Positive vs Negative Liberty

[antigen4]

totally wrong. What is wrong with people? POSITIVE LIBERTY means being able to shape your own society. It MAY include violence if violence is required to get there. But ultimately is democratic and anti-hegemonic.

[ephekt420]

@antigen4

"Shaping your own society" is the result of the hubris of power/majority, and is historically realized through violence and coercion.

Majority rule, which favors collective over individual freedoms. This, again, entails the exerting the will of an arrogant power class or majority, even violently as you admit, to affect some idealized state.

[antigen4]

totally wrong.

[mu99ins]

That tweaks what's meant by negative & positive liberty. Let's err on the side of small govt. But, govt has to be responsive to the changing circumstances. A govt. during the Civil War has to be different than a peace time govt.. The size a govt is debatable. I don't like the Libertarian bare bones fed. We tried that in 1781. I'm glad of Lincoln's transcontinental railroad, and Eisenhower's highways. And I hate toll roads. We can't just fight al Qaeda within our borders.

[gogogogommmm]

this is a very absolute and philosophical interpretation of the terms negative and positive liberty, and true enough within its scope, however one must remember that these terms are used primarily in political theory, and thus within that scope negative liberty is used to define what the state cannot do, and positive liberty for what the state should do.. its essentially about the liberty of the state/government and not of the individual as this video makes it out to be,

[Pittounikos]

You can decide for yourself friends. Who elected Isaiah Berlin to the position of grand guru of freedom anyway? It was us, oops! You have all done well to fit your intellectual labyrinths into the YouTube box though.

[LisaTiiighe]

you are a dick.

[LastFreedomFighter]

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." Isaac Asimov.

[LeftPolitiko]

horrible. one star. you didn't explain either of these concepts at all. I don't mind if you are opposed to the concept of positive liberty, but all you did was make a silly propaganda video, about the "government" and its "guns" and its "rape rooms" [and the lizards...]

[flostie007]

Positive liberty has in his essence nothing to do with it being forced uppon you, I has to do with you being cappable of thing because of (positive) aspects yourself in contrast with negative freedom wich is you are able to do things because of the absense (negative) of thing that limmit your possibilities.

[coolbreezed]

You have completely mischaracterized the differences between negative and positive liberties.

[falstoffe]

@flostie007 At who's expense? Positive Liberty is fine and grand, but it should not trump or infringe on someone else's negative liberty. And that's the problem. Unable to simply pull "positive liberty" out of their rear end, they must obtain 'empowerment' from some place. Any Somalian warlord can pick up an AK 47 and become 'empowered.' Classical Liberals believe negative liberty of A trumps the positive liberty of B to rob A.

[flostie007]

@falstoffe A somalian warlord having the liberty to pick up a AK 47 is not an instance of positive liberty it is not because of positive aspects of of that somalian that he can pick up a gun it is an aspect of the things outside him he is not limited from the outside to pick u that gun so he has "negatively freedom" to pick that gun up. Being determined from the inside is positive freedom being determined by your own intellect NOT from the outside.

[flostie007]

@falstoffe You have three aspects of determination and freedom in my vision

no determination : total randomness not existing in this universe in my believe

intern determination : positive freedom

extern determination : the lack of it I call negative freedom

[flostie007]

I am afraid you don't get the idea of positive liberty and its value.

[pippa1703]

Is it possible you would be able to further dumb down and get any more wrong the concepts of liberty? Like using smiley faces.  Or maybe dressed up monkeys.

[oneluvpitbull]

Yeah, I am not so sure I would claim to be a liberal...

[todddoom]

I hate Lincoln too. Liberal is usually connected to big government. Like the government is going to be liberal with money or the use of the government. I am confused with the name last true liberal.

[ephekt420]

@todddoom

In literally every other country in the world, "liberal" refers to classical liberalism.

Unfortunately, political history/philosophy education in the US is so laughably inadequate that most voters share your confusion.