Defence fears over independent Scotland 11.01.12

[Oder1001]

the ship building industry in Scotland has shrank to a shadow of its former self and will continue to do so under the Westminster government, Menzies Campbell like all unionist can not put the positive case for union, The noise making unionists for years have watched Scotland turned from an industrialised country to an agricultural based country,we have gone backwards under union not forward the true legacy of Westminster, noise making unionists need a better story than the tripe they use now

[katoyushiromitsu]

@Oder1001 This is ridiculous, half the dam marines are Scottish, half the army are Scottish, you have bases, ship yards, airports not flying the English flag, BUT THE British flag...

The united kingdom as as much of Scotland as it is England. If you leave the UK your ship building industry will be non existent. Your engineering companies will move down south, more so Scotlands, power, influence and importance on a global scale would diminish into nothing.

[YARROWS9]

@katoyushiromitsu Here here mate i'm Scottish and proud but also British and proud.Forward as one.Salmond just wants everyone in Scotland to buy into his anti Englishness.No way at the stroke of a pen will i cosine my English,Welsh and Irish friends as Foreign..

[YARROWS9]

der1001 Your watching to much Braveheart mate and not enough of Films like the battle of Britain or Sink the Bismark when our country(and i mean Scotland aswell)was to the wall and we all pulled together English,Scots,Welsh and Irish to save it from oblivion.

[dunedinman50]

Independence for Scotland from the rest of the UK is a practical non-starter, we are all here in the UK too intermeshed and dependent on each other to separate, economically, it just wouldn't be feasible, that's just for starters, just do the maths,also, I believe this is all a political move by the SNP, who, like all politicians, are trying to make a name for themselves through this effort,this is one Jock who will not be voting for the break with the rest of the UK, -and btw, I am ferociously

[gethinj]

Annibyniaeth i'r Alban. Lluoedd arfog y sais yw'r rhain. Independence all the way for Scotland. Muslims don't attack small countries only powerful colonial ones like the uk and the usa. It will make the world a safer place. Having the english army in Wales and Scotland is only part of the colonisation process. It is Edward the 1st army in reality and nothing else.

[Rotebuehl1]

London, the Big Money Machine, invented and implemented modern globalization! Globalization need nations and strong countries to disappear! Now London gets what she craved for! Even if it is at the costs of the entire U.K., money seems to be much more important, than anything else...

[shearer99ful]

if they want independence then build hadrians wall back up

[AaronThrashingMad]

@skifi1 Excuse me? TWO nations? I think you will find there is more than that.

[YARROWS9]

@AaronThrashingMad Sorry mate but England and Scotland are the two countries that made Britain what it is.With Inventions, Science the Military and there Economies.Wales and Northern Ireland have just came along for the ride.It even says this when you type in Great Britain in wiki..

[skifi1]

breaking up UK? .. the best way to end up like czechoslovakia .. once a great country and now 2 meaningless nations .. do you want to go that way? you will regret it .. there will be no or very hard way back ..

[MrJahka]

@skifi1

lol. czechoslovakia was not off great importance. it was a soviet pawn. the czech republic is a fine country, though. Slovakia suffers from the ethnic divisions that have plagued the Balkans for some time.

[PNETriffid]

The SNP want to leave NATO! Well I have to agree with them on this point.

[MrSexyPirateDisco]

ENGLISH INDEPENDENCE!!!!

[johnnycarrotheid]

@MrSexyPirateDisco

Purchase them? We contributed to them so it would go like everything else, dividing up.

Remember the UK is a Union. The only two signatories are Scotland and England in an equal partnership.

Scotland doesnt leave the UK, we break the UK.

There would be no Britain to have British defence industries.

There would be nothing under a banner of Britian or British, unless Westminster wanted to keep the name to hang onto Wales, NI but that's a new constitution.

[PaulRamos1993]

Well, if Scotland says "yes" to independence, defense industries should be moved to other places in the UK, but remain in Scotland under British jurisdiction untill all Government contracts are completed. Then, if Scotland could have the option to purchase a share of the British defense industries located in Scottish territory, such debated problems as unemployment would have no actual impact. The independence process should take at least 5-10 years, not a couple of months...

[Immovablecomment]

They should let scotland become independent... Then invade straight after

[johnnycarrotheid]

@Immovablecomment

Thats ok, we'l still have the nukes then :D

[ImperialEarthEmpire]

now i will refer the countries only as scotland, england n ireland or maybe wales respectively... im sick of d confusing long official name of united kingdom of great britain and northern ireland...

[NWOareScum]

who'll kill tree-murderers and noise-polluters and golfers and procurator fiscals and non-gaian urbanisers, i'll vote for them.

[teggart123]

All British contracts would move to the rest of the UK if scotland did decide on independence so scotland would screw its economy doing this

[1Banerjee]

i would recommend all Scottish military personal to say no to independence as if Scotland does become independent then most of the military will lose their jobs.

[MrZambology]

@1Banerjee I would recommend military personnel to vote yes then they might not loose their lives in illegal wars. They're losing their jobs anyway.

[Alastairbell]

@1Banerjee 'I want Scotland to be independent, not because I think we are better than any other country, but because I know we are just as good as any other country.'Independence will create a new, more modern relationship between the nations of these islands - a partnership of equals.Independence would allow Scotland to become a wealthier and fairer nation, Imagining a country that 'speaks with its own voice, stands taller in the world and takes responsibility for its own future'.

[TheBluePianist]

@Alastairbell but why? i don't understand the point unless scottish parliament think they can do a better job on their own, whilst losing, political and economic ties (surely some of which must be beneficial) and possibly being at debate against the neighboring country, england (if they did do something different).

it all seems abit pointless to me, is it that scottish people feel they don't get a voice in the uk? i'm trying to study this now but i can't see anything substantial.

[skifi1]

@Alastairbell talkong from experience exactly the same thing happened to Czechoslovakia .. breaking up will weaken the country, weaken the relationships .. and in few yoears you will regret it ..

[manglus93]

if Scotland becomes independent will the flag of GBR lose it's blue background?

[TheSevenCamels]

@manglus93 It didn't lose Saint Patrick's Cross when Ireland left, apparently because changing the nat. flag would be too expensive -so probably not. Funny how our government works eh? money money money

[ACCSESS247]

I'm Welsh but I hope that Scotland do vote for independence & that it all works out very well for them so that Wales & Northern Ireland will then follow them. Anything that that hinders the ability of the government to get us involved in expensive & immoral wars is a good thing. Also the independent nations won't be held back by Westminster in Europe, where we can have bigger & stronger economic & military alliances for defence instead of aggression.

[MrFattyfatfatboy]

im Australian so i guess i dont know much but i remember mygrand uncle "Jim" who was from scotland used to bristle when ever we mentioned the Queen and would say that she's no queen of mine, it was the first time i heard a bad word against her and i grew up a catholic.

[anson2k10]

Scotland would be 100% better to stand alone! also the thing i see is England only care about the Military as ive seen what about what we are thinging listen to SCOTLAND and not "oh what about the Milatary!?" GET IT FIXED!?:S

[Paintballerfromhell1]

Scots vote for your long deserved independence.Croatia is 100% behind you.We can't wait to establish full relations with the new independent Scottish state.Saor Alba.

[honwavet40]

I don't get why Nationalist Scottish people think UK bases in Scotland are so offensive. The single most expensive military assets of the UK (or 'English' as they put it) are based in Scotland. The new carriers are being assembled in Scotland, our nukes are in Scotland, Type 45's built in Scotland. Not in England... but you don't hear English people moaning about it; because Scotland is part of the UK. In short, we respect Scotland.. Stop hating us!

[kargwain187]

@honwavet40 having nuclear weapons based their makes it a first strike target and they cost huge sums of cash that come from scotlands funds.

[Oder1001]

@honwavet40 its also the most dangerous and if an accident happened it would radiate half of Scotland, weapons that will never be used and enormous cost ,so London can sit at the table and pretend they are a mighty power, the truth of defence spending is year on year cuts for Scotland and under spend that has gone on for years, the scare mongering of those who say we will lose jobs, no longer will we be bribed then have the cuts imposed save money remove all the military and defence industries.

[Oder1001]

@honwavet40 We don`t hate the English, we hate Westminster so don't take it personally. Try telling Westminster to stop hating.

[dannymaclure1]

let scotland have its vote. Its our land and our choice listen to these power loving tories.

[renseks]

It is if England is only concerned about it's own military instead of listening to the voice of scotland. Military can be replaced, national identity can't.

[OGZxH4CKZOR1]

@renseks Actually there's been many great scotish soldiers in the british army

if scotland is weak other coutnry may take advantage and invade scotland due to it would be weaker then make it way down to england

[Oder1001]

@OGZxH4CKZOR1 The last country to invade Scotland was England and it took them 300 years to beat a nation ten times smaller than England, we might be weak but no one will take advantage and the cost will be very expensive, if they get through us they won`t have any fight to carry it into England. sleep easy in your bed!

[legandrydirk]

@BennyJonesPhoto I reckon you are wrong.Plenty off my country work in England.The older generation and younger people than me.Go anywhere especially smaller twns,and you will find people back up the road.Who had been away working in London.Or even Birmingham were a M8 off mines came back from last year.The work is in England,more jobs there.Even if the unemployment figuires are up.People still manage to find work,the work most locals dont want to do there.Your view off us Scots seem warped.

[legandrydirk]

@BennyJonesPhoto We heard the oil is running out argument since the 80ties.And its still there and we have not even drilled in land yet.If the findings from Canada is anything to go bye.The oil should be were they expect it to be.In Canada they still have a well,that is producing oil since 1867.The new drills that are being used,found oil in land in England.And have not been used up north yet.Even at sea the platforms move,and drill spirialy.And soak up as much as they can get

[nikkithescaff1]

dont listen to british media dont be fooled

[MarvellousMuffin]

@BennyJonesPhoto

It's about ambition. Pretty much all of us are Britons (i.e. British citizens), not half of us.

[segano1]

The defence to be revealed in full later will be that Scotland's army and nation status will be based on the Nordic model. Scotland will look more North and East for trade, co-operation and exploration rather than concentrating on the West and and commonwealth like England does now.

[haggisman11]

@BennyJonesPhoto And there are plenty of precedents for that. The Dutch-French banks and the Belgium-French Banks that went bankrupt had to be bailed out jointly by the responsible authorities, and so it would have been shared IN THE NEXT 6 YEARS THE UK TRESURY WILL RECIEVE 10 BILLION IN REVENUES FROM SCOTS OIL ALONE

[haggisman11]

@BennyJonesPhoto And there are plenty of precedents for that. The Dutch-French banks and the Belgium-French Banks that went bankrupt had to be bailed out jointly by the responsible authorities, and so it would have been shared

[haggisman11]

@BennyJonesPhoto £480 billion ?? AND WHAT PLANET IS THIS ON|??..RBS WAS £46 BILLION AND EVEN AT THAT ENGLAND WOULD STILL BE LIBLE FOR A SHARE [LARGE] . leading Professor of Economics, Andrew Hughes Hallett, has sensationally confirmed that Scotland has been subsidising the UK treasury in London for years ,,, AND ON BANKS They [HBOS and RBS] have substantial activities in England as well as elsewhere and therefore the burden of bailing them out would have to have been shared in any case.

.

[chancergordy]

@BennyJonesPhoto . MMMM! Again you are wrongly assuming that all the defence budget is paid by England, Scotland would be entitled to a proportion of ALL the UK defences.

[chancergordy]

@BennyJonesPhoto. Well that's innacurate, can't dig the figure out because Westminster government make it very difficult and have been caught fiddling the figure down, ask yourself why they would do that?

it will be similar to Norway

[ByronRaver]

Never trust a Campbell

[TheMogab]

Good old Ming...member of the yo yo party!!

[haggisman11]

@TheMogab

YOU SHOULD WATCH THE NEWS, UK GOVT HAS PLANNED TO CLOSE RAF BASES IN SCOTLAND UNDER THE DEFENCE CUTS AND AT PRESENT THEIR IS NO ANTI-SUBMARINE CAPABILITY AROUND THE COASTAL AWTERS DUE TO TORY CUTS. ALSO

example, the defence figures where the actual monies spent in Scotland was £0.8 billion LESS than the official treasury figures.

Those numbers are very misleading mainly because the spending in that part is what’s spent on behalf of Scotland but not necessarily in Scotland

[1A157]

@haggisman11 I think you'll find those closed RAF base's are gonna be army base's when the army finishes in Germany, so there is still gonna be a large military presence in Scotland

[legandrydirk]

@1A157 Great those soldiors on the ground,will do a good job hunting submarines.Nice one Cameron that was a good move there.Do you know that 10 days before Xmas.The Russians were just outside our waters?The first time that they have come as close for 20 years.Down to the weakness off the Tory cuts.I suggest that you look it up.UK sent one ship up from Portsmouth,100 miles to monitor them.Russians were hiding from a storm,and dropped poulted stuff when they left.And the SNP are not happy with it.

[haggisman11]

@TheMogab “The estimate for Scotland’s share, that’s contributions to defence, is 2.8 billion but it’s roughly 2.0 billion are actually paid out in Scotland misleading mainly because the spending in that part is what’s spent on behalf of Scotland but not necessarily in Scotland

So there’s an implicit subsidy going south in that sense and you can think of lots of other examples here Scotland sends a subsidy south, London and South east England are the heaviest subsidised in the UK

[legandrydirk]

@haggisman11 I keep telling them that.They seem to think London,is some sort off amazing City.And I knew differently,I know that there is lots off rough places in the east end.Places that the subsidses are going to.And for some weird reason,they think Scotland gets the most subsides or Liverpool.

[telemetry9]

Scotland's right & ability. Can you envisage someone you love?

Most learn that for a child to grow and be at peace it must have something vital: a certain liberty and authenticity. Deny this and something dies. I beg you. Scotland is dying. Will you be brave enough to let her go? Will you have courage to liberate her soul?

I beg you. Look at the reality of broken lives and a self harming place - let her go outside to see the sun and to live a life God willing. To be in full expression.

[Oder1001]

where is the positive case for the Union?every unionist repeats the same thing Scotland won`t make,to small,cant do, do you honestly expect people to vote for negativity? we hear what will Scotland do when the oil runs out? how will it be different when the oil runs out and we still part of the union? the economic argument is a false one.many countries have left the empire and they make it fine, stop insulting us put forward a positive point for union. not the usual we are stronger together crap

[stepheng1483]

Together we are stronger, our country is small enough as it is without making it even smaller.

[m1trekker]

The SNP as with other nationalists (Hitler, Milosevic) lead to one thing: war. Anyone fancy tanks on the streets of Edinburgh and Glasgow?

[chancergordy]

@m1trekker, piffle!

[WuckHunter]

Scottish independence is a joke

[chancergordy]

@WuckHunter, of course it is, Scotland will never be like Norway, Norway is far too prosperous now.

The money Norway makes on the interest on monies saved through selling oil from the 70s and 80s far outstrips the monies they get from still selling it.

I mean, who would want their country to be like Norway?

I'd rather be getting told we are all too thick to be able to be independent!

[Sammy1234568910]

to all those saying this is unionist and propaganda it is British Forces News which brodcasts to all UK military and is meerly highlighting the concerns of the MoD, the military do not take any political views in the UK.

[MrStewart149]

rancid old ming setting out the usual unionist scare stories ' the creepy old quisling '

[SCO190]

TO ALL SCOTS

VOTE YES IN 2014

SCOTLAND IS STONGER INDEPENDENT.

IT IS A CHOICE BETWEEN INDEPEDENCE OR DEPENDANCY.

WE CAN BE A PROSPEROUS, RICHER COUNTRY INDEPENDENT.

VOTE YES IN 2014.

[nwlondoner9]

What would happen to Scotland's defence industry they ask. Ditch it and replace it with a new one. That's what Ireland did in 1922. Today Ireland has its own army, navy and air force. If Ireland can do it Scotland can too.

[scotty9838]

I think Menzie makes a good point i am a proud Scotsman and a proud Brit ,we have worked within the Union for hundreds of years now ,overall we have flourished as nation and will continue to flourish ,but not by breaking up the union and going independant and ineviteably toward the euro where it just so happens we will be at the whim of the Germans and French.

Scotland is a integral and stalwart nation of the Union we are the reason Britain is Great ! but it is within Union ,not out .

[LiquidReason]

I beleive if they want independance, then they should have it. However, be warned, what belongs to the UNITED Kingdom, will not stay it Scotland, Scottish people would no longer be a part of that union and should therefore have no control over it. Also about the North Sea, i haven't seen the Scottish Government fund any movements towards drilling, the money has come from London and drilling firms anchored in Company House. So, im for it, just dont pipe up about things that arent yours.

[Claymore1314]

@SuperMadformusic

Just as well you call yourself British, as you cannot even seem to spell 'Scot' or 'Welsh' correctly. I'm guessing this is the first time you've ever had to write both of these words, now that you clearly feel your identity is under threat... something that, as a Scot, I will never experience. Independence will enhance my sense of self.

[LiquidReason]

@Claymore1314 Scot, Welsh. I am English and proud, I respect our Scottish Neighbours.

[glasgow1234]

Where is the view from the Scottish Government?? All i've seen on the news on the past few days is the UNIONIST view on Scottish Independence.

[smezec]

@glasgow1234 You haven't been watching enough TV. SNP politicians have been all over the news this week. Did you watch Question Time? The Deputy First Minister was on it as well as the Daily Politics. Alex Salmond has been on the BBC several times too.

[dmacaulay75]

An extremely biased piece but hardly surprising given the source.

However, on defence, what is not mentioned very often is that defence spending in Scotland is significantly lower than the national average and the size of a Scottish defence force in an independent Scotland would be comparable to that of similarly sized countries such as Denmark. This would be an INCREASE in defence spending and more troops doing what defence forces should be doing.

[jistaface]

@dmacaulay75

Not sure how defence spending in Scotland can be lower when we're the place with the nuclear sub bases, (besides airbases). But it would be nice to think that Scottish lads and lasses needn't find themselves at the ends of the earth on the hard end of US oil wars and prime-ministerial vanity.

[Claymore1314]

@jackydefo

Aye, take aw thing doon south... includin' Trident Nuclear Weapons of Mass Destruction that you swines currently stash up here in God's own country! Put that in yer pipe an' smoke, wee man!

[OGZxH4CKZOR1]

well if they leave england then scotland wil the ones who will be losing out remain united for the better.

[jistaface]

@OGZxH4CKZOR1 Lose what, exactly? Being governed by a party that gets about 6% of the vote in my country? Scotland has suffered enough nondemocracy and enough lies about our finances. England's purse will be somewhat smaller, I agree, but you've had a good run. Probably you'll get a more generous share of the active oilfields than the three or four percent that fall within English territory. And don't forget, you can still explore off the north of Ireland. If you hold onto NI.

[DannyGemmo]

I am from Scotland, I consider myself Scottish and I am a member of the SNP and I believe in independence for Scotland. There are many reasons why Scotland should become independent. I feel the uk government is scared of losing the money being put into the economy from north sea oil. What is the big deal of Scotland becoming independent loads of other countries have became independent from Britain for hundreds of years

[N330AA]

@DannyGemmo North Sea Oil is normally counteracted by the Barnett formula. Oil reveues vary from year to year but only 3 times in the last 10 have Oil revenues exceeded what Scotland has gains from the Barnett formula.

[iRiggers]

@DannyGemmo We will both have weaker voices in the world, giving America MORE power, more influence. That thought alone is sickening!

Divide a Conquer.

We might as well raise a US flag on our ships. A chance of a untied common wealth nations has already been scuppered by Obama in Aus. Which was seen as the last possible bastion of power against these tyrants. And If now Scotland leaves, we're all screwed!

[dafty97]

@DannyGemmo A. The British government stands to lose a hell of alot money and power if Scotland does vote for independence. B. English people take the bid for independence as something against them, like its born out of hatred for England or some stupid reason like that.

[Zero7evenX]

I'm duel nationality.

I'll be infuriated if Scotland separates from England, This is one situation I believe should Not be left to a populous vote, because there's an inherent disdain with the Scottish majority which could ultimately force a detrimental position for both nations.

I can see how it would work for Scotland in many ways, as they have many allies waiting in the wings, but our union is what's kept us strong, our combined and evolving ethos can only make us stronger.

Don't Break it

[euan101]

Zero,

First and foremost Scotland would not be leaving England, it would be leaving the UK. With regard to not leaving this to a populous vote I would ask what country and century do you think your are living in?

I would add that I am completely undecided on the issue.

[gamblemadman]

@Zero7evenX Well spoken.

[1A157]

Don't won't nuclear weapons but happy to have nuclear submarine's what's different? There's a lot of jobs at stake here, not only that there's a large number of English & Welsh soldiers living and serving in Scotland. If there's one thing the Union can be proud is most certainly has to be the armed forces!!! Oh and I'll think you'll find the Irish are involved in Afghanistan too, only 7 troops yes but they're still there and no part of NATO!

[SuperMadformusic]

I was born in Liverpool.1959. My mother was a Scott. My mother served and did Her duty as a

British electrician during the 2nd world war in R.A.F.!!!!!!!

My Father was a BRITISH MERCHANT SEAMAN!!!!!!!! I have lived in Wales for more than 26 years!!!!!! Guess what!!!! Im BRITISH, NOT WELCH/NOT SCOTTISH/IRISH/ BRITISH/

[jistaface]

@SuperMadformusic

Don't worry, supermad - if you're resident in Scotland you can cast your democratic vote. And if you move here, maybe your kids can go to schools that teach spelling and how to write in sentences better than yours did.

[Wilma472866]

Looks like most Scottish regimental soldiers would lose their jobs as there would be no need for big regiments. Thats if Scotland do gain independence. I don't actually know anyone who wants scotland free of the UK.

[dangermouse009900]

Independence of Scotland is only supported by around 30% of the scottish population it would be detrimental to trade, welfare, defence the SNP do not understand the mass amount of government expenditure that is spent on scottish welfare

[jistaface]

@dangermouse009900

"the SNP do not understand the mass amount of government expenditure that is spent on scottish welfare"

You've been lied to. A lot. Wiki "McCrone report" scroll down to the pdfs. Read it.

The oil tax alone from Scottish territories, even now it's less than before, is still orders of magnitude bigger thanthe TOTAL that Scotland recieves from Westminster. That's BESIDES the 10% of GDP contributed by the Scottish 8.6% of UK population.

[calicheSCOT]

And today the British government has just cut another 4500 defense jobs, how's that for defense fears?

[gspotkentzoom]

bye bye uk...bye bye

[markdoncaster55]

Yes bring those bases and aircraft carrier contracts to england n wales. lol how can 5million people ever defend themselves if they get attacked by radicals from a far away country or even invaded. If scotland go independent just watch that 5million population leave i droves just like ireland n come to england.

[jistaface]

Good grief - why in this day of streaming internet & satellite 24-hour news does there need to be a forces propaganda - sorry, NEWS channel...?

Oh - answered my own question.

Notice the wording: "claims" vs "says":  "breakup" (not independence) "cope" (implies difficulty) independence "granted" (not recognised/acknowleged)...

This crude sort of drivel is amusing - as is getting a member of the "home rule party" (Lib Dems) and failing to ask him why he suddenly opposes home rule (even devo-max).

[BOT101st]

And who do we have to thank for this?

Tony Blair... destructor of the UK...

[quhitcorse1943]

This is traditional English colonialist, paternalistic thinking. The bottom line is Labour would loose a big chunk of their Westminster MPs possibly condemning them to permanent opposition, the Army would loose one of its traditional major sources of manpower and the UK as a whole the North Sea oil revenues. If Switzerland can be a country outside of NATO as is Ireland why cant Scotland Let the Scottish decide and respect their democratic decision.

[macgonnigal]

One unionist view - hardly balanced. As for NATO and Libya - replacing Gaddafi with Al Qeada is hardly a victory. Untangling Scotland from the UK will take time and negotiation - no one has suggested otherwise. There are many small, successful, independent nations that manage their own defense and maintain support industries - to suggest that somehow Scotland will be different is the "too wee, too stupid" propaganda that has helped drive the Scottish people to seeking independence.

[markdoncaster55]

@macgonnigal not propeganda at all,what small nation of 5million do you know that builds and has aircraft carriers n the worlds most advanced navy.Stop trolling.

[Claymore1314]

@markdoncaster55

Hmm, the Torrys would have cancelled the aricraft carriers had they not been more expensive to halt than continue, and seeing as builds of this size happen only every 3 or 4 DECADES I don't think we Scots will be worrying too much about any future contracts of this nature! There is also the fact that we Scots pay 7.5 Billion in UK defence contributions, London spends about 1.8 Billion of the defence budget back in Scotland.

Source. HMRC\Westminster Budget 2011

[bossendenwoodconvict]

@macgonnigal More accurate to say "some of the Scottish people" (apparently as high as a third), support SEPARATION from The U.K. rather than independence.Such a separation from the U.K. is, of course, not independence, as most of Scotland's laws are made in Brussels. The SNP is best understood as representing another form of unionism-European Unionism. They support union with an artificial foreign state, while opposing the Union of the British peoples.

[jackydefo]

bring EVERYTHING down south and leave them to it

[matthew181]

@jackydefo while I wont be voting for an independent scotland, the Westminster government wouldn't be able to do that since we own about 7% of the military hardware. the SNP would proberbly take one type 45 one astute 2 frigates and a squadron of typhoons, the new Scottish military would focus more or air / sea defence.

but as I said, I wont be voting for it.

[calicheSCOT]

@jackydefo What about the Scots in the armed forces that make up a disproportionately high number?

[beverage2008]

@jackydefo hahahahaha in their dreams.

[chancergordy]

@jackydefo you can't do that matey, Scotland's people pay taxes too, though you would think otherwise the way some politicians talk. It ain't solely England defences.

Of course if you want everything, you can take those rotting nuclear sub's parked up at rosyth!

[scud69er]

@jackydefo Agreed just think of the jobs it would create for the english!

Scotland really haven't thought this through at all.....