So while a believer freely acknowledges the role that the brain plays in experiencing God, the speaker's confinement of these experiences to internal cognitive or subconcious processes, cannot explain the experience of knowledge or even fore knowledge of things outside of his body, mind or persona.
To sum up then - an interesting video indeed, but not one which severs any validity to experiencing God.
@faithbyloving Nor was it meant to. My point here is that while "experiences" of "god" can reasonably be explained as an event of the brain, convincing someone personally that their own "experience" wasn't genuine is next to impossible.
@brettppalmer Quite! Convincing someone that they didn't experience God is highly unlikely to succeed when it involves knowledge or events outside of themselves, which they wouldn't ordinarily know. I think we are in agreement here. It would be similar to trying to convince you that I haven't sent you a message on youtube, when you know that I have.
@faithbyloving No. Because you can show me the message as well as show the message to independent parties. If I still refuse to believe you sent me a message you'd need to explore the reason for that denial. It is completely different with respect to people who believe they've received a message from "god."
@brettppalmer So while the subject of your videos concerns subjective experiences of emotions or ideas etc, it ends there, since it offers no explanation to the experience of receiving information that one could not possibly know from an external source. Therefore, the video concentrates on subjective experience that is limited to the brain, it does not account for experiences in which there is clearly something very much more going on.
Perhaps the most astonishing of these are represented by the writings of the Prophets in the Bible, whose prophecies not only predicted the dispersion of Israel, but its return 2000 yrs later and not content with that, further prophecies which indicate its opposition by a confederation of muslim nations (currently in the process of forming, if today's political assessment is carefully observed!
@faithbyloving Yes, while I don't treat the "prophecies" of the Bible in this video, I mention this ("Scripture") as one of the pillars of belief. Your interpretation of Scripture as having prophetic power is not persuasive or indicative of "information that one could not possibly know from an external source." I will be dealing with so-called biblical "prophecy" in a future production.
@faithbyloving I will simply do what I always do: Explain the Bible in its own contexts, and not in the ones believers wish to impose upon it. It's not very difficult at all.
@brettppalmer You will find the context of these prophecies does not fit any biblical times, if you read the scriptures properly and the context is unmistakable, even by you.
@faithbyloving "Even by you..." Nice. And your assumption that I'm not all ready familiar with these so-called "prophecies" and their native biblical contexts tells me you're about as open to anything I might have to say on the subject as a bull's ass during fly season. Have a nice day.
@faithbyloving I would suggest that you RE-READ that prophecy regarding the return of Israel. CultofDusty did a funny bit about it, however, it was true with regard to what the scriptures actually depict. /watch?v=F6LAKleHUr8
Whilst I have no doubt that many experiences are internally generated, (as in irrational dreams etc), it may not be the case that all experiences are internally generated. They present this with no references to experiences which indicate external factors may be involved, such as information experienced which the person experiencing it, could not reasonably know.
I don't know about god, but I do know that the monster in my closet is real. He/she/it has been following me since I was little. I suspect that it hasn't eaten me yet, because I was too small to be much of a meal as a kid (60lbs at 13). So he waited. I suspect now that he is now waiting for me to hit old age, as I would probably give too much of a fight. He is still there, I know it, I feel it, and as soon as I complete my monster in the closet detecto-matic, I will prove it to the world.
I experience the flaw of the 'God' feeling in my life first hand and also later and seeing how pointless it is as a bases for proof. Perhaps many achieved a sense of hope they were missing in their your life and need a crutch like the bible to give them... But I would also say the feelings are even stronger now, perhaps a hypothetical force moves those who question it just as those who follow a book, actually even more so as they do not limit themselves to it. Its like being saved everyday.
Felt an awakening feeling in church and when I experienced a miracle(or so I thought.) I was saved and 'felt' it again. Same awakening occurred during drug use(LOL thought I was so smart, then re-watched video of myself to realize how just how dumb)...awakening feeling again in sheer amazement of mathematics, science and the wondrous technologies. I also felt awakened in understanding that we can and should question idea of 'God'. Same feeling of saved in both acceptance and rejection of God.
i watched greek and scandanavian myth shows last night. you can see where the story is fantastic and mythical with dragons and giants. but they point to a truth about the human condition which is where i can see the bible stories come from. helped put things in some perspective. i don't care if ppl believe god just don't say he commanded this so "you" hafta obey. no ones got the only truth on god. didnt jesus have something to say about being humble?
Great video. I've long wondered how theists can relay on their feelings, while acknowledging that people of other faiths claim to know their god exists through feelings as well. They dismiss those feelings out of hand but swear by their own. How can one differentiate between feelings? To have a scientific explanation for those feelings, is a great step forward.
Added to favourites immediately, thanks - this rings so true for a number of conversations I've had with believers in recent years.
When "I feel it" is the only refuge/reason left after all other arguments have disintegrated, it's time to let the person sit with his/her own contemplations on the matter.
I do wish that Atheists would stop using "Theist" as a synonym for "Monotheist," or even "Christian." There are lots of other kinds of theists out there. The scientists in this video don't make this mistake, but the poster does. It's a nice flipside to Evangelicals using "Believer" to mean "Evangelical Christian."
@Naiant Ok...fair enough; what word would you suggest that covers those who believe in a god, or gods, and who claim to "feel" it/she/he/their presence?
@brettppalmer "Theist" fits that already. It just isn't synonymous with "monotheist" or "Christian." As a polytheist, I sometimes feel left out when atheists criticicize theists. After all, wse can be crazy too.
@Naiant :) I was gonna say, polytheists just get to feel more gods! Which might not necessarily be a bad thing. I hear Persephone was quite a looker! ;)
@brettppalmer as you read this, I tell you, the same way you're all out for the devil, you'll be all out for God five times more intense. For every one person you've helped to lead to the devil, 1000 more will be led to God. All strongholds dissolve! A lies, submit to TRUTH!
@brettppalmer Or a troll. Mind you I do love the whole "You don't believe in God? You must worship the devil!" thing the real lunatics do :) Note to any of you guys reading this - we don't believe in the devil either ;)
@MrHedgehog380 a believer's answer to "You don't believe in God? You must worship the devil!" would be "that's what the devil wants you to think" it makes me chuckle. ehem my answer "that what the church(any one) wants you to think" but they will never accept that the 'good guys' at the real tricksters. the carrot and the whip at the same time.. very clever
@Trelli28 as you read this, I tell you, the same way you're all out for evil leprechauns, you'll be all out for the Holy Unicorn five times more intense. For every one person you've helped to lead to the evil leprechauns , 1000 more will be led to the Holy Unicorn. All strongholds dissolve! A lies, submit to TRUTH!
All our experiences are really just in the brain. Every rational thought. Every article of faith. Every sense we use to touch, smell, see, hear, taste, and feel the world around us. Every delusion and moment of clarity. Our perception of reality. It all is just an interpretation of the brain. It begs the question, then, what is really real? Can we trust our senses? Our logic? For this reason I am agnostic. I have no reason to believe in God, but I don't dismiss the possibility either. Good video
A person that believes without analysis and thoughts, who acts without consistency, and who acts without virtue, is indeed someone that doesn't truly believe.
Great Video. You express yourself clearly and concisely. Appreciated. I disagree, but that is fine.
Some arguments aren't convincing to others, while others are more than sufficient. Just because one doesn't agree or accept an argument doesn't qualify the reason or rationale for another's acceptance.
Excellent video, and I would say "feeling God" is the number one roadblock for many theists. And it amazes me how many theists think our inner dialog is actually external. The cartoon of God sitting on one shoulder, and the devil on the other arguing as to whether you should or shouldn't take a certain action is, to many of them, a real depiction of what they think is happening when they are experiencing that inner dialogue.
that's why i love science and evolution so much. when you actually take the time to think, and research a topic you realize how primitive our beliefs and reasons for beliefs and actions are. dont like the dark, because predators lurked in the dark. fear of heights, falling out of trees, enjoys climbing trees as a child, cuz we used to live in trees. science, it works.
This was very interesting. The 'corpus colossum' bit made perfect sense to me -- so THAT's why a lot of religions have confirmation rites at that approximate age! I learned something there. Also, the point about why do western cultures isolate their infants from the mother in a dark room at an early age -- again it made perfect sense to me (I immediately thought about 'Family Guy's' Chris Griffin character & his evil monkey delusion lol). Thanks Brett, very thought provoking indeed!
@brettppalmer listen fella, calm yourself and stop pretending to be an expert on something you are completely clueless about. You cannot dictate to people what they experience based on whatever nonsense 'data' you've gathered.
@Trelli28 i don't see how he's "clueless" about it. Sure, he definitely doesn't have all the details, but his video is based on fact and research from legitimate experts on the subject. There are always two sides to the argument, and you shouldn't just rule out the other side because you simply disagree with it. :/
@IggyTkO "we who"? don't piggy back off other people's so-called "discoveries". When you find out that those discoveries were outright lies and deceptions, what will you do then? Especially when it can cost you so much...?
@Trelli28 I think he has such an interest in it because he was raised in a very Christian household (as was I), but then he noticed inconsistencies, so he developed an interest in the subject. Because of this, I think he wants to tell other people his opinions and why he doesn't believe in God. As for me, I believe what makes more sense. The whole notion of a Godlike entity just doesn't seem logical to me. And how do you know that those scientific observations are 'outright lies and deceptions'?
@Trelli28 Beg pardon? Did someone piss in your corn flakes this morning, pal? Name anywhere in my vid I tried to pass myself off as an expert. Name at which minute/second point I dictated *anything*. This vid merely meant to point out that while many "proofs" theists use to buttress their belief in God can be answered by skeptics, the personal "feelings" of God --even scientifically explained--can often be an impenetrable barrier to rational discussion. You'd know that if you'd watched it.
@Trelli28 But I'll be willing to bet you have no hesitation in using the computer, or your cell phone or turning on the light switch. Be nice if you were self aware enough to see your own delusions, but scant chance of that.
@brettppalmer instead of seeking to disprove Christianity, why don't you challenge yourself; drop all your defenses and try seeing from Christianity's perspective. For a month, all your reactions you've developed, drop them and read people like curry blake and todd white. (you're protecting yourself from something you associate with Christianity, for self-validation; otherwise why such a keen interest into something you don't believe. Truth is, you believe but is afraid)
@Trelli28 You really are a confused little fellow, aren't you? You try to chastise me for "dictating" to others and for "pretending to be an expert," and then you go off assuming I've never been religious and have never been faithful and then lay out some sort of nonsense plan you think will convert me. Do you realize how much of a buffoon you're making yourself into? Do *yourself* a favor and watch all my vids (there are 105 of them); then get back to me.
@brettppalmer When did I tell you to be religious? Nor did I offer to 'convert you'. You're overloaded with assumptions. You're first was to assume I'm a fellow. I wasn't about to respond to you, except to tell that dancin stan to research Robert Gilmour LeTourneau.
True Christianity is not a religion. It's a relationship. Find out what that means...
@Trelli28 What, because a deluded inventor is a "believer" should mean something or have some intellectual weight? He made a lot of money and founded a "christian" university, good for him. Doesn't prove him right or validate his fantasies, or yours I might add.
@Dancinstan1 deluded to have dropped out of school at age 14, never even completed high school yet engineered large earth moving machines that you with all your intellect cannot. He prayed and saw visions of how to create them, as have other inventors you failed to acknowledge when u spoke of the computer, phone etc. Wisdom comes from God whether you know it or not.
@Trelli28 And one should believe that because you said so? As your later comments reveal, you revert to bullying and threats when your favorite imaginary friend aren't accepted. So much for the "loving god" concept,eh? Van Gogh was a great artist, but he was still mentally ill, the two often go together.
Personal experience can lead to tragic consequences, personal experience can mislead, just look at optical and aural illusions. So why should we place trust in personal experiences when there are no other means to back them up?
Excellent as always! I just want to point out that like other youtube atheists, you seem to equate theists with Christians. Jews for instance, seldom if ever claim to feel god.
@kilroy1964 I try not to pick on just the Christian faith in God so I use the broader term. I also realize there are Christians who also never claim to "feel" God in the sense I use in this video. But, so that I don't come across as singling out one group of theists, I just use the generic term.
Oh, I accept the fact that these people do sincerely believe what they do believe, I just don't understand why anyone who is rational would. Perhaps the keyword here is rational.
As a former Mormon, I get how hard it is to talk to my family and friends about their feelings that god answers their prayers. Mormons are some of the worst at this.
@MrShysterme what's unhealthy, is ignoring our irrationality.
people believe, because they want to believe. that is the bottom line of it all. When you dig down to it, there is no good reason to do ANYTHING, and yet, we do. why? because of irrationality, nothing unhealthy about it.
why do you go to school? why study? why live? I do it, because I find comfort doing it, and I enjoy it. THAT is irrational, there is no real "point" to it, but still we all do it.
@eyallev You're mixing mental and physical activities here.We start with a certain set of mental drives and then work to accomplish them.The surest way to achieve what you would like in reality is to have your beliefs line up as closely as possible with reality.Therefore, the human mind usually will value truth because accurate information is our must important resource.As a result,most of us will root out irrationality whenever we can.I'm sorry to hear you aren't of this type.
@MrShysterme you want physical/real action that I do/don't do because of my religion?
crossing the street (by foot) only when I have a green light.
others might cross it even with a red light, because they look both ways, and decide that the street is clear, or the cars are too far to be a problem. I will wait, even in a raining day, until I'll have a green light to cross.
yes, this is irrational. but I "comfort" my self with my belief, that I'm doing the right thing.
(cont) in fact, my belief is what make my action rational.
by accepting a model of the univ', where by following the rules, one is reducing the chance of harm from happening to himself (even if it's unsubstantiated) it becomes rational to wait for the green light, in an empty street.
@eyallev What you wrote is a bit of a non sequitur, unless I'm not understanding what part of my statement you are attempting to address/refute.Your action is rational due to understanding the law, the physics of car crashes, and human biology.In this way, you have accurate information and are using it.You have just demonstrated why it is important to take as your first priority understanding reality as best possible and placing this above your projected consequences.
@MrShysterme but if I see no cars around, and have just seen my friend cross the street, and no cop jumped him to give him a ticket, and still, I refuse to cross it. my only reason now is something irrational.
no the question is, which came first.
I want to act a certine way, so I adopt a set of believs, underwhich I feel comfortable.
or I build a belief system, and my actions will than follow them.
@eyallev If you can modulate what you believe based upon what is desirable to you, then again I must ask, what is the limit?Why do you not believe even more extravagant things?Why should anyone attempt to reason with you if you are stating that you will believe something contrary simply because it feels good to you?So,I'll end by agreeing with you.Yes,you believe in this because it makes you feel good.That is totally outside a conversation of what is real,which is the one worth having.
@MrShysterme the point here I'm trying to make, is that all religions, are basiclly like my belief system here.
in the end (after you strip the claims for evidance, and the stupid arguments) all you are left with, is a believer that believes, because he wants to.
and yes, like you said, once a believer gets to this point, he is undebatable.
what I want is to have "hard believer", realize this. to have them realize that they can keep thier believes, but they should stop trying to prove.
@eyallev Good. I hope you convince many to do this. Once religious belief is reduced to this, then it will eventually reduce in prevalence to the point of having no political effect. I wish you well with this goal then.
@eyallev ..... it becomes rational to wait for the green light, in an empty street....
Nope u are wrong again, it is not rational but this is the limit of the traffic lights system can deliver, its rational if the lights can detect safety as a feature to cross the road. So It is irrational/not-a-good-reason to wait in an empty street red light but then u r govern by rules rather by rationality.
@eyallev when i do this I comfort myself with the notion that there may have been a police officer some where near by that might have given me a ticket,(smarter to wait)
@eyallev I agree we are driven by our emotions, however, if your notions are disconnected from reality it is unrealistic that it should get support from those are are acquainted with reality. So, to the extent that your notions are left as your notions, not affecting/effecting others - fine... To the extent that you are causing harm due to your delusions of reality, expect that it will be resisted by those who appreciate reality and the ability to do based on a substantive base.
@eyallev What's your point? It's irrelevant. The issue is "personal gods".. I.E. religions. Whether or not you WANT to believe there is a good doesn't matter. What matters is the brain washing and indoctrination of youths and other malleable minds.. The manipulation of the masses because of this indoctrination. The refutation and hurdles of ACTUAL knowledge and development as a result of ignorant religions.. etc etc. Your insecure yearnings is irrelevant
@eyallev That has to be the first really compleatly rational statement I ever have heard from a thiest, and I not only recognize it as honest but I will attempt to respect it.
I wonder if what could work is a device that can disrupt the "god feeling" in the brain. It could be used whenever a believer experiences the feeling. If the believer recognizes that the feeling is gone every time the device is activated, then either the device is more powerful than god every time, or the feeling is due to mere brain activity. Any other option?
@CarpetShark2010 Actually, that's already been done. Check out Micheal Shermer's books on why people believe weird things. He points out that actual experiments have been done doing just that: inducing the feeling of god! It worked, but here's the fun part: people only felt/saw the god of their youth! i.e. - Americans didn't see Ganesha, they saw Jeeeebus.
So, yes, I CAN make a person feel/see god, it's been done, now what's the next inane justification for this stupid shit?
@Krocotto "experiments have been done doing just that: inducing the feeling of god"
I was considering the opposite: a device that SUPPRESSES the feeling of god.
Of course if such a device existed (and weren't dangerous), a challenge would be to know when to activate it, i.e. when a believer is getting the "god feeling". A good place might be at a religious function, I guess.
@CarpetShark2010 I suppose if you told them what the device did (but not the goal of the experiment), then you could induce the feeling and then ask them how they are feeling. They might identify it as their usual god experience and feel like they are in god's presence, etc.Then immediately turn the machine off and ask them how they feel. If it goes away, then maybe you've accomplished something.However,this unethical perhaps and it might backfire (god feeling can be self sustained once felt).
How can WLC's experience of the holy spirit be self authenticating? The authenticity that he refers to could just as easily be a delusion of the mind. The word authenticating is very badly applied here.
This video gave me something of an aha-moment , because I was indoctrinated into theism and persisted within it mainly because of these feelings of god's presence until quite recently. I did not have this feeling prior to being exposed to christian teachings at around 7 years of age, but I know I had it at the end of grade school, and now I know why: I was being converted during the age those neural structures involved in generating it develop!
You waking up and go on YouTube, looking at your subscribe list and "BOOM"!! Brettppalmer just uploaded a new video !! Fucking better then Christmas eve !!. . .
@brettppalmer Actually I should be the one that thanking you for your amazing videos and the hours of entertainment and education that it's bring. Thank you, and looking forward for your next video =)
@OpinionatedAussie To expand on that - The argument I use against feelings is usailly "but muslims , buddists , hindus etc can all also use that argument as well - does that mean that all their gods are real aswell" so far it has about a 25% success rate.
@Nixom1334 Heck, I'm 44 and I STILL feel monsters under the bed or in the closet. Unfortunately I still have no sense of a god to defend me against them. So I've only been cured of half of my psychosis! :)
Excellent video, but I think there is one last argument skeptics can give to believers, and this is that many other people "feel" other gods the same way the feel it. At least, they are indistinguishable. So logically, all people that feel gods are right in they conclusion is real or feeling gods is just in our brains.
After this, the only thing the theist can do is ignore the rest of people saying they feel other gods, and that is not very honest and realistic
While I generally agree with the thesis of your video, I think that the skeptic can do one thing: tell the theist about the experiments with the brain and the known psychological effects. In other words, instead of backing off, give them the alternative natural explanations (eg for obe)
and that they have misinterpreted their (very real!!) experience. They will have to deal with this in the long run.
If the theist says their god exists because they feel it, I say it does not because I do not feel it. They do not accept my lack of feeling for evidence of their god's lack of existance, but from there they must comprehend why their feelings are not proof to me.
I wonder if the phantom sense of a presence that children experience as their brains mature is also responsible for children sensing "monsters under the bed" and other night terrors.
I've never tried to argue against the personal experience one has had; I don't want to insult anyone. Instead I'd prefer to ask questions about that experience, or related matters. Not to argue against their beliefs usually, but to understand what they feel & believe. Sometimes I really don't want any more than to listen, especially if I know there's no point in arguing.
I find it very hard to except it because I used to "feel god" since I once believed in god and so forth. Many atheist have said that if jesus came to them, that would convince them. I say NO, that would not convince me. Wouldnt convince me at all. If a voice came into my head, I'd believe I was schizophrenic or something.
How much less credible WLC's testimony sounds with one minor change in the direction of increased accuracy: "... on the basis of the witness of the holy spirit, in my BRAIN."
The familiar, anatomically laughable "heart" distracts the audience from the existence things like neurons, neurotransmitters, etc.
Please tell me which neurosensor/receptor you use to 'feel' your imaginary friend? We have 5 different receptor types; thermo,mechanical, pain, photo and chemo. Which is it please? Don't try the bullshit line of 'We just feel Him'. Be specific please. Our sensors pick up types of energy and transmit impulses from these sensors to our brain or spinal cord for interpretation. What 'energy' is god using to 'communicate' with you?
there is a cause of everything. this complex universe must also have a cause. this cause is god. why skeptics don't understand this simple logic because THEY DON'T WANT TO UNDERSTAND. it is their FAITH that god do not exist. so strong a faith for the skeptics.
This is a bullshit argument. If there is an absolute cause for everything, then there MUST be one for your god. If your god can be exception, there is no reason to assume everything else must have a cause. You can't make blanket statements about everything needing a cause and then create an exception. Doesn't work that way!
@freedomofthought100 Hes asking why must your god be the first cause? Why can't it be someone or something that just accidentally started there, it doesn't HAVE to be your god. Its the "God of the gaps" argument. Also have you ever heard of a causality paradox? Family guy did an episode of this beautifully.
@freedomofthought100 Sure it can, I see no reason why it cannot, and we have no reason to believe a "god" did anything because we see no evidence of a god or to the fact he did anything if at all, if he did it, there would be tons of evidence to show for it. As to the Causality Paradox, it goes to say the universe was created by something that didn't exist without the big bang happening, and thus the big bang happens when someone is born to create it as in not a god.
One of the points people have been trying to explain to you is that IF your statement above is true, then God cannot exist. And if it's not true, and something did always exist then it's far more likely something much simpler than a God always existed.
@Trelli28 no, not necessarily. that's just where scientific observation has led us. We (as in people) have been able to track the universe's history almost to the beginning, and the "Big Bang" is what we've found evidence of. However, scientists haven't necessarily come to that conclusion, that's just what observations have told them. And its much more than a "random boom", it's the result of some extremely complicated chemistry and physics. You should look into it more and see what you can find
@Trelli28 ok firstly, the bigbang is not a"random boom" and has never said to be by any scienctist. 2nd ,christianity promotes a invisible diety that never reviels itself,has no proof it exists and poofs things into being by magic ,now thats nonsense and a completely silly
@freedomofthought100 I don't know! So let's find out and after we have enough evidence ,to proclaim the truth and not simply toss our hands in the air and simply proclaim whatever our imagination can produce is responsible for such an act without a trickle of evidence and truth to support it!
@freedomofthought100 You keep making assumptions. No one knows if the universe even needs a cause therefore you constantly assuming god is one is false. Why can't you understand this simple point?
@freedomofthought100 I understand how simple you are but what caused it? Lack of oxygen at at birth or bad nutrition during your childhood years? Or did your parents fail in a disaterious manner? But the event that happened was in the end your misguided or is it underdeveloped intellect? So many questions and no good answers. In the end I suppose your god might be responsible.
it is not lack of oxygen nor it is mal nutrition. it is right way of conducting reasoning. theists believe that god is somebody who loves the right and hate wrong. but our experience contradicts this definition. atheists believe that there is no god and universe is created randomly which also contradicts our experience of cause-effect. then what is god? god is the cause of the universe but he neither reward the right nor punish the wrong. he just is there being aloof.
god is the cause of the universe but he neither reward the right nor punish the wrong. he just is there being completely aloof. this definition just fit our daily experience. is not it? man suffers due to his own ignorance. god is not doing anything.
You must be over 1000 years old if you use that argument!!!!!!!! I want to meet you! I've never met a person over 1000 years old!
"First Cause" was used by the pederasts of the Catholic govt over a 1000 years ago and it was shot to the shit it is by competent thinkers (i.e. anyone over 5 yrs old) without breaking a sweat.
Damn, what books are you reading? Buy a new one, for pity's sake.
@tacojohn9 Ah, yes, the inferior mind of Aquinas is still the boon the even more inferior minds that, devoid of any originality themselves, continue to parrot his laughably flawed arguments.
Or have YOU not read a book written since that boob infected human thought?
how skeptics dismiss the bible: some knowledge are true and some are false.because bible contain some false knowledge, bible will not be considered as an evidence. this approach can be analogized this way: there is a fruit bucket containing both ripe and rotten fruits. because the bucket contains rotten fruits , the entire bucket should be thrown out of the window. forget about ripe fruits in the bucket.
@freedomofthought100 Not the best analogy you used there. I think most people, when their basket is half full of rotten fruit, will not take the chance of biting into a worm because one looks or feels ripe.
But the point of dismissing the bible is sound. If you have a friend who tells you lies half the time, do you not think about everything they tell you and consider if it's reasonable?
You use the same skeptic logic in other areas of your life. Just not religion, or apparently fruit baskets.
you generalize things. If you have a friend who tells you lies half the time,does not mean that he is lying all the time. i hate the lies and not the liar.
I think most people, when their basket is half full of rotten fruit, will not take the chance of biting into a worm because one looks or feels ripe.
again generalizing. half full of rotten fruit. reject the rotten fruit and accept the fresh fruit. just test the fruit honestly.
my method is to test whether things are as they are perceived. there existed once a man called christ is a true fact. that he was crucified is a true fact.that he heals people is a true fact.
i just gave you 3 examples of true facts contained in the bible. there may be more true facts. all i want to say is that we should take the truth and reject the false fact.
@freedomofthought100 Well, the first two are trivial. Many people existed and were killed. The third (healing) is true of many people (doctors). As far as healing from beyond the grave, as Jesus is reported to do, it is strange that it is: 1. so capricious in that he lets SO many children die who pray to him in earnest, 2. it is never really proven (it's some low probability event like a spontaneous remission of cancer), and 3.related to 2 you never see anything astounding like a limb regrow.
This video is kinda depressing in a educational way.
ZOMBIETH44 4 days ago
So while a believer freely acknowledges the role that the brain plays in experiencing God, the speaker's confinement of these experiences to internal cognitive or subconcious processes, cannot explain the experience of knowledge or even fore knowledge of things outside of his body, mind or persona.
To sum up then - an interesting video indeed, but not one which severs any validity to experiencing God.
faithbyloving 1 week ago
@faithbyloving Nor was it meant to. My point here is that while "experiences" of "god" can reasonably be explained as an event of the brain, convincing someone personally that their own "experience" wasn't genuine is next to impossible.
brettppalmer 1 week ago
@brettppalmer Quite! Convincing someone that they didn't experience God is highly unlikely to succeed when it involves knowledge or events outside of themselves, which they wouldn't ordinarily know. I think we are in agreement here. It would be similar to trying to convince you that I haven't sent you a message on youtube, when you know that I have.
faithbyloving 1 week ago
@faithbyloving No. Because you can show me the message as well as show the message to independent parties. If I still refuse to believe you sent me a message you'd need to explore the reason for that denial. It is completely different with respect to people who believe they've received a message from "god."
brettppalmer 6 days ago
@brettppalmer So while the subject of your videos concerns subjective experiences of emotions or ideas etc, it ends there, since it offers no explanation to the experience of receiving information that one could not possibly know from an external source. Therefore, the video concentrates on subjective experience that is limited to the brain, it does not account for experiences in which there is clearly something very much more going on.
faithbyloving 1 week ago
Perhaps the most astonishing of these are represented by the writings of the Prophets in the Bible, whose prophecies not only predicted the dispersion of Israel, but its return 2000 yrs later and not content with that, further prophecies which indicate its opposition by a confederation of muslim nations (currently in the process of forming, if today's political assessment is carefully observed!
faithbyloving 1 week ago
@faithbyloving Yes, while I don't treat the "prophecies" of the Bible in this video, I mention this ("Scripture") as one of the pillars of belief. Your interpretation of Scripture as having prophetic power is not persuasive or indicative of "information that one could not possibly know from an external source." I will be dealing with so-called biblical "prophecy" in a future production.
brettppalmer 6 days ago
@brettppalmer I think you will have a very hard job if your intention is to try to 'disprove' the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy! I don't envy you!
faithbyloving 6 days ago
@faithbyloving I will simply do what I always do: Explain the Bible in its own contexts, and not in the ones believers wish to impose upon it. It's not very difficult at all.
brettppalmer 6 days ago
@brettppalmer You will find the context of these prophecies does not fit any biblical times, if you read the scriptures properly and the context is unmistakable, even by you.
faithbyloving 6 days ago
@faithbyloving "Even by you..." Nice. And your assumption that I'm not all ready familiar with these so-called "prophecies" and their native biblical contexts tells me you're about as open to anything I might have to say on the subject as a bull's ass during fly season. Have a nice day.
brettppalmer 6 days ago
@faithbyloving I would suggest that you RE-READ that prophecy regarding the return of Israel. CultofDusty did a funny bit about it, however, it was true with regard to what the scriptures actually depict. /watch?v=F6LAKleHUr8
MyContext 6 hours ago
@brettppalmer @brettppalmer On the contrary, it is extremely persuasive to anyone with an honest appraisal of it.
faithbyloving 6 days ago
@brettppalmer So I hope that you will be "dealing with" it's fulfillment in the return of Israel in 1948 as a nation.
faithbyloving 6 days ago
Whilst I have no doubt that many experiences are internally generated, (as in irrational dreams etc), it may not be the case that all experiences are internally generated. They present this with no references to experiences which indicate external factors may be involved, such as information experienced which the person experiencing it, could not reasonably know.
faithbyloving 1 week ago
@faithbyloving Yeah, you already said this. Please don't spam my comment section. This would have been better served as a PM.
brettppalmer 6 days ago
I don't know about god, but I do know that the monster in my closet is real. He/she/it has been following me since I was little. I suspect that it hasn't eaten me yet, because I was too small to be much of a meal as a kid (60lbs at 13). So he waited. I suspect now that he is now waiting for me to hit old age, as I would probably give too much of a fight. He is still there, I know it, I feel it, and as soon as I complete my monster in the closet detecto-matic, I will prove it to the world.
veggiescrub 1 week ago
I experience the flaw of the 'God' feeling in my life first hand and also later and seeing how pointless it is as a bases for proof. Perhaps many achieved a sense of hope they were missing in their your life and need a crutch like the bible to give them... But I would also say the feelings are even stronger now, perhaps a hypothetical force moves those who question it just as those who follow a book, actually even more so as they do not limit themselves to it. Its like being saved everyday.
MarsStarcruiser 2 weeks ago
Felt an awakening feeling in church and when I experienced a miracle(or so I thought.) I was saved and 'felt' it again. Same awakening occurred during drug use(LOL thought I was so smart, then re-watched video of myself to realize how just how dumb)...awakening feeling again in sheer amazement of mathematics, science and the wondrous technologies. I also felt awakened in understanding that we can and should question idea of 'God'. Same feeling of saved in both acceptance and rejection of God.
MarsStarcruiser 2 weeks ago
i watched greek and scandanavian myth shows last night. you can see where the story is fantastic and mythical with dragons and giants. but they point to a truth about the human condition which is where i can see the bible stories come from. helped put things in some perspective. i don't care if ppl believe god just don't say he commanded this so "you" hafta obey. no ones got the only truth on god. didnt jesus have something to say about being humble?
adzug 2 weeks ago
Thanks for the great video man. Taking Psychology classes at college right now so this was very interesting for me.
ShinigamiKonata 2 weeks ago
Great video. I've long wondered how theists can relay on their feelings, while acknowledging that people of other faiths claim to know their god exists through feelings as well. They dismiss those feelings out of hand but swear by their own. How can one differentiate between feelings? To have a scientific explanation for those feelings, is a great step forward.
JonasGrumby71 3 weeks ago
Wouldn't some of the info in this video be a good response to theists who "feel" god, rather than just ending the discussion?
blurglide 3 weeks ago
lol, god like to be felt?
mandrillx 3 weeks ago
Added to favourites immediately, thanks - this rings so true for a number of conversations I've had with believers in recent years.
When "I feel it" is the only refuge/reason left after all other arguments have disintegrated, it's time to let the person sit with his/her own contemplations on the matter.
JUSTHELLBENT 3 weeks ago
Thanks Bret for this logical explanation of inexplicable phenomena.
Dancinstan1 3 weeks ago
I do wish that Atheists would stop using "Theist" as a synonym for "Monotheist," or even "Christian." There are lots of other kinds of theists out there. The scientists in this video don't make this mistake, but the poster does. It's a nice flipside to Evangelicals using "Believer" to mean "Evangelical Christian."
Naiant 3 weeks ago
@Naiant Ok...fair enough; what word would you suggest that covers those who believe in a god, or gods, and who claim to "feel" it/she/he/their presence?
brettppalmer 3 weeks ago
@brettppalmer "Theist" fits that already. It just isn't synonymous with "monotheist" or "Christian." As a polytheist, I sometimes feel left out when atheists criticicize theists. After all, wse can be crazy too.
Naiant 3 weeks ago
@Naiant :) I was gonna say, polytheists just get to feel more gods! Which might not necessarily be a bad thing. I hear Persephone was quite a looker! ;)
brettppalmer 3 weeks ago
@brettppalmer as you read this, I tell you, the same way you're all out for the devil, you'll be all out for God five times more intense. For every one person you've helped to lead to the devil, 1000 more will be led to God. All strongholds dissolve! A lies, submit to TRUTH!
Trelli28 3 weeks ago
@Trelli28 You're a loon.
brettppalmer 3 weeks ago 17
@brettppalmer Or a troll. Mind you I do love the whole "You don't believe in God? You must worship the devil!" thing the real lunatics do :) Note to any of you guys reading this - we don't believe in the devil either ;)
MrHedgehog380 3 weeks ago
@MrHedgehog380 thank you!! and may i add that such beliefs only weaponizes hope and fear, aka the perfect mental prison
ripmowt 2 weeks ago
@MrHedgehog380 a believer's answer to "You don't believe in God? You must worship the devil!" would be "that's what the devil wants you to think" it makes me chuckle. ehem my answer "that what the church(any one) wants you to think" but they will never accept that the 'good guys' at the real tricksters. the carrot and the whip at the same time.. very clever
ripmowt 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Trelli28 as you read this, I tell you, the same way you're all out for evil leprechauns, you'll be all out for the Holy Unicorn five times more intense. For every one person you've helped to lead to the evil leprechauns , 1000 more will be led to the Holy Unicorn. All strongholds dissolve! A lies, submit to TRUTH!
TerryStoneNL 2 weeks ago
@Trelli28 when you cant provide good argument, just assert that the other person is of the devil,,,,, a CLASSIC!
wearestarstuffsagan 1 week ago 2
All our experiences are really just in the brain. Every rational thought. Every article of faith. Every sense we use to touch, smell, see, hear, taste, and feel the world around us. Every delusion and moment of clarity. Our perception of reality. It all is just an interpretation of the brain. It begs the question, then, what is really real? Can we trust our senses? Our logic? For this reason I am agnostic. I have no reason to believe in God, but I don't dismiss the possibility either. Good video
mydogbanjo 3 weeks ago 2
I once tried to honestly and sincerely "feel" god once.
He started screaming "BAD TOUCH! BAD TOUCH!" Now I have to register when I move to a new community. Not happy about that.
YuiDaoren 3 weeks ago 8
@YuiDaoren ROTF!
MyContext 7 hours ago
I second that!
Excellent video!
nyyght7 3 weeks ago
Excellent video!
Brianchse 3 weeks ago 2
A person that believes without analysis and thoughts, who acts without consistency, and who acts without virtue, is indeed someone that doesn't truly believe.
Great Video. You express yourself clearly and concisely. Appreciated. I disagree, but that is fine.
Some arguments aren't convincing to others, while others are more than sufficient. Just because one doesn't agree or accept an argument doesn't qualify the reason or rationale for another's acceptance.
Peace
Teddy3inDC 3 weeks ago 2
Great video, Brett. The more information we have on how the brain works, the less places for a god to be found.
souljulez 3 weeks ago 2
Excellent Video! ;D
nazmibest 3 weeks ago
Excellent video, and I would say "feeling God" is the number one roadblock for many theists. And it amazes me how many theists think our inner dialog is actually external. The cartoon of God sitting on one shoulder, and the devil on the other arguing as to whether you should or shouldn't take a certain action is, to many of them, a real depiction of what they think is happening when they are experiencing that inner dialogue.
TheNakedAtheist 3 weeks ago 3
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6stringsbrainfingers 3 weeks ago
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6stringsbrainfingers 3 weeks ago
that's why i love science and evolution so much. when you actually take the time to think, and research a topic you realize how primitive our beliefs and reasons for beliefs and actions are. dont like the dark, because predators lurked in the dark. fear of heights, falling out of trees, enjoys climbing trees as a child, cuz we used to live in trees. science, it works.
kiddhitta 3 weeks ago
still a genius auto-creator univers is an unreasonable explanation of this beautifull perfect creation .
lahoucine66 3 weeks ago
This was very interesting. The 'corpus colossum' bit made perfect sense to me -- so THAT's why a lot of religions have confirmation rites at that approximate age! I learned something there. Also, the point about why do western cultures isolate their infants from the mother in a dark room at an early age -- again it made perfect sense to me (I immediately thought about 'Family Guy's' Chris Griffin character & his evil monkey delusion lol). Thanks Brett, very thought provoking indeed!
bobbytookalook 3 weeks ago
Good to see you still making videos. I was wondering if you'd come back
anzwertree 3 weeks ago 6
@anzwertree I'm not going anywhere!
brettppalmer 3 weeks ago 4
@brettppalmer listen fella, calm yourself and stop pretending to be an expert on something you are completely clueless about. You cannot dictate to people what they experience based on whatever nonsense 'data' you've gathered.
Trelli28 3 weeks ago
@Trelli28 i don't see how he's "clueless" about it. Sure, he definitely doesn't have all the details, but his video is based on fact and research from legitimate experts on the subject. There are always two sides to the argument, and you shouldn't just rule out the other side because you simply disagree with it. :/
IggyTkO 3 weeks ago
@IggyTkO "we who"? don't piggy back off other people's so-called "discoveries". When you find out that those discoveries were outright lies and deceptions, what will you do then? Especially when it can cost you so much...?
Trelli28 3 weeks ago
@Trelli28 I think he has such an interest in it because he was raised in a very Christian household (as was I), but then he noticed inconsistencies, so he developed an interest in the subject. Because of this, I think he wants to tell other people his opinions and why he doesn't believe in God. As for me, I believe what makes more sense. The whole notion of a Godlike entity just doesn't seem logical to me. And how do you know that those scientific observations are 'outright lies and deceptions'?
IggyTkO 3 weeks ago
@Trelli28 Can you pull your panties down a bit? I think you've got them hiked up all in a bunch.
brettppalmer 3 weeks ago
@brettppalmer Really, really great response Bret!!
Dancinstan1 3 weeks ago
@Trelli28 Beg pardon? Did someone piss in your corn flakes this morning, pal? Name anywhere in my vid I tried to pass myself off as an expert. Name at which minute/second point I dictated *anything*. This vid merely meant to point out that while many "proofs" theists use to buttress their belief in God can be answered by skeptics, the personal "feelings" of God --even scientifically explained--can often be an impenetrable barrier to rational discussion. You'd know that if you'd watched it.
brettppalmer 3 weeks ago
@Trelli28 But I'll be willing to bet you have no hesitation in using the computer, or your cell phone or turning on the light switch. Be nice if you were self aware enough to see your own delusions, but scant chance of that.
Dancinstan1 3 weeks ago
@Dancinstan1 Ever heard of a man named Robert Gilmour LeTourneau?
Trelli28 3 weeks ago
@brettppalmer instead of seeking to disprove Christianity, why don't you challenge yourself; drop all your defenses and try seeing from Christianity's perspective. For a month, all your reactions you've developed, drop them and read people like curry blake and todd white. (you're protecting yourself from something you associate with Christianity, for self-validation; otherwise why such a keen interest into something you don't believe. Truth is, you believe but is afraid)
Trelli28 3 weeks ago
@Trelli28 You really are a confused little fellow, aren't you? You try to chastise me for "dictating" to others and for "pretending to be an expert," and then you go off assuming I've never been religious and have never been faithful and then lay out some sort of nonsense plan you think will convert me. Do you realize how much of a buffoon you're making yourself into? Do *yourself* a favor and watch all my vids (there are 105 of them); then get back to me.
brettppalmer 3 weeks ago
@brettppalmer When did I tell you to be religious? Nor did I offer to 'convert you'. You're overloaded with assumptions. You're first was to assume I'm a fellow. I wasn't about to respond to you, except to tell that dancin stan to research Robert Gilmour LeTourneau.
True Christianity is not a religion. It's a relationship. Find out what that means...
Trelli28 3 weeks ago
@Trelli28 What, because a deluded inventor is a "believer" should mean something or have some intellectual weight? He made a lot of money and founded a "christian" university, good for him. Doesn't prove him right or validate his fantasies, or yours I might add.
Dancinstan1 3 weeks ago
@Dancinstan1 deluded to have dropped out of school at age 14, never even completed high school yet engineered large earth moving machines that you with all your intellect cannot. He prayed and saw visions of how to create them, as have other inventors you failed to acknowledge when u spoke of the computer, phone etc. Wisdom comes from God whether you know it or not.
Trelli28 3 weeks ago
@Trelli28 And one should believe that because you said so? As your later comments reveal, you revert to bullying and threats when your favorite imaginary friend aren't accepted. So much for the "loving god" concept,eh? Van Gogh was a great artist, but he was still mentally ill, the two often go together.
Dancinstan1 3 weeks ago
Personal experience can lead to tragic consequences, personal experience can mislead, just look at optical and aural illusions. So why should we place trust in personal experiences when there are no other means to back them up?
TheTomtompiper 3 weeks ago
Excellent as always! I just want to point out that like other youtube atheists, you seem to equate theists with Christians. Jews for instance, seldom if ever claim to feel god.
kilroy1964 3 weeks ago
@kilroy1964 I try not to pick on just the Christian faith in God so I use the broader term. I also realize there are Christians who also never claim to "feel" God in the sense I use in this video. But, so that I don't come across as singling out one group of theists, I just use the generic term.
brettppalmer 3 weeks ago
Oh, I accept the fact that these people do sincerely believe what they do believe, I just don't understand why anyone who is rational would. Perhaps the keyword here is rational.
bvwatcher2 3 weeks ago 2
Great video! Thanks for making it!
ehipassiko 3 weeks ago 2
Thanks for a great vid.
metrx330 3 weeks ago
Well put together. The work you put into your videos always shows. Thanks for taking the time.
richardmoz 3 weeks ago
As a former Mormon, I get how hard it is to talk to my family and friends about their feelings that god answers their prayers. Mormons are some of the worst at this.
tacojohn9 3 weeks ago
I got another pillier. but this one, can only be used by thoes who understand that belief can't be proven.
I too have a belief in god. not because of science, not because of feelings, not because of anything I can prove. I have a belief, because I want to.
I like the idea of life after death.
I like the idea of, one day, knowing what now is out of reach.
I like the idea that there is an ultimate good (and hope that I'm doing it).
is there a god? I don't know. I hope there is.
eyallev 3 weeks ago
@eyallev .....hmm, if what makes you feel good dictates what you believe, then what real limits do you have? This seems unhealthy and irrational.
MrShysterme 3 weeks ago
@MrShysterme what's unhealthy, is ignoring our irrationality.
people believe, because they want to believe. that is the bottom line of it all. When you dig down to it, there is no good reason to do ANYTHING, and yet, we do. why? because of irrationality, nothing unhealthy about it.
why do you go to school? why study? why live? I do it, because I find comfort doing it, and I enjoy it. THAT is irrational, there is no real "point" to it, but still we all do it.
eyallev 3 weeks ago
@eyallev You're mixing mental and physical activities here.We start with a certain set of mental drives and then work to accomplish them.The surest way to achieve what you would like in reality is to have your beliefs line up as closely as possible with reality.Therefore, the human mind usually will value truth because accurate information is our must important resource.As a result,most of us will root out irrationality whenever we can.I'm sorry to hear you aren't of this type.
MrShysterme 3 weeks ago
@MrShysterme you want physical/real action that I do/don't do because of my religion?
crossing the street (by foot) only when I have a green light.
others might cross it even with a red light, because they look both ways, and decide that the street is clear, or the cars are too far to be a problem. I will wait, even in a raining day, until I'll have a green light to cross.
yes, this is irrational. but I "comfort" my self with my belief, that I'm doing the right thing.
eyallev 3 weeks ago
(cont) in fact, my belief is what make my action rational.
by accepting a model of the univ', where by following the rules, one is reducing the chance of harm from happening to himself (even if it's unsubstantiated) it becomes rational to wait for the green light, in an empty street.
eyallev 3 weeks ago
@eyallev the "reason" behind a red light is to control traffic patterns, not to make people stop for no reason aka when the street is empty
brianestoll 3 weeks ago
@eyallev What you wrote is a bit of a non sequitur, unless I'm not understanding what part of my statement you are attempting to address/refute.Your action is rational due to understanding the law, the physics of car crashes, and human biology.In this way, you have accurate information and are using it.You have just demonstrated why it is important to take as your first priority understanding reality as best possible and placing this above your projected consequences.
MrShysterme 3 weeks ago
@MrShysterme but if I see no cars around, and have just seen my friend cross the street, and no cop jumped him to give him a ticket, and still, I refuse to cross it. my only reason now is something irrational.
no the question is, which came first.
I want to act a certine way, so I adopt a set of believs, underwhich I feel comfortable.
or I build a belief system, and my actions will than follow them.
from my understanding, it's a little bit of both.
eyallev 3 weeks ago
@eyallev If you can modulate what you believe based upon what is desirable to you, then again I must ask, what is the limit?Why do you not believe even more extravagant things?Why should anyone attempt to reason with you if you are stating that you will believe something contrary simply because it feels good to you?So,I'll end by agreeing with you.Yes,you believe in this because it makes you feel good.That is totally outside a conversation of what is real,which is the one worth having.
MrShysterme 3 weeks ago
@MrShysterme the point here I'm trying to make, is that all religions, are basiclly like my belief system here.
in the end (after you strip the claims for evidance, and the stupid arguments) all you are left with, is a believer that believes, because he wants to.
and yes, like you said, once a believer gets to this point, he is undebatable.
what I want is to have "hard believer", realize this. to have them realize that they can keep thier believes, but they should stop trying to prove.
eyallev 3 weeks ago
@eyallev Good. I hope you convince many to do this. Once religious belief is reduced to this, then it will eventually reduce in prevalence to the point of having no political effect. I wish you well with this goal then.
MrShysterme 3 weeks ago
@eyallev ....my belief is what make my action rational.....
On the contrary, u are doing things the way civil society groomed much of the dos and don'ts, but not specifically from a religious point.
mykegoh 3 weeks ago
@eyallev ..... it becomes rational to wait for the green light, in an empty street....
Nope u are wrong again, it is not rational but this is the limit of the traffic lights system can deliver, its rational if the lights can detect safety as a feature to cross the road. So It is irrational/not-a-good-reason to wait in an empty street red light but then u r govern by rules rather by rationality.
mykegoh 3 weeks ago
@eyallev when i do this I comfort myself with the notion that there may have been a police officer some where near by that might have given me a ticket,(smarter to wait)
mandrillx 3 weeks ago
@eyallev I agree we are driven by our emotions, however, if your notions are disconnected from reality it is unrealistic that it should get support from those are are acquainted with reality. So, to the extent that your notions are left as your notions, not affecting/effecting others - fine... To the extent that you are causing harm due to your delusions of reality, expect that it will be resisted by those who appreciate reality and the ability to do based on a substantive base.
MyContext 4 hours ago
@eyallev What's your point? It's irrelevant. The issue is "personal gods".. I.E. religions. Whether or not you WANT to believe there is a good doesn't matter. What matters is the brain washing and indoctrination of youths and other malleable minds.. The manipulation of the masses because of this indoctrination. The refutation and hurdles of ACTUAL knowledge and development as a result of ignorant religions.. etc etc. Your insecure yearnings is irrelevant
xESOTERlC 3 weeks ago
@eyallev I like pink unicorns, and I hope they exist too. Any difference to your favorite fantasy?
Dancinstan1 3 weeks ago
@eyallev That has to be the first really compleatly rational statement I ever have heard from a thiest, and I not only recognize it as honest but I will attempt to respect it.
berrywoke 4 days ago
Lies your parents tell you
''There are no monsters under the bed''
x42brown 3 weeks ago
I wonder if what could work is a device that can disrupt the "god feeling" in the brain. It could be used whenever a believer experiences the feeling. If the believer recognizes that the feeling is gone every time the device is activated, then either the device is more powerful than god every time, or the feeling is due to mere brain activity. Any other option?
CarpetShark2010 3 weeks ago
@CarpetShark2010 Actually, that's already been done. Check out Micheal Shermer's books on why people believe weird things. He points out that actual experiments have been done doing just that: inducing the feeling of god! It worked, but here's the fun part: people only felt/saw the god of their youth! i.e. - Americans didn't see Ganesha, they saw Jeeeebus.
So, yes, I CAN make a person feel/see god, it's been done, now what's the next inane justification for this stupid shit?
Krocotto 3 weeks ago
@Krocotto "experiments have been done doing just that: inducing the feeling of god"
I was considering the opposite: a device that SUPPRESSES the feeling of god.
Of course if such a device existed (and weren't dangerous), a challenge would be to know when to activate it, i.e. when a believer is getting the "god feeling". A good place might be at a religious function, I guess.
CarpetShark2010 3 weeks ago
@CarpetShark2010 I suppose if you told them what the device did (but not the goal of the experiment), then you could induce the feeling and then ask them how they are feeling. They might identify it as their usual god experience and feel like they are in god's presence, etc.Then immediately turn the machine off and ask them how they feel. If it goes away, then maybe you've accomplished something.However,this unethical perhaps and it might backfire (god feeling can be self sustained once felt).
MrShysterme 3 weeks ago
@CarpetShark2010 Very interesting thought.
MrShysterme 3 weeks ago
The "I feel god" response is, among other things, an admission that evidence is irrelevant.
WildwoodClaire1 3 weeks ago
How can WLC's experience of the holy spirit be self authenticating? The authenticity that he refers to could just as easily be a delusion of the mind. The word authenticating is very badly applied here.
kalsolarUK 3 weeks ago
by the title i thought that this would be dirtier
SephieRothe 3 weeks ago
This video gave me something of an aha-moment , because I was indoctrinated into theism and persisted within it mainly because of these feelings of god's presence until quite recently. I did not have this feeling prior to being exposed to christian teachings at around 7 years of age, but I know I had it at the end of grade school, and now I know why: I was being converted during the age those neural structures involved in generating it develop!
ObakeOnna 3 weeks ago
You waking up and go on YouTube, looking at your subscribe list and "BOOM"!! Brettppalmer just uploaded a new video !! Fucking better then Christmas eve !!. . .
TheRobinL 3 weeks ago 20
@TheRobinL Well, crap....that REALLY motivates me to get to work on the next one! Santa Lives! :)
brettppalmer 3 weeks ago 12
@brettppalmer Actually I should be the one that thanking you for your amazing videos and the hours of entertainment and education that it's bring. Thank you, and looking forward for your next video =)
And the Easter Bunny is real, I promise ;)
TheRobinL 3 weeks ago 2
I know Catholic seminarians are often warned of and taught to be highly skeptical of things like "feeling God".
watch?v=FaeKYfWz01Q
wimsweden 3 weeks ago
It's hard to have an intelligent discussion with theists because so many of them are unable to differentiate between belief and knowledge.
Hyperplaterine 3 weeks ago 3
If "I FEEL god" were a legitimate evidence for god, just about every religion in the world would be true
OpinionatedAussie 3 weeks ago 2
@OpinionatedAussie To expand on that - The argument I use against feelings is usailly "but muslims , buddists , hindus etc can all also use that argument as well - does that mean that all their gods are real aswell" so far it has about a 25% success rate.
CryptSphinx 3 weeks ago
Kids feel monsters in their closet or under the bed, why aren't THEY taken seriously? theism is nothing more then a psychosis.
Nixom1334 3 weeks ago 27
@Nixom1334 Heck, I'm 44 and I STILL feel monsters under the bed or in the closet. Unfortunately I still have no sense of a god to defend me against them. So I've only been cured of half of my psychosis! :)
dangerics 3 weeks ago
Excellent video, but I think there is one last argument skeptics can give to believers, and this is that many other people "feel" other gods the same way the feel it. At least, they are indistinguishable. So logically, all people that feel gods are right in they conclusion is real or feeling gods is just in our brains.
After this, the only thing the theist can do is ignore the rest of people saying they feel other gods, and that is not very honest and realistic
interlinkknight 3 weeks ago
While I generally agree with the thesis of your video, I think that the skeptic can do one thing: tell the theist about the experiments with the brain and the known psychological effects. In other words, instead of backing off, give them the alternative natural explanations (eg for obe)
and that they have misinterpreted their (very real!!) experience. They will have to deal with this in the long run.
farvision 3 weeks ago
@farvision Were you ever a theist?
mythicalhell 3 weeks ago
Good. Sad.
xorthan 3 weeks ago
by the way, congratulations on being the author of my 100th favorited video. A very prestigious milestone =P
stiimuli 3 weeks ago
@stiimuli rofl
mythicalhell 3 weeks ago
that was one hell of a video! so informative! so glad I subscribed
stiimuli 3 weeks ago
If the theist says their god exists because they feel it, I say it does not because I do not feel it. They do not accept my lack of feeling for evidence of their god's lack of existance, but from there they must comprehend why their feelings are not proof to me.
MsMommaRose 3 weeks ago
I've experienced that sort of "feeling" while being skeptic about it the whole time. It's weird what body chemistry can do for you.
On another occasion I felt the rotation of the planet, but that experience had more to do with jungle juice.
xdassinx 3 weeks ago 4
WOW! That was fascinating! Thanks for uploading!
christallh24 3 weeks ago
I think that "feeling god" is the placebo effect at its best.
paleryder22 3 weeks ago
Perhaps the universe is the monster under the bed and the god that the theist believes in is the parent to run away to and hide with.
Tunnelfish2 3 weeks ago
I wonder if the phantom sense of a presence that children experience as their brains mature is also responsible for children sensing "monsters under the bed" and other night terrors.
goliathprime 3 weeks ago
I've never tried to argue against the personal experience one has had; I don't want to insult anyone. Instead I'd prefer to ask questions about that experience, or related matters. Not to argue against their beliefs usually, but to understand what they feel & believe. Sometimes I really don't want any more than to listen, especially if I know there's no point in arguing.
727Phoenix 3 weeks ago
excellent video. also that picture at 12:57 was creepy as hell...
MobileThinker 3 weeks ago
WLC reminds me of a creepy used car salesman.
Nice video, once they pull the "I feel" card it's game over.
dondude69 3 weeks ago
Badaess bro!
buktomsin 3 weeks ago
I find it very hard to except it because I used to "feel god" since I once believed in god and so forth. Many atheist have said that if jesus came to them, that would convince them. I say NO, that would not convince me. Wouldnt convince me at all. If a voice came into my head, I'd believe I was schizophrenic or something.
jay666KJ 3 weeks ago
How much less credible WLC's testimony sounds with one minor change in the direction of increased accuracy: "... on the basis of the witness of the holy spirit, in my BRAIN."
The familiar, anatomically laughable "heart" distracts the audience from the existence things like neurons, neurotransmitters, etc.
HebaruSan 3 weeks ago
An open question to ANY theist reading this;
Please tell me which neurosensor/receptor you use to 'feel' your imaginary friend? We have 5 different receptor types; thermo,mechanical, pain, photo and chemo. Which is it please? Don't try the bullshit line of 'We just feel Him'. Be specific please. Our sensors pick up types of energy and transmit impulses from these sensors to our brain or spinal cord for interpretation. What 'energy' is god using to 'communicate' with you?
saxmanchiro 3 weeks ago
Loved the monster in the closet anology!
cujomade101 3 weeks ago
there is a cause of everything. this complex universe must also have a cause. this cause is god. why skeptics don't understand this simple logic because THEY DON'T WANT TO UNDERSTAND. it is their FAITH that god do not exist. so strong a faith for the skeptics.
freedomofthought100 3 weeks ago
@freedomofthought100
This is a bullshit argument. If there is an absolute cause for everything, then there MUST be one for your god. If your god can be exception, there is no reason to assume everything else must have a cause. You can't make blanket statements about everything needing a cause and then create an exception. Doesn't work that way!
Happosaism 3 weeks ago
@Happosaism
cause is the event that comes before and effect is the event that comes after the cause.
my dear GOD IS THE FIRST CAUSE of everything. all the other thing are second causes.
why don't you understand this simple thing?.
freedomofthought100 3 weeks ago
@freedomofthought100 How do you know an omniscient timeless being is the first cause for everything? Why not something else entirely?
EBTcraft15 3 weeks ago
@EBTcraft15
something what?
freedomofthought100 3 weeks ago
@freedomofthought100 Hes asking why must your god be the first cause? Why can't it be someone or something that just accidentally started there, it doesn't HAVE to be your god. Its the "God of the gaps" argument. Also have you ever heard of a causality paradox? Family guy did an episode of this beautifully.
foofiter9097 3 weeks ago
@foofiter9097
well from the first cause things started accidentally. that makes sense. something cannot started accidentally from nowhere.
freedomofthought100 3 weeks ago
@freedomofthought100 Sure it can, I see no reason why it cannot, and we have no reason to believe a "god" did anything because we see no evidence of a god or to the fact he did anything if at all, if he did it, there would be tons of evidence to show for it. As to the Causality Paradox, it goes to say the universe was created by something that didn't exist without the big bang happening, and thus the big bang happens when someone is born to create it as in not a god.
foofiter9097 3 weeks ago
@freedomofthought100-something cannot started accidentally from nowhere.
One of the points people have been trying to explain to you is that IF your statement above is true, then God cannot exist. And if it's not true, and something did always exist then it's far more likely something much simpler than a God always existed.
TheNakedAtheist 3 weeks ago
@TheNakedAtheist yet atheism promotes the nonsense of a random boom...
Trelli28 3 weeks ago
@Trelli28 no, not necessarily. that's just where scientific observation has led us. We (as in people) have been able to track the universe's history almost to the beginning, and the "Big Bang" is what we've found evidence of. However, scientists haven't necessarily come to that conclusion, that's just what observations have told them. And its much more than a "random boom", it's the result of some extremely complicated chemistry and physics. You should look into it more and see what you can find
IggyTkO 3 weeks ago
@Trelli28 ok firstly, the bigbang is not a"random boom" and has never said to be by any scienctist. 2nd ,christianity promotes a invisible diety that never reviels itself,has no proof it exists and poofs things into being by magic ,now thats nonsense and a completely silly
mandrillx 3 weeks ago
@freedomofthought100 I don't know! So let's find out and after we have enough evidence ,to proclaim the truth and not simply toss our hands in the air and simply proclaim whatever our imagination can produce is responsible for such an act without a trickle of evidence and truth to support it!
EBTcraft15 3 weeks ago
@freedomofthought100 You keep making assumptions. No one knows if the universe even needs a cause therefore you constantly assuming god is one is false. Why can't you understand this simple point?
Happosaism 3 weeks ago
@freedomofthought100 I understand how simple you are but what caused it? Lack of oxygen at at birth or bad nutrition during your childhood years? Or did your parents fail in a disaterious manner? But the event that happened was in the end your misguided or is it underdeveloped intellect? So many questions and no good answers. In the end I suppose your god might be responsible.
berrywoke 4 days ago
@berrywoke
it is not lack of oxygen nor it is mal nutrition. it is right way of conducting reasoning. theists believe that god is somebody who loves the right and hate wrong. but our experience contradicts this definition. atheists believe that there is no god and universe is created randomly which also contradicts our experience of cause-effect. then what is god? god is the cause of the universe but he neither reward the right nor punish the wrong. he just is there being aloof.
freedomofthought100 4 days ago
@berrywoke
god is the cause of the universe but he neither reward the right nor punish the wrong. he just is there being completely aloof. this definition just fit our daily experience. is not it? man suffers due to his own ignorance. god is not doing anything.
freedomofthought100 4 days ago
@freedomofthought100 First cause? First cause?! FIRST CAUSE???!!!
You must be over 1000 years old if you use that argument!!!!!!!! I want to meet you! I've never met a person over 1000 years old!
"First Cause" was used by the pederasts of the Catholic govt over a 1000 years ago and it was shot to the shit it is by competent thinkers (i.e. anyone over 5 yrs old) without breaking a sweat.
Damn, what books are you reading? Buy a new one, for pity's sake.
First Cause... what a maroon!
Krocotto 3 weeks ago
@Krocotto Yeah, I don't get why everyone likes Aquinas so much.
tacojohn9 3 weeks ago
@tacojohn9 Ah, yes, the inferior mind of Aquinas is still the boon the even more inferior minds that, devoid of any originality themselves, continue to parrot his laughably flawed arguments.
Or have YOU not read a book written since that boob infected human thought?
Krocotto 3 weeks ago
how skeptics dismiss the bible: some knowledge are true and some are false.because bible contain some false knowledge, bible will not be considered as an evidence. this approach can be analogized this way: there is a fruit bucket containing both ripe and rotten fruits. because the bucket contains rotten fruits , the entire bucket should be thrown out of the window. forget about ripe fruits in the bucket.
this is a sheer fallacy of skeptic logic.
freedomofthought100 3 weeks ago
@freedomofthought100 Not the best analogy you used there. I think most people, when their basket is half full of rotten fruit, will not take the chance of biting into a worm because one looks or feels ripe.
But the point of dismissing the bible is sound. If you have a friend who tells you lies half the time, do you not think about everything they tell you and consider if it's reasonable?
You use the same skeptic logic in other areas of your life. Just not religion, or apparently fruit baskets.
tommy605 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@tommy605
you generalize things. If you have a friend who tells you lies half the time,does not mean that he is lying all the time. i hate the lies and not the liar.
I think most people, when their basket is half full of rotten fruit, will not take the chance of biting into a worm because one looks or feels ripe.
again generalizing. half full of rotten fruit. reject the rotten fruit and accept the fresh fruit. just test the fruit honestly.
freedomofthought100 3 weeks ago
@freedomofthought100 What is your method to determine what is false and what is true in the bible?
MrShysterme 3 weeks ago
@MrShysterme
my method is to test whether things are as they are perceived. there existed once a man called christ is a true fact. that he was crucified is a true fact.that he heals people is a true fact.
i just gave you 3 examples of true facts contained in the bible. there may be more true facts. all i want to say is that we should take the truth and reject the false fact.
freedomofthought100 3 weeks ago
@freedomofthought100 Well, the first two are trivial. Many people existed and were killed. The third (healing) is true of many people (doctors). As far as healing from beyond the grave, as Jesus is reported to do, it is strange that it is: 1. so capricious in that he lets SO many children die who pray to him in earnest, 2. it is never really proven (it's some low probability event like a spontaneous remission of cancer), and 3.related to 2 you never see anything astounding like a limb regrow.
MrShysterme 3 weeks ago
@MrShysterme
healing from the grave is a lie. but healing during lifetime is true.
Jesus is dead. he has nothing to do with children praying to him.
only Jesus had the power to spontaneous cure of cancer or regrowth of limb.
i have known many use of herbs in Ayurveda that can do spontaneous cure to many disease.Jesus might know these things.
so the healing part of bible is true. resurrection is false. thus we should find out truth and accept it.
freedomofthought100 3 weeks ago
@freedomofthought100 Ok. I get where you are coming from.