Daniela Silivas - 1989 Worlds EF - Balance Beam

[intldawn]

Certainly not the most spectacular routine in this competition, but this lady had command of this event that few people could match. Even back in '85 when she was just a pipsqueak.

[serenakicksass]

I forgot her bronze vault in Seoul was a big gift. A gift in two ways, from Shushunova who would have romped away with the gold falling and moving everyone else up a spot including Boginskaya to her default gold, and a gift since Brandy Johnson was really better.

[MTVMANN]

@serenakicksass But Silivas could stick her vaults...or near-stick them. Brandy had too much power and couldn't control the landings.

[LCAmarkymark]

Dudnik was a whole lot better except for her landing...her routine was a 9.9 under the 2000 code of points...difficulty to the max...but Silivas was just great

[johnsonsinc]

Daniela is my coach for gymnastics its amazing to wach her back then

[Marketoromagnolo]

I love Silivas but all her golds in 88 and 89 were completely undeserved

[QueenieQue]

@Marketoromagnolo Excuse me? How in the world could you say that her '88 Olympic medals were undeserved?

[Marketoromagnolo]

@QueenieQue on beam Potorac deserved it, on floor Dudeva and on bars Fanrick

for vault, there is no way she deserved bronze

[QueenieQue]

@Marketoromagnolo Silivas had by far the best compulsory routines, which, combined with her optional and EF performances set her ahead of the pack. She deserved every single one of her medals in '88. I might agree with you that her '89 medal on beam should have gone to Dudnik, or even Bo, but with the scoring system, she was the only one who had a clean routine. She is one of the best all-arounders of all time, in my opinion. You're certainly entitled to your own opinion, but I disagree.

[MTVMANN]

@QueenieQue In NO scoring system should Olesya Dudnik or Yang Bo have won BB Gold for what they did...not what they COULD have done...but that what ended up doing.

[QueenieQue]

@MTVMANN Not necessarily. Look at the recent scoring system: in '07, Li Shanshan got a silver medal at Worlds with a fall! In '08, Cheng Fei got the bronze medal with major wobbles. I'm not saying they certainly would have medalled, but they might have given the extreme difficulty and high level of execution in their routines.

[beckerbombs]

She was overscored and did not deserve the gold here.

[luv4cookie1]

@beckerbombs are you kidding this was packed with diffciutly, double layout which they gave extra credit bc she was right at the end of the beam ( no room for error) and she had a pike back, an original mount, She deserved gold.

[QueenieQue]

Just imagine if we had a beam final today with gymnasts like Silivas, Dudnik, and Bo.

[agators212]

@QueenieQue oh man...that would be a dream...silivas, dudnik, bo (my all time favorite beam worker ever even with all her mistakes), add dobre to that list...i would be in gymnastics heaven

[Hasoginy]

@QueenieQue perhaps plus Kui Yuanyuan and Olga Mostepanova too?

[QueenieQue]

@Hasoginy Well, yes, of course, but I was referring to all the greats from this particular EF, Worlds 1989.

[gymnasticsloverxoxo]

I love Silivas but this gold really should have been Dudnik's.

[vontrappster]

@gymnasticsloverxoxo

Had Dudnik not had that bizarre landing on her DMT and been incapable of hitting 180 in her leaps, perhaps I would agree. There was more than difficulty awarded back then.

[gymnasticsloverxoxo]

@vontrappster Dudnik's routine was not difficult, it was ridiculous. It is a routine that is remembered throughout history, nobody came close to that level of difficulty. She had no lack of flexibility, she did not hit her leaps by choice. Personally it did not bother me as it looked very relaxed and natural, also that was not something they were deducting for at this time. The only error in her routine was the lunge on the dismount.

[faeryquene]

She was so light and airy on up on her toes like Cathy Rigby said-I just love watching Silivas. Even when she made mistakes the overall beauty of her gymnastics was worth the watching.

[ispaht]

Too bad. This should have been Yang Bo's gold. But I like Silivas as well.

[audie83]

She was consistent and had a good landing. I love her, she's my all time fave gymnast. But I think if Yang Bo would have hit her dismount she would have won the gold. Dudnik if she had hit her dismount would still have been in the silver spot, with Dana in bronze. But she deserved the gold because she did her usually great solid routine. :)

[selesqueen]

You think if all had hit Yang Bo would be gold and Dudnik silver? I beg to differ, I think it would have been Dudnik gold and Yang Bo silver. Why you might ask? It is not that I think Yang Bo's routine was any less stunning or incredible then Dudnik's. It is because Dudnik is a Soviet and Yang Bo a Chinese. Do you really see a vere close contest ever going to a Chinese over a Soviet with the judges? I think not.

[audie83]

This wasn't the Olympics and even the Americans had medalled (Johnson's silver on vault) at these Championships. Ma Yanhong won a gold on bars at Worlds several years earlier, and again the Americans had won medals too in EF at Worlds over the years- even a decade before when the Soviet bloc judging was even worse.

[audie83]

You forget this is 1989-the Communist bloc was in it's last death throws and it ended that year. The East Germans certainly won no medals. You'd better believe Yang Bo would have won the gold had she hit her dismount. This isn't like Kui Yuan Yuan at Worlds '97 who had several balance checks during her routine and thus opened the door for the boring Gina Gogean's solid and simple routine. And Bo did win gold when she hit and subsequent competitions.

[audie83]

*at* not *and subsequent*

[audie83]

Again this isn't the Olympics-history has shown that by the 1978 Worlds judges were willing to hand out medals to the Americans and Chinese if they were exceptional-unfortunately like Yang Bo many were brilliant-but inconsistent.

[audie83]

If the judges really wanted to screw up the Chinese-they would have kept them out of Finals. And don't forget-not every judge was a Soviet or from a Soviet satellite country. There was certainly no love lost between the Soviet and Romanian judges either. They gave each other no favors. Ma Yanhong however DID win gold and silver at Worlds. The Americans also won golds in '78, and a bronze medal and continued to medal in EF if they were exceptional. Ma medalled on bars at every Worlds she entered.

[audie83]

Fan Di won the gold on bars. Silivas tied her but with the usual Romanian consistency-she made no mistakes thus she scored a 10.00 as well. The Soviets were in bars finals too-Boginskaya and Strazheva. Bogi fell but Straz received I think a 9.975-and Fan Di went up after her and scored a 10.00. Thus your argument bears no weight. Again-if they really wanted to they could have just kept China out of finals.

[GoBogi]

Dudnik probably would have won because when it's all said and done her difficulty was above and beyond anything that had every been seen and came for years. I wouldn't even say Gutsu had more difficulty than Dudnik when you realize all of her difficult tricks were in combination. Dudnik had an even more difficult routine by 1990 (changed Valdez to Dyamidov). Bo had good form/extension and much better difficulty than Silivas, but it wasn't on Dudnik's level. YangBo > Dudnik only in form.

[WSggs]

Gutsu had way more difficulty than Dudnik.

[GoBogi]

Gutsu had a lot of repeated elements. Gutsu's difficulty is masked because it is in connections that you don't normally think of excessively difficult. Taking your body out of line with the beam is difficult, and Gutsu only did that on her Rulfova. Both of Dudnik's acro series as well as her dismount series does that. Dudnik's routine avoids the repetition rule in newer codes. Dudnik also added more difficultin in 1990.

[GoBogi]

Gutsu's difficulty was very nice, indeed. But most of it was in singular elements. She took very little compositional risk. Keep in mind that she was like 4'6 or so so doing things like a full in off the BB was easy for her and smaller gymnasts like Galieva and Miller.

Dudnik took compositional risks above and beyond pretty much every gymnast up until maybe around the 2001 timeframe when twisting elements on the beam started becomming very common.

[WSggs]

If I'm not terribly mistaken a standing full is marked higher than a flip flop full. What Dudnik had over Gutsu is an aerial cartwheel which is very hard; especially when you add two layouts on it. But every other element Gutsu had was harder; standing full, Rulfova, and her incredible dismount.

In the end I think it may just even out, but I would have to think the edge goes to Gutsu, unless I'm mistaken. But both are great. Dudnik was a much better beam worker though.

[GoBogi]

Do yo know anything of gymnastics? There are hardly any gymnast that have attempted a ROUND OFF-FULL acro series, because the round-off takes you out of line with the beam. A standing full is easier if you are small enough to rotate it. Would you also argue that a standing Arabian is harder than a ROUND-OFF Arabian which requires you to twist in both elements? That is what I mean when I say that her difficulty is masked. Gutsu tumbled straight into her dismount, no round-off in the series.

[GoBogi]

I should also note that most gymnasts who did a full-in dismount either did it out of a round off or out off two-three flip-flops (dawes did 2 2-footed flip flops into her). Doing roundoff-2 foot flip flop is hard in a dismount pass. That's also why Carly Patterson's dismount series was so AWESOME. And yea, Gutsu doesn't really hold a candle to Dudnik.

[WSggs]

Sorry I dared to think your precious Dudnik isn't some saint.

Sheesh.

[GoBogi]

I don't even know her, and care care less about her. I am judging the quality of the routines, not the gymnasts' character.  Silivas' difficulty on almost all events had began to leave her behind in 1989. Bogi made her look bad on FX at the 89 Euros in terms of difficulty, and she was on the the same level as the top Soviet and CHN gymnasts on BB and UB (Strazheva and Fan DI). She was gifted based on reputation, and of course benefitted from mistakes made.

[GoBogi]

Errr. Wasn't on the same level.

Even Aurelia Dobre was scoring 9.95s for routines with more than one balance break, so she wasn't the only overscored gymnast (Bogi got a 10 on UB with a scrappy dismount, and of course Dudnik's 10 with a step in TF but hte judges kinda pinned themselves in a corner with the scoring). The scoring in 1989 was horrible. Congrats to Daniella on her BB gold. I am not arguing the results.

[WSggs]

OMG. We agree! Huzzah.

I absolutely agree that the judges pinned themselves giving out ridiculous scores where they didn't belong. Silivas got plenty of this on vault, sometimes beam. Bogi got hers too though. ;)

[WSggs]

What on EARTH are you talking about?

The '89 Euros in the AA you're right. Bogi had more. But she DIDN'T in the EF. And she didn't at the worlds. Even the commentators say so.

And don't even get me started on reputation gifts, Bogi is the queen of that. Almost as bad as Khorkina.

[GoBogi]

Yea cause Daniella deserved a 9.9+ on BB with an obvious break and a slide on the dismount? Or her VT scores? She deserved gold on UB?  Daniella only looks less gifted than Boginskaya because her career was much shorter. Same for Khorkina. Anything else?

[GoBogi]

BTW, Silivas has watered down by the time worlds came around too...

[WSggs]

I don't debate it. ;]

[audie83]

She HAD to 'water down'. Her routines were still worth a 10.00 under that code. She had a knee injury by that point and had surgery on that knee after Worlds. It ended her career along with the revolution. It was valiant of her to do what she did at Worlds-and she did a great job but go ahead and belittle her achievements all you want if it makes you feel better. You have a right to your views as well as anyone else. She still has 3 golds and a silver and there's nothing you can do but gripe.

[MTVMANN]

@audie83 What did she water down? I can only see that she took a release move off of the UB.

[WSggs]

LOL.

You're funny.

Boginskaya is the most over-rated gymnast in the history of the sport. Even when she emerged on the scene in '87 she never had top difficulty. She was washed up by '92 and didn't have a prayer for an individual medal of any color.

Silivas was gifted on vault, yes. But Bogi always was on BB and UB, and floor many times.

That is all.

Over and out.

[GoBogi]

Boginskaya was throwing a double double in 1986 and Silivas still couldn't land it without stumbling forward in 1988... Oh, and her score for that routine? 1992 is another story, we'll leave that for another video. Cause we all know Milo deserved a 9.9754 for her VT in the AA (same score as Miller, but wiht about .2 in form deductions that weren't taken). SIlivas had a 3-4 year career as a senior. Boginskaya has a 9-10 year career... Silivas was gifted on what she needed to win many times.

[WSggs]

Silivas only had a year to learn her double double, she was dealing with a growth spurt at the same time so to even land it is pretty remarkable. I haven't watched much of Milo's AA in '92 so we'll leave that debate for later.

[GoBogi]

"Silivas only had a year to learn her double double, she was dealing with a growth spurt at the same time so to even land it is pretty remarkable. I haven't watched much of Milo's AA in '92 so we'll leave that debate for later."

No one told her to throw it if she couldn't consistently land it. No one cares how long she trained it. We care about what she presented during the competition.

[WSggs]

Aight, quick, you have a year to learn a double double. (actually less than that)

And all I care about is what you present during the competition.

...What a dumb argument.

The training was the most important process, it's what kept the USSR on top for so long(and the fact they sucked the talent from Ukraine).

Obviously if she couldn't consistently land it, she wouldn't have done it. 1 step doesn't mean she couldn't do it.

[GoBogi]

Boginskaya trained her double double in podium training in Seoul. She wasn't in hithit with it, so she took it out for optionals (i.e. her difficulty would have been much higher had she thrown and landed it). Silivas shouldn't have thrown that double double if she coulnd't hit it consistently. Boginskaya probably would have lost her Bronze by throwing it in that AA, but she did what she needed to do. Judges only care if you can hit it on the podium. She prolly won the 89 AA in pod training.

[WSggs]

I never said the judges take past training into consideration when scoring a routine. I just said it was respectable Silivas could land it as well as she did considering the conditions. Anyways, I'm over arguing. What happened, happened. I still maintain that Silivas should have won in '88. And that she would have(most likely) beat Bogi in '89. She did outscore her(injury and all) in the TF. And would have done-so if Bogi hadn't fallen. Or it would have been really close. But cheers to Bogi. :3

[PhillyGal4Ever]

Like most gymnasts who attempt a move for the first time in competition-it didn't go exactly to plan. BUT Silivas didn't exactly bomb the double double either-she had to lunge to the side but she did not do a face plant. And the rest of the routine went smoothly.  The judges rewarded her for her daring and rightly so. It was the Olympics and it was a gutsy move to attempt. And her valiant attempt means that today that move is called the Silivas in the COP.

[PhillyGal4Ever]

I'm pretty certain her coaches would not have allowed her to attempt the double double if it was not consistent-she landed it perfectly in the warmup so why not try it? She's a champion with a champions heart-that's what champions do-they go for it.

[PhillyGal4Ever]

Silivas only through the double double once in competition-in the Olympic Team Final no less. She showed courage to throw it all-that move was rare especially for women-I think only a handful had tried it at that point. Silivas was the only one to throw it at the Olympics-not Bogi, not Shushu not anyone. Yes she took a step but she landed on her feet and that in itself was a huge accomplishment especially under Olympic pressure-when scores carried over into the AA.

[PhillyGal4Ever]

I meant 'threw' not 'through'! Ugh!

[PhillyGal4Ever]

To continue: In 88 Bogi ended her FX with a double twist-and many feel she was gifted with a medal over the Bulgarians with such a basic for the day tumbling pass. It's all relative. BOTH the Soviet and Romanian gymnasts benefited by virtue of competing under the right team-the one with the political muscle in the sport. But it cannot be denied that both Bogi and Silivas were amongst the best overall of their day-and deserved most of their medals.

[lambielkwanfan]

@WSggs Boginskaya is not always overscored. She deserved many of her titles and medals. It is not like the judges were ever showering her with titles. Even at these Worlds where she won her only AA title she failed to medal on vaulting, bars, or beam. She never won more than one event gold at a Worlds or Olympics and in fact almost never more than one individual event medal. And dont forget she was clearly robbed of the 91 World AA title which was unfairly awarded to home country girl Kim.

[WSggs]

.....You know, you're really quite rude.

[GoBogi]

Also, I mean DUDNIK's DIFFICULTY IS MASKED. Not Gutsu's.

[WSggs]

I think in the end, if all hit like they were capable of, under the '89 COP it would have been a three way tie for gold. Silivas' routine still had good difficulty but it was lacking a bit. Her routine was certainly one of the most difficult in the 88 Olympics. But the level of difficulty always shoots up after an Olympics to make way for the next level of gymnasts. Potorac was really the lucky on here.

[GoBogi]

Silivas routine was not good difficulty compared to Yang Bo and Dudnik. Dudnik and Yang had great difficulty, but Dudnik seemed to be a more confident beam worker (no beam searching, and hardly any pauses). It's a hard decision though. I'm a sucker for flexibility and Yang Bo had enough of that to pass around to the whole stadium!

[Salpy17]

Just for the record, she won the gold here with a 9.95. Olesya Dudnik won the silver, and Gabriela Potorac won the bronze.

[can1052]

I don't understand the scoring system back then. How could she get a 9.95 when she had a pretty obvious balance check AND a hop on the dismount?

[Salpy17]

It was all based on comparisons, but, yes, the scores were all way too high. It was too difficult to decipher the good from the great. That's why all the changes took place.

[espinaca79]

You are right. It was very based on reputation and favoritism. I LOOOOVE Silivas

but it's clear to all that her routine was not the best one in 1989.

[audie83]

Her mistakes were minor compared to Dudnik's heavy landing on her triple twist dismount-and Yang Bo's at least 4 or 5 runs forward on HER dismount (and she still managed a 9.80). Silivas' score was very fair in comparison.

[can1052]

I'm not saying she didn't deserve to win, it just seems like at the end of each routine they just come up with a score. Like there is no set deduction for a wobble, or a step on the dismount etc.

[audie83]

I have to agree with you there-and the '80's was unfortunately the age of the auto-tens. Routines with obvious mistakes scored tens. :/

[mistybabe5489]

back then they had bonus scores that were added after deductions were taken. so many of the tens given out in the 80's and 90's were not rue tens