democratic my ass..........whats democratic about cohersion? No used to mean no, now its go and hold that vote again and again until you deliver the result we want..........by the way, u must be enjoying the recovery that lisbon promised!?? lol what a bag of shite!
NO vote = we are still in the EU, like we are now, and the EU must be more accountable to the people of Europe. It stops the runaway power of the EU parliament and its gravy train expenses.
YES vote = no way back, we can't undo mistakes made in the treaty or the EU, our say in EU is halved. Some countries say is doubled.
The mature thing is to stand up and tell EU to correct the problems, not to give in to the accusing tut-tutting of EU politicians trying to tell us we should be embarrassed.
NO vote = we are still in the EU, like we are now, and the EU must be more accountable to the people of Europe. It stops the runaway power of the EU parliament and its gravy train expenses.
YES vote = no way back, we can't undo mistakes made in the treaty or the EU, our say in EU is halved. Some countries say is doubled.
The mature thing is to stand up and tell EU to correct the problems, not to give in to the accusing tut-tutting of EU politicians trying to tell us we should be embarrassed.
"In the guise of reform,this treaty will give significant new powers to the EU over almost all aspects of our lives,with a concomitant reduction in Ireland's voting strength and sovereign power .Most frightening of all however is the obscene militarisation of the EU" (Catheline Connolly).
" The Lisbon treaty will lead to a burocratic dictatorship" (Prof.Schachtschneider, Nurenberg University).
WAKE UP BRAVE IRISH !
YES to a democratic Europe,NO to the Lisbon treaty and "president" Blair !
Ireland: do the right thing VOTE NO!, with this treaty:
- EU court in Strasbourg can destroy ANY Irish law
- You'll lose you're ability to decide about Immigration, military and taxation.
- Immigrants from Eastern Europe will
be able to travel and work freely in EU. Ireland will face another massive flood of immigrants, who will work for up to 60% less money then Irish workers.
- The legal minimum wage will be reduced to 1.84
Don't be fooled by the lies of the government, Vote NO.
I am voting no - but I would like to point out that your message is not encouraging anyone because your facts are untrue. We keep our laws on Military and taxation and as always our own government determines our minimum wage. However I see no reason to vote Yes. All it does it decrease our voting power by 55% while increasing Germany's by 110%. We currently are members of the EU and have the same rights within the EU as all other 26 states so WHY CHANGE THIS???
The European Commission has been accused of "unlawful" interference in Ireland's referendum after paying for a 16-page guide to the Lisbon Treaty to be
inserted into national newspapers.
Campaigners for a "No" vote have threatened a legal challenge after 1.1 million copies of the European Union booklet were distributed, at a cost to the
the IT and the SI forecast a YES vote on the 2nd of October.Lets hope that this will be the outcome for Ireland and for Europe.Vote Yes on the 2nd of October.
Paddy Power bookmakers are giving odds of only 1/25 on a 'Yes' vote. In other words, they're virtually certain of a 'Yes' result. The odds of a 'No' vote are fixed at 8/1, meaning that Paddy Power think that such an outcome is exceptionally unlikely.
YES SIDE: all international chambers of commerce, most independent economists, 3 main political parties, IFA, IBEC, SIPTU, ICTU, most major trade unions, Pfizer, Ryanair, Intel, Microsoft.
Did you know that the constitutional courts of Germany and Austria have blocked implication of large sections of the infamous Lisbon treaty/constitution ?
Justice & Home Affairs,tax and finance,social security,education,policing and military etc. will REMAIN in the hands of democratically elected Germans and Austrians.
Neither will the EU Court of Justice rule over/on Germans !
What a shame this will not be the case in Ireland if the treaty is ratified.
Lisbon only bring stupid imigration from third world-islamization of europe and will become policy super stat, where origin people will be under racists attacks.
greatings from slovakia, where our goverment didnt ask about people opinion because is corrupted.
" This referendum is not an Irish battle. It is a European battle fought on Irish soil between the peoples of Europe that support democracy and the elite of Europe that want an empire"
(Roger Cole,PANA).
Here in Germany people were denied a say but we also want to keep our own CONSTITUTION and do not want OUR LAWS to originate from an un-elected commission of rich foreigners in Brussels !
Ireland,PLEASE VOTE NO (again) and save democracy in Europe for all our children !
Watch us vote no again dude it aint gonna happen EU= Germany, France, Uk, Spain the rest are have no real say in real matters so why do i have to live under their laws?
"Within the Eu itself,we will have to move closer to establishing a common European army" ( Angela Merkel ).
" The need to bolster Europe's military capabilities to match our aspirations is more urgent than ever " ( The EU's Javier Solana ).
" I am sure that in medium-term we will have a European army financed by the EU budget (i.e. us taxpayers). ( W.Schönfelder,German ambassador to the EU ).
sensualism and lies are the only arguments of the no campaign.ireland has answered the no campaign already with a resounding defeat of all the major players in the no campaign last time. Irish voters realise that they had been lied to by libertas, by Coir and by idiots such as katy sinnot and patricia mckenna who have no grasp on reality.Its time to make the European project a REALITY.i will be proudly VOTING YES in october.
Have you read this things? how did we answer 'the no campaign already with a resounding defeat of all the major players in the no campaign last time'??? we said NO! do u really want to be an anonymous person on the edge of Europe? all the propaganda about the only way to save our economy! well, it wil be if we say no cos Europe will ruin us. the government has lied2us, and the UKs government lied2them,and millions of votes have been ignored!so caled Assurances arent even in writing!
Please vote NO to the Lisbon Constitution. It is not good enough to have a European Constitution that reads like a phone book and that only the Irish citizens get to vote on. Democracy is in the hands of the Irish people. Voting no to Lisbon will not change the economic situation for the better or the worse. This is a tactic being used by the Government and certain media with vested interests in a yes vote to distract from the actual content of the Treaty. Please do not be fooled, vote NO.
The Lisbon Treaty creates a secretive new Standing Committee for Internal Security, known as COSI : new proposals will create an EU ID card register, internet surveillance systems, satellite surveillance, automated exit-entry border systems operated by machines reading biometrics and risk profiling systems.
Source : Open Europe/The Guardian newspaper.
It's time to for us all to wake up...unless we want a BIG BROTHER EUROPE !
We should not to worry on issues like the loss of national ID, the history of our country or for our nation military power! there is no reason to worry! me as Greek with history 5000 years never worried about such matters! and I remind you we are European! all peoples of the world have been influenced by us! so examples must pass from us! We should show a strong person and this will succeed only as a united Europe!
Your culture never influenced IRELAND celts were knocking about when the greeks were buming their kids. fuck a united europe because i dont want smelly anal lovin greeks telling Irish people what to do.
malvainmcpot.you are racist and very small minded hense your ignorance.your politics are confused (which i a polite way of saying you have none)you want to hate and hide behind a phony sense of nationalism which you probably picked up off so idiot in a bar or public toilet. your stupid and i feel sorry for you..genuine pity.Actually you are so thick i am sure you dont even vote!
French fool go eat a snail you pompous muppet. "phony sense of nationalism" explain how its phony? "sorry for you..genuine pity" your French to cowardly to fight Nazi's to protect your freedoms. Pity me no more froggy. "Actually you are so thick i am sure you don't even vote!" I do and at least Ireland is democratic enough to vote on a European treaty.
We deserve a better future in Europe! We need the union in Europe! A Europe that can pass decisions for our future united as far as economic issues, surrounding and climate change, energy, security, education, generally for the rights of all European citizens! We need a Europe that can be boss of the place! and not to accept advice from the US, must be shown how strong we are! enough to stick together!
Article 33,paragraph 6 of the Lisbon Treaty allows the 25 members of the EU executive the right (with only two exceptions) to change or declare null & void ALL rules/regulations/laws present in existing treaties relating to the ECONOMY ;TAX ;CIVIL SOCIETY ;environment etc.
« Sorry,this is a dictatorial constitution » (Prof. Schachttschneider, University of Erlangen-Nürnberg).
Only the much-bullied Irish people can stop this for all of us in Europe !
The brave Irish are the only hope left for European democrats.Hope they realise that under the (un-elected) European Court Of Justice ruling (case 274/99)it will be illegal to criticise the EU if the Lisbon Treaty gets passed. This will also automatically outlaw Independence parties and ANY political party that is not Pan-European.
IRELAND...don´t let democratic Europe down in 2009.PLEASE vote NO for us all.
An interesting thought from Maggot Wallstrom (EU Minister of Propaganda) Kemppinem head of the EU London enforcement offices 'WE did not lose one single referendum.' (This may suggest that the EC considers itself blameless re: Ireland) The other, a peach, reads: 'Yes is yes but no is unfortunate.' It was of course the ghastly Abba clone with her metronomic drone & ill kept roots who is supposedly responsible for communications! Well she failed to communicate in Ireland. Not even understanding NO
Democracy is 'citizen rule' through the ballot box, so that those who make your laws are accountable to the people. You put them there, you can take them out. It is self correcting. But the problem in Europe now is that all laws are proposed by the Commission which is a 20,000 strong civil service headed by 27 Commissioners, none of whom has any democratic legitimacy and none of who have to face an electorate.
The Lisbon Treaty makes it too easy for the rulers of Europe.
I recently carried out a survey on just under 1,000 Irish 18-24 year olds who were very politically vocal about the Treaty, both for and against. They were asked several questions and in the final analysis it was clear to see that 68% did not actually know a single term in the treaty and 87% of them displayed a profound lack of knowledge of the implications of the Treaty. For the question asking: "Do you plan to vote?" the result was 100%. Sad.
The survey was carried out 3 weeks ago over the course of 4 days. We also carried out a separate survey in the North where there were also very strong opinons but again a complete lack of knowledge. One of the questions asked if the candidate felt that the LT would affect Ireland's neutrality; 48% said yes. They were then asked to say why they felt this way. Only a handful of candidates gave a coherent and resonable answer. The others gave one or two sentence answers which were highly misguided.
Well I was working with a group of students in Newry who are giving a presentation about the Treaty and the perceptions of it among the younger electorate. The main point of interest emerging from our survey was that most of the "NO" supporters saw the Treaty as an attack on Irish sovereignty; but when asked why they gave vague and uninformed answers. The referendum, from what I can see, was a farce. I am quite neutral on the Treaty but believe that the Irish people didn't get a fair deal.
well, in the UK we never hear about europe, we never hear about whats in the treaty and what it will mean to us. The news never reports it! So if Irland have a simular lack of infomation, its no surprise they voted no, and then gave vague answers when asked why.
Indeed, but 'lack of explanation' was not given as a reason for voting NO. The people asked made wild claims about Europe and, especially in the question about Irish neutrality, they were completely misguided. If they had said something like "We don't like the Treaty because we aren't quite sure yet how it will affect us" then that would have been fair enough. But they didn't.
sure, but where there is a lack of information, there has always been rumour to fill the gaps (just human nature). This rumour may take the form of wild claims, as you say. In which casse, I say, its still the fault of a failure to supply people with information on the treaty.
Either its been mismanaged, or there is something very sinister going on, and we are being cheated. Either way, we shouldn't be signing anything until everyone knows what's being signed, as its very important.
We did. They were given an equal representation. The survey was not to determine who was going to vote yes or no, it was to see just how informed our young people are about an issue of this magnitude in which they would take an active role in the passing or rejecting of the Treaty. Yes voters received equal representation. I am quite neutral on the Treaty myself but I do believe, if it were practical (which it may not be), that another referendum should be held with a better understanding.
DId you find out that in my personal survey, meaning people I know, yes voters were doing it because they thought that by voting no they would be supporting Sinn Fein? . there you are
Actually only a handful of candidates (in fact it was less than 1%,in other words, less than 10 people) even mentioned a political party. The young people who we asked were all very vocal and opinionated about the Treaty which we believed was a suggestion that they knew a lot about it. They didn't.
i just cant understand why they voted no... i mean this treaty was quite good, at least the social part :(. imo all da countries which voted yes should be granted this. there were 26 countries which voted yes. its unfair to them for just 1 vote against :S
Wrong Malta. The other countries in the EU decided to try an force the Treaty(constitution) through without the say of the people, that's not democracy in action. Thats a dictatorship in action..We have done Europe a democratic favour.. It's not as if the people havn't said no before ie; the Nice treaty which Ireland originally said no to as well as another two or three Eu countries as well?? Europe will bully and they just don't understand No,,No..
a simple question..how many of those NO sayers read that threaty?
i think euro-american democracy is neocon crap...coz rednecks are 70% or more of all population..all they need some stupid propaganda with nacked asses ..and free whiskey
so long all those idiots can vote..nothing good will happen
Bush is a globalist einstein, he is trying to start a North American Union over here, he's already signed the S.P.P., he's just as big a traitor as your politicians
Theyre all in it together. So we do what we can to stop them. The No vote wont be enough though. They will make the treaty go through somehow. But when they do, they also show the people that democracy is dead. So, its a win, win for us.
there would be MORE democracy in europe, for the leaders, but LESS democracy in sweden, for the people. the people barely have anything to say now as it is.
I dont think you see the whole picture.
the army is about to monitor our tele traffic without our approval. but I dont have time for this. So leave me alone now please.
False. One million signs would get the commission to put under examination an issue brought up through petitioning. They could determine if they want to spend one hour, one day or ten days on it and this is absolutely no guarantee of a new law.
Proud to be Irish today. Hopefully, this will encourage more Irish people to take an interest in how their lives are being run. We still have a voice!
Es ist ein Skandal, dass diese Verfassung nicht demokratisch durch europaweite Referenden ratifiziert wird. Auf diesem Dokument baut die Demokratie auf, also braucht es auch die demokratische Legitimation!!!
@waldwaldi: Dann informiere dich doch mal genauer.
Der Vertrag würde mehr Demokratie und weniger Bürokratie bringen. Nur viele Interessieren sich gar nicht dafür, haben keine Ahnung oder sind aus Prinzip dagegen. Denn alles was aus dem fernen Brüssel kommt ist Böse.
Ich kritisiere ja nicht den Vertrag an sich; selbstverständlich würde der Vertrag vieles verbessern. Mir geht es um die undemokratische Art und Weise, wie dieser Vertrag ratifiziert wurde. Bei so wichtigen Entscheidungen möchte ich auch eine Stimme haben!!
Aber mal ganz ehrlich, das Problem is einfach, dass soviele Leute sich überhaupt nicht dafür interessieren, nicht mal wissen was der Vertrag sein soll, und dann halt mal mit NO voten, nur weil sie die EU in irgendeiner Weise kritisieren wollen. Solche Dinge sind zu komplex, dass jeder mitwählt, weil es einfach zuviele Idioten gibt, die überhaupt keine Ahnung haben. Mit dem jetzigen Vertrag von Nizza kann eine so große EU wie heute einfach nicht weiterarbeiten.
Wir haben uns als Gesellschaft für die Staatsform der Demokratie entschieden;und damit auch für die Tatsache,dass jede Entscheidung durch die Mehrheit der Bevölkerung getragen werden muss.Meiner Meinung nach ist es genau das,was die Demokratie so interessant und wertvoll macht:Jedem Menschen wird eine unglaubliche Verantwortung zugesprochen;und zugetraut!Dieses Zutrauen wird jedoch sofort zunichte gemacht,wenn man die "Idioten" aus den Entscheidungsprozessen ausschliest. Das ist reaktionär!oder?
Wir haben uns als Gesellschaft für die Staatsform der Demokratie entschieden;und damit auch für die Tatsache,dass jede Entscheidung durch die Mehrheit der Bevölkerung getragen werden muss.Meiner Meinung nach ist es genau das,was die Demokratie so interessant und wertvoll macht:Jedem Menschen wird eine unglaubliche Verantwortung zugesprochen;und zugetraut!Dieses Zutrauen wird jedoch sofort zunichte gemacht,wenn man die "Idioten" aus den Entscheidungsprozessen ausschliest. Das ist reaktionär!oder?
@Bronwaterzzz: Lol, i'm with your opinion, the Treaty of Lisbon would also bring more democrazy to Europe, but Hitler has nothing to search in this text.
Was solln dieses schwachsinnige Hitlergeschwätz schon wieder? o_O
Das is doch nur n 0815-Argument, wenn einem nix mehr einfällt....
@scharnhorst1936: The UK wants nothing, but thats normal. Of course you are the 51. State of the USA.
I think we need the EU of two speedlevels. Best example: The Schengen ... I can drive for example from Spain to Lithuana without needing a pass. Ireland and UK can't, because they - of course - didn't joined the Schengen-Treaty. :P
it can't be possible that only 4 million people had the opportunity to decide. i voted yes but the whole point of democracy is what the majority of the people want and the rest of europe wasn't given the chance to vote.
You prefer having a cabal of MEPs deciding Europes future instead. If other countrys were allowed a vote a fair percentage of them would vote no, France, Britain, Holland etc. The Irish did the correct thing and killed this undemocratic mess. The people of Europe want a social union of equal countries, not a European superstate.
Yes, some people wants a social union of equal countries, othe people wants a European Superstate, me too.
But in the 21th century, with a growing China and Russia and still a big USA, small nations like Ireland, Belgium, France, Germany can't decide things in the World. For getting a voice in world politics, we need an European Superstate.
Well that wont happen democratically. Most People in Europe want to keep their national identity and to make decisions for themselves. Every time this treaty goes to the people of Europe it is rejected because its a bridge too far for most Europeans. If a European superstate ever comes into existence it will be by undemocratic means, without the mandae of the people.
but a solution of unified control and tyranny is a not a solution...the only soulution should ever be is freedom, not one that disolves other countries freedoms with less freedom.
of course... every american is happy when he sees euro pussies fighting each other... your countries are shit... you are losers and cannot even agree on a way to integrate... I'd kick Germany, UK, France and Italy from the g8? Do you realize that these countries are going to count shit in 30-40 years? Let's create a g5: USA, China, India, Russia, Brazil. There's no room for europussies. if you start bombing each other again we're not coming again, we'll let you die on that fucked up continent.
I am not happy to see people fight, I am happy when I see common people unite to fight elitist rule as they did in Ireland. Our politicans are owned by the same central bankers that own yours.
Well it is summer so about 70% is the best we could have hoped for with people on holidays and the like but you're right 40% is pretty bad, though a lot of constituencies reached 50 so it might be higher
Right... because this was a treaty about whether we want to be independent, rather than a confusing, and technical treaty on systems within the EU. /blatant sarcasm
I think the turnout was so low because of the confusion and lies on both sides. People tend to be more apathetic and less keen to actually support a side when the issues are blurred and distorted. If there was a 'maybe' option, we might have had a higher turnout.
Many people are abstaining as the yes campaigners are unconvincing and the no campaign is horribly inaccurate (there's posters saying babies could be micro-chipped). The result looks like it's going to be a no but not because of the no campaign, one of the main reasons people have voted no is because the rest of europe doesn't get to vote... why aren't you fighting for that right instead of questioning out patriotism???
To your last question, pauljjmoran: Because the German people was turned into a bunch of horrible idiots hating their own country after WWII. No one really asks whether our "perfect democracy" is as perfect as described since the Federal Republic is so beautiful and great and much better than everything we had in 1,000 years before.
Therefore, a lot of us WANT an European state so that they don't have to be Germans anymore.
But I'm shocked that other people seem to hate their country too.
O, you don't know Germany, Mrvort. In the German Parliament, we have a party a member of which collected national flags during the football world cup in 2006 for one reason: to burn them.
We call our soldiers murderers (even the soldiers of WWI), we are not willing to honour them, we refuse to sing the first verse of the "Song of the Germans" (national anthem) since it's said to be unacceptably nationalistic and so on.
To use bad language: The Allies have cut our balls of.
I seriously didn't know this. I have friends who are German(as in, live in Germany) too.
Of all the people in the world, don't they realize that not all their soldiers in WWII were Nazis? And they don't honor the ones from World War I either?
I mean, it wasn't the soldiers that started the war, they were simply fighting in it. You can at least respect their sacrifice.
1) We have a very big memorial in Berlin for soldiers of the Red Army but I can't remember to have one for German soldiers.
We even have a memorial for deserters! Do you have a memorial for deserters in Dublin?
Do you honour men who betrayed their country? We do have such memorials!
2) The far left-wings have nice slogans, such as "Never again Germany", "Germany, die!" or "Bomger Harris, do it again!" (Harris was the Captain responsible for the bombing of Dresden.)
3) Furthermore, I've never heard in my entire life someone singing patriotic songs whether it be politicians or other people. Since world cup 2006 the (3rd verse of the) national anthem isn't that unpopular anymore, but no other songs.
4) As you have Gaelic script, we have a German script which nobody uses anymore since it's considered to be national socialistic even though it was Hitler who abolished German script in 1941.
I don't know any Irish people that hate Ireland, in fact i don't know any that don't love it. I myself don't think i could be more proud of Ireland. The turnout was actually about 50% of people over 18, that would be about and the figure would be about 70% for a general election. Just because you don't vote doesn't mean you hate your country, for the most part people don't vote because they don't know who/what to vote for.
PS: i know a few germans and they seem to be proud of their country.
52% ... get it right. Bigger turn out at the polls from NICE 1 and 2. Ireland have spoken for the rest of the other EU citizens who were unable to vote.
You really are stupid.... 40% of the population is a high turnout, since our population demographic does include the people of other nationalities such as the Polish who aren't allowed to vote and anyone under the age of 18... you are actually fucking stupid
O, now you caught me. I'm "actually fucking stupid" as you say it in best Shakespeare English. You, Sir, are truly a bright and smart man with a premium quality language.
O, I forgot something: 40 % (or now 52 %) are counted of the population which is allowed to vote and not of all people living in Ireland.
So, we should think again about the fact who is the "fucking stupid" guy Sir.
"Shakespeare English", look I know you are a fucking tool but seriously, how dumb are you? Go read a a play by the good man and you will indeed see what "Shakespeare English" is... I doubt that even you as backwards are you are use words like "jahwol". L2HISTORY
Vote NO...unless the vote will be tampered with or they will go ahead with the treaty anyways. Votes are becoming victims of corruption. Anyways, vote NO. NO MEANS NO...just as it did in 2005. Those EU people don't seem to understand that. It's obvious they have selfish plans and ideas going on. they are such children.
RadekEU,why so negative, you are acting as if we have already rejected the treaty, Yes vote is ahead in the polls you know. Ill be voting yes because I have done research but Im just gonna say with your atitute your making me change my mind referring to stupid lazy people that only watch commercials??
I see, so you are all in favor of completing Hitler's plan for Europe, only now you're doing it for Lord Rothschild and his puppets. Enjoy being liberty-less wage slaves
what's even more depressing is that's it's completely applicable in this case. If Godwin had known that Hitler was Rothschild's illegitimate son( his mother was their chambermaid ), then he could see why most of the world's evils are " hitleresque "
adrian, so you want to be a wage slave to Rothschild and complete Hitler's plan for Ireland. Its obvious you have NOT done your "proper" research if you want to vote yes. You must not like freedom, do you? Fan of Hitler, eh? Stand up for TRUTH and FREEDOM for once in your life and vote NO.
Not to mentioned the Lisbon treaty is not what they claim, it is a revamped EU constitution that permanent members voted out before. Trying to elude the rights and votes of the people by ignoring their decisions is going too far, once again. It is a pro-elitist, pro imperialist (by the fact it wants there to be a EU president, not much different from the position of Emperor if you ask me.) and strips the people of their power, once again, putting the decision making-back onto money maker tables.
"by the fact it wants there to be a EU president, not much different from the position of Emperor if you ask me."
- lol, typical commercial answer.
- in fact its not president of EU, but President of Consilium, voted by your representatives. Emperor? lol he has no real powers, he is same powerful as presidents in parliamentary republics, lol.(for stupid people presidents in parliam. republics has almost no powers.)
The worst is that irish didn´t even read the treaty. I just saw a clip on simple irish fisherman who didnt read it and will vote no...why? Because he believes the commercials, its like american presidentials - who has more money to lobby wins. Just Sad.
It was taken for granted by our government that we would vote yes, so a shambles was made of explaining and promoting the treaty. As a result of this it gave alot of anti government no campaigners a chance to make up lies and exaggerations about what is in the treaty. Both the yes and no campaigns have been quite dishonest and they now believe it is safer to vote no instead of "signing a contract they dont understand". The good thing is these people arent as motivated to vote as the yes voters.
Have you tried reading the Lisbon treaty?Very well respected figures in Irish society have said it is one of the most incomprehensible things they have ever read.
So how do you expect a fisherman to understand it when the Taoiseach (Prime minister)Brian Cowen has admitted he hasn't even read the thing in full himself.
A user friendly version?You mean that leaflet they handed around to peoples houses?I wouldn't exactly call that "user friendly".Even after the government set up a neutral committee too explain the treaty the majority of citizens still did not understand it.They haven't done much to explain it from what I can see.
But who honestly has the time to spend looking at every single detail on how the EU works?Most people don't,so how do you expect them to learn how the EU works in detail and then read the Lisbon treaty which is a few hundred pages long?
"But who honestly has the time to spend looking at every single detail on how the EU works?Most people don't,so how do you expect them to learn how the EU works in detail and then read the Lisbon treaty which is a few hundred pages long?"
- that´s why we have a directly voted parliaments to read and decide, if your MEP´s didnt read the treaty, they are simply way stupid or lazy. In that case you should start voting someone else in next polls.
Either way, if Lisbon pass you will have to learn how EU works, since EU parliament will be important in decision making and is directly voted. You will have to get used to the fact you need to start watching what is going on in Europe.
Of course they show you some poor fisherman who didn't read the treaty, when they could have just as easily showed you a NO voter who knew all about it
They were trying to make the NO voters look like simpletons, so twits like you could feel intellectually superior by voting yes
no imperialism
tver111 2 years ago
It is a great day for Democracy, for Ireland and for Europe...YOU CANT FOOL ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME...YES YES YES
iarlais 2 years ago
Those who would give up essential LIBERTY, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither and will LOSE both.
ENGLAND041987 2 years ago
democratic my ass..........whats democratic about cohersion? No used to mean no, now its go and hold that vote again and again until you deliver the result we want..........by the way, u must be enjoying the recovery that lisbon promised!?? lol what a bag of shite!
microfeck 2 years ago
Vote NO for the Lisbon Treaty
forzared101 2 years ago
Say no to fascist EU. Good luck Ireland!
lipsofashes86 2 years ago
Comment removed
NoHoeArmy 2 years ago
NO vote = we are still in the EU, like we are now, and the EU must be more accountable to the people of Europe. It stops the runaway power of the EU parliament and its gravy train expenses.
YES vote = no way back, we can't undo mistakes made in the treaty or the EU, our say in EU is halved. Some countries say is doubled.
The mature thing is to stand up and tell EU to correct the problems, not to give in to the accusing tut-tutting of EU politicians trying to tell us we should be embarrassed.
EuropesHope 2 years ago
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NO vote = we are still in the EU, like we are now, and the EU must be more accountable to the people of Europe. It stops the runaway power of the EU parliament and its gravy train expenses.
YES vote = no way back, we can't undo mistakes made in the treaty or the EU, our say in EU is halved. Some countries say is doubled.
The mature thing is to stand up and tell EU to correct the problems, not to give in to the accusing tut-tutting of EU politicians trying to tell us we should be embarrassed.
EuropesHope 2 years ago
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"In the guise of reform,this treaty will give significant new powers to the EU over almost all aspects of our lives,with a concomitant reduction in Ireland's voting strength and sovereign power .Most frightening of all however is the obscene militarisation of the EU" (Catheline Connolly).
" The Lisbon treaty will lead to a burocratic dictatorship" (Prof.Schachtschneider, Nurenberg University).
WAKE UP BRAVE IRISH !
YES to a democratic Europe,NO to the Lisbon treaty and "president" Blair !
Spenner56 2 years ago
Ireland: do the right thing VOTE NO!, with this treaty:
- EU court in Strasbourg can destroy ANY Irish law
- You'll lose you're ability to decide about Immigration, military and taxation.
- Immigrants from Eastern Europe will
be able to travel and work freely in EU. Ireland will face another massive flood of immigrants, who will work for up to 60% less money then Irish workers.
- The legal minimum wage will be reduced to 1.84
Don't be fooled by the lies of the government, Vote NO.
Tolarjev 2 years ago
you are spinning lies...and finaly people are recognising the fact. YES TO LISBON
iarlais 2 years ago
I am voting no - but I would like to point out that your message is not encouraging anyone because your facts are untrue. We keep our laws on Military and taxation and as always our own government determines our minimum wage. However I see no reason to vote Yes. All it does it decrease our voting power by 55% while increasing Germany's by 110%. We currently are members of the EU and have the same rights within the EU as all other 26 states so WHY CHANGE THIS???
Pubgirl2009 2 years ago
*** eu INTERVENTION DEEMED UNLAWFUL ***
The European Commission has been accused of "unlawful" interference in Ireland's referendum after paying for a 16-page guide to the Lisbon Treaty to be
inserted into national newspapers.
Campaigners for a "No" vote have threatened a legal challenge after 1.1 million copies of the European Union booklet were distributed, at a cost to the
taxpayer of £139,000.
WeAreTheBritish 2 years ago
the IT and the SI forecast a YES vote on the 2nd of October.Lets hope that this will be the outcome for Ireland and for Europe.Vote Yes on the 2nd of October.
iarlais 2 years ago
Paddy Power bookmakers are giving odds of only 1/25 on a 'Yes' vote. In other words, they're virtually certain of a 'Yes' result. The odds of a 'No' vote are fixed at 8/1, meaning that Paddy Power think that such an outcome is exceptionally unlikely.
1957Rotu 2 years ago
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NO SIDE: Shinners, Ganley, Socialists, Coir, Eirigi, UKIP, Le Pen, BNP.
YES SIDE: all international chambers of commerce, most independent economists, 3 main political parties, IFA, IBEC, SIPTU, ICTU, most major trade unions, Pfizer, Ryanair, Intel, Microsoft.
Who you going to trust?
urfadder 2 years ago
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If Europe is so kind to the people and hold the peoples interest a heart, why do you threat us with a bleak future?
The Irish peoples future should always be bright, no matter what the outcome of this referendum is.
Our Government have created a contradiction.
Far to many uncertainties reside within the Lisbon treaty.
Our Government can not be trusted, you know this.
Thrust your heart, in your heart lies those who fought and died for Irish Freedom.
I am Voting NO
RCIRL 2 years ago
dick roche you are ireland greatest her
history will record you as a true son and saint of ireland
just like pearse and connolly
please vote yes for jedi peace
please see my video
NunuQuadros 2 years ago
lol WHERES YOUR VIDEO GONE?
THATS RIGHT
IN THE BIN
IM VOTING NO
baconified 2 years ago
We the people have already voted,do you trust this government????? NO!!! NO!!! NO!!!
maplebanks 2 years ago 3
See Ciaran at
ROCK AGAINST LISBON
The Cobblestone, Smithfield, Baile Átha Cliath
26th September, 8 p.m
Táile €3
Yukina, The Group, Barra and the lads, DJ Shifty and our special guest Ciaran Murphy
This is a non party political event
Spread the word. Bí ann
larrycake1981 2 years ago
Did you know that the constitutional courts of Germany and Austria have blocked implication of large sections of the infamous Lisbon treaty/constitution ?
Justice & Home Affairs,tax and finance,social security,education,policing and military etc. will REMAIN in the hands of democratically elected Germans and Austrians.
Neither will the EU Court of Justice rule over/on Germans !
What a shame this will not be the case in Ireland if the treaty is ratified.
Google . No2Lisbon2 for details.
Spenner56 2 years ago
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Yes to Lisbon gives even more power to the EU !
Google these sites :
Project Indect (EU funded project to MONITOR You-tube,Facebook,blogs and comments,PC's etc for "abnormal behaviour")
EGF (the EUs own Para-military : European Gendarmerie Force)
Sitcen (the EUs own secret service)
Europol (EU cops granted immunity from criminal prosecution)
European Arrest Warrant (now being used for petty crime,see fair Trials international)
Vote NO unless you want to live in a totalitarian state !
Spenner56 2 years ago
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Pippitypopify 2 years ago
Yes to Lisbon!
EgisMore 2 years ago
N O ! ! !
CaptainBluebear08 2 years ago 2
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ProtectingDemocracy 2 years ago
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PLEASE,VOTE NO.
Lisbon only bring stupid imigration from third world-islamization of europe and will become policy super stat, where origin people will be under racists attacks.
greatings from slovakia, where our goverment didnt ask about people opinion because is corrupted.
BaulMr 2 years ago
I'm voting no again!
cathal100 2 years ago 2
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" This referendum is not an Irish battle. It is a European battle fought on Irish soil between the peoples of Europe that support democracy and the elite of Europe that want an empire"
(Roger Cole,PANA).
Here in Germany people were denied a say but we also want to keep our own CONSTITUTION and do not want OUR LAWS to originate from an un-elected commission of rich foreigners in Brussels !
Ireland,PLEASE VOTE NO (again) and save democracy in Europe for all our children !
Spenner56 2 years ago
We must vote NO to boot Fianna Fail from power in an election of no confidence..
We MUST stop NAMA or else our kids kids will be paing off these fat cats for ever.
A NO vote is a vote for JUSTICE.
bradidup 2 years ago 6
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The EU is getting creepy !
1. Why are Europol officers immune to prosecution for what they do AND SAY ?
2. Why has the EU equipped and trained thousands of Para-military if it does not intend to deploy the "European Gendarmerie Force" ?
3. Why is the European Arrest warrant being used for minor crimes when it was designed for terrorists ?
( Fair Trials International).
4.Why are European taxpayers paying for their liberties to be undermined ?
Google : No2Lisbon2
Spenner56 2 years ago
Watch us vote no again dude it aint gonna happen EU= Germany, France, Uk, Spain the rest are have no real say in real matters so why do i have to live under their laws?
MalvinMcpot 2 years ago 2
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Ireland should vote YES in october. It is whether the Nice treaty or the Lisbon one and the Lisbon treaty is better!
ForFederalEurope 2 years ago
There are no plans for a European army.
"Within the Eu itself,we will have to move closer to establishing a common European army" ( Angela Merkel ).
" The need to bolster Europe's military capabilities to match our aspirations is more urgent than ever " ( The EU's Javier Solana ).
" I am sure that in medium-term we will have a European army financed by the EU budget (i.e. us taxpayers). ( W.Schönfelder,German ambassador to the EU ).
Some people NEVER learn !
Spenner56 2 years ago
sensualism and lies are the only arguments of the no campaign.ireland has answered the no campaign already with a resounding defeat of all the major players in the no campaign last time. Irish voters realise that they had been lied to by libertas, by Coir and by idiots such as katy sinnot and patricia mckenna who have no grasp on reality.Its time to make the European project a REALITY.i will be proudly VOTING YES in october.
iarlais 2 years ago
Have you read this things? how did we answer 'the no campaign already with a resounding defeat of all the major players in the no campaign last time'??? we said NO! do u really want to be an anonymous person on the edge of Europe? all the propaganda about the only way to save our economy! well, it wil be if we say no cos Europe will ruin us. the government has lied2us, and the UKs government lied2them,and millions of votes have been ignored!so caled Assurances arent even in writing!
Pippitypopify 2 years ago
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Please vote NO to the Lisbon Constitution. It is not good enough to have a European Constitution that reads like a phone book and that only the Irish citizens get to vote on. Democracy is in the hands of the Irish people. Voting no to Lisbon will not change the economic situation for the better or the worse. This is a tactic being used by the Government and certain media with vested interests in a yes vote to distract from the actual content of the Treaty. Please do not be fooled, vote NO.
No1GorgeousLady 2 years ago
The Lisbon Treaty creates a secretive new Standing Committee for Internal Security, known as COSI : new proposals will create an EU ID card register, internet surveillance systems, satellite surveillance, automated exit-entry border systems operated by machines reading biometrics and risk profiling systems.
Source : Open Europe/The Guardian newspaper.
It's time to for us all to wake up...unless we want a BIG BROTHER EUROPE !
Liberties are taken not given.
Spenner56 2 years ago
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На Великден 1999 г. НАТО изстреля ракети с надпис "За вашия Великден!". Снимка: архив "Монитор" »
Волен Сидеров
Вестник "Монитор",
jjamesbondoviza 2 years ago
We should not to worry on issues like the loss of national ID, the history of our country or for our nation military power! there is no reason to worry! me as Greek with history 5000 years never worried about such matters! and I remind you we are European! all peoples of the world have been influenced by us! so examples must pass from us! We should show a strong person and this will succeed only as a united Europe!
specialparadise 2 years ago
Your culture never influenced IRELAND celts were knocking about when the greeks were buming their kids. fuck a united europe because i dont want smelly anal lovin greeks telling Irish people what to do.
MalvinMcpot 2 years ago
You are such a loser...i feel pity for you:/
specialparadise 2 years ago
Bum your little aprentice and stfu greek fool. i dont wont or need your smelly pity.
MalvinMcpot 2 years ago 2
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specialparadise 2 years ago
malvainmcpot.you are racist and very small minded hense your ignorance.your politics are confused (which i a polite way of saying you have none)you want to hate and hide behind a phony sense of nationalism which you probably picked up off so idiot in a bar or public toilet. your stupid and i feel sorry for you..genuine pity.Actually you are so thick i am sure you dont even vote!
iarlais 2 years ago
French fool go eat a snail you pompous muppet. "phony sense of nationalism" explain how its phony? "sorry for you..genuine pity" your French to cowardly to fight Nazi's to protect your freedoms. Pity me no more froggy. "Actually you are so thick i am sure you don't even vote!" I do and at least Ireland is democratic enough to vote on a European treaty.
MalvinMcpot 2 years ago
We deserve a better future in Europe! We need the union in Europe! A Europe that can pass decisions for our future united as far as economic issues, surrounding and climate change, energy, security, education, generally for the rights of all European citizens! We need a Europe that can be boss of the place! and not to accept advice from the US, must be shown how strong we are! enough to stick together!
specialparadise 2 years ago
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Last WARNING for Democracy !
Article 33,paragraph 6 of the Lisbon Treaty allows the 25 members of the EU executive the right (with only two exceptions) to change or declare null & void ALL rules/regulations/laws present in existing treaties relating to the ECONOMY ;TAX ;CIVIL SOCIETY ;environment etc.
« Sorry,this is a dictatorial constitution » (Prof. Schachttschneider, University of Erlangen-Nürnberg).
Only the much-bullied Irish people can stop this for all of us in Europe !
Spenner56 3 years ago
The brave Irish are the only hope left for European democrats.Hope they realise that under the (un-elected) European Court Of Justice ruling (case 274/99)it will be illegal to criticise the EU if the Lisbon Treaty gets passed. This will also automatically outlaw Independence parties and ANY political party that is not Pan-European.
IRELAND...don´t let democratic Europe down in 2009.PLEASE vote NO for us all.
Spenner56 3 years ago
Dont leave it all on our shoulders get out and protest you idiots!
MalvinMcpot 2 years ago
south koreans dont take shit neither do the irish
anthonyo4 3 years ago
Although I wish we voted yes.....
The EU must respect the peoples wishes.
27volt 3 years ago
We voted NO. Respect our vote.
capslockjam 3 years ago 3
An interesting thought from Maggot Wallstrom (EU Minister of Propaganda) Kemppinem head of the EU London enforcement offices 'WE did not lose one single referendum.' (This may suggest that the EC considers itself blameless re: Ireland) The other, a peach, reads: 'Yes is yes but no is unfortunate.' It was of course the ghastly Abba clone with her metronomic drone & ill kept roots who is supposedly responsible for communications! Well she failed to communicate in Ireland. Not even understanding NO
Greg260146 3 years ago
I fear civil war in the EU if the Elite doesnt not listen to the ordinary people EU was for trade never to be a super federal estate
vuffelch 3 years ago
CITIZEN RULE
Democracy is 'citizen rule' through the ballot box, so that those who make your laws are accountable to the people. You put them there, you can take them out. It is self correcting. But the problem in Europe now is that all laws are proposed by the Commission which is a 20,000 strong civil service headed by 27 Commissioners, none of whom has any democratic legitimacy and none of who have to face an electorate.
The Lisbon Treaty makes it too easy for the rulers of Europe.
JohninBasel 3 years ago 2
watch?v=-wr25t7I96M
EUXTV 3 years ago
me siento tan al margen. ¿Qué es esto Lisboa tratado?
1800kissmyassxoxo 3 years ago
i,m from ireland,and the reason we said no to this treaty is that it was,nt explained to us
in any great detail. in fact,i,d say the majority of our citizens new nothing of what its about.
i was in holland last weekend,and they were full of praise because we had stood up to the eurocrats.
the general feeling was enough is enough.
we get ripped off every where! fuel,food everything has gone through the roof.
we are a democracy.please respect our judgement.
rbirrell 3 years ago
Thank you Ireland. Europe wouldn't succeed without you
VikingInvaders 3 years ago
I recently carried out a survey on just under 1,000 Irish 18-24 year olds who were very politically vocal about the Treaty, both for and against. They were asked several questions and in the final analysis it was clear to see that 68% did not actually know a single term in the treaty and 87% of them displayed a profound lack of knowledge of the implications of the Treaty. For the question asking: "Do you plan to vote?" the result was 100%. Sad.
nallyterrace 3 years ago
Hello. was this survey carried out before or after the referendum?
roryphelan 3 years ago
The survey was carried out 3 weeks ago over the course of 4 days. We also carried out a separate survey in the North where there were also very strong opinons but again a complete lack of knowledge. One of the questions asked if the candidate felt that the LT would affect Ireland's neutrality; 48% said yes. They were then asked to say why they felt this way. Only a handful of candidates gave a coherent and resonable answer. The others gave one or two sentence answers which were highly misguided.
nallyterrace 3 years ago
I see. Anything else interesting?
was the survey done through the E.S.R.I.?
roryphelan 3 years ago
Well I was working with a group of students in Newry who are giving a presentation about the Treaty and the perceptions of it among the younger electorate. The main point of interest emerging from our survey was that most of the "NO" supporters saw the Treaty as an attack on Irish sovereignty; but when asked why they gave vague and uninformed answers. The referendum, from what I can see, was a farce. I am quite neutral on the Treaty but believe that the Irish people didn't get a fair deal.
nallyterrace 3 years ago
well, in the UK we never hear about europe, we never hear about whats in the treaty and what it will mean to us. The news never reports it! So if Irland have a simular lack of infomation, its no surprise they voted no, and then gave vague answers when asked why.
geoffart 3 years ago
Indeed, but 'lack of explanation' was not given as a reason for voting NO. The people asked made wild claims about Europe and, especially in the question about Irish neutrality, they were completely misguided. If they had said something like "We don't like the Treaty because we aren't quite sure yet how it will affect us" then that would have been fair enough. But they didn't.
nallyterrace 3 years ago
sure, but where there is a lack of information, there has always been rumour to fill the gaps (just human nature). This rumour may take the form of wild claims, as you say. In which casse, I say, its still the fault of a failure to supply people with information on the treaty.
Either its been mismanaged, or there is something very sinister going on, and we are being cheated. Either way, we shouldn't be signing anything until everyone knows what's being signed, as its very important.
geoffart 3 years ago 3
nallyterrace now that you see how democracy works in the EU would you trust them with a yes vote, think of it
vuffelch 3 years ago
nallyterrace you should have carried a survey on the yes voters too sand why they voted yes , they havent got a fecking clue either
vuffelch 3 years ago
We did. They were given an equal representation. The survey was not to determine who was going to vote yes or no, it was to see just how informed our young people are about an issue of this magnitude in which they would take an active role in the passing or rejecting of the Treaty. Yes voters received equal representation. I am quite neutral on the Treaty myself but I do believe, if it were practical (which it may not be), that another referendum should be held with a better understanding.
nallyterrace 3 years ago
DId you find out that in my personal survey, meaning people I know, yes voters were doing it because they thought that by voting no they would be supporting Sinn Fein? . there you are
vuffelch 3 years ago
Actually only a handful of candidates (in fact it was less than 1%,in other words, less than 10 people) even mentioned a political party. The young people who we asked were all very vocal and opinionated about the Treaty which we believed was a suggestion that they knew a lot about it. They didn't.
nallyterrace 3 years ago
Well done to Ireland voting against Lisbon Treaty, Do not sign all you rights and laws to the eurocrats.
donegal2 3 years ago
i just cant understand why they voted no... i mean this treaty was quite good, at least the social part :(. imo all da countries which voted yes should be granted this. there were 26 countries which voted yes. its unfair to them for just 1 vote against :S
maltamonument 3 years ago
Wrong Malta. The other countries in the EU decided to try an force the Treaty(constitution) through without the say of the people, that's not democracy in action. Thats a dictatorship in action..We have done Europe a democratic favour.. It's not as if the people havn't said no before ie; the Nice treaty which Ireland originally said no to as well as another two or three Eu countries as well?? Europe will bully and they just don't understand No,,No..
kingofcelts 3 years ago
a simple question..how many of those NO sayers read that threaty?
i think euro-american democracy is neocon crap...coz rednecks are 70% or more of all population..all they need some stupid propaganda with nacked asses ..and free whiskey
so long all those idiots can vote..nothing good will happen
Bronwaterzzz 3 years ago
In other words, people aren't smart enough to decide how they should live, we need unelected elites to lord over us.....
you should change your name to Brown-noser
ShiekYerbooty 3 years ago
A BHUÍ LE ÉIRINN!!!
Thank you Ireland!!!
Thank you for preserving the souvereignity!
From Hungary
uralas1 3 years ago
say big fat NO to irish products
say big fat NO for investitions in ireland
SAY BIG FAT NO to those USA slaves
Bush is happy with irish muppets now
Bronwaterzzz 3 years ago
Bush is a globalist einstein, he is trying to start a North American Union over here, he's already signed the S.P.P., he's just as big a traitor as your politicians
ShiekYerbooty 3 years ago
Theyre all in it together. So we do what we can to stop them. The No vote wont be enough though. They will make the treaty go through somehow. But when they do, they also show the people that democracy is dead. So, its a win, win for us.
Tyllestein 3 years ago
@Tyllestein: BTW, with the Treaty of Lisbon, there would be MORE democrazy in Europe!
For example with 1 Million signs you can force the commission to make a new or better law.
Fensterbank87 3 years ago
there would be MORE democracy in europe, for the leaders, but LESS democracy in sweden, for the people. the people barely have anything to say now as it is.
I dont think you see the whole picture.
the army is about to monitor our tele traffic without our approval. but I dont have time for this. So leave me alone now please.
Tyllestein 3 years ago
False. One million signs would get the commission to put under examination an issue brought up through petitioning. They could determine if they want to spend one hour, one day or ten days on it and this is absolutely no guarantee of a new law.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
Big fat No from me too! It felt good lol
Proud to be Irish today. Hopefully, this will encourage more Irish people to take an interest in how their lives are being run. We still have a voice!
gomey70 3 years ago
I was glad to vote no to this treaty.
cathal100 3 years ago 2
up ireland
missbalto 3 years ago
BIG FAT NO from Germany!
Es ist ein Skandal, dass diese Verfassung nicht demokratisch durch europaweite Referenden ratifiziert wird. Auf diesem Dokument baut die Demokratie auf, also braucht es auch die demokratische Legitimation!!!
waldwaldi 3 years ago
@waldwaldi: Dann informiere dich doch mal genauer.
Der Vertrag würde mehr Demokratie und weniger Bürokratie bringen. Nur viele Interessieren sich gar nicht dafür, haben keine Ahnung oder sind aus Prinzip dagegen. Denn alles was aus dem fernen Brüssel kommt ist Böse.
So ein Schwachsinn.
YES from Germany, let us create a EU-Superpower.
Fensterbank87 3 years ago
Ich kritisiere ja nicht den Vertrag an sich; selbstverständlich würde der Vertrag vieles verbessern. Mir geht es um die undemokratische Art und Weise, wie dieser Vertrag ratifiziert wurde. Bei so wichtigen Entscheidungen möchte ich auch eine Stimme haben!!
waldwaldi 3 years ago
Ja, verstehe.
Aber mal ganz ehrlich, das Problem is einfach, dass soviele Leute sich überhaupt nicht dafür interessieren, nicht mal wissen was der Vertrag sein soll, und dann halt mal mit NO voten, nur weil sie die EU in irgendeiner Weise kritisieren wollen. Solche Dinge sind zu komplex, dass jeder mitwählt, weil es einfach zuviele Idioten gibt, die überhaupt keine Ahnung haben. Mit dem jetzigen Vertrag von Nizza kann eine so große EU wie heute einfach nicht weiterarbeiten.
Fensterbank87 3 years ago
Wir haben uns als Gesellschaft für die Staatsform der Demokratie entschieden;und damit auch für die Tatsache,dass jede Entscheidung durch die Mehrheit der Bevölkerung getragen werden muss.Meiner Meinung nach ist es genau das,was die Demokratie so interessant und wertvoll macht:Jedem Menschen wird eine unglaubliche Verantwortung zugesprochen;und zugetraut!Dieses Zutrauen wird jedoch sofort zunichte gemacht,wenn man die "Idioten" aus den Entscheidungsprozessen ausschliest. Das ist reaktionär!oder?
waldwaldi 3 years ago
Wir haben uns als Gesellschaft für die Staatsform der Demokratie entschieden;und damit auch für die Tatsache,dass jede Entscheidung durch die Mehrheit der Bevölkerung getragen werden muss.Meiner Meinung nach ist es genau das,was die Demokratie so interessant und wertvoll macht:Jedem Menschen wird eine unglaubliche Verantwortung zugesprochen;und zugetraut!Dieses Zutrauen wird jedoch sofort zunichte gemacht,wenn man die "Idioten" aus den Entscheidungsprozessen ausschliest. Das ist reaktionär!oder?
waldwaldi 3 years ago
waldwaldi
free votes arent for germans..the world will not alow you to vote for second Hitler in next 200 years
Hitler was democratically elected by your ppl
one time is enough
ich scheiß drauf wie du deine Demokratie verstehst
Bronwaterzzz 3 years ago
@Bronwaterzzz: Lol, i'm with your opinion, the Treaty of Lisbon would also bring more democrazy to Europe, but Hitler has nothing to search in this text.
Was solln dieses schwachsinnige Hitlergeschwätz schon wieder? o_O
Das is doch nur n 0815-Argument, wenn einem nix mehr einfällt....
Fensterbank87 3 years ago
we have a big monument for the red solides in Budapest too. I don ' t undestan why.
szimro 3 years ago
Gordon Brown - were is the UK vote that you promised?
ak001j6517 3 years ago 2
Ireland. You have done great. Ireland has declined the treaty with a 54% vote no.
LettegusZR1 3 years ago 3
No that's very bad. Let us divide the EU. It can't be real that 4 million people decide, how 490 million people will live in the future.
The European integration must go on. Thats not possible with the Treaty of Nizza.
Fensterbank87 3 years ago
we dont want it in the uk either up the irish hail hail
scharnhorst1936 3 years ago
@scharnhorst1936: The UK wants nothing, but thats normal. Of course you are the 51. State of the USA.
I think we need the EU of two speedlevels. Best example: The Schengen ... I can drive for example from Spain to Lithuana without needing a pass. Ireland and UK can't, because they - of course - didn't joined the Schengen-Treaty. :P
Fensterbank87 3 years ago
it can't be possible that only 4 million people had the opportunity to decide. i voted yes but the whole point of democracy is what the majority of the people want and the rest of europe wasn't given the chance to vote.
a05bf5ff 3 years ago
You prefer having a cabal of MEPs deciding Europes future instead. If other countrys were allowed a vote a fair percentage of them would vote no, France, Britain, Holland etc. The Irish did the correct thing and killed this undemocratic mess. The people of Europe want a social union of equal countries, not a European superstate.
seanquinnu 3 years ago
Yes, some people wants a social union of equal countries, othe people wants a European Superstate, me too.
But in the 21th century, with a growing China and Russia and still a big USA, small nations like Ireland, Belgium, France, Germany can't decide things in the World. For getting a voice in world politics, we need an European Superstate.
Fensterbank87 3 years ago
Well that wont happen democratically. Most People in Europe want to keep their national identity and to make decisions for themselves. Every time this treaty goes to the people of Europe it is rejected because its a bridge too far for most Europeans. If a European superstate ever comes into existence it will be by undemocratic means, without the mandae of the people.
seanquinnu 3 years ago
Ireland voted noo!!
anonymousOrBust 3 years ago
Looks like a resounding NO to Lisbon...excellent....let the party begin!
CairoGang 3 years ago
Thank you Ireland !!! You was our last hope.
szimro 3 years ago
Europeans should just say no to everything and go back to the good old days of hate, wars and misery.
ntt688 3 years ago
but a solution of unified control and tyranny is a not a solution...the only soulution should ever be is freedom, not one that disolves other countries freedoms with less freedom.
panterastang 3 years ago
UP THE REPUBLIC
beggo321 3 years ago
No vote is winning!!We have it!
ray9191 3 years ago 2
im irish and proud that i voted no.
franko656 3 years ago 2
I am proud of you too, and very gratefull there's at 54% of Irish voters who are smart enough to see through the elites propoganda
Thank you....
ShiekYerbooty 3 years ago
of course... every american is happy when he sees euro pussies fighting each other... your countries are shit... you are losers and cannot even agree on a way to integrate... I'd kick Germany, UK, France and Italy from the g8? Do you realize that these countries are going to count shit in 30-40 years? Let's create a g5: USA, China, India, Russia, Brazil. There's no room for europussies. if you start bombing each other again we're not coming again, we'll let you die on that fucked up continent.
CaesarAugustus1987 3 years ago
Says the chap named after a Roman emperor?
Pollocks69 3 years ago
I am not happy to see people fight, I am happy when I see common people unite to fight elitist rule as they did in Ireland. Our politicans are owned by the same central bankers that own yours.
ShiekYerbooty 3 years ago
Irish voted against a bad model of unification of Europe.
their decision is completely right.
I am sure other peoples would have voted similarly if they only had had the chance.
rambo753 3 years ago 2
well done Irish !!!
thank you very much
rambo753 3 years ago 2
I have one question to all Irish people: do you hate your country? Really, do you hate your country?
Only 40 percent of the Irish people went to the polling boxes ... 40 % of your people are interested in your country's future.
So 60 % of the Irish people doesn't care at all whether Ireland shall remain independent or not.
I always thought the German people became unpatriotic after WWII but the Irish people seems to hate their country even more. Only 40 % ...
SamHawkens 3 years ago
Well it is summer so about 70% is the best we could have hoped for with people on holidays and the like but you're right 40% is pretty bad, though a lot of constituencies reached 50 so it might be higher
Gazelligator 3 years ago
Right... because this was a treaty about whether we want to be independent, rather than a confusing, and technical treaty on systems within the EU. /blatant sarcasm
I think the turnout was so low because of the confusion and lies on both sides. People tend to be more apathetic and less keen to actually support a side when the issues are blurred and distorted. If there was a 'maybe' option, we might have had a higher turnout.
iamelegy 3 years ago
Many people are abstaining as the yes campaigners are unconvincing and the no campaign is horribly inaccurate (there's posters saying babies could be micro-chipped). The result looks like it's going to be a no but not because of the no campaign, one of the main reasons people have voted no is because the rest of europe doesn't get to vote... why aren't you fighting for that right instead of questioning out patriotism???
pauljjmoran 3 years ago
To your last question, pauljjmoran: Because the German people was turned into a bunch of horrible idiots hating their own country after WWII. No one really asks whether our "perfect democracy" is as perfect as described since the Federal Republic is so beautiful and great and much better than everything we had in 1,000 years before.
Therefore, a lot of us WANT an European state so that they don't have to be Germans anymore.
But I'm shocked that other people seem to hate their country too.
SamHawkens 3 years ago
Is this true?
I could understand the German people hating the Nazis, but themselves?
Mrvort 3 years ago
O, you don't know Germany, Mrvort. In the German Parliament, we have a party a member of which collected national flags during the football world cup in 2006 for one reason: to burn them.
We call our soldiers murderers (even the soldiers of WWI), we are not willing to honour them, we refuse to sing the first verse of the "Song of the Germans" (national anthem) since it's said to be unacceptably nationalistic and so on.
To use bad language: The Allies have cut our balls of.
SamHawkens 3 years ago
I seriously didn't know this. I have friends who are German(as in, live in Germany) too.
Of all the people in the world, don't they realize that not all their soldiers in WWII were Nazis? And they don't honor the ones from World War I either?
I mean, it wasn't the soldiers that started the war, they were simply fighting in it. You can at least respect their sacrifice.
Mrvort 3 years ago
I mustn't forget:
1) We have a very big memorial in Berlin for soldiers of the Red Army but I can't remember to have one for German soldiers.
We even have a memorial for deserters! Do you have a memorial for deserters in Dublin?
Do you honour men who betrayed their country? We do have such memorials!
2) The far left-wings have nice slogans, such as "Never again Germany", "Germany, die!" or "Bomger Harris, do it again!" (Harris was the Captain responsible for the bombing of Dresden.)
SamHawkens 3 years ago
(It's "Bomber Harris", of course.)
3) Furthermore, I've never heard in my entire life someone singing patriotic songs whether it be politicians or other people. Since world cup 2006 the (3rd verse of the) national anthem isn't that unpopular anymore, but no other songs.
4) As you have Gaelic script, we have a German script which nobody uses anymore since it's considered to be national socialistic even though it was Hitler who abolished German script in 1941.
Everything German is evil...
SamHawkens 3 years ago
I don't know any Irish people that hate Ireland, in fact i don't know any that don't love it. I myself don't think i could be more proud of Ireland. The turnout was actually about 50% of people over 18, that would be about and the figure would be about 70% for a general election. Just because you don't vote doesn't mean you hate your country, for the most part people don't vote because they don't know who/what to vote for.
PS: i know a few germans and they seem to be proud of their country.
pauljjmoran 3 years ago
52% ... get it right. Bigger turn out at the polls from NICE 1 and 2. Ireland have spoken for the rest of the other EU citizens who were unable to vote.
solarpitch 3 years ago
yeah but it was a thursday so we were all pretty drunk.
a05bf5ff 3 years ago 2
You really are stupid.... 40% of the population is a high turnout, since our population demographic does include the people of other nationalities such as the Polish who aren't allowed to vote and anyone under the age of 18... you are actually fucking stupid
SlashyBhoy 3 years ago
O, now you caught me. I'm "actually fucking stupid" as you say it in best Shakespeare English. You, Sir, are truly a bright and smart man with a premium quality language.
O, I forgot something: 40 % (or now 52 %) are counted of the population which is allowed to vote and not of all people living in Ireland.
So, we should think again about the fact who is the "fucking stupid" guy Sir.
SamHawkens 3 years ago
"Shakespeare English", look I know you are a fucking tool but seriously, how dumb are you? Go read a a play by the good man and you will indeed see what "Shakespeare English" is... I doubt that even you as backwards are you are use words like "jahwol". L2HISTORY
SlashyBhoy 3 years ago
And you seem to be the missing link between monkey and man. Now the last riddle of Darwin's theory is finally solved. Thanks to you.
However, your very low intellect does not change the fact that 52 % means 52 % of the Irish citizens who are eligible to vote. Understood? I hope so.
SamHawkens 3 years ago
However, to make it clear: When I was talking about Shakespeare English, I meant that you are the opposite of someone who speaks polite English.
You are an offensive person who is not able to TALK or to express his opinion in a propper way.
How would you say: you stupid bastard. Wouldn't you?
SamHawkens 3 years ago
Irish realise and vote NO
floater227 3 years ago
When will we know the results of the votes?
EUBulgaria 3 years ago
VOTE NO!!!!
jassi4010709 3 years ago
Irish !!! please vote NO ! Save your sovereingty, save yourselves. Please don't allow yourselves to become Lord Rothschild's wage slaves
ShiekYerbooty 3 years ago 3
Subliminal words aside we the Irish people know when we are being subjected to stupid propaganda. Hard Luck. It's a NO. Touch on xxxx
Warrenz79 3 years ago 2
fuck you. its a yes
anusfeatures 3 years ago
Vote NO...unless the vote will be tampered with or they will go ahead with the treaty anyways. Votes are becoming victims of corruption. Anyways, vote NO. NO MEANS NO...just as it did in 2005. Those EU people don't seem to understand that. It's obvious they have selfish plans and ideas going on. they are such children.
lookscudkill 3 years ago 2
"The leading party, Feanna Fale" :D
billybarryboy 3 years ago
RadekEU,why so negative, you are acting as if we have already rejected the treaty, Yes vote is ahead in the polls you know. Ill be voting yes because I have done research but Im just gonna say with your atitute your making me change my mind referring to stupid lazy people that only watch commercials??
adriandecleir 3 years ago
you lying bastard, if you had done any research whatsoever there's no way in hell you would vote yes
ShiekYerbooty 3 years ago
if you had done any proper research whatsoever yourself there's no way in hell you would vote no
adriandecleir 3 years ago
I see, so you are all in favor of completing Hitler's plan for Europe, only now you're doing it for Lord Rothschild and his puppets. Enjoy being liberty-less wage slaves
ShiekYerbooty 3 years ago 5
Gotta love 'Godwin's Law', it's depressing true.
iamelegy 3 years ago
what's even more depressing is that's it's completely applicable in this case. If Godwin had known that Hitler was Rothschild's illegitimate son( his mother was their chambermaid ), then he could see why most of the world's evils are " hitleresque "
ShiekYerbooty 3 years ago
adrian, so you want to be a wage slave to Rothschild and complete Hitler's plan for Ireland. Its obvious you have NOT done your "proper" research if you want to vote yes. You must not like freedom, do you? Fan of Hitler, eh? Stand up for TRUTH and FREEDOM for once in your life and vote NO.
truthseeker1210 3 years ago
Not to mentioned the Lisbon treaty is not what they claim, it is a revamped EU constitution that permanent members voted out before. Trying to elude the rights and votes of the people by ignoring their decisions is going too far, once again. It is a pro-elitist, pro imperialist (by the fact it wants there to be a EU president, not much different from the position of Emperor if you ask me.) and strips the people of their power, once again, putting the decision making-back onto money maker tables.
JamesHerald111 3 years ago
"by the fact it wants there to be a EU president, not much different from the position of Emperor if you ask me."
- lol, typical commercial answer.
- in fact its not president of EU, but President of Consilium, voted by your representatives. Emperor? lol he has no real powers, he is same powerful as presidents in parliamentary republics, lol.(for stupid people presidents in parliam. republics has almost no powers.)
RadekEU 3 years ago
RadekEU, have you read your countries constitution? Your comparing it to that
adriandecleir 3 years ago
The worst is that irish didn´t even read the treaty. I just saw a clip on simple irish fisherman who didnt read it and will vote no...why? Because he believes the commercials, its like american presidentials - who has more money to lobby wins. Just Sad.
RadekEU 3 years ago
It was taken for granted by our government that we would vote yes, so a shambles was made of explaining and promoting the treaty. As a result of this it gave alot of anti government no campaigners a chance to make up lies and exaggerations about what is in the treaty. Both the yes and no campaigns have been quite dishonest and they now believe it is safer to vote no instead of "signing a contract they dont understand". The good thing is these people arent as motivated to vote as the yes voters.
adriandecleir 3 years ago
Have you tried reading the Lisbon treaty?Very well respected figures in Irish society have said it is one of the most incomprehensible things they have ever read.
So how do you expect a fisherman to understand it when the Taoiseach (Prime minister)Brian Cowen has admitted he hasn't even read the thing in full himself.
TheTwistedCarrotxD 3 years ago 3
"Have you tried reading the Lisbon treaty?"
- and you? There is user friendly version btw...very simple to read. You didnt know? Sure you didnt...you read only commercials.
RadekEU 3 years ago
A user friendly version?You mean that leaflet they handed around to peoples houses?I wouldn't exactly call that "user friendly".Even after the government set up a neutral committee too explain the treaty the majority of citizens still did not understand it.They haven't done much to explain it from what I can see.
TheTwistedCarrotxD 3 years ago 2
"A user friendly version?You mean that leaflet they handed around to peoples houses"
- not at all. I ll send it to you.
In the first place one has to know how EU works, then it is simple to understand the treaty.
RadekEU 3 years ago
But who honestly has the time to spend looking at every single detail on how the EU works?Most people don't,so how do you expect them to learn how the EU works in detail and then read the Lisbon treaty which is a few hundred pages long?
TheTwistedCarrotxD 3 years ago
"But who honestly has the time to spend looking at every single detail on how the EU works?Most people don't,so how do you expect them to learn how the EU works in detail and then read the Lisbon treaty which is a few hundred pages long?"
- that´s why we have a directly voted parliaments to read and decide, if your MEP´s didnt read the treaty, they are simply way stupid or lazy. In that case you should start voting someone else in next polls.
RadekEU 3 years ago
Either way, if Lisbon pass you will have to learn how EU works, since EU parliament will be important in decision making and is directly voted. You will have to get used to the fact you need to start watching what is going on in Europe.
RadekEU 3 years ago
You twit....you fell for Elitist propoganda
Of course they show you some poor fisherman who didn't read the treaty, when they could have just as easily showed you a NO voter who knew all about it
They were trying to make the NO voters look like simpletons, so twits like you could feel intellectually superior by voting yes
ShiekYerbooty 3 years ago
RadeEU, No is NO the reason democracy, how many people when they vote do it for the right reasons that goes to the yes vote too.
get a life demand democracy this is what you should do ,is not such a thing as an excuse for the Elite to ignore the Irish vote.we call their bluff
vuffelch 3 years ago