why didnt they just say that the people they were torturing said it? that way they didnt even have to torture them or anything...doesnt make any sense
and heres a response to your torture tactics..........dont f***** do it..........you americans are a brutal culture. torture one man and u create many enemies. so continue as u wish but u are spreading the name of your country to the wrong people thats all that happening
people who have the will to stand up to a global bully.
i am disgusted at the american populous for supporting the things u do
and for calling countries "enemies" you are doing nothing but creating more enemies
america will come into hard times and nobody is goin to want to back you up including us canadians
i would never fight for yore sham of a cause its disgustig the wool is pulled over your eyes it is not a war on terrorism its a war on freedom of other nations
they hate u because your country's officials and government policies as well as foreign relations are horrible. the Bush's fucked your country up. your country acts like the bully of the planet trying to police everything. just because something isnt illegal in your country doesnt mean u need to change it ...........america needs to respect other countries and how they run them , they need to stop sticking their noses in other country' business
Well thats the dumbest thing ive herd all day. more americans lives are going to be lost by using these techniques, not saved. Do you have any idea how much contempt this is going to cause? This is againts internation law aswell.
international law? who decides that? American lives have already been saved by interrogation of terrorists and other enemies of the US. That has been documented. Torture is subject to interpretation no matter what anybody says. I am of the opinion that mind games (which waterboarding is) are fair game unless they actually drown the person. And naked pictures of prisoners.... give me a f'ing break that is torture???????? as compared to the techniques used by our enemies over the years???
Research blow back, which the CIA preaches. USA and sadly by association, other western democracies are today more likely to be attacked because of torture on suspected enemies. And as for waterboarding not being torture, check what Jesse Ventura says. He was waterboarded and knows it for what it is.
Adolf histler once said kill a bitch once a man is revealed for a day, teach a man to kill a bitch and buy him an unmarked gun, he is revealed for a life time
torture works.... That's undisputable. Torture can not be used to get reliable confessions, but, logically CAN be used to get data to be verified later, like names and locations of people. If ur talking about facts... THAT'S a fact.
It is also undisputable that torture does not work. There have been documented statements that a majority of the time a person is being tortured or waterboarded, they have given false leads. Either way if it does or doesn't work, we are suppose to set the example and follow international law.
24 hours later 30 poems done and all in Arabic or Urdu and handed away.
Nations Egypt,Syria,Israel,Jordan,UAE, Libya,Yemen,United Kingdom,France, Spain, Greece, Turkey,Serbia,China,Japan, Korea & others in Central America & theCarribean.
Obama please give up, You are such a loser to think I would stop.
35 black kids killed & you don't give a shit for them.
Oh by the way OBAMA a tabloid has printed about you being GAY. I saw the tabloid on Ninth Ave 45th Street.
The terrorists hate america. If we continue these types of methods of pursuit i.e. torture, wars with the wrong countries, we become the assholes they think we are. We have to pursue our enemies with a sence of love and respect, I know that's a hard statement to take, but we must get to the bottom of why our enemies hate us, only then will they stop being our enemies.
TMundo They don't hate America or Americans. They don't care what we do in our own homes on our own time. They hate US Foreign Policy in the MidEast, they consider us beyond intrusive, they consider us terrorists and traitors in their territory. Wouldn't we feel that way if they intruded in our country? That is why they did 9/11 , to give us just a taste of our own medicine that we dish out.
if they wanted to strike out at those who terrorize the arab nations, they would have hit Tel Aviv.
I suspect neocon/Mossas false flag op. The day we were hit, the US public was inundated with Israeli spokesmen on TV and the constant refrain that we now know how the Israelis feel. Netanyahu slipped up and siad straight up that 911 was good for Israel.
oldjoe5 I do understand what you mean by who benefits, but terrorists had lives before they died on their suicide mission, & they have been traced back in detail, have been traced from various countries to FL Embry Riddle flight school, traced their passports, traced their money trail, & unfortunately traced them to the 4 death flights. I seriously doubt neocons or Zionists would do a suicide mission. Al Qaeda is clearly dedicated to die for their cause, & they know US funds Israel
It seems to me that we were being given the name OBL less than 24 hours after the attacks and being shown pictures of arabs at Logan airport alleged to be taken on 911 no later than 9/12/01. Is my memory off? That all struck me as very suspicious -- the attack succeeded due to the element of surprise, yet the govt and media had all these facts within hours of the attacks. How was that possible?
oldjoe5 They had a flight manifest. They could match their fake names /real names to their photo IDs , & witnesses/neighbors/classmates knew what they looked like & where the terrorists were living in FL for long time before, & they attended Embry Riddle flight school. Many witnesses saw them also in airport that day & boarding flights. What made 9/11 families angry is that the FBI and CIA and INS were not communicating beforehand (see Able Danger hearings), due partly to Posse Comitatus Act
And the govt, who knew nothing about this coming attack, not only this all together in less than 24 hours, but handed this info to the media in that same time frame, with not thought of their usual secrecy with claims of national security?
Less than 24 hours -- we got the stories and saw the photos.
oldjoe5 I agree they most likely knew stuff, I just don't buy into the "inside job truther 9/11" crowd... someone said it better than me "the fake first moon landing" crowd
If they knew -- and it seems either they knew or they made up the story about OBL -- then it was an inside job. Either they (the govt insiders) were involved or, more likely, they knew a lot but did nothing to stop it.
The one conspiracy theory I don't buy at all is the official one we were fed
oldjoe5 Michael Moore already proved they knew on his movie Fahrenheit 9/11, and I think they grabbed the moment and ran with it. After all they had wanted to illegally invade Iraq since 1996, they just needed the funds, and the votes for them.
Yep. The Israeli loyalist neocons had been pressing for an invasion of Iraq since 1996, if not earlier. They put it in writing in 1996's "A Clean Break". This would be just the 1st of many actions they had planned for the US -- all in the furtherance of an Israeli agenda.
1st -- removal of Saddam. Next -- an attack on Iran. Then Syria. Eventually, use the US military to roll up the entired middle east for Israel's perceived benefit
@TMundo how is that a harsh statement? we need to confront our enemies with love and respect yet authority. the american public needs to wake up and smell the cowshit. our government is in about 30-40 years worth of trouble and lies. they have been snowballing the effect that has built up to todays problem. While most of you fuckheads are our watching jersey shore perhaps you should think about arming yourselves, getting a gasmask, stocking up on food or finding a way to plant your own food, etc
@Justanotherstylee I meant it's hard for people to consider offering an enemy love. That if you actually caught a real terrorist, you might see what happens if you show him love as opposed to a beating, which is what he's expecting because his teachers have taught him that we are the scum of the earth, if we prove to him we're not, we have gained a brother.
Uhhh what abortion doctors do before fetuses are killed & thrown in dumpsters is torture --- pouring water on enemy combatants picked up on the battlefield in the Global War On Terror is NOT.
You might not think waterboarding, wall slamming, sleep deprivation, etc. is not torture, but Eric Holder, our Attorney General does, so your opinion really doesn't matter. Valuable information? Prove it to me.
If it's not torture, why did we execute Japanese soldiers and officers who waterboarded our own soldiers after WW2? We treated waterboarding as torture when it happened to our guys. We took it dead serious. Waterboarding is an old torture technique, it's been documented as such. Don't change history because it doesn't fit what you want.
Whether you, president obama, or anyone else wants to admit it or not, we are in the midst of a war on terror. the islamists will stop at NOTHING until the US and israel are defeated.
unfortunately they use the most ruthless tactics in their battle against us. ie blowing up the twin towers and murdering thousands of people.
these terrorists DESERVE waterboarding and possibly more if there's even the slightest chance we can extract valuable information from them in the process.
these people hate us, we don't know why, we must prove to them & the rest of the world, that we are NOT the assholes they think we are. If we torture them, then we basically become the assholes they think us to be. Where exactly did Iraq fall, in this war on terror you're talking about? We invaded a 2nd country, before we were done with the 1st one we invaded. More radicals joined the terrorist cause as a result of all this. Is that what you want? To inflame others to become terrorists?
if our troops convertly entered a foreign country, hijacked 4 planes and few them into that country's buildings killing thousands of people
and then this foreign country was able to round up members of the group that planned the attack then i would expect them to receive worse than waterboarding.
"rules of war" are a joke. they were not meant for terrorist activity when they were written.
Why is it stupid? You obviously approve of torturing prisoners. Why wouldn't another country do the same? If water boarding is something we do only to terrorist who fly jetliners into buildings, then its punishment, not a means to interrogate.
The excuse that is used for using this tactic is that the information that is produced will save lives. Well, any army can claim the same when torturing foreign troops.
In any case, it is illegal to torture ANYONE. That includes suspected terrorists.
There's a difference between waterboarding the leaders and decisionmakers like khalid sheikh mohammad and some order-taking terrorists. why don't you people get his.
KSM is one of the leaders of al qaeda who masterminded the 9/11 attacks. he deserves waterboarding for both intelligence gathering, and if torture is a by-product that will help save american lives then so be it.
you're just another leftist liberal panzy. you people are self-hating angry people.
One of the things that immediately struck me was remembering what convicted soldiers said about what they did. They did things because CONTRACTORS told them to do those things. If you've had the displeasure of meeting Eric Prince the CEO of Blackwater, then you should expect anything. Eric Prince almost got his ass beaten in a bar many years ago. I regret that I didn't cause permanent head injuries at that opportunity.
Have you monitored what Blackwater is doing in Calif. and private industry? Still getting away with operating, and changed their name to Xe. There was a big uproar and petition effort to stop them in CA but it failed as I recall.
peace is patriotic, what a great handle!! It certainly is patriotic.
It's been about a year since I kept up with this, they were trying 2set up something near the border as I recall,probably something 2do w/border issues but I can't remember 4sure. I know Rachel Maddow covered this recently--as 2the name change, pron. "ZEE". I signed sev. petitions at a Calif. website, but as I changed ISP I've lost all my data stored on it. Try 2google blackwater Calif.&see if you can get more info!
If waterboarding works so well, why didn't Bush have Saddam waterboarded to find out where he hid his alleged WMDs?
If waterboarding works so well, why did they only waterboard 3 of the thousands of "terrorists" they detained? How did they know none of the others had crucial info on OBL or new attacks?
touche' !! I doubt that they're being truthful though when they say they only did it to 3 detainees. Since when does the truth work for them??!! Sooner or late they'll find out how the lies will work against them. NO integrity whatsoever, gld they are out of office and will be glad when they shut up and crawl under something.
Speaking for myself, I'd betray everything and anything if waterboarded. I'd be singing like a canery. It works as does other means of torture.
Trust me. I can make anybody tell me anything, then thank me for putting them out of their misery. And if some animal knew about an attack that would kill Americans, he either sing or die in agony.
And that's most of voting America. Be careful about throwing our party under the bus.
You do realize how ridiculous it is to think that out of all the thousands of terrorists we've detained, none had any useful information about AQ/forthcoming attacks - or they sang without the need for torture - don't you?
BTW, "our party" - you assume wrong. I'm not a Dem, I'm an independent who has voted Dem for nearly 20 years. They keep following the Repubs and moving away from me. At some point it's time to say buh-bye.
Until the Dems fix this with prosecutions, I'll throw them under the bus for it whenever I like.
I've been hearing that for years. It's the Dems' version of "9/11! 9/11!", using "fear of the alternative" to manipulate people to vote a certain way instead of voting one's conscience. No, thanks. If the Dems want to emulate and pardon the Repubs then they can do it without me next time.
I agree with you ismeme! I have been a life long Democrat, but if this administration doesn't bring bush and/or cheney down on the torture issue, I will sadly never vote again. A Republican would never receive my vote because they are saying that we should even go after anyone that tortures. They say they are all about the Constitution and laws, but want to sweep it under the table if it means their party is prosecuted. Shame, shame!
The CIA didn't even need to torture, all they had to do was turn the terrorists over to one of our not so nice allies who have no qualms about torture. But instead Cheney just had to get the US directly involved. What a fool.
Maybe instead of prosecuting the Bushies, we should just allow those they harmed the most to deal with them. What's good for the goose . . . !! Chances are Obama, Congress &our Att. Gen. might not have to do much of anything if certain factions get ahold of them first. You'd think Cheney would be cowering under a log somewhere, but he's still running his mouth, &will most certainly regret it when it all finally comes home 2roost, I'm sure of that. It's the nature of things in this universe.
that's the truth! Which tells you a lot about ulterior motives that were really behind the whole thing. Trying to look like big shots is the least of those motives. Money and power have much more to do with it, and if you're not familiar with the workings of the New World Order, there's plenty of vids here you should check out! They have agenda that have been ongoing since hundreds of years ago, at least.
Cheney and the rest of them are capitalistic and political prostitutes. They will have to answer to their Maker, and then they'll see how smart they are.
After 911, I did not have an issue with terrorists getting tortured. I would have done it personally just to hear them scream.
Then my anger calmed. While it's wrong to make torture policy, let's not get carried away with how evil we say it is. It's not like we don't kill over 3,000 unborn babies daily. Human life is cheap.
No it's not the end -- and you sound like you're happy about the devaluation of life, like it's that simple. Unborn babies are the least of our worris. This country has been overpopulated for half a century. that is the cause of virtually every problem human deal with.
the issue is not unborn babies. The issue is not getting pregnant in the first place. What have you done to assure this doesn't happen? Are you campaigning to help avoid these unwanted pregnancies?
No, I won't be campaigning for any damn thing. People need to take responsibility for themselves without me parading around like a fool. I have 5 kids all at the top of the food chain while most of pussy America grovels to see who gets to shine their shoes.
Please don't confuse my pointing out facts for an attitude of caring. I don't care. Kill babies, torture people, have casual sex, murder, steal, rape and do drugs.
The more losers in the world, the less competition for me and mine.
If not, you're part of the problem and a hypocrite to criticize others. Teach your sons to keep it in their pants or take responsibility when they don't. It's that simple. Stop sexualizing children and give your kids some real values and real guidance, instead of parroting the anti-choice movement. Address the CAUSES and not the SYMPTOMS of issues. Abortion is a symptom of a much deeper cause. It's all in the perspective and common sense.
LMFAO! You are anti-choice. What about those who "chose" to torture terorists? How about I turn your own words around. Consider: "'Torture' is a symptom of a much deeper cause". You see? I change one word, and POOF! Anyway, life is devalued with abortion, and that is why nobody gives a shit. And BTW, I am NOT pro-life or republican. But I know selective morality when I see it, so that makes it ALL POLITICAL. Who are you fooling?
Nothing will come of the torture issue. Remember, I toldYouSo.
You can twist the truth all Ulike, but TRUTH remains Truth, &you wouldn't know it if it bit you. UR either dense or a troll. UR trying to put issues into a generic statement: We need to address the CAUSES of problems, not put bandaids on the SYMPTOMS. So your turnaround of my words shows you only want to argue with a twisted mentality. You like death, Umust have been a member of the Bush admin. You're not the top of the food chain. Get in the swamp with nop weapons with a gator, you'll see.
I am a Democrat supporter of Obama, so Bush had no use for me. You wil find that in the end, Obama and all the key Democrats will stifle anything substantive on the torture issue. We'll throw some bones to the liberal activists, but nothing more.
Again, it's political suicide at a time when we are a hair away from the 60 vote senate majority. You think we're just going to hand Republicans our power just to make a point on torture when we already kill the unborn? FORGET IT!
If that's true then so be it. I stopped voting GOP almost two decades ago for similar reasons; the party lost its integrity. More and more people recognized that and now it's barely a national party.
If the Dems refuse to take advantage and distinguish themselves as the moral and ethical conscience of this country, then they're really no better than the right and don't deserve my vote.
Well that's pretty much politics as usual, but I have reason to believe Obama will surprise you on that one. Just wait and see!! He's very good at biding his time and making the right move at the right moment, so far anyway.
I'm not sure what your point is about choosing to torture terrorists. I certainly don't condone it. Anyway I already responded to this post, it came up fresh in my inbox again, so as a matter of courtesy I'll say this: As to you &yours, this country &its citizens ARE you &yours. We ARE our brothers' keepers.
What you begrudge others drives away abundance from yourself--spiritually, materially, etc. So don't cheat yourself by taking that arrogrant attitude that you're an island--nobody is/Peace
Think of the person you love the most, and imagine that individual in grave danger. You have in a cell a man with information that will save your loved one, but time is running out.
You know very well what you'd do. I would do likewise.
I just wouldn't trust that. If I were the one being tortured I'd most likely make up anything to stop the torture. And that's apparently been the case. But we agree to disagree, be blessed.
The alraedy shrinking republican party just lost one more.I seen today that Arlen Specto will be joining the democratic party. The latest polls say that just 21% of americans are willing to call themselves republicans. I guess all that will be left are a few extremeists and Fox news willing to follow Dick Cheney into hell!
The problem is you can't prove a negative. You can't say we used torture and got info that saved american lives because there is no way to tell if they were telling the truth.And it has come to light that the good intel was obtained brfore the waterboarding began back when the FBI was in charge. Also once you waterboard you can't go back and use other means to get intel. And as with KSM i'd say after the first 30 times he was waterboarded the rest were simply done to torture!
Or like Cenk suggested, to extract more false information. I'm not big on conspiracies but this one makes perfect sense to me. We all know Cheney was doctoring information on Iraq and we know these "confessions" were a big part of the rationale for war.
I find it difficult to say anything good about Cheney. I confess that I am completely biased towards him.
I firmly believe that he is a crook. He is a very arrogant person, and completely full of himself.
He could not care less about the suffering and loss of life in Iraq that came about because of him and the president he served. That said I am not sure he served anyone besides himself. I think he would do anything to reinforce his ego.
americans and jews also made the taliban and hussein, they gave them money and wappons for so many years, and after they didnt need them, they started fighting against them, the world is so fucked up, and the reason for it is america and israel
The majority know this. The neocon administration trained the taliban and gabe Hussein chemical weapons and buddied up to him. You are not saying anything I do not know. But to say that 95% support this shit is way off. Do not give them that much credit. The majority of us are pissed off that innocent lives have been taken. Stop listening to the neocons and talk to the majority.
There world just got alot smaller. Sen. Specter a republican. A big time republcian all theis years just switched party. He said his republican party is fowl. When are they just going to throw in the towel or just the freaks going to stay. They are going down!
Oh shit! You are right plumbweis, I forgot about that. That is exactly what they will do. They will get all their talking points going. This is where they start throwing shit around until something sticks. Hoping something sticks. I was in the car earlier and heard Rush goin at it already. Specter knows what is coming. He knows them from the inside out so I'm sure he will handle them fine. All the smart ones are leaving. LOL!!!
americans are worse than my country was 70 years ago! not even hitler managed to kill more innocent ppl, to spread more lies and propaganda than the americans and jews over the last year, thx for helping the taliban and hussein with money.
Americans are jews are u the scum of the world, without u, the world would be a better place, no1 is responsible for more wars since the second worldwar than the american bastards, i piss on you and your brainwashed dumb familie
You are just as ignorant as the small group of Cheney followers. You talk the same as the neocons. No different. They also like to call names and stereotype.
You can not talk to all of us like that. In that case the world would be a better place without your country. Is Cheney a monster? Yes. Is that my fault? No. You are talking a small group of neocons that are loyal to Cheney the majority want him locked away for good.
small group? probably 95% of the american public belives their lies. or why did they vote for bush twice?
america is the terrorist, together with the jews, do u know how many islamic countries got attacked by them before 9/11? do some research, but they made the whole world belive like muslims are the "terroists" while terrorism doesnt even excist, since when im a criminal when i attack back? how stupid can u be? btw, also our bitch merkel is helping u with the massmurdering
LOL!!!!! That is the funniest thing I have ever heard Manny! He ordered millions to be slaughtered to protect me. I should be grateful huh? Fuck Cheney! The only thing he wants to protect is his ass. He is a mass murderer! Why did that stupid fuck order those planes not be shot down when he was ahead of NORAD? And why was he ahead of NORAD when he knows nothing about NORAD? He will be exposed for the horrific pain he caused others that are innocent. He was 100xs worse than saddam.
Who is we? The very few little neocons in this country? Why is that always your awnser? Why don't you move to Iran since you believe in such horrific barbaric practices!
And Manny you must have been smoking something if you believe there were Alqieda before. We created them by killing killing killing. How would you feel if someone snatched you out of bed, and said we are looking for manny rodriguez but your name is ramirez that is close we are putting you in a secret prison and drowning you and torturing you, and we are going to kill your kids. Would you be angry? Would that suck? You neocons are a dying breed. Move over there's a new sherrif in town.
What about the soldiers who were left swinging in the wind (Aubugraib) by the Bush administraton? I have heard Cheney whine that poor Scooter didn't get pardoned(even as he never spent a day in jail) but never gave a shit about these guys who are still sitting in jail for following the orders he gave! Thy let these guys be prosecuted and never said a word in their defense even though they knew they were only following orders. And Why? To save their own asses! Sickening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheney needs to be prosecuted. The stain he has left on our country will take decades to recede. The death penalty is a far too lenient penalty for such an endlessly treacherous and evil man. How the right wing can still stand by Cheney in light of what he has done and call themselves patriots is a joke and a sham. These people are in deep, deep denial and are more partisan than American.
It's really hard for me to comprehend that he hasn't been prosecuted and why is there not more outrage? He did so many things that broke the law and it seems to be getting swept under the carpet. Where is justice for all those innocent people that have lost lives because of Cheney. They hung Saddam for the same things and there was an outrage. I think if all the truth comes our or I hope people will see the light. The torture and lie to go to war and outing CIA was enough for me.
And we'll find out how much they were told by the Bush Admin. If they knew waterboarding was involved and still okay'd it, then they should face the same consequences.
She did not know at the time it happened. She found out later that it had been ordered. And then she hadn't said anything. Which still pisses everyone off. She should have said something if she had any morality at all.
cheney is the 1st VP that requested & received from Congress civil service protection after leaving office. bush/cheney were so secretive it board-lined on paranoia. You might argue that it was for our military safety. I believed that at 1st. I can tell you that I absolutely DO NOT believe that now. How President Clinton got impeached, and bush/cheney did not is beyond my imagination! I know C-Span can be boring, but I would suggest everyone watch sub-committee meetings. Especially now. Wow!
Thank You phillipmarch22 for all your information. And there is alot more to learn. I believe the more this gets out and the more we learn we can get involved and stop this barbaric practice. And bring America back to the higher standing it once was. And we will.
If anyone on this site cares at all that the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS TORTURING CAPTIVES: Please read - "Truth, Torture, and the American Way", by Jennifer Harbury. Why did she write this book? Her husband was tortured for 3 years and then murdered. During that 3 years of torture he NEVER SAID A WORD. Not only is torture illegal, there are 3 layers of laws that ABSOLUTLY PROHIBIT TORTURE, leaving NO excuse whatsoever and under ANY circumstance that makes torture legal. Please get involved.
Real Simple. Check your politics at the door and DEMAND justice. Justice IS NOT a political issue! If the person that broke in to your house and stole your stuff, you wouldn't give a fuck if he was a Democrat or Republican.
Your absolutely right rodzmen. cheney has been hiding under his desk during the last 2-1/2 years of the bush administration, and all of the sudden he can't get enough camera time. It is called, "Cover Your Ass Time". What is happening is cheney destroyed the documents he is now requesting. He is evil, but he aint stupid!
To rodzmen1: I don't know if records were destroyed. If you remember the Attorney Gonzales scandel, (bush's 1st Attorney General), cheney was asked to disclose documents and bush made an executive order saying cheney did not have too. What I am very supicious about is that at the beginning of bush's term, cheney was very visible. During the last 2 years of the bush administration, cheney was GONE, under his desk, hidden! Con't
Come on! He was Georgie's boss. Everyone knows that. Look now. Do you see GWB coming out and saying shit? From day one we would all say Cheney is the mastermind. He even built his favorite company up in the process. Cheney is a madman and anyone to dispute that is sadly mistaken. Stay tuned to more in the news. We have just scratched the surface of what really has gone on. Cheney is alot more powerful than you will ever imagine.
dude, cheney didnt start anything he perpetuated it. whats happening is nothing new. read a book by noam chomsky or visit the bertrand russell archives. crist.
Who is Cenk talking about right here? You know Cheney ordered that torture. Cheney outed that CIA agent to. Cheney got the no-bid contracts for Haliburton
Bush needed evidence to link Saddam to Al Qaeda, and he used 'enhanced interrogation techniques' designed to produce lies in order to get it. What does this prove? It proves that Bush was not just incompetent, he was willfully & criminally incompetent.
Now we must wait & see if the Dept.of Justice will do its job. Prosecute the bastard and his gang of self-confessed criminals.
Worst administration in the history of the USA. Ever.
so, let's see. cheney knew torture didn't work to get good intelligence. the FBI knew it didn't work. the CIA knew it didn't work. the communist chinese and north koreans knew it worked to elicit LIES.
at THIS point, if you're still advocating torture to "keep us safe," you're THE FOOL who's screaming "hallelujah" in a church where the choir, the parishioners AND THE PREACHER know it's a SCAM.
and now that the information's out there, you're a fool who knows he's being fooled.
EVERYONE KNOWS THAT YOU CAN TORTURE ANYONE INTO SAYING ANYTHING! If i was being tortured I would admit to ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING ON THE FIRST BREATH! WAKE UP EVERYONE!
Exactly. This is sick. Cheney just signed off on torture just so he could finish off Sadaam. As a result, we hav lost 4200 soldiers. This is the worst thing. Oh man it makes me upset.
Our justice department is politicized. So this would never happen until her party is out of power. Looks like our government is going down the road of banana republics, where the party who loses power becomes political prisoners.
This is bad. And don't think the favor won't be returned to Obama's administration if it happens. Both parties are highly corrupt money mongers so it will happen.
BTW how do you feel about the war being expanded under Obama. And is killing worse than torture?
I thought that we were a civilize nation and we protect human rights around the world. If the US don't hold those accountable for the beatings//torture the US is nothing but hypocrites.
Personally, I don't care who knew what, Who ever controls the CIA is calling the shots.PERIOD
Those who call the shots and signed those torture document are the one's that violated the Geneva Convention, article 3 and those are the one's need to be held accountable. I"m a Liberal and I'm a huge Obama supporter. But, I don't care if a Republican or Democrat that signed those torture documents. They need to be held accountable. But I know that the GOP is just blowing smoke out their ass
Ok lets say Nancy Pelosi was on the committee, there's no way in the world that Bush and Cheney was going to listen to her. Bush and Cheney controlled the CIA, not Nancy Pelosi...PERIOD
Behind closed doors Bush and Cheney did their dirty work...PERIOD
Cheney and the GOP/conservatives are just trying to cover their ass and see which Democrat they can point the finger at..PERIOD
I call it MAYBE 1% of abortions and honestly, I don't mind conceding making late terms illegal (except in the case of the mother's health if course) if it would shut up the Catholics and Southerners and we could move on to discussing LIVING issues.
Oh, and nobody thinks abortion is "great" as you claim. We just think it is a crime to tell a woman that she has to carry a child when she doesn't wish to. It's her body and until that baby gets a nervous system it isn't even close to alive.
Here's an idea, why don't you stop worshiping a god that, in your imagination, sends unborn babies to hell.
Also, quick question Mr. Holier Than Though: Do babies that die due to miscarriages go to hell or does space daddy give them a "my bad" pass?
More importantly, the worst thing you can do is have a kid when you aren't financially and emotionally prepared to care for it. And while adoption might be an option for white babies, unfortunately the demand for other races (in America) is low.
Damning a kid to foster care is not "pro-life" in my mind. Nor is voting against SCHIP or universal health care.
ITS OFFICIAL!!! I now despise Barack Obama more than George W. Bush. He refuses to appoint a special prosecutor to punish Bush for his illegal WIRE TAPPING and TORTURING ways. Its becoming real clear that our government tortured detainees not for information but for forced confessions. This is the perfect way to purge out our most corrupt officials both Dem and Rep.There is no way Obama will ever get anything done with the gangster leadership we have now. Lets see if "BO" wants real change
This country is being turned into a true circus, how can anyone take this administration seriously. this crowd sets the highjump bar at two inches and believe its a major achievement if they clear the bar causing jubilation the likes never seen before. most productive 100 days, if bs is production they have set a standard that will never be broken.
Dick Cheney desreves to get tortured. Let's see how he feels about it after that. John McCain knew what it was like, and no aurprise he tried to get people to stop it (by the way, not a repub or John McCain supporter, just saying).
why didnt they just say that the people they were torturing said it? that way they didnt even have to torture them or anything...doesnt make any sense
darkinertia2 7 months ago
you americans need to open your eyes and see the world for what it really is
pelkman 1 year ago
and heres a response to your torture tactics..........dont f***** do it..........you americans are a brutal culture. torture one man and u create many enemies. so continue as u wish but u are spreading the name of your country to the wrong people thats all that happening
people who have the will to stand up to a global bully.
pelkman 1 year ago
i am disgusted at the american populous for supporting the things u do
and for calling countries "enemies" you are doing nothing but creating more enemies
america will come into hard times and nobody is goin to want to back you up including us canadians
i would never fight for yore sham of a cause its disgustig the wool is pulled over your eyes it is not a war on terrorism its a war on freedom of other nations
the americans wish for nothing other than control
pelkman 1 year ago
they hate u because your country's officials and government policies as well as foreign relations are horrible. the Bush's fucked your country up. your country acts like the bully of the planet trying to police everything. just because something isnt illegal in your country doesnt mean u need to change it ...........america needs to respect other countries and how they run them , they need to stop sticking their noses in other country' business
pelkman 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
ummm you have no idea that republicans know that iraq has nothing to do with 911
jeesh if one american life is protected by these techniques i am in favor
and you people have more compassion for the terrorists than american citizens
when you commit terrorism against anyone you have forfeited any human rights
BSS14285 2 years ago
Well thats the dumbest thing ive herd all day. more americans lives are going to be lost by using these techniques, not saved. Do you have any idea how much contempt this is going to cause? This is againts internation law aswell.
MetalManDan7 2 years ago
international law? who decides that? American lives have already been saved by interrogation of terrorists and other enemies of the US. That has been documented. Torture is subject to interpretation no matter what anybody says. I am of the opinion that mind games (which waterboarding is) are fair game unless they actually drown the person. And naked pictures of prisoners.... give me a f'ing break that is torture???????? as compared to the techniques used by our enemies over the years???
BSS14285 2 years ago
Research blow back, which the CIA preaches. USA and sadly by association, other western democracies are today more likely to be attacked because of torture on suspected enemies. And as for waterboarding not being torture, check what Jesse Ventura says. He was waterboarded and knows it for what it is.
benbig67 2 years ago
I remembered O'Reilly said, Torture works because Dick Cheny said so.
I was like, wow. Nice argument. I wonder if Cheny would ever say, torture doesn't work.
clemssss 2 years ago 6
Adolf histler once said kill a bitch once a man is revealed for a day, teach a man to kill a bitch and buy him an unmarked gun, he is revealed for a life time
Heil Mao I'm a commie
5spoonfest5 2 years ago
torture works.... That's undisputable. Torture can not be used to get reliable confessions, but, logically CAN be used to get data to be verified later, like names and locations of people. If ur talking about facts... THAT'S a fact.
bluband2 2 years ago
It is also undisputable that torture does not work. There have been documented statements that a majority of the time a person is being tortured or waterboarded, they have given false leads. Either way if it does or doesn't work, we are suppose to set the example and follow international law.
Ramel34 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
24 hours later 30 poems done and all in Arabic or Urdu and handed away.
Nations Egypt,Syria,Israel,Jordan,UAE, Libya,Yemen,United Kingdom,France, Spain, Greece, Turkey,Serbia,China,Japan, Korea & others in Central America & theCarribean.
Obama please give up, You are such a loser to think I would stop.
35 black kids killed & you don't give a shit for them.
Oh by the way OBAMA a tabloid has printed about you being GAY. I saw the tabloid on Ninth Ave 45th Street.
ALGOREFOREVER blogspot
GodLovesJeffFisher 2 years ago
Yes
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
The terrorists hate america. If we continue these types of methods of pursuit i.e. torture, wars with the wrong countries, we become the assholes they think we are. We have to pursue our enemies with a sence of love and respect, I know that's a hard statement to take, but we must get to the bottom of why our enemies hate us, only then will they stop being our enemies.
TMundo 2 years ago 6
TMundo They don't hate America or Americans. They don't care what we do in our own homes on our own time. They hate US Foreign Policy in the MidEast, they consider us beyond intrusive, they consider us terrorists and traitors in their territory. Wouldn't we feel that way if they intruded in our country? That is why they did 9/11 , to give us just a taste of our own medicine that we dish out.
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
I don't think the arabs really did do 911.
if they wanted to strike out at those who terrorize the arab nations, they would have hit Tel Aviv.
I suspect neocon/Mossas false flag op. The day we were hit, the US public was inundated with Israeli spokesmen on TV and the constant refrain that we now know how the Israelis feel. Netanyahu slipped up and siad straight up that 911 was good for Israel.
Who benefits?
oldjoe5 2 years ago
oldjoe5 I do understand what you mean by who benefits, but terrorists had lives before they died on their suicide mission, & they have been traced back in detail, have been traced from various countries to FL Embry Riddle flight school, traced their passports, traced their money trail, & unfortunately traced them to the 4 death flights. I seriously doubt neocons or Zionists would do a suicide mission. Al Qaeda is clearly dedicated to die for their cause, & they know US funds Israel
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
It seems to me that we were being given the name OBL less than 24 hours after the attacks and being shown pictures of arabs at Logan airport alleged to be taken on 911 no later than 9/12/01. Is my memory off? That all struck me as very suspicious -- the attack succeeded due to the element of surprise, yet the govt and media had all these facts within hours of the attacks. How was that possible?
oldjoe5 2 years ago
Would secretive terrorists on a suicide mission use their actual names and IDs to book the flights? Seems unlikely
oldjoe5 2 years ago
oldjoe5 They had a flight manifest. They could match their fake names /real names to their photo IDs , & witnesses/neighbors/classmates knew what they looked like & where the terrorists were living in FL for long time before, & they attended Embry Riddle flight school. Many witnesses saw them also in airport that day & boarding flights. What made 9/11 families angry is that the FBI and CIA and INS were not communicating beforehand (see Able Danger hearings), due partly to Posse Comitatus Act
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
And the govt, who knew nothing about this coming attack, not only this all together in less than 24 hours, but handed this info to the media in that same time frame, with not thought of their usual secrecy with claims of national security?
Less than 24 hours -- we got the stories and saw the photos.
No way
oldjoe5 2 years ago
oldjoe5 I agree they most likely knew stuff, I just don't buy into the "inside job truther 9/11" crowd... someone said it better than me "the fake first moon landing" crowd
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
If they knew -- and it seems either they knew or they made up the story about OBL -- then it was an inside job. Either they (the govt insiders) were involved or, more likely, they knew a lot but did nothing to stop it.
The one conspiracy theory I don't buy at all is the official one we were fed
oldjoe5 2 years ago
oldjoe5 Michael Moore already proved they knew on his movie Fahrenheit 9/11, and I think they grabbed the moment and ran with it. After all they had wanted to illegally invade Iraq since 1996, they just needed the funds, and the votes for them.
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
Yep. The Israeli loyalist neocons had been pressing for an invasion of Iraq since 1996, if not earlier. They put it in writing in 1996's "A Clean Break". This would be just the 1st of many actions they had planned for the US -- all in the furtherance of an Israeli agenda.
1st -- removal of Saddam. Next -- an attack on Iran. Then Syria. Eventually, use the US military to roll up the entired middle east for Israel's perceived benefit
oldjoe5 2 years ago
@TMundo how is that a harsh statement? we need to confront our enemies with love and respect yet authority. the american public needs to wake up and smell the cowshit. our government is in about 30-40 years worth of trouble and lies. they have been snowballing the effect that has built up to todays problem. While most of you fuckheads are our watching jersey shore perhaps you should think about arming yourselves, getting a gasmask, stocking up on food or finding a way to plant your own food, etc
Justanotherstylee 1 year ago
@Justanotherstylee I meant it's hard for people to consider offering an enemy love. That if you actually caught a real terrorist, you might see what happens if you show him love as opposed to a beating, which is what he's expecting because his teachers have taught him that we are the scum of the earth, if we prove to him we're not, we have gained a brother.
TMundo 1 year ago
@TMundo I agree. Well put mate!
Justanotherstylee 9 months ago
i went waterboarding last weekend in the ocean
Shane444888 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Uhhh what abortion doctors do before fetuses are killed & thrown in dumpsters is torture --- pouring water on enemy combatants picked up on the battlefield in the Global War On Terror is NOT.
ejj98765 2 years ago
#1 it's not torture
#2 how does this guy know what is an accurate definition of "torture"
#3 how does he know that we didn't receive valuable information
this guy is nothing but a leftist liberal puppet dooshbag
larrymyclown 2 years ago
You might not think waterboarding, wall slamming, sleep deprivation, etc. is not torture, but Eric Holder, our Attorney General does, so your opinion really doesn't matter. Valuable information? Prove it to me.
phillipmarch22 2 years ago 2
If it's not torture, why did we execute Japanese soldiers and officers who waterboarded our own soldiers after WW2? We treated waterboarding as torture when it happened to our guys. We took it dead serious. Waterboarding is an old torture technique, it's been documented as such. Don't change history because it doesn't fit what you want.
pokemanz 2 years ago 2
Whether you, president obama, or anyone else wants to admit it or not, we are in the midst of a war on terror. the islamists will stop at NOTHING until the US and israel are defeated.
unfortunately they use the most ruthless tactics in their battle against us. ie blowing up the twin towers and murdering thousands of people.
these terrorists DESERVE waterboarding and possibly more if there's even the slightest chance we can extract valuable information from them in the process.
larrymyclown 2 years ago
these people hate us, we don't know why, we must prove to them & the rest of the world, that we are NOT the assholes they think we are. If we torture them, then we basically become the assholes they think us to be. Where exactly did Iraq fall, in this war on terror you're talking about? We invaded a 2nd country, before we were done with the 1st one we invaded. More radicals joined the terrorist cause as a result of all this. Is that what you want? To inflame others to become terrorists?
TMundo 2 years ago
We don't know why they hate us?
oldjoe5 2 years ago
Lets give them israel, then.
oldjoe5 2 years ago
Water boarding is torture. Would you want our troops to be water boarded?
juarezrt 2 years ago
what a stupid question you're asking.
if our troops convertly entered a foreign country, hijacked 4 planes and few them into that country's buildings killing thousands of people
and then this foreign country was able to round up members of the group that planned the attack then i would expect them to receive worse than waterboarding.
"rules of war" are a joke. they were not meant for terrorist activity when they were written.
larrymyclown 2 years ago
Why is it stupid? You obviously approve of torturing prisoners. Why wouldn't another country do the same? If water boarding is something we do only to terrorist who fly jetliners into buildings, then its punishment, not a means to interrogate.
The excuse that is used for using this tactic is that the information that is produced will save lives. Well, any army can claim the same when torturing foreign troops.
In any case, it is illegal to torture ANYONE. That includes suspected terrorists.
juarezrt 2 years ago
There's a difference between waterboarding the leaders and decisionmakers like khalid sheikh mohammad and some order-taking terrorists. why don't you people get his.
KSM is one of the leaders of al qaeda who masterminded the 9/11 attacks. he deserves waterboarding for both intelligence gathering, and if torture is a by-product that will help save american lives then so be it.
you're just another leftist liberal panzy. you people are self-hating angry people.
larrymyclown 2 years ago
Fuck American laws and principles, it's war and the enemy is big and scary, and unless we can act like them we'll ALL DIE! Oh noes!!!!
(That's what I hear when a torture apologist yammers on like they aren't an affront to everything this country stands for.)
ismeme 2 years ago
You do know that torture is illegal under the agreements US has signed and agreed to?
Everyone who has been waterboarded -- even voluntarily -- has called it torture after they have experienced it. Maybe you should give it a try.
oldjoe5 2 years ago
One of the things that immediately struck me was remembering what convicted soldiers said about what they did. They did things because CONTRACTORS told them to do those things. If you've had the displeasure of meeting Eric Prince the CEO of Blackwater, then you should expect anything. Eric Prince almost got his ass beaten in a bar many years ago. I regret that I didn't cause permanent head injuries at that opportunity.
dayglowgreendoor 2 years ago 3
Have you monitored what Blackwater is doing in Calif. and private industry? Still getting away with operating, and changed their name to Xe. There was a big uproar and petition effort to stop them in CA but it failed as I recall.
Ermengarde11 2 years ago
Hi Ermengarde! What is Blackwater doing in California? Or Xe as you call them. I haven't heard of this yet, could you fill me in? Thanks!
peaceispatriotic7 2 years ago
peace is patriotic, what a great handle!! It certainly is patriotic.
It's been about a year since I kept up with this, they were trying 2set up something near the border as I recall,probably something 2do w/border issues but I can't remember 4sure. I know Rachel Maddow covered this recently--as 2the name change, pron. "ZEE". I signed sev. petitions at a Calif. website, but as I changed ISP I've lost all my data stored on it. Try 2google blackwater Calif.&see if you can get more info!
Ermengarde11 2 years ago
Woa dogg! You saying you went toe to toe with Eric Prince?
FugitiveVette 2 years ago
If waterboarding works so well, why didn't Bush have Saddam waterboarded to find out where he hid his alleged WMDs?
If waterboarding works so well, why did they only waterboard 3 of the thousands of "terrorists" they detained? How did they know none of the others had crucial info on OBL or new attacks?
ismeme 2 years ago
touche' !! I doubt that they're being truthful though when they say they only did it to 3 detainees. Since when does the truth work for them??!! Sooner or late they'll find out how the lies will work against them. NO integrity whatsoever, gld they are out of office and will be glad when they shut up and crawl under something.
Ermengarde11 2 years ago
Speaking for myself, I'd betray everything and anything if waterboarded. I'd be singing like a canery. It works as does other means of torture.
Trust me. I can make anybody tell me anything, then thank me for putting them out of their misery. And if some animal knew about an attack that would kill Americans, he either sing or die in agony.
And that's most of voting America. Be careful about throwing our party under the bus.
toldyousohaha 2 years ago
You do realize how ridiculous it is to think that out of all the thousands of terrorists we've detained, none had any useful information about AQ/forthcoming attacks - or they sang without the need for torture - don't you?
Only 3 required waterboarding.
My, my...and I thought terrorists were tough.
ismeme 2 years ago
BTW, "our party" - you assume wrong. I'm not a Dem, I'm an independent who has voted Dem for nearly 20 years. They keep following the Repubs and moving away from me. At some point it's time to say buh-bye.
Until the Dems fix this with prosecutions, I'll throw them under the bus for it whenever I like.
ismeme 2 years ago
And then what? You prove a point, then Republicans take over. Nice...
toldyousohaha 2 years ago
I've been hearing that for years. It's the Dems' version of "9/11! 9/11!", using "fear of the alternative" to manipulate people to vote a certain way instead of voting one's conscience. No, thanks. If the Dems want to emulate and pardon the Repubs then they can do it without me next time.
ismeme 2 years ago
I agree with you ismeme! I have been a life long Democrat, but if this administration doesn't bring bush and/or cheney down on the torture issue, I will sadly never vote again. A Republican would never receive my vote because they are saying that we should even go after anyone that tortures. They say they are all about the Constitution and laws, but want to sweep it under the table if it means their party is prosecuted. Shame, shame!
peaceispatriotic7 2 years ago 2
The CIA didn't even need to torture, all they had to do was turn the terrorists over to one of our not so nice allies who have no qualms about torture. But instead Cheney just had to get the US directly involved. What a fool.
kymystic65 2 years ago
He did that too, turn detainees over to not so nice countries where torture is common.
ismeme 2 years ago
Maybe instead of prosecuting the Bushies, we should just allow those they harmed the most to deal with them. What's good for the goose . . . !! Chances are Obama, Congress &our Att. Gen. might not have to do much of anything if certain factions get ahold of them first. You'd think Cheney would be cowering under a log somewhere, but he's still running his mouth, &will most certainly regret it when it all finally comes home 2roost, I'm sure of that. It's the nature of things in this universe.
Ermengarde11 2 years ago
that's the truth! Which tells you a lot about ulterior motives that were really behind the whole thing. Trying to look like big shots is the least of those motives. Money and power have much more to do with it, and if you're not familiar with the workings of the New World Order, there's plenty of vids here you should check out! They have agenda that have been ongoing since hundreds of years ago, at least.
Ermengarde11 2 years ago
Cheney is part of the American Enterprise Institute. Look at their (AEI) goals and objectives and answer the question yourself....
OperationTailGunner 2 years ago
Cheney and the rest of them are capitalistic and political prostitutes. They will have to answer to their Maker, and then they'll see how smart they are.
Ermengarde11 2 years ago
this is the kind of story i never see on msnbc
oldhacks 2 years ago
After 911, I did not have an issue with terrorists getting tortured. I would have done it personally just to hear them scream.
Then my anger calmed. While it's wrong to make torture policy, let's not get carried away with how evil we say it is. It's not like we don't kill over 3,000 unborn babies daily. Human life is cheap.
Keep it real folks.
toldyousohaha 2 years ago
So what, we should only kill grown-up babies for useless and futile wars??
We only give birth to them to throw away their lives later?
Makes me wonder if the right wants all babies born just to kill them later -- opne way or another.
Ermengarde11 2 years ago
Once life is devaued, it no longer matters. You can snivel all you want, but facts are facts. We kill over 3000 unborn babies daily.
End of debate.
toldyousohaha 2 years ago
No it's not the end -- and you sound like you're happy about the devaluation of life, like it's that simple. Unborn babies are the least of our worris. This country has been overpopulated for half a century. that is the cause of virtually every problem human deal with.
the issue is not unborn babies. The issue is not getting pregnant in the first place. What have you done to assure this doesn't happen? Are you campaigning to help avoid these unwanted pregnancies?
Ermengarde11 2 years ago
No, I won't be campaigning for any damn thing. People need to take responsibility for themselves without me parading around like a fool. I have 5 kids all at the top of the food chain while most of pussy America grovels to see who gets to shine their shoes.
Please don't confuse my pointing out facts for an attitude of caring. I don't care. Kill babies, torture people, have casual sex, murder, steal, rape and do drugs.
The more losers in the world, the less competition for me and mine.
toldyousohaha 2 years ago
If not, you're part of the problem and a hypocrite to criticize others. Teach your sons to keep it in their pants or take responsibility when they don't. It's that simple. Stop sexualizing children and give your kids some real values and real guidance, instead of parroting the anti-choice movement. Address the CAUSES and not the SYMPTOMS of issues. Abortion is a symptom of a much deeper cause. It's all in the perspective and common sense.
Ermengarde11 2 years ago
LMFAO! You are anti-choice. What about those who "chose" to torture terorists? How about I turn your own words around. Consider: "'Torture' is a symptom of a much deeper cause". You see? I change one word, and POOF! Anyway, life is devalued with abortion, and that is why nobody gives a shit. And BTW, I am NOT pro-life or republican. But I know selective morality when I see it, so that makes it ALL POLITICAL. Who are you fooling?
Nothing will come of the torture issue. Remember, I toldYouSo.
toldyousohaha 2 years ago
You can twist the truth all Ulike, but TRUTH remains Truth, &you wouldn't know it if it bit you. UR either dense or a troll. UR trying to put issues into a generic statement: We need to address the CAUSES of problems, not put bandaids on the SYMPTOMS. So your turnaround of my words shows you only want to argue with a twisted mentality. You like death, Umust have been a member of the Bush admin. You're not the top of the food chain. Get in the swamp with nop weapons with a gator, you'll see.
Ermengarde11 2 years ago
I am a Democrat supporter of Obama, so Bush had no use for me. You wil find that in the end, Obama and all the key Democrats will stifle anything substantive on the torture issue. We'll throw some bones to the liberal activists, but nothing more.
Again, it's political suicide at a time when we are a hair away from the 60 vote senate majority. You think we're just going to hand Republicans our power just to make a point on torture when we already kill the unborn? FORGET IT!
toldyousohaha 2 years ago
There's always an election coming up. The excuse is handy and speaks volumes on the level of integrity that can expected from those who use it.
I no longer vote for anyone who refuses to investigate crimes for reasons of political expediency.
ismeme 2 years ago
Well, that rules out a vote for anybody known. You could vote for my Aunt Melba!
toldyousohaha 2 years ago
If that's true then so be it. I stopped voting GOP almost two decades ago for similar reasons; the party lost its integrity. More and more people recognized that and now it's barely a national party.
If the Dems refuse to take advantage and distinguish themselves as the moral and ethical conscience of this country, then they're really no better than the right and don't deserve my vote.
ismeme 2 years ago
Well that's pretty much politics as usual, but I have reason to believe Obama will surprise you on that one. Just wait and see!! He's very good at biding his time and making the right move at the right moment, so far anyway.
Ermengarde11 2 years ago
I'm not sure what your point is about choosing to torture terrorists. I certainly don't condone it. Anyway I already responded to this post, it came up fresh in my inbox again, so as a matter of courtesy I'll say this: As to you &yours, this country &its citizens ARE you &yours. We ARE our brothers' keepers.
What you begrudge others drives away abundance from yourself--spiritually, materially, etc. So don't cheat yourself by taking that arrogrant attitude that you're an island--nobody is/Peace
Ermengarde11 2 years ago
Think of the person you love the most, and imagine that individual in grave danger. You have in a cell a man with information that will save your loved one, but time is running out.
You know very well what you'd do. I would do likewise.
toldyousohaha 2 years ago
I'd let the police handle it like they do every day.
ismeme 2 years ago
Oh, and a fine job they do....
toldyousohaha 2 years ago
If you don't like our laws, move to a country where torture is legal.
ismeme 2 years ago
I just wouldn't trust that. If I were the one being tortured I'd most likely make up anything to stop the torture. And that's apparently been the case. But we agree to disagree, be blessed.
Ermengarde11 2 years ago
torture may get us false infromation
Kite208 2 years ago
they burried a guy alive. thats sick. cruel.
jon2xu 2 years ago
The alraedy shrinking republican party just lost one more.I seen today that Arlen Specto will be joining the democratic party. The latest polls say that just 21% of americans are willing to call themselves republicans. I guess all that will be left are a few extremeists and Fox news willing to follow Dick Cheney into hell!
plumbweis 2 years ago
The problem is you can't prove a negative. You can't say we used torture and got info that saved american lives because there is no way to tell if they were telling the truth.And it has come to light that the good intel was obtained brfore the waterboarding began back when the FBI was in charge. Also once you waterboard you can't go back and use other means to get intel. And as with KSM i'd say after the first 30 times he was waterboarded the rest were simply done to torture!
plumbweis 2 years ago
Or like Cenk suggested, to extract more false information. I'm not big on conspiracies but this one makes perfect sense to me. We all know Cheney was doctoring information on Iraq and we know these "confessions" were a big part of the rationale for war.
megamarsvin 2 years ago
I find it difficult to say anything good about Cheney. I confess that I am completely biased towards him.
I firmly believe that he is a crook. He is a very arrogant person, and completely full of himself.
He could not care less about the suffering and loss of life in Iraq that came about because of him and the president he served. That said I am not sure he served anyone besides himself. I think he would do anything to reinforce his ego.
aldushuxley 2 years ago
americans and jews also made the taliban and hussein, they gave them money and wappons for so many years, and after they didnt need them, they started fighting against them, the world is so fucked up, and the reason for it is america and israel
zizou19844 2 years ago
The majority know this. The neocon administration trained the taliban and gabe Hussein chemical weapons and buddied up to him. You are not saying anything I do not know. But to say that 95% support this shit is way off. Do not give them that much credit. The majority of us are pissed off that innocent lives have been taken. Stop listening to the neocons and talk to the majority.
rodzmen1 2 years ago
smart man you are rodz
theentrepreneur2006 2 years ago
theentrepreneur I am a girl! LOL!!!!
rodzmen1 2 years ago
lol a SMART one may I add
theentrepreneur2006 2 years ago
Thank you!
rodzmen1 2 years ago
There world just got alot smaller. Sen. Specter a republican. A big time republcian all theis years just switched party. He said his republican party is fowl. When are they just going to throw in the towel or just the freaks going to stay. They are going down!
rodzmen1 2 years ago
Just give Fox news about a hour or so and they will begin the endless character assassintaion of Arlen Spector.
plumbweis 2 years ago
Oh shit! You are right plumbweis, I forgot about that. That is exactly what they will do. They will get all their talking points going. This is where they start throwing shit around until something sticks. Hoping something sticks. I was in the car earlier and heard Rush goin at it already. Specter knows what is coming. He knows them from the inside out so I'm sure he will handle them fine. All the smart ones are leaving. LOL!!!
rodzmen1 2 years ago
yes, they need to get out of politics or find a party that stands for something real.
Or better yet, just stand up without party affiliation, and stop shooting themselves in the feet!
Progress is a slow thing, but the Repub party is dying a slow death because it's all about party lines, not true patriotism!!
Repubs are anything but conservative. They have thrown our country down the drain.
Ermengarde11 2 years ago
americans are worse than my country was 70 years ago! not even hitler managed to kill more innocent ppl, to spread more lies and propaganda than the americans and jews over the last year, thx for helping the taliban and hussein with money.
Americans are jews are u the scum of the world, without u, the world would be a better place, no1 is responsible for more wars since the second worldwar than the american bastards, i piss on you and your brainwashed dumb familie
still, have a nice day XD
zizou19844 2 years ago
*americans and jews are the scum of the world
sry 4 my bad english u brainwashed and stupid retards
zizou19844 2 years ago
You are just as ignorant as the small group of Cheney followers. You talk the same as the neocons. No different. They also like to call names and stereotype.
rodzmen1 2 years ago
You can not talk to all of us like that. In that case the world would be a better place without your country. Is Cheney a monster? Yes. Is that my fault? No. You are talking a small group of neocons that are loyal to Cheney the majority want him locked away for good.
rodzmen1 2 years ago
small group? probably 95% of the american public belives their lies. or why did they vote for bush twice?
america is the terrorist, together with the jews, do u know how many islamic countries got attacked by them before 9/11? do some research, but they made the whole world belive like muslims are the "terroists" while terrorism doesnt even excist, since when im a criminal when i attack back? how stupid can u be? btw, also our bitch merkel is helping u with the massmurdering
zizou19844 2 years ago
zizou your one of the few smart people left on the damn youtube...Americe is so backwards and I glad people are starting to wake up
theentrepreneur2006 2 years ago
thy dude, u are cool XD
zizou19844 2 years ago
why is cheney a monster? because he wanted to protect you?
Manny32V 2 years ago
Protect us from what? The Iraq army or air force coming to a town in America.....
newbombturk 2 years ago
no...but because he (among others) are responsible for deaths of innocent people who (many) had nothing to do with 9/11 or any other terror attacks.
theentrepreneur2006 2 years ago
LOL!!!!! That is the funniest thing I have ever heard Manny! He ordered millions to be slaughtered to protect me. I should be grateful huh? Fuck Cheney! The only thing he wants to protect is his ass. He is a mass murderer! Why did that stupid fuck order those planes not be shot down when he was ahead of NORAD? And why was he ahead of NORAD when he knows nothing about NORAD? He will be exposed for the horrific pain he caused others that are innocent. He was 100xs worse than saddam.
rodzmen1 2 years ago
You're hot :)
Vajra13 2 years ago
he ordered millions to be slaughtered. man where the hell are you geting this information from.
i say you move to iran if you hate what we do so much.
Manny32V 2 years ago
Who is we? The very few little neocons in this country? Why is that always your awnser? Why don't you move to Iran since you believe in such horrific barbaric practices!
rodzmen1 2 years ago
And Manny you must have been smoking something if you believe there were Alqieda before. We created them by killing killing killing. How would you feel if someone snatched you out of bed, and said we are looking for manny rodriguez but your name is ramirez that is close we are putting you in a secret prison and drowning you and torturing you, and we are going to kill your kids. Would you be angry? Would that suck? You neocons are a dying breed. Move over there's a new sherrif in town.
rodzmen1 2 years ago
What about the soldiers who were left swinging in the wind (Aubugraib) by the Bush administraton? I have heard Cheney whine that poor Scooter didn't get pardoned(even as he never spent a day in jail) but never gave a shit about these guys who are still sitting in jail for following the orders he gave! Thy let these guys be prosecuted and never said a word in their defense even though they knew they were only following orders. And Why? To save their own asses! Sickening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
plumbweis 2 years ago
Cheney needs to be prosecuted. The stain he has left on our country will take decades to recede. The death penalty is a far too lenient penalty for such an endlessly treacherous and evil man. How the right wing can still stand by Cheney in light of what he has done and call themselves patriots is a joke and a sham. These people are in deep, deep denial and are more partisan than American.
Vajra13 2 years ago 3
It's really hard for me to comprehend that he hasn't been prosecuted and why is there not more outrage? He did so many things that broke the law and it seems to be getting swept under the carpet. Where is justice for all those innocent people that have lost lives because of Cheney. They hung Saddam for the same things and there was an outrage. I think if all the truth comes our or I hope people will see the light. The torture and lie to go to war and outing CIA was enough for me.
rodzmen1 2 years ago
obama will be worse than bush, and bush was an absolute disaster. but the morons eat up the one party system we have.
dsgI0p 2 years ago
Pelosi knew about the torture along with a half dozen other Democrats.
Now they are OUTRAGED.
I laugh at this nonsense.
mor543212003 2 years ago
And we'll find out how much they were told by the Bush Admin. If they knew waterboarding was involved and still okay'd it, then they should face the same consequences.
ismeme 2 years ago
She did not know at the time it happened. She found out later that it had been ordered. And then she hadn't said anything. Which still pisses everyone off. She should have said something if she had any morality at all.
rodzmen1 2 years ago
cheney is the 1st VP that requested & received from Congress civil service protection after leaving office. bush/cheney were so secretive it board-lined on paranoia. You might argue that it was for our military safety. I believed that at 1st. I can tell you that I absolutely DO NOT believe that now. How President Clinton got impeached, and bush/cheney did not is beyond my imagination! I know C-Span can be boring, but I would suggest everyone watch sub-committee meetings. Especially now. Wow!
phillipmarch22 2 years ago 4
Thank You phillipmarch22 for all your information. And there is alot more to learn. I believe the more this gets out and the more we learn we can get involved and stop this barbaric practice. And bring America back to the higher standing it once was. And we will.
rodzmen1 2 years ago
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If anyone on this site cares at all that the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS TORTURING CAPTIVES: Please read - "Truth, Torture, and the American Way", by Jennifer Harbury. Why did she write this book? Her husband was tortured for 3 years and then murdered. During that 3 years of torture he NEVER SAID A WORD. Not only is torture illegal, there are 3 layers of laws that ABSOLUTLY PROHIBIT TORTURE, leaving NO excuse whatsoever and under ANY circumstance that makes torture legal. Please get involved.
phillipmarch22 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Waterboarding=Torture
Torture=Ilegal
lllegal=Investigation
Investigation=Determination=Arrest
Arrest=Court =Innocent or Guilty
Innocent=Freedom
Guilty=Prison
Real Simple. Check your politics at the door and DEMAND justice. Justice IS NOT a political issue! If the person that broke in to your house and stole your stuff, you wouldn't give a fuck if he was a Democrat or Republican.
phillipmarch22 2 years ago
Lucifer... is waiting patiently for Dick Cheney to arrive...
ukspartan7 2 years ago
LOL! i always think. What the hell is he going to do if there is a heaven and hell? Dick Cheney is in deep shit!
rodzmen1 2 years ago
Your absolutely right rodzmen. cheney has been hiding under his desk during the last 2-1/2 years of the bush administration, and all of the sudden he can't get enough camera time. It is called, "Cover Your Ass Time". What is happening is cheney destroyed the documents he is now requesting. He is evil, but he aint stupid!
phillipmarch22 2 years ago
Is there any way to find out which records or how many were destroyed?
rodzmen1 2 years ago
To rodzmen1: I don't know if records were destroyed. If you remember the Attorney Gonzales scandel, (bush's 1st Attorney General), cheney was asked to disclose documents and bush made an executive order saying cheney did not have too. What I am very supicious about is that at the beginning of bush's term, cheney was very visible. During the last 2 years of the bush administration, cheney was GONE, under his desk, hidden! Con't
phillipmarch22 2 years ago
So sad that Cheney took this great country down that road. It sucks!
rodzmen1 2 years ago
cheney did ???
IckyThump101 2 years ago
Come on! He was Georgie's boss. Everyone knows that. Look now. Do you see GWB coming out and saying shit? From day one we would all say Cheney is the mastermind. He even built his favorite company up in the process. Cheney is a madman and anyone to dispute that is sadly mistaken. Stay tuned to more in the news. We have just scratched the surface of what really has gone on. Cheney is alot more powerful than you will ever imagine.
rodzmen1 2 years ago
dude, cheney didnt start anything he perpetuated it. whats happening is nothing new. read a book by noam chomsky or visit the bertrand russell archives. crist.
IckyThump101 2 years ago
Who is Cenk talking about right here? You know Cheney ordered that torture. Cheney outed that CIA agent to. Cheney got the no-bid contracts for Haliburton
rodzmen1 2 years ago
I have seen alot of the 911 conspiracy videos.
rodzmen1 2 years ago
your an idiot. you sound about 14 years old or retarded.
IckyThump101 2 years ago
And you sound like your at the level of one of those crazy neocons. Nice name calling. You got class.
rodzmen1 2 years ago
And stop calling me dude just because my youtube name is rodzmen. lol!
rodzmen1 2 years ago
King of Fresno decides what is life and what isn't. King of Fresno decides what is murder and what isn't. You sound like Dick Cheney to me.
First off dude, you live in Fresno. Sorry.
Second off, why do you automatically think I'm religous? Just because I'm against killing babies means I am religous? Don't think so.
The thought of getting an abortion is to most normal people, very disturbing.
Why?
Let's hear from king of Fresno. The sensitive intellectual from FRESNO.
mor543212003 2 years ago
Torture is wrong but drilling a hole in a baies head and sucking her brains out is perfectly fine with Democrats.
How compassionate. What great people you are.
mor543212003 2 years ago
Thanks to the American haters we now get to be tortured by obama.
donottake 2 years ago
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this is scary if u read this far u will die in 10 days if u dont send to any 15 videos in 2 hours good luck hope u dont die
turkeyman1239 2 years ago
Bush needed evidence to link Saddam to Al Qaeda, and he used 'enhanced interrogation techniques' designed to produce lies in order to get it. What does this prove? It proves that Bush was not just incompetent, he was willfully & criminally incompetent.
Now we must wait & see if the Dept.of Justice will do its job. Prosecute the bastard and his gang of self-confessed criminals.
Worst administration in the history of the USA. Ever.
Silberdachs 2 years ago 5
so, let's see. cheney knew torture didn't work to get good intelligence. the FBI knew it didn't work. the CIA knew it didn't work. the communist chinese and north koreans knew it worked to elicit LIES.
at THIS point, if you're still advocating torture to "keep us safe," you're THE FOOL who's screaming "hallelujah" in a church where the choir, the parishioners AND THE PREACHER know it's a SCAM.
and now that the information's out there, you're a fool who knows he's being fooled.
leofilm 2 years ago
Cheney believes he didn't torture?
Why?
Because he believes if he directed it, it wasn't torture.
But he is losing many right-wing Chiristians with this philosophy.
DillonX 2 years ago 2
Making enemies, republicans lately seem to be good at doing that. Hince, is why Obama won the election, whether you like to hear this or not.
creepyscan 2 years ago 3
EVERYONE KNOWS THAT YOU CAN TORTURE ANYONE INTO SAYING ANYTHING! If i was being tortured I would admit to ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING ON THE FIRST BREATH! WAKE UP EVERYONE!
DRDNIBOY 2 years ago 3
Exactly. This is sick. Cheney just signed off on torture just so he could finish off Sadaam. As a result, we hav lost 4200 soldiers. This is the worst thing. Oh man it makes me upset.
bluesboy25000 2 years ago 4
Bush, Cheney, Rice, and Rumsfeld all need to be put on trial.
And I hope they're waterboarded in hell for an eternity.
DillonX 2 years ago 3
"Bush, Cheney, Rice, and Rumsfeld all need to be put on trial."
You forgot Powell?
mraevirdomil 2 years ago 2
And Pelosi, who knew about it and did nothing. Until it was politically useful to fake OUTRAGE.
mor543212003 2 years ago
"And Pelosi, who knew about it and did nothing. Until it was politically useful to fake OUTRAGE."
I would go for that if our justice systems finds her guilty war crimes.
mraevirdomil 2 years ago
Our justice department is politicized. So this would never happen until her party is out of power. Looks like our government is going down the road of banana republics, where the party who loses power becomes political prisoners.
This is bad. And don't think the favor won't be returned to Obama's administration if it happens. Both parties are highly corrupt money mongers so it will happen.
BTW how do you feel about the war being expanded under Obama. And is killing worse than torture?
mor543212003 2 years ago
I thought that we were a civilize nation and we protect human rights around the world. If the US don't hold those accountable for the beatings//torture the US is nothing but hypocrites.
UBUICounterAttack 2 years ago
Personally, I don't care who knew what, Who ever controls the CIA is calling the shots.PERIOD
Those who call the shots and signed those torture document are the one's that violated the Geneva Convention, article 3 and those are the one's need to be held accountable. I"m a Liberal and I'm a huge Obama supporter. But, I don't care if a Republican or Democrat that signed those torture documents. They need to be held accountable. But I know that the GOP is just blowing smoke out their ass
UBUICounterAttack 2 years ago
Ok lets say Nancy Pelosi was on the committee, there's no way in the world that Bush and Cheney was going to listen to her. Bush and Cheney controlled the CIA, not Nancy Pelosi...PERIOD
Behind closed doors Bush and Cheney did their dirty work...PERIOD
Cheney and the GOP/conservatives are just trying to cover their ass and see which Democrat they can point the finger at..PERIOD
UBUICounterAttack 2 years ago
Bingo
TheKingOfFresno 2 years ago
Here's a question. We all agree torture is bad. Butwhat do you call drilling a hole in a babies head and sucking his brains out.
Is this OK with all of you against torture?
Thanks for your intelligent reply.
Now here's the part where you tell me I live in a trailer and protest abortion clinics.
mor543212003 2 years ago
I call it MAYBE 1% of abortions and honestly, I don't mind conceding making late terms illegal (except in the case of the mother's health if course) if it would shut up the Catholics and Southerners and we could move on to discussing LIVING issues.
TheKingOfFresno 2 years ago
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TheKingOfFresno 2 years ago
Oh, and nobody thinks abortion is "great" as you claim. We just think it is a crime to tell a woman that she has to carry a child when she doesn't wish to. It's her body and until that baby gets a nervous system it isn't even close to alive.
Here's an idea, why don't you stop worshiping a god that, in your imagination, sends unborn babies to hell.
Also, quick question Mr. Holier Than Though: Do babies that die due to miscarriages go to hell or does space daddy give them a "my bad" pass?
TheKingOfFresno 2 years ago 2
More importantly, the worst thing you can do is have a kid when you aren't financially and emotionally prepared to care for it. And while adoption might be an option for white babies, unfortunately the demand for other races (in America) is low.
Damning a kid to foster care is not "pro-life" in my mind. Nor is voting against SCHIP or universal health care.
Encyclopeteia 2 years ago
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ITS OFFICIAL!!! I now despise Barack Obama more than George W. Bush. He refuses to appoint a special prosecutor to punish Bush for his illegal WIRE TAPPING and TORTURING ways. Its becoming real clear that our government tortured detainees not for information but for forced confessions. This is the perfect way to purge out our most corrupt officials both Dem and Rep.There is no way Obama will ever get anything done with the gangster leadership we have now. Lets see if "BO" wants real change
onerpone 2 years ago
Cheney and Bush do not care much about torture. Thier backers however, do care about it.
Do a Youtube search on the video titled "Obsession".
A Right Wing extremist propaganda video about radical Islam.
This video was funded by Cheneys comrades in Arms, the American Enterprise Institute...(Clarion)
OperationTailGunner 2 years ago
don't forget (blackwater)in iraq and new news abot it !!
artin74 2 years ago
They destroyed the torture video tapes because they knew if those tapes were made public, a lot of the Bush Administration would be going to prison
kymystic65 2 years ago
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This country is being turned into a true circus, how can anyone take this administration seriously. this crowd sets the highjump bar at two inches and believe its a major achievement if they clear the bar causing jubilation the likes never seen before. most productive 100 days, if bs is production they have set a standard that will never be broken.
dkkght46 2 years ago
Dick Cheney desreves to get tortured. Let's see how he feels about it after that. John McCain knew what it was like, and no aurprise he tried to get people to stop it (by the way, not a repub or John McCain supporter, just saying).
fanaticmoron 2 years ago
I am against torture all the way, even for the most twisted and evil amongst us like Cheney. A life sentence for genocide and torture should do it.
You think he will ever be punished? Nope.
GnosticAtheist 2 years ago
Cheney deserves all the punishment he can have and DESERVES...and Bush can have the same thing if it happens
SakuraSakae 2 years ago