aburocko, i left a comment in your previous vid but i dont think you read it or replied so ill repeat it again. Mr Oakly claims to know Greek & teaches it so Ahmed Eldin challenged him on the NT IN GREEK. You are comparing this to U a Arabic speaker debating a non-Arabic speaking Indian Muslim in Arabic. Unfortunately you said this imaginary Indian Muslim cant speak Arabic. So how can u compare this senario to Ahmed Eldin and Dr Oakly debating in Greek a language they both profess to understand?
as for dr white, it clear you hero worship him, but lets be frank, dr white is a nothing in the realm of academics, that can't be argued.
for ahmed and in defense of him, his whole thing is to show Dr white doesn't know ancient greek to the level he is selling himself with. and saying he teaches itmeans nothing, bc u could teach arabic at a second rate school there, and we both know you don't know arabic.
Part 4 (sorry, youtube won't let me post it all at once)
Also, have you ever read the Qur'an? It seems like you understand fus-ha Arabic yourself so I invite you to read it to understand *what* we are actually debating here - the true oneness of God (Allah). You will find the comparison of christianity and Islam both in the Quran. Think about it. Are you up to it?
I have read the Quran (and many of the Hadith's)and the Bible my friend. And Islam's understanding of God is far different than that which is understood within Christendom.
Yes, you are right - the way every prophet on earth relayed the message about who Allah is, is far different than how Christians today perceive Him. And this is the core "debate" that we should focus on. Not all of those side issues that have little relevance. I am a former Orthodox Christian, so I fully understand what you believe in. When you read the Qur'an, did you have an open mind to find the truth or did you read it with the intention to disprove other Muslims?
Your question is simply based upon a preconceived notion that all Christian have a closed mind. I am an Iraqi Christian not only do I fully comprehend what the message of the Quran is but I can relate to its custom and traditions. And the more Western society learns about the customs and traditions attached with this way of life the more scrutiny Muslims need to prepare to hear.
I have news for you my friend YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I FULLY BELIEVE!
you keep on mentioning the fact your iraqi, implying u know arabic well, but from my experience of second and third generation arabs living in western countries, their arabic is crap, if not non existent, and when they speak infront of a native speaker, he normally ends up being laughed at, which is wrong, but u get my point.
I've been in the education field for a long time and I know that no one would hire a teacher to teach a language unless he himself is fluent in speaking that language without mispronunciation - even if it's a classical one.
OK, then, what about Ugaritic, Pheonician, Akkadian? These are languages taught in Colleges/Universities. How can they even be taught if teachers who could not fluently speak these languages were not hired?
This just proves my point even more that classical Arabic (fus-ha) is so miraculous and is far above all these other ancient dead languages that no one ever speaks anymore. The qur'an is in fus-ha Arabic and people today can speak, read and write it fluently! Scholars can easily discuss religious works in this language - fluently. Where in the world can you find this clarity and precision other than classical Arabic? It must be a miracle.
Well, you've done two things: 1) You've missed my point. 2) In doing so, you haven't answered my question. Instead, you went on to talk about the "miracle" of the Quran.
note: you have missed her point, u can't speak a language if its dead, fluently, but only attempt to speak it, by reconstructing it. can you sell yourself as something your not? ofcourse you can, and i think many have argued this case for james white.
Sure, many have argued that. But is it true? Can they argue their case successfully? Can YOU?
And I think we both can agree that you can't fluently speak a dead language. Koine is a dead language. Therefore, Ahmed can't speak Koine fluently. And so his challenge to Dr. White is irrational. Furthermore, Ahmed's challenge assumes that the Greek language is in some way immutable without recognizing that the language was in flux.
ok,its ahmed's arguement, not mine, i myself defer, but i do understand the point. maybe he is great at the language, maybe not. but one thing i am convinced by is academic, misrepresenting themselves, i, myself have come across many in the field of arabic, who can't speak, read or write arabic, except to a basic level.
misrepresentation is common in the west, and even encouraged. so if white can be great, but ahmed has a point.
How does Ahmed have a point? Ahmed's challenge was to debate Dr. White in Greek. We all know what Greek is, right? But Ahmed's challenge was to debate "in the Greek OF THE NT." I asked Ahmed if he could make a video of himself speaking in NT Greek for at least a minute; the most would be two minutes. He has ignored my request. But if Ahmed can speak in NT Greek, it wouldn't be hard for him to make a video like that.
Here, I reproduce a comment I made in another video: "There have been many changes in the language since then: words have dropped out of use and MG now have words for concepts not existing prior, certain letters are now indistinguishable, variables in morphology need to be considered as well as the limited use of diacritics, and the lack of rough breathing altogether...
...The word database of the NT is limited, so while "fluency" is theoretical, most academics who teach Koine Greek are still able to teach the language."
firstly, the challenge was to white, not u or me, or my aburock, so u might understand something but in the context that white understands it will be different, if he doesn't speak greek, he speaks ancient greek, then to him greek is ancient greek. taking things out of context seems common place among the fans of james white.
Jpangyarihan, as for ur request, isn't the issue between him n james white, n why do u think its important to recieve ur request, the issue at hand isn't ahmed ability its james whites, ahmed could be crap at it, but he isn't the one benifiting from it, he is just trying to prove the credituals of james white, which we should all do in the west.
as for the fluency of a dead language and ahmed ability to speak it well, was never the question, he claimed to simply speak it, and it was easy enough for him, as a greak speaker, obviously his prose are going to be dramatically different to those of the past n he will not be fluent but will be able to use it for discourse.
I went back and looked at Ahmed's first video response to Dr. White. His response was based on a misunderstanding, and it's clear if you look at it objectively. Whenever Dr. White talked about "the Greek language," he's referring to the Greek of the NT. You MUST remember that context if you're going to understand anything else he says about Muslims mangling or misrepresenting the Greek.
Ultimately, what Dr. White is talking about is the use and UNDERSTANDING of the Greek language in the NT. There is a huge difference between a modern Greek who can read and speak Greek fluently, and an academic or NT apologist who can understand syntax and exegete the text. If you've studied Greek (especially Classical Greek) you'd know that syntax plays a large part in the understanding of the Greek text.
Syntax (the relationship between words or phrases in a specific construction) has a bearing on what a part of a sentence means, whether or not Ahmed agrees with it or not. For example, the Granville Sharp's construction: two substantives or nouns connected by και, where the first substantive is preceded by the article and the second is not. In such a construction, the referent is one person.
look pangyarihan, i really hope this comment was directed at me, bc u a straying from the point. white had a problem with a muslim n his use of greek, that muslim replied n said well i got the translation from a heavy weight, not myself, white has three response, but has done neither as of yet. 1. get his own heavy weight to refer to, 2. claim to be a heavy weight himself, 3. claim that the guys heavy weight isn't one.
james white had a series of debates along with some others, david wood n nabeel qureshi, well some muslim guy, i guess beat one of the two later dudes in the debate, n white didn't like it, so he went upto the muslim dude on a point, n the muslim dude, i guess didn't give him enough attention, so he made a vid to him, then the muslim replied, stating that he got his info from academic resources, which i don't know, but as he said to white, y should i trust u over other qualified people.
Are you talking about Shadid Lewis? BTW, this is my last reply for now. I'll be out of town for a few hours so...if you comment, I won't be able to reply until later. And I don't discuss this with you or even Ahmed in hate or bad blood. I discuss this in love and with the humility of Christ. Regards
oooookkkkkkkkk, thats nice, love for two man, well can i say, i love you too, man. yeah i think his name is shadeed lewis, apparent he went to conference to discuss, why he prefered islam to christianity, the religion of his birth.
it was explained that it was more of a debate, then a discussion, then afterwards, white pulled him up, n then proceeded to make a vid, but yeah s. lewis.
I don't know what the "oooookkkkkkkkk" is for and whether what I said was appreciated, but at any rate--I'm curious as to who the "heavyweight" is that you say Shadid referenced.
look, james white has raised a good point not about muslim but rather himself, does he have any weight in the acadamy? now we both know he isn't a proffessor of greek, or a specialist in the field, but he claims to teach a course on the subject, in a degree which isn't ancient greek. so he has some knowledge of it. but so what. if he has an issue, refer n defer to a relivant source that is the common pratice.
so what? u completely missed the point. i accept he is a professor, n that he teaches greek for a course, but he isnt a specialist, thats not his academic field, do u get it now? i know you think he is god, but others see him as he is, as for what he did, or the role he took, in the bible translation, maybe it had to do more with his field of study, than his greek ability, but thats just a guess, pple are kinda dumb,who knows.
I don't think he is god I would ask you not to make insulting comments like this. It shows you have no understanding of the matter at hand.
Do you realize that his field of study includes knowing the Greek language? imadhurata you need to stop making comments just for the sake of arguing. Think about what the other side is saying and put it to the test.
You can start by reading some of Dr. White's books.
ok, firstly, i see, percieve, that u deify james white, which i know u don't see.
n yes i accept knowing a level of greek is required, for his specialization, but that doesn't make him an authority, specialist or even well versed in the subject. that you have to accept. also you have to accept that his college isn't the highest position in the academy, in his field of study.
2. as for listening to james white, i have done that, i've heard his points, n his arguements, and to be total honest, in terms of islamic science n theology they are illiterate n retarded, he made me laugh, n i even thought to subscibe to his channel just for the laugh. now i'm not being cruel here just honest.
3. so i have no desire to troll throu a book, by james white, for two reasons including the fact that i have a pretty bad impression of the second rate low class professor, first being my reading list at this time is imam shafi's risala n imtaa' wa mu'anisa by abu hiyan al tawheedi, so y would i give up a three course meal at a fine restarant to eat crap in the sewer. secondly i have little to no interest in christain theology, thou i might learn a bit on the subject from him.
why do you think ahmed is a retard, he would have understood the same thing, as you did, as for the debate, if there was a question make on the issue, it would be for white to clear up. anyhow ahmed has made it clear he was talking about ancient greek. anyhow as for the muslims, they claim their knowledge is second hand from sources which have better creditails then white, now we can both agree that white isn't a heavy weight academic, so y should a lameman follow him instead of a heavy weight.
I don't think Ahmed is a retard. But I believe he made a video response to James White without thinking through the reasons for doing so. And actually, James White is a scholar. A scholar can function as an apologist if he/she wants to. Is Ahmed a scholar or an academician?
fine he is a scholar, but isn't a big deal in the acadamy, but he isn't a scholar of greek. his field is something else, which i dont know, which i pressume needs a working knowledge of greek.
on ur last point, does ahmed have to be to make his point. maybe he is in the acadamy, maybe not, being in the acadamy means nothing, even white has to defer when talking off his specialization.
I'm gonna clarify what I mean by "dead language" so that I'm not misunderstood later--Koine is a "dead language" in the sense that you have to learn how to read it; you have to go to school or be taught Koine. I'm sure that Ahmed would not know what the dative case/ι-subscript was if he picked up the NT without learning of it; neither would he know what the infinitive was.
The genitive can function differently in Modern Greek; And again, certain words dropped out of use, and others were replacements. These must be learned. That is what I mean when I say "dead language."
My question to you is, if you met an Indian Muslim professor who *taught fus-ha Arabic* in a college, and you spoke fus-ha Arabic yourself, what is the problem in asking to debate in the original fus-ha language if that's the original language of the text in question? Wouldn't a college professor have the credentials to speak in the language he is teaching in fluently?
Hi aburocko. You have some very good points. Also, thanks for sharing some more detailed history between classical and modern Greek.
Br. Ahmed has a great point though. He is saying he speaks classical Greek and therefore would like to challenge Dr. White in classical Greek. What's wrong with that? You seem to have a problem with it and you brought an analogy about the difference between fus-ha Arabic and modern Arabic.
Ahmed speaks "Classical Greek"? I find that hard to believe. In Modernity, Classical Greek exists as a language to be read. That is why those who study the Classics aim for facility in reading the languages, not necessarily fluency in speaking them. If there are those who are fluent in Classical Greek--and there are probably ones who can--I surmise that it would be a rare thing.
Hi aburocko. Here is virtually the whole of a comment I made on Ahmed's video, which was removed later on, with no replies given: "'You know, I've been pondering over this issue about "debating in Greek," and it seems to me to be a fruitless enterprise. Dr. White can read NT Greek (that's what's really important), and you likewise are able to, and so you should debate--in English--the interpretations and meaning of the Greek Scriptures; THAT should be your challenge.'"
His challenge was intriguing to me, and so I also asked Ahmed whether he could post a one to two minute video of himself speaking only in NT Greek. That comment was likewise removed and no reply was given.
Dont't give reason or excuse for James White not to respond or to take the challange. If James White is right,let the viewers judge.You are being prejudice to Mr Eldin for saying he needs to study more about Greek language. If he is arrogant or ignorant, let the viewers decide via the debete.
Thank you aburocko.
imadhurata: You said that James White isnt a specialist ? are you a specialist ? modesty is not one of your quality !
bekielli 3 years ago
Sorry Imad but I have no idea what your asking here.
aburocko 3 years ago
I don't ask. I said that You are right. I agree with you completely.
kitsohe 3 years ago
I agree with aburocko.
kitsohe 3 years ago
aburocko, i left a comment in your previous vid but i dont think you read it or replied so ill repeat it again. Mr Oakly claims to know Greek & teaches it so Ahmed Eldin challenged him on the NT IN GREEK. You are comparing this to U a Arabic speaker debating a non-Arabic speaking Indian Muslim in Arabic. Unfortunately you said this imaginary Indian Muslim cant speak Arabic. So how can u compare this senario to Ahmed Eldin and Dr Oakly debating in Greek a language they both profess to understand?
isomalt60 3 years ago
I didn't reply because your comments made no cense.
It's the same scenario my friend! Can't you see that? Dr. White is an American and Ahmed is Greek (or at least he claims to be Greek).
I am an Iraqi/American and the "imaginary" Muslim is from India. Can you not see the similarity here?
Did you watch my 1st video to Ahmed?
Have you read any of Dr. White's books on the subject?
Did you know he teaches Greek at the college level?
Do any of these questions mean anything to you?
aburocko 3 years ago
my friend u r just american, and ahmad is greek.
as for dr white, it clear you hero worship him, but lets be frank, dr white is a nothing in the realm of academics, that can't be argued.
for ahmed and in defense of him, his whole thing is to show Dr white doesn't know ancient greek to the level he is selling himself with. and saying he teaches itmeans nothing, bc u could teach arabic at a second rate school there, and we both know you don't know arabic.
imadhurata 3 years ago
Part 4 (sorry, youtube won't let me post it all at once)
Also, have you ever read the Qur'an? It seems like you understand fus-ha Arabic yourself so I invite you to read it to understand *what* we are actually debating here - the true oneness of God (Allah). You will find the comparison of christianity and Islam both in the Quran. Think about it. Are you up to it?
greekmuslimgirl 3 years ago
I have read the Quran (and many of the Hadith's)and the Bible my friend. And Islam's understanding of God is far different than that which is understood within Christendom.
aburocko 3 years ago
Yes, you are right - the way every prophet on earth relayed the message about who Allah is, is far different than how Christians today perceive Him. And this is the core "debate" that we should focus on. Not all of those side issues that have little relevance. I am a former Orthodox Christian, so I fully understand what you believe in. When you read the Qur'an, did you have an open mind to find the truth or did you read it with the intention to disprove other Muslims?
greekmuslimgirl 3 years ago
Your question is simply based upon a preconceived notion that all Christian have a closed mind. I am an Iraqi Christian not only do I fully comprehend what the message of the Quran is but I can relate to its custom and traditions. And the more Western society learns about the customs and traditions attached with this way of life the more scrutiny Muslims need to prepare to hear.
I have news for you my friend YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I FULLY BELIEVE!
aburocko 3 years ago
you keep on mentioning the fact your iraqi, implying u know arabic well, but from my experience of second and third generation arabs living in western countries, their arabic is crap, if not non existent, and when they speak infront of a native speaker, he normally ends up being laughed at, which is wrong, but u get my point.
imadhurata 3 years ago
Part 3
I've been in the education field for a long time and I know that no one would hire a teacher to teach a language unless he himself is fluent in speaking that language without mispronunciation - even if it's a classical one.
greekmuslimgirl 3 years ago
OK, then, what about Ugaritic, Pheonician, Akkadian? These are languages taught in Colleges/Universities. How can they even be taught if teachers who could not fluently speak these languages were not hired?
Jpangyarihan 3 years ago
This just proves my point even more that classical Arabic (fus-ha) is so miraculous and is far above all these other ancient dead languages that no one ever speaks anymore. The qur'an is in fus-ha Arabic and people today can speak, read and write it fluently! Scholars can easily discuss religious works in this language - fluently. Where in the world can you find this clarity and precision other than classical Arabic? It must be a miracle.
greekmuslimgirl 3 years ago
Well, you've done two things: 1) You've missed my point. 2) In doing so, you haven't answered my question. Instead, you went on to talk about the "miracle" of the Quran.
Jpangyarihan 3 years ago
note: you have missed her point, u can't speak a language if its dead, fluently, but only attempt to speak it, by reconstructing it. can you sell yourself as something your not? ofcourse you can, and i think many have argued this case for james white.
imadhurata 3 years ago
Sure, many have argued that. But is it true? Can they argue their case successfully? Can YOU?
And I think we both can agree that you can't fluently speak a dead language. Koine is a dead language. Therefore, Ahmed can't speak Koine fluently. And so his challenge to Dr. White is irrational. Furthermore, Ahmed's challenge assumes that the Greek language is in some way immutable without recognizing that the language was in flux.
Jpangyarihan 3 years ago
ok,its ahmed's arguement, not mine, i myself defer, but i do understand the point. maybe he is great at the language, maybe not. but one thing i am convinced by is academic, misrepresenting themselves, i, myself have come across many in the field of arabic, who can't speak, read or write arabic, except to a basic level.
misrepresentation is common in the west, and even encouraged. so if white can be great, but ahmed has a point.
imadhurata 3 years ago
How does Ahmed have a point? Ahmed's challenge was to debate Dr. White in Greek. We all know what Greek is, right? But Ahmed's challenge was to debate "in the Greek OF THE NT." I asked Ahmed if he could make a video of himself speaking in NT Greek for at least a minute; the most would be two minutes. He has ignored my request. But if Ahmed can speak in NT Greek, it wouldn't be hard for him to make a video like that.
Jpangyarihan 3 years ago
Here, I reproduce a comment I made in another video: "There have been many changes in the language since then: words have dropped out of use and MG now have words for concepts not existing prior, certain letters are now indistinguishable, variables in morphology need to be considered as well as the limited use of diacritics, and the lack of rough breathing altogether...
Jpangyarihan 3 years ago
...The word database of the NT is limited, so while "fluency" is theoretical, most academics who teach Koine Greek are still able to teach the language."
Jpangyarihan 3 years ago
firstly, the challenge was to white, not u or me, or my aburock, so u might understand something but in the context that white understands it will be different, if he doesn't speak greek, he speaks ancient greek, then to him greek is ancient greek. taking things out of context seems common place among the fans of james white.
imadhurata 3 years ago
Jpangyarihan, as for ur request, isn't the issue between him n james white, n why do u think its important to recieve ur request, the issue at hand isn't ahmed ability its james whites, ahmed could be crap at it, but he isn't the one benifiting from it, he is just trying to prove the credituals of james white, which we should all do in the west.
imadhurata 3 years ago
as for the fluency of a dead language and ahmed ability to speak it well, was never the question, he claimed to simply speak it, and it was easy enough for him, as a greak speaker, obviously his prose are going to be dramatically different to those of the past n he will not be fluent but will be able to use it for discourse.
imadhurata 3 years ago
I went back and looked at Ahmed's first video response to Dr. White. His response was based on a misunderstanding, and it's clear if you look at it objectively. Whenever Dr. White talked about "the Greek language," he's referring to the Greek of the NT. You MUST remember that context if you're going to understand anything else he says about Muslims mangling or misrepresenting the Greek.
Jpangyarihan 3 years ago
Ultimately, what Dr. White is talking about is the use and UNDERSTANDING of the Greek language in the NT. There is a huge difference between a modern Greek who can read and speak Greek fluently, and an academic or NT apologist who can understand syntax and exegete the text. If you've studied Greek (especially Classical Greek) you'd know that syntax plays a large part in the understanding of the Greek text.
Jpangyarihan 3 years ago
Syntax (the relationship between words or phrases in a specific construction) has a bearing on what a part of a sentence means, whether or not Ahmed agrees with it or not. For example, the Granville Sharp's construction: two substantives or nouns connected by και, where the first substantive is preceded by the article and the second is not. In such a construction, the referent is one person.
Jpangyarihan 3 years ago
look pangyarihan, i really hope this comment was directed at me, bc u a straying from the point. white had a problem with a muslim n his use of greek, that muslim replied n said well i got the translation from a heavy weight, not myself, white has three response, but has done neither as of yet. 1. get his own heavy weight to refer to, 2. claim to be a heavy weight himself, 3. claim that the guys heavy weight isn't one.
imadhurata 3 years ago
When you say that the Muslim replied and said, "Well, I got the translation from a heavyweight," who are you talking about?
Jpangyarihan 3 years ago
james white had a series of debates along with some others, david wood n nabeel qureshi, well some muslim guy, i guess beat one of the two later dudes in the debate, n white didn't like it, so he went upto the muslim dude on a point, n the muslim dude, i guess didn't give him enough attention, so he made a vid to him, then the muslim replied, stating that he got his info from academic resources, which i don't know, but as he said to white, y should i trust u over other qualified people.
imadhurata 3 years ago
Are you talking about Shadid Lewis? BTW, this is my last reply for now. I'll be out of town for a few hours so...if you comment, I won't be able to reply until later. And I don't discuss this with you or even Ahmed in hate or bad blood. I discuss this in love and with the humility of Christ. Regards
Jpangyarihan 3 years ago
oooookkkkkkkkk, thats nice, love for two man, well can i say, i love you too, man. yeah i think his name is shadeed lewis, apparent he went to conference to discuss, why he prefered islam to christianity, the religion of his birth.
it was explained that it was more of a debate, then a discussion, then afterwards, white pulled him up, n then proceeded to make a vid, but yeah s. lewis.
imadhurata 3 years ago
I don't know what the "oooookkkkkkkkk" is for and whether what I said was appreciated, but at any rate--I'm curious as to who the "heavyweight" is that you say Shadid referenced.
Jpangyarihan 3 years ago
ask shadid, thats not for me, n nor is it my arguement. this is shadid's issue. what i'm saying is any layman goes to an expert.
and we all need to question the creditals of those who claim knowledge or authority.
imadhurata 3 years ago
look, james white has raised a good point not about muslim but rather himself, does he have any weight in the acadamy? now we both know he isn't a proffessor of greek, or a specialist in the field, but he claims to teach a course on the subject, in a degree which isn't ancient greek. so he has some knowledge of it. but so what. if he has an issue, refer n defer to a relivant source that is the common pratice.
imadhurata 3 years ago
He teaches NT Greek, not modern, not classical. When he talks about Greek, he's talking about NT Greek. That's the point.
Jpangyarihan 3 years ago
That is not true. dr. white teaches greek at the college level. He is also a consultant for the n.a.s.b bible traslation.
If any of you guys would just simply pick up some of his books and READ THEM this conversation would be over!
aburocko 3 years ago
so what? u completely missed the point. i accept he is a professor, n that he teaches greek for a course, but he isnt a specialist, thats not his academic field, do u get it now? i know you think he is god, but others see him as he is, as for what he did, or the role he took, in the bible translation, maybe it had to do more with his field of study, than his greek ability, but thats just a guess, pple are kinda dumb,who knows.
imadhurata 3 years ago
I don't think he is god I would ask you not to make insulting comments like this. It shows you have no understanding of the matter at hand.
Do you realize that his field of study includes knowing the Greek language? imadhurata you need to stop making comments just for the sake of arguing. Think about what the other side is saying and put it to the test.
You can start by reading some of Dr. White's books.
aburocko 3 years ago
ok, firstly, i see, percieve, that u deify james white, which i know u don't see.
n yes i accept knowing a level of greek is required, for his specialization, but that doesn't make him an authority, specialist or even well versed in the subject. that you have to accept. also you have to accept that his college isn't the highest position in the academy, in his field of study.
imadhurata 3 years ago
2. as for listening to james white, i have done that, i've heard his points, n his arguements, and to be total honest, in terms of islamic science n theology they are illiterate n retarded, he made me laugh, n i even thought to subscibe to his channel just for the laugh. now i'm not being cruel here just honest.
imadhurata 3 years ago
3. so i have no desire to troll throu a book, by james white, for two reasons including the fact that i have a pretty bad impression of the second rate low class professor, first being my reading list at this time is imam shafi's risala n imtaa' wa mu'anisa by abu hiyan al tawheedi, so y would i give up a three course meal at a fine restarant to eat crap in the sewer. secondly i have little to no interest in christain theology, thou i might learn a bit on the subject from him.
imadhurata 3 years ago
why do you think ahmed is a retard, he would have understood the same thing, as you did, as for the debate, if there was a question make on the issue, it would be for white to clear up. anyhow ahmed has made it clear he was talking about ancient greek. anyhow as for the muslims, they claim their knowledge is second hand from sources which have better creditails then white, now we can both agree that white isn't a heavy weight academic, so y should a lameman follow him instead of a heavy weight.
imadhurata 3 years ago
I don't think Ahmed is a retard. But I believe he made a video response to James White without thinking through the reasons for doing so. And actually, James White is a scholar. A scholar can function as an apologist if he/she wants to. Is Ahmed a scholar or an academician?
Jpangyarihan 3 years ago
fine he is a scholar, but isn't a big deal in the acadamy, but he isn't a scholar of greek. his field is something else, which i dont know, which i pressume needs a working knowledge of greek.
imadhurata 3 years ago
on ur last point, does ahmed have to be to make his point. maybe he is in the acadamy, maybe not, being in the acadamy means nothing, even white has to defer when talking off his specialization.
imadhurata 3 years ago
I'm gonna clarify what I mean by "dead language" so that I'm not misunderstood later--Koine is a "dead language" in the sense that you have to learn how to read it; you have to go to school or be taught Koine. I'm sure that Ahmed would not know what the dative case/ι-subscript was if he picked up the NT without learning of it; neither would he know what the infinitive was.
Jpangyarihan 3 years ago
The genitive can function differently in Modern Greek; And again, certain words dropped out of use, and others were replacements. These must be learned. That is what I mean when I say "dead language."
Jpangyarihan 3 years ago
My question to you is, if you met an Indian Muslim professor who *taught fus-ha Arabic* in a college, and you spoke fus-ha Arabic yourself, what is the problem in asking to debate in the original fus-ha language if that's the original language of the text in question? Wouldn't a college professor have the credentials to speak in the language he is teaching in fluently?
greekmuslimgirl 3 years ago
Part 1:
Hi aburocko. You have some very good points. Also, thanks for sharing some more detailed history between classical and modern Greek.
Br. Ahmed has a great point though. He is saying he speaks classical Greek and therefore would like to challenge Dr. White in classical Greek. What's wrong with that? You seem to have a problem with it and you brought an analogy about the difference between fus-ha Arabic and modern Arabic.
greekmuslimgirl 3 years ago
Ahmed speaks "Classical Greek"? I find that hard to believe. In Modernity, Classical Greek exists as a language to be read. That is why those who study the Classics aim for facility in reading the languages, not necessarily fluency in speaking them. If there are those who are fluent in Classical Greek--and there are probably ones who can--I surmise that it would be a rare thing.
Jpangyarihan 3 years ago
Hi aburocko. Here is virtually the whole of a comment I made on Ahmed's video, which was removed later on, with no replies given: "'You know, I've been pondering over this issue about "debating in Greek," and it seems to me to be a fruitless enterprise. Dr. White can read NT Greek (that's what's really important), and you likewise are able to, and so you should debate--in English--the interpretations and meaning of the Greek Scriptures; THAT should be your challenge.'"
Jpangyarihan 3 years ago
His challenge was intriguing to me, and so I also asked Ahmed whether he could post a one to two minute video of himself speaking only in NT Greek. That comment was likewise removed and no reply was given.
Jpangyarihan 3 years ago
Dont't give reason or excuse for James White not to respond or to take the challange. If James White is right,let the viewers judge.You are being prejudice to Mr Eldin for saying he needs to study more about Greek language. If he is arrogant or ignorant, let the viewers decide via the debete.
getaranjiwaramlee 3 years ago