Covenants & Catastrophes, Part 1

[vaja48le]

You are profoundly misinformed. The fact is that the word Ghusn branch is an Arabic word which has been used by Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha to refer exclusively to Baha'u'llah's male descendants. Before Remy's absurd claim, the wisdom of Abdu'l-Baha's statement in the Will and Testament that the Hands 'MUST GIVE THEIR ASSENT TO THE CHOICE OF THE ONE WHOM THE GUARDIAN OF THE CAUSE OF GOD HATH CHOSEN AS HIS SUCCESSOR" was not clear to many.

[adamjacob9]

vaja,

Mason is 'Abdu'l-Baha's son in a straight line of descent from The Master. You have yet to provide any passages to back up your claim that Aghsan refers only to a "blood relative".

Are you going to continue to completely ignore the fact that Shoghi Effendi explained explicitly that this passage DOES NOT mean what you are claiming it does. Do you disagree with Shoghi Effendi in this matter?

Please respond directly to this question.

Thank you

[vaja48le]

You are a hopeless case.

[vaja48le]

According to the Will and Testament of Abdu'l-Baha, a Guardian must be a lineal descendant. Mason Remey had no such blood relationship with the Holy Family. Just as importantly, even if a Guardian is a lineal descendant, his appointment must be approved by the Hands of the Cause of God. Mason Remey had no such approval. Finally, Remey himself signed the document of the Hands accepting that there was no descendant of the Guardian.

[pinabarryscott1]

Thank you VAJA48le for posting this remark. THESE PEOPLE ARE TRULY COVENANT BREAKERS!

MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON THEM!

[adamjacob9]

vaja48le,

The explicit text of the Will & Testament states that if the Guardian (Shoghi Effendi) has no lineal descendants (by blood) then he MUST choose "another branch [ghusn]", which he did in the person of Charles Mason Remey, appointed as HEAD [RAIS] of the IBC/UHJ. Shoghi defines a ghusn as "a son", and does not preclude blood relationship. 'Abdu'l-Baha adopted Mason as his real & only son [ghusn]. If you don't accept it, you are saying that God broke His covenant.

[vaja48le]

First, the Will and Testament states that the Guardian must choose a lineal descendant from the Aghsans. This means descendants of Baha'u'llah and not someone with no blood relation like Remy. Second, Remy himself signed the document alonf with all the other Hands that there was NO SUCCESSOR to the Guardian. Third, the Will states the Hands "must give their assent to the choice of the one whom the Guardian of the Cause of God has chozsen as his successor." The Hands gave NO SUCH ASSENT to Remy.

[adamjacob9]

vaja,

1. The W&T says the guardian must choose the "first-born of his lineal descendants", which in Shoghi's case would have been an Afnan.

2. If he has no son of his own, or if he doesn't think his son qualifies, they he MUST choose "another branch [ghusn]"

3. Shoghi defines the Aghsan as "sons" of Baha'u'llah. Nowhere in explicit Baha'i Holy Writ is this term defined as a blood relative.

4. Mason Remey was the legitimate adopted & LEGAL son of 'Abdu'l-Baha.

[vaja48le]

You are in error. Remy's claim is preposterous. It has more holes than a sieve. The Will and Testament states that the Hands of the Cause "must give their assent to the choice of the one whom the Guardian of the Cause of God hath chosen as his successor." Remy had no such assent and in fact was expelled by the Hands after he had signed, along with all of them, a document confirming the Guardian had not appointed a successor.

[adamjacob9]

vaja,

Continuing from my reply to your other comment,

5. Shoghi wrote in Baha'i News, Feb. 1955 about the passage from the W&T about "assent":

"The statement [about assent] in the Will of 'Abdu'l-Bahá does not imply that the Hands of the Cause of God have been given the authority to overrule the Guardian. 'Abdu'l-Bahá could not have provided for a conflict of authority in the Faith."

6. Mason later explained why he initially signed the document, in hopes the Hands would wake up later.

[vaja48le]

After Remy's volta face, in switching his position after signing in his own handwriting that their was NO GUARDIAN, his alleged claims and status as Guardian are NULL and VOID because the Hands NEVER gave "THEIR ASSENT" to his claim. No m,atter how many ways you try to argue Remy was NOT a blood descendant (Ghusn) of Baha'u'llah and he never received the assent of the Hands as REQUIORED BY THE WILL AND TESTAMENT.

[adamjacob9]

vaja,

Did you even read Shoghi's explanation of the verse about assent in Baha'i News, Feb. 1955? If you haven't yet, then this line of conversation can't continue until you do.

Also, you haven't yet provided from the Baha'i Writings where Aghsan is defined as a "blood descendant"

Are you able to read the passage cited?

Are you able to write which passages you are citing?

Thank you

[bigmannn80]

and what was the reason that Mr. Remey signed the document? i want you to say it for everyone to see.

[adamjacob9]

bigmann,

You'd have to ask Mason Remey.

But as it does nothing to change the 2-part criteria found in the Will & Testament of 'Abdu'l-Baha, it is irrelevant.

[bigmannn80]

Signed by Mason Remey...

"WHEREAS THE Guardian of the Bahá'í Faith, His Eminence the late Shoghi Effendi Rabbani,

passed away in London (England) on the 4th of November, 1957, without having appointed his successor;"

"Should any, within or without the company of the Hands of the Cause of God disobey and seek division,the wrath of God and His vengeance will be upon him, for he will have caused a breach in the true Faith of God."

(Abdu'l-Baha, The Will and Testament, p. 12)

[adamjacob9]

bigmannn,

Mason explained why he signed this document at the time.

It does nothing to change the reality that he is the Son of 'Abdu'l-Baha who was also appointed within the lifetime of Shoghi to the position of president & RAIS (Head) of the IBC/UHJ, the position reserved solely for the guardian.

[agahjoon89]

you are true covenant breakers.

may God lead you to the light.

[AcidoNZ]

The fundemental teaching of the Bahai Faith is unity and oneness of religion this can only be achived through the will of god and giving the people the power to elect the embryonic guardian of the faith not a power tripping crazy Like Mason Remey!~ Allah`u`abha friends may god have mercy on your souls for trying to divide his believers with your poison!

[adamjacob9]

Acido,

The purpose of the guardianship is to be the "Point of Unity" in the Cause of God. There is no provision in the Baha'i Covenant for the people to "elect the embryonic guardian". Can you provide the writing to support your position?