You two are mediocres. Your arguments have been debunked. I guess you have the "mental disorder". I'm staggered that even atheists criticize you, wow! That's truly something, you've gotta be really bad.
Maximum facepalm; really. You guys realize you're relying on 19th century scholarship that has been totally debunked, right? How on earth did you make it on NBC?
The Gospels all end differently and aren't consistent regarding who were at his tomb. The "accounts" of Jesus came well after his supposed death, a lot of time passed and was enough to make stuff up.
These guys don't seem to know what they are talking about. None of the Gospels talk about the fall of Jerusalem. Maybe I have the condensed version. It is okay to have different views, but don't act like you are being intellectually honest.
Bahahahaha.... Rook Hawkins is the myth. No education. Lied about translating the Bible from Greek. Lied about his credentials (none). Lied about book deals. Lied about his name (Tom Verrena).
If you want a real laugh, look up the word "rook". One of the main definitions is, "to defraud or deceive by cheating, lying or other dishonest means." LMFAO
Autodidactic? Bahahahahaha! Now he's Good Will Hunting! Taught himself Greek and translated the Bible while working at Orange Julius. ;oP
Josephus was a Jew. The early Christians wanted to keep the idea of Jesus as a representative of the Jews as far away from the Romans as possible. They could not very well say that Josephus a Jewish revolutionary who fought against Rome at one time, was a fan of Jesus. that would create religious consumor resistance.
The Christian author Origen wrote around the year 240. His writings predate both the earliest known manuscripts of the Testimonium and the earliest quotations of the Testimonium by other writers. In his surviving works
Origen fails to mention the Testimonium Flavianum, even though he was clearly familiar with the Antiquities of the Jews, since he mentions the less significant reference by Josephus to Jesus as brother of James, which occurs later in Antiquities of the Jews
and also other passages from Antiquities such as the passage about John the Baptist which occurs in the same chapter as the Testimonium. Furthermore, Origen states that Josephus was "not believing in Jesus as the Christ""he did not accept Jesus as Christ" but the Testimonium declares Jesus to be Christ. Because of these arguments, it could be inferred that the version of Antiquities available to Origen did not mention Jesus at this point at all.
On the other hand, while this argument asserts that Josephus could not have written the Testimonium in its current form, it also demonstrates, according to some scholars, that the version of the Antiquities known to Origen must have written something about Jesus, for otherwise Origen would have no reason to make the claim that Josephus "did not accept Jesus as Christ."
He was not making a Affirmation by personal faith; but this is what I've heard and cross referenced. Louis H. Feldman who's a Jewish Scholar on Antiquities of the Jews, says the mention of the death of James the Brother of "The So Called Christ" Who is the leader of the Church in Jerusalem.
And that qoute of Jesus as " The so called Christ" Has been attributed by most scholars including alot of liberals that outweigh the skeptics as authentic.
As referring to the Gospels written after the Fall of Jerusalem, what Bible history do you know you're a scholar. Delusional scholar maybe,1 Corinthians was written about 53 - 55 A.D or C.E. Most all liberal, and conservative scholars agree with the dating. Anyways this is what Paul says, 1 Corinthians 15:1 "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;"
1Cr 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 1Cr 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 1Cr 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 1Cr 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
1 Corinthians 15: 6 "After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep." 1Cr 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 1Cr 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
1Cr 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 1Cr 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which [was bestowed] upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
Teshimine7. I agree! Rook's credentials include: no college degree or anything else that gives him credibility. Why should we even listen to this guy? There is nothing wrong with not being educated. Education is something that should be available to all; yet, sadly is not. Maybe he couldn't afford it; yet, don't claim to be an expert if you don't have a degree to prove yourself.
It amazes me how you guys think you're soooo knowledgeable about this topic. I mean, a 24 year old, with a high school diploma, is somehow an expert and scholar on biblical knowledge? Rook Hawkins is a much of an expert on this topic as a chicken wing.
Christians are funny, they have their Sabbath on Sunday, the names given to days are all named after other gods, they celebrate the winter solstice(Christmas), Easter, Halloween, and birthdays, and they embalm their dead and bury them in caskets like the ancient Egyptians. Christians are like perfect pagans except that they are willing to kill people who believe their story is a myth. Other than that, they make great pagans..
Hey..funny guy, you were "refuting the claim that Sabbath was a Christian holiday"? When did I say that? Having trouble reading? I would think you would be a little more careful before refuting something that wasn't even said. You actually copied and pasted my statement, but it doesn't seem like you read it. Here, I'll paste it back for you.."they have their Sabbath on SUNDAY". Read it twice, so you don't miss it again. Now, when did I say, "Sabbath was a Christian holiday"? hmmm
"Christians are funny, they have THEIR Sabbath on Sunday."
JUST THERE, you implied that Sabbath was a Christian holiday. If you did NOT assert it, you would not link Sabbath to Christianity (THEIR, i.e, Christian, Sabbath on Sunday.)
You really ought to stop while your behind. Your just embarrassing yourself. If can't stop arguing about something you don't understand, then find someone who can read to help you out.
To correct you, they observe it on SUNday because that is the pagan day of observance. It is the day of the Sun. It is a pagan day, just like Christmas and Easter. How is it that a moron can call someone a retard? If you don't believe me, look it up. Assuming your not a retard. If you are, however, then just continue with your name calling. See where it gets you...
It is like the Bible is baring witness of itself, that it is a myth and is not to be taken literally. Does anyone really believe that the stories and time-lines would have gotten mixed up if it had really happened?
fbbwatcher and others...I can't believe that there are still human beings that believe Jesus was a real person. Don't you think that if he really existed we would have more evidence? Real, documentable, irrefutable evidence? Is it that none of his followers cared enough to save any part of him? And why would he have done the whole virgin birth thing, wasn't that getting kind of old? If it really did happen on the physical plane, then why are there so many biblical contradictions?
I tried making an account at rationalresponders, but for some reason it didn't take because I was going to present a piece of contemporary evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ
These two are jokers. Their argument about Josephus is horrible. It's an argument from silence.
I am very aware of the controversy regarding 18:63 of Antiquities. But CONTEMPORARY scholars favor the idea that 19:63 contains the nucleus of a passage about Jesus that was merely embellished later on. Christ-myth proponents ignore this.
vision, I always enjoy the argument using Josephus and Eusebius as benchmarks. It's like getting the inside scoop on 9/11 from a kid born in 2025. The bible is it's own defense, It's still here and every critic from history still isn't!
Check out 6:30. The gospels must have been written after 70AD because the predict the fall of the temple. It couldn't possibly be a prophecy because propechy is impossible. I love the rational, open mindedness of these people.
I hope you are being sarcastic. You determine a priori that prophesy is impossible and then draw the conclusion, based on you presupposition that the Gospels are pre-70. You call that rational?
Yes, I was being sarcastic. That's what they said. They claim that the gospels must be post 70AD because they predict the temple destruction. There is no room in their minds to even possibly consider that it may actually be a real prophecy that came true.
Rook is not a scholar and is not recogonized by any scholar in the world. Check my profile for resources proving he has no idea what he is talking about.
He doesn't have to know what he is talking about. Human understanding tend to thrive on method as opposed to substance and that is the modus operandi of the Rational Response Squad. My favorite part is where they refer to the "interesting" book written on Luke and Acts being written in the mid-second century. That was priceless.
Within the next 10 years is contemporary? Well then I have a contemporary reference. 1 Corinthians 15:3-7 is a creed that Paul quotes. It dates back to 2-5 years after Jesus.
Paul in the verses 1 Corinthians 15 in quoting from a earlier creed translated from Aramaic that he received from the disciples.Given all Paul's travels ,he could have only received the creed within 5 years of the crucifixion.Most critical scholars agree.
I don't care how "intellectual" you guys make yourself out to be, Jesus Christ is no myth. What about Simon Greenleaf? Also, there's the case that history books don't have any record of Jesus, some of those history books don't have records of other people either. Just because a history book forgets to mention someone doesn't mean they don't exist.
You gusy do not know any history. You know many Christians aren't too good in history that's why you can say such nonsense when Jesus is very much recorded in history by neutral people, by believers and by people who hated Christianity. So you are a freaking illiterate.
Can anyone here help me find something on the Egyptian god Horus that says he had 12 disciples, he had a virgin birth, was crucified, raised three days later etc. So far my research indicates otherwise. I am looking for research from accredited scholars, not a link to a christian or athiest website which contains secondhand information. Thanks for you help.
We cannot escape our presuppositions. All scholars have their presuppositions. No one was there, so no one can say definitively whether or not Christ existed. No one would have written about him while he was alive because he was a traveling preacher, not the leader of an institution. His importance would not have been realized until later.
Hey do you think that Jesus was gay?.......(mythologically speaking, of course). The reason I was asking is cause in those pictures of him, he has some awful purdy lips.
You Rational Responders are great! You guys rock, keep up the good work. Can you imagine if 2000 years from now someone wrote a biography of John F. Kennedy and said he was the first man on the moon? That would be similar to some of the historical discrepancies in the gospels.
I do have one question though: If Jesus was thought by early Xians to have been crucified and ressurected in a spiritual, non-earthly dimension, why would the gospels put his life, execution, and burial on earth?
The mythical idea of God was this creator who delighted in the creation but also delighted in the destruction of His creation that do not do His will. Jesus Christ, you see is the only way your going to get into Heaven. There is no repentance but unto Him. Recieve the spirit from Jesus and go God's way. Don't let Satan fool you atheists no more...
"But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But wherever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the spirit, and where the spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom."
Hmmm, a verse from his own "holy" book? Didn't really answer the question there chummer. Give us proof, without using discredited sources ie. bible, pliny, josepheus, tacitus. If you can do that well maybe we might have something to talk about.
God is always there to answer any question we ask Him but when we doubt or question or demand proof instead of hearing His voice, we do not get the answers. Only Jesus can hear you and save you from God's wrath. Men are to obey or disobey. Jesus gives you the Holy spirit otherwise it is vanity and pride is Satans first sin. God chooses us with Christ. We cannot choose Him.
...To sum up, modern critical methods fail to support the Christ myth theory. It has 'again and again been answered and annihilated by first rank scholars.' In recent years, 'no serous scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary." Michael Grant (historian)
"if we apply to the New Testament, to a criteria as we should apply to other ancient writings containing historical material, we can no more reject Jesus' existence than we can reject the existence of a mass of pagan personages whose reality as historical figures is never questioned....
"you're not a historian either rook... you're a wannabe, what's sad is you read a few authors who agree with your opinion and all of a sudden, you're an expert. a scholar you are not."
exactly, i made this same point on his chat video and he put me on "ignore". He only reads the liberal scholars who agree with him. Furthermore, these "rational" responders seem to have forgotten argumentum a silentio. morons.
What you said about Josephus was interesting, but you needed to clarify how Eusebius comes into the picture. What did he quote and exactly when (and who was Eusebius)? Also, I think many or most scholars believe that Josephus did genuinely mention Jesus, but the early Church probably added their "say" to his account, so that it sounds a bit like a Christian statement of faith.
I would like to know seomthing though. If that is the ONLY way to God's Salvation, then what happens to all the BILLIONS of people who came before Jesus including the Jews? Why wasn't this trinity ever mentioned once in any older scriptures including the Bible itself? isn't it possible that you are reading more into the text than realy was. Isn't it possible that "Son of God" is merely a way to bestow honor on a great servant of God a prophet for example?
The trinity is not mentioned in the bible AT ALL, it is yet another contrived concept, and was presented as the accepted dogma after the 1st Ecumenical Council of Nycaea in 325'ish AD...read about it and you will see where the curent dogma was created.
INvented...noo...agreed as the offical teaching..yes...what the hell do you think the Nicene Creed decreed? The homoousis, trinitarian nature of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and signed by 300+ Xian sect leaders...at the time there were Unitarians, Trinitarinas, Arians, etc, etc teaching...the whole point of Constantine convoking the council was to unify the doctrine...after all is was the 1st Ecumenical Council...
"contrived concept".....The trinity was taught by the majority of early church fathers. i.e. Athanasius. John 1;1 dates back to before CoN and states Christ's divinity. The creed was just to assert this position.
Geee..and what did my post say?...pick up your idiot certification at the door...thank you- come again..(SIIIIIGGGGHHHH)...the whole damn canonized bible dates before 325AD...and EVERY MAJOR XIAN CHURCH points to the Nicene Creed as the basis for the trinitatrian doctrine...PERIOD...it asserted this positon over what-- the price of tea in China?LOL
Actually the trinity concept was create thousands of years prior with a man, woman, and child. These figures as known as Ausar, Aset, and Heru. It was later turned into God, Mary, and Jesus, which later filtered the woman out by adding the Holy Spirit
If Jesus did not exist and the Gospels were written 35-70- A.D. then what does A.D. and B.C. refer to and why did it change time date for the entire world?
A.D. and B.C. refer to the birth of the mythological demi-god of Christianity. Ironically, the actual date could not be determined by the bible since there are so many conflicting passages about when he was born. Regardless, the beginning of this "Age" as referred to in the bible is a reference to the "age" of Pisces. An Astrological reference symbolized by fish. (Like the ones you see on the backs of cars of Christians.)
actually...The gospels prophecy about the fall of jerusalem, they don't speak as though it allready happened. So, they could be written as early as 30-45 A.D., or C.E. or what ever you wish to call it.
Even christian biblical historains put it at 70CE. some (very few) minimalists put it just before when Simon took Jerusalem back from the romans knowing they will get squashed but the common concensus (from both sides) is that it was written when the Jews were getting owned by the Romans in the year 70CE
I have never heard any historian put it as early as 45CE
that is because most even "christian historians" are pushovers. there is no historical reason to believe that they were any later that 45 or 50 at the latest. appeal to majority is a fallacy. majority can be wrong. i am right on this.
So, what was wrong with what I said? What was I "making up" as I went along. Jesus gave a prophecy about the destruction of the temple and jerusalem being destroyed. He wasn't saying hey look what happened, he said, this is what is going to happen. It is a prophecy. If you don't want to believe that he prophecied then fine, but show me where I am wrong first before you tell me I am being dishonest.
For what the law could not do, in that it was WEAK through THE FLESH, GOD sending HIS OWN SON in the LIKENESS of SINFUL FLESH, and FOR SIN, CONDEMNED SIN in the FLESH:
i am talking about the gospels, not acts. and Christ was referring to the temple in Jerusalem. Notice how he says to Peter - not one of these stones will be left standing on one another. Peter asked about the buildings. think before replying.
i dont care what u say 1 day u will find Christ and u will change your prospective on this subject.And let me tell you sumthin tha bible has not changed and never will science books always change and always will because scientist dont know tha truth bowt heaven and Jesus Christ. thats it no arguement no nothing you have nothin on me and you have nothin on my King of Kings and Lord of Lords. His name is Jesus.
Why are you arguing with me?I am a Christian. I believe the Bible is infallible, and the inspired word of the living God. Other people are using you areguing with me to say "look, Christians disagree, the must have it wrong." You are the kind of person that make non-believers see so much "non-unity" in the church.
1 Peter 2:21-23 21For even hereunto were ye called: because CHRIST also SUFFERED for US, leaving US an EXAMPLE, that ye should follow his steps: 22 WHO DID NO SIN, neither was GUILE found in his MOUTH:
the writers were either eye witnesses or were with eye witnesses. so as far as we know, he did say it. and as far as we know he DID exist. people think he might not have existed
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through THE FLESH, GOD sending HIS OWN SON in the LIKENESS of SINFUL FLESH, and FOR SIN, CONDEMNED SIN in THE FLESH:John 3:16 (King James Version) For GOD so LOVED THE WORLD, that he gave HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that WHOSOEVER believeth in him should NOT PERISH, but have EVERLASTING LIFE.
WHO IS GOD'S ONLY BEGOTTEN SON? JESUS CHRIST!John 1:1 (King James Version) In the BEGINNING was THE WORD, and THE WORD was WITH GOD, and THE WORD WAS GOD.
John 1:14 (King James Version) And THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, and DWELT AMONG US, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER,) full of GRACE and TRUTH. In the first verse The WORD WAS GOD, AND THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH THAT MEANS JESUS CHRIST IS THE WORD OF GOD IN THE FLESH.
Gospel of Oz 2:67 "The fool and the headache are one"
Sounds like thought he likes to think of himself as a John 3:16 preacher, hes proberbly more willing to do a Luke 19:27 approach if he thought he could get away with it
Look at all these Christian radicals constantly quoting scripture, and thinking they're accomplishing something by doing so. A text doesn't prove itself. Use your brains.
its only dumbea.. oops... sorry I meant dougbear2004, seems to be the only real troll here. He is acomplishing nothing.
Funy how they quote Psalms 14:1 that non-belivers can do no good. Funny how Bill Gates can donate $30 Billion to charity and somehow no good can come of him.
dougbear, you are just digging a deeper hole for yoursef, you
Gospel of Oz 2:65 "The fool uses circular logic to try and prove itself"
2 Timothy 2:15 (King James Version) STUDY to SHEW thyself APPROVED UNTO GOD, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, RIGHTLY DIVIDING the WORD OF TRUTH..
I do not need your approval as it states in this scripture.
Dont you have better stuff to do? like go killing people who work the sabbath? Doesnt Jesus say in Matthew 5:17-18 that ALL the law must be fulfilled?
Gates: I don't. I'm not somebody who goes to church on a regular basis. The specific elements of Christianity are not something I'm a huge believer in. There's a lot of merit in the moral aspects of religion. I think it can have a very, very positive impact.
HERE'S WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT THE RICH MAN. MONEY I COULD CARELESS ACCEPT FOR NEEDS I do not want anyones money. tv evagelist asking for money to help for the cause for the church is one thing. For personal financial gain that's just plain wrong. alot of Tv evangelists have ruined the church's reputation cause of it.
Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let NOT THE RICH MAN glory in HIS RICHES:
For the sun is no sooner risen with a burning heat, but it withereth the grass, and the flower thereof falleth, and the grace of the fashion of it perisheth: so also shall THE RICH MAN fade away in HIS WAYS.
1 Timothy 6:7 (King James Version) For we BROUGHT NOTHING into THIS WORLD, and it is certain WE can carry NOTHING OUT. WHEN WE ARE BORN WE DID COME INTO THIS WORLD WITH ANYTHING. 1 Timothy 6:8 (King James Version) And HAVING FOOD and RAIMENT let us be therewith content. HAVING FOOD AND CLOTHING WE OUGHT BE CONTENT WITH.
1 Timothy 6:9 (King James Version) But they that will be RICH FALL into TEMPTATION and A SNARE, and into many FOOLISH and HURTFUL LUSTS, which DROWN MEN in DESTRUCTION and PERDITION.
1 Timothy 6:10 (King James Version) For THE LOVE OF MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL : which while some COVETED AFTER , they have ERRED from THE FAITH, and PIERCED themselves through with MANY SORROWS.
Dude, didn't you get the memo? The Epistles to Timothy have been shown to be forgeries. They are not even authentic letters by Paul, let alone the authoritative Word of God.
Jeremiah also owns the liniage of Jesus to David. Somehow in Matthew it claims that Jesus is a decendent of David through Jechoniah and ask yourself why Jeramiah 22 would have a problem with that? (give you a hint: he was cursed to never have offspring)
So much for you backing up your claims that Gates was a christian, you are just making yourself more laughed at. We are talking about a guy "without christ" who donated $30billion to charity, who has resigned from most of his duties from Microsoft to work on charitable causes and yet "he does no good"
Heres another "fool" for you: Thomas Edison, inventor if the light bulb
You are just an ugly little troll who makes outragous claims and cant back it up because you are WRONG.
Death is indeed a fact. Hell is not. Neither is it a fact that the "soul" exists or that it is eternal. And your threat at the end is telling of what motivates you to be a believer -- fear of the eternal damnation with which God is threatening you. You are held captive by a celestial despot. Sucks to be you.
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. satan is the god of this world in which he blinds your mind.
You missed another memo. Paul was not referring to Satan when he spoke of the god of this world. He was referring to Jehovah, the evil demiurge, who was responsible for the curse of The Law. Paul's God was the One True God of the Gnostics. Dude, do some research on your own religion. You are embarassing yourself.
Wrong ignorant.Hell is mentioned in the bible 54 verses times. Jesus Christ actually went to hell and back and has the keys of hell and of death.Acts 2:31
He seeing this before spake of THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST, that HIS SOUL was NOT LEFT IN HELL, neither HIS FLESH did see corruption. NOTICE CHRIST'S SOUL WAS NOT LEFT IN HELL, NEITHER DID HIS FLESH SEE CORRUPTION MEANS HE HAD NO SIN.
Oh, sweet Jesus... You actually have no idea what "fact" means, do you? You think the fact that the Bible says hell and souls exist means that their existence is a fact... And you have the colossal audacity to call me "ignorant"? Look up "fact". Take a moment to let the definition sink in. Then, perhaps, we can talk.
I DO KNOW WHAT FACTS ARE. EVER SEEN THE INVISIBLE GOD, THE ONLY REASON JESUS WAS MADE FLESH.Hebrews 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death HE DESTROY HIM that HAD THE POWER OF DEATH, THAT IS, THE DEVIL;
WHO HAD THE POWER OF DEATH! THE DEVIL. IF YOU ARE WITHOUT CHRIST YOUR LIFE IS VERY UNCERTAIN.
You made a good point. The writting of Hommer talk about Zeus. So dose that mean Zeus is real?? dougbear2004 should worship Zeus. The bible is not evidence for any god.
I AM HE(JESUS CHRIST) that LIVETH, and WAS DEAD; and, behold, I AM ALIVE for evermore, AMEN; and have THE KEYS OF HELL and OF DEATH. SEE JESUS CHRIST HAS THE KEYS OF HELL AND DEATH BECAUSE HE DIED, WAS BURIED DESCEND INTO HELL TOOK THE KEYS AWAY FROM SATANS HOME WHICH IS HELL AND DEATH. GUESS WHAT JESUS WILL DO WITH DEATH AND HELL ONE DAY. SATAN FOR THAT MATTER?
And we know that THE SON OF GOD is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is TRUE, and we are in him that is TRUE, even in HIS SON JESUS CHRIST. This is THE TRUE GOD, and ETERNAL LIFE.
Rook is a deceiver. Read:
JESUS AND THE EYEWITNESSES by, Bauckham;
THE RESURRECTION OF THE SON OF GOD, by N.T. Wright;
REINVENTING JESUS, by J. Komoszewski,
THE JESUS LEGEND, By Paul Eddy and Gregory Boyd;
THE HISTORICAL JESUS, by Habermas;
SHATTERING THE CHRIST MYTH, by Holding;
TRUSTING THE NEW TESTAMENT, by Holding
Pilgrim1411 5 months ago
lol "expert on bible history" This guys knows shit about the bibles history. the historical Jesus most likely existed.
atheistrocker100 6 months ago
You two are mediocres. Your arguments have been debunked. I guess you have the "mental disorder". I'm staggered that even atheists criticize you, wow! That's truly something, you've gotta be really bad.
creationcenterTV 6 months ago
Of course, jesus is myth, don't worry. Because we will die, someday.
1111goodmorning 1 year ago
Maximum facepalm; really. You guys realize you're relying on 19th century scholarship that has been totally debunked, right? How on earth did you make it on NBC?
bossmanham 1 year ago
The Gospels all end differently and aren't consistent regarding who were at his tomb. The "accounts" of Jesus came well after his supposed death, a lot of time passed and was enough to make stuff up.
HybridD91 1 year ago
This video gave me a good laugh. That's all that it's good for.
KPACHNbIBLOOD 1 year ago
These guys don't seem to know what they are talking about. None of the Gospels talk about the fall of Jerusalem. Maybe I have the condensed version. It is okay to have different views, but don't act like you are being intellectually honest.
ronwis34 1 year ago
@ronwis34 Yes yes they do Jesus says it simply in when he is walking through the temple he says that not a single stone will be left on each other.
RingLord3 1 year ago
How's that sopoena coming along brah?
ShaneCawthon 2 years ago
Bahahahaha.... Rook Hawkins is the myth. No education. Lied about translating the Bible from Greek. Lied about his credentials (none). Lied about book deals. Lied about his name (Tom Verrena).
If you want a real laugh, look up the word "rook". One of the main definitions is, "to defraud or deceive by cheating, lying or other dishonest means." LMFAO
Autodidactic? Bahahahahaha! Now he's Good Will Hunting! Taught himself Greek and translated the Bible while working at Orange Julius. ;oP
Capn0bvious 3 years ago
you guys threaten my world view.
LuciusSuperbus 3 years ago
They don't have too. It's all garbage.
Zigguret 3 years ago
Josephus was a Jew. The early Christians wanted to keep the idea of Jesus as a representative of the Jews as far away from the Romans as possible. They could not very well say that Josephus a Jewish revolutionary who fought against Rome at one time, was a fan of Jesus. that would create religious consumor resistance.
LouisPlume 3 years ago
Rook you need to do some more Bible Reading? What kind of history and biblical knowledge do you have?
Zigguret 3 years ago
The Christian author Origen wrote around the year 240. His writings predate both the earliest known manuscripts of the Testimonium and the earliest quotations of the Testimonium by other writers. In his surviving works
Zigguret 3 years ago
Origen fails to mention the Testimonium Flavianum, even though he was clearly familiar with the Antiquities of the Jews, since he mentions the less significant reference by Josephus to Jesus as brother of James, which occurs later in Antiquities of the Jews
Zigguret 3 years ago
and also other passages from Antiquities such as the passage about John the Baptist which occurs in the same chapter as the Testimonium. Furthermore, Origen states that Josephus was "not believing in Jesus as the Christ""he did not accept Jesus as Christ" but the Testimonium declares Jesus to be Christ. Because of these arguments, it could be inferred that the version of Antiquities available to Origen did not mention Jesus at this point at all.
Zigguret 3 years ago
On the other hand, while this argument asserts that Josephus could not have written the Testimonium in its current form, it also demonstrates, according to some scholars, that the version of the Antiquities known to Origen must have written something about Jesus, for otherwise Origen would have no reason to make the claim that Josephus "did not accept Jesus as Christ."
Zigguret 3 years ago
He was not making a Affirmation by personal faith; but this is what I've heard and cross referenced. Louis H. Feldman who's a Jewish Scholar on Antiquities of the Jews, says the mention of the death of James the Brother of "The So Called Christ" Who is the leader of the Church in Jerusalem.
Zigguret 3 years ago
And that qoute of Jesus as " The so called Christ" Has been attributed by most scholars including alot of liberals that outweigh the skeptics as authentic.
Zigguret 3 years ago
As referring to the Gospels written after the Fall of Jerusalem, what Bible history do you know you're a scholar. Delusional scholar maybe,1 Corinthians was written about 53 - 55 A.D or C.E. Most all liberal, and conservative scholars agree with the dating. Anyways this is what Paul says, 1 Corinthians 15:1 "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;"
Zigguret 3 years ago
1Cr 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 1Cr 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 1Cr 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 1Cr 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
Zigguret 3 years ago
1 Corinthians 15: 6 "After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep." 1Cr 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 1Cr 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
Zigguret 3 years ago
1Cr 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 1Cr 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which [was bestowed] upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
Zigguret 3 years ago
Teshimine7. I agree! Rook's credentials include: no college degree or anything else that gives him credibility. Why should we even listen to this guy? There is nothing wrong with not being educated. Education is something that should be available to all; yet, sadly is not. Maybe he couldn't afford it; yet, don't claim to be an expert if you don't have a degree to prove yourself.
Lee8981 3 years ago
It amazes me how you guys think you're soooo knowledgeable about this topic. I mean, a 24 year old, with a high school diploma, is somehow an expert and scholar on biblical knowledge? Rook Hawkins is a much of an expert on this topic as a chicken wing.
Teshimine7 3 years ago
Are you guys sitting close enough together?
gpokriff2 3 years ago
so rook hawkins is the expert on "biblical knowledge"?
you know there's a formal term for that right? its called "exegesis"
migkillertwo 3 years ago
Watch my videos. I refute this guy. Easy accomplishment.
GreekOrthodoxy 3 years ago
Christians are funny, they have their Sabbath on Sunday, the names given to days are all named after other gods, they celebrate the winter solstice(Christmas), Easter, Halloween, and birthdays, and they embalm their dead and bury them in caskets like the ancient Egyptians. Christians are like perfect pagans except that they are willing to kill people who believe their story is a myth. Other than that, they make great pagans..
bilgerburg 3 years ago
Errr...... you may or may not be aware of the fact that the Sabbath is JEWISH.
Retard.
DiMagRocks 3 years ago
lol...that's good. You think the Jews have their Sabbath on Sunday? And I'm the retard? Thanks for the laugh..
bilgerburg 3 years ago
That's
a) What YOU asserted
b) I was refuting the claim that Sabbath was a Christian holiday, not WHEN it was celebrated.
"Christians are funny, they have their Sabbath on SUNDAY" - bilgerburg
Are you really that brain dead?
DiMagRocks 3 years ago
Hey..funny guy, you were "refuting the claim that Sabbath was a Christian holiday"? When did I say that? Having trouble reading? I would think you would be a little more careful before refuting something that wasn't even said. You actually copied and pasted my statement, but it doesn't seem like you read it. Here, I'll paste it back for you.."they have their Sabbath on SUNDAY". Read it twice, so you don't miss it again. Now, when did I say, "Sabbath was a Christian holiday"? hmmm
bilgerburg 3 years ago
"Christians are funny, they have THEIR Sabbath on Sunday."
JUST THERE, you implied that Sabbath was a Christian holiday. If you did NOT assert it, you would not link Sabbath to Christianity (THEIR, i.e, Christian, Sabbath on Sunday.)
DiMagRocks 3 years ago
You really ought to stop while your behind. Your just embarrassing yourself. If can't stop arguing about something you don't understand, then find someone who can read to help you out.
bilgerburg 3 years ago
"You really ought to stop while your behind. Your just embarrassing yourself."
says the retard who thinks christians got the idea of a sabbath from pagans.
migkillertwo 3 years ago
To correct you, they observe it on SUNday because that is the pagan day of observance. It is the day of the Sun. It is a pagan day, just like Christmas and Easter. How is it that a moron can call someone a retard? If you don't believe me, look it up. Assuming your not a retard. If you are, however, then just continue with your name calling. See where it gets you...
bilgerburg 3 years ago
It is like the Bible is baring witness of itself, that it is a myth and is not to be taken literally. Does anyone really believe that the stories and time-lines would have gotten mixed up if it had really happened?
bilgerburg 3 years ago
fbbwatcher and others...I can't believe that there are still human beings that believe Jesus was a real person. Don't you think that if he really existed we would have more evidence? Real, documentable, irrefutable evidence? Is it that none of his followers cared enough to save any part of him? And why would he have done the whole virgin birth thing, wasn't that getting kind of old? If it really did happen on the physical plane, then why are there so many biblical contradictions?
bilgerburg 3 years ago 2
Only an idiot could believe today that Jesus wasn't a historical person - and what do we have here? - TWO IDIOTS!!!!!!
I am shocked that there are still human beings believieng that Jesus never existed - ouh my, this kind of ignorance really hurts!!!!
fbbwatcher 3 years ago
Hehe.... considering their ***extensive*** credentials, one would be surprised that they feel this way.
I feel like clunking their heads together.
DiMagRocks 3 years ago
I tried making an account at rationalresponders, but for some reason it didn't take because I was going to present a piece of contemporary evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ
migkillertwo 3 years ago
These two are jokers. Their argument about Josephus is horrible. It's an argument from silence.
I am very aware of the controversy regarding 18:63 of Antiquities. But CONTEMPORARY scholars favor the idea that 19:63 contains the nucleus of a passage about Jesus that was merely embellished later on. Christ-myth proponents ignore this.
danjoeblue 3 years ago
you two are a pair of ignorant dumb asses , how dare say jesus is a mith .
franciscoquinones211 3 years ago
vision, I always enjoy the argument using Josephus and Eusebius as benchmarks. It's like getting the inside scoop on 9/11 from a kid born in 2025. The bible is it's own defense, It's still here and every critic from history still isn't!
Eph1123 3 years ago
You want contemporaneous eyewitness accounts. Try Matthew, Mark, John, Peter's letters, James and Jude's letter and Paul's
Eph1123 3 years ago
I don`t know if Jesus was a myth.
If he did live and die for his convictions, he
died in vain.
I say this because the present god is a delusion as was all the gods man created before todays god.
If Jesus died for this god delusion, then Jesus believed in a delusion. Thus, he died in vain.
maurieer 3 years ago
Rook iiis talkin out his butt.
sandrajean08 3 years ago
cool guys! keep livin under a rock, livin inside your little buble of fake reality and ignoring the evidence! ;)
LinkD3 3 years ago
"Rook" is a highly specialized expert in ancient history and biblical knowledge? HA HA HA!!!
thorkyll 3 years ago
I loved that highly specialized comment. Bunch of chancers.
fritleyfrisp 3 years ago
Check out 6:30. The gospels must have been written after 70AD because the predict the fall of the temple. It couldn't possibly be a prophecy because propechy is impossible. I love the rational, open mindedness of these people.
fritleyfrisp 3 years ago
fritleyfrisp-
I hope you are being sarcastic. You determine a priori that prophesy is impossible and then draw the conclusion, based on you presupposition that the Gospels are pre-70. You call that rational?
danjoeblue 3 years ago
Yes, I was being sarcastic. That's what they said. They claim that the gospels must be post 70AD because they predict the temple destruction. There is no room in their minds to even possibly consider that it may actually be a real prophecy that came true.
fritleyfrisp 3 years ago
fritleyfrisp -
Thanks. It's good to know where you were coming from. I agree with you whole heartedly.
danjoeblue 3 years ago
what's even more pathetic is that this idea of the temple being destroyed was very common in 1st century palestine.
migkillertwo 3 years ago
Coming to conclusions while asking for people to reference your claims? LOL, that's funny!
RewYnd 3 years ago
watch?v=2aW2N46vf4Q
starting at 5 minutes in, Jesus and his birth gets owned.
Blake97201 3 years ago
ATTN: RRS
Please stop making actual historians/Jesus myth hypothesists/reasonably informed atheists look like morons with your uninformed bullshit.
Hugs and kisses,
the Internets
beullahcountry 3 years ago 6
Isn't 1 Corinthians 15 contemporanious?
The creed was written 2-5 years after Jesus died.
facilisdescenus 3 years ago
1 Corinthians was written no earlier than 50 CE...Jesus supposed crucifiction was around 33 CE...you do the math.
acidgawd999 3 years ago
Rook is not a scholar and is not recogonized by any scholar in the world. Check my profile for resources proving he has no idea what he is talking about.
Psalm130 4 years ago
He doesn't have to know what he is talking about. Human understanding tend to thrive on method as opposed to substance and that is the modus operandi of the Rational Response Squad. My favorite part is where they refer to the "interesting" book written on Luke and Acts being written in the mid-second century. That was priceless.
ministeringinlove 3 years ago
Within the next 10 years is contemporary? Well then I have a contemporary reference. 1 Corinthians 15:3-7 is a creed that Paul quotes. It dates back to 2-5 years after Jesus.
Kabane52 4 years ago
Aww, some people are rating me down because I just completely shattered their claim that there were no contemporary references to Jesus.
Kabane52 3 years ago
2-5 years after Jesus???
Paul wrote c. 50...when was Jesus' supposed crucifiction?
Why did you stop at 1 Corinthians 15:7...ya shouldn't have left out verse 8... "Last of all, as to one born abnormally, he appeared to me."
Referring to Paul's hallucination.
acidgawd999 3 years ago
Paul in the verses 1 Corinthians 15 in quoting from a earlier creed translated from Aramaic that he received from the disciples.Given all Paul's travels ,he could have only received the creed within 5 years of the crucifixion.Most critical scholars agree.
facilisdescenus 3 years ago
even the Jesus seminar accepts that this creed is from before Paul converted. that makes it 3 years after Jesus
migkillertwo 3 years ago 3
rookthehistorian dot blogspot dot com? Ego much?
Kabane52 4 years ago
I don't care how "intellectual" you guys make yourself out to be, Jesus Christ is no myth. What about Simon Greenleaf? Also, there's the case that history books don't have any record of Jesus, some of those history books don't have records of other people either. Just because a history book forgets to mention someone doesn't mean they don't exist.
2corinthians710 4 years ago
Here is the truth.... JESUS IS REAL AND IF U DONT BELIEVE UR GOIN STRAIGHT TO HELL!!!!!!!!!! END OF STORY
ibz11 4 years ago
Are there or were there other myths that caused time to be changed ? If so which ones ? Thanks in advance.
GodForum 4 years ago
These young men are not heeding 1 Cor. 10:12
Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.
trehcrap 4 years ago
Well, I do have a degree in history, and am currently working on a PHD in the field.
MjolnirFlameOfWest 4 years ago
"No, you can just silence idiots who think that they are using reason."
How are they not?
And no, you apparently cannot do that either because ID is still running amuck.
1stoic1 4 years ago
You gusy do not know any history. You know many Christians aren't too good in history that's why you can say such nonsense when Jesus is very much recorded in history by neutral people, by believers and by people who hated Christianity. So you are a freaking illiterate.
okebaram 4 years ago
If u need any resources for you book your writing you should check out the local library
somewhere around the non-fiction or si-fi sections cause your obviously into that kind of stuff..... CHRIST IS LORD!!!!!!
jamesnix 4 years ago
Can anyone here help me find something on the Egyptian god Horus that says he had 12 disciples, he had a virgin birth, was crucified, raised three days later etc. So far my research indicates otherwise. I am looking for research from accredited scholars, not a link to a christian or athiest website which contains secondhand information. Thanks for you help.
captaincrick 4 years ago
We cannot escape our presuppositions. All scholars have their presuppositions. No one was there, so no one can say definitively whether or not Christ existed. No one would have written about him while he was alive because he was a traveling preacher, not the leader of an institution. His importance would not have been realized until later.
82jp 4 years ago
Yeah well, but how does all of this tie into J. R. Bob Dobbs?
chuckfrasher 4 years ago
Hey do you think that Jesus was gay?.......(mythologically speaking, of course). The reason I was asking is cause in those pictures of him, he has some awful purdy lips.
chuckfrasher 4 years ago
hallelujah, praise Bob!
chuckfrasher 4 years ago
Quoting me a passage out of an Iron Age novel is not evidence.
Matt7895 4 years ago
You Rational Responders are great! You guys rock, keep up the good work. Can you imagine if 2000 years from now someone wrote a biography of John F. Kennedy and said he was the first man on the moon? That would be similar to some of the historical discrepancies in the gospels.
I do have one question though: If Jesus was thought by early Xians to have been crucified and ressurected in a spiritual, non-earthly dimension, why would the gospels put his life, execution, and burial on earth?
tekbarrier 4 years ago
You guys are awesome, keep it up!
iv4444444 4 years ago
The mythical idea of God was this creator who delighted in the creation but also delighted in the destruction of His creation that do not do His will. Jesus Christ, you see is the only way your going to get into Heaven. There is no repentance but unto Him. Recieve the spirit from Jesus and go God's way. Don't let Satan fool you atheists no more...
jspeaker1 4 years ago
Satan doesn't exist, so we are not being fooled by him. It is you Christians who are being fooled by this delusion of faith.
Matt7895 4 years ago
Christians conquer Satan by faith in Christ. The only delusion is atheism.
jspeaker1 4 years ago
Of course. Please give me evidence for Satan and for Christ. If you fail to do so, then please desist in calling the non-religious 'deluded'.
Matt7895 4 years ago
"But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But wherever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the spirit, and where the spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom."
2 Corinthians 3:14-17
jspeaker1 4 years ago
Hmmm, a verse from his own "holy" book? Didn't really answer the question there chummer. Give us proof, without using discredited sources ie. bible, pliny, josepheus, tacitus. If you can do that well maybe we might have something to talk about.
MjolnirFlameOfWest 4 years ago
The proof is in the spirit but why should God answer if we test Him?
jspeaker1 4 years ago
Why wouldn't a supposedly perfect being want to answer the questions posed to it, in order to better enlighten mankind?
MjolnirFlameOfWest 4 years ago 2
God is always there to answer any question we ask Him but when we doubt or question or demand proof instead of hearing His voice, we do not get the answers. Only Jesus can hear you and save you from God's wrath. Men are to obey or disobey. Jesus gives you the Holy spirit otherwise it is vanity and pride is Satans first sin. God chooses us with Christ. We cannot choose Him.
jspeaker1 4 years ago
...To sum up, modern critical methods fail to support the Christ myth theory. It has 'again and again been answered and annihilated by first rank scholars.' In recent years, 'no serous scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary." Michael Grant (historian)
Juliocyp 4 years ago
"if we apply to the New Testament, to a criteria as we should apply to other ancient writings containing historical material, we can no more reject Jesus' existence than we can reject the existence of a mass of pagan personages whose reality as historical figures is never questioned....
Juliocyp 4 years ago
"you're not a historian either rook... you're a wannabe, what's sad is you read a few authors who agree with your opinion and all of a sudden, you're an expert. a scholar you are not."
exactly, i made this same point on his chat video and he put me on "ignore". He only reads the liberal scholars who agree with him. Furthermore, these "rational" responders seem to have forgotten argumentum a silentio. morons.
kingnebster 4 years ago
What you said about Josephus was interesting, but you needed to clarify how Eusebius comes into the picture. What did he quote and exactly when (and who was Eusebius)? Also, I think many or most scholars believe that Josephus did genuinely mention Jesus, but the early Church probably added their "say" to his account, so that it sounds a bit like a Christian statement of faith.
psandbergnz 4 years ago
I would like to know seomthing though. If that is the ONLY way to God's Salvation, then what happens to all the BILLIONS of people who came before Jesus including the Jews? Why wasn't this trinity ever mentioned once in any older scriptures including the Bible itself? isn't it possible that you are reading more into the text than realy was. Isn't it possible that "Son of God" is merely a way to bestow honor on a great servant of God a prophet for example?
sigimex 4 years ago
The trinity is not mentioned in the bible AT ALL, it is yet another contrived concept, and was presented as the accepted dogma after the 1st Ecumenical Council of Nycaea in 325'ish AD...read about it and you will see where the curent dogma was created.
gatorbuilt 4 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Ohh..not some other deluded person who believes that the trinity was invented at the council of nicea.
*sigh*
Juliocyp 4 years ago
INvented...noo...agreed as the offical teaching..yes...what the hell do you think the Nicene Creed decreed? The homoousis, trinitarian nature of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and signed by 300+ Xian sect leaders...at the time there were Unitarians, Trinitarinas, Arians, etc, etc teaching...the whole point of Constantine convoking the council was to unify the doctrine...after all is was the 1st Ecumenical Council...
gatorbuilt 4 years ago
"contrived concept".....The trinity was taught by the majority of early church fathers. i.e. Athanasius. John 1;1 dates back to before CoN and states Christ's divinity. The creed was just to assert this position.
Juliocyp 4 years ago
Geee..and what did my post say?...pick up your idiot certification at the door...thank you- come again..(SIIIIIGGGGHHHH)...the whole damn canonized bible dates before 325AD...and EVERY MAJOR XIAN CHURCH points to the Nicene Creed as the basis for the trinitatrian doctrine...PERIOD...it asserted this positon over what-- the price of tea in China?LOL
gatorbuilt 4 years ago
Actually the trinity concept was create thousands of years prior with a man, woman, and child. These figures as known as Ausar, Aset, and Heru. It was later turned into God, Mary, and Jesus, which later filtered the woman out by adding the Holy Spirit
iv4444444 4 years ago
I hear what you are saying I agree with it and I've even got the video advertised on the poster behind you. But why are you dressed like druids?
Steveco 4 years ago
If Jesus did not exist and the Gospels were written 35-70- A.D. then what does A.D. and B.C. refer to and why did it change time date for the entire world?
markiss33 4 years ago
markiss :All civilizations had a way of recording time.The Chinese, Islam , Jews etc, have a different starting point.
Philos2006 4 years ago
"what does A.D. and B.C. "
A.D. and B.C. refer to the birth of the mythological demi-god of Christianity. Ironically, the actual date could not be determined by the bible since there are so many conflicting passages about when he was born. Regardless, the beginning of this "Age" as referred to in the bible is a reference to the "age" of Pisces. An Astrological reference symbolized by fish. (Like the ones you see on the backs of cars of Christians.)
smsavage32 4 years ago
lol.. Christians always try to come back with totally unsupported, non-factual come backs.. that or changes of subject or ramblings about the bible
hybridviruss 4 years ago
Don't worry guys, if you want to form a group against these stupid Humanist fundies then come to me.
chsbcg 4 years ago
Why do you feel the need to form a group against anyone? Why don't you form a group FOR something.
ikonklast29 4 years ago
I have no reason to form a group to support these piss heads. Tell Brian that his girlfriend is a slut and tell him to reply to me!
chsbcg 4 years ago
Did he say the Gospels speak of the actual destruction of Jerusalem.
daome2012 4 years ago
Jesus will have the final say Just wait and see.
dougbear2004 4 years ago
The Gospels written AFTER Jerusalem was destroyed have the "prophecy" of its destruction. Those written before do not have it. Hmmm.
ikonklast29 4 years ago
This video provokes one thing: lol
Jacomus7 4 years ago
Brian Sapient is just a repugnant presence. Get someone who isn't so self-righteous and up his own ass.
ZKiller002 4 years ago
The BuyBull is 100% pure bullshit.
MattShizzle 4 years ago
actually...The gospels prophecy about the fall of jerusalem, they don't speak as though it allready happened. So, they could be written as early as 30-45 A.D., or C.E. or what ever you wish to call it.
rickyboy222 4 years ago
Even christian biblical historains put it at 70CE. some (very few) minimalists put it just before when Simon took Jerusalem back from the romans knowing they will get squashed but the common concensus (from both sides) is that it was written when the Jews were getting owned by the Romans in the year 70CE
I have never heard any historian put it as early as 45CE
ozatheist 4 years ago
that is because most even "christian historians" are pushovers. there is no historical reason to believe that they were any later that 45 or 50 at the latest. appeal to majority is a fallacy. majority can be wrong. i am right on this.
rickyboy222 4 years ago
"The gospels prophecy about the fall of Jerusalem"
Just making it up as you go along. The dishonesty of Christians never ceases to amaze me.
smsavage32 4 years ago
So, what was wrong with what I said? What was I "making up" as I went along. Jesus gave a prophecy about the destruction of the temple and jerusalem being destroyed. He wasn't saying hey look what happened, he said, this is what is going to happen. It is a prophecy. If you don't want to believe that he prophecied then fine, but show me where I am wrong first before you tell me I am being dishonest.
rickyboy222 4 years ago
For what the law could not do, in that it was WEAK through THE FLESH, GOD sending HIS OWN SON in the LIKENESS of SINFUL FLESH, and FOR SIN, CONDEMNED SIN in the FLESH:
dougbear2004 4 years ago
Temple he was talking about was his body.
Acts 2:31
He seeing this before spake of the RESURRECTION OF CHRIST, that HIS SOUL was NOT LEFT in HELL, NEITHER HIS FLESH did SEE CORRUPTION. HE HAD NO SIN
dougbear2004 4 years ago
i am talking about the gospels, not acts. and Christ was referring to the temple in Jerusalem. Notice how he says to Peter - not one of these stones will be left standing on one another. Peter asked about the buildings. think before replying.
rickyboy222 4 years ago
i dont care what u say 1 day u will find Christ and u will change your prospective on this subject.And let me tell you sumthin tha bible has not changed and never will science books always change and always will because scientist dont know tha truth bowt heaven and Jesus Christ. thats it no arguement no nothing you have nothin on me and you have nothin on my King of Kings and Lord of Lords. His name is Jesus.
all4Jesus010 4 years ago
Why are you arguing with me?I am a Christian. I believe the Bible is infallible, and the inspired word of the living God. Other people are using you areguing with me to say "look, Christians disagree, the must have it wrong." You are the kind of person that make non-believers see so much "non-unity" in the church.
rickyboy222 4 years ago
im not arguing with you im arguing with the guy in the video.
all4Jesus010 4 years ago
"i dont care what u say 1 day u will find Christ and u will change your prospective on this subject"
I did find Christ. Then I found out it was mythology. Don't you know that Jesus is just a personification of the sun?
smsavage32 4 years ago
1 Peter 2:21-23 21For even hereunto were ye called: because CHRIST also SUFFERED for US, leaving US an EXAMPLE, that ye should follow his steps: 22 WHO DID NO SIN, neither was GUILE found in his MOUTH:
dougbear2004 4 years ago
23Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
dougbear2004 4 years ago
"Jesus gave a prophecy about the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem being destroyed"
No. The writers of the gospels wrote that. As far as anyone can tell, Jesus never existed.
smsavage32 4 years ago
the writers were either eye witnesses or were with eye witnesses. so as far as we know, he did say it. and as far as we know he DID exist. people think he might not have existed
rickyboy222 4 years ago
Dougbear, you poor, lost soul.
internetsftw 4 years ago
dougbear2004, what makes you think that being made in the likeness of men implies physical likeness?
tothboy01 4 years ago
Jesus Christ was made in the Likeness of men to defeat sin and death.
dougbear2004 4 years ago
Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through THE FLESH, GOD sending HIS OWN SON in the LIKENESS of SINFUL FLESH, and FOR SIN, CONDEMNED SIN in THE FLESH:John 3:16 (King James Version) For GOD so LOVED THE WORLD, that he gave HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that WHOSOEVER believeth in him should NOT PERISH, but have EVERLASTING LIFE.
dougbear2004 4 years ago
WHO IS GOD'S ONLY BEGOTTEN SON? JESUS CHRIST!John 1:1 (King James Version) In the BEGINNING was THE WORD, and THE WORD was WITH GOD, and THE WORD WAS GOD.
John 1:14 (King James Version) And THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, and DWELT AMONG US, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER,) full of GRACE and TRUTH. In the first verse The WORD WAS GOD, AND THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH THAT MEANS JESUS CHRIST IS THE WORD OF GOD IN THE FLESH.
dougbear2004 4 years ago
Ignore this troll
Gospel of Oz 2:67 "The fool and the headache are one"
Sounds like thought he likes to think of himself as a John 3:16 preacher, hes proberbly more willing to do a Luke 19:27 approach if he thought he could get away with it
ozatheist 4 years ago
Look at all these Christian radicals constantly quoting scripture, and thinking they're accomplishing something by doing so. A text doesn't prove itself. Use your brains.
tothboy01 4 years ago
its only dumbea.. oops... sorry I meant dougbear2004, seems to be the only real troll here. He is acomplishing nothing.
Funy how they quote Psalms 14:1 that non-belivers can do no good. Funny how Bill Gates can donate $30 Billion to charity and somehow no good can come of him.
dougbear, you are just digging a deeper hole for yoursef, you
Gospel of Oz 2:65 "The fool uses circular logic to try and prove itself"
ozatheist 4 years ago
TO YOU IT MIGHT BE ACCOMPLISHING NOTHING.
2 Timothy 2:15 (King James Version) STUDY to SHEW thyself APPROVED UNTO GOD, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, RIGHTLY DIVIDING the WORD OF TRUTH..
I do not need your approval as it states in this scripture.
dougbear2004 4 years ago
Dont you have better stuff to do? like go killing people who work the sabbath? Doesnt Jesus say in Matthew 5:17-18 that ALL the law must be fulfilled?
Gospel of Oz 2:66 "the fool will always be"
ozatheist 4 years ago
Proverbs 12:15
The WAY of a FOOL is RIGHT in HIS OWN EYES: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.
dougbear2004 4 years ago
Ive owned you way to many times, Im not going to bother with you any more, your idiocy has bored me
You are totally 100% owned
ozatheist 4 years ago
I am owned by Jesus Christ not you. Satan owns you.
dougbear2004 4 years ago
BILL GATES IS A CHRISTIAN
dougbear2004 4 years ago
Interview with PBS:
Frost: Do you believe in the Sermon on the Mount?
Gates: I don't. I'm not somebody who goes to church on a regular basis. The specific elements of Christianity are not something I'm a huge believer in. There's a lot of merit in the moral aspects of religion. I think it can have a very, very positive impact.
ozatheist 4 years ago
HERE'S WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT THE RICH MAN. MONEY I COULD CARELESS ACCEPT FOR NEEDS I do not want anyones money. tv evagelist asking for money to help for the cause for the church is one thing. For personal financial gain that's just plain wrong. alot of Tv evangelists have ruined the church's reputation cause of it.
dougbear2004 4 years ago
Jeremiah 9:23
Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let NOT THE RICH MAN glory in HIS RICHES:
dougbear2004 4 years ago
Matthew 19:23
Then said JESUS unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That A RICH MAN shall hardly ENTER into the kingdom of HEAVEN.
dougbear2004 4 years ago
James 1:11
For the sun is no sooner risen with a burning heat, but it withereth the grass, and the flower thereof falleth, and the grace of the fashion of it perisheth: so also shall THE RICH MAN fade away in HIS WAYS.
dougbear2004 4 years ago
1 Timothy 6:7 (King James Version) For we BROUGHT NOTHING into THIS WORLD, and it is certain WE can carry NOTHING OUT. WHEN WE ARE BORN WE DID COME INTO THIS WORLD WITH ANYTHING. 1 Timothy 6:8 (King James Version) And HAVING FOOD and RAIMENT let us be therewith content. HAVING FOOD AND CLOTHING WE OUGHT BE CONTENT WITH.
dougbear2004 4 years ago
WE DID NOT* FOR GOT NOT
dougbear2004 4 years ago
1 Timothy 6:9 (King James Version) But they that will be RICH FALL into TEMPTATION and A SNARE, and into many FOOLISH and HURTFUL LUSTS, which DROWN MEN in DESTRUCTION and PERDITION.
1 Timothy 6:10 (King James Version) For THE LOVE OF MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL : which while some COVETED AFTER , they have ERRED from THE FAITH, and PIERCED themselves through with MANY SORROWS.
dougbear2004 4 years ago
Dude, didn't you get the memo? The Epistles to Timothy have been shown to be forgeries. They are not even authentic letters by Paul, let alone the authoritative Word of God.
Klytemnest 4 years ago
These 2 ARE NOT VERY WISE TO SAY JESUS IS A MYTH.
dougbear2004 4 years ago
Jeremiah also owns the liniage of Jesus to David. Somehow in Matthew it claims that Jesus is a decendent of David through Jechoniah and ask yourself why Jeramiah 22 would have a problem with that? (give you a hint: he was cursed to never have offspring)
ozatheist 4 years ago
So much for you backing up your claims that Gates was a christian, you are just making yourself more laughed at. We are talking about a guy "without christ" who donated $30billion to charity, who has resigned from most of his duties from Microsoft to work on charitable causes and yet "he does no good"
Heres another "fool" for you: Thomas Edison, inventor if the light bulb
You are just an ugly little troll who makes outragous claims and cant back it up because you are WRONG.
ozatheist 4 years ago
death is a fact. hell is a fact. soul is eternal. better Listen before it's too late.
dougbear2004 4 years ago
Death is indeed a fact. Hell is not. Neither is it a fact that the "soul" exists or that it is eternal. And your threat at the end is telling of what motivates you to be a believer -- fear of the eternal damnation with which God is threatening you. You are held captive by a celestial despot. Sucks to be you.
Klytemnest 4 years ago
2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. satan is the god of this world in which he blinds your mind.
He knows who the True God is.
dougbear2004 4 years ago
You missed another memo. Paul was not referring to Satan when he spoke of the god of this world. He was referring to Jehovah, the evil demiurge, who was responsible for the curse of The Law. Paul's God was the One True God of the Gnostics. Dude, do some research on your own religion. You are embarassing yourself.
Klytemnest 4 years ago
Wrong ignorant.Hell is mentioned in the bible 54 verses times. Jesus Christ actually went to hell and back and has the keys of hell and of death.Acts 2:31
He seeing this before spake of THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST, that HIS SOUL was NOT LEFT IN HELL, neither HIS FLESH did see corruption. NOTICE CHRIST'S SOUL WAS NOT LEFT IN HELL, NEITHER DID HIS FLESH SEE CORRUPTION MEANS HE HAD NO SIN.
dougbear2004 4 years ago
Oh, sweet Jesus... You actually have no idea what "fact" means, do you? You think the fact that the Bible says hell and souls exist means that their existence is a fact... And you have the colossal audacity to call me "ignorant"? Look up "fact". Take a moment to let the definition sink in. Then, perhaps, we can talk.
Klytemnest 4 years ago
I DO KNOW WHAT FACTS ARE. EVER SEEN THE INVISIBLE GOD, THE ONLY REASON JESUS WAS MADE FLESH.Hebrews 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death HE DESTROY HIM that HAD THE POWER OF DEATH, THAT IS, THE DEVIL;
WHO HAD THE POWER OF DEATH! THE DEVIL. IF YOU ARE WITHOUT CHRIST YOUR LIFE IS VERY UNCERTAIN.
dougbear2004 4 years ago
1 Corinthians 14:38
But if ANY MAN be IGNORANT, let HIM be IGNORANT. STAY IGNORANT. DONT LISTEN.
dougbear2004 4 years ago
You made a good point. The writting of Hommer talk about Zeus. So dose that mean Zeus is real?? dougbear2004 should worship Zeus. The bible is not evidence for any god.
illusionist1977 4 years ago
Revelation 1:18
I AM HE(JESUS CHRIST) that LIVETH, and WAS DEAD; and, behold, I AM ALIVE for evermore, AMEN; and have THE KEYS OF HELL and OF DEATH. SEE JESUS CHRIST HAS THE KEYS OF HELL AND DEATH BECAUSE HE DIED, WAS BURIED DESCEND INTO HELL TOOK THE KEYS AWAY FROM SATANS HOME WHICH IS HELL AND DEATH. GUESS WHAT JESUS WILL DO WITH DEATH AND HELL ONE DAY. SATAN FOR THAT MATTER?
dougbear2004 4 years ago
1 John 5:20
And we know that THE SON OF GOD is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is TRUE, and we are in him that is TRUE, even in HIS SON JESUS CHRIST. This is THE TRUE GOD, and ETERNAL LIFE.
dougbear2004 4 years ago
So how do you reconcile the fact that you are worshiping a personification of the sun.
smsavage32 4 years ago
I smell a troll
ozatheist 4 years ago