For all of you under a group plan yes ,Ins. Cos work great as they dont want you whining to H.R. so they dont hassle you, once your self insured, you HAVE NO VOICE AND THEY DENY YOU anything so why pay for it...SO IM STUCK...Nobody to buy insurance from..whats your solution?.
well yes i want you to work together!!! either way reoublicans always oppose everything never do nothing to help out or bring something to the table and here they come with excuses why to kill the bill..
Since when has government ever produced a sweeping program that is more efficient, cheaper, and something that people don't take extreme advantage of and abuse?
Never. Ever. President Obama's health care bill will bankrupt America.
Katty Kay is the Washington Correspondent for BBC World News America and appeared on the panel for NBC's Meet The Press, Feb 28:
KAY:
"At the moment, America has globally the 37th highest quality of care in the world, that's just above Cuba, just below Costa Rica. Now is that where America sees itself in terms of its quality of care? And that number will decline. It's going to slip down the global pole of where the level of health care is if something isn't done about health care reform.
There was recently a terrific one hour expose done on Frontline comparing in detail other healthcare systems such as Taiwan, Japan, Switzerland, Germany, Great Britain & Canada to the U.S. Having watched this I was not surprised with our lower rating. I emailed the BBC website asking which source their Washington correspondent was resourcing. I received no reply.
NBC "Meet The Press" and the "BBC" news are usually reliable. I wish I had received a reply to respond with.
Taiwan and Singapore has best medical care system in the world, 99% coverage, high quality, and they are government run with less than 5% GDP budget. Do some research other than Canada and Brits. Come on my fellow American, let us fix the healthcare for our children sakes!!
Look chumps,,just pay fo my HELF CAYA NOW! I needs da HELF CAYA fo my byotches & all dem kids be poppin out be need YO MONEY NOW....just gimmet all to the blomadon helf caya soze weez can git some good scrips man....it all be worf it man,,,it all be worf it....
Do you really think that when govt has their option that people will get every treatment possible that they need. Ration care is unenviable. When ratio care happens, govt will try to fix that by taking over more companies that supply the health industry to attempt to lower prices.
Or raise taxes on the RICH and that will be pass on down to us. NO THANKS OBAMA.
why so many pages and where can citizens read this bill? Will be understand it? have senators READ this bill? do they UNDERSTAND it? Why NOT pay educational costs for more health care workers? Why not have tort reform? Neither of these REAL problem solvers has been talked about.. ..2010 LIBERTARIANS...Independents same old same old...the Jackasses and fat Elephants have gotta go...tired of the stupidity..the two will never WORK together...cuz they aint on the same team!
How would any republican have dealt with the economy?
Oh lets see...
"Let the economy heal itself"
"Let the institutions fail"
"lower taxes"
If a republican won the presidential election of 2008 the unemployment rate would be higher,we would still be in a recession, and eventually the economy would drop into a depression.
In this unique situation, only a Democrat could have handled this economic crisis, because Republicans are so stubbornly glued to their primary beliefs.
The 3000 Pg Trojan Horse Mandate HC Bill is indicative of a sheepish populaton led by paid experts, lobbyists, & politicians..
"Mandate" cloaked as reform, is equally indicative of rampant stupidity perpetrated by paid idols, endorsed by lonely flailing desperate fools...hopelessly swallowed up in a culture of entitlement mentality..
megarational- s-corps get their HEALTH insurance payments TAXED as income- i have crappier health care than union workers or gov. employees..yet i get to HELP pay for them under this bill..I have one employee...and i would have to lay them off cause my income S UC K S and i cant even find a part-time job in Michigan...i am pushing 60...REform yes but leave us small business owners a REPRIEVE in a NEW BILL...
The health care protesters are already planning to run on the doctors after it passes, which is a lose lose for everyone..especially the ones that need HC the most..
They are planning to run to the doctors every day for every conceivable ailment & every conceivable test "in the name of good health" which will have a "side effect" of Neutering the Access to every one.. & Another "SIde Effect" of forcing everyont to buy at a premium Health Care they will never get..
47 million Americans. Most of them school teachers, blue collar workers, Women, Actors from broadway. I guess you don't know much since you drink the GOP moonshine.
We already tried that and look what happened the Health Insurance turned out to be corrupt. Don't you get it How dim are you people, I mean really are your minds really that frozen in time. Stuck in 1955 I assume. How many economic disasters does it take for you to get but laissez faire Capitalism to be a complete Fuck up. Look we had many recessions in the 1970's, late 1980's, and early on in the 1990's. all this is caused by Laissez faire.
Years of wars to fight for our freedoms we have today. But times get hard so it must be someones fault. I know lets blame the rich. Then the big govt will teach them a lesson. How dare them to build america give jobs to millions and make money while doing it. That is just wrong? I know times are hard so we need someone to blame. We need govt to step in and control our economy so they can fix it?????
The U.S. has one of the widest rich-poor gaps of any high-income nation, & it continues to grow. Prominent economists incl'd Alan Greenspan warned that the widening U.S. rich-poor gap is a prob. that could undermine and destabilize the U.S. economy and standard of living stating: "The income gap between the rich and the rest of the US pop. has become so wide, and is growing so fast, that it might eventually threaten the stability of democratic capitalism itself".
Lets see what you mean by poor in America compare to other countries poor. America poor, roof over your head, clothes on your back, a car to drive, food to eat [how many poor people you see that are skinny], TV, furniture, AC, heat, and that is just the ones who don't work and live off the govt. If you work you can have all of that plus more. The only gap is our poor compare to other countries poor. I'm sorry but only in America you can be whatever you want to be.
Are you saying that America doesn't have one of the widest rich-poor gaps of any high income nation?
Are you saying that lower income people don't encounter financial barriers to insuring their children have access to higher education?
Are you denying that millions of working Americans are without h.c. insurance, or are under-insured, or that wages have stagnated while corporate profits rose? If so just keep your head buried in the sand. You will be of no use in seeking solutions.
you failed to name any Federal agency that doesn't lose money or operate in a substandard manner. health insurance is corrupt? why because they refuse to throw their money away on everyone? boo hoo. its their money they can run their business anyway they want. but keep insisting that socialism works, i'm sure people from Poland and Cuba will be more than happy to correct you.
well ask the People Japan and Argentina and maybe they'll will correct you too and as for the Cuba and Poland they never use socialism there is no pure socialism. As for the federal agency, Social Security, FDIC.
Japan? became an industrial giant when they adopted free market capitalism after the war. Argentina? yeah, they did great under Galtieri's dictatorship. ended up getting embarrassed by the British in the Falklands. and you use Social security as an example of a GOOD federally run program? have you intentionaly dumbed yourself down or did your teachers waste their breath on you. Social Security is bankrupt and is a horrible idea made worse only by horrible management.
Social security and Medicare are in financial crisis not because they aren't needed, or because they were inefficiently run. The problem is that successive administrations, and the Bush administration in particular, neglected to insure the liabilities were funded. Instead they kept spending & borrowing money from China & other countries in order to fund tax cuts for the rich.
spoken like someone who's never seen the federal government in action. they are in crisis because they were bad ideas from the start. the federal governement is not meant to support the masses.
I'll tell them that. and i'll tell them that Social Security was even worse. you see it's MY money that's being wasted. I should be allowed to opt out at any time. but according to hippies like you, I should be FORCED to pay for crap I don;t want. I should be made to support others. that is what the constitution was created to stop.
Worried about wasting your money? Why don't you seem concerned about the waste of your h.c. money for private insurance corporate jets, profits, exorbitant CEO salaries, advertising departments, and billions spent in campaign contributions & lobbying?
Did you get your number yet? So when obama calls your number he can give you a package. The package will include how munch money you are allow to make, what job you will be doing according to there needs, where to live due to overpopulation in some areas, what food is acceptable to eat that way you won't run up HC cost, how many children you can have, and your carbon credits and how to buy more when you run out.
This way everybody will be equal. This sounds fair doesn't it.
Wow talk about Over-dramatic typical Right wing Bastard, still stuck in the 20th Century also say hi to McCarthy in Hell. But anyway About that Postcard from Rio where a brazilian is doing your job.
I don't think he is magic and plus you haven't paying attention but the economy is starting to grow again. You are starting to see some signs of improvement, Of course jobs haven't grown. But thats common in all Economic meltdowns first the economy heals and then the jobs come back.
Thats been common in all recessions I mean we had other recessions, back in the late 1950's, 1970's, late 1980's, early 1990's, and up to 2001 and 2009.
@megarational It just gets better and better with you. I thought you were maybe better than that but you have a fixation on downgrading me for your own gain. I am a america and for you to keep kicking me when I am open minded to other views is disgraceful. That is why I'm losing respect for our president. He is downgrading fellow Americans to push is agenda.
You don't to seem to care to much about personal responsibility. Because we need someone to blame. Because someone must have made those people poor. When bad decisions are made like, to have kids at a early age are more than you can afford, are to do drugs instead of work, are to never push yourself at work and just get by, There are many reasons we have poor people. But when govt steps in time after time and says it not your fault and points the finger. What message are we sending to our kids.
Don't play all high and Mighty you bastards have pointing fingers at clinton. I am about that about work you idiot, But I just believe both sides the Private sector and the Govts are corrupt not like your one-sided opinion. Plus i told I am a university students. I made through I got good grades, never did drugs, got a girl pregnant. Look who is stereotyping, show how much of fake you are.
Damn man you can't wait to finish school and get a job work for a few years and then you will have your america dream. It must be so ruff being poor for a little while.That is your problem you want it NOW. Why should you work your ass when the rich are being handed money right. I was poor for ten years. I did not go to college becuse I barly pass HS. I did not wait for govt to step in and help me. I went to work and build my America dream from NOTHING.
But i believe that both forces can work together. I mean in a real marriage you wouldn't you let your wife do all the work or her let you do all the work. How about both share the work, thats what the Govt. and the Private are a couple and like all marriages they are suppose to cooperate.
Yeah, yeah, the old "I pulled myself up by my bootstraps". That shit never gets old. Nobody is saying don't work. The purpose of h.c. reform is to ensure that if you get sick or injured you can get h.c. regardless of income, so you can get back to work.
I do want to spread the wealth. But at the same time I want people to use that money wisely and work for. Thats what he is trying to do but your to blind to see that because you still in 1955 in your little mind. Still using the same scare tactics that were used by McCarthy and his goons.
I know your reply will be what about the fat cats and there personal responsibility to the public are that the poor people have no choice, are what about the sick the weak the old who can't do it for themselves.
Also I guess you've never been outside the US. Because in fact Socialism is successful and that in fact it got a country out of the worst Economic crisis in History.
Go to school get a job work you ass off to become something. Then look around you and really see who are the ones a burden to this society. Then one day you may be on top and the govt will be there to limit your full potential becuse you are consider to be the rich.
As Much of an honour that is, I am going to be a teacher who teachers history or Linguistics. I mean I know politics is a dirty game but thats not cut out for me.
Good for you we can't never have enough teachers. But please america is one of the best places on earth no matter what is being told by the media or other outlets.
There are no limits to the greatest of this country. if govt will let us grow to our full potential. We will have up and downs but living in a truly free country good will always preville.
Its true that this the best place, but I have seen many people suffer left and right. Why can't we let them have a chance too. My mission in life is too end poverty for good.
America's prob. isn't just big gov.t, but bad gov.t Gov.t can marshal the will and the resources to accomplish public interest goals that create a great nation to live in. The bad rep gov't has in the U.S. is because of corporatism that allows deep pockets to fund campaigns & do massive lobbying. Regardless, only gov't will insure universal access to affordable h.c. care. Why? Because providing h.c. costs money - doesn't make profit unless you charge more for h.c. than you pay out.
If there was a way to know what business are doing with there money like how munch do they pay their employees the benefits they provide and if they keep there business in america. Maybe through a Internet site where the consumer can keep tabs on what business is best for the workers. and if big business would not precipitate in this program that would throw a red flag, what are they hiding.
We could eliminate the middle man "the gov". Maybe we could drive up better pay more and better benefits with our choice for companies to compete for us. That way we could directly receive raises from companies instead of high taxes the gov takes and then takes there percentage to pay gov workers and then they pass that down to us. No middle man.
It is just a thought. I know there would be problems with this idea but I would rather the people fix the problems with our economy than the gov stepping in to do it for us.
If you have a good government, not the partisan shit bag bough-&-paid-for douche bags, then the government should be the way people can fix some of the problems. The only proviso is that you have to have a government that is more concerned about the people than about partisan politics & appeasing their campaign contributors.
There is a fine line between the ones who need help and the ones who abuse the help. Govt can't seem to find that line that is why I am against more govt programs becuse I am all for ending poverty. My mom was on food stamps for years. But the abuse I see everyday is huge. That is way conservative are against more govt. They some how find a way to let the ones who need it slip through the cracks.
I mean I am a liberal but I still hold some conservative values too I believe in hard work I mean I know we can't have things handed on a silver platter forever. But i believe in all ideas comming together wether is socialist, Capitalist, Conservative, Progressive, and Democratic why can't we bring these things together to form a solution I believe in mixture of ideas to come together as one. I mean in some health care systems like Japan and Taiwan the don't use gate keepers.
That makes sense but the people have to stop believing all the hype that our govt and media and radio talk show host are putting into the air. I believe our govt can fix things if done right. It will help if liberals would believe that the rich play a big part in our society. Yes their are corruption on both sides of the isle. I'm not taking up for the rich but we need not to demonized just one group to progress as a nation. Like you said work together as one.
Yeah the rich can play a big part in our society. In fact we can raise tax rates slightly on the ultra-rich to ensure just that.
A small tax increase would not even mean they had to give up even one Porsche, mansion, world vacation, or yacht. They would still be super-rich. But the money could help fund h.c. for those without insurance, and would be a small measure to slow the widening rich-poor gap.
And that country is Sweden; During the Great depression sweden wa hit hard unemployement was rising, production was declining. But that all changed in 1932 when the Social democrats along with the farmers party. with a combinations of Socialist and democratic processes Sweden was able to pull out of the Depression much early than the rest of the world. In fact by 1936 production was at 50% twice as high than in 1929.
Nope. You have no choice over the private insurance companies diverting your h.c. dollars to such things as corporate jets & lobbying, unless you choose not to buy h.c. insurance. However, if you can afford h.c. insurance it's your personal responsibility to buy it. Otherwise if you end up in the emergency ward, or have a debilitating illness or actually live to a ripe old age you could be receiving medical care that you never contributed toward.
I could care less about what insurance companies do with their money. if I don't like it, I'll go elsewhere. and if democrats weren't hell bent on creating socialism, they'd allow interstate trade between healthcare companies like ALL other businesses. it's how THEY keep costs low. but with you, good business is some kind of conspiracy isn't it.
It's only been repeated time after time on all the major media outlets (except Fox News of course.)
Here's a reference from Dec 5 New York Times: "So far, the House proposal calls for the creation of a national exchange where someone in Iowa, for example, may have the same choice of health plans as buyers in Maine and California. Because insurance is now a state-by-state patchwork, such an approach would conceivably enhance competition by creating an interstate market.
Hey rugger, how is it that you profess to know so much about the h.c. reform bills that you are opposing, yet were somehow unaware that a national "exchange" set up by the house bill in particular effectively allows cross-state insurance company competition?
hey, which page did you read that one on? 1423 or 987? or are you again relying on the Democrats to "tell you" what to think? are you that naive about polictics that you don't realize that the more a bill says the less it will do?
So back to the question you still haven't answered: How is it that you profess to know so much about the h.c. reform bills yet were somehow unaware that a national "exchange" set up by the house bill in particular could effectively allow cross-state insurance company competition?
oh and in your "examination" of the bill where you "discovered" all these great things. did you also discover that of the 31 million the bill professes to bring free healthcare to, 15 million of them get it by being dumped into the already defunct medicade program? and since you so adamantly bash those evil privat insurace companies for being cruel you probably never realized that Medicare has a "refusal" rate that's double that of private insurance companies. Hope And Change eh?
rugger, you are not the first idiot to quote higher Medicare claim denial rates without knowing what role private insurance companies play in those denials. You could prove me wrong by explaining that role because it's absolutely critical in interpreting the high claim denial rates. If you can't explain it and simply tap dance some more, I'll explain it to you on a later comment.
@megarational go back to canada and stop kissing our government ass becuse you believe they have all the answers. It is really great to see our great govt at their finest trying to pass this HC at any cost and go against everything they campaign on that they said they would not do. Foolish gullible man you are to actually believe this is really only about HC.
megarational, you are not the first idiot to look to big government to solve your problems. they usually call themselves democrats. the problem is democrats look at other governments like Cuba and the Soviet Union as the role model.
Actually, I would hope that Democrats look not only at Cuba and the Soviet Union, but also at the h.c. systems of all other countries, to see what elements commonly seem to work and what elements don't. Such open-mindedness is definitely not something we could ever expect from you or from the GOP.
Yes they are so open minded that they work deals behind close doors, bride people from their own party to vote for this bill. They won't even consider what the other side has to say in our own country but you think they will look to other countries for answers. They are the ones that are close minded you fool.
By the way, rugger8541, since you quoted Medicare denial rates I asked you what role private insurance rates directly play in Medicare claim denials - since that is critical to interpretation of the denial rates. You have found time to put more random bullshit on subsequent comments, but still haven't answered the direct question on Medicare claim denials. What's a matter? Don't know the answer?
Letting the human mind expand is a result of what free market has done for america and no limitations on what it can be if we would try to let it grow with peoples choice. govt will set limitations kill innovation and restrict freedoms. We need govt for national defense, emergency programs and laws. more than that is consider to be control of the masses. Unless you think people are stupid as a whole and can't learn to fix our problems without govt stepping in to do it for us.
If you didn't like the way insurance companies waste your h.c. dollars on exorbitant executive salaries & lobbying (for only some examples), you'd "go elsewhere"?
In case you haven't noticed it - there's nowhere else to go for insurance. Thanks to weak minded fools like you every attempt at national health care programs by both Republican & Democratic governments over the last 100 years have been defeated by the same propaganda being used now - the same propaganda you bought into.
@megarational I understand you. You act as if people are stupid and don't know what is going on with big business or insurance companies. You think I'm just a small town man who says "down with govt". Your views are nothing anybody doesn't already know. You have faith in govt. Everything govt, as if they are the answer to your problems. Of course corporate america run this country, that is not a news flash. They paid politician to make decision base on their Growth as a business.
Faith in government has nothing to do with it. Whatever I think about the rotten state of government and the American political system I'm smart enough to realize it's foolish to depend on the private "for-profit" sector to insure universal access to affordable h.c. regardless of income.
If the only way a social program could be implemented is if there were zero abuse we wouldn't have any social programs.
What costs more, abuse in the Medicare program, or the billions insurance co.s waste on campaign contributions, lobbying, and the h.c. dollars they divert to advertising, duplication of bureaucracies, corporate jets, absurdly high CEO salaries, and fighting claim payments?
Would you agree that the abuse people are doing to these govt program are costing tax payers millions of dollars and creating a socity that becomes depended on their programs.
that is if you believe health care is everyone's "right." to healthcare. next you'll be insisting everyone has a "right" to a home and a car and that we the taxpayers have to cover that. great idea. what's the point of me working harder than others and prospering if hippies like you believe in taking away the fruits of my labor? Oh wait I forgot, you're a socialist like your boy Barry Obama.
The Senate bill passed. For one time in the U.S. history of ]trying for h.,c. & h.c. insurance reform idiots like you are not going to be able to stop it.
HA. yes go ahead celebrate. then remember this joy when it gets dismanteled after turning into yet another government debacle like social security, medicare, welfare, etc etc etc.
transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency. is a quote from your boy barry. and here we see a secret healtcare bill thousands of pages long drafted behind closed doors and pushed through in a vote before people have a chance to even study it. that's hope and change we can believe in!
If it was such a secret process why have i been able to download copies of the bills from the net, and why have I been able to watch weeks and months of debate on the bills on all news channels, and why were there public forums on h.c. reform held across America, and why have so many Republican amendments been accepted?
The govt is creating a parasite you don't see it becuse you live up north. I live in the south and see this parasite that relies on govt for every part of life and they want more and more they feed off of the working class becuse they deserve to have things giving to them. I not taking about the ones who work and can't afford HC of course something needs to be done about that. You are the one who can't see why people oppose this bill you believe I believe in the scare tactics to oppose this bill
So what's your "totally free market" solution to solve the problems of rising h.c. costs, millions of uninsured, millions more of under-insured, and the growing number of Americans in those categories?
Don't just say: tort reform & cross state insur. co. competition, because the CBO has already analyzed that those solutions would not significantly affect either the rising h .c. costs or the no. of uninsured. (not to say that they shouldn't be done).
The same way we have became the greatest place on earth. People standing together and making a choice to demand better coverage. The way our jobs provide us HC, vacation, sick leave time, better pay. The same way companies compete for our business and come up with innovation to better their products. We need to be more involved in the companies that provide service for us and choose what is best for america not the cheapest. It can be done through the free market but we have to try.
That;s your "specific solutions", wait for "people to stand together & demand better coverage"? Does that mean you'll be telling insur. co.s what to do?
Once you choose "what's best for America" how do you get the insur. co.s & corp.s to comply? By legislation?
And would the insur. co.s & corp. world suspend their campaign donations, propaganda & lobbying to give people time to "stand together"?
Brianlugen, you are a simpleminded child living in a technicolor dream world.
And now we have the best work conditions in the world. Compare our jobs in the field to other countries. I see videos of foreign jobs that is how we learn what can happen when you don't follow safety.
It might be hard to work through the free market to fix our problems but I think it will pay off in the long run becuse the possiblity will have no limitation on them. There is a reason why we are a great country becuse of less govt and more freedom to become great. We just have to have the drive in our system to work these problems out with out more govt control. Lets not destroy our free market system becuse of hate.
So your solution is to let tens of thousands of Americans die annually from lack of access to the h.c. system (other than emergency room stabilization), and let the costs continue to rise and the problem to worsen until some time in the who-knows-when future when hopefully we find some way to find all the solutions through the free market?
I guess when govt takes over everybody will get the care they need? I am trying to make you understand that we could improve our HC way beyond what govt can do for us. either way we go it will take years for us to improve. But only one way we will have the greatest HC in the world. Just like we have other great thing in america. It will take time. You have to think further than the present to become great.
The government did step in to save people in the 1930's from poor work conditions. It did sot because enough people wanted it because the problem got so bad.
It's the same as the situation now where the problems of lack of h.c. insurance & the skyrocketing costs of h.c. has become such a large & worsening problem that more and moe people are demanding that their government do something about it.
there was no healthcare problems until the 1960's when oh wait a minute. that's when the Federal Government began to get involved in healthcare. quite whining aobut the MILLIONS AND MILLIONS who will die in back alleys. the American people don't buy that argument which is why everyday more turn against the democrats and healthcare. be prepared for disapointment when the overwhelming republican majority in 2013 overturns this legislation.
Yeah, we can hardly wait for a nation ruled by Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, & the same GOP cockroaches that fucked it up so bad the last time they were in power. .
OH no, the people are ALL dying due to lack of healthcare. and yet somehow the birthrate continues to rise and population continues to expand. hey guess what hippie? people die WITH healthcare too. shit happens. if you want healthcare, go get insurance. or move to Canada but be prepared to wait in line a long time since socialized medicine has its drawbacks.
You say "somehow the birth rate continues to rise". You don't even slow your typing when you decide to make up facts. Here's the real situation: "Continuing a 12-year decline, the U.S. birth rate has dropped to the lowest level since national data have been available, according to statistics just released by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC). The rate of births among teenagers also fell to a new record low, continuing a decline that began in 1991."
So what you seem to be saying is that we shouldn't worry about Americans dying from lack of access to affordable health care, so long as the total population continues to increase?
If that's not what you are saying why did you even bring up increasing population as relevant to people dying from lack of affordable health care?
Or maybe, in your fevered "brain" the fact that the population continues to increase is proof that no one is dying from lack of access to health care??
you can worry about Americans dying from your PERCEIVED lack of healthcare. worry your ass off for all I care. But use someone elses money to clear your conscience. my money is my property.
John Hopkins Childrens Center study, pub. In Journal of Public Health: Lack of adequate health care may have contributed to the deaths of some 17,000 US children over the past two decades. .. was compiled from more than 23 million hospital records from 37 states between 1988 and 2005.
The ..concluded that children w/o health insur.are statistically far more likely to succumb to their illnesses than those with medical coverage.
Oh my God! 17,000. you know 6,000 people died from falling last year. I think we need sweeping legislation that will drastically increase our debt in order to fix this! of course those damn republicans and their ladder lobby will probably try to stop it.
That's your idea of rational argument? To say that we should ignore the 17,000 deaths of children from lack of h.c. because 6000 people died from falling last year?
OH my God! 60,000 people died on highways last year! we need trillions of dollars of legislation passed immediately. someone start an inter-governmental panel to look into this matter and form a binding PARTISAN resolution by the democrats to make all Americans ride bikes. just like China. you know China, the one your boy Barry soooo admires!
Actually, the government regulations continue to address the highway death tolls, with measures such as crash test standards, improved highway designs, highway signage standards & conventions, seat belts, and drunk driving laws.
But maybe all that "government intervention" was unnecessary? Maybe we shouldn't interfere when unsafe vehicles are marketed? Maybe traffic signs are just a waste of taxpayers money? After all, I can drive without signage so why should I have to pay for it?
"actually the government keeps addressing...." listen to you, you're just such a good little nazi. the government has been ADDRESSING automobiles since the 1970's and the death stoll skyrocketed upwards since then and has been going up ever since. in fact I'll make the bold prediction that highway deaths will always stay above 50,000 a year. no go tell the democrats to fix that with Hope and change!
So what would the comparable death rate have been without automobile crash testing & safety standards, seat belts, etc? Rather important to know if you are commenting on their impact on death rated don't you think?
Oh, yeah, your "Nazi" reference, - right on - after all Hitler was all about automotive safety standards.
Your view of "why we are a great country" is as simplistic as your view of the h.c. issue.
America became great because, for eg. it had an abundance of natural resources, it was virtually the worlds only oil producer & exporter and the resulting flood of wealth supported a high standard of living, low taxes & high investments; massive immigration created decades of increasing demand; the free market maximized innovation & development, the "mix" created a huge mfg. infrastructure & exports.
oh great another hippie with the "America is only great because we have so much B.S. argument" we are great because we have constantly outperformed other nations. agriculturally, industrially and militarily. not becuase a lump of minerals were waiting here for us to take.
If anyone wants a clear demonstration of the way you misrepresent everything all they have to do is compare your description of what I said with what I actually said.
Also, you claim that "we have constantly outperformed other nations..." ignoring the fact that in recent years some European & Asian nations have been outperforming the U.S. in balance of trade, economic progress, and increases in standard of living. The way you misrepresent things you should B a Republicon. Oh right - you are.
Europe and Asia have not been "outperforming" us they've been "outselling." big difference. U.S. industry has ouproduced its major competitors in most areas to include quality. unfortuantely it costs more to build here thanks to deadbeat socialists that call themselves democrats and their want to "tax those evil corporations." thank God for labor unions and thier ability to destroy an industry.
One reason for the U.S. car manufacturers loss of market share for the last 30 years is that they built low quality cars.
As for corporate taxes, even if the tax rates were even with our Asian, Mexican, and South American competitors parts the Corp.s would still choose to manufacture overseas for the far cheaper labor rates & lack of regulations & safety standards. To really compete U.S. wages have to fall & regulations gutted. It's just the corporate & GOP supported "race to the bottom".
cheaper labor rates? you mean there are places on earth that don't mandate 25 bucks an hour for unskilled labor? oh my, how can that be? but the Unions are so wise how can they permit this to happen. maybe they need to endorse more Dimwit Democrats to keep their unskilled severance packages in tact.
yeah, don't you get it. the jobs are gone BECAUSE of those nice high union wages. big labor and socialist democrats helped to implode our manufacturing industry.
no, if they would however accept profit sharing rather than be fat and happy making a shitload even while the company suffers maybe just maybe GM would still be in flint michigan.
Hey, if the profit sharing gave the same benefits as the union negotiated wages, the companies would still prefer to take the jobs overseas where the workers don't demand profit sharing.
(Not that I'm against profit sharing agreements - actually I'm very much in favor of them.)
because unions are just as selfish as evil CEO's, just say it! they don't CARE about their job they just care about themselves and want their pay. which is exactly the same picture people like you make the CEO's out to be.
Like I said on previous comments, you have to remove the power of money from the election & political system if you ever want good government. Some steps include: publicly funded elections and prohibiting campaign contributions from corporations AND UNIONS.
publicly funded elections? taking power and money out of the political system? and you look to Obama for that? the democrats have had more money from private contributors than the republicans in the last 4 presidential elections. Obama went back on his promise to rely solely on public donations where McCain did. Hope and Change. Bill Cinton took Millions from China. some day you'll realize that democrats are worse than the eveil you portray republicans as.
Obamacare = FAIL!!!
Hahahaa
helltrackrider 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
For all of you under a group plan yes ,Ins. Cos work great as they dont want you whining to H.R. so they dont hassle you, once your self insured, you HAVE NO VOICE AND THEY DENY YOU anything so why pay for it...SO IM STUCK...Nobody to buy insurance from..whats your solution?.
PriceCynthia 1 year ago
youtube.com/watch?v=bYksme7cdao
TheMidnightdrunk 1 year ago
B.Obamas Health Care Proposal, Will it hurt or help America's voters. .? Your view's are important!! Goto my utube profile and discover how!
Wilone328 1 year ago
well yes i want you to work together!!! either way reoublicans always oppose everything never do nothing to help out or bring something to the table and here they come with excuses why to kill the bill..
domingueza21 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
what does the congress think gives them the
authority to require people all over the country
to buy health insurance if they don't want to buy it?
there's nothing in the constitution that allows that
and the tenth amendment expressly prohibits it..
az10101010 1 year ago
Libturd=truth denier
MrIfreeman 1 year ago
@MrIfreeman
Yea liberals like to lie as long as it makes people come to their side.
BryanNC08 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Since when has government ever produced a sweeping program that is more efficient, cheaper, and something that people don't take extreme advantage of and abuse?
Never. Ever. President Obama's health care bill will bankrupt America.
danmol78 1 year ago
Katty Kay is the Washington Correspondent for BBC World News America and appeared on the panel for NBC's Meet The Press, Feb 28:
KAY:
"At the moment, America has globally the 37th highest quality of care in the world, that's just above Cuba, just below Costa Rica. Now is that where America sees itself in terms of its quality of care? And that number will decline. It's going to slip down the global pole of where the level of health care is if something isn't done about health care reform.
historylock 1 year ago
where did u gather this information about the 37th rank. not challenging ur claim, would just like to kno how u came up with that figure. thanks
WeHateAubrey4Life 1 year ago
@WeHateAubrey4Life
There was recently a terrific one hour expose done on Frontline comparing in detail other healthcare systems such as Taiwan, Japan, Switzerland, Germany, Great Britain & Canada to the U.S. Having watched this I was not surprised with our lower rating. I emailed the BBC website asking which source their Washington correspondent was resourcing. I received no reply.
NBC "Meet The Press" and the "BBC" news are usually reliable. I wish I had received a reply to respond with.
historylock 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Taiwan and Singapore has best medical care system in the world, 99% coverage, high quality, and they are government run with less than 5% GDP budget. Do some research other than Canada and Brits. Come on my fellow American, let us fix the healthcare for our children sakes!!
noformstyle 1 year ago
Look chumps,,just pay fo my HELF CAYA NOW! I needs da HELF CAYA fo my byotches & all dem kids be poppin out be need YO MONEY NOW....just gimmet all to the blomadon helf caya soze weez can git some good scrips man....it all be worf it man,,,it all be worf it....
hadenufnow 1 year ago
Do you really think that when govt has their option that people will get every treatment possible that they need. Ration care is unenviable. When ratio care happens, govt will try to fix that by taking over more companies that supply the health industry to attempt to lower prices.
Or raise taxes on the RICH and that will be pass on down to us. NO THANKS OBAMA.
brianlugen 2 years ago
brianlugen, oracle & sage. Har har har.
megarational 2 years ago
Kill the 3000 pg Illegal HC TAX & JAIL Trojan Horse Mandate Bill nobody wants..
Kill the bill..
Vote em out..
nobody wants it..
hadenufnow 2 years ago
hadenufnow can only think in terms of Tea-Bagger jingles.
megarational 2 years ago
why so many pages and where can citizens read this bill? Will be understand it? have senators READ this bill? do they UNDERSTAND it? Why NOT pay educational costs for more health care workers? Why not have tort reform? Neither of these REAL problem solvers has been talked about.. ..2010 LIBERTARIANS...Independents same old same old...the Jackasses and fat Elephants have gotta go...tired of the stupidity..the two will never WORK together...cuz they aint on the same team!
jean1126 2 years ago
How would any republican have dealt with the economy?
Oh lets see...
"Let the economy heal itself"
"Let the institutions fail"
"lower taxes"
If a republican won the presidential election of 2008 the unemployment rate would be higher,we would still be in a recession, and eventually the economy would drop into a depression.
In this unique situation, only a Democrat could have handled this economic crisis, because Republicans are so stubbornly glued to their primary beliefs.
infodirts 2 years ago
The 3000 Pg Trojan Horse Mandate HC Bill is indicative of a sheepish populaton led by paid experts, lobbyists, & politicians..
"Mandate" cloaked as reform, is equally indicative of rampant stupidity perpetrated by paid idols, endorsed by lonely flailing desperate fools...hopelessly swallowed up in a culture of entitlement mentality..
Kill the Bill..
Pork em hard..
Vote em out..
Nobody wants it..
hadenufnow 2 years ago
megarational- s-corps get their HEALTH insurance payments TAXED as income- i have crappier health care than union workers or gov. employees..yet i get to HELP pay for them under this bill..I have one employee...and i would have to lay them off cause my income S UC K S and i cant even find a part-time job in Michigan...i am pushing 60...REform yes but leave us small business owners a REPRIEVE in a NEW BILL...
jean1126 2 years ago
The health care protesters are already planning to run on the doctors after it passes, which is a lose lose for everyone..especially the ones that need HC the most..
They are planning to run to the doctors every day for every conceivable ailment & every conceivable test "in the name of good health" which will have a "side effect" of Neutering the Access to every one.. & Another "SIde Effect" of forcing everyont to buy at a premium Health Care they will never get..
Forcing won't work anyway..
hadenufnow 2 years ago
And I hear there was another UFO sighting.
megarational 2 years ago
Look, Nobody wants any form of HC Mandate....
Kill the Trohan Horse HC Bill..
Vote out the Freaks
Nobody wants it...
hadenufnow 2 years ago
Nobody? What about, as one example, those who are uninsured?
megarational 2 years ago
47 million Americans. Most of them school teachers, blue collar workers, Women, Actors from broadway. I guess you don't know much since you drink the GOP moonshine.
chrisfo19 2 years ago
People should help people ....
The gov't should stay away from overly-providing, as it obviously invokes dependency..
The umbilicle cord has got to be severed at some time when it gets out of hand..
..It's out of hand.....
.
hadenufnow 2 years ago
Sure tell that to corporate america their umbilical cord for a long time and its time for them. I mean nobody complains about corporate welfare.
chrisfo19 2 years ago
want to reform healthcare? keep the federal government out of it. unless anyone can site just 1 successful federal agency that doesn't waste money.
rugger8541 2 years ago
We already tried that and look what happened the Health Insurance turned out to be corrupt. Don't you get it How dim are you people, I mean really are your minds really that frozen in time. Stuck in 1955 I assume. How many economic disasters does it take for you to get but laissez faire Capitalism to be a complete Fuck up. Look we had many recessions in the 1970's, late 1980's, and early on in the 1990's. all this is caused by Laissez faire.
chrisfo19 2 years ago
Years of wars to fight for our freedoms we have today. But times get hard so it must be someones fault. I know lets blame the rich. Then the big govt will teach them a lesson. How dare them to build america give jobs to millions and make money while doing it. That is just wrong? I know times are hard so we need someone to blame. We need govt to step in and control our economy so they can fix it?????
Because capitalism is EVIL right?
brianlugen 2 years ago
@brianlugen You keep repeating the same stupid BS. You my friend dont get it!
foxnewsdupe 2 years ago
The U.S. has one of the widest rich-poor gaps of any high-income nation, & it continues to grow. Prominent economists incl'd Alan Greenspan warned that the widening U.S. rich-poor gap is a prob. that could undermine and destabilize the U.S. economy and standard of living stating: "The income gap between the rich and the rest of the US pop. has become so wide, and is growing so fast, that it might eventually threaten the stability of democratic capitalism itself".
megarational 2 years ago
Lets see what you mean by poor in America compare to other countries poor. America poor, roof over your head, clothes on your back, a car to drive, food to eat [how many poor people you see that are skinny], TV, furniture, AC, heat, and that is just the ones who don't work and live off the govt. If you work you can have all of that plus more. The only gap is our poor compare to other countries poor. I'm sorry but only in America you can be whatever you want to be.
brianlugen 2 years ago
Are you saying that America doesn't have one of the widest rich-poor gaps of any high income nation?
Are you saying that lower income people don't encounter financial barriers to insuring their children have access to higher education?
Are you denying that millions of working Americans are without h.c. insurance, or are under-insured, or that wages have stagnated while corporate profits rose? If so just keep your head buried in the sand. You will be of no use in seeking solutions.
megarational 2 years ago
you failed to name any Federal agency that doesn't lose money or operate in a substandard manner. health insurance is corrupt? why because they refuse to throw their money away on everyone? boo hoo. its their money they can run their business anyway they want. but keep insisting that socialism works, i'm sure people from Poland and Cuba will be more than happy to correct you.
rugger8541 2 years ago
well ask the People Japan and Argentina and maybe they'll will correct you too and as for the Cuba and Poland they never use socialism there is no pure socialism. As for the federal agency, Social Security, FDIC.
chrisfo19 2 years ago
Japan? became an industrial giant when they adopted free market capitalism after the war. Argentina? yeah, they did great under Galtieri's dictatorship. ended up getting embarrassed by the British in the Falklands. and you use Social security as an example of a GOOD federally run program? have you intentionaly dumbed yourself down or did your teachers waste their breath on you. Social Security is bankrupt and is a horrible idea made worse only by horrible management.
rugger8541 2 years ago
Social security and Medicare are in financial crisis not because they aren't needed, or because they were inefficiently run. The problem is that successive administrations, and the Bush administration in particular, neglected to insure the liabilities were funded. Instead they kept spending & borrowing money from China & other countries in order to fund tax cuts for the rich.
megarational 2 years ago
spoken like someone who's never seen the federal government in action. they are in crisis because they were bad ideas from the start. the federal governement is not meant to support the masses.
rugger8541 2 years ago
The federal government IS set up to give the masses a voice.
megarational 2 years ago
Tell seniors that depend on Medicare that it was a bad idea.
You're a brainwashed idiot.
megarational 2 years ago
I'll tell them that. and i'll tell them that Social Security was even worse. you see it's MY money that's being wasted. I should be allowed to opt out at any time. but according to hippies like you, I should be FORCED to pay for crap I don;t want. I should be made to support others. that is what the constitution was created to stop.
rugger8541 2 years ago
Worried about wasting your money? Why don't you seem concerned about the waste of your h.c. money for private insurance corporate jets, profits, exorbitant CEO salaries, advertising departments, and billions spent in campaign contributions & lobbying?
megarational 2 years ago
@megarational You are a damn FOOL stop replying to my comment. I can care less about your screw up liberal thinking.
brianlugen 2 years ago
Did you get that postcard from Brazil yet you know the one that your boss send you from when you lost your Job to a Brazilian.
chrisfo19 2 years ago
Did you get your number yet? So when obama calls your number he can give you a package. The package will include how munch money you are allow to make, what job you will be doing according to there needs, where to live due to overpopulation in some areas, what food is acceptable to eat that way you won't run up HC cost, how many children you can have, and your carbon credits and how to buy more when you run out.
This way everybody will be equal. This sounds fair doesn't it.
brianlugen 2 years ago
Wow talk about Over-dramatic typical Right wing Bastard, still stuck in the 20th Century also say hi to McCarthy in Hell. But anyway About that Postcard from Rio where a brazilian is doing your job.
chrisfo19 2 years ago
Your the dumb ass wanting to "spread the wealth"
How do you think that will be done.
Let me know how everybody will be equal in fantasy world I know Obama magic!!
brianlugen 2 years ago
I don't think he is magic and plus you haven't paying attention but the economy is starting to grow again. You are starting to see some signs of improvement, Of course jobs haven't grown. But thats common in all Economic meltdowns first the economy heals and then the jobs come back.
chrisfo19 2 years ago
Thats been common in all recessions I mean we had other recessions, back in the late 1950's, 1970's, late 1980's, early 1990's, and up to 2001 and 2009.
chrisfo19 2 years ago
brianlugen, the U.S. has a progressive income tax system, that even conservatives like John McCain are "in favor of".
What do you think a progressive income tax does if not "spread the wealth".
You are SO clueless.
megarational 2 years ago
@megarational It just gets better and better with you. I thought you were maybe better than that but you have a fixation on downgrading me for your own gain. I am a america and for you to keep kicking me when I am open minded to other views is disgraceful. That is why I'm losing respect for our president. He is downgrading fellow Americans to push is agenda.
brianlugen 2 years ago
You don't seem care much about thinking period.
megarational 2 years ago
You don't to seem to care to much about personal responsibility. Because we need someone to blame. Because someone must have made those people poor. When bad decisions are made like, to have kids at a early age are more than you can afford, are to do drugs instead of work, are to never push yourself at work and just get by, There are many reasons we have poor people. But when govt steps in time after time and says it not your fault and points the finger. What message are we sending to our kids.
brianlugen 2 years ago
Don't play all high and Mighty you bastards have pointing fingers at clinton. I am about that about work you idiot, But I just believe both sides the Private sector and the Govts are corrupt not like your one-sided opinion. Plus i told I am a university students. I made through I got good grades, never did drugs, got a girl pregnant. Look who is stereotyping, show how much of fake you are.
chrisfo19 2 years ago
Damn man you can't wait to finish school and get a job work for a few years and then you will have your america dream. It must be so ruff being poor for a little while.That is your problem you want it NOW. Why should you work your ass when the rich are being handed money right. I was poor for ten years. I did not go to college becuse I barly pass HS. I did not wait for govt to step in and help me. I went to work and build my America dream from NOTHING.
brianlugen 2 years ago
But i believe that both forces can work together. I mean in a real marriage you wouldn't you let your wife do all the work or her let you do all the work. How about both share the work, thats what the Govt. and the Private are a couple and like all marriages they are suppose to cooperate.
chrisfo19 2 years ago
That high school you barely passed was a government school system. And you didn't have to pay for it. Other taxpayers did.
megarational 2 years ago
Yeah, yeah, the old "I pulled myself up by my bootstraps". That shit never gets old. Nobody is saying don't work. The purpose of h.c. reform is to ensure that if you get sick or injured you can get h.c. regardless of income, so you can get back to work.
megarational 2 years ago
I do want to spread the wealth. But at the same time I want people to use that money wisely and work for. Thats what he is trying to do but your to blind to see that because you still in 1955 in your little mind. Still using the same scare tactics that were used by McCarthy and his goons.
chrisfo19 2 years ago
brianlugen - the simplistic views of a simpleton.
megarational 2 years ago
I know your reply will be what about the fat cats and there personal responsibility to the public are that the poor people have no choice, are what about the sick the weak the old who can't do it for themselves.
brianlugen 2 years ago
Well they haven't been doing their jobs right. look at the cases of elderly abuse in the US they are the highest than any industrialized country.
chrisfo19 2 years ago
Also I guess you've never been outside the US. Because in fact Socialism is successful and that in fact it got a country out of the worst Economic crisis in History.
chrisfo19 2 years ago
Go to school get a job work you ass off to become something. Then look around you and really see who are the ones a burden to this society. Then one day you may be on top and the govt will be there to limit your full potential becuse you are consider to be the rich.
brianlugen 2 years ago
As Much of an honour that is, I am going to be a teacher who teachers history or Linguistics. I mean I know politics is a dirty game but thats not cut out for me.
chrisfo19 2 years ago
Good for you we can't never have enough teachers. But please america is one of the best places on earth no matter what is being told by the media or other outlets.
There are no limits to the greatest of this country. if govt will let us grow to our full potential. We will have up and downs but living in a truly free country good will always preville.
brianlugen 2 years ago
Its true that this the best place, but I have seen many people suffer left and right. Why can't we let them have a chance too. My mission in life is too end poverty for good.
chrisfo19 2 years ago
I hope you do but Lets not use more govt to get that done
brianlugen 2 years ago
America's prob. isn't just big gov.t, but bad gov.t Gov.t can marshal the will and the resources to accomplish public interest goals that create a great nation to live in. The bad rep gov't has in the U.S. is because of corporatism that allows deep pockets to fund campaigns & do massive lobbying. Regardless, only gov't will insure universal access to affordable h.c. care. Why? Because providing h.c. costs money - doesn't make profit unless you charge more for h.c. than you pay out.
megarational 2 years ago
If there was a way to know what business are doing with there money like how munch do they pay their employees the benefits they provide and if they keep there business in america. Maybe through a Internet site where the consumer can keep tabs on what business is best for the workers. and if big business would not precipitate in this program that would throw a red flag, what are they hiding.
brianlugen 2 years ago
We could eliminate the middle man "the gov". Maybe we could drive up better pay more and better benefits with our choice for companies to compete for us. That way we could directly receive raises from companies instead of high taxes the gov takes and then takes there percentage to pay gov workers and then they pass that down to us. No middle man.
brianlugen 2 years ago
Want to eliminate "middlemen"? They why defend private insurance companies?
megarational 2 years ago
It is just a thought. I know there would be problems with this idea but I would rather the people fix the problems with our economy than the gov stepping in to do it for us.
brianlugen 2 years ago
Government, good government that is, IS the peoples mechanism for fixing some types of national problems.
megarational 2 years ago
If you have a good government, not the partisan shit bag bough-&-paid-for douche bags, then the government should be the way people can fix some of the problems. The only proviso is that you have to have a government that is more concerned about the people than about partisan politics & appeasing their campaign contributors.
megarational 2 years ago
There is a fine line between the ones who need help and the ones who abuse the help. Govt can't seem to find that line that is why I am against more govt programs becuse I am all for ending poverty. My mom was on food stamps for years. But the abuse I see everyday is huge. That is way conservative are against more govt. They some how find a way to let the ones who need it slip through the cracks.
brianlugen 2 years ago
I mean I am a liberal but I still hold some conservative values too I believe in hard work I mean I know we can't have things handed on a silver platter forever. But i believe in all ideas comming together wether is socialist, Capitalist, Conservative, Progressive, and Democratic why can't we bring these things together to form a solution I believe in mixture of ideas to come together as one. I mean in some health care systems like Japan and Taiwan the don't use gate keepers.
chrisfo19 2 years ago
That makes sense but the people have to stop believing all the hype that our govt and media and radio talk show host are putting into the air. I believe our govt can fix things if done right. It will help if liberals would believe that the rich play a big part in our society. Yes their are corruption on both sides of the isle. I'm not taking up for the rich but we need not to demonized just one group to progress as a nation. Like you said work together as one.
brianlugen 2 years ago
The rich play a big part in our society?
The most critical attribute of a healthy country is a large middle class, and small wealthy class & small "poor" class.
In the U.S. the middle class has been shrinking & the gap between rich & poor widening.
Some so called "entitlement" programs, such as universal health care access, slow that widening gap.
megarational 2 years ago
Yeah the rich can play a big part in our society. In fact we can raise tax rates slightly on the ultra-rich to ensure just that.
A small tax increase would not even mean they had to give up even one Porsche, mansion, world vacation, or yacht. They would still be super-rich. But the money could help fund h.c. for those without insurance, and would be a small measure to slow the widening rich-poor gap.
megarational 2 years ago
If the government is so limiting potential, why does the trend toward concentration of the nations wealth in the hands of the wealthy continue?
megarational 2 years ago
And that country is Sweden; During the Great depression sweden wa hit hard unemployement was rising, production was declining. But that all changed in 1932 when the Social democrats along with the farmers party. with a combinations of Socialist and democratic processes Sweden was able to pull out of the Depression much early than the rest of the world. In fact by 1936 production was at 50% twice as high than in 1929.
chrisfo19 2 years ago
I'll quit replying to your comments when you stop making such stupid comments.
megarational 2 years ago
I SHOULD be concerned about insurance companies wasting my money? isn't that my choice?
rugger8541 2 years ago
Nope. You have no choice over the private insurance companies diverting your h.c. dollars to such things as corporate jets & lobbying, unless you choose not to buy h.c. insurance. However, if you can afford h.c. insurance it's your personal responsibility to buy it. Otherwise if you end up in the emergency ward, or have a debilitating illness or actually live to a ripe old age you could be receiving medical care that you never contributed toward.
megarational 2 years ago
I could care less about what insurance companies do with their money. if I don't like it, I'll go elsewhere. and if democrats weren't hell bent on creating socialism, they'd allow interstate trade between healthcare companies like ALL other businesses. it's how THEY keep costs low. but with you, good business is some kind of conspiracy isn't it.
rugger8541 2 years ago
rugger, do you realize that the "exchange" set up by either h.c. bill is a mechanism that allows cross state insurance co. competition?
megarational 2 years ago
you dug that up somewhere in the thousands of pages of legislation that has yet to be made public did you?
rugger8541 2 years ago
It's only been repeated time after time on all the major media outlets (except Fox News of course.)
Here's a reference from Dec 5 New York Times: "So far, the House proposal calls for the creation of a national exchange where someone in Iowa, for example, may have the same choice of health plans as buyers in Maine and California. Because insurance is now a state-by-state patchwork, such an approach would conceivably enhance competition by creating an interstate market.
megarational 2 years ago
Hey rugger, how is it that you profess to know so much about the h.c. reform bills that you are opposing, yet were somehow unaware that a national "exchange" set up by the house bill in particular effectively allows cross-state insurance company competition?
megarational 2 years ago
hey, which page did you read that one on? 1423 or 987? or are you again relying on the Democrats to "tell you" what to think? are you that naive about polictics that you don't realize that the more a bill says the less it will do?
rugger8541 2 years ago
Those were from my downloaded copy of HR3962 House Bill.
megarational 2 years ago
So back to the question you still haven't answered: How is it that you profess to know so much about the h.c. reform bills yet were somehow unaware that a national "exchange" set up by the house bill in particular could effectively allow cross-state insurance company competition?
megarational 2 years ago
oh and in your "examination" of the bill where you "discovered" all these great things. did you also discover that of the 31 million the bill professes to bring free healthcare to, 15 million of them get it by being dumped into the already defunct medicade program? and since you so adamantly bash those evil privat insurace companies for being cruel you probably never realized that Medicare has a "refusal" rate that's double that of private insurance companies. Hope And Change eh?
rugger8541 2 years ago
rugger, you are not the first idiot to quote higher Medicare claim denial rates without knowing what role private insurance companies play in those denials. You could prove me wrong by explaining that role because it's absolutely critical in interpreting the high claim denial rates. If you can't explain it and simply tap dance some more, I'll explain it to you on a later comment.
megarational 2 years ago
@megarational go back to canada and stop kissing our government ass becuse you believe they have all the answers. It is really great to see our great govt at their finest trying to pass this HC at any cost and go against everything they campaign on that they said they would not do. Foolish gullible man you are to actually believe this is really only about HC.
brianlugen 2 years ago
megarational, you are not the first idiot to look to big government to solve your problems. they usually call themselves democrats. the problem is democrats look at other governments like Cuba and the Soviet Union as the role model.
rugger8541 2 years ago
Actually, I would hope that Democrats look not only at Cuba and the Soviet Union, but also at the h.c. systems of all other countries, to see what elements commonly seem to work and what elements don't. Such open-mindedness is definitely not something we could ever expect from you or from the GOP.
megarational 2 years ago
Yes they are so open minded that they work deals behind close doors, bride people from their own party to vote for this bill. They won't even consider what the other side has to say in our own country but you think they will look to other countries for answers. They are the ones that are close minded you fool.
brianlugen 2 years ago
As opposed to you, brianlugen, who have shown such open-mindedness in comment after comment?
You are so narrow minded you could see through a keyhole with both eyes. .
megarational 2 years ago
I guess you can't explain the close mindedness in washington so you just do what you do best and make yourself feel better by calling names.
brianlugen 2 years ago
By the way, rugger8541, since you quoted Medicare denial rates I asked you what role private insurance rates directly play in Medicare claim denials - since that is critical to interpretation of the denial rates. You have found time to put more random bullshit on subsequent comments, but still haven't answered the direct question on Medicare claim denials. What's a matter? Don't know the answer?
megarational 2 years ago
Letting the human mind expand is a result of what free market has done for america and no limitations on what it can be if we would try to let it grow with peoples choice. govt will set limitations kill innovation and restrict freedoms. We need govt for national defense, emergency programs and laws. more than that is consider to be control of the masses. Unless you think people are stupid as a whole and can't learn to fix our problems without govt stepping in to do it for us.
brianlugen 2 years ago
If you didn't like the way insurance companies waste your h.c. dollars on exorbitant executive salaries & lobbying (for only some examples), you'd "go elsewhere"?
In case you haven't noticed it - there's nowhere else to go for insurance. Thanks to weak minded fools like you every attempt at national health care programs by both Republican & Democratic governments over the last 100 years have been defeated by the same propaganda being used now - the same propaganda you bought into.
megarational 2 years ago
@megarational I understand you. You act as if people are stupid and don't know what is going on with big business or insurance companies. You think I'm just a small town man who says "down with govt". Your views are nothing anybody doesn't already know. You have faith in govt. Everything govt, as if they are the answer to your problems. Of course corporate america run this country, that is not a news flash. They paid politician to make decision base on their Growth as a business.
brianlugen 2 years ago
Faith in government has nothing to do with it. Whatever I think about the rotten state of government and the American political system I'm smart enough to realize it's foolish to depend on the private "for-profit" sector to insure universal access to affordable h.c. regardless of income.
megarational 2 years ago
Would you agree govt programs are abused by the people?
brianlugen 2 years ago
If the only way a social program could be implemented is if there were zero abuse we wouldn't have any social programs.
What costs more, abuse in the Medicare program, or the billions insurance co.s waste on campaign contributions, lobbying, and the h.c. dollars they divert to advertising, duplication of bureaucracies, corporate jets, absurdly high CEO salaries, and fighting claim payments?
megarational 2 years ago
Would you agree that the abuse people are doing to these govt program are costing tax payers millions of dollars and creating a socity that becomes depended on their programs.
brianlugen 2 years ago
No putz. The programs don't create the need. They are a response to the need.
megarational 2 years ago
A health society is more productive, and that increases the productivity and reduces taxes.
megarational 2 years ago
that is if you believe health care is everyone's "right." to healthcare. next you'll be insisting everyone has a "right" to a home and a car and that we the taxpayers have to cover that. great idea. what's the point of me working harder than others and prospering if hippies like you believe in taking away the fruits of my labor? Oh wait I forgot, you're a socialist like your boy Barry Obama.
rugger8541 2 years ago
The Senate bill passed. For one time in the U.S. history of ]trying for h.,c. & h.c. insurance reform idiots like you are not going to be able to stop it.
megarational 2 years ago
HA. yes go ahead celebrate. then remember this joy when it gets dismanteled after turning into yet another government debacle like social security, medicare, welfare, etc etc etc.
rugger8541 2 years ago
and just be sure to look at the U.S. debt under your boy barry. up 2 trillion with his hippie spending in just 1 year. that's hope and change!
rugger8541 2 years ago
and for your information. the senate bill didn't pass. the senate voted to end debate. the vote goes on christmas eve.
rugger8541 2 years ago
a formality. You know it & I know it.
But I can see why you have to scratch at straws.
megarational 2 years ago
the senate bill passed.
megarational 2 years ago
transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency. is a quote from your boy barry. and here we see a secret healtcare bill thousands of pages long drafted behind closed doors and pushed through in a vote before people have a chance to even study it. that's hope and change we can believe in!
rugger8541 2 years ago
I see the Fox News & GOP partisan bullshit have found fertile ground in your little brain.
The GOP - ruled by the rich, supported by the stupid.
megarational 2 years ago
@megarational I see you still think that your superior mind is greater than others, and still a fool to think that our govt will fix our problems.
brianlugen 2 years ago
If it was such a secret process why have i been able to download copies of the bills from the net, and why have I been able to watch weeks and months of debate on the bills on all news channels, and why were there public forums on h.c. reform held across America, and why have so many Republican amendments been accepted?
Lugen, you are a total idiot.
megarational 2 years ago
The govt is creating a parasite you don't see it becuse you live up north. I live in the south and see this parasite that relies on govt for every part of life and they want more and more they feed off of the working class becuse they deserve to have things giving to them. I not taking about the ones who work and can't afford HC of course something needs to be done about that. You are the one who can't see why people oppose this bill you believe I believe in the scare tactics to oppose this bill
brianlugen 2 years ago
So what's your "totally free market" solution to solve the problems of rising h.c. costs, millions of uninsured, millions more of under-insured, and the growing number of Americans in those categories?
Don't just say: tort reform & cross state insur. co. competition, because the CBO has already analyzed that those solutions would not significantly affect either the rising h .c. costs or the no. of uninsured. (not to say that they shouldn't be done).
megarational 2 years ago
The same way we have became the greatest place on earth. People standing together and making a choice to demand better coverage. The way our jobs provide us HC, vacation, sick leave time, better pay. The same way companies compete for our business and come up with innovation to better their products. We need to be more involved in the companies that provide service for us and choose what is best for america not the cheapest. It can be done through the free market but we have to try.
brianlugen 2 years ago
That;s your "specific solutions", wait for "people to stand together & demand better coverage"? Does that mean you'll be telling insur. co.s what to do?
Once you choose "what's best for America" how do you get the insur. co.s & corp.s to comply? By legislation?
And would the insur. co.s & corp. world suspend their campaign donations, propaganda & lobbying to give people time to "stand together"?
Brianlugen, you are a simpleminded child living in a technicolor dream world.
megarational 2 years ago
And now we have the best work conditions in the world. Compare our jobs in the field to other countries. I see videos of foreign jobs that is how we learn what can happen when you don't follow safety.
brianlugen 2 years ago
Explain how we improve our condition in the past without govt doing it for us. Oh great one!!
brianlugen 2 years ago
You are the simpleminded fool who can't see what problems the govt will create in the future of the peoples abilities and punishment for success.
brianlugen 2 years ago
It might be hard to work through the free market to fix our problems but I think it will pay off in the long run becuse the possiblity will have no limitation on them. There is a reason why we are a great country becuse of less govt and more freedom to become great. We just have to have the drive in our system to work these problems out with out more govt control. Lets not destroy our free market system becuse of hate.
brianlugen 2 years ago
So your solution is to let tens of thousands of Americans die annually from lack of access to the h.c. system (other than emergency room stabilization), and let the costs continue to rise and the problem to worsen until some time in the who-knows-when future when hopefully we find some way to find all the solutions through the free market?
That's your alternative to h.c. reform now?
megarational 2 years ago
I guess when govt takes over everybody will get the care they need? I am trying to make you understand that we could improve our HC way beyond what govt can do for us. either way we go it will take years for us to improve. But only one way we will have the greatest HC in the world. Just like we have other great thing in america. It will take time. You have to think further than the present to become great.
brianlugen 2 years ago
Who is talking about gov't "taking over", except for GOP propaganda?
Did the gov't "take over" manufacturing when it legislated health & safety standards?
megarational 2 years ago
Like I said before if govt would have step in to save people in the 1900's from poor work conditions where would we be now?
brianlugen 2 years ago
The government did step in to save people in the 1930's from poor work conditions. It did sot because enough people wanted it because the problem got so bad.
It's the same as the situation now where the problems of lack of h.c. insurance & the skyrocketing costs of h.c. has become such a large & worsening problem that more and moe people are demanding that their government do something about it.
megarational 2 years ago
Not this way we want reform.
brianlugen 2 years ago
there was no healthcare problems until the 1960's when oh wait a minute. that's when the Federal Government began to get involved in healthcare. quite whining aobut the MILLIONS AND MILLIONS who will die in back alleys. the American people don't buy that argument which is why everyday more turn against the democrats and healthcare. be prepared for disapointment when the overwhelming republican majority in 2013 overturns this legislation.
rugger8541 2 years ago
Yeah, we can hardly wait for a nation ruled by Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, & the same GOP cockroaches that fucked it up so bad the last time they were in power. .
megarational 2 years ago
People dying due to lack of health care access is not a argument, its the findings of research studies. It's a fact.
megarational 2 years ago
OH no, the people are ALL dying due to lack of healthcare. and yet somehow the birthrate continues to rise and population continues to expand. hey guess what hippie? people die WITH healthcare too. shit happens. if you want healthcare, go get insurance. or move to Canada but be prepared to wait in line a long time since socialized medicine has its drawbacks.
rugger8541 2 years ago
You say "somehow the birth rate continues to rise". You don't even slow your typing when you decide to make up facts. Here's the real situation: "Continuing a 12-year decline, the U.S. birth rate has dropped to the lowest level since national data have been available, according to statistics just released by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC). The rate of births among teenagers also fell to a new record low, continuing a decline that began in 1991."
Your consistent lies typify a fanatic.
megarational 2 years ago
and yet the population gets bigger cause more people get born. einstein!
rugger8541 2 years ago
And millions of illegal aliens continue to cross the borders, unchecked by successive governments caving to corporate demands for cheap labor.
Is that supposed to be good for the U.S.?
megarational 2 years ago
So what you seem to be saying is that we shouldn't worry about Americans dying from lack of access to affordable health care, so long as the total population continues to increase?
If that's not what you are saying why did you even bring up increasing population as relevant to people dying from lack of affordable health care?
Or maybe, in your fevered "brain" the fact that the population continues to increase is proof that no one is dying from lack of access to health care??
megarational 2 years ago
you can worry about Americans dying from your PERCEIVED lack of healthcare. worry your ass off for all I care. But use someone elses money to clear your conscience. my money is my property.
rugger8541 2 years ago
"Perceived" deaths from lack of h.c.?
John Hopkins Childrens Center study, pub. In Journal of Public Health: Lack of adequate health care may have contributed to the deaths of some 17,000 US children over the past two decades. .. was compiled from more than 23 million hospital records from 37 states between 1988 and 2005.
The ..concluded that children w/o health insur.are statistically far more likely to succumb to their illnesses than those with medical coverage.
megarational 2 years ago
Oh my God! 17,000. you know 6,000 people died from falling last year. I think we need sweeping legislation that will drastically increase our debt in order to fix this! of course those damn republicans and their ladder lobby will probably try to stop it.
rugger8541 2 years ago
That's your idea of rational argument? To say that we should ignore the 17,000 deaths of children from lack of h.c. because 6000 people died from falling last year?
You are one gross & disgusting waste of skin.
megarational 2 years ago
OH my God! 60,000 people died on highways last year! we need trillions of dollars of legislation passed immediately. someone start an inter-governmental panel to look into this matter and form a binding PARTISAN resolution by the democrats to make all Americans ride bikes. just like China. you know China, the one your boy Barry soooo admires!
rugger8541 2 years ago
Actually, the government regulations continue to address the highway death tolls, with measures such as crash test standards, improved highway designs, highway signage standards & conventions, seat belts, and drunk driving laws.
But maybe all that "government intervention" was unnecessary? Maybe we shouldn't interfere when unsafe vehicles are marketed? Maybe traffic signs are just a waste of taxpayers money? After all, I can drive without signage so why should I have to pay for it?
megarational 2 years ago
"actually the government keeps addressing...." listen to you, you're just such a good little nazi. the government has been ADDRESSING automobiles since the 1970's and the death stoll skyrocketed upwards since then and has been going up ever since. in fact I'll make the bold prediction that highway deaths will always stay above 50,000 a year. no go tell the democrats to fix that with Hope and change!
rugger8541 2 years ago
So what would the comparable death rate have been without automobile crash testing & safety standards, seat belts, etc? Rather important to know if you are commenting on their impact on death rated don't you think?
Oh, yeah, your "Nazi" reference, - right on - after all Hitler was all about automotive safety standards.
megarational 2 years ago
Your view of "why we are a great country" is as simplistic as your view of the h.c. issue.
America became great because, for eg. it had an abundance of natural resources, it was virtually the worlds only oil producer & exporter and the resulting flood of wealth supported a high standard of living, low taxes & high investments; massive immigration created decades of increasing demand; the free market maximized innovation & development, the "mix" created a huge mfg. infrastructure & exports.
megarational 2 years ago
oh great another hippie with the "America is only great because we have so much B.S. argument" we are great because we have constantly outperformed other nations. agriculturally, industrially and militarily. not becuase a lump of minerals were waiting here for us to take.
rugger8541 2 years ago
If anyone wants a clear demonstration of the way you misrepresent everything all they have to do is compare your description of what I said with what I actually said.
Also, you claim that "we have constantly outperformed other nations..." ignoring the fact that in recent years some European & Asian nations have been outperforming the U.S. in balance of trade, economic progress, and increases in standard of living. The way you misrepresent things you should B a Republicon. Oh right - you are.
megarational 2 years ago
I didn't know Santa went to the rich kids houses and stole there toys to give to poor kids.
brianlugen 2 years ago
Yeah, well, now you do.
megarational 2 years ago
Just wait until we have more carbon taxes becuse of "global warming" we will be last in economic progress. Thanks to good old govt.
brianlugen 2 years ago
Europe and Asia have not been "outperforming" us they've been "outselling." big difference. U.S. industry has ouproduced its major competitors in most areas to include quality. unfortuantely it costs more to build here thanks to deadbeat socialists that call themselves democrats and their want to "tax those evil corporations." thank God for labor unions and thier ability to destroy an industry.
rugger8541 2 years ago
One reason for the U.S. car manufacturers loss of market share for the last 30 years is that they built low quality cars.
As for corporate taxes, even if the tax rates were even with our Asian, Mexican, and South American competitors parts the Corp.s would still choose to manufacture overseas for the far cheaper labor rates & lack of regulations & safety standards. To really compete U.S. wages have to fall & regulations gutted. It's just the corporate & GOP supported "race to the bottom".
megarational 2 years ago
cheaper labor rates? you mean there are places on earth that don't mandate 25 bucks an hour for unskilled labor? oh my, how can that be? but the Unions are so wise how can they permit this to happen. maybe they need to endorse more Dimwit Democrats to keep their unskilled severance packages in tact.
rugger8541 2 years ago
if you think unskilled labor like sweeping floors gets you $25/hr. in the U.S., perhaps you should look at your local newspaper job listings.
Just another example of your simple minded over-the-top hyperbole.
I doubt you even have the IQ of a Tea-Bagger.
megarational 2 years ago
yeah, don't you get it. the jobs are gone BECAUSE of those nice high union wages. big labor and socialist democrats helped to implode our manufacturing industry.
rugger8541 2 years ago
Yeah, if the American workers would only accept third world wages the corporations would not have wanted to send the jobs overseas.
So that's the GOP and rugger8541 solution: third world wages for American workers.
megarational 2 years ago
no, if they would however accept profit sharing rather than be fat and happy making a shitload even while the company suffers maybe just maybe GM would still be in flint michigan.
rugger8541 2 years ago
Hey, if the profit sharing gave the same benefits as the union negotiated wages, the companies would still prefer to take the jobs overseas where the workers don't demand profit sharing.
(Not that I'm against profit sharing agreements - actually I'm very much in favor of them.)
megarational 2 years ago
because unions are just as selfish as evil CEO's, just say it! they don't CARE about their job they just care about themselves and want their pay. which is exactly the same picture people like you make the CEO's out to be.
rugger8541 2 years ago
Like I said on previous comments, you have to remove the power of money from the election & political system if you ever want good government. Some steps include: publicly funded elections and prohibiting campaign contributions from corporations AND UNIONS.
megarational 2 years ago
publicly funded elections? taking power and money out of the political system? and you look to Obama for that? the democrats have had more money from private contributors than the republicans in the last 4 presidential elections. Obama went back on his promise to rely solely on public donations where McCain did. Hope and Change. Bill Cinton took Millions from China. some day you'll realize that democrats are worse than the eveil you portray republicans as.
rugger8541 2 years ago
In general, neither government can be trusted so long as money rules the election & political process.
megarational 2 years ago