The only thing I could think the whole time that the hand was inside the door was "Why aren't you wearing leather gloves? Foxes tend to have sharp pointy teeth, and this one obviously doesn't like you!" Oh well, at least she didn't get bitten. That wouldn't have been to wonderful... for her.
i cant deny that this kind of experiments are "good" for science knowledge (and i agree just because they are not injecting them any quimics or anything 'unnatural')... but is it THAT necessary to leave those foxes in cages like that? even the friendly ones, that mean no danger to the scientist safety, are in cages... THATS unnatural, you could be doing your resarch without treating them like that... please! (im not english speaker, sorry for any mistake)
@goober239 I would take it as a pet and give it more place to live, but where he can't come close to anyone unless I want him to -.- better then a life in a cage
I hope you that guy gets his hand bitten off one day that's what he gets for experimenting on them. they must stop this insanity before its to late and if that happens you all shall pay so dearly
I'm about as much of a reductionist and a genetic determinist as you're likely to find, but even I find the speed at which these changes took place amazing. 30 human generations correspond to 750 years, allowing a generous 25 years per generation. I'd bet that eugenicists could also do some amazing things with humans in a surprisingly short time frame, for better or worse.
Yeah unfortunately this is the dark side of the tame-fox experiment - the aggressive-fox breeding experiment. Feel sorry for the poor animal. It's scared. Leave it alone...
it was part of a 40yr experiment by a famous researcher Balyaev. In which they selected for tameness in breeding. They basically showed that through 40yrs of breeding they could domesticate the wild Silver fox. Watch the other video called "Belyaev experiment: docile foxes" The fox is from the exact same generation, but tame like a puppy. Shows that docility can be a genetically transferred trait. This fox is from the 1/4 or so which retained wild characteristics.
This fox is beyond wild, it's more like super-defensive, at least to my understanding.
And the results only took 10 generations to start the drastic changes, however many years that is. I'd love to have one of the tame ones. They reminds me VERY MUCH of my dog, no joke, a mixed hound/northern breed dog (yeah, a pound puppy).
Tobewithyouhoo-- It's not to make nature to depend more on man, it's to gain further understanding on the domestication process, the rapid changes that occur and all the things that happen, and to speculate what could have happened with wolves and dogs, and what could also happen with any other species of animal in theory.
When it looks "like a positive" improvement no one says anything. I think that is short-sighted. How about Labradors with arthritis? No one at the beginning of that genetic selection made any comments.
I think that if the conclusions of the fox experiment in the video is based on foxes locked up in tiny cages, is very partial, narrow minded and incomplete.
I would like to hear from someone interested in genetics and alcoholics. Anybody out there?
So what, some people have a tendency towards drunkenness? That'd be pretty hard without alcohol.
And I think you should look into this study more. I mean you may have already, but if you haven't, you should. Keep in mind the conditions under which and the time in which Belyaev conducted the experiment, too.
Have you see the other experiment by Belyaev? That group of foxes is housed in the exact same type of cage, but since they were selected for tameness they practically were trying to crawl into the researcher's pockets. They had the same "I love you I love you I want to play with you" body language of a super-friendly dog. And yet they were housed in the same small wire cage. Cage size in this case has nothing to do with it.
If you have a chance to read Temple Grandin's most interesting book "Animals in translation" you can put this experiment in perspective. I find it fascinating and am repulsed by it at the same time.
If you read the book you become aware that we are surrounded by genetics and its manipulation by man.
Dogs and other domestic animals actually, by explaining the process of domestication and how it affects not only behavior, but also physical development.
The original point of the experiment was to breed tame foxes for the fur industry in the USSR (They also bred aggressive foxes and "normal" ones as comparisons), but when they selected for tameness, hormones changed in the foxes' bodies that caused things like the wagging tails, patchwork coats (making them useless for fur) and floppy ears. They decided to continue even after the "problems" showed up because it could shed light on domestication.
I like to feel sexy....knowing someone is watching me ..wanting me...turns me on!BADLY! I like to flirt and pose..and sometimes i like to get WILD! how? ..he he..come in video and youll see:-)) maybe u can teach me something..or maybe i will ! come visit me at _ MeetYourFling (.COM) _ my user-id there is modesta-rtdr chat soon on cam :-) yfzrhzvldn
This looks like a silver fox, just like Faybee...and acting like Faybee on a bad day! She usually acted like this when she is in her cage or cornered, and has taken something she should not have or is trying to protect (food, purse, shoe), or is being forced to do something she doesn't want to do (come home from walk). When you hear that 'kack' sound you know she is ready to strike and I am surprised this lady didn't get bit. They can be so quick.
As ugly as this video might be, this study is awesome. Only 40 years of selective breeding produced this and the docile foxes. Profound lessons about human beings cab be learned here.
Exactly. These experiments are conducted at Fox Farms in Russia. Only those that are the tamest are selected to be spared an unfortunate death in the fur trade buisness.
Theres nothing they could do. Russia does not have animal cruelty laws when it comes to a major export like Fox Fur. The man in the video wasn't physically torturing the poor fellow, he was conducting an experiment on tameness.
cosmicgate07 : I saw this fox behaving very well with a woman . That was a different fox. All these animals had very little contact with people so that they can find the most submissive foxes that will birth/sire more tame foxes to skin.
I am a psychology student and I am glad to have found this video if I do write a paper on this subjuct I would like to use these to videos as a source, with your permission of course.
I own an exotic animal rescue with about 16 big cats, 20 monkeys, six bears, six wolves, 30 exotic hoof stock, 20 farm animals, 30 small mammals, 20 birds, and fifty reptiles. I am currently in the process of expanding in order to take in abouts twice that many animals.
I hate the fact that the majority of the people who are responding to this haven't even heard of this experiment and apparently have no concept of "selective breeding". It might also be interesting to note that if the African Wildcat didn't have a genetic mutation, it wouldn't have been so keen on hanging out around grain silos, killing mice, and wouldn't have allowed humans to become so friendly. That's how we got the common house cat.
I just want to know how are they really treated just with human interaction or are they all shown love and affection. I have a pet fox its my hubbys sixth since he was 13 they have all been tame leash and litter trained
...animal rights and animal respecting, not only animal welfare. If someone kills animals to make for ex. fur, it's not animal welfare but hypocrisy. I tell this, cause certain breeders and furriers say "we make fur but we consider animal welfare".
its not hypocracy, but is a waste of life if fur is not appriciated. im not for fur farm, because at the hand of man they still get mistreated. i mean why keep a fox in a boring cage!?
Interesting video. Are you part of the research group at Cornell? Do you know if Trut and her own group are still having funding problems?
I read somewhere that these foxes are not so much aggressive as hyper-defensive. The docile ones have no fear of humans while these ones are very much afraid of them. If one of the latter was to escape from its cage it wouldn't go around looking for people to attack; most likely, it would simply hide somewhere until it starved to death.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
It's not fascinating....it's obvious and disturbing. I work with animals, studied and graduated from uni and I don't need to see this video to understand that animals behavior is unpredictable (again, human or not). When young kids or people see videos like this, they can't understand and that's why I don't feel this should be on a public domain. It's unnecesary & disturbing. But hey, what do I know, there is a 1,000 unncessary and shocking videos on this site for no apparent reason.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
What the hell is the purpose of this situation Mr. Cornell University guy? Posting it for students of psychology of what year -- 1950? Have we not learned anything from unregulated experiments of the past on animals and humans alike? Animal cornered = aggression. Real shocker...this is science? Do people still get paid for this crap? So disappointed.
I can see where you're coming from! But there is a misunderstanding. This fox and dozens like it were treated exactly the same as the foxes in the other video on my account.
It means that the foxes were bred for two types of aggression (linked to average adrenaline levels): A) Next to none, and B) Above average. This is the above average fox. The amazing thing is that none of this is behavioral--it's all genetic! That's what makes it facinating.
@ZacharyB, You know, I was initially interested in these experiments, until I shook my head and realized something. Have you ever met a dog? You know, canis familiaris? Um, we've done this already. I agree with the cage conditions also skewing results. That is not a suitable environment for either type of animal. We ignore ecology, so that we may learn what we already know. Again. Talk about history repeating itself. A new designer pet!! Not! Leave them be. Study people for a change.
are the cubs of the foxes removed from their parents? because if they aren't then this behaviour could be being passed on by the cubs learning to act that way from their parents.
All I know is that they are treated exactly the same as the really tame foxes. There was some data in the 2001 report that stated that the onset of the fear response was genetically pushed back much further for the tame foxes than it was for the aggressive foxes.
@jiffyjohnjimbo Tame foxes were given to aggressive moms and aggressive foxes were given to tame moms, even through embryonic transplantation. They still acted like their genetic mothers and not their stepmothers.
@jiffyjohnjimbo They even tried putting embryos from aggressive foxes into tame foxes and vica versa, with no result. Cubs from aggressive parents still ended up aggressive, and cubs from tame parents still ended up tame. So it is a genetical change, and not just enviromental. Very interesting! :)
why agressive? the fox is wild animal.... I think you are who is being agressive by not respecting his territory and your own behairvous towards the fox HELLO! actually, you are a good specie to be studied better in animal behairvour... lol
It's true, I do study human behavior in terms of animal behavior. That's what makes this video so valuable, is that it shows the impact of genetics on behavior. Take a look at the companion video, Docile Foxes. This fox is not wild, it was born on the farm and treated the same as all the other foxes--that's what makes it aggressive. Foxes there are only allowed to breed with those that have the same behavior. This experiment started back in the 1950s.
That is to say, that this fox is at least 50 generations removed from the wild. It has been domesticated, but not tamed. It is aggressive. (Also, I am not a part of this experiment, I am posting this video for psychology and genetics students. The original experiment's site is in the video description.)
The only thing I could think the whole time that the hand was inside the door was "Why aren't you wearing leather gloves? Foxes tend to have sharp pointy teeth, and this one obviously doesn't like you!" Oh well, at least she didn't get bitten. That wouldn't have been to wonderful... for her.
mymusicrocks12345 1 month ago
They should release some of these guys in England during fox hunting season. Those foxhounds wouldn't know what hit them!
doobiesmoke15 10 months ago
i cant deny that this kind of experiments are "good" for science knowledge (and i agree just because they are not injecting them any quimics or anything 'unnatural')... but is it THAT necessary to leave those foxes in cages like that? even the friendly ones, that mean no danger to the scientist safety, are in cages... THATS unnatural, you could be doing your resarch without treating them like that... please! (im not english speaker, sorry for any mistake)
Blamkitah 1 year ago
This seems like a natural response to Communist Russian garbage to me!
WaffleKogen 1 year ago
best off putting a lurcher in there not ur hand
peter4190 1 year ago
I'm guessing these foxes are the ones that don't get taken home as cute pets?
goober239 1 year ago
@goober239 I would take it as a pet and give it more place to live, but where he can't come close to anyone unless I want him to -.- better then a life in a cage
DarthMorhan 7 months ago
@DarthMorhan Well, you really shouldn't. To be honest, they keep those even for breeding tame foxes. I'm not sure if they have found the gene yet.
goober239 6 months ago
@goober239 I know I shouldn't, but that's how I am xD
DarthMorhan 6 months ago
I hope you that guy gets his hand bitten off one day that's what he gets for experimenting on them. they must stop this insanity before its to late and if that happens you all shall pay so dearly
TehcnoFox116 1 year ago
I'm about as much of a reductionist and a genetic determinist as you're likely to find, but even I find the speed at which these changes took place amazing. 30 human generations correspond to 750 years, allowing a generous 25 years per generation. I'd bet that eugenicists could also do some amazing things with humans in a surprisingly short time frame, for better or worse.
PetrosWei 1 year ago
Yeah unfortunately this is the dark side of the tame-fox experiment - the aggressive-fox breeding experiment. Feel sorry for the poor animal. It's scared. Leave it alone...
milovy 2 years ago 2
foxes make cute sounds
beautywolfy 2 years ago 2
What are you doing with these foxes ??
ericbrindle1 2 years ago
it was part of a 40yr experiment by a famous researcher Balyaev. In which they selected for tameness in breeding. They basically showed that through 40yrs of breeding they could domesticate the wild Silver fox. Watch the other video called "Belyaev experiment: docile foxes" The fox is from the exact same generation, but tame like a puppy. Shows that docility can be a genetically transferred trait. This fox is from the 1/4 or so which retained wild characteristics.
WaDarkPhoenix 2 years ago
This fox is beyond wild, it's more like super-defensive, at least to my understanding.
And the results only took 10 generations to start the drastic changes, however many years that is. I'd love to have one of the tame ones. They reminds me VERY MUCH of my dog, no joke, a mixed hound/northern breed dog (yeah, a pound puppy).
FireRupee 2 years ago
@ericbrindle1 Do some research.
Alexdurrant7 1 year ago
Now what do conclusions really mean?
Are these friendly friends foxes able to fend for themselves in the wild?
Why indeed, does the experiment need to continue?
Do we need "more" nature to depend on men?
I do love my two Border Collies.
tobewithyouhoo 3 years ago
Tobewithyouhoo-- It's not to make nature to depend more on man, it's to gain further understanding on the domestication process, the rapid changes that occur and all the things that happen, and to speculate what could have happened with wolves and dogs, and what could also happen with any other species of animal in theory.
FireRupee 2 years ago
So was that a video clip splice at 1:27?
And I so want a tame fox.
FireRupee 3 years ago
google tame silver fox you'll find info on this experiments aims
tanatribe 3 years ago
When it looks "like a positive" improvement no one says anything. I think that is short-sighted. How about Labradors with arthritis? No one at the beginning of that genetic selection made any comments.
I think that if the conclusions of the fox experiment in the video is based on foxes locked up in tiny cages, is very partial, narrow minded and incomplete.
I would like to hear from someone interested in genetics and alcoholics. Anybody out there?
tobewithyouhoo 3 years ago
So what, some people have a tendency towards drunkenness? That'd be pretty hard without alcohol.
And I think you should look into this study more. I mean you may have already, but if you haven't, you should. Keep in mind the conditions under which and the time in which Belyaev conducted the experiment, too.
FireRupee 3 years ago 2
Have you see the other experiment by Belyaev? That group of foxes is housed in the exact same type of cage, but since they were selected for tameness they practically were trying to crawl into the researcher's pockets. They had the same "I love you I love you I want to play with you" body language of a super-friendly dog. And yet they were housed in the same small wire cage. Cage size in this case has nothing to do with it.
acute90994 3 years ago 14
If you have a chance to read Temple Grandin's most interesting book "Animals in translation" you can put this experiment in perspective. I find it fascinating and am repulsed by it at the same time.
If you read the book you become aware that we are surrounded by genetics and its manipulation by man.
tobewithyouhoo 3 years ago
sorry i dont understand the point of this experiment, who benifiting here? the furiors?
tanatribe 3 years ago
I do not know at all.
I wiped out your post by accident it had a Burnell u atachment with it. Are you studying at the university?
tobewithyouhoo 3 years ago
are you asking me that?
tanatribe 3 years ago
Dogs and other domestic animals actually, by explaining the process of domestication and how it affects not only behavior, but also physical development.
acute90994 3 years ago 3
The original point of the experiment was to breed tame foxes for the fur industry in the USSR (They also bred aggressive foxes and "normal" ones as comparisons), but when they selected for tameness, hormones changed in the foxes' bodies that caused things like the wagging tails, patchwork coats (making them useless for fur) and floppy ears. They decided to continue even after the "problems" showed up because it could shed light on domestication.
Mray3460 2 years ago 7
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I like to feel sexy....knowing someone is watching me ..wanting me...turns me on!BADLY! I like to flirt and pose..and sometimes i like to get WILD! how? ..he he..come in video and youll see:-)) maybe u can teach me something..or maybe i will ! come visit me at _ MeetYourFling (.COM) _ my user-id there is modesta-rtdr chat soon on cam :-) yfzrhzvldn
marcilio2 3 years ago
This looks like a silver fox, just like Faybee...and acting like Faybee on a bad day! She usually acted like this when she is in her cage or cornered, and has taken something she should not have or is trying to protect (food, purse, shoe), or is being forced to do something she doesn't want to do (come home from walk). When you hear that 'kack' sound you know she is ready to strike and I am surprised this lady didn't get bit. They can be so quick.
LittleFrock 4 years ago
As ugly as this video might be, this study is awesome. Only 40 years of selective breeding produced this and the docile foxes. Profound lessons about human beings cab be learned here.
emilyek1 4 years ago 4
I don't know about that, but certainly the rammifications are astounding.
DaScatman 3 years ago
I saw both these experiment videos. A woman on sybilsden even has a "red marble" fox.
KawaiiKemonomimi 4 years ago
@kitsunegirl3
Exactly. These experiments are conducted at Fox Farms in Russia. Only those that are the tamest are selected to be spared an unfortunate death in the fur trade buisness.
@tapertiger
Theres nothing they could do. Russia does not have animal cruelty laws when it comes to a major export like Fox Fur. The man in the video wasn't physically torturing the poor fellow, he was conducting an experiment on tameness.
AntiTheory 4 years ago 2
Actually they are now selling the culls of the docile group as pets in Russia as they are much more valuable as pets then as fur.
acute90994 3 years ago
I saw this fox behaving very well with a woman .
cosmicgate07 4 years ago
cosmicgate07 : I saw this fox behaving very well with a woman . That was a different fox. All these animals had very little contact with people so that they can find the most submissive foxes that will birth/sire more tame foxes to skin.
KawaiiKemonomimi 4 years ago 2
I am a psychology student and I am glad to have found this video if I do write a paper on this subjuct I would like to use these to videos as a source, with your permission of course.
Thank you for posting this
jmcmaster86 4 years ago
I own an exotic animal rescue with about 16 big cats, 20 monkeys, six bears, six wolves, 30 exotic hoof stock, 20 farm animals, 30 small mammals, 20 birds, and fifty reptiles. I am currently in the process of expanding in order to take in abouts twice that many animals.
sandymonitor 4 years ago
Poor fox. I remember hearing of this experiment somewhere that they were breeding silver foxes and later killed them off. I hate stuff like this.
kitsunegirl3 4 years ago
I hate the fact that the majority of the people who are responding to this haven't even heard of this experiment and apparently have no concept of "selective breeding". It might also be interesting to note that if the African Wildcat didn't have a genetic mutation, it wouldn't have been so keen on hanging out around grain silos, killing mice, and wouldn't have allowed humans to become so friendly. That's how we got the common house cat.
GunmetalRaven 4 years ago 3
ude best hope one of the animal rights nutters dosent track you down mate.
tapertiger 4 years ago
I just want to know how are they really treated just with human interaction or are they all shown love and affection. I have a pet fox its my hubbys sixth since he was 13 they have all been tame leash and litter trained
jen1708 4 years ago
I agree, I think animal welfare's the most important thing when it comes to stuff like this :)
Guncraft 4 years ago
...animal rights and animal respecting, not only animal welfare. If someone kills animals to make for ex. fur, it's not animal welfare but hypocrisy. I tell this, cause certain breeders and furriers say "we make fur but we consider animal welfare".
manuelochka 4 years ago
its not hypocracy, but is a waste of life if fur is not appriciated. im not for fur farm, because at the hand of man they still get mistreated. i mean why keep a fox in a boring cage!?
tanatribe 3 years ago
Interesting video. Are you part of the research group at Cornell? Do you know if Trut and her own group are still having funding problems?
I read somewhere that these foxes are not so much aggressive as hyper-defensive. The docile ones have no fear of humans while these ones are very much afraid of them. If one of the latter was to escape from its cage it wouldn't go around looking for people to attack; most likely, it would simply hide somewhere until it starved to death.
ShavedAsian 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
It's not fascinating....it's obvious and disturbing. I work with animals, studied and graduated from uni and I don't need to see this video to understand that animals behavior is unpredictable (again, human or not). When young kids or people see videos like this, they can't understand and that's why I don't feel this should be on a public domain. It's unnecesary & disturbing. But hey, what do I know, there is a 1,000 unncessary and shocking videos on this site for no apparent reason.
rider120120 4 years ago
That video proves the exact contrary: It proves that animal behavior is fairly predictable, and genetically determined.
Eikinkloster 4 years ago 2
could we not say the same about humans? a compelling arguement, one might consider.
brianutube 3 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
What the hell is the purpose of this situation Mr. Cornell University guy? Posting it for students of psychology of what year -- 1950? Have we not learned anything from unregulated experiments of the past on animals and humans alike? Animal cornered = aggression. Real shocker...this is science? Do people still get paid for this crap? So disappointed.
rider120120 4 years ago
I can see where you're coming from! But there is a misunderstanding. This fox and dozens like it were treated exactly the same as the foxes in the other video on my account.
It means that the foxes were bred for two types of aggression (linked to average adrenaline levels): A) Next to none, and B) Above average. This is the above average fox. The amazing thing is that none of this is behavioral--it's all genetic! That's what makes it facinating.
ZacharyB 4 years ago 15
@ZacharyB, You know, I was initially interested in these experiments, until I shook my head and realized something. Have you ever met a dog? You know, canis familiaris? Um, we've done this already. I agree with the cage conditions also skewing results. That is not a suitable environment for either type of animal. We ignore ecology, so that we may learn what we already know. Again. Talk about history repeating itself. A new designer pet!! Not! Leave them be. Study people for a change.
AnimalLeftist 3 weeks ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
i wish it bit your fucking hand lol that would of been funny
Hinchey313 4 years ago
I really don't see why I have to post this... Well anyways... that is not him in the video.
neonas85 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
dear god leave the poor fox alone.the reason it might be aggressive is cause of you and that damn joke of cage!
Yukikoinu 4 years ago
(That is not me in the video)
ZacharyB 4 years ago
are the cubs of the foxes removed from their parents? because if they aren't then this behaviour could be being passed on by the cubs learning to act that way from their parents.
jiffyjohnjimbo 5 years ago
All I know is that they are treated exactly the same as the really tame foxes. There was some data in the 2001 report that stated that the onset of the fear response was genetically pushed back much further for the tame foxes than it was for the aggressive foxes.
ZacharyB 5 years ago
@jiffyjohnjimbo Tame foxes were given to aggressive moms and aggressive foxes were given to tame moms, even through embryonic transplantation. They still acted like their genetic mothers and not their stepmothers.
Eboreg2 8 months ago 2
@jiffyjohnjimbo They even tried putting embryos from aggressive foxes into tame foxes and vica versa, with no result. Cubs from aggressive parents still ended up aggressive, and cubs from tame parents still ended up tame. So it is a genetical change, and not just enviromental. Very interesting! :)
Lotielin 1 month ago
why agressive? the fox is wild animal.... I think you are who is being agressive by not respecting his territory and your own behairvous towards the fox HELLO! actually, you are a good specie to be studied better in animal behairvour... lol
Sergionewyork 5 years ago
It's true, I do study human behavior in terms of animal behavior. That's what makes this video so valuable, is that it shows the impact of genetics on behavior. Take a look at the companion video, Docile Foxes. This fox is not wild, it was born on the farm and treated the same as all the other foxes--that's what makes it aggressive. Foxes there are only allowed to breed with those that have the same behavior. This experiment started back in the 1950s.
ZacharyB 5 years ago
so aggressive foxes produced agressive offspring? How many percent of the time?
jamal22066 4 years ago
That is to say, that this fox is at least 50 generations removed from the wild. It has been domesticated, but not tamed. It is aggressive. (Also, I am not a part of this experiment, I am posting this video for psychology and genetics students. The original experiment's site is in the video description.)
ZacharyB 5 years ago
Not a happy fox...acting like a cornered wild animal, which in essence, is exactly what it is.
damelain 5 years ago