#114 ICE mods for 100% HHO, Phase 1, part 2 of 2

[kassenz]

Water power is the future. But, You might want to bookmark this - watch when you come back in a year and this movie is no longer here. all my water powered favs have been disappearing. My facebook posts and links are gone now too. There is an water coversion inventor in the phillipenes that says the World bank is preventing alt fuel development to secure the price of petrol products. You do know what happened to the US inventor, Stanley A. Meyer after he posted on youtube...

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@kassenz Power in numbers, my friend. Never forget... WE OUTNUMBER THEM!

[saharahottie]

very instructive video, thanks for this!(:

[onetoughtechie]

why not put a solenoid on the hho line and time that?

[FiniteTuning]

Nice video, as was the first part. But where is the conclusion? As for timing adjustment however, just move the coil on an adjustable plate, not the woodruf key or the flywheel. You can make a plate the same thickness as the washers you use to space the recoil assembly with slotted channels for the coil to slide, solve two issues using one piece. Just my thoughts.

Thank you for the vid.

[dacsco]

Excellent explanation. This is the kind of videos needed to achieve petro-independence.

[mahammadabba]

Wow, using the cycle of water/seperating water/combining water without any external energy input AND drawing energy from that closed system is a perpetual motion machine. You have proved all non-atomic physics wrong. And it happened in a garage by someone without a formal education. Keep up the good work.

[CaptainD983102]

I am currently building a ' budget ' hho using household items. Canned food lids and bottoms and mayo or dry roasted peanut plastic jars with all hho assemblies on the lid with the jar as liquid reservoir . My only monetary outlay will be the nylon center mounting rod and washers plus assorted electrical connections and 12 inch J-hooks [ 2 each ] per unit built. It will help if the lid is the same size [ or close ] as the reservoir . It takes a while since my only canned goods are tomatoes.

[dacsco]

@CaptainD983102 I used thick plastic hangers, They are about 7/16" in diameter and then tapped the ends to 3/8" -16. worked great. I dont have funds for all this fun stuff either. Hope this helps.

[CaptainD983102]

Zero , I've been watching and may I make a suggestion to prove hho power ? Attatch a generator to the engine top , above the recoil pull-cord and use that to power your hho generator. If needed , you could install a second and a third , even a fourth [ small ] hho unit until you get enough hho to run the lawnmower on water alone.Also might I suggest using human urine as hho liquid.I know it would be unsavory for most but the electrolite is already in there and as we already know it is sterile.

[MrJetjoe]

at top center ex. the ex. valve is closed.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Figure on 30LPM/Liter of engine displacement just to make it idle. Unless, of course, you ask Fast Freddie. ;-)

[lothre]

Hello Zero, I really appreciate your endeavors and videos of your results and ideas. Question for you that i have not been able to find an answer for, and i have a feeling you can. What do you think you need to produce in LPM of HHO to sustain an ICE per liter of engine displacement? for a 4 stroke engine on 100% HHO with timing adjusted of course.

thank you kindly, I look forward to your future projects.

[AndrewChan84]

I ran a carburated engine with only HHO for 3 seconds before it stalled. I guess you need a 40-60 litre/per minute HHO generation rate to fully run a car. That calls in for overunity, which can be acheive using sharp 2000V pulse @ 48KHz using IGBT high voltage transistors.

[mbdamnit]

TWO CAMERAS ONE WIDE ONE CLOSE UP! :)

[harryfodder]

The only mechanical way is to use a reducer gear which will make it pretty bulky and one more piece to go wrong. I think a better way would be to use a micro controller board with a hall sensor. That way you can fine tune spark timing.

The work you're doing is great. Thanks for sharing!

[maceblackhammer]

Hey Zero...why not just remove the magnet on the side of the flywheel you don't want firing? Sorry if I'm late to the party.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

1) It will put it out of balance.

2) Then there will be no spark at all.

[commando7144]

thx i didnt know the newer small engines sparked like that unlike the old points and condenser engines sparking only on the power stroke

[lazzer408]

Use an old Techumsa. They have points under the flywheel, you can retard the timing. Or use a Kohler motor. They run the points off the camshaft. No wasted spark. For Briggs, look at gokarting catalogs. Find an advance key and put it in backwards. That will retard the timing as well.

Your self conscience too. Get over it. Don't explain yourself. Fuk them.

[lazzer408]

Why not just retard the cam? Then your valve is shut.

[richgreenllc]

Zero: Most all the major conversion work is done by selecting a small engine that was designed with a pto shaft (snow blowers and rotto tilers), this shaft is just a cam shaft extension with a pulley on it. Just remove the beaker lobe, points, or pickup from under the flywheel and move it to this pto shaft, the mag can stay on the flywheel, then make some sort of cover. WaLa the second or waste spark is gone.

[richgreenllc]

Zero: I'd like to clear up something. In the early 1900's while designing these small engines, manufactures didn't care or even know about pollution, timing off the crank was just simpler to do and the second spark was of no concern with gasoline. The word waste spark was coined in the late 70's and early 80's as a marketing strategy when pollution became a concern, while the timing design remained the same as designed in the early 1900's.

[richgreenllc]

Zero: Why are you and most everone else letting ambient air enter the intake while trying to run an engine on 100% Hydroxy? The oxygen/hydrogen mix from electrolyze is sufficient with out adding more air... Hence the need for a bubbler... Only an engine running on 100% hydrogen needs ambient air added... Hence no bubbler is needed...

[wh333t]

If you run a carbeurated motor do you still need to trick an o2 sensor?

[Signzit]

Zero, have you seen Roy McAlister"s Fundamentals?

Well worth your time sir.

/watch?v=hFifFR-4C28

[ms2duck]

The burn time of gasoline is constant, the piston speed is not. Thus the need for advance spark timing.

Some fuels burn very slow, say like nitromethane,.. which requires up to 90 degrees total advance at higher RPMs (8500+) just to give enough time for combustion pressures to build. That's just one example.

Typically, the mixture in a gasoline engine is burned by approx 70 degrees ATDC. Ideally, peak cylinder pressure should occur at somewhere around 18-25 degrees ATDC.

[minde4000]

About spark timing. In my opinion 5-10 degrees past TDC would be ideal since HHO combustion peak reached some 320 times faster the petroleum gas. Let's think: petroleum gas combustion peak is reached somewhere at 5-10 deg past TDC anyway even tho it was ignited some 10-20 deg before TDC and all because petroleum burns much slower. Am I thinking right here? Tnx

[AndrossUT]

just build a simple STSP switch on the intake valve, so it can only spark when the valve is closed, effective and simple.

[gotcharunen]

Zero, Did you check to see at what degree of rotation the intake valve starts to open? Some manufactures setup the cam to start opening intake the valve a few degrees ATDC to draw a slight vacuum in the cylinder to facilitate a higher velocity air flow over the venturi in the carb. By doing this they can use smaller carb bores and jets. This is done to achieve better fuel economy.

If this the case on your motor, you shouldn't need to worry about the waste spark

[ZeroFossilFuel]

I did check. It starts BTDC.

[bobbypatty1]

Same idea as other's comments of easier way. On off switch from hot lead of ignition. Cam-finger-or whatever just before it fires second time will be off. Next revolution just before fire, cam-finger-whatever, (lots of ways to hit switch. Can even be a solinoid electricaly tripped), hits switch to on. Make it simple and durable.

Thanks for sharring!!

Bobby G.

[waynedavisband]

add a reed switch to the engine housing by the fly wheel fan blades put a magnet on the fan blade the represents top dead center hook the reed switch up to your condenser and have the reed switch fire the coil done all but valve lash hope this helps

[john29302]

very useful info and i did read your faq and designs, and i remember you had a a car that got 20% mpg gain...cant find it..what results were acheived on a car...or one that runs on a car period. somewhere in the world is a real hho car

[ZeroFossilFuel]

But obviously the prospect has captured your interest. Why else would you waste so much time trying to shoot it down?

[TheHermeticAlchemist]

with the least amount of effort to make a vehicle run on pure HHO like this grass mower would be a carborated engine like an all American muscle car. you should look up myth busters and HHO. but you still need to add power elsewhere to generate enough HHO to power the engine...

[harveyeaston]

ok. im trying to sort it out: most small, low performance engines, use fixed ignition timeing. no automatic advancing timeing distributor, or computer drivin algorythems. I'm no genius, and i'm sure theres someone out there that can work our how to set ignition timeing to only fire when crank shaft, and cam shaft are in certain position. ( maybe the answer is that simple)

[ms2duck]

The spark plug electrode could be somewhat shielded and relocated slightly up and out of the combustion chamber by installing one of those plug non-fouler inserts..

ht tp : // i21*photobucket*com/albums/b27­3/focaljet/non-fouler%20o2chea­t/1*jpg

Maybe this could help to stop waste spark backfire during the valve overlap period?..

[harveyeaston]

I love this! I have my own little experiment in my head. I want to try leaving the carburator on, drill a 1/32 hold into the venturi after the jet, and regulate air volume with the carburator, but keep max hho going in. Maybe I can keep it running by keeping a higher percentage of hho in the combustion chamber.

[harveyeaston]

Just thinking that you could easily make a homebrew electronic ignition that is based on a nor-gate. When both lobes of the cam are at max, it sends current through a transistor to ground the coil.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

True, but you still need a way to mechanically detect 1/2 crankshaft rotations.

[m3sca1]

i think the simplest approach would be an electronic circuit that read 2 pulses and only fired on one of them.

and had an adjustable delay,so that no changes need be made machanically.

[marthale7]

This has been done. I have seen Roy Mcalusters videos on hydrogen, and he points to such a device. The advantage of that device is you can adjust to each type of fuel you are using.

[m3sca1]

thanx for that,any idea where i can find a schematic?

[marthale7]

No, but it was one of the videos that he modifies a small gas engine, he adds this device to it. I believe it is a device you can buy. One of the first in the hydrogen series he does.

[askmeHHOw]

Also, I beleave on that engine, the points run off a lobe on the crank and not the flywheel. An offset FW key will not give you the responce your looking for.

Stay focused.

[shopken1]

Idea #1 install a coil without an internal pickup. Make a slotted bracket and place a pickup coil onto it, locating it approx where the pickup sat on the oem coil. Timing can now be adjusted with the movement of the bracket.

Idea #2 install GM TBI system and pcm. Wire coil and pickup into GM module. Map sensor will advance to highest vacuum/knock sensor stop detonation. Injector can control HHO. Cheap parts & programing sofware available on the net for TBI proms allowing PC programing.

[elvisorme]

you are my hero!! I am so happy that you were born and i love your sense of hummer.

[greener99]

If you can retard the timing past TDC that "waste" spake might no longer be an issue Zero, and you solve both problems at once. You may find that retarding the time that far may be simpler by machinging a new groove in the flywheel itself, thus changing the sensor position. Good luck, thanks for all your work.

[rthefish]

The Good Lord made only so many perfect heads, then he had to put hair on the rest!

[ms2duck]

Making the intake valve clearance greater, you can effectively, slightly, retard the cam timing. The cam will now rotate more before it starts to open the valve. The cam is half rotation of the crank, ign timing adj experiment window can be doubled. A degree wheel like performance engine builders use will allow you get precise engine degree measurements & accurately locate TDC on the crank and cam. Without knowing exact TDC, it will be hard to get it right.

[ms2duck]

Correction: The intake valve will have a shorter opening duration when the clearence is increased, thus, it's timing will be altered slightly. It will open later, and close earlier.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

That's not a bad idea. Very easy to do on an OHV ICE. It might make a slightly excessive ticking noise but who cares?

[ms2duck]

Although not as cheap, another idea would be to have the camshaft intake lobe reground to the specs you're seeking by a machine shop that caters to racing go-cart engine builders.

About the flywheel.. It also serves as a balancer for the reciprocating assembly (crank, rod and piston). If you change it's position, you will most likely encounter heavy vibrations during operation. Placing the ignition pick-up assy on a slotted plate and adjusting it that way may the way to go. Just a thought.

[keileencom]

Hi Zero... Great info... a suggestion... try using a socket on the flywheel nut with a drill to start the engine instead of the pull cord... works great for me.

Cheers

Digiman

[kcar11705]

Figure out a way to use the waste spark to power the water splitter device. You could even mount 3 more coils (4 total) and that way you could have 7 waste sparks to help with powering the splitter. High voltage through a step down transformer for the high current. Just a thought.

[cuke8466]

The engine should have a camshaft that runs at half the speed of the crank. A magnetic or optical pickup could be used to disable the ignition circuit during the waste spark.

[ZenArrow]

The good old points were good for being on the cam shaft on my old XS650 Yamaha (TX650A actually). As the cam runs 1:2 rotations of the crank.

Perhaps some good old points will be good for the trick? It's a step backwards, but for prototyping.

Just wondering if the coil could be moved instead of the flywheel? Perhaps make up a slide bracket to move it about?

Personally I think the waste spark is just a side effect and so they called it that name to make it sound like a plus. Salesmen BS lol ;)

[coquivagabundo]

Hi ZFF you should have no problems with backfire(BF) if the engine is clean inside. Intake valve opens only AFTER TDC-Intake stroke. BF is due to carbon buildup in the Combustion chamber,top of piston,valves and/or a bad intake valve seat seal. if the int. valve was open at point of waste spark it will ALWAYS back fires. to change timing look for a racing shop for mower machines.

skip a tooth on the camshaft gear or get a set of racing keys for the Flywheel.

[coquivagabundo]

to be 100% sure call the manufacturer of the engine or race shop and ask for a engine's timing wheel it will show everything you need to know about the timing of your engine, i.e when the valves begin to open and at what specific degree. in relation to all cycles of the engine operation.

but it is my understanding that the Int. valve should be closed at the point when you get the waste spark.

[charliemor3]

zff,

Rather than making a mechanical mod; what if you interupted the spark circuit with an appropriately sized relay(voltage/current) and a triggered clock circuit. The clock circuit will essentially be a two count/pulse flip-flop circuit with your tdc pulse ingaging the relay to fire your spark plug. This should solve the back fire problem by preventing the waste spark/pulse from occuring. Looking forward to seeing what you do next.

charliemor3

[hydromakers]

About the belly

All good farmers build a shed over his tools.

[radicaldan0]

Hair loss..lol I am right there with you my friend. I just tell people that there is not enough room for all these brains and hair too.

Another great video. keep up the good work...Dan Wilson Jr.

[h2opower]

Thanks for telling people about the waste spark for I have been telling people about that for years now, and it just wasn't sinking in to peoples minds.

You might want to try a magnetic counter and set it to every other revolution to get ride of that pesky waste spark.

[askmeHHOw]

1ST, love what your doing.

2ND, you are very right about needing to get rid of the "waist Spark", but dont try to run you ice without a key. The torque is much more than you think. You will not be able to tighten the flywheel down tight enough to keep it from spinning on the shaft. Years of small engine repair talken.

I was looking into a positioning sensor for the cam on mine, to open the circit when on the EX stroke.

Happy HHO ing!

[mozon1967]

Zero',

Your vids are great! I want to wish you luck on this project and I'd like to help.

Please look at my vids #22-#29 and #40-#44. Iv'e posted the first one as a "video response" to this vid.

I was able to modify an old Briggs & Stratten with a pick up off the cam gear and a home made electronic ignition system (fully adjustable timing).

Hope this will help!

Please let me know what you think.

PS- The last vid shows the circuit in detail.

Maurice

[ebninc]

you're worried about hair loss products ... HA!!! I wanna know who the heck it was that ratted me out to everyone in the universe selling VIAGRA !!!

[dryadiabatic]

You may need to have the valves ground in that old of an engine. Most engines that have lots of hours on them the intake valves leak small amounts of exhuast back into the intake. It could ignite the intake gases at low RPM or on start up.

My dad always said that intelligence and hair would not mix!!!

DAB

[ZenArrow]

There is also the saying of the solar powered pick up, though I think it said sex machine after that on the t-shirt. lol. Sounds like Green Power Orientated ;)

[tedtowin]

"Z" Small engine repair shops have what is called an "Offset Flywheel Key" . The purpose of this is to advance the timing on small engines. This might or might not help your project. Good luck!!!!!!

[vancecook7]

Good info, thanks. :)

Since you say you want it to run lean, I take that to mean you will either continue to use HHO as a booster in your mower, or will be mixing the HHO with air even if you get it to run solely on the output of your HHO generator.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

It will be mixing with as much air as it wants at the intake. The maximum lean condition is self leveling.

[ZenArrow]

I think the regular fuel with HHO runs richer than straight HHO. I would like to use the carbie as a jet mixer. It can handle the HHO as a gaseous, through the jets. At least it gives it some more control than a straight basket ball pump adapter as a jet.

The float will be a mute point, as no fluid fuel in it would have it wide open to feed the regular carbie jets. Of course there will need to be adjustments to the "ball park figures" to make it run.

1. Leaner

2. Retarded

3. Choke on air intake

[vancecook7]

Zero, nicely done as always.

As far as timing goes, I wonder if advancing the timing so that we can take advantage of both the expansion of the O2 and H2 molecules becoming monatomic as well as the vacuum affect of those gases becoming H2O ... in essence I theorize that there are two chemical reactions that we can potentially harness in the ICE rotational stroke.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

That's true only in a perfect stoichiometric HHO mixture. Almost impossible to achieve. Even less desireable when you consider that you WANT it to run as lean as possible.

[stancruse]

Can't wait to see your results.

[vulpine61]

I'm not a small engine mechanic but I don't think you have to re-key the shaft. You could re-key the flywheel on the opposite side (180 degrees plus or minus where you want it) I have had to re-key a flywheel in my old truck years ago. And I didn't have a broaching kit! Keep up the great videos!!

[EletrikRide]

Good Luck Zero,  The last ime I tried this the bubbler blew up. Timing was just past TDC and waste spark removed. I am building my engine side bubbler from a plastic Gatorade bottle. Might have to go thru a few to get it right. Fortunately, I like Gatorade as it is full of electrolytes. Stay safe. Larry J.