31: Equality - Suffrage and UK voting rights

[blacktigerpaw1]

Cont... One need only ask themself: if women truly were oppressed, why did people refer to countries as she, and called ships "she"? Why were women who were executed were to be treated with the utmost dignity?

Reminds me of the "witch hunts" that feminists call a women's genocide. In reality, only a few were killed. I find it hard to believe that men "oppressed" women for a large part of history without women doing anything.

[blacktigerpaw1]

Damn, look at all the "Votes for Women" videos in the related videos box. Load of bullshit if there ever was one. It's amazing how history has been completed skewered. In reality, it always had a bias, but never one to magnitudes such as this. History is meant to show the records of what happened, not a victimhood tale. In history textbooks, all the "idols" and "issues in history" are all about women.

[blacktigerpaw1]

Cont. I'm tired of seeing all this "women's oppression" bullshit when women know full well that they had everything on a silver platter. History shows that society respected women, else it would have collapsed. Now look where we are now: feeling is preferred over fact.

[blacktigerpaw1]

Lol. The sufragettes were hypocrites. While the whined for the vote, they gave out white feathers to men who didn't join the war. So while they campaigned for "equality", they knew full well that they were never going to step foot into any battlefield. Sufragettes were nothing but a bunch of heathens who wanted special privileges for themselves, and only themselves. I don't understand why people think feminism is about equality when it never was.

[utubehayter]

@blacktigerpaw1

The reason women were given the right to vote, is because they proved themselves to be the loyal subjects of their respective elites, even sending off their brothers and sons to die in wars of imperalism. It is the bloody deal they made.. and the world is still paying and will continue to pay for in the blood of men.

[blacktigerpaw1]

@utubehayter I hear this word, "elite" a lot. Who exactly is this "elite"? Is there any real definition or is it subjective?

[utubehayter]

@blacktigerpaw1

Its sorta both, actually. What it would mean is the power players, whoever they are. The special interest groups, the politicians, the lobbyists, the war profiteers, the bankers.. whoever they are. Their identity is not important, the nature of their interest (power over other human beings) is.

[blacktigerpaw1]

@utubehayter Well, if we don't know who these "elite" people are, is it safe to assume that everyone has the ability to be an elite? Anyone who profits over anything is an elite? Human nature is greedy, and profit is a result of greed, so can it be true that we all have the ability to be an "elite" individual? I'm not arguing, just offering a bit of insight to people's claims of the elite. I hear it a lot and there's a lot of opinions on it. But who they are shall remain a mystery.

[utubehayter]

@blacktigerpaw1

"is it safe to assume that everyone has the ability to be an elite?"

Yes, if they can play the game of power.

"Anyone who profits over anything is an elite?"

No. The gains made by involuntary interaction, would be a defining characteristic of elite, of course these gains are made with the sanction of the victim.

Its not a particular group of people.. its the position (or behind the wheel if you think of society as a car).

[Candyliz2003]

Wasn't the issue for the suffragettes mostly because propertied women had no say? And wasn't it those propertied, educated women who were fighting for their rights?

Are you suggesting that they were selfish for fighting for their right to determine what would happen to their property?

I hear a lot of talk about women as selfish. I also hear a lot of extremely nasty talk about feminists. What happened to you to become so anti-woman?

[manwomanmyth]

@Candyliz2003 lol. The only "nasty talk" is the vitriol, ignorance and tired shaming language coming out of the mouths of Feminists.

What happened to you to become so anti-man?

[Candyliz2003]

@manwomanmyth

Have you read through the "comments" following your videos?

There is some very disturbing hate-filled dialogue.

Is that your goal? To incite men to further hatred toward women?

Why not find a way to seek equanimity in order to dialogue and find a way to come to agreement.

All this hate does nothing.

[manwomanmyth]

@Candyliz2003 I'll be frank with you. You seem to be intent on using the words "hate" and "hatred" in a feeble attempt to smear myself, this channel and the large numbers of intelligent, thoughtful and interesting commenters that have come here in support of the message.

I suspect you 'feel' that if you say the word "hate" enough times, it will magically become true. It won't.

Real haters are not welcome here. This means you. Now, go away and take your vile accusations with you.

[capturedpilot]

@Candyliz2003 Hey, Candy - this guy is just reporting historical fact, fact that throws women in a bad light, as usual. It's not a matter of being 'anti-woman' - it's a matter of identifying the truth. Don't you want the truth? Aren't you, apart from anything else, just bloody bored with feminist lies?

[Candyliz2003]

@capturedpilot If you have an honest interest in the truth then why is my questioning negativity toward women so threatening?

Have you read the "comments" for these anti-feminist videos?

I'm tired of being painted with the same brush as the angry "hyper"feminists that are as representative of feminists as rapists are of men in general.

Bad apples are in every bushel - you don't throw away the entire bushel.

I think the name's the problem. Let's stop calling it feminism - is humanism better?

[pik1forme]

@Candyliz2003 Sure as soon as we hear of you protesting for thing's that men and boy's are failing or falling behind in.Not gonna happen is it?

[Candyliz2003]

@pik1forme

That's not true.

While many laugh off the idea of men desiring to work in historically feminine professions (see Hooter's and Flight Attendant gender discrimination) these men have been supported by NOW and other feminist groups in seeking equality.

[pik1forme]

@Candyliz2003

Why stop there?

I don't see anyone demanding equal numbers of men in the nursing or school system.How about healthcare spending,child custody,male domestic violence shelter's...etc..

[Candyliz2003]

@pik1forme

Honestly, I don't know enough about these things but if they are unfair then they should be made right.

[pik1forme]

@Candyliz2003

Another thing,you seem to pick the equality that is preferable,why not demanding that you come home from war in bodybags as often as men or workplace injuries and deaths?

[Candyliz2003]

@pik1forme Dude - I'm ex-Navy (8.5 yrs Vietnam era).

I wasn't allowed sea-duty and WANTED IT.

Women want to be in every position available!

And being denied the right just makes us want it more.

Watch "G I Jane" for a pretty good assessment as to why women are kept out of the more dangerous positions.

And you'll get to see Demi.

[AntagonisticEnemy]

@Candyliz2003 Women Want to be in every position available. Well that is nice but can you peform in every position on par with your male counterparts. Oh wait no we have to lower the bar then you can have positions that you truly do not deserve. To meet political correctness instead of reality

G.I jane is not reality it is moive. It is not the Norm for females very rare in fact. So rare you have more chance of getting bite by a alligator and a crocodile in the same day.

[utubehayter]

@Candyliz2003

"Bad apples are in every bushel - you don't throw away the entire bushel."

Actually that is exactly what you do.

[Candyliz2003]

@utubehayter

No - you don't.

Anyone with any experience with produce knows better - unless you're talking about some corporate production facility that wastes enough food to feed a village.

[utubehayter]

@Candyliz2003

Oh really? In that case, I will purchase corporate produce only. They care about my safety far more than your "local" producers.

[Candyliz2003]

@utubehayter

You find trolling fun don't you?

[capturedpilot]

@Candyliz2003 That is such a boring arguement: someone disagrees with you, so you accuse them of feeling 'threatened.' Yawn.

Meanwhile, here is the truth: all Feminism is hate, hatred of men and of women. Ironically, the final goal of Feminism is the total destruction of the female soul. The destruction of men's strength is merely the first stage of that final goal.

[Candyliz2003]

@capturedpilot You said: "..historical fact, fact that throws women in a bad light, as usual."

Were you implying something categorical about women in a bad light? Like that's what is to be seen "usually"?

I don't think I've ever heard so much anti-woman dialogue as I have by viewing these videos and reading the accompanying "comments".

You guys rail against feminists as man-hating but what I hear from you is no better.

In one of these a guy whined he couldn't rape and another said "man-up".

WTF?

[utubehayter]

@Candyliz2003

You are trying to blame the messenger for the message, the presenter for the facts in an attempt to shame him. Great! Anything else you can do to confirm that women cannot think?

[Candyliz2003]

@utubehayter

Just keep validating your name and the point that I've been trying to get you guys to understand about how you sound like the "haters" in the new feminism you're complaining about.

[utubehayter]

@Candyliz2003

You really think we care what YOU think of men? Oh boy, delusions of grandeur. Quite frankly, other than maintaining a demand that people ignore reality, ignore facts, and not repeat them to others, what other defense do you have? Nothing. Thus, blaming shaming and hoping men just deny obvious facts, is what you can try.

To be sure, some men will... until the women they take risks with, turn on them and suck them dry of all life.

[Candyliz2003]

@utubehayter

Do you care about what women think, in general?

I care about what men think. I happen to enjoy men (that's why I find this so disturbing).

Men who hate women or put them down are another story.

AGAIN - ALL I'M TRYING TO GET YOU TO DO IS LOOK AT YOUR OWN HATEFUL DIALOGUE.

You do nothing but prove true the complaints that SOME feminists have brought against men.

All I've done is say "look at what you're saying - you're as bad as that which you complain about."

[utubehayter]

@Candyliz2003

"Do you care about what women think, in general?"

Nope. I already know that part. It is amply displayed in behavior of women (including yourself), thru history and feminists. Thank god for feminists. They brought out the true nature of women out in the open for everyone to see, so now it sticks out like a big flag that identifies where women really stand.

[Candyliz2003]

@utubehayter

You lose.

You ARE what you snarl and whine about - a harpy standing on the sidelines wishing for that which you will never have because you don't have the social skills or the brains to get it.

What you've just said proves it.

[utubehayter]

@Candyliz2003

I do not snarl and whine about anything. I simply point out history and people like you flock around baffled but incapable to understand what is really happening. My facts vs. your feeling/emotions about why I say the things I say... we all know its not about winning or losing, but shaming people who will bring reality into context.

But thanks for repeating the tired old shaming attacks. You guys are so predictable, one author even has written book about it.

[AntagonisticEnemy]

@Candyliz2003 Because G.I Jane IS Really DEAL stuff well no its a hollywood feminist wet dream. Women can not in the large part keep up with man. A average male can outpeform a above average female. Females are inherently weaker physical then men. You do not peform at the MEN's fitness requirements. We literally have to lower the bar so you can get over it

[OnTheLooseGoose]

I could be wrong, but I also remember seeing footage of suffragists (perhaps suffragettes as well) sending aid to soldiers, and helping with issues on the home front. Please don't misinform people. You don't know how it feels to know that you could be stopped from doing what you really want to because of people's pre-misconceptions and stereotypes. I do not believe I should be judged on anything but my character and ability, leave issues of sex and race to the side please. (Done!) :)

[capturedpilot]

@OnTheLooseGoose Okay, I am judging you on your character and ability: your comment seems to indicate that you are delusional and moronic.

[utubehayter]

@OnTheLooseGoose

Oh yes, the same suffragettes who ostracized any anti-war spokesWOMAN from speaking on their behalf.. The same suffragettes who shamed men into fighting for empires.. Oh, they cared so much about men!

[Candyliz2003]

@utubehayter

You really DO hate women, don't you?

Or are you really just a "YouTube Hater" TROLL like your name implies?

You know I've tried repeatedly to discuss with you but you are too far gone on your woman-hating crusade.

[utubehayter]

@Candyliz2003

Nope. I just acknowledge the reality of female behavior. Sorry if it sounds hateful to you. All I am doing is stating facts that are easy to observe, easy to verify and easy to witness up to a level where it really makes you sick to think that women can be what they are. Not my fault... I do not mind control women into doing what they do. Do I?

[OnTheLooseGoose]

I agree, that this could be seen as the women 'helping' for personal gain (if men were off fighting, women could prove that they're perfectly capable of work, which is what happened.) But I disagree with your statement that women were completely focusing on them selves. Most of the campaigning (Emily Davison and the kings horse, the cat and mouse act of 1913) was before the war. (to be continued!)

[OnTheLooseGoose]

And I learned about men not having the vote until 1918 in my GCSE history, and it's all to do with our country becoming more equality minded (the Liberal Reforms (benefits and fairer employment laws, pensions etc.) were introduced a little bit earlier. Also, Suffragettes had 'the whit rose movement' during the war before conscription, and men joining the army was compulsory.They would (quite unfairly) attach a white rose to the clothing of any young man that had chosen not to fight.(to continue)

[OnTheLooseGoose]

Sorry, but if women weren't allowed to vote at all, regardless of how much property the owned (and I'm pretty sure some women who were the oldest sibling would have inherited property if they had no brothers), how is that NOT discriminatory?:)

[oxygentheives]

in further education we are currently taught about the campaigners for womens votes not that men did have the vote. If you look over a modern text book mens struggle and campaign for suffrage is mentioned thoroughly. Men who are quoted who stood for "total suffrage" did not include women.

I think your problem lies with what is sociologically termed Radical Feminism, they exploit women as much as men and are obstructive to actual equality.

[ShriekoftheVulture3]

I don't see why we should care that women could supposedly not vote. As you pointed out, most men didn't have the vote until ten years before women did, and of course women were protected in many ways .Feminists seem to be under the impression that the world back then was exactly as it was now, the only difference was that women were "Oppressed" which is horseshit

[NewMeNow2000]

Queen Victoria is my heroine!

[victorsvoice]

Manwomanmyth, I've tried to find the answer to this but I don't trust the sources where I find the information so maybe you could help me out. Do you know if the whole voting system was similar in the US?

[manwomanmyth]

@victorsvoice I'm afraid I only studied the English system. The US system is something I may research one day but I suspect I would find the same general situation: property rights trumping individual rights (and of course, women misrepresenting facts to make it all about some imagined female oppression).

[kbest819]

@victorsvoice Look up Women's suffrage and then cross reference Universal suffrage on Wikipedia. "In most countries, full universal suffrage – with the inclusion of women – followed universal male suffrage by about ten to twenty years." Hope this helps.

[blacktigerpaw1]

@kbest819 Mmm, Wikipedia isn't really a good source. Considering the editing wars, it's hard to imagine any good info up on that site.

[kbest819]

@blacktigerpaw1 One would only have to disprove the evidence displayed there. Not a difficult task. Considering the info they have on the topic and how it reflects the info in this video and other sources it seems to be accurate. I'm a fan of new and more accurate info. If you find better evidence feel free to share. Thanx!

[blacktigerpaw1]

@kbest819 I recommend the site: "The Debunker's Domain" and the MsInformation section. It's a great resource.

[alexwebster90]

You're right on half the things and wrong on a lot extra, yes men have to behave a lot more politically correct and cautious nowadays but the difference in gender is still seen in women's culture and life choices such as shorter careers than men and juggling part time work with parenting etc, this is societies values that get passed down and even as a man i kinda hav to think some women never really have a chance to do everything men can. then again the reverse is also true

[johnmalory26]

Feminists are also the one who bring extremists to Europe.

[panathinakosbear]

Wow, that last part really hit home. Thanks MWM

[heyheyolek]

Another is born

Another shall fall

This day men will die!

[oOKIERANOo95]

it's a issue that has built up throughout history, as always political correctness has gone mad!

[fiona712gome]

But it was mostly only men who owned land to voting was still discriminating against women

[manwomanmyth]

@fiona712gome You are incorrect and are evidently stuck in the infinite loop that is female-centrism.

Watch the film again. Read the comments here. If you still don't get it after that, you need to be watching other channels. Try the Disney channel.

[CarbonSXMonkey]

It is really easy to dismiss a generation of women that are no longer present and make superpositions on their behalf. This is disrespectful and attempts to "pigeon hole" females into a manageable group, that can be therefore speculated upon and cast an unwavering opinion upon based on the fact that that they can not defend themselves. I wonder how African Americans would feel if people made the same assumptions about their ancestors?.

[CarbonSXMonkey]

This documentary is a bit of a laugh. If a person considers a woman as a Usurper or a Leech, then surely the remedy is simple. Allow them to "have at it.". When a person denies basic a basic human right on the grounds of gender, then surely the individual involved feels intimidated. Allow life to unfold (desiderata). Then after all avenues are exhausted, one can sit back and have rise to comment. In the meantime, this doco is unfounded, without merit and based on supposition.

[bluefootedpig]

@CarbonSXMonkey I can tell by your comment that you didn't get the point. There was no sexism involved with voting. It was tied to land ownership, which makes sense because if you own the land, then you have a vested interest in the country doing well. And voting is not a human right. If you think that, you need to look up what a human right is. But linking voting to people who have vested interest is key and is now being lost. My property taxes go up because people without homes vote to.

[starquant]

Two points: If land owners had the vote (and indeed some women did own land at that time), did that mean as a Woman owing Land, that she could vote?. Secondly: You mention something about Feminine views about the way history is taught. Here's a little known Fact. Did you know that Women served on British War ships as "Powder Monkeys" . At the end of the Battle of Trafalgar, all male crew members received Medals for service and the Women were denied any recognition and received nothing.

[starquant]

@starquant cont: I was never taught at school that in 1805 that Women were game fully employed and saw active service on British War Ships. I was watching a documentary on the "Worst jobs in History", to find that out. It is actually the first reference I have ever seen of it. There is documentation to show that when the Women arrived (thinking they would be honored for their service), they were summarily told to "buggar off". History is and will alway be biased based on Gender and Stereotypes.

[manwomanmyth]

@starquant I would hazard that you've been watching too much television. Women did not serve as powder monkeys. This false claim has been dealt with in Feminism part 3 on this channel. I too, saw the show you mention and it is just one example of the Feminist revision of history. This sort of attempt to alter the historical record may possibly be connected with some sort of collective guilt that women and girls have never been treated with the same callous disregard as were men and boys.

[starquant]

@manwomanmyth thanks for marginalizing me in a Public forum, to the point I have to defend myself. No, I do NOT watch too much TV and I could make the same comment about you as well. I choose not to do that out of respect. I would appreciate the same consideration. If degrading another serves your purpose in oder to make a point, then your credibility is LOST. My comment on this point is accurate and despite your accusations, still stands. The documents are real and are on public display.

[manwomanmyth]

@starquant Please calm down and realise that my comment was meant in jest. My comments to you have been perfectly respectful and so please refrain from remarking on my credibility or lack thereof. You are in no position to decide such things.

[starquant]

@manwomanmyth again you attempt to marginalize me, I would appreciate it if you would cease. I am not upset and do not require "calming down" as you suggest and also pleading your case on the basis of a joke also does you no favors either. If you wish to speak with an individual on their own terms, I suggest you make an effort to do so. I also never claimed that you were being disrespectful either. Keep your "eye on the prize" and refrain from SEMANTICS... thankyou. My position is my own affair

[starquant]

@manwomanmyth I also notice you failed to respond to my first question. I will answer that on your behalf,, since I work in the records department I know the figures on Female Land owners in the time that you refer to. Women owned 18% of all Lands in England and NO , they DID NOT have to right to VOTE. You try and subscribe that there was an equity or "fairness" amongst the Landowners of that time. I can assure you there was not. A Woman was a second class citizen at that time, deal with it.

[manwomanmyth]

@starquant I did answer your question but you evidently failed to understand it. Read it again. Most people did not have the right to vote but you, and Feminists in general, attempt to spin the idea that women that could not vote were somehow MORE oppressed than men that could not. It's called female-centrism and you seem an ardent advocate. For REAL "second class" citizens look into conscription, the Titanic disaster, the Battle of the Somme and "Black Lung" disease. You might learn something.

[starquant]

@manwomanmyth oh for Christs sake, now you think I can't read. Well thanks mate. That's the whole issue isn't it. you think your dealing with an intellectual, but your not.

Your whole argument has no foundation, so you resort to "my dick is bigger than yours". Look, at the end of the day, when your own daughter lives in Poverty and has 6 kids to 5 different fathers, don't blame a WOMAN for a situation YOU created. Simple really, or will you blame a woman for that as well?.

[manwomanmyth]

@starquant I did not say you could not read, I said you failed to understand. The rest of your comment is, with respect, borderline babbling.

Regarding a woman having "6 kids to 5 different fathers", the relevancy escapes me, I'm afraid. However, to answer your question, yes, it would be her fault for choosing to have children with five men. I have films to be published later this year dealing with Reproductive Rights and Irresponsible Mothers. I suggest you look out for them.

[starquant]

@manwomanmyth yay a new topic. Ok lets discuss this (without name calling). A woman breeds because she can't earn a living beyond a basic income. ( The U,N shows 80% of minimum wage earners are women 2009). Young women do not want to be breeding machines (I can assure you). It is a situation or circumstance, or second chance option (if you like), when females tire of working for "Nigger" wages and actively seek a softer option. In my NEXT life I WILL NOT BE A WOMAN, I PROMISE YOU.

[TwistediMedia]

@manwomanmyth I have read these posts with interest. When another Youtuber labels another "youtuber" with a term that is generally accepted as a derogatory term (as in this instance a "feminist") without proof or without substance, I suspect the "battle" is lost. Starquant is merely stating facts and "standing her ground". When a Male does this to a woman he degrades other males who do not think this way. Women deserve more respect. You degrade women for what purpose and for what goal?.

[manwomanmyth]

@TwistediMedia Interesting that you assume Starquant is female and that you assume this is somehow relevant to this exchange... Further, Starquant has not been labeled by me as anything. His or her ARGUMENTS on the other hand, I have indeed labeled as female-centric.

Further misrepresentation of what I have said like this will be treated as the trolling it so obviously is. No further warnings will follow.

[TotalEquality]

@TwistediMedia When you wrote this; "When a Male does this to a woman he degrades other males who do not think this way. Women deserve more respect", your whole argument is nulled. It is thinking like this why videos such as these exist and why the western world is such a torid/messed place to live in. So Twisted, WHY exactly do women 'deserve' more respect?? What have they done to deserve this respect. Respect of another human being is earned not a automatic or a given right.

[dalriada842]

@manwomanmyth The timeline doesn't show the unmarried women who were householders, getting the vote in 1869. I've just watched the last of the videos on your channel. They're a revelation! Do you have any more still to upload? Have you considered the YouTube partner program, so you can show the films in their entirety?

[manwomanmyth]

@dalriada842 Yes, unmarried women who were property owners AND married women under certain conditions, had various voting rights in the UK from 1830 or so. However, I chose to focus on 1918 and 1928 because those were the times when parliament enacted universal suffrage rather than the more complex situation of local voting rights before then.

My website will house the films in their entirety, I have no interest in a YT partner program.

[dalriada842]

@manwomanmyth I also saw that program, and was surprised by the woman. I wonder what the medal was made of. If it was silver or gold, there would also be a financial incentive to try to claim it.

[manwomanmyth]

@starquant Not even all land owners had the right to vote, it was about the amount of money it was worth. So, through most of the time leading up to the Reform Acts, approximately 95% of people in the England did not have the right to vote. The law was drafted to exclude women from voting in the same way that the law for military conscription was drafted to exclude women (no complaints from women about that). The difference with voting law was that the REAL issue was class, not sex.

[lolli9408]

This is so bias.

[leytonarms]

i wonder what roots spurred such movements

[comedownmadness]

: "women are no good at technical subjects" (paraphrase).

"the sheer depth of selfishness inherent in women"

"(womens power) has gone around in cycles" the above damage the arguement. sterotyping any group negatively, followed by misinformation & a controversial statement made without substantiation.

A shame because MWM has some gr8 points made very well in his films. Stupid statements like the above just make him look mysogynistic - which is as equally wrong as misandry.

[manwomanmyth]

There are a number of ways I could respond to you and this selective sampling of my commentary has been done before. As I have said elsewhere, take what is of value and ditch the rest.

In the context of the films, I believe my use of stark phraseology is appropriate and, crucially, I make it abundantly clear throughout the series precisely to which women I refer. These are Feminist women, not ALL women. Context is everything and sadly, many people seem intent on missing the wood for the trees.

[comedownmadness]

It doesn't matter to whom you are refering when you use the word "women" if you are going to stereotype. You are pre-judging which is the foundation of intolerance and prejudice. You are either for equality or you are not.

BTW, can you name a past culture where women dominated and held the power, as your psychologist friend claims without evidence in this film?

Just playing devils advocate, btw, as I feel your films have merit, but are unbalanced and often without objectivity.

[manwomanmyth]

I appreciate your comments and I value criticism highly. I am afraid I sense that we have little to no common ground as regards the use of terms such as equality, stereotype, power and prejudice; so enough said on that.

However, on another note, I confess to being somewhat glad that you found the films unbalanced and often without objectivity - that was very much my intention in some parts! They represent this man's point of view and, shockingly in our times, are actually positive towards men.

[johntheother]

outstanding. favorited and 5-stared

[pinegrove33]

Man, I just wish there were more of these to watch. Loved them all from start to finish.