Moral Relativism Discussion J1Militans MilitantTVNetwork

[Hufflewaffle]

Its FAR too simplistic to say murder and rape are 'absolutely wrong' when the words themselves are defined by subjective motivations, attitudes and feelings.

Murder is defined by intent and rape is defined by consent. These are very nebulous psychological attitudes that can never be absolutely proven due to their obvious subjective nature.

Turning morality into a simple good/bad switch is dangerous. We are not robots no matter what some people would like us to think.

[J1Militans]

"if you're wondering why I haven't answered watch my video "Apology"

[ArrowLance]

Yes, there is nothing that makes rape innately evil.

[J1Militans]

I hope you never have daughters, if that's what you really think.

So let's use that example.

If some guy, for the heck of it, rapes your daughter, or your girlfriend/wife... Do you think nothing wrong has been done?

[inkus2000]

Thats gross oversimplification - Im a utilitarian I believe that murder/rape could be justified under certain circumstances. Lets suppose that you had a choice between murdering/raping someone and allowing 10,000 people to die, surely you would pick the first option.

[inkus2000]

If you had a choice between killing your own father and allowing 10,000 people to die then the moral thing to do from my perspective would be to kill your father.

Personally I wouldn't kill my own father - Id probably let the 10,000 die - however this is a selfish and immoral act from my perspective.

[ArrowLance]

I think you are trying to trap me, if I say yes because I don't think he should be allowed to, you say 'haha, see even you agree it is wrong.' But that is not at all what I mean. Just because we punish people for things that damage our society doesn't make those things 'wrong.'

[girzwald3]

Seek medical help.

Rape isnt innately evil? WTF are you talking about, the context of the word is what makes it evil.

[ArrowLance]

You have no clue do you? YOU make it 'evil', evil is relative, as is good. Society calls these things bad, not nature.

[girzwald3]

Go ahead and tell me a situation where rape is good.

Not that there was a good outcome, or that it was for a greater good. But violating a person sexually is a good thing. Especially for the victim.

Because even in one of your utilitarian 1 life vs 10,000 hypothetical situations...something BAD still has to happen.

[ArrowLance]

Saying that they are a victim implies bad, so I can't say anything 'good' happens for the victim.

[girzwald3]

Your silence says it all. Your moral relativism fails.

Some things are innately evil, regardless of what society says about them.

[ArrowLance]

I'm sorry we don't all have internet connection all the time. If I thought rape were good, because I want it, then in that situation for me, rape is good.  Nothing bad happens at all, only good things, my satisfaction.

[girzwald3]

You dont have an internet connection all the time? Thats gata be the most retarded excuse ive ever heard. This is 2009, not 1991.

Sorry, your scenario fails. Because a situation like that is not one sided.

failed

[girzwald3]

And wow, I cant believe you just tried to come up with a situation to defend rape not being innately bad. All just to hold up your flawed beliefs of moral relativism. You are disgusting, seek professional help.

[MrRelys]

Get a basic understanding of Sociology and then come back here.

I'd recommend reading a short essay titled Hernando Washington: Murder and the Sociological Imagination.

It's about a black male from the south side of Chicago, who kidnapped, raped, and murdered a white female on the north side.

If you use sociological imagination, you will see that morals are subjective to the viewer. And what determines morals and ethics in an individual or a group is the society, history, and traditions.

[girzwald3]

That doesn't make morals subjective to the viewer. That makes the viewer wrong or willingly choose to do it anyway for selfish reasons.

He knew it was wrong, he just didn't care. What he wanted was more important to him.

Someone knowing something is wrong doesn't always stop them from doing it. If you think someone knowing something is wrong or illegal or might get them in to trouble will always stop them from doing it, then you are of the greatest of fools.

[ArrowLance]

Your assuming, just because you call it wrong doesn't make it wrong. Tell me what makes it wrong.

[girzwald3]

And just because a society thinks that something is good, doesn't make it so.

The nazi's thought killing the weak was good. Did that make it so?

If all we can say is WE think it was bad, we have no right condemning them because its just our opinion that killing jews was wrong. Just like I have no right to say you are wrong for liking vanilla ice cream.

Now, you arent going to say that killing jews may or may not be ok to do...are you?

[ArrowLance]

In their community it was good.

[girzwald3]

with your view,you cant say that killing jews is wrong. All you can say is,"I think its wrong, but thats just my personal preference"

Which means killing jews is not wrong since someone else can hold the (incorrect) view that its not wrong.

And you have no right to stop someone from doing something merely because you have a different view than them.

So if anything ever bad happens to you; you no longer have the right to complain or seek retribution because their view just differs from yours.

[ArrowLance]

Thats where your wrong, everyone has a right, the global community has a right. Why? Because rights are not something we are born with, but something we defend ourselves with.

[girzwald3]

So basically while you may wax eloquent about how morals and standards are relative and such, none of you moral relativists actually think or live that way. You just like to talk about it because you are pseudo intellectuals.

[ArrowLance]

Actually, I do. Think and live that way.

[girzwald3]

Moral relitivism falls apart when put into practice. Because nobody, not even you truely live that way.

Oh, and don't mark my comments down like a spoiled brat just because you disagree with me.

[girzwald3]

And don't bother responding to me, I wont read your disgusting comments.

I proved you wrong and you take the dispicable route of not condemning rape or killing in any instance done by anyone regardless of what THEY think.

Seek professional help.

[ArrowLance]

Ok so, a few things. You don't put moral relativism into practice, its a truth, not a plan of action. You proved nothing. And I didn't down your comments. Good luck with life, hope everything works out for you.