I think g0d is depicted as evil in the bible which is why i think it's not an accurate book.. How can you think an all knowing Being could create man fully knowing that there was a good chance some of them would be a certain way and then send them to eternal hell for being that way? If he knows all and creates all and he set it up so people might eternally suffer? I am just a man and I would never do this so certainly an all Loving G0d would NEVER dot his. This is why bible is wrong.
the only evil in the world is unconciousness , jesus christ was a highly concious being thats what set him apart , we all have the potential to be highly concious
@CORRIGEEN71 This could be why when asked if the Kingdom was coming, Jesus said, "The Kingdom is inside you." Also said something to the affect of, "I have transcended this world, just as you must do." and I quote, "He who makes friends with this world, makes himself an enemy of God." So I believe he's stating for humanity to take the leap into becoming conscious beings.
@nyclear Actually, it depends on what the scriptures say, because that is our guideline for all truth, not our experiances. Spiritualism is misguided and further leaves one completly open to all sorts of spiritual desception, and without the word of God, we can fall pray to being decieved into believing a lie.
@demondagger19 Many scriptures say many things. Are you talking about new and old Testament or another one? How can you know a book isn't a deception if you go by that? You were not there when it was written (and neither was Jesus). I am not saying don't follow a book you believe in but reading a book is an experience. There is no proof in a book written thousands of years ago. It can say there were witnesses but you don't really know.
@nyclear "Are you talking about new and old Testament or another one?"
The OT and NT.
"How can you know a book isn't a deception if you go by that? You were not there when it was written (and neither was Jesus)."
Actually, long before the scriptures where even written, Jesus already existed, in fact, Jesus even mentions this when he described himself as living long before "Abraham" (see John 8:58).
@nyclear Further, the reason why we can know that the bible isn't a desception, is due to it's historicity, prophecy, manuscript evidence and archeological evidence as well, not just because of it's religious significance. So, eyewitness testimonies aren't the only source for knowing as to wether or not the bible is the word of God, although that is another sufficiant source to draw from also.
@demondagger19 How does archeology prove if the words in a book were actually Jesus's and how does it prove that anything said was not misunderstood? Prophecy, like experience could be easily used for deception purposes, no? I have had direct experiences with knowing details of events to come down to the minute details. I think someone more powerful than I, good or evil could do the same and more.
@demondagger19 I am surprised that someone so smart would make a distinction of having utter faith in places and ancient relics to prove to yourself that the bible is real versus trusting your own heart. Jesus himself said the kingdom is within so why not trust the kingdom within? I also think it would be a lot easier for a 'devil' to manipulate the outer world than the inner world. My inner landscape is where I have direct communion with G0d and is protected. Obviously out here is less
@nyclear "I am surprised that someone so smart would make a distinction of having utter faith in places and ancient relics to prove to yourself that the bible is real versus trusting your own heart."
I never that said I had faith in ancient relics and places in order to substantiate as to weather or not the bible the is word of God.
@nyclear cont--- but what I was trying to demonstrate, is that although the bible does have a religious aspect to it, it also has a historical value as well, that's all I was trying to get across.
@nyclear According to the story from the Gospel of Luke, Jesus answers the statement of the pharasees question regarding the coming of the kingdom of God, but Jesus replies by saying that they aren't going to be able to physically see the kingdom of God (which is what they where expecting, an actual physical royal fortress of some sort), but rather the kingdom of God would be "within them" (meaning the disciples) or (depending on the translation) "among them".
@nyclear cont-- or "Among you". This then indicates that the kingdom of God will be or is displayed or established through the disciples themselves. So it is through the disciples that people will recognize or see the kingdom of God on earth.
@nyclear So the context of the story has nothing to do with some sort of spiritual haven within them that they can look to for spiritual guidence, that's not what the text is saying at all, but rather it's saying that the kingdom of God (through the disciples) will be seen on earth or is already established on earth through them, that is what the text talking about.
@nyclear "I also think it would be a lot easier for a 'devil' to manipulate the outer world than the inner world. My inner landscape is where I have direct communion with G0d and is protected."
Actually, as long as your alive and kickin on earth, the devil holds most of the cards when it comes to manipulating, influencing and tempting us whenever he wants to because of the sin nature of our flesh. So ether way, your still satans chew toy until Jesus comes back again.
@nyclear "Prophecy, like experience could be easily used for deception purposes, no?"
Yes it can, but it depends on the source of where the prophecy comes from, but to clearify, a prophecy isn't some sort of outer body experiance or some kind of feeling of complete peace, but rather, a prophecy is a message that pertains to the perdiction of certain future events, that is what a prophecy is.
@nyclear Further, there's also something else that needs to be mentioned whenever it comes to prophecy, and that is that not all prophecy comes from God, in fact, some prophecy's can be influenced by a demonic source if one is not careful (see Acts 16:16), the same can also be said of supernatural experiances as well. This is why descernment is key espescially when it comes to prophecy, and without the word of God, that's not possible.
@nyclear "I have had direct experiences with knowing details of events to come down to the minute details. I think someone more powerful than I, good or evil could do the same and more."
True, and having said that, let me ask you this question, on what basis do you know as to where exactly your source of intele comes from in gaining these supernatural experiances to have the ability to perdict the future?
@demondagger19 BTW, do you know how to respond directly to a comment from the inbox without having to track down the spot in the comments list? Thanks.
@nyclear Sorry man, no clue, but it would make responding to comments a whole lot easier instead of having to look through all these comments, just to respond to one after another. The only way that I think your gonna be able to respond to comments directly from your inbox, is if someone sends you a personal message or something, but honeslty I'm not entirly sure.
@nyclear "I am not saying don't follow a book you believe in but reading a book is an experience."
Uh...actually, reading a book is exactly that, it's reading a book, there's nothing spiritually experimental about it, although the bible does have a spiritual aspect to it.
@demondagger19 Also, I am not doubting that Jesus performed miracles and I believe he was a master. But the bible says some pretty outlandish things that I cannot support. Like saying it's ok to have slaves in the old testament and also that we should kill anyone working on the Sabbath. And in the new testament is basically says that Jesus said he was not there to refute the old testament but to fufill it. That means he's ok with slaves etc?
@nyclear "Like saying it's ok to have slaves in the old testament and also that we should kill anyone working on the Sabbath."
Well, before we make any rash conclusions, we need to first take a look at the context of the culture of that era regarding both slavery and the sabbath.
@nyclear The first thing that we need to recognize when it comes to slavery, is that it was apart of the culture of that time, in fact, in some cases, slavery was one of the ways in which a person needed to do in order to make a living in providing for there families and themselves as well. It's not like today where we now have missonaries going to various countries in providing food or moral support, none of that existed back then, so life was very hard for survival.
@nyclear Now, regarding the sabbath, the significance of the sabbath was to commemorate the creation period of when God completed the creation the world in the Book of Genesis.
@nyclear According to the Genesis account, it describes that when everything was created in six days, God completed the creation of the world and rested on the seventh day, making it holy. The number 7 plays a key role in regards to the sabbath, because the number 7 represents completion.
@nyclear So there's obviously a reason for why the sabbath is highly signified. Further, the bible nowhere says that christians are to kill anyone on the sabbath, in fact, according to the "Ten Commandments" in the Book of Exodus and Deuteronomy, it describes that doing any of the sort is forbidden, so that would be unlikly.
@nyclear cont--"And in the new testament is basically says that Jesus said he was not there to refute the old testament but to fufill it. That means he's ok with slaves etc?"
No, what it means is that Jesus came to fullfill what the scriptures already prophecied long before hand, such as for example suffering by crucifixtion (see The Book of Zachariah & The Book of Psalms), and suffering by humiliation, rejection, and a bloody death (see The book of Isaiah).
@demondagger19 My point in all this is not to disprove the bible. My only point is that the bible does not have any more proof than other scriptures and the only way you can really know if it is right for you is within. Which is why I know in my heart of hearts that there are many paths to G0d, not just one no matter what any book says. If a book has to be taken into context because of the time in history, then we have to pick and choose which parts are still applicable. Not an absolute then
@nyclear "Which is why I know in my heart of hearts that there are many paths to G0d,"
Well, theoretically that may be plausible to you personally, but in reality we know that that's not the way reality works, not all roads lead to the same place, or (spiritually speaking), not all spiritual paths lead to the same God, and this needs to be emphasized greatly.
@nyclear You see, although many religions may teach the belief in God, they do not however pertain to the same one, and we know this because of the fact that according to the many religions in regards to there core doctrines, they are all completly exclusive to one another, and thus are completly contradictory as an end result.
@nyclear In other words, many religions because of there docternal beliefs, are disagreeable and therefore cannot co-exist with each other, and hence do not agree to the belief in the same God.
@demondagger19 i don't understand how people can believe that G0d would deny his love to good, honest caring people who love Him and his creation because they followed one religion over another. To me that would be evil considering G0d knows what's going to happen before you are even born. Why would he even create the idea of something being wrong enough to punish you eternally? Not the G0d I Iove. He is kinder than that. That's just scummy, G0d would not be that evil.
@nyclear "i don't understand how people can believe that G0d would deny his love to good, honest caring people who love Him and his creation because they followed one religion over another."
And since when did God deny his love to anyone? According to the Book of Romans, it describes that God has already demonstrated his love by showing that while we were still sinners, he sent Jesus to die for our sins (Chapter 5:8).
@nyclear Further, in the Gospel of John, the same theme is also described as well, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son" (Chapter 3:16). So, is Gods love exclusive to just one particular group of people? Obviously not, God loved everyone to the point that he chose to sacrifice the very one he loved emensly (his very own son), in order to save a sinful undeserving race like us from an eternal hell that we desvered, that is how much he loved us.
@nyclear So Gods love is not exclusive to anyone, everyone has access in recieving his love, but however the only problem is that many don't want to go through Jesus to recieve it.
@nyclear The key problem here is about the problem of "Sin" which is what the bible describes as a "Trasgression" or a "Breaking" of Gods commands (see 1 John 3:4), and since God is an infinite, just and holy God, then any sins commited in the breaking of his holy law, requires an infinite punishment as an end result.
@nyclear So logically, it's as follows, if you break the laws of the legal system (for example), weather it's murder, theft, or even the destroying of private property, then you have to pay for it by ether doing some jail time or by doing some community service depending on the crime that was commited, so ether way, there's always a punishment that has to be established in ether case, because it is a violation of the laws themselves, cont---
@nyclear ----cont: and in the same way, because God is a very holy and just God, then the punishment for breaking his laws must be established as well, otherwise he can't be considered to be a just God if he allows even one sin to go unpunished. So while God may be a loving God, you have to also take into account the fact that he is also a God of justice, righteousness and complete and utter holiness. You can't have one, without the other.
@nyclear --cont: Sins, no matter how great or small they may be, must be punished ether towards the individual themselves, or by something else in the place of the individual, so ether way, justice must be executed. But luckily we don't have to take that punishment towards ourselves, why? because God (out of love for us), sent Jesus as a replacement for us so that we wouldn't have to suffer his wrath. He sent Jesus to lay his wrath on him, rather then on us because he loved us.
@nyclear --cont: This is why the bible says in the Book of 1 John, it describes Jesus as the atoning sacrifice for our sins. So instead of giving us what we deserved, which is hell and eternal punishment, he instead descided to lay that punishment on his son, and through that sacrifice, we intern recieve his forgivness by excepting his sons atoning sacrifice on our behalf, thus protecting us from the wrath of God that we deserve.
@nyclear --cont: So, it is through the death of his only and loved son, that Gods wrath was satisfied, and his holy justice was established in the process as well, and all of this took place simuntaniously at the cross. It was at this scene that both justice and mercy was displayed and poured out towards us as sinners. None of this is anything that we deserved, but he did all anyway to bring us back into a relationship with him, a relationship that was once broken because of sin.
@nyclear --cont: So while the god you may follow is loving, however, (and I must say this because it's the truth), is not just or righteous as the God of the bible is, why? because if all that he is is loving, then any sins being committed can easily be fluffed off without the need of establishing any punishment for them, but with that quality, any sins being committed can and will become exceptable which in essence isn't just or righteous at all.
@nyclear That's like having a judge with no standerds or liability in establishing a punishment for a crime that was committed, all because he or she believes it's going to be to harsh of a punishment for the individual, but that's not how reality works, and clearly, that's not how the God of the bible operaites.
@demondagger19 Anytime I can be more compassionate than how G0d is described in a book I know something is not 100% with that book. I would NEVER have a being born already a 'sinner'! How evil would that be? I am going to create you already a sinner and then it's up to you to be influenced in the right way to believe in one of many books on the planet? Good luuuuck kiddo!! Come on, that would be evil. G0d would NEVER do that.
@nyclear According to what the bible says or describes, all of humanity was born into sin, why? because of adam and eve's disobediance (Genesis 3), so now the question becomes, why then is the rest of humanity guilty for adam and eve's choice in sinning against God when we had nothing to do with it ? cont---
@nyclear The answer lies in the fact that because adam and eve where the first human beings, this then made them representatives of humanity, and thus made them liable in making a choice for the rest of humanity also.
@demondagger19 my point is, there are tons that never will read the bible or talk to someone who has. The inconsistency is that if Jesus is the only way and G0d doesn't give everyone an opportunity to connect with the understanding, G0d would be evil in that case. Considering he created everything and set everything in motion, created all etc. How can I follow a book that portrays G0d this way? Or judges me as a sinner because of what my ancestors did? That is evil, not of G0d
@nyclear "my point is, there are tons that never will read the bible or talk to someone who has."
And how is that Gods fault? In todays world where information is so easily transfured and vast, ether through the usage of technology, or by people through organizations, the chances of people gaining access to the gospel isn't exactly out of there reach, so in ether case, people will have the chance in hearing the gospel in some way, or another.
@nyclear Further, if people are not willing to read the bible, or willing to talk to someone about the gospel in wanting to understand it whenever it's presented to them, then how in the world is that Gods fault in the individuals complete rejection of it to begin with? If they choose to reject Gods gift of salvation in Christ, then that is there choice. My friend, you should be glad that God even made a way for people to be saved to begin with, because he didn't have to.
@nyclear "The inconsistency is that if Jesus is the only way and G0d doesn't give everyone an opportunity to connect with the understanding,"
Notice that you said "and God doesn't give an opprotunity", this however is completly false, God does and has always given an oppertunity for anyone and everyone to repent of there sins, and as an added bonus, he even provides warnings as well, but does anyone ever listen? No, they don't, and as an end result, they doom themselves.
@demondagger19 could you imagine if our court system said you were guilty because your great great grandfather was a murderer? You would think this was unfair and lacking any wisdom. How can I follow a book that states that G0d 'thinks' this way? That my original ancestor did something wrong by being tricked by another being that G0d put there in the first place? So Now I am guilty for that? Not the One God. Anytime I man can be more compassionate that how you portray G0d I cant follow
@nyclear "could you imagine if our court system said you were guilty because your great great grandfather was a murderer?"
Except that's not what the bible describes in the Book of Genesis, what your doing is twisting the meaning of the story being protrayed, because that's not what the story is saying.
@nyclear According to the Genesis account, the story describes that it was the end result of Adam and Eve's sins that resulted in the rest of humanity becoming guilty before God, and I've already mentioned to you earlier as to why, and the reason was because both Adam and Eve where both representatives of humanity, thus giving them full responisbility to act on our behalf since they where the only beings that God gave in having complete authority over the earth (Chapter 1:28).
@nyclear So, since they both represented humanity as a whole, any choices that they made was an implication on our part as well, in other words, because they represented us entirily, we all are to blame for making the same choices that they've made, and that was to rebel against Gods commands, and as evidence each sin that we commit is a direct reflection of that, in fact, that's what the bible describes sin as (1 John 3:4).
@nyclear From Adam and Eve, to Cail and Abel, sin has always had it's implications of being the complete opposite of what God had ordained, and we see results of this all throughout the bible, from "Murder" (Genesis 4) "Pride" (Genesis 11), "Sexual perversion" (Genesis 19), "Idolitry" (Exodus 32, Jeremiah 7-44, 1 Kings 14:23-24, Acts 17), to "Witchcraft and False Spirituality" (Deuteronomy 18, Acts 8:9-11, 16:16), and "False Prophecy" (Deuteronomy 13).
@nyclear All of this is just a few examples of the effects of sin which we brought upon ourselves through Adam and Eve, so, who is to blame for all this? The answer is obviously us, we screwed up, not God.
@demondagger19 I am not saying it is not a valid path to G0d but to think that your way is the only way with all these antequated ideas, portraying G0d as this egomaniac, and then saying don't go by how you feel within but by the facts of the book? The facts are messy and portrays G0d with less compassion than what I can muster. And we both know that is impossible. If you heard that 500 people saw jesus rise again and we wrote down what he said & had all kinds of weird stuff, u would follow?
@nyclear " I am not saying it is not a valid path to G0d"
No, but what your saying is that there are many spiritual paths to God other then Jesus Christ, but in contrast to what the bible describes, that's not what the bible teaches.
@nyclear@nyclear According to what the bible describes, there is only one way to God, and that is through Jesus Christ alone, not through anyone or anything else apart from him. In fact, Jesus describes this exact same discription when he said "I am the way" (John 14:6). So no, Jesus is not one of many ways to God, but rather is the only way to God, that is what the bible teaches.
@nyclear And I notice that you keep attributing this concept to me by saying that it's " your way", when in actuality I had nothing to do with this at all. What I want to clearify, is that all of this is based on what the scriptures say, not what I say or what i think it should mean to me personally according to my perspective, so I just wanted to make that perfectly clear.
@nyclear "The facts are messy and portrays G0d with less compassion than what I can muster."
On the conterary, there's nothing messy about the facts at all, your problem lies in the fact that because your stuck with this notion that God is a God of love, then this means that there's no reason to believe that God would do anything regarding physical damage or pain, cont----
@nyclear cont:--- but it's time for you to start waking up to reality, because the God of the bible does in fact inflict damage, and there's usually a purpose for it. You see, although God may be a God of love (and he is), you need to also realize that God is also a God of "Wrath", "Righteousness" and "Holiness", in fact if you do a glosery of the OT, most of the time, it's usually the "Holiness" of God that get's ephemasized a whole lot more then Gods love.
@nyclear So if your stuck with this idea that God is this all loving tedy bear hugging Father, then you need to throw that out of the window, because that's not who God is. Yes God is completly loving, merciful, and full of long suffering, but you can't forget that he is also very much "Holy","Wrathfull, and completly "Righteous", and you have to take that into account as well. His love does not exclude the rest of who he is.
@nyclear " If you heard that 500 people saw jesus rise again and we wrote down what he said & had all kinds of weird stuff, u would follow?"
Well, the intent of the explnation would need to be examined in order to come to the conclusion as to weather or not what these 500 people witnessed, was in fact evidently true.
@nyclear So first we need to take a look at the motivation for there explanation and figure out why exactly this was so iconic to the point where they risked there very own lives in trying to keep this message alive.
@nyclear Those who where there during the time that the resurrection took place, obviously had no reason to lie or make something like this up for the sake of, well...making stuff up, and how do we know that this is true? well we know that this is true because of the reaction of the disciples right after this event took place.
@nyclear The fact that they were willing to go through such great lengths to sacrifice themselves in order to keep the message of Jesus' resurrection alive as the hope for christianity, should raise an indication that what they witnessed, was in fact so real to the point that it changed there lives forever, even to the point that they where willing to give up there very lives, and well being for this teaching until death.
@nyclear Now, having said that, if this was indeed a fabrication, then logically there's nothing about it that would make any sence, why? because while it's true that people have died and or suffered because of a lie, people however don't risk there lives to the point of execution for a lie that they know full well to be completly false.
@demondagger19 I dont think you would follow a book that you found today that portrayed G0d as judging people because of their ancestors, and making it the only way to G0d even though billions would not be exposed to that book. You'd say G0d is so much greater than that, right? Millions have already lived and died without ever being exposed to the bible or any strong evidence that it's a valid path. Again, this would portray G0d as either dumb or evil. Which is impossible.
@nyclear " Millions have already lived and died without ever being exposed to the bible or any strong evidence that it's a valid path."
And yet at the sametime, there are millions of others who have heard the gospel also, and have also considered it to be a valid path as well, so your argument is quiet onesided and holds no water ether way.
@nyclear Further, interms of christianity being a valid path, if you take a look into the teaching of the "Atonement", it plays a big role as to why exactly christianity is a valid path to follow, especially interms of how it relates to Jesus himself, just putting it out there.
@demondagger19 so the point is, that you must know Jesus to be 'saved' idea is flawed because if we are agreeing that G0d is more compassionate than we can imagine, and I would never leave anybody high and dry as the bible is portrying or give them 'original sin' because of someone else's deeds 5000+ years ago. How can you say G0d is compassionate and in the same breath believe he would do such horrible things to people he created exactly as they are?
@nyclear " and I would never leave anybody high and dry as the bible is portrying or give them 'original sin' because of someone else's deeds 5000+ years ago."
First, the bible doesn't say or describe that God gave Adam and Eve original sin, but rather it describes that because of there disobediance to what God had commanded them not to do (Gen 2:15-17, 3:11), they became infected with original sin as an end result.
@nyclear So God wasn't the one who allowed them to inherite original sin, but rather, it was through there own disobediance that they inherited original sin (Gen 3:16-17), thus bringing death and suffering into the world (Rom 5:12). So that is incorrect.
@nyclear cont: So, how did Adam and Eve inherite original sin? The answer is, it was through there own disobediance that they inherited original sin, not God.
@demondagger19 how is that G0d's fault? I am saying it makes no sense. Do you realize that there are still places on the planet where there are people who have never used a phone let alone the internet? And just because someone has heard the gospel, it does not mean it rang true for them. You are thinking way to from your own perspective and not getting into the mindset of someone who has not every heard the gospel. I grew up in a 85% jewish town. cont
@nyclear Believe it or not, there are other resources in spreading the gospel as well, such as the dispatching of christian missonaries, and again, with the all the technology that we have today, spreading the gospel to other nations isn't exactly out of our reach because we have the resources to do so.
@nyclear " And just because someone has heard the gospel, it does not mean it rang true for them."
And you would know that how? You certainly don't speak for everyone, and nether are you capable of determining as to weather or not, that they themselves have actually excepted the gospel or have heard it first hand. You don't have the capacity to do so, so you can't attest on there behalf.
@demondagger19 no one has ever said anything to me that made me think the gospel was valid. If G0d were to send me to hell because I didn't believe or never had access to a book, that would be evil. Millions have died without being exposed to the Gospel. There are many books, why should I believe this one especially since I cannot go by experience according to you? You make it sound like everyone automatically takes it as the Word of G0d. That is BS. Sorry. cont
@nyclear And with all the vast information and resources around us today, you have a chance to at least look into and study christianity for yourself to gain a full understanding of it in order to make a rash and logical decision, rather then relying on some sort of non logical experiance that evidently can and will lead you in the wrong direction without you even being aware of it.
@nyclear You can't rely on personal experiances as your guide, why? because anything that may seem to be spiritually true, can and could be a spiritual desception from satan himself, and without a guidline (which is the word of God), you have no way of make a percise distinction between what's spiritually real, and what's spiritually desceptive.
@nyclear You have no basis that any of your experiances are in fact from God, and yet you believe that they are simply because you believe in your heart of hearts that it's from God, but there in lies the question, how do you know that in your heart of hearts, that any of your spiritual experiances, the premanitions, the fortelling of furture events coming to pass, etc, are in fact from God or from Satan himself? On what basis do your derive this assurance in descerning between the two?
@demondagger19 G0d guides my life so amazingly and communicates so profoundly to me, I have seen miracles from G0d's grace that would sound like science fiction to most. I am a healer and G0d speaks to me direclty all the time. Yet he never said one thing about the Gospel or guided me in that direction. Zero. So I should believe you and some others? Most I know are not great representatives of G0d, some are. I certainly know more loving Buddhists than Christians.
@nyclear " G0d guides my life so amazingly and communicates so profoundly to me, I have seen miracles from G0d's grace that would sound like science fiction to most."
Again, on what basis do you know as to weather or not it's God guiding you, speaking to you, and performing all these miracles that you believe has taken place in your life?
@nyclear For all you know, Satan could be the pepertraitor behind these miracles that you believe is from God in order to draw you away from him, but then again, you have no way of knowing this for certain, all you can do, is just simply go by your feelings and personal experiances and a blind belief in your heart, that everything you've experianced was from God.
@nyclear And oddly enough, this is the same basis that is used within certain cults such as Mormonism, and the New Age movement in trying to discover what truth is, and it's philosophies like this that places most folks in a state of experiantal extascy, in other words, logic, rationalisationism and reasoning are no longer the basis in discovering the truth, cont----
@nyclear ---cont : but rather, the only source for truth, is to just simply go by what one feels is right for the individual, and if the experiance matches what they feel, then atomatically it's true.
@nyclear ---cont : But in contrast to what the bible describes, the bible teaches that everyone believes that they are right in there own eyes, but that there ways ends in death (Prov 14:12), what this means is that, although many may believe that what they believe is true, however, people have no way of knowing for certain that there ways are true, and thus will end up leading themselves into self-destruction.
@nyclear ---cont : That is logical, why? because no one has the ability to know or determine there own fate, nor are they capable of determining the outcome of there own furture, it's always going to be uncertain, and that's what makes this philosophy so dangerous.
@nyclear ---cont : This is why the bible says "Trust in the Lord with all your heat, and lean not on your own understanding, in all your ways acknowlege him, and he will direct your path" (Proverbs Chapter 3),
@nyclear cont---- basically what's being said here, is that if we trust in the Lord, place him first in our lives, and not depend on our own understanding rather then Gods, then God will direct us in the direction that we need to go, and since God knows all things, then the logical choice would be to trust in his judgement of what it's right for us, not ourselves.
@demondagger19 we will have to agree to disagree. I am more compassionate than what you describe G0d has done to all of humanity because the first two humans were our representatives?! Would you do that if you were given the power? I think not. And then G0d absolutely would be infinitely more compassionate than what you describe. I know some jerks who would be more compassionate than that so to make G0d sound like a jerk and then tell me to follow the book? come on!
@nyclear " I am more compassionate than what you describe G0d has done to all of humanity because the first two humans were our representatives?!"
And what did God do exactly? If your implying that he gave them a sin nature on purpose only to judge them after words because of it, then again that is incorrect, cont---
@nyclear ---- cont : and I've already explained to you earlier that it was because of Adam and Eve's sin of "Disobediance" (which is what condemned them to death spiritually), that they inherited a sin nature as an end result, that is how they became stained of original sin.
@nyclear@nyclear ---- cont : So again, God had nothing to do with it. God gave them a command, they disobayed, and as an end result they where punished for it, it's that simple. if God where to just fluff it off as being completly irrelevent, then God would not be a just God.
@nyclear ---- cont : The bottom line is this, with every action, there is always a consiquence, and in Adam and Eve's case, dispite the fact that they were warned of the consiquences before hand (that they where going to die if they eat the fruit), they still descided to do the complete opposite of what God had already originally commanded them not to do.
@nyclear ---- cont : Not to mentioned warned about as well. Basically, they didn't abide by what God had already told them, and as an end result, they where punished for it, in fact, the both of them where already aware of the consiquences which makes the punishment all the more fair (see Gen 2:15-17, 3:2-3), so how is God unjust in punishing them for an action that they themselves already knew would doom themselves spiritually?
@nyclear ---- cont : Obviously, there was nothing unjust about it, he had the right to punish them. It's surprises me that you say that your more compassionate then the God of the bible is, considering the fact that the compassion that your trying to compare in relation to God, isn't compassion at all when we compare the two, in fact, I'd say that is pretty unjust to say the least, especially when it pertains an action that is clearly in defiance of what is good.
@nyclear ---- cont : In todays day an age, there's a saying that says "Rules are made to be broken", but the reality is, without rules, there is chaos, it's that simple, the reasons why we have rules, is to not only keep ourselves in order, but it is also made as a guidline to protect us from postential dangers that we don't see, and it's the same when it comes to God.
@nyclear ---- cont : God gave them a command or rule, "The Lord God commanded the man. He said, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden. But you must never eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because when you eat from it, you will certainly die." (Gen 2:16-17).
@nyclear The danger that they could not see, was the after effect of eating the fruit (which is spiritual death), that is what God was trying to protect them from, but the moment they broke this rule, they brought upon themselves the judgement of God and became stained with sin as an end result, so, who's fault is that, Adam and Eve's? or Gods? I think you'll find that the answer is obviouse.
@demondagger19 If you believe that G0d is all powerful all knowing, the creator of everything, then how could anything exist that G0d does not know about, did not create, or did not know the outcome of? If I can be very tapped in future events (through G0d's grace) then certainly nothing is going to happen that G0d did not know. Only the human and his mind is limited by time and space. So to say G0d is all knowing but didn't know how something was going to go down is really limited thinking.
@demondagger19 it is your way if you say 'the' scriptures when you really mean the ones you follow. You are not quoting the Vivekachudamani I am guessing.
@nyclear " it is your way if you say 'the' scriptures when you really mean the ones you follow. You are not quoting the Vivekachudamani I am guessing."
Uh, no. When I say "The Scriptures", I'm refuring to "The Bible", not another book.
@nyclear Also, to be a sinner because of what others did? Who put the serpent in the garden in the first place? Did G0d not know exactly how it would go down? He knows all? And knowing all, he set this whole thing to go down and now I am a sinner and he also set it up for me not to believe a book to be true so now I go to hell? Do you realize what that sounds like?
@nyclear Nothing like the God of the bible, that's for sure lol. This wasn't a set up at all, in fact if you read the Genesis story in (Genesis chapters 2-3), it nowhere describes what your talking about. The serpent wasn't placed in the garden by God (which is what I think your trying to imply), rather the serpent descided to invade the garden by it's own accord in order to tempt eve into eating the forbidden fruit, so God had nothing to do with it.
@nyclear Secondly, if you read the 2nd chapter in the Book of Genesis, then you would also know that it describes that God had made a command known to Adam that he was allowed to eat from any other tree in the garden, except from one perticular tree, which was the "Tree of The Knowlege of Good and Evil".
@nyclear So clearly what's being demonstrated here, is the fact that God had already provided everything for him to sustain himself, but on the other hand had one command that was given to him, and that was to not eat from one perticular tree in the garden, in fact, further on in the same story, God is also described as giving Adam a warning of what exactly would happen if he were to eat from the tree that he was told not to eat from.
@nyclear Now with that being said, let me ask you this question, as we can see in both (Genesis Chapters 2-3), adam was warned by God, provided for by God in having his all physical needs taken care of, and was given a command of what he needed to do, which was to take care of Gods creation (see Chapter 1), now with all that information given to him, and let alone having all his physical needs taken care of, how then world is God to blame for adams screw up?
@demondagger19 I think you are a great guy and smart too. But I can tell you this: It is not that we don't WANT TO go through Jesus, we see no evidence to believe that story to be true. In fact it doesn't compute at all for me. Do you really think the 4 billion people on the planet are other religions because we don't want to accept G0d through your religion? That is kind of egotistical if you ask me. If you were born in Iran you would probably be Muslim right now.
@nyclear Actually, there are many Muslims in other countries (not just iran), who convert from Islam to christianity as well, so it isn't based on the location of where an individual is from. In fact, a great example of this is with "Abram" in the Book of Genesis.
@nyclear Abram's family was a household that both worshipped, and even created idols, so before Abram even knew who "Yahweh" was, his family line was perticularily pagan in origin to begin with, and it wasn't until later on, that the God of the Israelites called out to him in following him to leave his family in order to become the father of the iseralite nation (Gen 12:1-3).
@nyclear So no matter the religous practice, location, or perticular natonality or culture, God has a way of letting himself be known to others in none christian backgrounds as well, there is no one un-reachable for God no matter who they are.
@demondagger19 there are many people on the planet never even exposed to the ideas of Jesus. If the idea that you go to hell if you don't accept Jesus is true, then please send me to hell because there are a lot of wonderful, kind, G0d Loving people going there just because they thought the ideas in a book were incorrect and I will continue to serve them there. What an evil G0d that depicts, that people don't believe something so they get punished. That is so beyond nutz to me. Sorry.
@nyclear " there are many people on the planet never even exposed to the ideas of Jesus."
Ya, and that's why we have many missonaries spreading the gospel in various places of the world so that others can have an opporunity to hear about Jesus.
@nyclear Do you really think that the gospel is only limited to only those within the western world? Obviously it's not, and there are plenty of organizations supporting people in the cause of getting the gospel out there so that others can hear of who Jesus is. And with all the technology that we have today, the resources for doing so have been achieved. So that's a pretty poor excuse.
@nyclear " If the idea that you go to hell if you don't accept Jesus is true, then please send me to hell because there are a lot of wonderful, kind, G0d Loving people going there just because they thought the ideas in a book were incorrect and I will continue to serve them there."
Question: Do you know why Jesus is the only way humanity can be saved?
@demondagger19 you missed my point. The point isn't whether or not people can be reached or not. The point is there are many who never were, and never will be and according to the bible, are not saved. Yes people make great effort to the the word out. But I know that G0d would never leave someone high and dry because they either never got word of Jesus or were not convinced by the missionaries. I was never convinced, so perhaps the ones trying to do the convincing should go to helll lol!
@nyclear "The point is there are many who never were, and never will be and according to the bible, are not saved."
Again, you have no way of varifying that factually in ether case, so you can't attest for everyone else on there behalf in the generalisationing that those individuals have never heard or never will hear the gospel, you simply don't know.
@nyclear Secondly, if there are some who choose to reject the gospel message while they had the opprotunity to hear it (and most people are within this catagory), then that is there fault.
@nyclear No one on judgement day can blame someone else for the choices that they themselves have made, they can't say to God "That guy over there didn't convince me enough that the gospel was true, so it's his fault that I'm going to hell", sorry, but it doesn't work that way, because it's not anyones job to do so. So while the gospel may be presented, what people decide to do with the information being given to them, is up to them.
@nyclear So It's going to be between them and God, not the person who presented the gospel to them in the first place. It's not anyones job to convince people that the gospel is true, instead, the bible describes that it only needs to be proclaimed (Matt 28:19), and by the power of the holy spirit, those who hear it, will be saved if they turn to Jesus in faith.
@nyclear However, if there are argumentations to support the gospel, then that is also equally appropriate as well, in fact, the bible describes that we are to give an answer for the hope that we have (1 Peter 3:15) and also to defend the faith as well (Jude 3).
Also, it's usually those who reject the gospel message that tend to already have a misunderstood, preconcieved biased notion against it to begin with, thus claiming that it has no validity to it at all. But this isn't a surprise because even the bible describes that the gospel is going to be foolishness to those who are perishing (1 Cor 1:18), why? because it is of a spiritual catagory (Chapter 2:14).
@nyclear Bottom line is this, the natural man isn't going to know the things of the spirit (such as the cross), because he does not posses the holy spirit in order to understand it's true meaning. And if you don't believe me, then ask any unbeliever if they actually understand the full significance or meaning for why Jesus died on the cross. Not one of them will provide a sufficiant response regarding it.
@demondagger19 I think we should stop this back and forth chat. My only hope was to perhaps have you see that there are other ways of serving and knowing G0d than your's only. That what I said proves that there has to be another way other wise G0d is an mean G0d which we both is not true (he created 'being mean' and can destroy it if he wants too, so he wouldn't be limited like that). I wish you the best and hope you find you salvation at the end of the road.
@nyclear " I think we should stop this back and forth chat. My only hope was to perhaps have you see that there are other ways of serving and knowing G0d than your's only."
Well, I don't really see why you would need to do so, but if you want to then that's completly fine by me.
@nyclear But to be honest, I actually found this discussion to be very interesting, although it's a very time consuming process lol. I think it's good to have discussions like this because it provides an opprotunity for people to provide an explanation for why they believe what they believe.
@nyclear Anyone can easily say they that believe in a certain belief, philosophy or there own ideals, but if there's no reason as to why, then why exactly hold to that belief or ideals? Challenging the ideals and philosophies of others is not wrong, but very constructive, and we can learn allot from it as well as long as it's done in respect.
@nyclear And I understand where your coming from in regards to the idea that there are many other spiritual paths to God, this is what's called "Universalism", a common belief that's held by most who object to the view that there is only one way to God, or that there are other spiritual truths other then christianity.
@nyclear However the reality is that none of us actually thinks or there lives that way, and this conversation is proof of it, you believe just like I do that one of us is wrong, and that the other is right, thus indicating that we both don't believe that we are correct in our objections, in fact, that's why we have debates, discussions, disagreements, etc, everyone in one way or another believes that they are the only ones who are right, including yourself.
@nyclear So you don't live your life that way even though you hold to that philosophy, the same can also be said of certain religious beliefs as well.
@nyclear All religions do not lead to the same God nor believe or teach the samethings, why? because it's like I've mentioned before, according to every religion in regards to there core doctrines, every religion out there is exclusive within and of themselves, thus excluding every other belief in contrast, and If you don't believe me, then let's take a look into the beliefs of christianity and islam in regards to Jesus Christ as an example.
@nyclear Both Islam and Christianity hold to the teaching that Jesus Christ was a prophet and a man, but in contrast, christianity holds to the view that Jesus Christ was not only a prophet and man, but that he was also divine as well.
@nyclear Clearly, they both do not agree with each other and hence cannot lead to the belief in the same God, why? because they both cancel each other out due to there differing docternal beliefs. And as far as believing that all religions hold to the same spiritual truths, this however is also completly false, why? because truth itself is exclusive by definition.
@nyclear " I wish you the best and hope you find you salvation at the end of the road."
I wish you the best as well bud, and believe me, I've already found where salvation lies, and it rests in Jesus alone, and I pray that the Lord will open your eyes to his truth, and bring you clarity through all this vauge and contradictory ideals of this world to bring you to himself. Godbless.
I think g0d is depicted as evil in the bible which is why i think it's not an accurate book.. How can you think an all knowing Being could create man fully knowing that there was a good chance some of them would be a certain way and then send them to eternal hell for being that way? If he knows all and creates all and he set it up so people might eternally suffer? I am just a man and I would never do this so certainly an all Loving G0d would NEVER dot his. This is why bible is wrong.
nyclear 4 months ago
the only evil in the world is unconciousness , jesus christ was a highly concious being thats what set him apart , we all have the potential to be highly concious
CORRIGEEN71 6 months ago
@CORRIGEEN71 This could be why when asked if the Kingdom was coming, Jesus said, "The Kingdom is inside you." Also said something to the affect of, "I have transcended this world, just as you must do." and I quote, "He who makes friends with this world, makes himself an enemy of God." So I believe he's stating for humanity to take the leap into becoming conscious beings.
rcnoe71 4 months ago
@rcnoe71 AHEM!!!!
nyclear 4 months ago
@rcnoe71 AMEN even! lol
nyclear 4 months ago
This is clearly rapped up in Spiritualism. Compared to Christianity, it is not compatible, and that much is very clear.
demondagger19 1 year ago
@demondagger19 depends on how you practice either
nyclear 4 months ago
@nyclear Actually, it depends on what the scriptures say, because that is our guideline for all truth, not our experiances. Spiritualism is misguided and further leaves one completly open to all sorts of spiritual desception, and without the word of God, we can fall pray to being decieved into believing a lie.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 Many scriptures say many things. Are you talking about new and old Testament or another one? How can you know a book isn't a deception if you go by that? You were not there when it was written (and neither was Jesus). I am not saying don't follow a book you believe in but reading a book is an experience. There is no proof in a book written thousands of years ago. It can say there were witnesses but you don't really know.
nyclear 4 months ago
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@nyclear "Are you talking about new and old Testament or another one?"
The OT and NT.
"How can you know a book isn't a deception if you go by that? You were not there when it was written (and neither was Jesus)."
Actually, long before the scriptures where even written, Jesus already existed, in fact, Jesus even mentions this when he described himself as living long before "Abraham" (see John 8:58).
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear Further, the reason why we can know that the bible isn't a desception, is due to it's historicity, prophecy, manuscript evidence and archeological evidence as well, not just because of it's religious significance. So, eyewitness testimonies aren't the only source for knowing as to wether or not the bible is the word of God, although that is another sufficiant source to draw from also.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 How does archeology prove if the words in a book were actually Jesus's and how does it prove that anything said was not misunderstood? Prophecy, like experience could be easily used for deception purposes, no? I have had direct experiences with knowing details of events to come down to the minute details. I think someone more powerful than I, good or evil could do the same and more.
nyclear 4 months ago
@nyclear "How does archeology prove if the words in a book were actually Jesus's and how does it prove that anything said was not misunderstood?"
I ment in relations to the places and ancient relics that the bible mentions, that's it.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 I am surprised that someone so smart would make a distinction of having utter faith in places and ancient relics to prove to yourself that the bible is real versus trusting your own heart. Jesus himself said the kingdom is within so why not trust the kingdom within? I also think it would be a lot easier for a 'devil' to manipulate the outer world than the inner world. My inner landscape is where I have direct communion with G0d and is protected. Obviously out here is less
nyclear 4 months ago
@nyclear "I am surprised that someone so smart would make a distinction of having utter faith in places and ancient relics to prove to yourself that the bible is real versus trusting your own heart."
I never that said I had faith in ancient relics and places in order to substantiate as to weather or not the bible the is word of God.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear cont--- but what I was trying to demonstrate, is that although the bible does have a religious aspect to it, it also has a historical value as well, that's all I was trying to get across.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear "Jesus himself said the kingdom is within so why not trust the kingdom within?"
That's not what Jesus meant by that statement if you read it in context, the context of the passage is speaking about the coming of kingdom of God.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear cont--not about some sort of spiritual place of peace within them, because that's not what the text is saying. cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear According to the story from the Gospel of Luke, Jesus answers the statement of the pharasees question regarding the coming of the kingdom of God, but Jesus replies by saying that they aren't going to be able to physically see the kingdom of God (which is what they where expecting, an actual physical royal fortress of some sort), but rather the kingdom of God would be "within them" (meaning the disciples) or (depending on the translation) "among them".
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear cont-- or "Among you". This then indicates that the kingdom of God will be or is displayed or established through the disciples themselves. So it is through the disciples that people will recognize or see the kingdom of God on earth.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear So the context of the story has nothing to do with some sort of spiritual haven within them that they can look to for spiritual guidence, that's not what the text is saying at all, but rather it's saying that the kingdom of God (through the disciples) will be seen on earth or is already established on earth through them, that is what the text talking about.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear "I also think it would be a lot easier for a 'devil' to manipulate the outer world than the inner world. My inner landscape is where I have direct communion with G0d and is protected."
Actually, as long as your alive and kickin on earth, the devil holds most of the cards when it comes to manipulating, influencing and tempting us whenever he wants to because of the sin nature of our flesh. So ether way, your still satans chew toy until Jesus comes back again.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear "Prophecy, like experience could be easily used for deception purposes, no?"
Yes it can, but it depends on the source of where the prophecy comes from, but to clearify, a prophecy isn't some sort of outer body experiance or some kind of feeling of complete peace, but rather, a prophecy is a message that pertains to the perdiction of certain future events, that is what a prophecy is.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear Further, there's also something else that needs to be mentioned whenever it comes to prophecy, and that is that not all prophecy comes from God, in fact, some prophecy's can be influenced by a demonic source if one is not careful (see Acts 16:16), the same can also be said of supernatural experiances as well. This is why descernment is key espescially when it comes to prophecy, and without the word of God, that's not possible.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear "I have had direct experiences with knowing details of events to come down to the minute details. I think someone more powerful than I, good or evil could do the same and more."
True, and having said that, let me ask you this question, on what basis do you know as to where exactly your source of intele comes from in gaining these supernatural experiances to have the ability to perdict the future?
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 BTW, do you know how to respond directly to a comment from the inbox without having to track down the spot in the comments list? Thanks.
nyclear 4 months ago
@nyclear Sorry man, no clue, but it would make responding to comments a whole lot easier instead of having to look through all these comments, just to respond to one after another. The only way that I think your gonna be able to respond to comments directly from your inbox, is if someone sends you a personal message or something, but honeslty I'm not entirly sure.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear "There is no proof in a book written thousands of years ago. It can say there were witnesses but you don't really know."
Actually, we can thanks to a little something called "Archeology".
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear "I am not saying don't follow a book you believe in but reading a book is an experience."
Uh...actually, reading a book is exactly that, it's reading a book, there's nothing spiritually experimental about it, although the bible does have a spiritual aspect to it.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 Also, I am not doubting that Jesus performed miracles and I believe he was a master. But the bible says some pretty outlandish things that I cannot support. Like saying it's ok to have slaves in the old testament and also that we should kill anyone working on the Sabbath. And in the new testament is basically says that Jesus said he was not there to refute the old testament but to fufill it. That means he's ok with slaves etc?
nyclear 4 months ago
@nyclear "Like saying it's ok to have slaves in the old testament and also that we should kill anyone working on the Sabbath."
Well, before we make any rash conclusions, we need to first take a look at the context of the culture of that era regarding both slavery and the sabbath.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear The first thing that we need to recognize when it comes to slavery, is that it was apart of the culture of that time, in fact, in some cases, slavery was one of the ways in which a person needed to do in order to make a living in providing for there families and themselves as well. It's not like today where we now have missonaries going to various countries in providing food or moral support, none of that existed back then, so life was very hard for survival.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear Now, regarding the sabbath, the significance of the sabbath was to commemorate the creation period of when God completed the creation the world in the Book of Genesis.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear According to the Genesis account, it describes that when everything was created in six days, God completed the creation of the world and rested on the seventh day, making it holy. The number 7 plays a key role in regards to the sabbath, because the number 7 represents completion.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear So there's obviously a reason for why the sabbath is highly signified. Further, the bible nowhere says that christians are to kill anyone on the sabbath, in fact, according to the "Ten Commandments" in the Book of Exodus and Deuteronomy, it describes that doing any of the sort is forbidden, so that would be unlikly.
demondagger19 4 months ago
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@nyclear cont--"And in the new testament is basically says that Jesus said he was not there to refute the old testament but to fufill it. That means he's ok with slaves etc?"
No, what it means is that Jesus came to fullfill what the scriptures already prophecied long before hand, such as for example suffering by crucifixtion (see The Book of Zachariah & The Book of Psalms), and suffering by humiliation, rejection, and a bloody death (see The book of Isaiah).
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 My point in all this is not to disprove the bible. My only point is that the bible does not have any more proof than other scriptures and the only way you can really know if it is right for you is within. Which is why I know in my heart of hearts that there are many paths to G0d, not just one no matter what any book says. If a book has to be taken into context because of the time in history, then we have to pick and choose which parts are still applicable. Not an absolute then
nyclear 4 months ago
@nyclear "Which is why I know in my heart of hearts that there are many paths to G0d,"
Well, theoretically that may be plausible to you personally, but in reality we know that that's not the way reality works, not all roads lead to the same place, or (spiritually speaking), not all spiritual paths lead to the same God, and this needs to be emphasized greatly.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear You see, although many religions may teach the belief in God, they do not however pertain to the same one, and we know this because of the fact that according to the many religions in regards to there core doctrines, they are all completly exclusive to one another, and thus are completly contradictory as an end result.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear In other words, many religions because of there docternal beliefs, are disagreeable and therefore cannot co-exist with each other, and hence do not agree to the belief in the same God.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 i don't understand how people can believe that G0d would deny his love to good, honest caring people who love Him and his creation because they followed one religion over another. To me that would be evil considering G0d knows what's going to happen before you are even born. Why would he even create the idea of something being wrong enough to punish you eternally? Not the G0d I Iove. He is kinder than that. That's just scummy, G0d would not be that evil.
nyclear 4 months ago
@nyclear "i don't understand how people can believe that G0d would deny his love to good, honest caring people who love Him and his creation because they followed one religion over another."
And since when did God deny his love to anyone? According to the Book of Romans, it describes that God has already demonstrated his love by showing that while we were still sinners, he sent Jesus to die for our sins (Chapter 5:8).
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear Further, in the Gospel of John, the same theme is also described as well, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son" (Chapter 3:16). So, is Gods love exclusive to just one particular group of people? Obviously not, God loved everyone to the point that he chose to sacrifice the very one he loved emensly (his very own son), in order to save a sinful undeserving race like us from an eternal hell that we desvered, that is how much he loved us.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear So Gods love is not exclusive to anyone, everyone has access in recieving his love, but however the only problem is that many don't want to go through Jesus to recieve it.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear " Why would he even create the idea of something being wrong enough to punish you eternally?"
First, he never created this as an idea to spite humanity, and we need to get that straight. cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear The key problem here is about the problem of "Sin" which is what the bible describes as a "Trasgression" or a "Breaking" of Gods commands (see 1 John 3:4), and since God is an infinite, just and holy God, then any sins commited in the breaking of his holy law, requires an infinite punishment as an end result.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear So logically, it's as follows, if you break the laws of the legal system (for example), weather it's murder, theft, or even the destroying of private property, then you have to pay for it by ether doing some jail time or by doing some community service depending on the crime that was commited, so ether way, there's always a punishment that has to be established in ether case, because it is a violation of the laws themselves, cont---
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear ----cont: and in the same way, because God is a very holy and just God, then the punishment for breaking his laws must be established as well, otherwise he can't be considered to be a just God if he allows even one sin to go unpunished. So while God may be a loving God, you have to also take into account the fact that he is also a God of justice, righteousness and complete and utter holiness. You can't have one, without the other.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear --cont: Sins, no matter how great or small they may be, must be punished ether towards the individual themselves, or by something else in the place of the individual, so ether way, justice must be executed. But luckily we don't have to take that punishment towards ourselves, why? because God (out of love for us), sent Jesus as a replacement for us so that we wouldn't have to suffer his wrath. He sent Jesus to lay his wrath on him, rather then on us because he loved us.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear --cont: This is why the bible says in the Book of 1 John, it describes Jesus as the atoning sacrifice for our sins. So instead of giving us what we deserved, which is hell and eternal punishment, he instead descided to lay that punishment on his son, and through that sacrifice, we intern recieve his forgivness by excepting his sons atoning sacrifice on our behalf, thus protecting us from the wrath of God that we deserve.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear --cont: So, it is through the death of his only and loved son, that Gods wrath was satisfied, and his holy justice was established in the process as well, and all of this took place simuntaniously at the cross. It was at this scene that both justice and mercy was displayed and poured out towards us as sinners. None of this is anything that we deserved, but he did all anyway to bring us back into a relationship with him, a relationship that was once broken because of sin.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear --cont: So while the god you may follow is loving, however, (and I must say this because it's the truth), is not just or righteous as the God of the bible is, why? because if all that he is is loving, then any sins being committed can easily be fluffed off without the need of establishing any punishment for them, but with that quality, any sins being committed can and will become exceptable which in essence isn't just or righteous at all.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear That's like having a judge with no standerds or liability in establishing a punishment for a crime that was committed, all because he or she believes it's going to be to harsh of a punishment for the individual, but that's not how reality works, and clearly, that's not how the God of the bible operaites.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 Anytime I can be more compassionate than how G0d is described in a book I know something is not 100% with that book. I would NEVER have a being born already a 'sinner'! How evil would that be? I am going to create you already a sinner and then it's up to you to be influenced in the right way to believe in one of many books on the planet? Good luuuuck kiddo!! Come on, that would be evil. G0d would NEVER do that.
nyclear 4 months ago
@nyclear Your right, he wouldn't, and there's nowhere in the bible that says that he did any of the sort as well.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear According to what the bible says or describes, all of humanity was born into sin, why? because of adam and eve's disobediance (Genesis 3), so now the question becomes, why then is the rest of humanity guilty for adam and eve's choice in sinning against God when we had nothing to do with it ? cont---
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear The answer lies in the fact that because adam and eve where the first human beings, this then made them representatives of humanity, and thus made them liable in making a choice for the rest of humanity also.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 my point is, there are tons that never will read the bible or talk to someone who has. The inconsistency is that if Jesus is the only way and G0d doesn't give everyone an opportunity to connect with the understanding, G0d would be evil in that case. Considering he created everything and set everything in motion, created all etc. How can I follow a book that portrays G0d this way? Or judges me as a sinner because of what my ancestors did? That is evil, not of G0d
nyclear 4 months ago
@nyclear "my point is, there are tons that never will read the bible or talk to someone who has."
And how is that Gods fault? In todays world where information is so easily transfured and vast, ether through the usage of technology, or by people through organizations, the chances of people gaining access to the gospel isn't exactly out of there reach, so in ether case, people will have the chance in hearing the gospel in some way, or another.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear Further, if people are not willing to read the bible, or willing to talk to someone about the gospel in wanting to understand it whenever it's presented to them, then how in the world is that Gods fault in the individuals complete rejection of it to begin with? If they choose to reject Gods gift of salvation in Christ, then that is there choice. My friend, you should be glad that God even made a way for people to be saved to begin with, because he didn't have to.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear "The inconsistency is that if Jesus is the only way and G0d doesn't give everyone an opportunity to connect with the understanding,"
Notice that you said "and God doesn't give an opprotunity", this however is completly false, God does and has always given an oppertunity for anyone and everyone to repent of there sins, and as an added bonus, he even provides warnings as well, but does anyone ever listen? No, they don't, and as an end result, they doom themselves.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear *doesn't give everyone an opportunity*, sorry, I forgot to put everyone, I made a little mistake.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 could you imagine if our court system said you were guilty because your great great grandfather was a murderer? You would think this was unfair and lacking any wisdom. How can I follow a book that states that G0d 'thinks' this way? That my original ancestor did something wrong by being tricked by another being that G0d put there in the first place? So Now I am guilty for that? Not the One God. Anytime I man can be more compassionate that how you portray G0d I cant follow
nyclear 4 months ago
@nyclear "could you imagine if our court system said you were guilty because your great great grandfather was a murderer?"
Except that's not what the bible describes in the Book of Genesis, what your doing is twisting the meaning of the story being protrayed, because that's not what the story is saying.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear According to the Genesis account, the story describes that it was the end result of Adam and Eve's sins that resulted in the rest of humanity becoming guilty before God, and I've already mentioned to you earlier as to why, and the reason was because both Adam and Eve where both representatives of humanity, thus giving them full responisbility to act on our behalf since they where the only beings that God gave in having complete authority over the earth (Chapter 1:28).
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear So, since they both represented humanity as a whole, any choices that they made was an implication on our part as well, in other words, because they represented us entirily, we all are to blame for making the same choices that they've made, and that was to rebel against Gods commands, and as evidence each sin that we commit is a direct reflection of that, in fact, that's what the bible describes sin as (1 John 3:4).
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear From Adam and Eve, to Cail and Abel, sin has always had it's implications of being the complete opposite of what God had ordained, and we see results of this all throughout the bible, from "Murder" (Genesis 4) "Pride" (Genesis 11), "Sexual perversion" (Genesis 19), "Idolitry" (Exodus 32, Jeremiah 7-44, 1 Kings 14:23-24, Acts 17), to "Witchcraft and False Spirituality" (Deuteronomy 18, Acts 8:9-11, 16:16), and "False Prophecy" (Deuteronomy 13).
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear All of this is just a few examples of the effects of sin which we brought upon ourselves through Adam and Eve, so, who is to blame for all this? The answer is obviously us, we screwed up, not God.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear "That my original ancestor did something wrong by being tricked by another being that G0d put there in the first place?"
Question: Where in the story of Genesis does it say that God put the serpent in the garden of eden to begin with?
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 I am not saying it is not a valid path to G0d but to think that your way is the only way with all these antequated ideas, portraying G0d as this egomaniac, and then saying don't go by how you feel within but by the facts of the book? The facts are messy and portrays G0d with less compassion than what I can muster. And we both know that is impossible. If you heard that 500 people saw jesus rise again and we wrote down what he said & had all kinds of weird stuff, u would follow?
nyclear 4 months ago
@nyclear " I am not saying it is not a valid path to G0d"
No, but what your saying is that there are many spiritual paths to God other then Jesus Christ, but in contrast to what the bible describes, that's not what the bible teaches.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear @nyclear According to what the bible describes, there is only one way to God, and that is through Jesus Christ alone, not through anyone or anything else apart from him. In fact, Jesus describes this exact same discription when he said "I am the way" (John 14:6). So no, Jesus is not one of many ways to God, but rather is the only way to God, that is what the bible teaches.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear And I notice that you keep attributing this concept to me by saying that it's " your way", when in actuality I had nothing to do with this at all. What I want to clearify, is that all of this is based on what the scriptures say, not what I say or what i think it should mean to me personally according to my perspective, so I just wanted to make that perfectly clear.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear "The facts are messy and portrays G0d with less compassion than what I can muster."
On the conterary, there's nothing messy about the facts at all, your problem lies in the fact that because your stuck with this notion that God is a God of love, then this means that there's no reason to believe that God would do anything regarding physical damage or pain, cont----
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear cont:--- but it's time for you to start waking up to reality, because the God of the bible does in fact inflict damage, and there's usually a purpose for it. You see, although God may be a God of love (and he is), you need to also realize that God is also a God of "Wrath", "Righteousness" and "Holiness", in fact if you do a glosery of the OT, most of the time, it's usually the "Holiness" of God that get's ephemasized a whole lot more then Gods love.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear So if your stuck with this idea that God is this all loving tedy bear hugging Father, then you need to throw that out of the window, because that's not who God is. Yes God is completly loving, merciful, and full of long suffering, but you can't forget that he is also very much "Holy","Wrathfull, and completly "Righteous", and you have to take that into account as well. His love does not exclude the rest of who he is.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear " If you heard that 500 people saw jesus rise again and we wrote down what he said & had all kinds of weird stuff, u would follow?"
Well, the intent of the explnation would need to be examined in order to come to the conclusion as to weather or not what these 500 people witnessed, was in fact evidently true.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear So first we need to take a look at the motivation for there explanation and figure out why exactly this was so iconic to the point where they risked there very own lives in trying to keep this message alive.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear Those who where there during the time that the resurrection took place, obviously had no reason to lie or make something like this up for the sake of, well...making stuff up, and how do we know that this is true? well we know that this is true because of the reaction of the disciples right after this event took place.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear The fact that they were willing to go through such great lengths to sacrifice themselves in order to keep the message of Jesus' resurrection alive as the hope for christianity, should raise an indication that what they witnessed, was in fact so real to the point that it changed there lives forever, even to the point that they where willing to give up there very lives, and well being for this teaching until death.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear Now, having said that, if this was indeed a fabrication, then logically there's nothing about it that would make any sence, why? because while it's true that people have died and or suffered because of a lie, people however don't risk there lives to the point of execution for a lie that they know full well to be completly false.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 I dont think you would follow a book that you found today that portrayed G0d as judging people because of their ancestors, and making it the only way to G0d even though billions would not be exposed to that book. You'd say G0d is so much greater than that, right? Millions have already lived and died without ever being exposed to the bible or any strong evidence that it's a valid path. Again, this would portray G0d as either dumb or evil. Which is impossible.
nyclear 4 months ago
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@nyclear " Millions have already lived and died without ever being exposed to the bible or any strong evidence that it's a valid path."
And yet at the sametime, there are millions of others who have heard the gospel also, and have also considered it to be a valid path as well, so your argument is quiet onesided and holds no water ether way.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear Further, interms of christianity being a valid path, if you take a look into the teaching of the "Atonement", it plays a big role as to why exactly christianity is a valid path to follow, especially interms of how it relates to Jesus himself, just putting it out there.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 so the point is, that you must know Jesus to be 'saved' idea is flawed because if we are agreeing that G0d is more compassionate than we can imagine, and I would never leave anybody high and dry as the bible is portrying or give them 'original sin' because of someone else's deeds 5000+ years ago. How can you say G0d is compassionate and in the same breath believe he would do such horrible things to people he created exactly as they are?
nyclear 4 months ago
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@nyclear " and I would never leave anybody high and dry as the bible is portrying or give them 'original sin' because of someone else's deeds 5000+ years ago."
First, the bible doesn't say or describe that God gave Adam and Eve original sin, but rather it describes that because of there disobediance to what God had commanded them not to do (Gen 2:15-17, 3:11), they became infected with original sin as an end result.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear So God wasn't the one who allowed them to inherite original sin, but rather, it was through there own disobediance that they inherited original sin (Gen 3:16-17), thus bringing death and suffering into the world (Rom 5:12). So that is incorrect.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear cont: So, how did Adam and Eve inherite original sin? The answer is, it was through there own disobediance that they inherited original sin, not God.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 how is that G0d's fault? I am saying it makes no sense. Do you realize that there are still places on the planet where there are people who have never used a phone let alone the internet? And just because someone has heard the gospel, it does not mean it rang true for them. You are thinking way to from your own perspective and not getting into the mindset of someone who has not every heard the gospel. I grew up in a 85% jewish town. cont
nyclear 4 months ago
@nyclear "Do you realize that there are still places on the planet where there are people who have never used a phone let alone the internet?"
And since when is the spreading of the gospel only limited through the usage phones and the internet?
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear Believe it or not, there are other resources in spreading the gospel as well, such as the dispatching of christian missonaries, and again, with the all the technology that we have today, spreading the gospel to other nations isn't exactly out of our reach because we have the resources to do so.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear " And just because someone has heard the gospel, it does not mean it rang true for them."
And you would know that how? You certainly don't speak for everyone, and nether are you capable of determining as to weather or not, that they themselves have actually excepted the gospel or have heard it first hand. You don't have the capacity to do so, so you can't attest on there behalf.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 no one has ever said anything to me that made me think the gospel was valid. If G0d were to send me to hell because I didn't believe or never had access to a book, that would be evil. Millions have died without being exposed to the Gospel. There are many books, why should I believe this one especially since I cannot go by experience according to you? You make it sound like everyone automatically takes it as the Word of G0d. That is BS. Sorry. cont
nyclear 4 months ago
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@nyclear " no one has ever said anything to me that made me think the gospel was valid."
Well now you have the opprotunity. cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear And with all the vast information and resources around us today, you have a chance to at least look into and study christianity for yourself to gain a full understanding of it in order to make a rash and logical decision, rather then relying on some sort of non logical experiance that evidently can and will lead you in the wrong direction without you even being aware of it.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear You can't rely on personal experiances as your guide, why? because anything that may seem to be spiritually true, can and could be a spiritual desception from satan himself, and without a guidline (which is the word of God), you have no way of make a percise distinction between what's spiritually real, and what's spiritually desceptive.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear You have no basis that any of your experiances are in fact from God, and yet you believe that they are simply because you believe in your heart of hearts that it's from God, but there in lies the question, how do you know that in your heart of hearts, that any of your spiritual experiances, the premanitions, the fortelling of furture events coming to pass, etc, are in fact from God or from Satan himself? On what basis do your derive this assurance in descerning between the two?
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 G0d guides my life so amazingly and communicates so profoundly to me, I have seen miracles from G0d's grace that would sound like science fiction to most. I am a healer and G0d speaks to me direclty all the time. Yet he never said one thing about the Gospel or guided me in that direction. Zero. So I should believe you and some others? Most I know are not great representatives of G0d, some are. I certainly know more loving Buddhists than Christians.
nyclear 4 months ago
@nyclear " G0d guides my life so amazingly and communicates so profoundly to me, I have seen miracles from G0d's grace that would sound like science fiction to most."
Again, on what basis do you know as to weather or not it's God guiding you, speaking to you, and performing all these miracles that you believe has taken place in your life?
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear For all you know, Satan could be the pepertraitor behind these miracles that you believe is from God in order to draw you away from him, but then again, you have no way of knowing this for certain, all you can do, is just simply go by your feelings and personal experiances and a blind belief in your heart, that everything you've experianced was from God.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear I'm sorry, but that's not a very logical choice in discovering what true is.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear And oddly enough, this is the same basis that is used within certain cults such as Mormonism, and the New Age movement in trying to discover what truth is, and it's philosophies like this that places most folks in a state of experiantal extascy, in other words, logic, rationalisationism and reasoning are no longer the basis in discovering the truth, cont----
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear ---cont : but rather, the only source for truth, is to just simply go by what one feels is right for the individual, and if the experiance matches what they feel, then atomatically it's true.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear ---cont : But in contrast to what the bible describes, the bible teaches that everyone believes that they are right in there own eyes, but that there ways ends in death (Prov 14:12), what this means is that, although many may believe that what they believe is true, however, people have no way of knowing for certain that there ways are true, and thus will end up leading themselves into self-destruction.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear ---cont : That is logical, why? because no one has the ability to know or determine there own fate, nor are they capable of determining the outcome of there own furture, it's always going to be uncertain, and that's what makes this philosophy so dangerous.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear ---cont : This is why the bible says "Trust in the Lord with all your heat, and lean not on your own understanding, in all your ways acknowlege him, and he will direct your path" (Proverbs Chapter 3),
cont---
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear cont---- basically what's being said here, is that if we trust in the Lord, place him first in our lives, and not depend on our own understanding rather then Gods, then God will direct us in the direction that we need to go, and since God knows all things, then the logical choice would be to trust in his judgement of what it's right for us, not ourselves.
demondagger19 4 months ago
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@nyclear *Trust in the Lord with all your heart*
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 we will have to agree to disagree. I am more compassionate than what you describe G0d has done to all of humanity because the first two humans were our representatives?! Would you do that if you were given the power? I think not. And then G0d absolutely would be infinitely more compassionate than what you describe. I know some jerks who would be more compassionate than that so to make G0d sound like a jerk and then tell me to follow the book? come on!
nyclear 4 months ago
@nyclear "we will have to agree to disagree."
On what exactly?
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear " I am more compassionate than what you describe G0d has done to all of humanity because the first two humans were our representatives?!"
And what did God do exactly? If your implying that he gave them a sin nature on purpose only to judge them after words because of it, then again that is incorrect, cont---
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear ---- cont : and I've already explained to you earlier that it was because of Adam and Eve's sin of "Disobediance" (which is what condemned them to death spiritually), that they inherited a sin nature as an end result, that is how they became stained of original sin.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear @nyclear ---- cont : So again, God had nothing to do with it. God gave them a command, they disobayed, and as an end result they where punished for it, it's that simple. if God where to just fluff it off as being completly irrelevent, then God would not be a just God.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear ---- cont : The bottom line is this, with every action, there is always a consiquence, and in Adam and Eve's case, dispite the fact that they were warned of the consiquences before hand (that they where going to die if they eat the fruit), they still descided to do the complete opposite of what God had already originally commanded them not to do.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear ---- cont : Not to mentioned warned about as well. Basically, they didn't abide by what God had already told them, and as an end result, they where punished for it, in fact, the both of them where already aware of the consiquences which makes the punishment all the more fair (see Gen 2:15-17, 3:2-3), so how is God unjust in punishing them for an action that they themselves already knew would doom themselves spiritually?
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear ---- cont : Obviously, there was nothing unjust about it, he had the right to punish them. It's surprises me that you say that your more compassionate then the God of the bible is, considering the fact that the compassion that your trying to compare in relation to God, isn't compassion at all when we compare the two, in fact, I'd say that is pretty unjust to say the least, especially when it pertains an action that is clearly in defiance of what is good.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear ---- cont : In todays day an age, there's a saying that says "Rules are made to be broken", but the reality is, without rules, there is chaos, it's that simple, the reasons why we have rules, is to not only keep ourselves in order, but it is also made as a guidline to protect us from postential dangers that we don't see, and it's the same when it comes to God.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear ---- cont : God gave them a command or rule, "The Lord God commanded the man. He said, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden. But you must never eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because when you eat from it, you will certainly die." (Gen 2:16-17).
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear The danger that they could not see, was the after effect of eating the fruit (which is spiritual death), that is what God was trying to protect them from, but the moment they broke this rule, they brought upon themselves the judgement of God and became stained with sin as an end result, so, who's fault is that, Adam and Eve's? or Gods? I think you'll find that the answer is obviouse.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 If you believe that G0d is all powerful all knowing, the creator of everything, then how could anything exist that G0d does not know about, did not create, or did not know the outcome of? If I can be very tapped in future events (through G0d's grace) then certainly nothing is going to happen that G0d did not know. Only the human and his mind is limited by time and space. So to say G0d is all knowing but didn't know how something was going to go down is really limited thinking.
nyclear 4 months ago
@nyclear " So to say G0d is all knowing but didn't know how something was going to go down is really limited thinking."
I never said that to begin with.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 it is your way if you say 'the' scriptures when you really mean the ones you follow. You are not quoting the Vivekachudamani I am guessing.
nyclear 4 months ago
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@nyclear " it is your way if you say 'the' scriptures when you really mean the ones you follow. You are not quoting the Vivekachudamani I am guessing."
Uh, no. When I say "The Scriptures", I'm refuring to "The Bible", not another book.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear Also, to be a sinner because of what others did? Who put the serpent in the garden in the first place? Did G0d not know exactly how it would go down? He knows all? And knowing all, he set this whole thing to go down and now I am a sinner and he also set it up for me not to believe a book to be true so now I go to hell? Do you realize what that sounds like?
nyclear 4 months ago
@nyclear Nothing like the God of the bible, that's for sure lol. This wasn't a set up at all, in fact if you read the Genesis story in (Genesis chapters 2-3), it nowhere describes what your talking about. The serpent wasn't placed in the garden by God (which is what I think your trying to imply), rather the serpent descided to invade the garden by it's own accord in order to tempt eve into eating the forbidden fruit, so God had nothing to do with it.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear Secondly, if you read the 2nd chapter in the Book of Genesis, then you would also know that it describes that God had made a command known to Adam that he was allowed to eat from any other tree in the garden, except from one perticular tree, which was the "Tree of The Knowlege of Good and Evil".
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear So clearly what's being demonstrated here, is the fact that God had already provided everything for him to sustain himself, but on the other hand had one command that was given to him, and that was to not eat from one perticular tree in the garden, in fact, further on in the same story, God is also described as giving Adam a warning of what exactly would happen if he were to eat from the tree that he was told not to eat from.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear Now with that being said, let me ask you this question, as we can see in both (Genesis Chapters 2-3), adam was warned by God, provided for by God in having his all physical needs taken care of, and was given a command of what he needed to do, which was to take care of Gods creation (see Chapter 1), now with all that information given to him, and let alone having all his physical needs taken care of, how then world is God to blame for adams screw up?
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear * then how in the world is* Sorry, made a little mistake.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 I think you are a great guy and smart too. But I can tell you this: It is not that we don't WANT TO go through Jesus, we see no evidence to believe that story to be true. In fact it doesn't compute at all for me. Do you really think the 4 billion people on the planet are other religions because we don't want to accept G0d through your religion? That is kind of egotistical if you ask me. If you were born in Iran you would probably be Muslim right now.
nyclear 4 months ago
@nyclear Actually, there are many Muslims in other countries (not just iran), who convert from Islam to christianity as well, so it isn't based on the location of where an individual is from. In fact, a great example of this is with "Abram" in the Book of Genesis.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear Abram's family was a household that both worshipped, and even created idols, so before Abram even knew who "Yahweh" was, his family line was perticularily pagan in origin to begin with, and it wasn't until later on, that the God of the Israelites called out to him in following him to leave his family in order to become the father of the iseralite nation (Gen 12:1-3).
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear So no matter the religous practice, location, or perticular natonality or culture, God has a way of letting himself be known to others in none christian backgrounds as well, there is no one un-reachable for God no matter who they are.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 there are many people on the planet never even exposed to the ideas of Jesus. If the idea that you go to hell if you don't accept Jesus is true, then please send me to hell because there are a lot of wonderful, kind, G0d Loving people going there just because they thought the ideas in a book were incorrect and I will continue to serve them there. What an evil G0d that depicts, that people don't believe something so they get punished. That is so beyond nutz to me. Sorry.
nyclear 4 months ago
@nyclear " there are many people on the planet never even exposed to the ideas of Jesus."
Ya, and that's why we have many missonaries spreading the gospel in various places of the world so that others can have an opporunity to hear about Jesus.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear Do you really think that the gospel is only limited to only those within the western world? Obviously it's not, and there are plenty of organizations supporting people in the cause of getting the gospel out there so that others can hear of who Jesus is. And with all the technology that we have today, the resources for doing so have been achieved. So that's a pretty poor excuse.
cont
demondagger19 4 months ago
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@nyclear " If the idea that you go to hell if you don't accept Jesus is true, then please send me to hell because there are a lot of wonderful, kind, G0d Loving people going there just because they thought the ideas in a book were incorrect and I will continue to serve them there."
Question: Do you know why Jesus is the only way humanity can be saved?
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 you missed my point. The point isn't whether or not people can be reached or not. The point is there are many who never were, and never will be and according to the bible, are not saved. Yes people make great effort to the the word out. But I know that G0d would never leave someone high and dry because they either never got word of Jesus or were not convinced by the missionaries. I was never convinced, so perhaps the ones trying to do the convincing should go to helll lol!
nyclear 4 months ago
@nyclear "The point is there are many who never were, and never will be and according to the bible, are not saved."
Again, you have no way of varifying that factually in ether case, so you can't attest for everyone else on there behalf in the generalisationing that those individuals have never heard or never will hear the gospel, you simply don't know.
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demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear Secondly, if there are some who choose to reject the gospel message while they had the opprotunity to hear it (and most people are within this catagory), then that is there fault.
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demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear No one on judgement day can blame someone else for the choices that they themselves have made, they can't say to God "That guy over there didn't convince me enough that the gospel was true, so it's his fault that I'm going to hell", sorry, but it doesn't work that way, because it's not anyones job to do so. So while the gospel may be presented, what people decide to do with the information being given to them, is up to them.
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demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear So It's going to be between them and God, not the person who presented the gospel to them in the first place. It's not anyones job to convince people that the gospel is true, instead, the bible describes that it only needs to be proclaimed (Matt 28:19), and by the power of the holy spirit, those who hear it, will be saved if they turn to Jesus in faith.
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demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear However, if there are argumentations to support the gospel, then that is also equally appropriate as well, in fact, the bible describes that we are to give an answer for the hope that we have (1 Peter 3:15) and also to defend the faith as well (Jude 3).
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demondagger19 4 months ago
Also, it's usually those who reject the gospel message that tend to already have a misunderstood, preconcieved biased notion against it to begin with, thus claiming that it has no validity to it at all. But this isn't a surprise because even the bible describes that the gospel is going to be foolishness to those who are perishing (1 Cor 1:18), why? because it is of a spiritual catagory (Chapter 2:14).
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demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear Bottom line is this, the natural man isn't going to know the things of the spirit (such as the cross), because he does not posses the holy spirit in order to understand it's true meaning. And if you don't believe me, then ask any unbeliever if they actually understand the full significance or meaning for why Jesus died on the cross. Not one of them will provide a sufficiant response regarding it.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 I think we should stop this back and forth chat. My only hope was to perhaps have you see that there are other ways of serving and knowing G0d than your's only. That what I said proves that there has to be another way other wise G0d is an mean G0d which we both is not true (he created 'being mean' and can destroy it if he wants too, so he wouldn't be limited like that). I wish you the best and hope you find you salvation at the end of the road.
nyclear 4 months ago
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@nyclear " I think we should stop this back and forth chat. My only hope was to perhaps have you see that there are other ways of serving and knowing G0d than your's only."
Well, I don't really see why you would need to do so, but if you want to then that's completly fine by me.
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demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear But to be honest, I actually found this discussion to be very interesting, although it's a very time consuming process lol. I think it's good to have discussions like this because it provides an opprotunity for people to provide an explanation for why they believe what they believe.
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demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear Anyone can easily say they that believe in a certain belief, philosophy or there own ideals, but if there's no reason as to why, then why exactly hold to that belief or ideals? Challenging the ideals and philosophies of others is not wrong, but very constructive, and we can learn allot from it as well as long as it's done in respect.
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demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear And I understand where your coming from in regards to the idea that there are many other spiritual paths to God, this is what's called "Universalism", a common belief that's held by most who object to the view that there is only one way to God, or that there are other spiritual truths other then christianity.
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demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear However the reality is that none of us actually thinks or there lives that way, and this conversation is proof of it, you believe just like I do that one of us is wrong, and that the other is right, thus indicating that we both don't believe that we are correct in our objections, in fact, that's why we have debates, discussions, disagreements, etc, everyone in one way or another believes that they are the only ones who are right, including yourself.
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demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear So you don't live your life that way even though you hold to that philosophy, the same can also be said of certain religious beliefs as well.
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demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear All religions do not lead to the same God nor believe or teach the samethings, why? because it's like I've mentioned before, according to every religion in regards to there core doctrines, every religion out there is exclusive within and of themselves, thus excluding every other belief in contrast, and If you don't believe me, then let's take a look into the beliefs of christianity and islam in regards to Jesus Christ as an example.
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demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear Both Islam and Christianity hold to the teaching that Jesus Christ was a prophet and a man, but in contrast, christianity holds to the view that Jesus Christ was not only a prophet and man, but that he was also divine as well.
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demondagger19 4 months ago
@nyclear Clearly, they both do not agree with each other and hence cannot lead to the belief in the same God, why? because they both cancel each other out due to there differing docternal beliefs. And as far as believing that all religions hold to the same spiritual truths, this however is also completly false, why? because truth itself is exclusive by definition.
demondagger19 4 months ago
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@nyclear " I wish you the best and hope you find you salvation at the end of the road."
I wish you the best as well bud, and believe me, I've already found where salvation lies, and it rests in Jesus alone, and I pray that the Lord will open your eyes to his truth, and bring you clarity through all this vauge and contradictory ideals of this world to bring you to himself. Godbless.
demondagger19 4 months ago
@demondagger19 I wish you the best. Take care. Was nice chatting.
nyclear 4 months ago