Questo si che è un vero lautenwerk, altro che quelli di Keith Hill!
Questo è come un vero liuto che talvolta ricorda pure una tiorba, semplicemente divino! Splendida anche l'interpretazione veramente barocca, col tactus in avanti.
Spero solo che si trovino incisioni su cd con questo strumento...
@ALRAesurrection I don't know if this is by accidental- but this doesn't feel like a lautenwerk à la Silbermann... but rather an Italianesque Cypress cembalo in the guise of a lautenwerk. I like the brusque attack and dry fundamental. I very much agree with you that the general 'tactus in avanti' is compelling. Perhaps not customary pour les clavecinistes- but very normal for les guitarristes! The playing between 2:40 and 3:30 pleases me most.
@Totma11 Gottfried Silbermann was famous for the organs and fortepiani; Zacharias Hildebrandt was famous for the organs and lautenwerk; Johann Christoph Fleischer was famous for the theorbo-cembalo.
The beat placed forward, or tactus in avanti, was the trademark of baroque style, resurrected during the '70s by Koopman.
@ALRAesurrection Yes, we owe Mr. Koopman something for having played a major part in having rescued the baroque from playing all with the imperious exhaustion on the beat school of Leonhardt... or the school afterward in the 80s and 90s which sought greater meaning by playing phrases slightly behind with great rallentandi at the end of each phrase. I hope the next era brings what I prefer.. an unpredictable mix of all... providing the finest psychic dimensionality through contrast.
@Totma11 In several essays from baroque/renaissance is mentioned where and how to place and play the tactus, together with the pendulum that beated an unstable "tempo giusto" (Quantz) faster about the 75% than modern tempi. None of the essays and manuscripts mention rallentando, hesitations, melancholic attitude or romantic artifices. The generations after Koopman added in an arbitrary way what was never indicated by baroque schools, fingering articulation or baroque devices like the pendulum.
@ALRAesurrection I share your love of exploring history, of wondering how it was done, and particularly of reading thoughts long gone. My great hesitation about written sources is that it is impossible to be sure what was written down and what was not... or... whether what was written down has survived. One manuscript such as the treasure trove of Vivaldi's works discovered in a suitcase can entirely change our perceptions.
@Totma11 If you read Der vollkommene Kapellmeister,1739 by J.Mattheson, you will find Stylus Phantasticus as a style of interpretation, matching exactly what Koopman does since 40 years ago. If you check the ornamentation on JG Walther's copies and you imagine it played with a pendulum beating extremely fast yet flexible tempi, you will have a good idea of what Mattheson and Quantz mean and that perfectly coincides with Koopman's style. I trust those sources as they speak undeniable truths.
@ALRAesurrection Like you- I trust those sources and their undeniable truths. What I don't trust is our ability to know precisely what they mean. You know yourself from having lived with a woman just how slippery words can be... even face to face on the same day in the same time in history... with someone whom you have known a long time already... meaning and interpretation thereof is subjective.
@Totma11 Let's say that all those historical essays, manuscripts, sources, scores, proofs, devices (pendulum) etc, PLUS Koopman's extremely convincing way of interpreting them, PLUS my 360 degrees knowledge about every type of artistical expression of ancient times reflected in music, PLUS my natural sixth sense about artistical perception... well all these things are a good enough guarrantee... at least for me, many others and Koopman too, and nothing seems to prove them wrong so far...
@ALRAesurrection I agree that Koopman's playing is persuasive & frequently fascinating. Yet all of my experience tells me that even if your are correct for Bach's performance style- it wouldn't be equally correct for Handel,Weiß,Falckenhagen, and Abel- & that is just in central Germany in that period. I respect greatly your knowledge & intuition- yet, as I am long accustomed to those forceful personalities prepared to declare to me and the world what the total truth of old music was... I doubt.
@Totma11 I totally agree: in fact when Koopman plays Haendel, Fiocco, Picchi, Frescobaldi, or conducts Vivaldi, he does it with a totally different style and affect than how he plays Bach and Buxtehude organ works.
@ALRAesurrection We must give Mr. Koopman a lot of credit... his organ recordings are revolutionary. But there were other artists in the vanguard of Early music thinking 30-40 years ago who were going right down the same track as Ton. In fact: I owned quite a few Koopman clavecin records then as I did Blandine Verlet's entire Francois Couperin. I can tell you that nobody in the world at that time was Blandine's equal for playing unpredictably on the front side or ahead of the beat.
@Totma11 B.Verlet is a player of French baroque repertoire that has be performed with rallentando, legato fingering, hesitations, pauses and long spaces in between the notes.
Each country had its own style and differents schools.
Koopman's style instead is exactly what can be found in Mattheson's essay from 1739, Quantz, JG Walther's manuscript copies of the work of JS Bach (his cousin) and in many other baroque sources and essays.
That is the enormous innovation of Koopman: he was the first.
@Totma11 The only feeling we have from the descriptions of baroque/renaissance way of playing, is like having burning coals under the feet, a very fast tempo giusto that is like having a grizzly bear that hunts the player that tries to run and jump away with a tactus in avanti, in an unstable tempo, staggering and stumbling into groves of intricate decoratio made of arabesques of fast trills and crowns... the exact opposite of the sleepy, dreamy, boring feeling of romantic modern era.
@ALRAesurrection I adore your desription of how you perceive early performance practice. I have no assurance that I am right- all I have is my intuition... and it tells me that what you have stated must have been a central performance tenet. Perhaps we differ a little in that no matter what it was or wasn't- I can't believe that everything was done one way by all without individual exception. In a sailboat from your house to Dubrovnik is a short trip to an entirely different world- even today.
@Totma11 My description of the affect of baroque style, at least of Northern Europe and partially of some places of Italy (Stylus Phantasticus and contrapunct), is only the metaphor of what was the feeling of being chased down by death. That was the main feeling of the men of ancient times and was reflected in their interpretations and affect.
@ALRAesurrection I respectfully disagree that the main feeling of the ancients was 'being chased down by death'. I would agree that this is how we tend to characterize their feelings at this time in history because we can't imagine how they lived without washer machines & surgical procedures. Certainly all humans have morbid feelings to varying extents & one can find many morbid passages in old literature and music. But there are also infinite examples of states of mind without any morbidity.
@Totma11 I said about Northern European Stylus Phantasticus and contrapunct: if you have even the most minimalist perception of Bach and Buxtehude, even if you totally don't understand them, you cannot deny that in their music, especially in praeludia, fuga, chorales, death is like an obsessing theme, death is everywhere in their music. If you don't feel it, now I understand why you cannot be in tune with those composers.
Obviously in French baroque there is 5% death and 95% of galanterie.
@ALRAesurrection Thank you for your clarifications. Defining yourself more specifically is helpful. I freely admit to not totally understanding anything. I already agreed with you that death is a prevalent undercurrent in baroque music... but I hear many many other prevailing themes in their music as well.
@ALRAesurrection Death seems to be a more prevalent undercurrent in the music of Le Grand Siecle than in the galant Louis XV and XVI after.
Although we term those disparate style 'French Baroque' those 2 periods have only language and some instrumentation in common... while the intent and affect of their music is VERY different. L.Couperin to F. Couperin are day and night from each other... not to mention D'Anglebert and Duphly!
@Totma11 In most of Europe we make distinction between early or first Baroque and late, mature or high one.
In France we speak of Baroque and Classic era that actually is what we call late Baroque. Even Dom Bedos organs, that are the best baroque organs of France, are called Classic French organs.
We also know that Louis Couperin is in the early baroque stylus phantasticus way that spreaded from Frescobaldi, passed to Froberger and arrived in France but developed differently with Buxtehude.
@ALRAesurrection I'm glad to see you're making the distinction in French Baroque now... as Louis Couperin is 25% morbid, 30% religious constipation a la Frobergue, 40% rustic branle and 5% Galanterie. But even as lacking in galanterie as his 'French Baroque' is... Both D'Anlgebert and St. Colombe are 'Galanterie free' ... as if such caused high cholesterol!
@Totma11 I understand but St Colombe was not a keyboard composer and Froberger was not a French one... Only D'Anglebert and Louis Couperin were early baroque French composers for keyboards so I think we have to restrict a bit the citations...
@ALRAesurrection After thinking- I would like to divided the French Baroque into 2 periods... Post-Watteau and pre... the pre I would prefer to term 'The Poussin Baroque' ... and the post... 'Watteau Rococco' ... for it seems that Watteau's creations fundamentally shifted how Frenchman went about thinking about their art and it's expression.
@Totma11 To me Francois Couperin is Watteau: pure galant rococò little scenes of daily life of the canvas called human race.
The deepest desperation in St. Colombe, part of D'Anglebert, craziness of Froberger and twisted feelings of Louis Couperin have no match in visual art, although some of their darkest tones can come close to the contrasts of Caravaggio.
On the other hand, the late French baroque of Forqueray, Balbastre and Duphly is closer to the early French baroque than to F.Couperin.
@ALRAesurrection Great analalogy of St. Colombe and Louis Couperin to Caravaggio... and I would add in the same vein... Georges De La Tour genre scenes and Meindert Hobbema's landscapes. For me Duphly is very Fragonard.
@DoktorShiva Nel senso rinascimentale e barocco: la battuta in avanti sul tempo, in pratica senza corrispondere al metronomo moderno (meccanico e sterile) e, allo stesso tempo, senza essere rubato in senso romantico (privo quindi di esitazioni, pause eccessive tra le note e rallentamenti nel corso della fine del fraseggio).
@ALRAesurrection Fantastico! Questa non la sapevo proprio... facendoci caso, effettivamente, rende il tutto ancora più filologico di quanto già non sia.
Fantastica idea quella di far rinascere il lautenwerk, ricordando così il grande costruttore Hilderbrandt cui si deve il magnifico organo di st wenzel a Naumburg e l'intonazione ed il montaggio degli ultimi Silbermann (fra tutti quello della Hofchirke di Dresda). Organaro vissuto all'ombra di Bach ed oggi poco conosciuto al di fuori dalla Germania.
My favourite harpsichord player!!! :--)))
dollerakos 1 month ago
Strumento raro e splendido, esecuzione bellissima, cosa darei per sentirlo dal vivo!
Franky87ish 1 month ago
Bellissimo strumento ed esecuzione, Michele!
bersa888 2 months ago
I'm in love with the player. wow he's sexy hot and brilliant.....
kukunu 3 months ago
Sounds like he put the lute stop on. Harpsichord never sounded so sweet!
fivestander 3 months ago in playlist YouTube Mix for Johann Sebastian Bach
Ammiro non solo il suono di questo strumento ma anche l'esecuzione, piena di buon gusto, fluidità, energia ritmica. Che invidia!
Simpsongolfanelli 6 months ago
bella esperienza sonora,,,suono veramente speciale...
Semicroma1001 8 months ago
Straordinario e viscerale.
Questo si che è un vero lautenwerk, altro che quelli di Keith Hill!
Questo è come un vero liuto che talvolta ricorda pure una tiorba, semplicemente divino! Splendida anche l'interpretazione veramente barocca, col tactus in avanti.
Spero solo che si trovino incisioni su cd con questo strumento...
ALRAesurrection 9 months ago
@ALRAesurrection I don't know if this is by accidental- but this doesn't feel like a lautenwerk à la Silbermann... but rather an Italianesque Cypress cembalo in the guise of a lautenwerk. I like the brusque attack and dry fundamental. I very much agree with you that the general 'tactus in avanti' is compelling. Perhaps not customary pour les clavecinistes- but very normal for les guitarristes! The playing between 2:40 and 3:30 pleases me most.
Totma11 9 months ago
@Totma11 Gottfried Silbermann was famous for the organs and fortepiani; Zacharias Hildebrandt was famous for the organs and lautenwerk; Johann Christoph Fleischer was famous for the theorbo-cembalo.
The beat placed forward, or tactus in avanti, was the trademark of baroque style, resurrected during the '70s by Koopman.
ALRAesurrection 9 months ago
@ALRAesurrection Yes, we owe Mr. Koopman something for having played a major part in having rescued the baroque from playing all with the imperious exhaustion on the beat school of Leonhardt... or the school afterward in the 80s and 90s which sought greater meaning by playing phrases slightly behind with great rallentandi at the end of each phrase. I hope the next era brings what I prefer.. an unpredictable mix of all... providing the finest psychic dimensionality through contrast.
Totma11 9 months ago
@Totma11 In several essays from baroque/renaissance is mentioned where and how to place and play the tactus, together with the pendulum that beated an unstable "tempo giusto" (Quantz) faster about the 75% than modern tempi. None of the essays and manuscripts mention rallentando, hesitations, melancholic attitude or romantic artifices. The generations after Koopman added in an arbitrary way what was never indicated by baroque schools, fingering articulation or baroque devices like the pendulum.
ALRAesurrection 9 months ago
@ALRAesurrection I share your love of exploring history, of wondering how it was done, and particularly of reading thoughts long gone. My great hesitation about written sources is that it is impossible to be sure what was written down and what was not... or... whether what was written down has survived. One manuscript such as the treasure trove of Vivaldi's works discovered in a suitcase can entirely change our perceptions.
Totma11 9 months ago
@Totma11 If you read Der vollkommene Kapellmeister,1739 by J.Mattheson, you will find Stylus Phantasticus as a style of interpretation, matching exactly what Koopman does since 40 years ago. If you check the ornamentation on JG Walther's copies and you imagine it played with a pendulum beating extremely fast yet flexible tempi, you will have a good idea of what Mattheson and Quantz mean and that perfectly coincides with Koopman's style. I trust those sources as they speak undeniable truths.
ALRAesurrection 9 months ago
@ALRAesurrection Like you- I trust those sources and their undeniable truths. What I don't trust is our ability to know precisely what they mean. You know yourself from having lived with a woman just how slippery words can be... even face to face on the same day in the same time in history... with someone whom you have known a long time already... meaning and interpretation thereof is subjective.
Totma11 9 months ago
@Totma11 Let's say that all those historical essays, manuscripts, sources, scores, proofs, devices (pendulum) etc, PLUS Koopman's extremely convincing way of interpreting them, PLUS my 360 degrees knowledge about every type of artistical expression of ancient times reflected in music, PLUS my natural sixth sense about artistical perception... well all these things are a good enough guarrantee... at least for me, many others and Koopman too, and nothing seems to prove them wrong so far...
ALRAesurrection 9 months ago
@ALRAesurrection I agree that Koopman's playing is persuasive & frequently fascinating. Yet all of my experience tells me that even if your are correct for Bach's performance style- it wouldn't be equally correct for Handel,Weiß,Falckenhagen, and Abel- & that is just in central Germany in that period. I respect greatly your knowledge & intuition- yet, as I am long accustomed to those forceful personalities prepared to declare to me and the world what the total truth of old music was... I doubt.
Totma11 9 months ago
@Totma11 I totally agree: in fact when Koopman plays Haendel, Fiocco, Picchi, Frescobaldi, or conducts Vivaldi, he does it with a totally different style and affect than how he plays Bach and Buxtehude organ works.
ALRAesurrection 9 months ago
@ALRAesurrection We must give Mr. Koopman a lot of credit... his organ recordings are revolutionary. But there were other artists in the vanguard of Early music thinking 30-40 years ago who were going right down the same track as Ton. In fact: I owned quite a few Koopman clavecin records then as I did Blandine Verlet's entire Francois Couperin. I can tell you that nobody in the world at that time was Blandine's equal for playing unpredictably on the front side or ahead of the beat.
Totma11 9 months ago
@Totma11 B.Verlet is a player of French baroque repertoire that has be performed with rallentando, legato fingering, hesitations, pauses and long spaces in between the notes.
Each country had its own style and differents schools.
Koopman's style instead is exactly what can be found in Mattheson's essay from 1739, Quantz, JG Walther's manuscript copies of the work of JS Bach (his cousin) and in many other baroque sources and essays.
That is the enormous innovation of Koopman: he was the first.
ALRAesurrection 9 months ago
@Totma11 The only feeling we have from the descriptions of baroque/renaissance way of playing, is like having burning coals under the feet, a very fast tempo giusto that is like having a grizzly bear that hunts the player that tries to run and jump away with a tactus in avanti, in an unstable tempo, staggering and stumbling into groves of intricate decoratio made of arabesques of fast trills and crowns... the exact opposite of the sleepy, dreamy, boring feeling of romantic modern era.
ALRAesurrection 9 months ago
@ALRAesurrection I adore your desription of how you perceive early performance practice. I have no assurance that I am right- all I have is my intuition... and it tells me that what you have stated must have been a central performance tenet. Perhaps we differ a little in that no matter what it was or wasn't- I can't believe that everything was done one way by all without individual exception. In a sailboat from your house to Dubrovnik is a short trip to an entirely different world- even today.
Totma11 9 months ago
@Totma11 My description of the affect of baroque style, at least of Northern Europe and partially of some places of Italy (Stylus Phantasticus and contrapunct), is only the metaphor of what was the feeling of being chased down by death. That was the main feeling of the men of ancient times and was reflected in their interpretations and affect.
ALRAesurrection 9 months ago
@ALRAesurrection I respectfully disagree that the main feeling of the ancients was 'being chased down by death'. I would agree that this is how we tend to characterize their feelings at this time in history because we can't imagine how they lived without washer machines & surgical procedures. Certainly all humans have morbid feelings to varying extents & one can find many morbid passages in old literature and music. But there are also infinite examples of states of mind without any morbidity.
Totma11 9 months ago
@Totma11 I said about Northern European Stylus Phantasticus and contrapunct: if you have even the most minimalist perception of Bach and Buxtehude, even if you totally don't understand them, you cannot deny that in their music, especially in praeludia, fuga, chorales, death is like an obsessing theme, death is everywhere in their music. If you don't feel it, now I understand why you cannot be in tune with those composers.
Obviously in French baroque there is 5% death and 95% of galanterie.
ALRAesurrection 9 months ago
@ALRAesurrection Thank you for your clarifications. Defining yourself more specifically is helpful. I freely admit to not totally understanding anything. I already agreed with you that death is a prevalent undercurrent in baroque music... but I hear many many other prevailing themes in their music as well.
Totma11 9 months ago
@ALRAesurrection Death seems to be a more prevalent undercurrent in the music of Le Grand Siecle than in the galant Louis XV and XVI after.
Although we term those disparate style 'French Baroque' those 2 periods have only language and some instrumentation in common... while the intent and affect of their music is VERY different. L.Couperin to F. Couperin are day and night from each other... not to mention D'Anglebert and Duphly!
Totma11 9 months ago
@Totma11 In most of Europe we make distinction between early or first Baroque and late, mature or high one.
In France we speak of Baroque and Classic era that actually is what we call late Baroque. Even Dom Bedos organs, that are the best baroque organs of France, are called Classic French organs.
We also know that Louis Couperin is in the early baroque stylus phantasticus way that spreaded from Frescobaldi, passed to Froberger and arrived in France but developed differently with Buxtehude.
ALRAesurrection 9 months ago
@ALRAesurrection I'm glad to see you're making the distinction in French Baroque now... as Louis Couperin is 25% morbid, 30% religious constipation a la Frobergue, 40% rustic branle and 5% Galanterie. But even as lacking in galanterie as his 'French Baroque' is... Both D'Anlgebert and St. Colombe are 'Galanterie free' ... as if such caused high cholesterol!
Totma11 9 months ago
@Totma11 I understand but St Colombe was not a keyboard composer and Froberger was not a French one... Only D'Anglebert and Louis Couperin were early baroque French composers for keyboards so I think we have to restrict a bit the citations...
ALRAesurrection 9 months ago
@ALRAesurrection After thinking- I would like to divided the French Baroque into 2 periods... Post-Watteau and pre... the pre I would prefer to term 'The Poussin Baroque' ... and the post... 'Watteau Rococco' ... for it seems that Watteau's creations fundamentally shifted how Frenchman went about thinking about their art and it's expression.
Totma11 9 months ago
@Totma11 To me Francois Couperin is Watteau: pure galant rococò little scenes of daily life of the canvas called human race.
The deepest desperation in St. Colombe, part of D'Anglebert, craziness of Froberger and twisted feelings of Louis Couperin have no match in visual art, although some of their darkest tones can come close to the contrasts of Caravaggio.
On the other hand, the late French baroque of Forqueray, Balbastre and Duphly is closer to the early French baroque than to F.Couperin.
ALRAesurrection 9 months ago
@ALRAesurrection Great analalogy of St. Colombe and Louis Couperin to Caravaggio... and I would add in the same vein... Georges De La Tour genre scenes and Meindert Hobbema's landscapes. For me Duphly is very Fragonard.
Totma11 9 months ago
@Totma11 Maybe Duphly is Fragonard, another very galant way of reproducing a canvas of a dying era of nobility.
ALRAesurrection 9 months ago
@ALRAesurrection Perdonami l'ignoranza... in che senso "col tactus in avanti" ?
DoktorShiva 9 months ago
@DoktorShiva Nel senso rinascimentale e barocco: la battuta in avanti sul tempo, in pratica senza corrispondere al metronomo moderno (meccanico e sterile) e, allo stesso tempo, senza essere rubato in senso romantico (privo quindi di esitazioni, pause eccessive tra le note e rallentamenti nel corso della fine del fraseggio).
ALRAesurrection 9 months ago
@ALRAesurrection Fantastico! Questa non la sapevo proprio... facendoci caso, effettivamente, rende il tutto ancora più filologico di quanto già non sia.
Ti ringrazio!
DoktorShiva 9 months ago
God! This man is a genius!
stsulpice 10 months ago
E ora lo condivido con i miei amici!
Sojue 11 months ago
Fantastico!!!!!! Grazie!!!
Sojue 11 months ago
Musica maiuscola, ottimo strumento, esecutore scrupoloso e regia intelligente: bravi!!!
MB
DrMiBo 1 year ago
Fantastica idea quella di far rinascere il lautenwerk, ricordando così il grande costruttore Hilderbrandt cui si deve il magnifico organo di st wenzel a Naumburg e l'intonazione ed il montaggio degli ultimi Silbermann (fra tutti quello della Hofchirke di Dresda). Organaro vissuto all'ombra di Bach ed oggi poco conosciuto al di fuori dalla Germania.
capitanoachab 1 year ago
One of the most underrated and yet powerful Bach fugues, whether it is played on the violin, harpsichord or the organ.
AZIMUTH595 1 year ago
@AZIMUTH595 or lute
noamboyk 1 year ago