Re:"Independent"...WOMEN LISTEN UP FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!!

[DaSurreal1da]

If you really liken Black men saying "Im the leader of the household" to the Taliban and religious fanatics states volumes about you. If you're looking for a Co-Captain for a husband, thats cool for you. Its just not quite for me. I can elaborate if you wish, but understand this......When Black Men say they're the leader of the household, we are not suggesting, subservience, sexual slavery, a doormat or anything like that.It means we have the final say in major family discussions.

[DaSurreal1da]

@DaSurreal1da ...decisions....

[BronzeTrinity]

@DaSurreal1da What is says about me is that I didn't grow up that way and I have never heard men I know talk about this. So it's totally foreign and strange to hear modern men say these things. Calling it the Taliban is extreme but a lot of men say they are the leader because the Bible says so! I'm not religious so to me that's scary! Are you sure that is not what other Black men are saying? You might be different, but I'm honestly not sure about the others.

[DaSurreal1da]

@BronzeTrinity You're right, I cant speak for everyman but a lot of responsible brothers feel the same way I do. They want to marry some one who trusts in their ability to lead, and a lady who expects and respects that.....After all, male leadership has been the way since time the beginning of time and its worked. The family model was stable for thousands of years. I think most responsible black men feel this way and for good reason.

[BronzeTrinity]

@DaSurreal1da I think the family model was stable because at times divorce was illegal, women had no means to support themselves without a man, and they were physically forced to stay married no matter what her husband did. Women were abused and forced to do whatever men wanted because of misogyny, not because the man was the leader. Some men look at the past and think everyone was happy, well if women were so happy they would not have fought for equal rights. People said slaves were happy too.

[BronzeTrinity]

@DaSurreal1da This is pretty scary to me actually. Male leadership has been the way since the beginning of time and it has worked? Do you even ask why males have been in charge? It sounds like you think it's because they are better decision-makers or smarter or something. I think the reasons are that the Bible men wrote conveniently puts them in charge, laws support it and they had the physical strength to control women. It works for men, but not for women.

[BronzeTrinity]

Seriously, because I have only ever heard this "who is the leader" thing coming from Black men, religious fanatics, and the Taliban. It just screams insecurity when someone needs so much control. I don't believe in anyone being the leader in the relationship. You are partners and you come up with compromises that satisfy each partner and no, it's not impossible if you have experience doing it. Sometimes you give in, but you fight for what you really want and usually one person wants it more.

[BronzeTrinity]

I have a question. What decisions are you talking about where the man is supposed to be the leader? Would you seriously make decisions about where to live, how many children to have, whether your wife should work, where you are going on vacation, what movie to see etc without talking to your wife or trying to find a compromise that suits both of you? Why do you need so much control? Why do you always have to have things your way? Even world leaders compromise, debate, and come to agreements.

[DaSurreal1da]

@BronzeTrinity I'm all for compromise in a relationship. How many children we should have, whether she works where to go on vacation, movies, etc are all team decisions. I'm not an ogre who wants to micro-manage someones life.When I speak of male leadership decisions I'm talking about If I want to stay in Va and she wants to move to NY and we cant convince each other. We stay in Va.I'm looking for a woman who after all is said and done is okay with that.

[BronzeTrinity]

@DaSurreal1da So you would stay in VA just because it's what you want? Would you even consider if you didn't like your job but she was getting a lucrative promotion? What about if her family is there and yours isn't even in VA? This is what I mean. Why should you get what you want just because you are the man when there are better reasons for going to NY? I'll let you answer, but my initial reaction is wow that is really selfish and irrational to not even consider the pros and cons.

[BronzeTrinity]

@BronzeTrinity Honestly, if a man does not go through a rational decision-process by weighing the pros and cons, collecting facts, asking advice, and researching an issue like moving to a new city...well I think he is deficient in making decisions and I wouldn't want him to lead me. If I wanted something and the facts made an alternative decision look better, I would go with that decision, especially if it would make my partner happy. What entitles you to have the final say?

[DaSurreal1da]

@BronzeTrinity Why would you assume that I wouldnt weight the pro and cons, collect advice, research what have you and still come to that decision.....And what entitles me to the final say is the fact that its my responsibility for the elevation/protection and financial welfare of the family. If the fam goes broke, who fucked up...Daddy...Me.......First and foremost, So if I have the lion share of the responsibility for the fams welfare, I need to be in position to have final say.

[DaSurreal1da]

@BronzeTrinity In this hypothetical I would have a reason that is equal to her reasons.In the hypothetic her reasons arent dumb,and neither are mine.We just cant agree.So in the end,its not because Im on a power trip.Its because Im probably getting more money in Va and thats where my fam is.I also describe a discussion about the subject,so in that discussion the Pro and Cons of both sides are discussed.How is that selfish and irrational?In this situation we're at an impass.... we stay in Va.

[BronzeTrinity]

@DaSurreal1da Ok, from your earlier comment you didn't mentiont weighing the pros and cons, only what she wants and what you want. You say it's your responsibility for the elevation/protection and financial welfare of the family but isn't it an equal partnership? What if your wife earns more money, do you lose that entitlement? Who says you have the lions share of responsibility? Why do you put yourself up on a pedestal above your wife? Do you really deserve that privilege?

[BronzeTrinity]

@BronzeTrinity Honestly, I couldn't deal with a man who thought he was above me and I was inferior. I could only be with someone who considers me his equal or his other half. Anything else is too old fashioned and scary. It's guys who need to control and have the final say who can get violent if the woman doesn't go along. Other men are more laid back and don't need to give themselves a special role above the woman. I definitely need a guy who doesn't believe in old fashioned gender roles.

[DaSurreal1da]

@BronzeTrinity I didnt mention specifically wieghing of pro and cons because thats what people do when they discuss things from opposing views.Why would you assume otherwise?If my wife earns more money it doesnt matter,I still lead.If she isnt down with that ,we probably arent together in the first place.Who says I have the lions share of the responsibility?The bible and Society at large.There is no aspect of society stating other wise. If Im there and the fam starves,its not moms fault.

[BronzeTrinity]

@DaSurreal1da This is the truth I wanted to hear. You place yourself above your wife no matter how successful she is or how good a decision-maker she might be. To me, that is irrational! The one who earns the most and has the most earning potential should be followed because it is more beneficial financially. The one who leads on a given decision should be the one with the most expertise and experience with that sort of decision. Basing it on gender is as ridiculous as basing it on height!

[DaSurreal1da]

@BronzeTrinity I never placed myself above anyone.If my wife is a better decision maker, cool. We, as a family will make better decisions.If this is irrational to you, fine.I've stated the reasons why I feel this way. If my wife has expertise in a certain area, her counsel is very important.Since she's the expert, we'll probably role with her in that respect. If you feel the leader of the household should be one making more money, do your thing. I talk about this in my vid "Mister Misconception"

[BronzeTrinity]

@DaSurreal1da For the record, "society does not speak" individual people have opinions that many others might have, but that doesn't make it right, wrong, or more reasonable. Hey, people used to think the earth was flat, that didn't make it true. People may say men are better leaders of families (especially men), but that doesn't make it true. Remember, those with the most power will say it's meant to be that way because they are superior, that doesn't make it true. Think outside the box :)

[DaSurreal1da]

@BronzeTrinity I never said society spoke for me.You asked me where I got the Idea the man was responsible for the protection/elevation etc of the family.Society and the bible among other things was the answer.I also never said men are automatically better leaders,but as society views it,thats the default.I was just stating what is.Not how you or I would like it to be.When you reference the earth being flat, people held that belief until it was proven wrong.Has male leadership been proven wrong

[BronzeTrinity]

@DaSurreal1da Okay I hear you. Why do you think you should be the leader?

As for your question, situations where men have done horrible things or made poor choices are examples of failed male leadership. The same goes for females. I just think it should be based on past decisions and skills and never on gender.

[DaSurreal1da]

@BronzeTrinity Check my vid "Mister Misconception" it answers most of what you ask.

[shasanni]

thank u sir =)

hopefully these type of women don't take a huge offense to what i said. i'm not trying to put women down, but they need to know what they are doing is counterproductive. we all know that car and house won't hold her at night.