is necessary, or excessive?
My concern is one day a cop is going to take action like this, and the civilians in the area, will join in. It won't be civilians taking pictures or videos. They will hammer the cop.
anddenex 7 months ago
Part 2 - Each and every citizen has the a right given by our constitution to defend against tyranny. If enough of a population decides (whether within guidelines or not) an officer used excessive force, and the population has had enough of it.
You won't just see the girl push. I fear we will eventually see, people putting down cameras and the officer will have to face not only the person being arrested, but everybody else. Then he/she is in trouble.
anddenex 7 months ago
Part 3 - Cops, still need to use caution, within their guidelines. If you notice in the Seattle picture there are I believe a couple male civilians who it appeared were ready to pounce in if the situation escalated further.
If the courts continue to allow, what a majority of the population interprets as tyranny, or excessive abuse. They won't wait for the courts anymore to handle an issue. So they will handle it themselves. Even if it wasn't tyranny.
anddenex 7 months ago
Part 4 - Cops need to be vigilant, and civilians need to be understanding and respectful. As I said, I fear, we are heading into an era where if the civilians feel threatened enough, and the courts do nothing about it, it won't matter anymore. All bets will be off.
And if you think cops jobs are difficult and dangerous now...well...this will be a walk in the park compared to what it may become.
The fault will be on both sides. This is my concern.
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex If multiple people attack a cop at once the cop could then use lethal force. Being there's no way he can fight everybody off and he would be at that point of great bodily harm or death if a greater force is not used. Until the courts say otherwise, the police will continue doing what they're doing. People just need to understand that the cops will not show them respect if they're physically pushing and assaulting the them! It's not like these guys are just out of control.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@pogijensen - "If multiple people attack a cop at once the cop could then use lethal force." And even more the reason I am concerned, not only for the officer but for the civilians and the catalyst this type of confrontation will start.
I am not saying it will, I am saying in our world, I don't naively think anymore that people will be good and make good choices. This includes officers and civilians.
I agree, if an officer's life is threatened the rules of engagement change.
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex They're only acting with force when force has been shown to them or to a civilian. The REAL problem is how the media continues to spin these stories. Nobody ever hears anything other than how bad the cop was, even when the cop's in the right! If the media would tell the whole story people would understand why the cops did what they did.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@pogijensen - "They're only acting with force when force has been shown to them or to a civilian." I would agree to a point, a good number of officers do "only" act with force when force is shown, however unfortunately this isn't true for all cops.
Media actually does spin many outcomes in a different light. I remember the 8 year old who was sprayed. A media channel I was listening to was using the logical fallacy of an appeal to pity. However, I believe both sides need to be objective.
anddenex 7 months ago
@pogijensen - I would interested in hearing your take with regard to the homeless man who was killed by police officers, Kelly Thomas.
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex I've been away for a few days so sorry for the late response. -- I can't find any videos clearly showing anything so all I can go on is news reports. Sadly, again, the media will always put a negative twist on things so it's hard to get the "real" story.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex From what I can gather this was a mentally ill homeless man who had become violent because he was off his meds. The police tried to stop him in connection to car break ins. How much info they had is unknown but even if this man was only "suspicious" they can at least detain him to get more info during an investigation. When the police approached him and he took off running, well, that's not exactly helping his case any. Police are trained to watch for several signs that indicate guilt.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex So far in this situation everything sounds very legit. It turns ugly when the cops chase him down and catch him. From what I'm gathering it was a very ugly fight. The media is saying he was beaten and I'm "assuming" it was with the batons. That was fine, the police can do that UNTIL THE PERSON STOPS RESISTING! It sounds a lot like Rodney King at this point.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex Here's what the general public doesn't know and what the media so kindly leaves out. People who are mentally ill and/or on drugs don't register pain the same way, if at all, and their mind won't be right. You can beat someone to death who's high on crack or meth and they'll never feel it. It makes the cops job incredibly hard cause these people are like super humans with no brain. A very dangerous combo.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@pogijensen - "People who are mentally ill and/or on drugs don't register pain the same way, if at all..." I have never heard this regarding mentally ill, however drugs is for sure.
My friend I told you about who is an officer explained how one of his fellow officers stopped a guy on meth. He partner unloaded a full round of 9mm slugs into this guy, and the guy was still able to reach the officer with an hatchet. Before another half round dropped him. I think a total of 15 shots or more.
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex Look up the "21FT rule". You don't have to be on drugs to be able to attack someone while being shot.
ubcs109 7 months ago
@ubcs109 Who are the ignorant and ugly black boys? The cops should stomp those black males because those black males are always dangerous.
ZeroMaiden00 6 months ago
@anddenex I am sure you are mentally ill.
ZeroMaiden00 6 months ago
@ZeroMaiden00 - "I am sure you are mentally ill." LOL, great ad hominem. Instead of actually responding to my comments you insult. The "zero" in your subscriber name describes your comment to the "T".
Without point and without substance.
anddenex 6 months ago
@anddenex The fight with Kelly Thomas sounds like it was that kind of fight. Two officers were badly hurt; one with a broken arm and another with broken ribs. So to say there were too many people.....nonsense. To say the force level was too high.....nonsense. Obviously this guy wasn't going down easily or without a fight. Even after multiple taserings he still wasn't stopping. Now I don't know much of anything about tasers as my department won't issue them so I've never been around them.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex Without being there I can only make guesses as to what happened. Police are trained to aim for "center mass" with the batons. That includes the torso, arms and legs. Absolutely no head shots with the baton!!! However, hitting a stationary target is easy to do, hitting a moving target is a complete different ball game. I've watched officers more than once take a swing at someone and that person will simultaneously duck. I don't know why people do that, maybe it's a defense mechanism.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@pogijensen - "I've watched officers more than once take a swing at someone and that person will simultaneously duck."
Just my opinion, I think this reaction is due to the likelihood of being in a fight. Most fighters won't go for your torso, they will go for head shots.
Sorda like dodge ball, when you throw at the torso, and yet the person is instinctively ducking and then gets clocked. Did that to my son today playing dodge ball.
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex When people reach a certain level of fear and/or pain, their bodies will instinctively go into the fetal position. So maybe this has something to do with it. Just a guess, I'm not a scientist. But you can see the dilemma, if I'm aiming at your torso and you duck, what am I now hitting....your head. The only time head shots are allowable is when the situation calls for deadly force and for some reason you can't get to your gun. At that point, anything is justifiable.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex At this point, I'm going to withhold judgement until there's more info. This could be a horrible accident or it could be a jackass cop hitting the guy in the head when he shouldn't have. From what I'm hearing so far, everything was good except the head shots IF those shots were from a baton. The cops are authorized to punch the face and head during a fight. So there's really not a lot to go on yet.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@pogijensen - "At this point, I'm going to withhold judgement until there's more info..." Same, the video's I watched didn't show enough detail to come to any sober conclusion.
I kinda figured, either you were or are an officer of some sort and wanted to ask if you had heard anything.
anddenex 7 months ago
@pogijensen LOL! Giving your opinion when you are a sicko!
ZeroMaiden00 6 months ago
@anddenex If you push a cop, he can and probably will hit you. It's the same all over the country. Always one level of force higher than what's being shown to the cop. If it's only a verbal dispute the cop will try the verbal judo approach trying to deescalate the situation. Once you go hands on with the cop, it's a different game. Police train for countless hours in the academy and then on a regular basis afterwards with "what if" scenarios.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex I guess it comes down to this; whether you agree or not, this cop acted according to his training and within the guidelines of what he was authorized to do.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex I have no idea what the procedures are for detention facilities but I'm intimately aware of what police can and cannot do. The tools they're given and the authorized force levels they use are there for the officer's safety. Again, it doesn't make any sense at all that this cop would try to pull the first cop away from the person he was arresting. They don't have tasers, mace would clear out the entire restaurant, nobody was using the baton, it was simply hands on. No infractions at all
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex When a person resists arrest, the cops are authorized to use physical force in order to get those hand cuffs on you. They'll even pick you up and slam you into the ground as a way to stun a person long enough to give the cop an upper hand, element of surprise if you will, to get those hand cuffs on. For you to be correct in your argument, there would have to be something more going on that would "shock the conscious" of the second officer.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex If he arrived and saw this man pounding the blood out of her, he would probably have his eye brows up thinking "what the hell is going on?" If then, he saw her fighting he would jump in the fight. If she was being submissive he should try to restrain and/or calm the first officer. This girl was not following commands and not being submissive. At any point in the video this is evident. Sorry buddy, there's just no logic in your argument; especially if you understand how cops work.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex If ANYTHING AT ALL, the second cop was saying "let me get in there and get her" thinking he could pull her out faster. There really wasn't room for two people in that same spot. I have no idea where you live or if you've eaten at this particular IHOP. I've eaten there several times and those booths are small, very small. It's physically impossible to fit to grown men side by side in that booth sideways where they could both have their hands on that girl.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex Only one of them could reach her at a time, unless the second officer pushing that dumb ape out of the way and tried pulling the lady over the table.
pogijensen 7 months ago
@anddenex You can't fault a cop for remember everything that happened on your traffic stop. For you, you remember every detail. This was a major event that will stay in your memory. For the cop, you were one of many stops just that day. By the time he saw you in court he had stopped literally hundreds of people. He probably didn't even really recognize who you were!
pogijensen 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@pogijensen -"You can't fault a cop for remember everything that happened on your traffic stop." Yes, I can especially when it cost me $100.00. If he couldn't remember everything then he should have responded, "I don't remember." However, his first response was "yes", and it wasn't until the lawyer prodded him then he changed his answer to, "I mean, No."
anddenex 7 months ago
@anddenex In fact, someone thought they'd get smart with the courts and try this on them. This guy had his son stand in for him at court. When the lawyer asked if the man at the podium was the driver, the cop said "yes". Later the man admitted he was not the driver and the traffic case was thrown out. They won!! Well, not really. They were both locked up for lying under oath and false representation to the court. They would have been better off with the traffic ticket.
pogijensen 7 months ago