We must think very critically about everything we hear. No one knows 100 per cent what the truth is. Not even science in all its wisdom can always obtain 100% calculations for results derived from experiments to support the 'evidence'. Like every other human on earth, this man's thinking is arguably, completely flawed.
For most, I think religious people are certain (they don't just think they are - they are). What they believe with absolute certainty is probably not true. I'm just saying their certainty in it is real.
What was not said is that not only does the Catholic church say condoms are "bad," but they also claim that condom use *increases* the spread of AIDS. I don't see how any intelligent, rational and thinking human being can support that specific position.
@twistedH3L1X do you understand how a rational person could have the belief in a SUPER ALL KNOWING GOD without any other evidence other than a book claiming this as he truth?
I notice, as usual, that Sam doesn't actually express the reasoning behind the Catholic argument against condom use. Maybe he doesn't know it? Maybe he's not intelligent enough to understand it? As usual, Sam will claim it's "obvious", as he does in most of his talks, which is an out for people who can't put together a syllogism.
@patientthomist wow.. are you actually being SERIOUS here??? what will you argue, that using condoms make people more likely to HAVE SEX before marriage... lol YOU ARE A RETARD.. and i say this with the utmost respect.
@patientthomist fact is that condoms DRAMATICALLY REDUCES the spread of AIDS.. and that is all you need to know, all the reasons in the world NOT to use condoms will STILL not be enough to counter the argument which is put up time and time again AGAINST the CHURCH!! Telling people tht using condoms is SINFUL is JUST STUPID, but then again, RELIGION as a whole is just down right DUMB.
It may be the case, and Christianity has affirmed it (including the Pope), that in certain situations condom use may be the lesser of two evils, and the use of condoms hints at a partially formed conscience. Your reasoning reflects your online name -- superdelusional. I say that sincerely, since you clearly adhere to a version of materialistic pragmatism in which the good of the body is paramount -- beyond the good of the soul. That, my friend, is a lie.
@patientthomist WTF are you talking about... show me what a SOUL is please.. then we can talk :) the body is the ONE and only vesel we have here.. and it is the most important thing we can CARE for while we are alive and kicking on this planet.. you refering to the SOUL makes me giggle... lol please, show me what a soul is... :) i will gladly agree with you once you can prove that SOULS exist... :) also, what do SOULS have to do with condoms?? [moron] i doubt the SOUL can cure AIDS!!
Sounds good! Your soul is the form of who you are ... your essence ... the 'I' you refer to when you say "I have a body". (Notice that nobody says "I am my body".) You use the word vessel for your body ... not bad! Vessels by nature are designed to contain something more important than themselves. Your soul can best be described by your ability to reason (deductive logic) and your free will, not to mention conscience. Animals lack these spiritual human powers. Agreed?
If AIDS will be cured, it will be cured by the SOUL of some person (sure as hell not an animal), since the power of REASON (accessing immaterial concepts like justice, scientific variables, etc.) are always what discovers cures for anything.
First it's the tribal beliefs of many Africans why not to use Condoms, not because of a white guy in a fancy hat living in the the centre of Rome said not to. Second if you are too stupid to take your hand out of a fire when it burns then, I say too stupid to live. We could do with less idiots. Every single human that is over the age of 9 in this whole entire planet knows about Aids, and Condoms, so lets not give that much credit to the Catholics for these backward people from not using them.
@no1hoopsman I can see it clearly; Harris point is self defeating; just take your time and think about it the way you proclaim all free thinkers do ... listen to what is said by both parties, read what their basic position is, no rumours, just what the bottom line is and advise thereafter if what is said is wrong
He is an incorrect and the idea that the Pope's ban on condoms (which IS stupid btw and not something most people who are Christians agree with) would fix Africa, is stupid.
How can Religion be blamed for most of today's problems when most of today's problems are caused by the "rational and logical" institutions Humanity has set up.
Are people going to blame our economies on God? Climate Change on God? Running out of resources on God? Wars we create on God? Polluted earth on God?
2. You know very well I was talking about facets other than that.
3. The Palestinians have every right to think that the people who are illegally occupying and blockading them cynically keeping more than 80% in perpetual poverty, and who are responsible for the ethnic cleansing of millions of their fellow Palestinians based purely upon their race, as enemies.
@OrthodoxDarwinist "ethnic cleansing?? "REALLY??? lol you are seriously being misguided. I am an EX muslim and i can say from first hand experience that MUSLIM HATE JEWS, they are taught to hate them, and they will fabricate ANYTHING to make their fellow muslim hate them even more.. PALESTINE IS A FABRICATED CAUSE MADE UP BY MUSLIMS IN POWER TO SUPPRESS JEWS in the middle east, ALLAH HATES JEWS!!! this is one of the MANY reasons why i left ISLAMIC way of life!
"The continued pattern of settlement expansion in East Jerusalem combined with the forcible eviction of long-residing Palestinians is creating an intolerable situation … [and] can only be described in its cumulative impact as a form of ethnic cleansing." - UN Special Rapporteur to Palestine.
"We much expel the Arabs and take their place." - David Ben-Gurion
Why then does the UN note that over 80% of the native Palestinian population have been ethnically cleansed?
@OrthodoxDarwinist hahahahahaha... nice reply.. but you said NOTHING yourself :)
ISLAM HATES JEWS..... tell me, what was "PHILISTINE" called before it was named this way by the romans to disimilate the JEWSISH people.... lol then who took over the land in the name of allah..lol YOU ARE WRONG.
it was called ISRAEL.. and JEWISH ARABS LIVED THERE... the fact is this, MUSLIMS cannot accept that JEWS live next to then.. PALESTINE IS A MADE US "CAUSE" FOR THE MUSLIMS TO JUSTIFIY THEIR HATRED OF JEWS!
Yes, according to the United Nations 80% of the Palestinian Arabs since Israel's foundation have been ethnically cleansed.
"We must expel the Arabs and take their place." - Ben-Gurion.
What exactly do you expect the Palestinians to do when Israel is ILLEGALLY occupying and blockading their land against international law and keeping > 80% in perpetual dire poverty??
Jesus Christ. First you say it's a religious conflict (which it isn't really as the Palestinians are both Christian and Muslim and are fighting for their land, and protecting their people from further ethnic cleansing, not their religion), and then you completely contradict yourself by going on about how Israel is a secular state (which it isn't really as the influence from the geonim is huge and de jure there is no separation of synagogue and state... So no idea what you want.
@OrthodoxDarwinist - "Sam Harris is one of the biggest hypocrites around." -- Please provide us with any evidence that you are not a complete idiot. Because your comments here prove your IQ is most likely below 50.
@OrthodoxDarwinist Sorry, I know you made this comment a month ago. Just wondering if you could please provide me of the link for the video, or the reference in which Sam Harris condones Jewish terrorism. If I were a betting man I'd bet that I'll never hear from you, as you can't reference something you pulled out of your ass.
"Harris then gained some notoriety for defending Israeli government military actions in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict" - Wiki.
He is a vehement Zionist and has written in his essay (pretty shit essay for someone supposedly so educated): "Head-in-the-Sand Liberals" which attacks Liberals for not supporting Israel more.
So yea. But then again I somehow get the feeling that truth and reality might not be what you are looking for -- you want to ignore the "inconvenient facts".
@OrthodoxDarwinist you, are an idiot :) defending a people who are not VIOLENT except on the DEFENSE is not wrong in my eyes... defending a people who have [time and time again] shown themselves to be SELFISH violent people is STUPID [palestinians] .... go watch how the palestinians make the whole world BELIEVE they are VICTIMS.. ITS ALL BULLSHIT.
@cvanunen JEWISH TERRORISM does not exist.... all "terror" attacks on PALESTINE are MADE UP and FABRICATIONS of the PALESTINIAN people. they claim to be victims, without ever having really being victimized EVER... the only REAL victims are the JEWS in ISRAEL who are constantly PUT down by the whole of the muslim people WORLDWIDE, MUSLIMS HATE JEWS, THATS THAT.
@cvanunen "In The End of Faith, Harris criticizes the Jewish faith and its followers: "... Judaism is as intrinsically divisive, as ridiculous in its literalism, and as at odds with the civilizing insights of modernity as any other religion. Jewish settlers, by exercising their "freedom of belief" on contested land, are now one of the principal obstacles to peace in the Middle East."
@moopism I agree. I will add also, that commenting on certain politics between two seperate religions doesn't imply that he supports any of the dogma associated with them.
I suggest that we as humanity is seeking perfection; in perfection we wouldn't have issues like condoms..or kids dying of a curable disease.....or abusive power, oil and weapon sales being the main reasons for going to war; they wouldn't be required don't you think?
Bit of a wanker this guy really; people for thousands of years have been devoting their time to investigating a cause, a reason for being, studying our world and creation and humanities place in it and relation to it; and this clown thinks some caricature of religion as he sees it is going to make it disappear
@no1hoopsman What caricature? Catholic minister do preach the sinfulness of condoms to people who have no access to information in any way shape or form. These lies kill. This must not be respected.
@TomFynn You and he are being selective and only relating a part of the equation, that is being disingenious and lying as well. The problem is that this type of comment is what is misleading and untrue; taking a part of the whole in isolation is a bit like saying your big toe is you; nothing else is required to explain what you are, this is the analogy
@TomFynn If it's a fallacy then it isn't true is it. I suggest it is wrong to take any one part of a theory or statement in isolation. The issue of condoms is contained in the sense of a monogomous faithful marriage and pre-marital sex, in respect for the other person as well as the self.
@no1hoopsman The issue of condoms is an issue of physical well-being. Being faithful or monogamous has nothing to do with it. Stop peddling your ideologies over the health of others.
@TomFynn Isn't health contained in self respect ? I think you have no depth or understadning of reality to make the argument. The stance taken by the RC Church is one of human perfectionism; just like all women when they get married who want a faithful husband for the rest of their lives; one relationship. The actual reality we live is much less than that regrettably. You see it doesn't matter a shit what the RC Church decrees to most people; even if to their own detriment.
@no1hoopsman Human perfectionism? Probably the most inhuman stance one can take. Especially arrogant when those, that take it, are even further away from actual reality then pretty much everybody.
@TomFynn I worked in the past with a GMBH co in Iraq, also with an International Aid company, I can assure you that the supply of condoms makes very little difference because most men don't use them in actuality; it is a power thing in many countries; Africa especially in tribal areas. Even in the UK aids has risen over last 2 years among homo and heterosexual communities, all of the women who work the streets or brothels are asked for sex without condoms and many just charge and risk it
@no1hoopsman So people are stupid? No reason to withhold condoms from them. And if it’s a power thing, wouldn’t the trick be then for the RC Church to strengthen the equality of women? Oh, yes. Silly me.
@TomFynn So I suggest to you that this idea of Harris is just making him look like a bigot who has a chip on his shoulder about religion; he is the one peddling the ideaology that most governments know doesn't work; more sex education in UK has lead to increase in pre-marital sex and increase in young girls under 17 becoming pregnant; more information but less knowledge, a bit like Harris
@no1hoopsman More sex education has lead to more pregnancy? What wizard did that? So you would rather kids to remain ignorant about one of the most important and basic aspect of their lives? To withhold vital information from people need to make an informed choice is the true mark of a dictator.
@TomFynn The statistics about sex education are there for all to see; even the pro aborts are concerned about it, so there is something wrong with the education or the information structure is the point; condoms availability doesn't make any difference is the main point, even if they are handed out freely to children without their parents knowledge. How do you square that one up?
@no1hoopsman Statistics is about coincidence. Not about cause and effect. So how does information about sex cause teen pregnancy? How do you square that up?
@TomFynn It is probably about a lot of things; too much information at an early stage sometimes attracts the wrong outcome; we see this in prison with young people convicted on a petty offence then come out as hardened drug addicts with increased criminal connections; that is cause and effect. The issue about teen pregnancy is that condoms are available... so how come the problem is getting worse? Do we blame it on the RC church in Sam Harris style, or promote a "more educated" society ?
@no1hoopsman “It is probably about a lot of things” meaning: you don’t know. And as for the too much information, then transmit the information in ways that kids can understand. That’s what teaching is all about. And there really is no analogy to the prison system. Schools are for learning. Prisons are for conditioning. And not for the outside world. But for inside.
And Sam Harris is right. This is about health and knowledge. Religions are about woo.
@TomFynn The religion I know is about health and knowledge; I've just been pointing out where the knowledge transmitted by education authorities doesn't always lead to health. The analogy is in having too much early contact with the "wrong information" leads to greater criminalisation; even the prison authorities now accept a drug culture inside prison and to send a youth inside for a petty crime leads to a hardened criminal; this is why there is an age of consent
@no1hoopsman No Religion ever concerned itself with health or knowledge. Religions are about souls, afterlife and other such woo. If knowledge doesn’t always lead to health, so what? Ignorance kills even more. Again what do the prisons or the age of consent got to do with this?
@TomFynn You have a very limited knowledge about religion then Tom, this statement doesn't stand up to historical scrutiny, far too many areas where religion has an impact on our social structures today; Aquinas is used as basis for many parts of law in Europe and US, scientists today who are Priests and religious are contributing to society so your view is very limited and completely inaccurate; and very sad really to deny a reality
@no1hoopsman Most of the law in Europe and the US is based on Greek/Roman law plus a few additions from tribal laws and local customs. Yes, religion has many impacts. Two impacts especially come to mind. All scientists I know who are religious like Francis Collins, take great care to keep their faith out of their scientific work. And yes priests and religions contribute to society. Unfortunately they mostly contribute to driving society back to the middle ages.
@no1hoopsman By claiming to have access to “higher knowledge” without ever giving any hard evidence, nor thinking such evidence necessary. By promoting ignorance and blind acceptance of woo over information. By instilling people with fear in some eternal punishment and inciting them to atrocities by promising eternal rewards.
@TomFynn You best stay away from those religious people then; thankfully I've never met anyone like that in travelling all over the world and encountering people of varying faiths and cultures in the work of an aid agency.
@TomFynn Oh I know, but they don't work...seriously...it's a change of attitude in men that's required; get rid of the macho thing mainly. On the statistics, the UK ones seem to differ from the regional ones; this is an area involved in the devolution process as the news reports only last week (following on from the recent election) were raising questions as to how the actual numbers were going up but the reported figures were going down; similiar contradiction with the jobless total as well
@no1hoopsman Condoms work. If people won't use them that is no reason not to make them available. Or tell people about them. And as for regional fluctuations, well, natch. In this matter the economy is also a factor. and that is also changing from region to region. BTW, the CDC report also noted that the teen pregnancy rate was - compared to the US average - significantly higher for areas commonly known as the bible belt...
@TomFynn In terms of functionality you can say condoms work; in terms of outcome they don't, this is the point. It is mindless to concentrate on an apparent solution, when there is an underlying problem not being addressed, and this is why you can't address the issue in isolation as I said at the outset. When a child is dying every 15 seconds of a curable disease in this world of too much; there is something fundamentally flawed; and yet the response is...give out condoms so they don't have kids
@no1hoopsman Correctly applied condoms prevent pregnancy. Period. Whether they are the one and only answer is another question. As for a child dying every 15 seconds, what the hell does that has to do with it? That's because most of these are from areas in the world that don't have what the pharma companies are most interested in: money.
@TomFynn And how sad is that statement ? The reason it has to do with it is about priorities in this world, there is more effort on condom supply than food aid, and mainly for the reason you stated already
@no1hoopsman Well the world is a sad place. At least that's what the religulous tell us. Pity they generally don't much bother with improving people's lot in this life, but in the - supposedly - next.
What the worlds needs is affordable food, medicine and, yes condoms. It also needs education, free access to information and freedom of speech. Freedom of religion and also from religion a bonus.
@TomFynn In that case you applaud mostly religious organisations; they make up the (silent) majority of NGO's. I don't know of the religion that say's the world is a sad place; just the opposite; they claim Jesus came to spread the Good News don't you know; there you are, you and Jesus with the same objective
@no1hoopsman Ah yes, the silent majority. That old bull. Most religion babble on about this being that vale of tears and how we are all wretched sinners from birth. And the “Good News” were not about that this world will be better one day, but about some woo about God’s Kingdom, about the world coming to an end and us getting judged or some other such woo.
And yes in a perfect world condoms wouldn't be an issue. Because they would not be an issue of faith.
@TomFynn You've definately got it wrong about religion, must be listening to the wrong people as I've said. Condoms is about respecting the self; to be all you can be, and this is entirely about actual realisation of our humanity in it's fullness. Anyway if there is such a great thing about condoms why the problem on what the church thinks? Nobody listens to them anyway; so what's your beef ?
@no1hoopsman Nobody listens to them? They are the ones who like to boast about a billion followers. A billion followers of an organisation who's head spouts off bullshit.
@TomFynn We have a world of over 6 billion so no need to worry or feel threatened by them Tom, anyway you and them have similiar goals; care for the sick and poor, stand up for those who are tortured and mistreated, against illegal and needless war and just want to live a good life I'm sure and in doing so extend knowledge and discover your true self and maybe find love as well....this is a generalisation of a good person don't you think?
@no1hoopsman Threatened? No. Worried? Yes! And I agree, that is a generalization of a good person. You do realize however that it does not depend in any way on any kind of woo?
@TomFynn Well that's all Jesus apparently wanted most of all, a good person in those terms, so there you are, you and the Catholic church aren't as far apart as your beliefs as you thought
@no1hoopsman Nobody knows what Jesus [existence pending] wanted. At best what was recorded of him was second hand. And even C.S. Lewis had to concede that those recorded utterings of Jesus were the ramblings of a madman unless you think him divine. Which is woo. Take no thought for the 'morrow and all that. No, Jesus was all about God's Kingdom coming. Not people making the world a better place for people.
@TomFynn That doesn't follow I'm afraid, you misinterpret his sayings and parables; no point in quoting one anyway if you didn't think he existed, but ones like the good samaritan are of prime importance, it could be the good atheist you see and that could be you..woo or is it youhoo ??
@TomFynn The parable of the Good Samaritan ? You don't know it ? How can you possibly comment on Jesus and not know these important things about him and his "apparent" message in life ? If he ever existed of course, but that doesn't reduce the message to be taken from the parable; whoever wrote it
@TomFynn Well if you know the parable of the Good Samaritan, you would realise it could be the Good Atheist as opposed to the not very good religious peope who walked past. These parables put the no thought for tomorrow into context, and that is part of interpreting the bible correctly; as with any book of course
@no1hoopsman "context, and that is part of interpreting the bible correctly; as with any book of course". AKA making it up as you go along, or in short: cherry-picking.
@TomFynn The analogy was about not being prepared and things coming too early; sex education in schools may be too much information at too early a stage of development, and with all the peer pressure and media issues, there is a push towards "sexual liberation" in the young; hence increased teenage pregnancy. Similiar with prison; too young a person introduced into prison culture has similiar effect, the penalty increases the tendency towards criminality ... this was the analogy
@TomFynn The UK health authorities are stating the reality to be opposite today, not 2001. Teenage pregnancy and STD are all on the increase, as is underage drinking and smoking; this is today's figures
@TomFynn I also suggest the RC Church is about life and living it to the full; that is why they are anti abortion after all. If we are talking about well being and self respect then we have to allow for promiscuity being damaging; 99.9% of the hookers we 've worked with have no self esteem and feel forced into this type of work and issues of power ....or abuse of it.. from men are at the centre of the problem. Slavery and women trafficking is worse now than in the middle ages would you believe
@no1hoopsman The RC Church not about living life to the fullest. It’s about making their woo more important than even the most basic human impulses. Like sex. Like the control over their own bodies in question of abortion, where it’s not about saving lives but some unproven thing called a “soul”. What hookers, slavery and sex trafficking got to do with that is beyond me.
@TomFynn You've said it all Tom, if you don't know the reality then it's hard to take your comments serious. Human impulses sometimes include murder and killing; should we just accept that as a rule and a right? Abortion is acually about poverty and lack of education more than anything; the harm is does to women is not acceptable but is hidden underground, a bit like the harm done to soldiers in war and how they are cast aside by the state they defended
It is hard to reconcile the God of the old testament to the God of the new. But no one student of anthropology can deny a society- building force in faith. It might be a 50/50 influence on human brains and spirits.
What pisses me off is that this twat and people like him do not know or simply do not care what SCIENCE and EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE actually says about ANYTHING they talk about. He thinks his intuitions are SCIENTIFIC enough.
Sam harris you talk about science all them time but you never use it you fuking idiot. Fuck you, you ignorant prick and your troll army of sheep atheists who believe evrey word that comes out of your mouth because they want to believe it.
@niinja2 Awe pumpkin its okay, I know realizing you believe in a enormously large hoax is detrimental to your personal mental health, but please refrain from lashing out about it. And if the Catholic church had its way we would all be flogging ourselves! I know its hard to accept but Jesus did not come to spread peace and love to the world, he came to promote war and the destruction of family values.
"I know its hard to accept but Jesus did not come to spread peace and love to the world, he came to promote war and the destruction of family values."
well yeah it is hard to accept since you made it up...
jesus said this because people are treating their children like they are part of them, so he has come to CUT OFF this sick kind of involvement that does not let the boy be a man but a toy to his mother...
@niinja2 But sir God allows parents to treat their children as if they own them. I do not get how you can say that Jesus came to end what God started. Refer to:
"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are." Exodus 21:7. And God also condoned human sacrifice at the time for lack of obedience, of children, please refer to: Deuteronomy 21:18-21, this passage is about stoning your child that does not listen to you.
@niinja2 That is so irrational why would Jesus(god) have to come to end what he sarted? If God knows all present past and future you would think he would not make a simple mistake of telling people a some really bad things to do to their kids. You must look at this in a historical context these traits we speak of were predominant in the culture that this was going on, it is more likely that man made up these rules in the bible than a God just didnt get it right the first time.
You assume much about me, bible was written by men who had a picture of god based on what they thought god would be like.Or if they were inspired , based on the things they could understand from god.It is not a dictation. Later on the concepts change, and they write different concepts because they have different understanding of god. One could argue that god revealed himself to them in the way they could understand, or that they wrote about god by themselves as they thought is best.
@niinja2 This is all conjecture. Nothing you said can be verified.
You hypothesize about certain discrepancies contained in the Bible, and you treat those hypothesizes as face value. You create a rationalization in the face of very irrational beliefs.
Tell me something, why does god need you to stand up for him?
"Tell me something, why does god need you to stand up for him? "
he does not
"This is all conjecture. Nothing you said can be verified."
well either its made up by man about this guy God, or its written by man but inspired by god, i see no third way.
Irrational beliefs TO YOU. What is your rationalization then? That they were stupid and wrote stupid things? People wrote the bible either way, what they wrote made sense to them, today it is irational, well ofcourse continued
Thats why if we wish to understand the bible we need to look at it in the context of that time and culture, not literally.
If you read the bible, which was written in time of 1600 years you will see that the concept of God from the bible changes as the books were written even WITHIN THE BIBLE ITSELF. The god does not change, but our perception of him does. And it continued to change even till today through christian philosophy over the last 2000 years.
@niinja2 "concept of God" yes that is all God is. If God were fixed and real he would not freely change as you describe. I mean the figure has existed forever why would he change at such a rapid pace? Because he is merely a concept and you can see mans influence on him, as we grow, we change we think differently thus because God is man made and reflects us he changes as well.
"If the bible shouldn't be taken literally, then what do you make of the passages claiming the existence of god? Cherry picking is fun huh?"
where are the passages that claim that god exists? People who wrote this did not need to assume god exists because it was "evident" to them as it is evident to us today that objective truth exists.They didnt need to prove it , everyone believed it, i have my reasons to believe god exists CONTINUED
It is entirelly another toppic to believe taht even if he exists that the bible is inspired by him or her or IT.
I dont believe god exists because the "bible says so". I sometimes hardly believe that the bible was inspired by him even though i think he does exists.
@niinja2 That seems rather a stretch, more likely is that God is just like every other God we do not believe in. A man made figure to explain the unknown and to give a certain group rationalization to do what ever they'd please in the name of God. This is why God has so many human traits, this is why he seems vile and ruthless yet demands you love him, because this is the mind of a bronze age man.
"more likely is that God is just like every other God we do not believe in"
People who compare zeus with the biblical god and jesus are extremely uneducated about theology. There is no other god/man like Jesus because he is the only one who said that you should love your enemies.
"This is why God has so many human traits, this is why he seems vile and ruthless yet demands you love him, because this is the mind of a bronze age man."
@niinja2 I mean if God is all powerful how could he possibly make a mistake like telling people to stone a rebellious child at the gates of the city? And then his correction to his past mistakes with first messing up the creation of man and all his following statements is a human sacrifice of his blood? WTF? How does that make up for it? Its a completely insane story sir. Any rational human being can see this. So yes your thought is very flawed.
@niinja2 So yes sir, God does see children as property, if they can be sold or lives forfeit for disobedience to the parents. Please do not patronize me there is no actual empirical evidence and reason for God especially that of the bible. Please keep speaking so I can show you how flawed your thought is.
@niinja2 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword. For I have come to set a man 'against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one's enemies will be those of his household'". (Matthew 10:34-36)
Jesus was just crazy and wanted to destroy everything the Pagans had be working for. Hes was a bad, bad man. lols
And if anyone actually helped to the people in africa that have aids , those would be the infamous CATHOLIC MISSIONS. Condom does not save you 100% from aids but staying faitfull i.e. not FUCKING AROUND DOES.
SCIENTISTS say that the best way of preventing aids in africa is to promote one sexual partner and male circumcision, abstinency and condoms come second because people simply DO NOT USE THEM.
And to say that catholic preachers are somehow fault for the spread of aids. IF ANYONE ACTUALLY LISTENED TO THE POPE THERE WOULD BE NO AIDS IN AFRICA. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SAYS: NO NOT FUCK BEFORE YOU GET MARRIED AND STAY FAITHFUL IF YOU DO.
Aids in africa is a dirrect result of IGNORING THESE 2 DOGMAS. So grow the fuck up and take some godamn resposibility because aids is a result of PEOPLE FUKING AROUND LIKE YOU ARE MONKEYS i.e. liberal type of sexuality.
what pisses me off it taht people blame the church for aids in africa, i mean can you get more IGNORANT then this, what about non christians countries of africa? what about countries where condoms are the main way of stopping spreading aids and there is still 20%-30% of people infected with aids and for the last 20 years these figures have not changed. CONDOMS DO NOT HELP. People use them only 60% and they are 90-95% efficient, there is a possibility that they add to risky behavior.
Let him go people. Gethsemaneful is a lost cause. You have to realise that these people start from a point of presuming the factiousness of a proposition and then just try to make everything else fit. The most common tactic is to invent lies and then just keep telling them to each other. Its why Dawkins doesn't debate with creationists and why Harris calls it a form of mental illness. The best we can do is speak out in sufficient numbers & try to save the next generation from indoctrination.
I don't find it a problem to respect someones beliefs at first hand, I don't have to start mocking them instantly, if that is what respect for people is. It doesn't stop me from questioning them, and I will stop respecting the belief, and the person, when they start using taunting, or fear and threats to try and change my mind. And this always happens with religious folk. They will begin insults accompanied with ridiculous logical knots and stupidity.
"The Genocidal Stupidity Of Religion" Dude, Hitler was an atheist and so was Stalin and Mao Zedong. Try again when you get the whole "reason" thing down...
@LiberacionIgualdad It's not about doing something in the name of "x". It's about the morality behind it. Because they were atheists they together killed and 76 million in the 20th century. The Crusades/spanish Inquisistion together killed only 3.7 million. Ones belief in God or lack therof absolutely affects everthing and everyone around ye.
@Gethsemaneful What you say is so outrageous I don't even know where to start. I'm an atheist. You can think I'm the devil and that I have no morals, but the evidence suggests the contrary. I'm not perfect, but I'm far from a heartless bastard. You imply causation between atheism and the killing of people under dictatorships. I still await for evidence of that. Hitler declared himself a Catholic and talked about Jesus until his latter days. The Catholic church supported him. Check that info out.
@Gethsemaneful Also, playing the 'numbers' game is not really a good measure. First of all, because the morality of genocide doesn't change depending on HOW MANY millions you kill. You are not taking into account the total population of the 20th century compared to the one existing in the times of the crusades and the spanish inquisition. If that wasn't enough, back then, the 'holy warriors' simply didn't have the technological MEANS to kill bigger numbers of people. Not enough wood to burn them
@LiberacionIgualdad You're not the Devil, and of course you have morals. Actually, Hitler didn't declare himself Catholic.(He was born Catholic, but favoured Protestantism later on) He declared that Christ wasn't real and became anti-Christian. And the Catholic Church did not support him. The Pope even hid 200 Jews on church property when the Nazi's were in Italy for a time.
@LiberacionIgualdad The Muslims destroyed Byzantium and the Pope (who only blessed the first 2 Crusades) sent able bodies to fight them back where they belonged. (And they succeeded). As for the Spanish Inquistion, most of the persecutions were done by the State and not the Church. In fact, many would blaspheme God just to be tried by the Church instead because the Church was more merciful (and sentenced few to death).
@LiberacionIgualdad We do not see anything close to mercy with the tyrants of the 20th century. So even numbers aside, we see the potential for an atheist to get out of hand is far worse than what happens when those of a religious persuasion get "trigger happy".
@Gethsemaneful You continue with the fallacy. Show me the direct link between the lack of belief in gods and a genocidal tendency CAUSED by it, and I might pay serious attention to what you say.
Share with me the statistics showing that, say, in Sweden, because they are one of the most atheistic countries in the world, people are also the most barbaric and immoral.
Your charges against atheists demand supporting evidence.
@LiberacionIgualdad Then there is no genocidal stupidity of religion, either :) If one's beliefs have nothing to do with it. Thank you for proving my initial argument which was directed at the title and not at atheists. It's not a matter of religon or lack there of, it's just bad people being bad especially those in authority. People will use many excuses to kill each other or claim superiority. (Religion, race, economic power, etc)
@LiberacionIgualdad Just because someone being bad happens to believe in God and/or be religious, does mean religion is toxic or that all people of that religion are the same as the one who is out of line. Just like the fact that Hitler, Stalin and Mao just happened to be atheists, doesn't mean all atheists are the same. Personally, I believe doubt is a gift. It encourages people to be active and seek knowledge.
@Gethsemaneful I agree that people who believe in gods or any other supernatural entity need not be immoral, either. But again, the specific case exemplified in this video - the condemnation of condom use - is something that is CAUSED by the religious dogma behind it. The Spanish Inquisition was done in the name of god and religion. Palestinians and Israelites kill each other BECAUSE of religion.
No one's ever killed someone 'in the name of atheism'. That's a crucial difference.
@LiberacionIgualdad Well, with regards to condoms being prohibited, science backs up the Church. The use of contraceptives in marriage, for example, increases the likelyhood of divorce by 60%. Further, the number one reason AIDS is spread in Africa is because of reusing syringes and other medical tools, not by sex or lack of condom use. The Spanish Inquisistion was done because people were claiming to be Christian so they could take high positions. They betrayed Spain, basically.
@LiberacionIgualdad And the Crusades were similar to many other wars; it was about land and the expanding of empires (not religion). As I've already shown and you've stated yourself, ones beliefs aren't to blame, it's the people themselves (not atheism or religion). And it's fine to inquire and question beliefs all you want, but criticism that is not constructive is not healthy or respectful in any situation.
@ptica11 "Thou shall not kill" You're not morally justified. There are exceptions such as self defense, but descriminatory mass murder based on religion (Read: Opinion) can not be justified.
@ptica11 No. No killing of others, period. No if say for an example the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour. Before you declared was you are to determine whether you can even win the war and how many lives could be lost. If the US applied these two principals they could actually win Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. War is an absolute last resort, even with terrorists.
@Gethsemaneful My lack of belief in gods (or leprechauns or unicorns) says nothing to me about what's moral and immoral. Religious people rejoice on the fact that they supposedly 'get their morals from god'. Paraphrasing someone who already said it, there will always be bad people doing bad things. But in order to get good people to do bad things, you need brainwashing dogmas... and religions are the best at it, especially because it is taboo to criticize them. That HAS to change.
@Gethsemaneful Both Hitler and Stalin surely didn't believe in leprechauns and unicorns, and they both had a moustache. Should we conclude, then, than having a moustache, and not believing in leprechauns and unicorns is what CAUSED their actions?
That's how silly and outrageous your argument is. I, for one, need absolutely no superstition to behave morally. None.
Correlation (or coincidence?) does NOT imply causation. That's something you seem to be missing.
Since Sam Harris offered erratic rationale,he should be despised.He had no reasons just mere assertions,so what is he trying to prove?Nothing!
frankielee77 2 weeks ago
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We must think very critically about everything we hear. No one knows 100 per cent what the truth is. Not even science in all its wisdom can always obtain 100% calculations for results derived from experiments to support the 'evidence'. Like every other human on earth, this man's thinking is arguably, completely flawed.
CharlotteMaryFoster 1 month ago
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CharlotteMaryFoster 1 month ago
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For most, I think religious people are certain (they don't just think they are - they are). What they believe with absolute certainty is probably not true. I'm just saying their certainty in it is real.
mk2escortvan 3 months ago
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mk2escortvan 3 months ago
What was not said is that not only does the Catholic church say condoms are "bad," but they also claim that condom use *increases* the spread of AIDS. I don't see how any intelligent, rational and thinking human being can support that specific position.
twistedH3L1X 5 months ago
@twistedH3L1X do you understand how a rational person could have the belief in a SUPER ALL KNOWING GOD without any other evidence other than a book claiming this as he truth?
SuperDelusionist 4 months ago
@SuperDelusionist That does not address my point.
twistedH3L1X 4 months ago
I notice, as usual, that Sam doesn't actually express the reasoning behind the Catholic argument against condom use. Maybe he doesn't know it? Maybe he's not intelligent enough to understand it? As usual, Sam will claim it's "obvious", as he does in most of his talks, which is an out for people who can't put together a syllogism.
patientthomist 5 months ago
@patientthomist wow.. are you actually being SERIOUS here??? what will you argue, that using condoms make people more likely to HAVE SEX before marriage... lol YOU ARE A RETARD.. and i say this with the utmost respect.
SuperDelusionist 4 months ago
@patientthomist fact is that condoms DRAMATICALLY REDUCES the spread of AIDS.. and that is all you need to know, all the reasons in the world NOT to use condoms will STILL not be enough to counter the argument which is put up time and time again AGAINST the CHURCH!! Telling people tht using condoms is SINFUL is JUST STUPID, but then again, RELIGION as a whole is just down right DUMB.
SuperDelusionist 4 months ago
@SuperDelusionist
It may be the case, and Christianity has affirmed it (including the Pope), that in certain situations condom use may be the lesser of two evils, and the use of condoms hints at a partially formed conscience. Your reasoning reflects your online name -- superdelusional. I say that sincerely, since you clearly adhere to a version of materialistic pragmatism in which the good of the body is paramount -- beyond the good of the soul. That, my friend, is a lie.
patientthomist 4 months ago
@patientthomist WTF are you talking about... show me what a SOUL is please.. then we can talk :) the body is the ONE and only vesel we have here.. and it is the most important thing we can CARE for while we are alive and kicking on this planet.. you refering to the SOUL makes me giggle... lol please, show me what a soul is... :) i will gladly agree with you once you can prove that SOULS exist... :) also, what do SOULS have to do with condoms?? [moron] i doubt the SOUL can cure AIDS!!
SuperDelusionist 4 months ago
@SuperDelusionist
Sounds good! Your soul is the form of who you are ... your essence ... the 'I' you refer to when you say "I have a body". (Notice that nobody says "I am my body".) You use the word vessel for your body ... not bad! Vessels by nature are designed to contain something more important than themselves. Your soul can best be described by your ability to reason (deductive logic) and your free will, not to mention conscience. Animals lack these spiritual human powers. Agreed?
patientthomist 4 months ago
@SuperDelusionist
If AIDS will be cured, it will be cured by the SOUL of some person (sure as hell not an animal), since the power of REASON (accessing immaterial concepts like justice, scientific variables, etc.) are always what discovers cures for anything.
patientthomist 4 months ago
First it's the tribal beliefs of many Africans why not to use Condoms, not because of a white guy in a fancy hat living in the the centre of Rome said not to. Second if you are too stupid to take your hand out of a fire when it burns then, I say too stupid to live. We could do with less idiots. Every single human that is over the age of 9 in this whole entire planet knows about Aids, and Condoms, so lets not give that much credit to the Catholics for these backward people from not using them.
ASarcasmProduction 5 months ago
@ASarcasmProduction Youtube needs better trolls.
ShiftyWeasel 4 months ago
@ShiftyWeasel hahahahahaha... actually, youtube has enough trolls... and most of them are RELIGIOUS.
SuperDelusionist 4 months ago
The argument Harris makes on condoms is self evidently wrong, for fuck sake it is so juvenile as to make him a laughing stock.
no1hoopsman 5 months ago
@no1hoopsman WHAT?? lol you boviously pray on a daily basis. lol
SuperDelusionist 4 months ago
@SuperDelusionist You can't see it can you ?
no1hoopsman 4 months ago
@no1hoopsman I can see it clearly; Harris point is self defeating; just take your time and think about it the way you proclaim all free thinkers do ... listen to what is said by both parties, read what their basic position is, no rumours, just what the bottom line is and advise thereafter if what is said is wrong
no1hoopsman 3 months ago
He is an incorrect and the idea that the Pope's ban on condoms (which IS stupid btw and not something most people who are Christians agree with) would fix Africa, is stupid.
How can Religion be blamed for most of today's problems when most of today's problems are caused by the "rational and logical" institutions Humanity has set up.
Are people going to blame our economies on God? Climate Change on God? Running out of resources on God? Wars we create on God? Polluted earth on God?
Mithan2 5 months ago
@Mithan2 no.. but i blame your stupidity on GOD... loloh, wait, there is NO GOD, i guess that ust makes you STUPID all on your own.
SuperDelusionist 4 months ago
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Mithan2 5 months ago
You know what I think the problem is? Half the people in the world are below average. It's true, honest.
dlbattle100 6 months ago
@Pooternackle5
1. I know that.
2. You know very well I was talking about facets other than that.
3. The Palestinians have every right to think that the people who are illegally occupying and blockading them cynically keeping more than 80% in perpetual poverty, and who are responsible for the ethnic cleansing of millions of their fellow Palestinians based purely upon their race, as enemies.
4. I don't care that you think.
OrthodoxDarwinist 6 months ago
@OrthodoxDarwinist "ethnic cleansing?? "REALLY??? lol you are seriously being misguided. I am an EX muslim and i can say from first hand experience that MUSLIM HATE JEWS, they are taught to hate them, and they will fabricate ANYTHING to make their fellow muslim hate them even more.. PALESTINE IS A FABRICATED CAUSE MADE UP BY MUSLIMS IN POWER TO SUPPRESS JEWS in the middle east, ALLAH HATES JEWS!!! this is one of the MANY reasons why i left ISLAMIC way of life!
SuperDelusionist 4 months ago
@SuperDelusionist
"The continued pattern of settlement expansion in East Jerusalem combined with the forcible eviction of long-residing Palestinians is creating an intolerable situation … [and] can only be described in its cumulative impact as a form of ethnic cleansing." - UN Special Rapporteur to Palestine.
"We much expel the Arabs and take their place." - David Ben-Gurion
Why then does the UN note that over 80% of the native Palestinian population have been ethnically cleansed?
OrthodoxDarwinist 4 months ago
@OrthodoxDarwinist hahahahahaha... nice reply.. but you said NOTHING yourself :)
ISLAM HATES JEWS..... tell me, what was "PHILISTINE" called before it was named this way by the romans to disimilate the JEWSISH people.... lol then who took over the land in the name of allah..lol YOU ARE WRONG.
it was called ISRAEL.. and JEWISH ARABS LIVED THERE... the fact is this, MUSLIMS cannot accept that JEWS live next to then.. PALESTINE IS A MADE US "CAUSE" FOR THE MUSLIMS TO JUSTIFIY THEIR HATRED OF JEWS!
SuperDelusionist 4 months ago
@OrthodoxDarwinist the leader of the IRANIAN PEOPLE : "ALL JEWS are dogs and should be removed from this planet."
MUSLIM IMAM: "ALL JEWSIH POPULATIONS SHOULD BE CLEANSED FROM THIS PLANET OF OURS, the muslim people, under allah, for allah, by the power of allah"
MUSLIM RANDOM PERSON: " JEWS are FITHLY people and should have NO place on this earth which was created by allah the almighty"....
MUSLIMS HATE JEWS :) enjoy your delusion.. PALLYWOOD has a grip on your mind!!
SuperDelusionist 4 months ago
@OrthodoxDarwinist 80%... hahahabLAUGHABLE!!! the palestinians have accomplished NOHTING but HATE, and BULLSHIT :)
80% of the palestinian pop "CLEANESED" ...hahahahahahab that is BULLSHIT!!
SuperDelusionist 4 months ago
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@SuperDelusionist
Yes, according to the United Nations 80% of the Palestinian Arabs since Israel's foundation have been ethnically cleansed.
"We must expel the Arabs and take their place." - Ben-Gurion.
What exactly do you expect the Palestinians to do when Israel is ILLEGALLY occupying and blockading their land against international law and keeping > 80% in perpetual dire poverty??
Another sickeningly racist Zionist.
OrthodoxDarwinist 4 months ago
@Pooternackle5
Jesus Christ. First you say it's a religious conflict (which it isn't really as the Palestinians are both Christian and Muslim and are fighting for their land, and protecting their people from further ethnic cleansing, not their religion), and then you completely contradict yourself by going on about how Israel is a secular state (which it isn't really as the influence from the geonim is huge and de jure there is no separation of synagogue and state... So no idea what you want.
OrthodoxDarwinist 6 months ago
Sam Harris is one of the biggest hypocrites around.
According to him, terrorism is bad (but if Zionist Jews do it it's OK).
OrthodoxDarwinist 7 months ago
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@OrthodoxDarwinist - "Sam Harris is one of the biggest hypocrites around." -- Please provide us with any evidence that you are not a complete idiot. Because your comments here prove your IQ is most likely below 50.
TownCryo 6 months ago
@OrthodoxDarwinist Sorry, I know you made this comment a month ago. Just wondering if you could please provide me of the link for the video, or the reference in which Sam Harris condones Jewish terrorism. If I were a betting man I'd bet that I'll never hear from you, as you can't reference something you pulled out of your ass.
cvanunen 6 months ago 4
@cvanunen
"Harris then gained some notoriety for defending Israeli government military actions in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict" - Wiki.
He is a vehement Zionist and has written in his essay (pretty shit essay for someone supposedly so educated): "Head-in-the-Sand Liberals" which attacks Liberals for not supporting Israel more.
So yea. But then again I somehow get the feeling that truth and reality might not be what you are looking for -- you want to ignore the "inconvenient facts".
OrthodoxDarwinist 5 months ago
@OrthodoxDarwinist you, are an idiot :) defending a people who are not VIOLENT except on the DEFENSE is not wrong in my eyes... defending a people who have [time and time again] shown themselves to be SELFISH violent people is STUPID [palestinians] .... go watch how the palestinians make the whole world BELIEVE they are VICTIMS.. ITS ALL BULLSHIT.
SuperDelusionist 4 months ago
@cvanunen JEWISH TERRORISM does not exist.... all "terror" attacks on PALESTINE are MADE UP and FABRICATIONS of the PALESTINIAN people. they claim to be victims, without ever having really being victimized EVER... the only REAL victims are the JEWS in ISRAEL who are constantly PUT down by the whole of the muslim people WORLDWIDE, MUSLIMS HATE JEWS, THATS THAT.
SuperDelusionist 4 months ago
@cvanunen "In The End of Faith, Harris criticizes the Jewish faith and its followers: "... Judaism is as intrinsically divisive, as ridiculous in its literalism, and as at odds with the civilizing insights of modernity as any other religion. Jewish settlers, by exercising their "freedom of belief" on contested land, are now one of the principal obstacles to peace in the Middle East."
It doesn't sound very condoning to me.....
[edit]
moopism 1 month ago
@moopism I agree. I will add also, that commenting on certain politics between two seperate religions doesn't imply that he supports any of the dogma associated with them.
cvanunen 1 month ago
@cvanunen Well, Orthydoxy has the myopia that the single issue idiots always exhibit. It manifests as a complete blindness to reality or fairness.
moopism 1 month ago
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@OrthodoxDarwinist "Sam Harris is one of the biggest hypocrites around.
According to him, terrorism is bad (but if Zionist Jews do it it's OK)."
Provide a quote, liar.
moopism 1 month ago
Condom use = Less people but happier richer more educated = Less miserable unhappy uneducated people to brainwash
No Condom use = Big mass of unhappy poor uneducated AIDS infected people = Lots of miserable people to brainwash
It is that simple. Just like the "when you die, if you've been good you get eternal happy life"
"Ok, then I kill myself right now...."
"Wowowowow....no...erhm...suicide is a sin...keep giving me 10% of your income until you die and THEN you get the eternal happy life"
0299792458 7 months ago 12
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TomFynn 8 months ago
I suggest that we as humanity is seeking perfection; in perfection we wouldn't have issues like condoms..or kids dying of a curable disease.....or abusive power, oil and weapon sales being the main reasons for going to war; they wouldn't be required don't you think?
no1hoopsman 8 months ago
The world definitely needs more people who hold these views.
uriituw 9 months ago
Bit of a wanker this guy really; people for thousands of years have been devoting their time to investigating a cause, a reason for being, studying our world and creation and humanities place in it and relation to it; and this clown thinks some caricature of religion as he sees it is going to make it disappear
no1hoopsman 9 months ago
@no1hoopsman What caricature? Catholic minister do preach the sinfulness of condoms to people who have no access to information in any way shape or form. These lies kill. This must not be respected.
TomFynn 9 months ago
@TomFynn You and he are being selective and only relating a part of the equation, that is being disingenious and lying as well. The problem is that this type of comment is what is misleading and untrue; taking a part of the whole in isolation is a bit like saying your big toe is you; nothing else is required to explain what you are, this is the analogy
no1hoopsman 9 months ago
@no1hoopsman Do you actually have an argument or are you just hiding behind a no-true-Scotsman-fallacy?
TomFynn 9 months ago
@TomFynn If it's a fallacy then it isn't true is it. I suggest it is wrong to take any one part of a theory or statement in isolation. The issue of condoms is contained in the sense of a monogomous faithful marriage and pre-marital sex, in respect for the other person as well as the self.
no1hoopsman 9 months ago
@no1hoopsman The issue of condoms is an issue of physical well-being. Being faithful or monogamous has nothing to do with it. Stop peddling your ideologies over the health of others.
TomFynn 9 months ago
@TomFynn Isn't health contained in self respect ? I think you have no depth or understadning of reality to make the argument. The stance taken by the RC Church is one of human perfectionism; just like all women when they get married who want a faithful husband for the rest of their lives; one relationship. The actual reality we live is much less than that regrettably. You see it doesn't matter a shit what the RC Church decrees to most people; even if to their own detriment.
no1hoopsman 9 months ago
@no1hoopsman Human perfectionism? Probably the most inhuman stance one can take. Especially arrogant when those, that take it, are even further away from actual reality then pretty much everybody.
TomFynn 9 months ago
@TomFynn I worked in the past with a GMBH co in Iraq, also with an International Aid company, I can assure you that the supply of condoms makes very little difference because most men don't use them in actuality; it is a power thing in many countries; Africa especially in tribal areas. Even in the UK aids has risen over last 2 years among homo and heterosexual communities, all of the women who work the streets or brothels are asked for sex without condoms and many just charge and risk it
no1hoopsman 9 months ago
@no1hoopsman So people are stupid? No reason to withhold condoms from them. And if it’s a power thing, wouldn’t the trick be then for the RC Church to strengthen the equality of women? Oh, yes. Silly me.
TomFynn 9 months ago
@TomFynn So I suggest to you that this idea of Harris is just making him look like a bigot who has a chip on his shoulder about religion; he is the one peddling the ideaology that most governments know doesn't work; more sex education in UK has lead to increase in pre-marital sex and increase in young girls under 17 becoming pregnant; more information but less knowledge, a bit like Harris
no1hoopsman 9 months ago
@no1hoopsman More sex education has lead to more pregnancy? What wizard did that? So you would rather kids to remain ignorant about one of the most important and basic aspect of their lives? To withhold vital information from people need to make an informed choice is the true mark of a dictator.
TomFynn 9 months ago
@TomFynn The statistics about sex education are there for all to see; even the pro aborts are concerned about it, so there is something wrong with the education or the information structure is the point; condoms availability doesn't make any difference is the main point, even if they are handed out freely to children without their parents knowledge. How do you square that one up?
no1hoopsman 9 months ago
@no1hoopsman Statistics is about coincidence. Not about cause and effect. So how does information about sex cause teen pregnancy? How do you square that up?
TomFynn 9 months ago
@TomFynn It is probably about a lot of things; too much information at an early stage sometimes attracts the wrong outcome; we see this in prison with young people convicted on a petty offence then come out as hardened drug addicts with increased criminal connections; that is cause and effect. The issue about teen pregnancy is that condoms are available... so how come the problem is getting worse? Do we blame it on the RC church in Sam Harris style, or promote a "more educated" society ?
no1hoopsman 9 months ago
@no1hoopsman “It is probably about a lot of things” meaning: you don’t know. And as for the too much information, then transmit the information in ways that kids can understand. That’s what teaching is all about. And there really is no analogy to the prison system. Schools are for learning. Prisons are for conditioning. And not for the outside world. But for inside.
And Sam Harris is right. This is about health and knowledge. Religions are about woo.
TomFynn 9 months ago
@TomFynn The religion I know is about health and knowledge; I've just been pointing out where the knowledge transmitted by education authorities doesn't always lead to health. The analogy is in having too much early contact with the "wrong information" leads to greater criminalisation; even the prison authorities now accept a drug culture inside prison and to send a youth inside for a petty crime leads to a hardened criminal; this is why there is an age of consent
no1hoopsman 9 months ago
@no1hoopsman No Religion ever concerned itself with health or knowledge. Religions are about souls, afterlife and other such woo. If knowledge doesn’t always lead to health, so what? Ignorance kills even more. Again what do the prisons or the age of consent got to do with this?
TomFynn 9 months ago
@TomFynn You have a very limited knowledge about religion then Tom, this statement doesn't stand up to historical scrutiny, far too many areas where religion has an impact on our social structures today; Aquinas is used as basis for many parts of law in Europe and US, scientists today who are Priests and religious are contributing to society so your view is very limited and completely inaccurate; and very sad really to deny a reality
no1hoopsman 8 months ago
@no1hoopsman Most of the law in Europe and the US is based on Greek/Roman law plus a few additions from tribal laws and local customs. Yes, religion has many impacts. Two impacts especially come to mind. All scientists I know who are religious like Francis Collins, take great care to keep their faith out of their scientific work. And yes priests and religions contribute to society. Unfortunately they mostly contribute to driving society back to the middle ages.
TomFynn 8 months ago
@TomFynn How do they do that then Tom?
no1hoopsman 8 months ago
@no1hoopsman By claiming to have access to “higher knowledge” without ever giving any hard evidence, nor thinking such evidence necessary. By promoting ignorance and blind acceptance of woo over information. By instilling people with fear in some eternal punishment and inciting them to atrocities by promising eternal rewards.
TomFynn 8 months ago
@TomFynn You best stay away from those religious people then; thankfully I've never met anyone like that in travelling all over the world and encountering people of varying faiths and cultures in the work of an aid agency.
no1hoopsman 8 months ago
@no1hoopsman Never met those people? Good on yer. And as for the aid agencies: Keep up da good work. Seriously. Oh, and don't forget the condoms.
TomFynn 8 months ago
@TomFynn Oh I know, but they don't work...seriously...it's a change of attitude in men that's required; get rid of the macho thing mainly. On the statistics, the UK ones seem to differ from the regional ones; this is an area involved in the devolution process as the news reports only last week (following on from the recent election) were raising questions as to how the actual numbers were going up but the reported figures were going down; similiar contradiction with the jobless total as well
no1hoopsman 8 months ago
@no1hoopsman Condoms work. If people won't use them that is no reason not to make them available. Or tell people about them. And as for regional fluctuations, well, natch. In this matter the economy is also a factor. and that is also changing from region to region. BTW, the CDC report also noted that the teen pregnancy rate was - compared to the US average - significantly higher for areas commonly known as the bible belt...
TomFynn 8 months ago
@TomFynn In terms of functionality you can say condoms work; in terms of outcome they don't, this is the point. It is mindless to concentrate on an apparent solution, when there is an underlying problem not being addressed, and this is why you can't address the issue in isolation as I said at the outset. When a child is dying every 15 seconds of a curable disease in this world of too much; there is something fundamentally flawed; and yet the response is...give out condoms so they don't have kids
no1hoopsman 8 months ago
@no1hoopsman Correctly applied condoms prevent pregnancy. Period. Whether they are the one and only answer is another question. As for a child dying every 15 seconds, what the hell does that has to do with it? That's because most of these are from areas in the world that don't have what the pharma companies are most interested in: money.
TomFynn 8 months ago
@TomFynn And how sad is that statement ? The reason it has to do with it is about priorities in this world, there is more effort on condom supply than food aid, and mainly for the reason you stated already
no1hoopsman 8 months ago
@no1hoopsman Well the world is a sad place. At least that's what the religulous tell us. Pity they generally don't much bother with improving people's lot in this life, but in the - supposedly - next.
What the worlds needs is affordable food, medicine and, yes condoms. It also needs education, free access to information and freedom of speech. Freedom of religion and also from religion a bonus.
I applaud all who strive to make this a reality.
To those that just peddle their woo: Fuck off.
TomFynn 8 months ago
@TomFynn In that case you applaud mostly religious organisations; they make up the (silent) majority of NGO's. I don't know of the religion that say's the world is a sad place; just the opposite; they claim Jesus came to spread the Good News don't you know; there you are, you and Jesus with the same objective
no1hoopsman 8 months ago
@no1hoopsman Ah yes, the silent majority. That old bull. Most religion babble on about this being that vale of tears and how we are all wretched sinners from birth. And the “Good News” were not about that this world will be better one day, but about some woo about God’s Kingdom, about the world coming to an end and us getting judged or some other such woo.
And yes in a perfect world condoms wouldn't be an issue. Because they would not be an issue of faith.
TomFynn 8 months ago
@TomFynn You've definately got it wrong about religion, must be listening to the wrong people as I've said. Condoms is about respecting the self; to be all you can be, and this is entirely about actual realisation of our humanity in it's fullness. Anyway if there is such a great thing about condoms why the problem on what the church thinks? Nobody listens to them anyway; so what's your beef ?
no1hoopsman 8 months ago
@no1hoopsman Nobody listens to them? They are the ones who like to boast about a billion followers. A billion followers of an organisation who's head spouts off bullshit.
TomFynn 8 months ago
@TomFynn We have a world of over 6 billion so no need to worry or feel threatened by them Tom, anyway you and them have similiar goals; care for the sick and poor, stand up for those who are tortured and mistreated, against illegal and needless war and just want to live a good life I'm sure and in doing so extend knowledge and discover your true self and maybe find love as well....this is a generalisation of a good person don't you think?
no1hoopsman 8 months ago
@no1hoopsman Threatened? No. Worried? Yes! And I agree, that is a generalization of a good person. You do realize however that it does not depend in any way on any kind of woo?
TomFynn 8 months ago
@TomFynn Well that's all Jesus apparently wanted most of all, a good person in those terms, so there you are, you and the Catholic church aren't as far apart as your beliefs as you thought
no1hoopsman 8 months ago
@no1hoopsman Nobody knows what Jesus [existence pending] wanted. At best what was recorded of him was second hand. And even C.S. Lewis had to concede that those recorded utterings of Jesus were the ramblings of a madman unless you think him divine. Which is woo. Take no thought for the 'morrow and all that. No, Jesus was all about God's Kingdom coming. Not people making the world a better place for people.
TomFynn 8 months ago
@TomFynn That doesn't follow I'm afraid, you misinterpret his sayings and parables; no point in quoting one anyway if you didn't think he existed, but ones like the good samaritan are of prime importance, it could be the good atheist you see and that could be you..woo or is it youhoo ??
no1hoopsman 8 months ago
@no1hoopsman Congrats on the longest non sequitur ever. I don't have the slightest cue what you're on about.
TomFynn 8 months ago
@TomFynn The parable of the Good Samaritan ? You don't know it ? How can you possibly comment on Jesus and not know these important things about him and his "apparent" message in life ? If he ever existed of course, but that doesn't reduce the message to be taken from the parable; whoever wrote it
no1hoopsman 8 months ago
@no1hoopsman I know the parable of the good Samaritan. I just didn't know from you previous comment what the hell you were on about.
TomFynn 8 months ago
@TomFynn Well if you know the parable of the Good Samaritan, you would realise it could be the Good Atheist as opposed to the not very good religious peope who walked past. These parables put the no thought for tomorrow into context, and that is part of interpreting the bible correctly; as with any book of course
no1hoopsman 8 months ago
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@no1hoopsman "context, and that is part of interpreting the bible correctly; as with any book of course". AKA making it up as you go along, or in short: cherry-picking.
TomFynn 8 months ago
@TomFynn The analogy was about not being prepared and things coming too early; sex education in schools may be too much information at too early a stage of development, and with all the peer pressure and media issues, there is a push towards "sexual liberation" in the young; hence increased teenage pregnancy. Similiar with prison; too young a person introduced into prison culture has similiar effect, the penalty increases the tendency towards criminality ... this was the analogy
no1hoopsman 8 months ago
@no1hoopsman “Societal acceptance of sexual activity among young people, combined with comprehensive
and balanced information about sexuality and clear expectations about commitment
and prevention of childbearing and STDs within teenage relationships, are hallmarks
of countries with low levels of adolescent pregnancy, childbearing and STDs.”
Teenage Sexual and Reproductive Behavior in Developed Countries November 2001, The Alan Guttmacher Institute
TomFynn 8 months ago
@TomFynn The UK health authorities are stating the reality to be opposite today, not 2001. Teenage pregnancy and STD are all on the increase, as is underage drinking and smoking; this is today's figures
no1hoopsman 8 months ago
@no1hoopsman
From the UK department of health. “Teenage Pregnancy Strategy: Beyond 2010”
“Teenage pregnancy is a cause of health inequalities and child poverty.”
“Between 1998 and 2008, the under 18 conception rate has fallen from 46.6
per thousand women aged 15 to 17 in 1998 to 40.4 per thousand in 2008”
TomFynn 8 months ago
@no1hoopsman
From the CDC: “NCHS Data Brief ■ No. 58 ■ February 2011”
“ The U.S. birth rate for teenagers in 2009 was the lowest it has ever • been in the nearly 70 years for which national data are available”
“The rate was 39.1 births per 1,000 females aged 15–19 years”
TomFynn 8 months ago
@TomFynn I also suggest the RC Church is about life and living it to the full; that is why they are anti abortion after all. If we are talking about well being and self respect then we have to allow for promiscuity being damaging; 99.9% of the hookers we 've worked with have no self esteem and feel forced into this type of work and issues of power ....or abuse of it.. from men are at the centre of the problem. Slavery and women trafficking is worse now than in the middle ages would you believe
no1hoopsman 9 months ago
@no1hoopsman The RC Church not about living life to the fullest. It’s about making their woo more important than even the most basic human impulses. Like sex. Like the control over their own bodies in question of abortion, where it’s not about saving lives but some unproven thing called a “soul”. What hookers, slavery and sex trafficking got to do with that is beyond me.
TomFynn 9 months ago
@TomFynn You've said it all Tom, if you don't know the reality then it's hard to take your comments serious. Human impulses sometimes include murder and killing; should we just accept that as a rule and a right? Abortion is acually about poverty and lack of education more than anything; the harm is does to women is not acceptable but is hidden underground, a bit like the harm done to soldiers in war and how they are cast aside by the state they defended
no1hoopsman 9 months ago
@no1hoopsman WTF?
TomFynn 9 months ago
GOD IS STUCK IN THE INTERNET!!!
CatFacedKillers 10 months ago
It is hard to reconcile the God of the old testament to the God of the new. But no one student of anthropology can deny a society- building force in faith. It might be a 50/50 influence on human brains and spirits.
2009riddleywalker 11 months ago
Genocidal stupidity?
fourth month abortion you FUKING HYPOCRITE
niinja2 1 year ago
What pisses me off is that this twat and people like him do not know or simply do not care what SCIENCE and EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE actually says about ANYTHING they talk about. He thinks his intuitions are SCIENTIFIC enough.
Sam harris you talk about science all them time but you never use it you fuking idiot. Fuck you, you ignorant prick and your troll army of sheep atheists who believe evrey word that comes out of your mouth because they want to believe it.
niinja2 1 year ago
@niinja2 Awe pumpkin its okay, I know realizing you believe in a enormously large hoax is detrimental to your personal mental health, but please refrain from lashing out about it. And if the Catholic church had its way we would all be flogging ourselves! I know its hard to accept but Jesus did not come to spread peace and love to the world, he came to promote war and the destruction of family values.
CtheWolfe 1 year ago
@CtheWolfe
"I know its hard to accept but Jesus did not come to spread peace and love to the world, he came to promote war and the destruction of family values."
well yeah it is hard to accept since you made it up...
jesus said this because people are treating their children like they are part of them, so he has come to CUT OFF this sick kind of involvement that does not let the boy be a man but a toy to his mother...
but yeah jesus is all against family.
niinja2 1 year ago
@niinja2 But sir God allows parents to treat their children as if they own them. I do not get how you can say that Jesus came to end what God started. Refer to:
"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are." Exodus 21:7. And God also condoned human sacrifice at the time for lack of obedience, of children, please refer to: Deuteronomy 21:18-21, this passage is about stoning your child that does not listen to you.
CtheWolfe 1 year ago
@CtheWolfe
"But sir God allows parents to treat their children as if they own them"
omg omg what are we going to do????
"I do not get how you can say that Jesus came to end what God started. Refer to:"
did i say that?
niinja2 1 year ago
@niinja2 That is so irrational why would Jesus(god) have to come to end what he sarted? If God knows all present past and future you would think he would not make a simple mistake of telling people a some really bad things to do to their kids. You must look at this in a historical context these traits we speak of were predominant in the culture that this was going on, it is more likely that man made up these rules in the bible than a God just didnt get it right the first time.
CtheWolfe 1 year ago
@CtheWolfe
You assume much about me, bible was written by men who had a picture of god based on what they thought god would be like.Or if they were inspired , based on the things they could understand from god.It is not a dictation. Later on the concepts change, and they write different concepts because they have different understanding of god. One could argue that god revealed himself to them in the way they could understand, or that they wrote about god by themselves as they thought is best.
niinja2 1 year ago
@niinja2 This is all conjecture. Nothing you said can be verified.
You hypothesize about certain discrepancies contained in the Bible, and you treat those hypothesizes as face value. You create a rationalization in the face of very irrational beliefs.
Tell me something, why does god need you to stand up for him?
Asganoth 1 year ago
@Asganoth
"Tell me something, why does god need you to stand up for him? "
he does not
"This is all conjecture. Nothing you said can be verified."
well either its made up by man about this guy God, or its written by man but inspired by god, i see no third way.
Irrational beliefs TO YOU. What is your rationalization then? That they were stupid and wrote stupid things? People wrote the bible either way, what they wrote made sense to them, today it is irational, well ofcourse continued
niinja2 1 year ago
@niinja2
Thats why if we wish to understand the bible we need to look at it in the context of that time and culture, not literally.
If you read the bible, which was written in time of 1600 years you will see that the concept of God from the bible changes as the books were written even WITHIN THE BIBLE ITSELF. The god does not change, but our perception of him does. And it continued to change even till today through christian philosophy over the last 2000 years.
niinja2 1 year ago
@niinja2 "concept of God" yes that is all God is. If God were fixed and real he would not freely change as you describe. I mean the figure has existed forever why would he change at such a rapid pace? Because he is merely a concept and you can see mans influence on him, as we grow, we change we think differently thus because God is man made and reflects us he changes as well.
CtheWolfe 1 year ago
@CtheWolfe
"If God were fixed and real he would not freely change as you describe."
It is not he that changes just as the world around us does not change, it is our perception of him and the physical world.
"I mean the figure has existed forever why would he change at such a rapid pace?"
i think the concept of god is changing to slowly.
"as we grow, we change we think differently thus because God is man made and reflects us he changes as well. "
yes and no
niinja2 1 year ago
@niinja2 If the bible shouldn't be taken literally, then what do you make of the passages claiming the existence of god? Cherry picking is fun huh?
Asganoth 1 year ago
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@Asganoth
"If the bible shouldn't be taken literally, then what do you make of the passages claiming the existence of god? Cherry picking is fun huh?"
where are the passages that claim that god exists? People who wrote this did not need to assume god exists because it was "evident" to them as it is evident to us today that objective truth exists.They didnt need to prove it , everyone believed it, i have my reasons to believe god exists CONTINUED
niinja2 1 year ago
@Asganoth
continued:
It is entirelly another toppic to believe taht even if he exists that the bible is inspired by him or her or IT.
I dont believe god exists because the "bible says so". I sometimes hardly believe that the bible was inspired by him even though i think he does exists.
niinja2 1 year ago
@niinja2 That seems rather a stretch, more likely is that God is just like every other God we do not believe in. A man made figure to explain the unknown and to give a certain group rationalization to do what ever they'd please in the name of God. This is why God has so many human traits, this is why he seems vile and ruthless yet demands you love him, because this is the mind of a bronze age man.
CtheWolfe 1 year ago
@CtheWolfe
"more likely is that God is just like every other God we do not believe in"
People who compare zeus with the biblical god and jesus are extremely uneducated about theology. There is no other god/man like Jesus because he is the only one who said that you should love your enemies.
"This is why God has so many human traits, this is why he seems vile and ruthless yet demands you love him, because this is the mind of a bronze age man."
i agree he resembles a man.
niinja2 1 year ago
@niinja2 I mean if God is all powerful how could he possibly make a mistake like telling people to stone a rebellious child at the gates of the city? And then his correction to his past mistakes with first messing up the creation of man and all his following statements is a human sacrifice of his blood? WTF? How does that make up for it? Its a completely insane story sir. Any rational human being can see this. So yes your thought is very flawed.
CtheWolfe 1 year ago
@niinja2 So yes sir, God does see children as property, if they can be sold or lives forfeit for disobedience to the parents. Please do not patronize me there is no actual empirical evidence and reason for God especially that of the bible. Please keep speaking so I can show you how flawed your thought is.
CtheWolfe 1 year ago
@CtheWolfe
"So yes sir, God does see children as property"
CONTEXT , CULTURE, JESUS OVER OT
"Please do not patronize me"
calm down kid, you have alot to learn
"Please keep speaking so I can show you how flawed your thought is."
flawed flawed flawed
niinja2 1 year ago
@niinja2 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword. For I have come to set a man 'against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one's enemies will be those of his household'". (Matthew 10:34-36)
Jesus was just crazy and wanted to destroy everything the Pagans had be working for. Hes was a bad, bad man. lols
CtheWolfe 1 year ago
@CtheWolfe
bad bad man
lol
i tell you what
ever heard of CONTEXT, no? didnt think so.
niinja2 1 year ago
@CtheWolfe
"Jesus was just crazy and wanted to destroy everything the Pagans had be working for. Hes was a bad, bad man. lols"
not just crazy but FUCK NUTS CRAZY, all those human sacrifice pagans have been working for DAMN HIM
"I know realizing you believe in a enormously large hoax is detrimental to your personal mental health, but please refrain from lashing out about it."
Well you know we all live in delusions but mine are at least shaped by ACTUAL EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE AND REASON
niinja2 1 year ago
And if anyone actually helped to the people in africa that have aids , those would be the infamous CATHOLIC MISSIONS. Condom does not save you 100% from aids but staying faitfull i.e. not FUCKING AROUND DOES.
SCIENTISTS say that the best way of preventing aids in africa is to promote one sexual partner and male circumcision, abstinency and condoms come second because people simply DO NOT USE THEM.
niinja2 1 year ago
And to say that catholic preachers are somehow fault for the spread of aids. IF ANYONE ACTUALLY LISTENED TO THE POPE THERE WOULD BE NO AIDS IN AFRICA. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SAYS: NO NOT FUCK BEFORE YOU GET MARRIED AND STAY FAITHFUL IF YOU DO.
Aids in africa is a dirrect result of IGNORING THESE 2 DOGMAS. So grow the fuck up and take some godamn resposibility because aids is a result of PEOPLE FUKING AROUND LIKE YOU ARE MONKEYS i.e. liberal type of sexuality.
You fought for it, now you have it.
niinja2 1 year ago
what pisses me off it taht people blame the church for aids in africa, i mean can you get more IGNORANT then this, what about non christians countries of africa? what about countries where condoms are the main way of stopping spreading aids and there is still 20%-30% of people infected with aids and for the last 20 years these figures have not changed. CONDOMS DO NOT HELP. People use them only 60% and they are 90-95% efficient, there is a possibility that they add to risky behavior.
niinja2 1 year ago
Atlantis is a good example of Poseidon's total ass kickery
bringonthewrath 1 year ago 13
Respect a pedophile ?? I dont respect the priest that do this or mohamid. They are both immoral.
MrJohnnyrace 1 year ago
Let him go people. Gethsemaneful is a lost cause. You have to realise that these people start from a point of presuming the factiousness of a proposition and then just try to make everything else fit. The most common tactic is to invent lies and then just keep telling them to each other. Its why Dawkins doesn't debate with creationists and why Harris calls it a form of mental illness. The best we can do is speak out in sufficient numbers & try to save the next generation from indoctrination.
flyingb09 1 year ago
Well, I think of it this way.
I don't find it a problem to respect someones beliefs at first hand, I don't have to start mocking them instantly, if that is what respect for people is. It doesn't stop me from questioning them, and I will stop respecting the belief, and the person, when they start using taunting, or fear and threats to try and change my mind. And this always happens with religious folk. They will begin insults accompanied with ridiculous logical knots and stupidity.
Kan2209 1 year ago
"The Genocidal Stupidity Of Religion" Dude, Hitler was an atheist and so was Stalin and Mao Zedong. Try again when you get the whole "reason" thing down...
Gethsemaneful 1 year ago
@Gethsemaneful So what? They didn't kill in the name of 'atheism', so... come again?
LiberacionIgualdad 1 year ago
@LiberacionIgualdad It's not about doing something in the name of "x". It's about the morality behind it. Because they were atheists they together killed and 76 million in the 20th century. The Crusades/spanish Inquisistion together killed only 3.7 million. Ones belief in God or lack therof absolutely affects everthing and everyone around ye.
Gethsemaneful 1 year ago
@Gethsemaneful What you say is so outrageous I don't even know where to start. I'm an atheist. You can think I'm the devil and that I have no morals, but the evidence suggests the contrary. I'm not perfect, but I'm far from a heartless bastard. You imply causation between atheism and the killing of people under dictatorships. I still await for evidence of that. Hitler declared himself a Catholic and talked about Jesus until his latter days. The Catholic church supported him. Check that info out.
LiberacionIgualdad 1 year ago
@Gethsemaneful Also, playing the 'numbers' game is not really a good measure. First of all, because the morality of genocide doesn't change depending on HOW MANY millions you kill. You are not taking into account the total population of the 20th century compared to the one existing in the times of the crusades and the spanish inquisition. If that wasn't enough, back then, the 'holy warriors' simply didn't have the technological MEANS to kill bigger numbers of people. Not enough wood to burn them
LiberacionIgualdad 1 year ago
@LiberacionIgualdad You're not the Devil, and of course you have morals. Actually, Hitler didn't declare himself Catholic.(He was born Catholic, but favoured Protestantism later on) He declared that Christ wasn't real and became anti-Christian. And the Catholic Church did not support him. The Pope even hid 200 Jews on church property when the Nazi's were in Italy for a time.
Gethsemaneful 1 year ago
@LiberacionIgualdad The Muslims destroyed Byzantium and the Pope (who only blessed the first 2 Crusades) sent able bodies to fight them back where they belonged. (And they succeeded). As for the Spanish Inquistion, most of the persecutions were done by the State and not the Church. In fact, many would blaspheme God just to be tried by the Church instead because the Church was more merciful (and sentenced few to death).
Gethsemaneful 1 year ago
@LiberacionIgualdad We do not see anything close to mercy with the tyrants of the 20th century. So even numbers aside, we see the potential for an atheist to get out of hand is far worse than what happens when those of a religious persuasion get "trigger happy".
Gethsemaneful 1 year ago
@Gethsemaneful You continue with the fallacy. Show me the direct link between the lack of belief in gods and a genocidal tendency CAUSED by it, and I might pay serious attention to what you say.
Share with me the statistics showing that, say, in Sweden, because they are one of the most atheistic countries in the world, people are also the most barbaric and immoral.
Your charges against atheists demand supporting evidence.
LiberacionIgualdad 1 year ago
@LiberacionIgualdad Then there is no genocidal stupidity of religion, either :) If one's beliefs have nothing to do with it. Thank you for proving my initial argument which was directed at the title and not at atheists. It's not a matter of religon or lack there of, it's just bad people being bad especially those in authority. People will use many excuses to kill each other or claim superiority. (Religion, race, economic power, etc)
Gethsemaneful 1 year ago
@LiberacionIgualdad Just because someone being bad happens to believe in God and/or be religious, does mean religion is toxic or that all people of that religion are the same as the one who is out of line. Just like the fact that Hitler, Stalin and Mao just happened to be atheists, doesn't mean all atheists are the same. Personally, I believe doubt is a gift. It encourages people to be active and seek knowledge.
Gethsemaneful 1 year ago
@Gethsemaneful I agree that people who believe in gods or any other supernatural entity need not be immoral, either. But again, the specific case exemplified in this video - the condemnation of condom use - is something that is CAUSED by the religious dogma behind it. The Spanish Inquisition was done in the name of god and religion. Palestinians and Israelites kill each other BECAUSE of religion.
No one's ever killed someone 'in the name of atheism'. That's a crucial difference.
LiberacionIgualdad 1 year ago
@LiberacionIgualdad Well, with regards to condoms being prohibited, science backs up the Church. The use of contraceptives in marriage, for example, increases the likelyhood of divorce by 60%. Further, the number one reason AIDS is spread in Africa is because of reusing syringes and other medical tools, not by sex or lack of condom use. The Spanish Inquisistion was done because people were claiming to be Christian so they could take high positions. They betrayed Spain, basically.
Gethsemaneful 1 year ago
@LiberacionIgualdad And the Crusades were similar to many other wars; it was about land and the expanding of empires (not religion). As I've already shown and you've stated yourself, ones beliefs aren't to blame, it's the people themselves (not atheism or religion). And it's fine to inquire and question beliefs all you want, but criticism that is not constructive is not healthy or respectful in any situation.
Gethsemaneful 1 year ago
@Gethsemaneful
i believe in killing all religionists and believe to have a mandate from the almighty god
i am morally justified?
god talks to me through a burning bush
ptica11 1 year ago
@ptica11 "Thou shall not kill" You're not morally justified. There are exceptions such as self defense, but descriminatory mass murder based on religion (Read: Opinion) can not be justified.
Gethsemaneful 1 year ago
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ptica11 1 year ago
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@Gethsemaneful
so this clusterfuck monster god of OT should be ousted for ordering mass genocide?
ptica11 1 year ago
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@Gethsemaneful
so this clusterfuck monster god of OT should be ousted for ordering mass genocide?
ptica11 1 year ago
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@Gethsemaneful
so this clucterfuck god of OT should be ousted for breaking his own 'law' and ordering genocide?
ptica11 1 year ago
@Gethseman
so killing infidels do fall in that category
ptica11 1 year ago
@ptica11 No. No killing of others, period. No if say for an example the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour. Before you declared was you are to determine whether you can even win the war and how many lives could be lost. If the US applied these two principals they could actually win Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. War is an absolute last resort, even with terrorists.
Gethsemaneful 1 year ago
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@Gethsemaneful "but descriminatory mass murder based on religion (Read: Opinion) can not be justified."
So how do you justify the actions of Moses?
byteresistor 1 year ago
@Gethsemaneful My lack of belief in gods (or leprechauns or unicorns) says nothing to me about what's moral and immoral. Religious people rejoice on the fact that they supposedly 'get their morals from god'. Paraphrasing someone who already said it, there will always be bad people doing bad things. But in order to get good people to do bad things, you need brainwashing dogmas... and religions are the best at it, especially because it is taboo to criticize them. That HAS to change.
Regards.
LiberacionIgualdad 1 year ago
@Gethsemaneful Both Hitler and Stalin surely didn't believe in leprechauns and unicorns, and they both had a moustache. Should we conclude, then, than having a moustache, and not believing in leprechauns and unicorns is what CAUSED their actions?
That's how silly and outrageous your argument is. I, for one, need absolutely no superstition to behave morally. None.
Correlation (or coincidence?) does NOT imply causation. That's something you seem to be missing.
LiberacionIgualdad 1 year ago
Great Cthulhu, if you exist, strike this heretic down!!!
jackkoffin1 1 year ago