I hate to disagree with mr. Balicki as I hold him in the utmost regards. But the traditional salute as used in the militairy derives from the feudal ages when knights used to open their visor to show their faces as a token of respect.
Museum and archaeological institute to open as part of 'Year of Japan' in Turkey
"The Kaman Kalehoyuk Archaeological Museum and the Japanese Institute of Anatolian Archaeology will be inaugurated on Friday in Kaman town in Kırsehir province."
"In 2005 samples from the mound, what may be the oldest steel fragments in the world dating back to 1800 B.C., were announced by a Japanese expert."
"Best preserved of all the corpses is Yingpan Man, known as the Handsome Man, a 2,000-year-old Caucasian mummy discovered in 1995. He had a gold foil death mask - a Greek tradition - covering his blond, bearded face, and wore elaborate golden embroidered red and maroon wool garments with images of fighting Greeks or Romans."
"Even older than the Cherchen find is that of the 4,000-year-old Loulan Beauty, who has long flowing fair hair and is one of a number of mummies discovered near the town of Loulan."
"The Loulan Beauty, for example, was claimed by the Uighurs as their symbol in song and image, although genetic testing now shows that she was in fact European."
"At their peak, around 300BC, the influence of the Celts stretched from Ireland in the west to the south of Spain and across to Italy's Po Valley, and probably extended to parts of Poland and Ukraine and the central plain of Turkey in the east. These mummies seem to suggest, however, that the Celts penetrated well into central Asia, nearly making it as far as Tibet."
Any one interested in the European styles of stick fighting, Long sword, Unarmed Combat, Knife fighting. Might like to look at the following uploads on the tube.
Sorry PMATSOnTheMat maybe I didn’t make myself clear, I’m not talking about the elaborate and fascinating ritual that he is doing. I’m talking about the bit at 0.21-0.22 in the vid when he raises his hand to his forehead as in a standard military salute, that one sees in armies around the world. And says “you know what that is all about, that’s to show that your not armed.”
He is wrong, that comes from the west and originated from raising the visor on a knights helmet. When two people meet they showed that you were unarmed by extending there right hand then shaking each others hands. That’s how we end up with the handshake.
@Bulllseye2012 Lets not get into some long debate! FACT! Kali may be one of the OLDEST Combat Weapon Systems known!! With roots dating back to Persia fighting the damn spartans!! They had their own customs WAY before your Europeans ever picked up a sword!! Where did they get it from!?! Do a little bit more research my friend!
Dude don’t get me wrong, I’m not knocking Kali it showed its worth when the Philippinoe resistant fighters were fighting the Japanese. However it is naive of you to think that Spanish dagger and cut sword wasn’t incorporated into Kali. We know what the Europeans were doing with Swords daggers, disarms and unarmed combat, because we have the Manuals that show what they were doing.
@Bulllseye2012 No sir, I never once said that Kali did not have spanish influence, it does, and ALOT of it!! My only point was that the Filipino's were fighting with Blades long before the spanish ever showed up! This is a FACT that is easy to find on GOOGLE!
"Europeans were so scared of the Kali men that they banned the practice of the arts and would kill them if they were caught!"
Funny is it not that they were under the Boot of the Spanish, that they would be put to death by the Spanish, which is strange if they were better at fighting then the Spanish. And yet you now admit that Kali has a lot of Spanish fighting arts in it. There's a reason that the Spanish ruled, they simply out classed them.
The worlds oldest depiction of fencing is found on the Temple of Madinat Habu built by Ramses III Circa 1190 BC. There are Judges keeping Score and an inscription with the words “On Guard and watch what my valiant hands shall do.”
@Bulllseye2012 Some Historian say that the roots of Kali date back as far as August 7[1] or September 8–10,[2] 480 BC! Im no math teacher, but I do believe that this was before your precious ever saw swords! LOL but since you think that all bladed warfare started in Europe and that they are the ones who introduced ALL to the Filipinos, LOL, OK!! Good luck!
"Im no math teacher, but I do believe that this was before your precious ever saw swords!"
The date 1500 - 1100 BC is from The Archaeology of Weapons: R E Oakeshott. If it was 1500BC that would mean that you are out by one thousand & twenty yrs. If it was 1100 BC you’d be a bit closer at six hundred & twenty yrs, later. if we average the two dates we get 1300 BC. Which would still mean that Minoan Crete and Celtic Britain. Would be earlier by 820 yrs.
"With roots dating back to Persia fighting the damn spartans!!"
Yes interesting that you should mention that because the Spartans were Greek.
And when Alexander the Great with his hoplites go off to conquer Asia, what fighting art does he take with him pankration, it first enters the Olympic Games in 648 B.C, he reaches India in 326 BC.
Now if you’ve got a copy of The Filipino Martial Arts by Mr Inosanto Now you see all that defensive foot work, if you think I’m making this stuff up then you google The Spanish Circle
Take the Spaces out
h t t p : / / sjaqua. tripod. com / spanish . h t m
Or google Comparison of Thibault’s Circle and the Leiden Circle
You know if your Filipino then I can understand that remarks but if your occidental ( And I’m not talking about the Province in the Philippines) then I find it odd!
@Bulllseye2012 1) Sorry to break it to you man. And this is going to be my last mess. to you!! The filipino's were training in bladed warfare long before the Europeans! Infact if you to the time to research properly you wou know this. The Europeans were so scared of the Kali men that they banned the practice of the arts and would kill them if they were caught! This is why you will see a moon or even a candle in the logo cause they were forced to train at night!
Now we have the books that show the what the European were doing many of which were produced centuries before the Europeans ever set foot in the Philippines! Now where are the Filipino Books ? Don’t tell me these martially inferior Spanish burnt them right? :)
@Bulllseye2012 2) I have tons of books & video on European combat arts! And let me tell you, The Europeans are the ones took stuff from the Kali men not the other way around! And if they took a salute that they didnt understand & made their own meaning for it, so be it!! Its a shame that you have google at your fingertips and you still wont do the proper research!! FACT!! the Filipino's were practicing bladed arts long before the Europeans!! A 12 yr. old researching would know this! Good Luck!
He’s statement about the salute is not right, it has nothing to do with showing you were unarmed, it comes from the days of rising your visor on the European medieval helmet.
Its more likely the Hand shake shows non weapon in the hand.
"Europe did not bring knife fighting to the Filipinos!!"
I didn’t say that the Spanish bought knife fighting to the Philippines , I said that much of the stuff comes out of European military cut and trust sword in combo with knife. They incorporated these techniques into their arts.
Yes he also mentions in one of his books about the death of Ferdinand Magellan at the hands of Lapu Lapu in 1521. What he doesn’t mention, is there were 49 Europeans fighting with swords, pike, halberds, knifes and a few firearms against over a 1000 men, and the only reason that we know about it is they got away!
I hate to disagree with mr. Balicki as I hold him in the utmost regards. But the traditional salute as used in the militairy derives from the feudal ages when knights used to open their visor to show their faces as a token of respect.
Micahel213 7 months ago
Anyone interested in origins of Steel Google
Museum and archaeological institute to open as part of 'Year of Japan' in Turkey
"The Kaman Kalehoyuk Archaeological Museum and the Japanese Institute of Anatolian Archaeology will be inaugurated on Friday in Kaman town in Kırsehir province."
"In 2005 samples from the mound, what may be the oldest steel fragments in the world dating back to 1800 B.C., were announced by a Japanese expert."
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
Or Google
Genetic evidence on the origins of Indian caste populations.
Genome Res. 2001
U.S. National Library of Medicine
National Institutes of Health
Hmmm! Wonder how Swords end up in Asia ???
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
"Best preserved of all the corpses is Yingpan Man, known as the Handsome Man, a 2,000-year-old Caucasian mummy discovered in 1995. He had a gold foil death mask - a Greek tradition - covering his blond, bearded face, and wore elaborate golden embroidered red and maroon wool garments with images of fighting Greeks or Romans."
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
"Even older than the Cherchen find is that of the 4,000-year-old Loulan Beauty, who has long flowing fair hair and is one of a number of mummies discovered near the town of Loulan."
"The Loulan Beauty, for example, was claimed by the Uighurs as their symbol in song and image, although genetic testing now shows that she was in fact European."
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
"At their peak, around 300BC, the influence of the Celts stretched from Ireland in the west to the south of Spain and across to Italy's Po Valley, and probably extended to parts of Poland and Ukraine and the central plain of Turkey in the east. These mummies seem to suggest, however, that the Celts penetrated well into central Asia, nearly making it as far as Tibet."
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
And anyone interested that there were European Bronze age Celts living in China
Google
A meeting of civilisations: The mystery of China's celtic mummies
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
Anyone interested in the origin of the Sword which came from Europe might like to look at the:
Arms and Armour Virtual Gallery
The Pit rivers Museum Oxford
h t t p : / / webprojects. prm. ox.ac. uk /arms-and-armour/ o/ Europe/ 1884.119. 309/
Take the Spaces out
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
Any one interested in the European styles of stick fighting, Long sword, Unarmed Combat, Knife fighting. Might like to look at the following uploads on the tube.
Stick
escrime a la canne --- competition
Portuguese Stickfighting JOGO DO PAU
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
European Long Sword on the tube:
Longsword some techniques II (old interpretation)
Unarmed vs Long Sword Technique
Fechten mit dem langen Schwert
Longsword-Techniques by Zornhau, Offenbach/Germany
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
European Unarmed Combat on the tube
Kampfringen Fundamentals: Leg Drag
Renaissance Martial Arts and Modern Military Combatives
Medieval Wrestling
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
European Knife combat on the tube:
Weaponized Medieval Wrestling: the Dagger
Advanced german medieval dagger techniques
Dagger combat part 1
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
Another thing much of this stuff comes striate out of European sword and Dagger
Bulllseye2012 10 months ago
@Bulllseye2012 Europe did not bring knife fighting to the Filipinos!!
PMATSOnTheMat 8 months ago
@PMATSOnTheMat
Sorry PMATSOnTheMat maybe I didn’t make myself clear, I’m not talking about the elaborate and fascinating ritual that he is doing. I’m talking about the bit at 0.21-0.22 in the vid when he raises his hand to his forehead as in a standard military salute, that one sees in armies around the world. And says “you know what that is all about, that’s to show that your not armed.”
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
@PMATSOnTheMat
Cont:
He is wrong, that comes from the west and originated from raising the visor on a knights helmet. When two people meet they showed that you were unarmed by extending there right hand then shaking each others hands. That’s how we end up with the handshake.
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
@Bulllseye2012 And the OLD Filipino Kali men that handed this salute and meaning to Guro Dan say this is what it means, this is what it means!!
PMATSOnTheMat 8 months ago
@Bulllseye2012 Lets not get into some long debate! FACT! Kali may be one of the OLDEST Combat Weapon Systems known!! With roots dating back to Persia fighting the damn spartans!! They had their own customs WAY before your Europeans ever picked up a sword!! Where did they get it from!?! Do a little bit more research my friend!
PMATSOnTheMat 8 months ago
@PMATSOnTheMat
Dude don’t get me wrong, I’m not knocking Kali it showed its worth when the Philippinoe resistant fighters were fighting the Japanese. However it is naive of you to think that Spanish dagger and cut sword wasn’t incorporated into Kali. We know what the Europeans were doing with Swords daggers, disarms and unarmed combat, because we have the Manuals that show what they were doing.
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
@Bulllseye2012 No sir, I never once said that Kali did not have spanish influence, it does, and ALOT of it!! My only point was that the Filipino's were fighting with Blades long before the spanish ever showed up! This is a FACT that is easy to find on GOOGLE!
PMATSOnTheMat 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@PMATSOnTheMat
"My only point was that the Filipino's were fighting with Blades long before the spanish ever showed up!"
You posted:
"They had their own customs WAY before your Europeans ever picked up a sword!!"
You posted:
"The filipino's were training in bladed warfare long before the Europeans!"
Bulllseye2012 6 months ago
@PMATSOnTheMat
If your of European extraction then you alto, stop knocking the heritage of your forefathers,
And stop buying into the hyperboles of others . 49 men fought off over a 1000 men on that beach in 1521.
Bulllseye2012 6 months ago
@PMATSOnTheMat
"Europeans were so scared of the Kali men that they banned the practice of the arts and would kill them if they were caught!"
Funny is it not that they were under the Boot of the Spanish, that they would be put to death by the Spanish, which is strange if they were better at fighting then the Spanish. And yet you now admit that Kali has a lot of Spanish fighting arts in it. There's a reason that the Spanish ruled, they simply out classed them.
Bulllseye2012 6 months ago
@PMATSOnTheMat
Cont:
And you can look up any of the up loads on You Tube on the European arts that I’ve listed.
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
@PMATSOnTheMat
"Do a little bit more research my friend!"
OK!
The worlds oldest depiction of fencing is found on the Temple of Madinat Habu built by Ramses III Circa 1190 BC. There are Judges keeping Score and an inscription with the words “On Guard and watch what my valiant hands shall do.”
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
@PMATSOnTheMat
Cont:
"WAY before your Europeans ever picked up a sword!"
That I doubt, in fact the first swords appeared between 1500 - 1100 BC in Minoan Crete and Celtic Britain.
In addition, I can assure you that the lifting of the hand to the forehead comes from raising the visor on medieval helm.
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
Now given that we have the Manuals showing what Europeans were doing, What exactly is indigenous & what is imported?
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
@Bulllseye2012 Some Historian say that the roots of Kali date back as far as August 7[1] or September 8–10,[2] 480 BC! Im no math teacher, but I do believe that this was before your precious ever saw swords! LOL but since you think that all bladed warfare started in Europe and that they are the ones who introduced ALL to the Filipinos, LOL, OK!! Good luck!
PMATSOnTheMat 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@PMATSOnTheMat
"August 7[1] or September 8–10,[2] 480 BC!"
LOL you’ve actually managed to get it down to within the month ?????
Some Historian
Citation Who?
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
@PMATSOnTheMat
"Im no math teacher, but I do believe that this was before your precious ever saw swords!"
The date 1500 - 1100 BC is from The Archaeology of Weapons: R E Oakeshott. If it was 1500BC that would mean that you are out by one thousand & twenty yrs. If it was 1100 BC you’d be a bit closer at six hundred & twenty yrs, later. if we average the two dates we get 1300 BC. Which would still mean that Minoan Crete and Celtic Britain. Would be earlier by 820 yrs.
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@PMATSOnTheMat
You posted
"With roots dating back to Persia fighting the damn spartans!!"
Yes interesting that you should mention that because the Spartans were Greek.
And when Alexander the Great with his hoplites go off to conquer Asia, what fighting art does he take with him pankration, it first enters the Olympic Games in 648 B.C, he reaches India in 326 BC.
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
@PMATSOnTheMat
"introduced ALL to the Filipinos"
Now if you’ve got a copy of The Filipino Martial Arts by Mr Inosanto Now you see all that defensive foot work, if you think I’m making this stuff up then you google The Spanish Circle
Take the Spaces out
h t t p : / / sjaqua. tripod. com / spanish . h t m
Or google Comparison of Thibault’s Circle and the Leiden Circle
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
@PMATSOnTheMat
Your find the disarms in European Books like Hans Talhoffer or Paulus Hector Mair etc. Or take a look at Dagger combat part 1 on the tube.
watch?v=F6xCpOCiEWk
Yep! I’m sure that they left no mark in all the centuries that they were there!
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
WAY before your Europeans ever picked up a sword
You know if your Filipino then I can understand that remarks but if your occidental ( And I’m not talking about the Province in the Philippines) then I find it odd!
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
@Bulllseye2012 1) Sorry to break it to you man. And this is going to be my last mess. to you!! The filipino's were training in bladed warfare long before the Europeans! Infact if you to the time to research properly you wou know this. The Europeans were so scared of the Kali men that they banned the practice of the arts and would kill them if they were caught! This is why you will see a moon or even a candle in the logo cause they were forced to train at night!
PMATSOnTheMat 8 months ago
@PMATSOnTheMat
I’ve found a more up to date, source for the dates of the development of the sword
"The sword seems to have been invented in the Central Alps during the Middle Bronze Age, and spread around the world from there."
Arms and Armour Virtual Gallery
The Pit Rivers Museum Oxford
Either way bladed metal weapons like Swords start off in Europe unless you’d care to cite other wise!
I dont think that you will some how.:)
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
@PMATSOnTheMat
"Europeans were so scared of the Kali men"
"This is why you will see a moon or even a candle in the logo cause they were forced to train at night!"
YEP! Says it all!
Smiling
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
@PMATSOnTheMat
Now we have the books that show the what the European were doing many of which were produced centuries before the Europeans ever set foot in the Philippines! Now where are the Filipino Books ? Don’t tell me these martially inferior Spanish burnt them right? :)
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
@Bulllseye2012 2) I have tons of books & video on European combat arts! And let me tell you, The Europeans are the ones took stuff from the Kali men not the other way around! And if they took a salute that they didnt understand & made their own meaning for it, so be it!! Its a shame that you have google at your fingertips and you still wont do the proper research!! FACT!! the Filipino's were practicing bladed arts long before the Europeans!! A 12 yr. old researching would know this! Good Luck!
PMATSOnTheMat 8 months ago
@PMATSOnTheMat
"The Europeans are the ones took stuff from the Kali men not the other way around!"
Citation!
"The filipino's were training in bladed warfare long before the Europeans!"
Citation!
"Kali date back as far as August 7[1] or September 8–10,[2] 480 BC!"
Citation
"Some Historian"
Citation, Who says it?
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
@PMATSOnTheMat
"And if they took a salute that they didnt understand & made their own meaning for it, so be it! Its a shame that you have google at your fingertips"
Well I tell you what! If your right, You can post the link or cite the article! Cant you then
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
He’s statement about the salute is not right, it has nothing to do with showing you were unarmed, it comes from the days of rising your visor on the European medieval helmet.
Its more likely the Hand shake shows non weapon in the hand.
Bulllseye2012 10 months ago
@Bulllseye2012 You are not correct either! The Filipino men had their own salutes and meanings long before the Spanish ever showed up..!
PMATSOnTheMat 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@PMATSOnTheMat
"Europe did not bring knife fighting to the Filipinos!!"
I didn’t say that the Spanish bought knife fighting to the Philippines , I said that much of the stuff comes out of European military cut and trust sword in combo with knife. They incorporated these techniques into their arts.
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago
"Guro Dan"
Yes he also mentions in one of his books about the death of Ferdinand Magellan at the hands of Lapu Lapu in 1521. What he doesn’t mention, is there were 49 Europeans fighting with swords, pike, halberds, knifes and a few firearms against over a 1000 men, and the only reason that we know about it is they got away!
Bulllseye2012 8 months ago