Liturgical Dance & Cardinal Arinze

[EgoCredo1]

I am a Black American Catholic, and Black Christians across denominations in North America do have a long history of liturgical and praise dances. My parish in the United States had liturgical dance. This is Christ centered dancing for worship and it is nothing at all like the secular dancing.

[SolSorrell]

I don't think he's excellent at all.....I am a Catholic and I don't necessarily disagree with this man at all.......BUT this man is just plain rude to people, the flock of Christ.....he is self-serving and opinionated as to his own beliefs. I am glad he was not chosen and will not be chosen as pope......God the Father- forgive me. Your church cannot have a man like this, with an arrogant demeanor, defending your church.

[zhangruyi]

Cardinal Arinze is just excellent. I cannot believe we have people like in the Church. God bless Cardinal Arinze. Please continue to teach us to be good Catholics. Just excellent. Thanks be to God.

[rpgabc123]

The fact that the CDW has "considered the question for many years" shows the sad state of liturgical affairs that we are in at the present time.

[TheJoseph310]

Im so glad i dont believe anything this man is saying!!

[29psalm]

i respect all religions...however what he is saying is what he believes, but it is not in the Bible.

[Titussian]

The prayer mentioned in Psalms is not a Mass. You can dance while praying outside the Mass.

[epituchano]

Cdl. Arinze is wise in his opinion. Holy Spirit, renew the face of the earth ... through your traditional Missal!

[sukka113]

Dance in the liturgy is a liturgical abuse. Sacrosanctum Concilium never gives permission for liturgical dance. Dance in the liturgy takes away from the blessed sacrament, and turn the mass into entertainment. There is no cultural or historical basis for dance in the liturgy, it was introduced by illegitimate means after the second vatican council.

Pray to our lady for the return of the traditional Catholic Church

[johns58w]

I like Cardinal Arinze. Obedience to the Magisterial teachings of the Church. I have been at some websites where Catholic Church litrgical abuses are still rampant. One parish Mass had a lady in a robe carrying a bowl of incense dancing infront of the altar. So pagan, so wiccan, so new age, irreverent and disrespectful. This is why liturgical dancing is not permitted. The extreme liturgical abuses of "Spirit of Vatican II" which is the V II council documents taken out of context.

[javierperezosorio]

I thinks this is a very closed vision of culture! I desagree.

[mammyoriordan]

Sharing this on fb. If that's ok? - Blessings - Rene

[jakem29]

Dude do you even read the Bible? How can you say that dance is not a form of praise or worship? you should check out Psalms 149:3 and Psalms 150:4 where it says that we should praise the lord with the dance...

[kolbe1019]

@jakem29 Yes, but at Mass... we are present at one and the same Sacrifice that happened on Golgotha... its not a place for dancing... Learn from the angels in Revelation and put your face on the ground... Holy Holy Holy

[GodofReapers]

@coastiecouple We praise God outside of Mass too. I absolutely agree that EVERY thought word and action should praise God, and that if we can dance for his greater glory, we should. But I do not write poetry to praise God, or play my bass to praise Him, or read a spiritual book for praise, or do math, or discuss philosophy, or run cross-country, or dance, IF I am in the Mass. I do all these things outside of Mass; but at Mass, I am doing what is appropriate for that sacrifice.

[daleksith]

Why would you dance during mass?

[temp911Luke]

rock music is not even good for a picnic, however Cardinal Arinze could not know about the danger behind that music. The reason why is not good is because so called rock music could lead to a possession. Stay away from that music. Very dangerous.

[Kaitipoo]

@Kolbe You better tell Cardnial Mahoney in LA it is wrong so they will stop it at the Masses at the LA Religious ED Congress because aparently 50,000 plus Catholics including Archbishops, Bishops, and Cardinals are wrong and we are not supposed to dance at Mass. Look it up on UTube under LA Religious ED Congress and click on Closing ceramony which was a Mass.

[Iggy3d]

Great man. Putting the record straight, in his own way.

[coastiecouple]

The bible says to praise the lord with your whole self.... All over the Psalms there is a call to praise in dance... what do we do with this?

[coastiecouple]

@coastiecouple Just which he had offered a Bible based response.

[kolbe1019]

@coastiecouple The mass is a Sacrifice. That is what we go to Mass for. We go to Mass to offer Jesus on the Cross to God the Father. If you want to dance... dance, but not at Mass.

[coastiecouple]

@kolbe

Dear friend and fellow Christian, Please know that I don't aim to trigger defenses with my statements. It is only out of a desire to know and better understand. Traditions for the purpose of tradition is not in my understanding of Christ or the radical message that he brought to this world. He often criticized the Pharisees for being too concerned with ritual. I am blessed that the God given talent to worship God with my whole self... with my whole body... is welcomed. God's peace to you.

[ominoreg]

@kolbe1019 Amen!

[MyBetty111]

When the Pope celebrates the Novus Ordo he does NOT indulfe in liturgical abuse like many priests. There is NO communion in hand, there is only kneeling when one receives communion, there are NO altar girls, no liturgical dancers with incense boats! So, yes, the Novus Ordo can--CAN--be a MESSY Mass, and often NOT valid.

[tormus1]

Well put, your Eminence. As a Catholic church organist I feel very responsible for the music I play in the church. I am always advising couples against wedding music which is at variance with the celebration of the Sacrament. I use the analogy that one would not sing a hymn at the bridal waltz during the reception. Sacred music is for sacred occasions and secular music is for secular occasions.

[TheChurchMilitant]

@humongerous Its not all about you. Its all about God. The Mass is the sacrifice of Christ at Calvary and Nobody was dancing at Calvary. God is really present and you want to take attention away from His work to dance... So go ahead... dance... in the parish hall, or in the street or with your friends, or in a box with a fox, but not at Mass.

[av8or46]

Who cares about culture? At Mass there should be only 1 culture, the CATHOLIC culture.

[MyBetty111]

No dance, no secular music, no ugly Protestant Novus Ordo Mess!!!!!!!!

[pussycat565]

@MyBetty111 My husband wasn't feeling good this morning so we're going to the Lifeteen mass at 6pm. I told my hubby he's in for an earful. I know he won't like it. I can only IMAGINE what Cardinal Arinze would think of Lifeteen.

[navarroportriple]

@MyBetty111 Calling the Mass that the Pope celebrates a "Mess" is downright disrepectful to Christ Whom we adore at the Novus Ordo Mass, just like we adore at the TLM.

[Mothman454]

Liturgical dance is for morons.

[alprasetya]

Nice, good work +Arinze :D :D

[chritting]

Good job, Cardinal Arinze :]

[Dans4Him]

True, there are many forms of dance that are NOT appropriate, but God commands us to dance as a form of worship!

"Let them praise His name with DANCING..." Psalm 149:3

"Praise Him with the tambourine and DANCING..."

Psalm 150:4

Dance is mentioned several times throughout the bible as a form of Celebratory Praise.

King David (a man after God's own heart) "DANCED before the Lord WITH ALL HIS MIGHT"

2 Sam 6:14

What an incredible picture of true, limitless, vulnerability before our God.

[KeepDeltaMyDelta]

But not in the mass.

[arends99]

But God commands us to dance as a form of worship? This is not true!!!

"Let them praise His name with DANCING..." Psalm 149:3

"Praise Him with the tambourine and DANCING..."

Psalm 150:4

King David (a man after God's own heart) "DANCED before the Lord WITH ALL HIS MIGHT"

2 Sam 6:14 ......... Moses and Samuel were not Catholic, they were judaism .... Catholics had never done dancing during celebrating the Mass for almost 2000 years .... just before the council!!!!

[ponchola]

Our Western culture (in the US) is very, very, VERY different from ancient Jewish culture.

The Bible also lists rending one's clothing, moaning, and wearing sackcloth to mourn a loss.  Yet it would hardly be acceptable at a funeral Mass to publicly behave so.

It also doesn't mean that you can't dance for Jesus, for love or for joy for Him while you feel His presence. But rather, it is distracting and improper to publicly dance while the sacrifice of the Mass is being made on the alter.

[alprasetya]

A regular apology from protestanized Catholic, or the charismatic ones. The meaning of that word is not like what you mean. The New Testament has a liturgy, and the liturgy is within the Church. All what you have done like those interpretation is reducing the sacred liturgy. A grave matter as a grave deeds...

[arends99]

God commands us to dance as a form of worship! Is it True? No!!!

"Let them praise His name with DANCING..." Psalm 149:3

"Praise Him with the tambourine and DANCING..."

Psalm 150:4

King David (a man after God's own heart) "DANCED before the Lord WITH ALL HIS MIGHT"

2 Sam 6:14

Moses and Samuel were not Catholic, They are Judaism! For almost 2000 years Catholics never celebrate the Mass without dancing up to the council!!!

[nickelsT]

Liturgical dance has no place in the Latin Rite. Liturgical dance belongs on Broadway or in the basement in the rectory. If Novus Ordo BIG HAIR pantsuit "nuns" want to wiggle their bodies, let them go to a nightclub.

[latinmasslover]

God Bless the Cardinal! It's nice to see a cleric defend the Holy Mass.

[belladeballe]

I can't believe how many intolerant and rigid people are here at this thread...so quick to accuse, threaten and judge! It's truly a shame.

[inominedomine]

I want to ask His Emminence about "liturgical photography." It's a great annoyance: At the Holy Sacrifice. At Ordinations. Receiving Holy Communion close-ups. First Holy Communions. It's whenever the Bishop is present; so we'll have a nice "Our Sunday Visitor" front page. Craning over the back of the Bishop's Chair. In front of the altar, behind the altar, in the aisle; It's papparazziism gone amuck.

[dacatholicbandorgan]

I would think it is perfectly alright as long:

1.They do not Pass the Communion Rail and enter into the Holies of Holies (the Sanctuary and High Altar)

2. Turn of the flash

3. Do not make it obvious.

[luvdidfeet]

I have mixed feelings about contemporary music in Mass. I agree that the Music should be in worship and Adoration af God like the Cardinal said. However, we're still singing the songs we sang 50 years. There has to be Catholic Musicians who could write more contemporary music for Mass?

[1Hope4All]

Yes only Catholic hymns. None of this "Amazing Grace" song to be sung during the Mass. That song should be banned from all Masses.

[belladeballe]

@1Hope4All Why? Simply because you don't like it? The song "Amazing Grace" is a very POWERFUL song that talks of God's grace saving us. It has as much right in a Catholic Christian Mass as other hymns.

[1Hope4All]

bella, are you Catholic? If you are, I'm surprised you have no idea what one of the lyrics actually means. Don't get me wrong, I love that song (I use an instrumental in my Hope video). It's just not a "Catholic Hymn." It's a very nice song that just happens to have an error in it about how grace really works. So with that error in the song, it should NOT be sung at a Catholic Mass. Many parishes do not have it in their "repertoire" of hymns to be sung during Mass and I commend them.

[belladeballe]

Yes, I am a Cradle Catholic...and yes I am well aware of the lyrics and the story behind them. As as African American this song is special to me. There are far more erroneous songs sung at Masses all the time. Remember how John Denver's Annie Song was sung back in the 70s at lots of masses when the song was about his sexual relationship with her? At least Amazing Grace is still a spiritual song rather than sensual.

[1Hope4All]

bella, you are obviously not aware of the ONE part in the song that is INCORRECT. You just said that you are aware of the lyrics and the "story" behind them. You have no idea what I meant by the ERROR in the song. Please tell me which LYRICS in particular have that ERROR in them? You have no idea do you? NONE!

[belladeballe]

Look, you're not my Catechism teacher, my parent nor my judge. I DO know EXACTLY which lyric it is and I don't have to justify myself to you or anyone else. Why don't you go to Catholic Answers and you'll see that the song IS ok to sing at Mass!

[1Hope4All]

And as far as that other song, I have no idea what you mean. I've never heard that song sung at Masses. Whatever parishes did sing that song, those are LIBERAL parishes that ABUSE the GIRM and the Rubrics of the Mass. So they are WRONG in singing that song and other parishes need not follow suit with those that abuse the GIRM & Rubrics.

[belladeballe]

Hold on a minute 1Hope4All. You need to chill for a moment and STOP this attack...and yes you are attacking simply because someone don't share your holier than thou opinion. Do you think you are the only true Catholic on earth? That's pride and pride is a sin...a far worse sin than singing Amazing Grace at Mass.

[1Hope4All]

bella, I am not attacking YOU. I was simply asking you a question. One question you CANNOT answer and therefore make the excuse that I'm attacking you.

I do not know you and therefore cannot attack YOU as a person. I don't do Ad Hominem attacks.

You simply cannot answer my question and therefore YOU attack ME.

Please answer my original question. Which lyrics in the song have a mistake on how grace works?

[kadet001]

Being born of African decent, but considered "european" by appearance, I can say only one thing to this video.... "well done your Eminence!" You articulate your point theologically, and in a simple vernacular that ANYONE can understand.

[choirboy526]

even if it is part of their culture, it can't be used in the mass. We have a common culture in the Catholic Church and in our worship.

[Dewolty]

@choirboy526 You are ignoring the sacredness of culture and the tradition it preserves. What do you say with regard to the Eastern Rites?

[kolbe1019]

The videos you post showing dance are religious titillation. A very beautiful dance, but not for mass. The Eucharist is God. At Mass we enter into the heavenly liturgy with all the choirs of angels and saints (Read revelations 4-5) Mass is not to entertain. We do not come to admire each other. This dance is not appropriate for the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross therefor it is not appropriate for the sacrifice of the mass. Let God have 1 hour without our dances, and self seeking. God bless you

[gitasarasvati]

hmmm......there are many african descents in europe and america. so, can they dance (or have movement) in mass or not? and not all asian countries have dance in their religious culture. his comment is too generalized and simplistic.

[kolbe1019]

Dance no, not as we know it in our countries. Dance as we know it in America or in Europe shouldn't be done even in Africa or Asia. What the Cardinal clearly said was that many people who bring up the gifts are rigid where as many in Africa or Asia use refined movements expressing joy. This is not a dance or a show or anything that seeks approval or the admiration of others, but instead is a joyful display of glory to God. All are welcome: Black, white, African, Asian. Dancing is not allowed

[Sprice962]

see the next Pope

[camasta23m]

The Catholic Hymn books need MAJOR revision. 'Common! "A Mighty Fortress is our God" by LUTHER?!

[Rudziewicz]

I think "A mighty fortress" is the least of the Catholic hymnal's worries. Cracked open a "Gather" book lately? Been forced to listen to an amateur singer squeak out "Eagles wings?"

[belladeballe]

What's wrong with On Eagle's Wing? The words are directly from the Bible. Isiah 40:31

[belladeballe]

What's wrong with this song? Are you going to hold the writer against it? The words are directly from Scripture...and isn't part of Catholic teaching Scripture as well as tradition and magisterium? There should be no room for religious prejudice in the Church.

[Rudziewicz]

Where in my comment did I say anything about not liking the words? Did you read that somewhere? How nice of you to assume that I am against scripture.

[belladeballe]

Well, what is the reason then?

[Rudziewicz]

It is an insipid, overused tune lacking in any sort of depth and intellect. And it sung poorly, often.

[Rudziewicz]

*it IS sung...forgive the omission.

[belladeballe]

Fair enough...everyone to their own tastes. I know it's one of those songs one either loves or hates. I love it and try to sing it when I get a chance. Probably cuz I like that specific Bible verse it refers too.

[Rudziewicz]

Thank you for agreeing to disagree! :-)

[belladeballe]

You're welcome. At least you're not as rude as some here.

[bardarians]

I don't go to church but I like this priest he is very wise and insightful

[pigsarehot]

amen to that!

[Latin0077]

+1 for Cardinal Arinze.

[catholicmilitant]

Well said.