I never heard of Paul Washer before but It sounds like he is picking and choosing what is reasonable in the bible and what is not reasonable. If I am
wrong please explain. If the bible is the word of God then all of is has to be true and all of the rules have to be followed. It doesn't mean we wont make mistakes, it means we read the bible and accept it as truth.
@arecuk1 I disagree with you. I firmly believe that what Washer has stated in the video is true to reality, and comports firmly with what John says in 1 John 1:8-10 and also 1 John 3:6-9. A true believer CANNOT live in perpetual sin and NOT be convicted. BUT at the same time, a true believer is not yet perfected MORALLY in this world, and he will NEVER be until Christ returns. That's all Washer is saying. And what he said is totally logical.
I LOVE brother Paul Washer!!!!!!! This man whom is taking a comment out of concext. LORD have mercy. PRAISE the Father, who we follow, not man--but CHRIST.
I agree with that passage 102%. You must repent. That is to say, that you must repent of your sins and thoughts of Christ. But you cannot repent WITHOUT the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 2:8-9 & Acts 11:18
@IAmANaturalBeauty I do apologize if I seem a bit crude, but it's just some of your previous statements seemed a bit offensive to me. But anyway, to answer your question; true repentance is simply changing your mind about something. You not only change your actions but you change your thoughts as well. You say to yourself, that "this certain thing is wrong, and I want no part of it anymore" But Gody repentance can only come from God as a gift that is not earned. He FREELY gives it for no cost.
@vekl - So you feel like the definition of repentance is similar to what I stated for option #2. If this is the case, are you saying that repentance has nothing to do with our actions? That we can just sin as often as we like as long as we know it's wrong in our minds? I think God can see through that. I would think if you change your mind for the good, your actions would change for the good too.
@IAmANaturalBeauty Again, I honestly don't think you understand anything I say. I can tell just by the statements you make and the questions you ask. I say that if you have any questions about my views, perhaps you should watch the ENTIREvideo before you make such statements.
I understand what DeMario was saying about perfect repentance because repentance is repentance. BUT if we really want to repent and be justified by our work of repentance, well, God's got a laundry list of things. But God's grace closes the gap on that laundry list. We can't be good enough! Our righteousness is as filthy rags. So yeah, it goes without saying that your video was pretty good. I'm NOT a fan of Paul Washer but the majors that he preaches on do have conviction written all over them.
But what does that mean? Not to live in a (continuous) state of carnality? If I watched porn once a month, is it continuous? How is a Christian suppose to know the answer when the answer isn't given by the speaker?
This is a good question, but you must also accept the reality of your flesh. God has the power to deliver us from sin. You must also understand the language in which the text is written in. First ask yourself this question; have you sinned at least once since conversion?
John 9:40 is a very weak argument to use, because in Luke 12:1, Jesus called the Pharisees hypocrites. If Paul Washer admits he have sin in his life, how is he better than the Pharisees. Mathew 5:20, "...Except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." Anyone who claims to be of Christ and can't repent perfectly is a hypocrite. We are to walk the way Christ walked, that's why He gave us His Spirit.
lildog73, Jesus commanded believers to repent daily:
"After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our DAILY bread. And FORGIVE US OUR DEBTS, as we forgive our debtors." (Matthew 6:9-12)
The apostle Paul wrote: "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I AM chief." (1 Timothy 1:15)
Where does Jesus say repent daily? He says, "Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven." Is there any sin in Heaven? So there shouldn't be any sin on earth.
Paul was speaking about his condition before he found Christ. Paul was a holy man. Saul was the sinner.
You should read Lk 9:23 to see if the bible teaches us to avoid sin DAILY. And you're right. There should not be any sin on earth, but there is. And the fact is that you are still not without sin, brother. So I'm gonna ask you the same question asked Demario; have YOU sinned at least once since conversion?
Are you saying, that in this verse Jesus gave us permission to sin? If this is what you think you are badly mistaken. If a person denies himself, how can he sin?
lildog73, Jesus taught believers to confess their sins in Matthew 6 which reveals that reborn believers are prone to sin. But, praise God, we are forgiven by daily confession in Christ's name. Immature Christians who have not yet learned discipline through the chastisement and conviction of the Holy Spirit do sin willfully however, they will not continue to do so as they grow. Those who state that they have not sinned willfully at any time after conversion are being dishonest with themselves.
Paul confessed to Timothy, in the present tense, that he was the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15) and Romans 7 clearly reveals Paul's struggle with sin after conversion. Paul also taught that whilst believers strive for perfection, they mature gradually (Philippians 3:11-15). To place the expectation of instantaneous perfection on a new/weak Christian is to place an unreasonable burden on them which can cause them to stumble. To do so is a sin (Romans 14:21). Consider also 1 John 5:16.
1 John 3:8-9, "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
Christ is mightier than the flesh. No Christian should ever sin willfully.
lildog73, a believer is gradually conformed to image of Christ by God the Father and will, through faith, discipline and conviction, grow in Christ having his mind renewed. He will be given a new heart and new desires and will overcome his desire to sin willfully as he matures. However, new and weak Christians are spiritual babes and are prone to follow the desires of the flesh. To deny this is to deny the teachings in the Word about the process of sanctification.
I disagree. Proverbs 1:7, "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction." People who sin willfully don't fear God. Jesus in John 8:11 said, ". . . Go and sin no more." He didn't say, "Go and sin less and less until there is eventually no more sin in you."
lildog73, may I ask if you perfectly love your neighbour as yourself (Mark 12:31) or have you chosen, even momentarily, to deliberately harbour an unrighteous thought about a person since your conversion?
In preparing to give a truthful answer, please consider James 2:10: "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."
You have a big misunderstanding. There is no sin in temptation. Sin is only committed when the temptation overtake you. If a sinful thought was sin, than that means that Jesus was a sinner, because in Hebrews 4:15 says Jesus was tempted on all points as we are, but without sin. The Bible also says be angry, but sin not. Those are proof that there is no sin in being tempted to do something. Sin is the transgression of the law. If I am tempted to break the law, I have not sinned.
Yes, but it was a sin did in ignorance. After the Holy Spirit revealed it to me, I repented. When the unknown sins are revealed, you must repent. The Holy Spirit leads into all truth. A sin committed in ignorance is not a rebellion towards God. Don't use anyone's life or testimony as a justification of sin. Only use what the Bible says about sin.
I don't care if the sin was unknown or not. All I care about is the absolute PERFECTION that God requires ALL men to have. Neither you, Demario, Paul Washer, or anyone will ever attain that 100%. You sin unknowingly, this means that you are STILL guilty. And I thank you for at least admitting that you did, which is far more humble than Demario. Thank you.
That's a very good question, and the answer to that is; yes. For both instances. No man is innocent when they sin against God. Christian or not. When a Christian sins, they either are aware of it, or they are not. They're still guilty.
If you admit that you sin out of rebellion, how are you any different than an atheist or sinner. If you willfully sin against the most high God, you have no fear of Him. Read Hebrews 10:26-30 and if you're not moved by that, you're not of God.
Three rules apply when we study the Bible: context, context, context.
One must study the whole counsel of God when considering the changes in a believer because these are gradual. Scripture is very clear that there is a process of maturation:
"As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:" (1 Peter 2:2)
Its like this. When you get saved, there are a lot of sins you don't know about. Lets say lying is the only sin you knew. Well, after you get saved, don't tell another lie. But, if you continue to lie and give the excuse that its a process, you are demonstrating rebellion.
You are absolutly right lildog, if you continue to sin, then perhaps it's evidence of non-conversion. But to claim that you have not sinned since conversion is not humble at all and you are guilty of 1 Jn1:8&10. A true believer will not live in continuous sin. A true believer will also never say that they have not sinned or have no sin, either. If you're going to claim perfect righteousness as Demario has done, you better be able to prove it 100%. Have YOU repented perfectly, lildog?
You admitted that you continue to sin in rebellion. You must give an account of all the things done in the body, you need to repent. If you sin in rebellion, you do not fear God. Example, you know that getting drunk is a sin, right. If you continue to get drunk now, the Holy Spirit is not in you and until you repent, you are facing the torment of the everlasting lake of fire. Anyone who can't repent perfectly, do not have the Holy Spirit. Look at Romans 8:11.
I'm happy to know that you'll be praying for me, but again neither you or demario hace any right to condemn anyone. Take the more out of your eye first.
Paul said this about Peter: "But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned." (Galatians 2:11) Why was Peter condemned? Because "he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party" (Galatians 2:12) Peter was not ignorant on the subject of circumcision, he was sinning willfully. What of Peter's denial of Christ? Was he unsaved? What of David's deliberate sins against God? Was he lost? Were these men pridefully rebellious or merely weak?
In context, Hebrews 10:26-29 refers to apostasy, the rejection of Christ (Hebrews 6), not the occasional wilful sin committed in weakness. 2 Peter 3:17 warns the Beloved not to be "carried away with the error of lawless people and lose [their] own stability." This is a warning to believers to beware of falling into error (willful sin) which is evidence that this can happen even to believers. There are many warnings in the Word because Christians do fall into sin due to weakness, not defiance.
"Christians do fall into sin due to weakness, not defiance." I couldn't have said it better myself. Good point, which is exactly what I was trying to say all along. But of course, some people will look at that and claim that you are giving space for sin.
Amen, my brother. Ironically, the sin that those who promote sinless perfection are committing is hypocrisy. What saddens me is that they would have to have to be in denial to believe that they have not sinned willfully since conversion (presuming there was one) which prevents them from repenting. Defending the position of perfect obedience is a folly for them and a stumbling block to weaker Brethren.
God bless you for having the courage to speak the truth in love. I stand with you, Jay.
Peter did not commit a sin, but reacted out of fear. Paul was warning him that what he was doing would lead to sin.
Peter was saved, but he was overtaken with temptation, remember Luke 22:31, "And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren." People are teaching that you will always sin, I'm against that. Christ conquered sin.
"Peter did not commit a sin, but reacted out of fear." Now do you see what you said here? You appear to be making an excuse for sin. Again, it doesn't matter if he reacted out of fear,. HE STILL SINNED.
I don't give ANY excuse for sinning. Sin is sin, whether you acted out of fear or rebellion, or ignorance. If you sin IN ANY WAY, then you are sill guilty.
You need to repent of your sins or you will not see Heaven. If you need help or counsel, I'll love to help and guide you. But, that sin in your life must be repented of. The wages of sin is death. We can even talk on the cell, if you need help, Don't let the Devil cause you to be condemned, I say this with love. Hopefully your heart is humble enough to receive my invitation. I'll pray for you.
Are YOU repenting of YOUR sins, lildog? If you really want to talk on the cell, then give me yout number, but don't accuse me of sin if you don't know what sin I'm committing.
A parable comes to mind: "God, I thank you that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get"
Tax collector-"God be merciful to me A SINNER".
(14) I tell you you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted. Luke 18:9-14.
Question: why did Jesus teach us to ask for forgiveness? Luke 11:4
lildog73, the exacting perfection that you are wrongly teaching is a burden that cannot be carried by any born again believer because ALL fall short of the glory of God. I exhort you to watch Tim Conway's video "Are you a Christian?" on the "illbehonest" channel. In it he reveals the way in which Satan attempts to snatch away the assurance of saints by calling into question their salvation with lies about perfection:
You are very welcome, my dear brother. The Body of Christ is united in the truth and your love, encouragement and faithful stand against false teachings is a great blessing. Much love to you (and Carrie) in our mighty Saviour.
Romans 3:23, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." That word "sinned" is past tense. Yes, everyone have sinned before thats why everyone needs Christ. But to say that we're going to always sin, you doubt the power of Christ. Oh ye of little faith. Watch my video, "Is the flesh mightier than Christ" Will you tell Christ on the day of Judgement, "I live in sin because your Holy Spirit wasn't mighty enough to deliver me."
lildog73, I cannot persuade you of your excess regarding this matter, only the Holy Spirit can do so. The Bible is plain that believers will not attain perfection before death. Paul himself claimed that he had not attained perfection, exhorting believers to press on TOWARD it (Philippians 3:12-16). I am grieved that you insist that believers be perfecty sinless because it will cause the weak to stumble.
I pray that you will come to see the pridefulness of your position and repent of it.
Incidentally, lildog73, one of the common traits among that sinless perfection group is that in order to maintain their (your) position they redefine sin as a "mistake" or, as you stated, as "fear" and not a real sin.
vekl made it very clear - and I stand with him with the backing of God's Word - that sin is sin. It cannot be redefined simply to excuse the error exposed in your wrongful belief on this matter.
- Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4)
- All unrighteousness is sin (1 John 5:17); that is, if it is not righteous, it is sin.
- Failing to do something you should have done is sin, because James 4:17 states, "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."
- Whatsoever is not done in faith is sin (Roman 14:23)
- The thought of foolishness is sin (Proverbs 24:9)
Yes, however, the redeemed will not achieve perfection whilst we remain in the flesh. Saved souls enter Heaven prior to their bodies which are resurrected and glorified later. Therefore, as long as we are in the body, we will always be prone to temptation and sin. Weakness to sin lessens as our souls are gradually sanctified and conformed to the image of Christ by God but we will not attain perfection until physical death. It is only at that point that the Christian is completely sanctified.
Look with me at James 3:2, "For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body. " Is James talking about perfect men? No. Only a few verses later he states: "But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison" (James 3:8)
James, like Paul, lovingly encourages believers to strive for righteousness but he knows the condition of the flesh.
My question to you, lildog73, is this: as a proponent of sinless perfection, you appear to have no conviction of sin. What then does this say about your spiritual life as opposed to those of us who are convicted and repent daily?
Hebrews 12:7-8 says, "If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons."
No, you don't believe in the power of the Holy Spirit. Christ never taught that we will always sin, I think I missed that verse. Stop following man's doctrine and follow Christ's doctrine. Didn't Christ say nothing was impossible for Him? I don't serve a Christ who can't overcome sin in me.
lildog73, I have patiently reasoned with you from Scripture but it is clear that you do not wish to submit to the whole counsel of God's teaching on this matter. I shall now end our discussion and leave you in God's hands. I sincerely hope that the Lord will grant you knowledge of the truth and cause you to repent of your misguided belief in sinless perfection.
I encourage you to watch vekl's clarification video series on sin (posted on 6th October) and to seriously consider his words.
I would like to make a last comment to you, lildog73. There is no evidence whatsoever that the anti-Christ, or the man of perdition, is present in the world (although the spirit of the anti-Christ has long been in the world). Whilst Christians can speculate, we cannot say with any certainly that he is already among us. Please examine the Word on this matter so as not to teach supposition as fact. Linking the unveiling of anti-Christ to sinless perfection is not only foolish, it is sinful.
I dont agree with Washer's Theology. Nor do I agree with Demario's attitude towards Washer. I apologize if this has caused any stumbling blocks. One thing I know is that Michael and Jesse admitted they have sinned but later repented and asked God for forgiveness. I dont agree with Washer's theology on Calvinism but I do agree with him on Lordship salvation and the need of the sinner to repent under the influence of the Holy Spirit. This is the same what Wesley Finney......
I never heard of Paul Washer before but It sounds like he is picking and choosing what is reasonable in the bible and what is not reasonable. If I am
wrong please explain. If the bible is the word of God then all of is has to be true and all of the rules have to be followed. It doesn't mean we wont make mistakes, it means we read the bible and accept it as truth.
arecuk1 4 months ago
@arecuk1 I disagree with you. I firmly believe that what Washer has stated in the video is true to reality, and comports firmly with what John says in 1 John 1:8-10 and also 1 John 3:6-9. A true believer CANNOT live in perpetual sin and NOT be convicted. BUT at the same time, a true believer is not yet perfected MORALLY in this world, and he will NEVER be until Christ returns. That's all Washer is saying. And what he said is totally logical.
vekl 4 months ago
I LOVE brother Paul Washer!!!!!!! This man whom is taking a comment out of concext. LORD have mercy. PRAISE the Father, who we follow, not man--but CHRIST.
nikTHATchick 1 year ago
I LOVE brother Paul Washer!!!!!!!
nikTHATchick 1 year ago
Luke 13:3 or 5 - "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."
IAmANaturalBeauty 1 year ago
@IAmANaturalBeauty
I agree with that passage 102%. You must repent. That is to say, that you must repent of your sins and thoughts of Christ. But you cannot repent WITHOUT the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 2:8-9 & Acts 11:18
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl
So what do you feel is the true definition of repentance?
1. turning completely away from all sin and not doing sin again
OR
2. feeling sorry and remorse for your sins and "try" not to do that sin again
(By the way, just asking, don't get upset... I've been toiling with the definition of true repentance too)...
IAmANaturalBeauty 1 year ago
@IAmANaturalBeauty I do apologize if I seem a bit crude, but it's just some of your previous statements seemed a bit offensive to me. But anyway, to answer your question; true repentance is simply changing your mind about something. You not only change your actions but you change your thoughts as well. You say to yourself, that "this certain thing is wrong, and I want no part of it anymore" But Gody repentance can only come from God as a gift that is not earned. He FREELY gives it for no cost.
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl - So you feel like the definition of repentance is similar to what I stated for option #2. If this is the case, are you saying that repentance has nothing to do with our actions? That we can just sin as often as we like as long as we know it's wrong in our minds? I think God can see through that. I would think if you change your mind for the good, your actions would change for the good too.
IAmANaturalBeauty 1 year ago
@IAmANaturalBeauty Again, I honestly don't think you understand anything I say. I can tell just by the statements you make and the questions you ask. I say that if you have any questions about my views, perhaps you should watch the ENTIREvideo before you make such statements.
vekl 1 year ago
It was through Paul Washer where I heard the true gospel and was saved.
mobo144 2 years ago
what is the title of Paul Washers sermon on 1:13 , i was hoping to find it on youtube somewhere
jmd0627 2 years ago
@jmd0627 Don't know the title, but you can find several videos by doing a word search with "Heartcry."
Passiflora101 2 years ago
I understand what DeMario was saying about perfect repentance because repentance is repentance. BUT if we really want to repent and be justified by our work of repentance, well, God's got a laundry list of things. But God's grace closes the gap on that laundry list. We can't be good enough! Our righteousness is as filthy rags. So yeah, it goes without saying that your video was pretty good. I'm NOT a fan of Paul Washer but the majors that he preaches on do have conviction written all over them.
MtelH 2 years ago
This Mario guy or whatever his name is is preaching a sinless perfection doctrine that only Jesus was able to fulfill.
Now I believe that we are to strive to offend/sin not, his expectations are unreasonable and leave no room for repentance by way of our Advocate!
He needs a huge dose of understanding!
vnubski 2 years ago
But what does that mean? Not to live in a (continuous) state of carnality? If I watched porn once a month, is it continuous? How is a Christian suppose to know the answer when the answer isn't given by the speaker?
Christlike71 2 years ago
This is a good question, but you must also accept the reality of your flesh. God has the power to deliver us from sin. You must also understand the language in which the text is written in. First ask yourself this question; have you sinned at least once since conversion?
vekl 2 years ago
John 9:40 is a very weak argument to use, because in Luke 12:1, Jesus called the Pharisees hypocrites. If Paul Washer admits he have sin in his life, how is he better than the Pharisees. Mathew 5:20, "...Except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." Anyone who claims to be of Christ and can't repent perfectly is a hypocrite. We are to walk the way Christ walked, that's why He gave us His Spirit.
lildog73 2 years ago
lildog73, Jesus commanded believers to repent daily:
"After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our DAILY bread. And FORGIVE US OUR DEBTS, as we forgive our debtors." (Matthew 6:9-12)
The apostle Paul wrote: "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I AM chief." (1 Timothy 1:15)
Utopiang 2 years ago
Where does Jesus say repent daily? He says, "Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven." Is there any sin in Heaven? So there shouldn't be any sin on earth.
Paul was speaking about his condition before he found Christ. Paul was a holy man. Saul was the sinner.
lildog73 2 years ago
You should read Lk 9:23 to see if the bible teaches us to avoid sin DAILY. And you're right. There should not be any sin on earth, but there is. And the fact is that you are still not without sin, brother. So I'm gonna ask you the same question asked Demario; have YOU sinned at least once since conversion?
vekl 2 years ago
Are you saying, that in this verse Jesus gave us permission to sin? If this is what you think you are badly mistaken. If a person denies himself, how can he sin?
lildog73 2 years ago
lildog73, Jesus taught believers to confess their sins in Matthew 6 which reveals that reborn believers are prone to sin. But, praise God, we are forgiven by daily confession in Christ's name. Immature Christians who have not yet learned discipline through the chastisement and conviction of the Holy Spirit do sin willfully however, they will not continue to do so as they grow. Those who state that they have not sinned willfully at any time after conversion are being dishonest with themselves.
Utopiang 2 years ago
Paul confessed to Timothy, in the present tense, that he was the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15) and Romans 7 clearly reveals Paul's struggle with sin after conversion. Paul also taught that whilst believers strive for perfection, they mature gradually (Philippians 3:11-15). To place the expectation of instantaneous perfection on a new/weak Christian is to place an unreasonable burden on them which can cause them to stumble. To do so is a sin (Romans 14:21). Consider also 1 John 5:16.
Utopiang 2 years ago
1 John 3:8-9, "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
Christ is mightier than the flesh. No Christian should ever sin willfully.
lildog73 2 years ago
lildog73, a believer is gradually conformed to image of Christ by God the Father and will, through faith, discipline and conviction, grow in Christ having his mind renewed. He will be given a new heart and new desires and will overcome his desire to sin willfully as he matures. However, new and weak Christians are spiritual babes and are prone to follow the desires of the flesh. To deny this is to deny the teachings in the Word about the process of sanctification.
Utopiang 2 years ago
I disagree. Proverbs 1:7, "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction." People who sin willfully don't fear God. Jesus in John 8:11 said, ". . . Go and sin no more." He didn't say, "Go and sin less and less until there is eventually no more sin in you."
lildog73 2 years ago
lildog73, may I ask if you perfectly love your neighbour as yourself (Mark 12:31) or have you chosen, even momentarily, to deliberately harbour an unrighteous thought about a person since your conversion?
In preparing to give a truthful answer, please consider James 2:10: "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."
Utopiang 2 years ago
You have a big misunderstanding. There is no sin in temptation. Sin is only committed when the temptation overtake you. If a sinful thought was sin, than that means that Jesus was a sinner, because in Hebrews 4:15 says Jesus was tempted on all points as we are, but without sin. The Bible also says be angry, but sin not. Those are proof that there is no sin in being tempted to do something. Sin is the transgression of the law. If I am tempted to break the law, I have not sinned.
lildog73 2 years ago
Now, let me ask YOU, lildog73; have YOU sinned at least once since conversion?
vekl 2 years ago
Yes, but it was a sin did in ignorance. After the Holy Spirit revealed it to me, I repented. When the unknown sins are revealed, you must repent. The Holy Spirit leads into all truth. A sin committed in ignorance is not a rebellion towards God. Don't use anyone's life or testimony as a justification of sin. Only use what the Bible says about sin.
lildog73 2 years ago
I don't care if the sin was unknown or not. All I care about is the absolute PERFECTION that God requires ALL men to have. Neither you, Demario, Paul Washer, or anyone will ever attain that 100%. You sin unknowingly, this means that you are STILL guilty. And I thank you for at least admitting that you did, which is far more humble than Demario. Thank you.
vekl 2 years ago
Read James 4:17, "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." When you sin, is it out of ignorance or rebellion?
lildog73 2 years ago
That's a very good question, and the answer to that is; yes. For both instances. No man is innocent when they sin against God. Christian or not. When a Christian sins, they either are aware of it, or they are not. They're still guilty.
vekl 2 years ago
If you admit that you sin out of rebellion, how are you any different than an atheist or sinner. If you willfully sin against the most high God, you have no fear of Him. Read Hebrews 10:26-30 and if you're not moved by that, you're not of God.
lildog73 2 years ago
Three rules apply when we study the Bible: context, context, context.
One must study the whole counsel of God when considering the changes in a believer because these are gradual. Scripture is very clear that there is a process of maturation:
"As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:" (1 Peter 2:2)
Utopiang 2 years ago
Its like this. When you get saved, there are a lot of sins you don't know about. Lets say lying is the only sin you knew. Well, after you get saved, don't tell another lie. But, if you continue to lie and give the excuse that its a process, you are demonstrating rebellion.
lildog73 2 years ago
You are absolutly right lildog, if you continue to sin, then perhaps it's evidence of non-conversion. But to claim that you have not sinned since conversion is not humble at all and you are guilty of 1 Jn1:8&10. A true believer will not live in continuous sin. A true believer will also never say that they have not sinned or have no sin, either. If you're going to claim perfect righteousness as Demario has done, you better be able to prove it 100%. Have YOU repented perfectly, lildog?
vekl 2 years ago
You admitted that you continue to sin in rebellion. You must give an account of all the things done in the body, you need to repent. If you sin in rebellion, you do not fear God. Example, you know that getting drunk is a sin, right. If you continue to get drunk now, the Holy Spirit is not in you and until you repent, you are facing the torment of the everlasting lake of fire. Anyone who can't repent perfectly, do not have the Holy Spirit. Look at Romans 8:11.
lildog73 2 years ago
I'm happy to know that you'll be praying for me, but again neither you or demario hace any right to condemn anyone. Take the more out of your eye first.
vekl 2 years ago
Paul said this about Peter: "But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned." (Galatians 2:11) Why was Peter condemned? Because "he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party" (Galatians 2:12) Peter was not ignorant on the subject of circumcision, he was sinning willfully. What of Peter's denial of Christ? Was he unsaved? What of David's deliberate sins against God? Was he lost? Were these men pridefully rebellious or merely weak?
Utopiang 2 years ago
In context, Hebrews 10:26-29 refers to apostasy, the rejection of Christ (Hebrews 6), not the occasional wilful sin committed in weakness. 2 Peter 3:17 warns the Beloved not to be "carried away with the error of lawless people and lose [their] own stability." This is a warning to believers to beware of falling into error (willful sin) which is evidence that this can happen even to believers. There are many warnings in the Word because Christians do fall into sin due to weakness, not defiance.
Utopiang 2 years ago
"Christians do fall into sin due to weakness, not defiance." I couldn't have said it better myself. Good point, which is exactly what I was trying to say all along. But of course, some people will look at that and claim that you are giving space for sin.
vekl 2 years ago
Amen, my brother. Ironically, the sin that those who promote sinless perfection are committing is hypocrisy. What saddens me is that they would have to have to be in denial to believe that they have not sinned willfully since conversion (presuming there was one) which prevents them from repenting. Defending the position of perfect obedience is a folly for them and a stumbling block to weaker Brethren.
God bless you for having the courage to speak the truth in love. I stand with you, Jay.
Utopiang 2 years ago
Peter did not commit a sin, but reacted out of fear. Paul was warning him that what he was doing would lead to sin.
Peter was saved, but he was overtaken with temptation, remember Luke 22:31, "And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren." People are teaching that you will always sin, I'm against that. Christ conquered sin.
lildog73 2 years ago
"Peter did not commit a sin, but reacted out of fear." Now do you see what you said here? You appear to be making an excuse for sin. Again, it doesn't matter if he reacted out of fear,. HE STILL SINNED.
vekl 2 years ago
What excuse do you give for sin? Do you act out of fear or are you simply rebellious?
lildog73 2 years ago
I don't give ANY excuse for sinning. Sin is sin, whether you acted out of fear or rebellion, or ignorance. If you sin IN ANY WAY, then you are sill guilty.
vekl 2 years ago
You need to repent of your sins or you will not see Heaven. If you need help or counsel, I'll love to help and guide you. But, that sin in your life must be repented of. The wages of sin is death. We can even talk on the cell, if you need help, Don't let the Devil cause you to be condemned, I say this with love. Hopefully your heart is humble enough to receive my invitation. I'll pray for you.
lildog73 2 years ago
Are YOU repenting of YOUR sins, lildog? If you really want to talk on the cell, then give me yout number, but don't accuse me of sin if you don't know what sin I'm committing.
vekl 2 years ago
I have repented of my sins. I only accused you of sin because you said that you did commit sin. I'll leave my number in your inbox.
lildog73 2 years ago
If i sin, I know that it's wrong, and that ot offends God. That's why I ask God to forgive me.
vekl 2 years ago
A parable comes to mind: "God, I thank you that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get"
Tax collector-"God be merciful to me A SINNER".
(14) I tell you you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted. Luke 18:9-14.
Question: why did Jesus teach us to ask for forgiveness? Luke 11:4
Haukman66 2 years ago 4
AMEN, Kevin. Luke 18:9-14 beautifully describes the haughtiness and error of those who preach sinless perfection. "Thy Word is truth." (John 17:17)
Utopiang 2 years ago
lildog73, the exacting perfection that you are wrongly teaching is a burden that cannot be carried by any born again believer because ALL fall short of the glory of God. I exhort you to watch Tim Conway's video "Are you a Christian?" on the "illbehonest" channel. In it he reveals the way in which Satan attempts to snatch away the assurance of saints by calling into question their salvation with lies about perfection:
watch?v=44XWs-t9-ts
May God will grant you knowledge on this matter.
Utopiang 2 years ago
Thanks for the tip, Utopiang. I'm onna check it out myself.
God bless you, sis! :-)
vekl 2 years ago
You are very welcome, my dear brother. The Body of Christ is united in the truth and your love, encouragement and faithful stand against false teachings is a great blessing. Much love to you (and Carrie) in our mighty Saviour.
Soli Deo Gloria!
Utopiang 2 years ago
Romans 3:23, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." That word "sinned" is past tense. Yes, everyone have sinned before thats why everyone needs Christ. But to say that we're going to always sin, you doubt the power of Christ. Oh ye of little faith. Watch my video, "Is the flesh mightier than Christ" Will you tell Christ on the day of Judgement, "I live in sin because your Holy Spirit wasn't mighty enough to deliver me."
lildog73 2 years ago
lildog73, I cannot persuade you of your excess regarding this matter, only the Holy Spirit can do so. The Bible is plain that believers will not attain perfection before death. Paul himself claimed that he had not attained perfection, exhorting believers to press on TOWARD it (Philippians 3:12-16). I am grieved that you insist that believers be perfecty sinless because it will cause the weak to stumble.
I pray that you will come to see the pridefulness of your position and repent of it.
Utopiang 2 years ago
Incidentally, lildog73, one of the common traits among that sinless perfection group is that in order to maintain their (your) position they redefine sin as a "mistake" or, as you stated, as "fear" and not a real sin.
vekl made it very clear - and I stand with him with the backing of God's Word - that sin is sin. It cannot be redefined simply to excuse the error exposed in your wrongful belief on this matter.
Utopiang 2 years ago
Consider the Biblical definitions of sin:
- Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4)
- All unrighteousness is sin (1 John 5:17); that is, if it is not righteous, it is sin.
- Failing to do something you should have done is sin, because James 4:17 states, "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."
- Whatsoever is not done in faith is sin (Roman 14:23)
- The thought of foolishness is sin (Proverbs 24:9)
- A proud heart is sin (Proverbs 21:4)
Utopiang 2 years ago
Do you believe the Holy Spirit can deliver you out of sin?
lildog73 2 years ago
Yes, however, the redeemed will not achieve perfection whilst we remain in the flesh. Saved souls enter Heaven prior to their bodies which are resurrected and glorified later. Therefore, as long as we are in the body, we will always be prone to temptation and sin. Weakness to sin lessens as our souls are gradually sanctified and conformed to the image of Christ by God but we will not attain perfection until physical death. It is only at that point that the Christian is completely sanctified.
Utopiang 2 years ago
Look with me at James 3:2, "For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body. " Is James talking about perfect men? No. Only a few verses later he states: "But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison" (James 3:8)
James, like Paul, lovingly encourages believers to strive for righteousness but he knows the condition of the flesh.
Utopiang 2 years ago
My question to you, lildog73, is this: as a proponent of sinless perfection, you appear to have no conviction of sin. What then does this say about your spiritual life as opposed to those of us who are convicted and repent daily?
Hebrews 12:7-8 says, "If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons."
Utopiang 2 years ago
Amen Angela!! Great verse!!
Haukman66 2 years ago
Praise the Lord! God bless you, my dear brother.
By the way, I will be in touch with you next week regarding the "NakedGospel" channel. Heresy abounds.
Utopiang 2 years ago
No, you don't believe in the power of the Holy Spirit. Christ never taught that we will always sin, I think I missed that verse. Stop following man's doctrine and follow Christ's doctrine. Didn't Christ say nothing was impossible for Him? I don't serve a Christ who can't overcome sin in me.
lildog73 2 years ago
lildog73, I have patiently reasoned with you from Scripture but it is clear that you do not wish to submit to the whole counsel of God's teaching on this matter. I shall now end our discussion and leave you in God's hands. I sincerely hope that the Lord will grant you knowledge of the truth and cause you to repent of your misguided belief in sinless perfection.
I encourage you to watch vekl's clarification video series on sin (posted on 6th October) and to seriously consider his words.
Utopiang 2 years ago
I won't be convinced by no one that its okay to sin against my God. I hope you find truth before the Anti-Christ is revealed. Peace.
lildog73 2 years ago
I would like to make a last comment to you, lildog73. There is no evidence whatsoever that the anti-Christ, or the man of perdition, is present in the world (although the spirit of the anti-Christ has long been in the world). Whilst Christians can speculate, we cannot say with any certainly that he is already among us. Please examine the Word on this matter so as not to teach supposition as fact. Linking the unveiling of anti-Christ to sinless perfection is not only foolish, it is sinful.
Utopiang 2 years ago
Amen, Jay.
Utopiang 2 years ago
I dont agree with Washer's Theology. Nor do I agree with Demario's attitude towards Washer. I apologize if this has caused any stumbling blocks. One thing I know is that Michael and Jesse admitted they have sinned but later repented and asked God for forgiveness. I dont agree with Washer's theology on Calvinism but I do agree with him on Lordship salvation and the need of the sinner to repent under the influence of the Holy Spirit. This is the same what Wesley Finney......
AaronM144000 2 years ago
.....Ravenhill Tozer Whitefield and guys like them preached.
AaronM144000 2 years ago
I third that my brother
TuanDoulos 2 years ago
I would love to see the thought life of these, so-called, sinless christians!
ProclaimHisWord 2 years ago 3
I second that my brother.
October31st1517 2 years ago
I'll go even further and say: I wouldn't. I wouldn't for the same reason I do not look at pornography.
nunfonseca 2 years ago
Interesting point!
vekl 2 years ago
@ProclaimHisWord I had a thought like that.
What if they all hung out one weekend, and one of them ended up sinning.
dicuss1567 1 year ago