Seles was better than Graf. I don't care who doesn't agree with it but it's fact... just like it's factual that a Steffi Graf lunatic fan stabbed Monica.
Damn Hingis for blowing such a golden opportunity to win the French! WTF?
She is 10-5 H2H against Monica. Even 3-2 when Seles was #1 pre-stabbing. And 4-1 post-stabbing.
There is not even ONE surface (clay, grass, HC, indoor carpet) where Seles leads Graf H2H. And there is not even ONE major tournament Seles has won more often than Graf.
Seles was about to become the best player ever. You can think, in denial, that Graf still would have been better than Seles. BUT Seles was BETTER than Graf, and if it wasnt for the psychopath than Seles would have remained better than Graf.
I growth watching Stefi Graf playing tennis. Yesterday evening I saw the new Wii spot with her, i was happy to see her again. When I was a teenager the world of tennis was rule by Stefi Graf, her husband Andrea Agasi, Pete Sampras and Boris Becker.
Okay I way too young when Graff was around but I've been really interested in her tennis recently. I've noticed she doesn't do a lot of topspin backhands, can someone tell me why? I read somewhere when she did it, it was always a winner.. so I'm a bit curious. Thanks x
Hingis took Graf took Graf too seriously. She was afraid of losing - especially to a player she had dismissed as "too old" and who was injured when she took over women's tennis in 1997. Terribly afraid ...
hingis had this one. it's too bad the french crowd influenced things for their favorite the way they usually do. 10,000 against 1 girl; they must feel big about themselves. hingis's game here was spot on; she became a bit too much of a counterpuncher towards her later years. and graf was good but no way would she have as many slams as navratalova or everit without seles getting stabbed.
As much as I resent Steffi for winning 22 slams because of the Monica Seles stabbing, I was a fan of hers on that day as the Martina Hingis arrogance got that entire stadium against her and I was pulling for Steffi as well for winning and I was very delighted that she beat Hingis.
In the summer of 1992 Steffi said she was playing her best tennis again, and she still lost to Seles at the French 1992, lost the US Open badly to Vicario (Seles KILLED in the final), the WTA Championships, and 1993 Aussie Open Final, where she was thoroughly overpowered by Seles.
She was second best in the world, even at her best.
And in her prime, in 1989, Graf lost a set in THEIR FIRST MATCH, when Seles was 15.
Graf had trouble with Seles from the VERY FIRST BALL......
@Hoffenheim08 we both say same things...but what i am trying to say is that she really wanted to beat graf in a SLAM and with that being a final , not some tournament in tokyo
no1 even rememers that she won againt graf in tokyo, i cant even remember what round
im telling you, she would not have crossed the net in tokyo if it was played clay... who ares she was so uptight in this match cos it was a slam final and she really wanted to vaildate herself. she was
Yes, of course Hingis badly wanted to beat Steffi in a slam. She knew that this would be very important legacy-wise.
But at the same time she was very afraid to lose. To lose against a player she had already dismissed as "too old". She could imagine how the tennis world would ridicule her if she really lost to this old warhorse.
And this thought slowly crept up her spine when it came to crunch time ...
No, Steffi was the better one. It's not even a debate because really Steffi and Martina Navratilova are the ones untouched at the top. Look at their results, but also look at the revolution they did. Tennis is the results, but also how they play, what they bring to the game - like the technique, the stance, the poise, the tactics, styles, fitness. Steffi was also a little lucky because she was born with movement and speed and the MIND, but Seles could have worked to be fit.
Actually, you have to rely on facts. Belief is nice, but useless. And fact are, Seles was superior to Graf, at a younger age, and took Grafs number one......
@pieldeoliva81 I totally agree. Graf and Navratilova are at the top (maybe including Evert), but the exclusive group of top female players ever of all time is Graf, Navratilova, Evert, Court-Smith, Connolly, King, Seles and Wills Moody. Seles is in that and she achieved so much, although early in her career. I agree though, she had her chances to really focus on fitness. When you're young, you're naturally speedy and light, but you lose this as you get older, especially if you're an athlete.
The Seles vs Graf argument will rage on, but facts are facts, Seles was superior in early 1993, no doubt. Seles was/IS the most successful teen phenom in open era history, better than Graf, Evert, Austin, and Hingis......
In the Aussie Final 1993, Seles totally overpowered Graf: 7-1 margin in aces, and 31-21 margin in total winners. More FOREHAND/ BKHD Winners, aces, service winners, higher MPH on her serve....she dominated in EVERY category......
Seles was better than Graf, at a younger age. At 19, to the day, Monica already had won 8 Slam titles.....DOUBLE the titles Graf had won at the same age.
Sory, this is a fact. Not to mention ofcourse.......
Seles PLAYED STEFFI, in her ERA, and beat her.....Graf had ample chances to reclaim her number one....
Steffi HAS NEVER HAD a winning record vs Martina Nav, who was NUMBER 2 , when Steffi won the Golden Slam. and Martina was waaaaay past her prime.
In contrast, Seles lost her first three matches against Graf (she was 15....), and then WON THE NEXT 4 OUT OF 7.
A young Seles had a FAR superior record against Graf (2-3)than a young Steffi vs Martina (1-4) and Chris (0-5).......who were 13 and 16 years older than Steffi.
Steffi has a winning record from 1987-94 (8-4) over Navratilova. We know from Seles fans that the first year of matches don't count because the younger player is still too young.
Martina was "waaaay past her prime in 1988"?
But had won at least 2 slams in the 5 years before that?
And was able to beat Seles 7 times in the next 5 years?
I'm on record with making fun of dumb Selestards like you for not wanting to count Seles's first 3 losses and - convienently - starting to count with Seles's first win (Even then Seles is only 5-7 H2H against Graf).
Not tough to find out.......just need to know your way around a computer.
Now, do you not find it a bit sad that you talk to yourself, pretending to be two different people, posting to yourself, agreeing with yourself.......????
Do you not see how sad that is?
Do yourself a favor. Talk to yourself under different screen names all you like, just don't involve me and I won't list your other screen names.......
Are you denying that McClernard(s) (among MANY OTHERS) are other screen names you have created? I hope not, considering that you already admitted this on another thread after I confronted you...
And ANSWER my question:
Why do you talk to yourself, on a computer? Why have you created alter egos to agree with you, pretending you are two different people?
Steffi Graf isn't terribly interesting, doesn't know you, and doesn't care about you.
If it is really this important to you, then so be it. But at the very least, be honest in your fanaticism......don't make up other identities/personas and pretend, it's simply creepy.....
And lay off Seles. She is a fine person, and If you had a daughter who was stabbed in the back, i think you would have a very different perspective on all this.
Good Luck, and fuck off..... Both meant sincerely...
Not tough to find out.......just need to know your way around a computer.
Now, do you not find it a bit sad that you talk to yourself, pretending to be two different people, posting to yourself, agreeing with yourself.......????
Do you not see how sad that is?
Do yourself a favor. Talk to yourself under different screen names all you like, just don't involve me and I won't list your other screen names.......
@Hoffenheim08 Graf 7 wins against Seles was either against 15 year old baby Monica or fat stabbed depressed Monica. But between 1990-1993 when Seles became a top player and showing her real talent, she lead Graf 4-3 including 3-1 in grandslam finals proving that she was #1 and Graf was #2. Also Graf was limited to 1 slam a year, until the stabbing, when Graf regained control of the tour winning half of her slam total when it was supposed to be Monica's era..
4 of Seles's wins were against a slumping Steffi in 90-93, the fifth against an old Steffi a few months before retirement. All of those wins were on slow courts.
Yes, Seles was #1 until the stabbing.
But the mid-/end-90s weren't supposed to be Seles's era.
@Hoffenheim08 graf slumping? she slumped until april 1993? what a coincidence. here's what was happening: evert --> navratilova --> graf --> seles --> hingis --> williams. INSTEAD it was: evert --> navratilova --> graf --> seles --> graf --> hingis --> williams. Sorry, that knife changed the course of women's history, Graf even lost the no.1 spot to Aranxta. the 95 us open proved that seles would have continued dominating until hingis, a fat seles coming from nowhere almost beat improved graf.
She slumped until March 1992, the end of the blackmail scandal. From then on she steadily improved until spring 1994. Then she was hampered with injuries until winter 1995; Sanchez could take over. Then it was all Steffi again until at the beginning of 1997 her knee fell apart.
Navratilova was #1 for a long time at the end of the 70s. Then she fell back to #3 behind Austin and Evert. And took over #1 against for most of time in the mid-80s. But Evert was #1 several months even then.
Nonsense....Graf was gifted by the stabbing of Seles.....from 1991 to March of 1993, Graf had won 2 slams in over two years, losing 3 out of 4 slam finals to the dominant Seles......after the stabbing, Graf Graf won 4 slams in a row.....
Graf was majorly aided by parche.....and every major figure in tennis has said so.....
SELES lost 67 % of the time. 10 of 15 matches against Steffi.
If we exclude both 1990 Seles wins when Steffi was extremely distracted by the blackmail scandal it is 10 fo 13 matches. Which gives Steffi a 77 % winning percentage!
this is certainly one of the best grand slam matches, not because of the drama, but zhe level is outstanding particularly considering difficult conditions..beautiful rallies
Steffi had always been my fav when I started training tennis, and my teenage sensation Martina came along and here they were... shouldn't they have had fun playing against and together, not as rivals but as greats of the tennis history.
I think there was a poll done some time ago which voted this as the best ever women's tennis match. Certainly for the drama I'd agree. Amazing how year after year you'd get great women's finals at the French but the last 3 setter was back in 2001. We've had precious few great Slam finals on the women's side over recent years. At least the 2 this year so far have been a lot better so maybe we are warming up for a true classic at either theUS or Wimbledon. We are certainly due.
Yes, that is what I believe and many others. The best period in women's tennis was from the 70s to the 1996, especially the late 80s to 1996. It was the peak and perfect meeting of power, skill, tactic, technique, professionalism, class, nice personalities, styles, etc. That is why the best matches are in this period and continue to be uploaded onto youtube! Perhaps the 70s to mid-90s was the best period ever for both men's and women's tennis.
Thanks for uploading the vid , reminded me of the time where I still watched professional tennis. One of the things which made Graf the great player she is/was is her attitude her technique might not be the best bu she was always willing to go the extra mile and work work work
I'm not disputing that the Dutchess had a great technique just not the best or I should say best finess? :) But beautiful doesn't always win hard work, effort and determination usualy does and THAT she has and had in spades.
Graf is one my favourites....Hingis was a very good tennis player too but her attitude was a different story....Great match though...Thanks for the upload.
I so wanted Hingis to win at least one French Open, she was too good not to have. Oh well, at least her brand of tennis was just wonderful to watch. I can't imagine anyone, for a long time anyway, being capable of replicating her innate talent.
No kidding, especially considering her brand of chess like tennis. No reason she should have lost to Iva Majoli in 1997, just one match away from the Grand Slam.
i know the legend graf is, but her tennis is ugly. no finesse. that awful grip for those cannon forehands and that sliced backhand shows she had no variety. still, she was the champion of clay and grass, which really baffles me lol. hingis was always a pleasure to watch. impecable shots and brilliant strategy all the time. miss her a lot, even she was a spoiled brat
@Hoffenheim08 yeah I played tennis for 11 years. Graf had great movement, but her shot making bored me. She had a great sliced backhand and THE most powerful flat forehand on the tour. Here's Graf's game: "slice it, slice it, slice it until they give you a shorter, higher ball so I can punish it with my fh" that was it... It definitely worked though.
On the other hand, Martina barely put power in her shots except against Davenport. Her finesse was beautiful
I love them both,martina fro her intelligence in the court,and steffi for her power and her inplication in the game,she uses so much angles to put the opponent away for the ball
Steffi was always a little arrogant, but she had the utmost respect for her opponents. Listen to her talk about Evert and Navrat when she was coming up. Because she had such respect for her opponents she was concerned she could lose to them, because she was concerned she might lose she always trained harder and tried to play better. Because of that she won matches like this. Shame Hingis wasted her brilliant talent because of her dim-witted presumption Graf was 'old' and 'just a runner'.
@sebbyknight yes I completely agree. eventhough serena always say she didnt play her best if she loss a match. she never fails to gave credits to her opponents nad especially give respect to all the great legend
Never seen a player come apart so completely like Hingis did. One of the craziest matches and most memorable matches I've ever seen - thanks for posting them. I wasn't a fan of Graf before this match, but I appreciated her a lot more after!
i think most look past HINGIS behaviour because she did have the greatness to back it up anyway. she was that good and dominant back then.. and as a young girl i guess she was not guided well so they let it all get into her huge head!
but she was real good in her time. backe when their were still rallies instead of really short points full of power, grunting and balls on the line!
I don't know why people feel the need to defend her behavior. Calling someone 'old' and saying 'their time has passed' is utterly ridiculous. It makes you look really bad when you end up losing to the person too. And don't use the excuse that her management made her do it. What about the Williams sisters, Chris Evert, Steffi Graf? Who all played as teens and didn't say anything bad about their opponents? No, Martina said all that on her own, and I'm glad she lost.
I couldn't agree more! That remarks of Hingis were an astounishing lack of respect for perhaps the best female player of all time (certainly the most versatile having won each of the grandslams at least 4 times) that was always respectfull the her opponents herself. Hingis made these comments in a time that Graf was absent due to injuries for a very long time so she couldn't defend herself on the court either to proof Hingis was wrong. I'm so glad Hingis was put on her place and lost to Graf!
It was alot about her trash talk before the match. She was talking about a change of generations and it would be time for Steffi to retire because a new breed of players were coming up. In the match she grinned very arrogant in the first set when Grad played a good ball n stuff, which faded when she noticed she is gonna lose. I think it's not completly her fault she behaved like she did. Her mother and her management gave her the impression she was the only one and only in the WTA of these days.
Let us not forget that actually there was a BIG gap in Graf's resume called Seles. Seles was the dominant player in the early nineties, taking over the number one spot and defeating Graf consistently. If it weren't for Seles being stabbed, Graf would have NEVER won all those titles.
I can sort of agree with both of you. Seles was an awesome force in the early 90s but like Hoffenheim08 said, Graf had a loss of form at the same time although she was returning to form in 93. jason101other, Seles never defeated Graf consistently as Graf was 2-0 in 1991 and 1-1 in 1992. When you consider how brilliant Steffi played in the first half of 94 and in 95 and 96, I'd argue that an in-form Graf would have a slight edge against a peak Seles. It'd still be very competitive though.
It's an endless discussion. The fact is that seles was out for reasons that had nothing to do with tennis, and Graf regained her number one position without having to take it from seles. The 2-0 in 1991 and 1-1 in 1992 has to be put in percpective with 3-0 for seles in 1990 and 1993. after all, seles beat graf quite comfortably in the AO93 final, which was only their 10th encounter and the last one they played prior to the stabbing.
I agree for sure. So many what ifs and buts. Graf's losses in 1990 to Seles coming right after her layoff (broken thumb) and all of her losses Seles came on clay or rebound ace. But then again, Graf's wins in 1991 coming in smaller tournaments so perhaps Seles didn't necessarily give it her all. Graf was scarily good in early 94 and 95-96 but who's to say that Seles wouldn't be able to raise her game to another level as well? Oh what could've been if it hadn't been for that psychopath.
I agree. As for the first 1990 loss, Graf was on a 66 unbeaten match streak, so you can't really say she was out of form at that point. She still was in 3 slam finals in 1990, winning one. Graf was very good in early 1994, but also throughout 93, a year seles had started really well, so I feel that she could have continued to dominate at least on clay and rebound ace. We'll never know anyway. Parche stated he considered suicide in 1990. Should have done so and done the world favor.
I thought Graf looked indifferent throughout much of 90 and correct me if I'm wrong but perhaps much of that streak came from 1989? I also thought her backhand had changed for the worse at around that time (started to float a little). It was still a good shot but not as good as it had been before. But like we said, with the awesome rise of Seles and the return to form for Graf in 93-96, their rivalry could've elevated the game to unbelievable heights. I agree with your last sentence!
@juju1305 As a Seles fan I can honestly say I dont think Graf was playing well in 1990 at all. The reason she still had her win streak going when she lost to Seles was she had played nobody in early 1990, the Aussie Open draw she had was crap and she still barely got through it. Seles deserves big credit for her 2 wins over Graf in 1990 still of course, but I would concur Graf was playing very poorly around then. That isnt to say Graf was always out of form as some of her fanatics would say.
Seles was better than Graf. I don't care who doesn't agree with it but it's fact... just like it's factual that a Steffi Graf lunatic fan stabbed Monica.
Damn Hingis for blowing such a golden opportunity to win the French! WTF?
kljMN2 1 month ago
@kljMN2
Graf was better than Seles.
She is 10-5 H2H against Monica. Even 3-2 when Seles was #1 pre-stabbing. And 4-1 post-stabbing.
There is not even ONE surface (clay, grass, HC, indoor carpet) where Seles leads Graf H2H. And there is not even ONE major tournament Seles has won more often than Graf.
Hoffenheim08 1 month ago
Seles was about to become the best player ever. You can think, in denial, that Graf still would have been better than Seles. BUT Seles was BETTER than Graf, and if it wasnt for the psychopath than Seles would have remained better than Graf.
welcome1598 2 months ago
@welcome1598
Seles was not better than Graf. Neither were Sanchez or Hingis.
Although all of them were #1 at some point during Graf's career.
Or do you want to suggest that Henin, Clijsters, Jankovic, Ivanovic, Sharapova and Wozniacki were better than Serena Williams?
Meade3763 2 months ago
martina great player, but as athlete by far much better steffi!
pakeb 2 months ago
beautiful videos !!! thank you
pakeb 2 months ago
I growth watching Stefi Graf playing tennis. Yesterday evening I saw the new Wii spot with her, i was happy to see her again. When I was a teenager the world of tennis was rule by Stefi Graf, her husband Andrea Agasi, Pete Sampras and Boris Becker.
trebby83 2 months ago
thanks. MH forever !
TigressOrchid 4 months ago
Okay I way too young when Graff was around but I've been really interested in her tennis recently. I've noticed she doesn't do a lot of topspin backhands, can someone tell me why? I read somewhere when she did it, it was always a winner.. so I'm a bit curious. Thanks x
ilovepoo122 7 months ago
@ilovepoo122
Her deep slice BH provoked loopy returns from her opponents.
Which was perfect for her killer forehand.
She needed a topspin BH only against net-rushing players like Navratilova or Novotna. As a passing shot.
Hoffenheim08 7 months ago
Man, these were two really talented players, it's really fun to watch them play! Today all we have are samey, boring OVAPOWA-Style players, too bad.
Thanks for sharing
ADent82 9 months ago
Steffi Gras is greater than Seles, Period.
MdeSouche 9 months ago
Hingis didn't take Graf seriously in this match until it was too late. Served her right for being such a bratty teenager.
dtv2031 10 months ago
@dtv2031
Hingis took Graf took Graf too seriously. She was afraid of losing - especially to a player she had dismissed as "too old" and who was injured when she took over women's tennis in 1997. Terribly afraid ...
Hoffenheim08 10 months ago
this is Steffi Vs Hingis, not seles,,, i think some fanatic Seles fans are stress and hopeless, even Seles never better then Steffi.
manforU100 1 year ago
best female tennis player of all times.
receipt22 1 year ago
Vintage forehand by Graf @ 0:08
sjalcapricorn 1 year ago
hingis had this one. it's too bad the french crowd influenced things for their favorite the way they usually do. 10,000 against 1 girl; they must feel big about themselves. hingis's game here was spot on; she became a bit too much of a counterpuncher towards her later years. and graf was good but no way would she have as many slams as navratalova or everit without seles getting stabbed.
wei2k 1 year ago
@wei2k
Steffi would have had almost 30 slams without her father's scandals.
Nothing indicated that she would have lost her 88/89 form otherwise.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
As much as I resent Steffi for winning 22 slams because of the Monica Seles stabbing, I was a fan of hers on that day as the Martina Hingis arrogance got that entire stadium against her and I was pulling for Steffi as well for winning and I was very delighted that she beat Hingis.
italo36 1 year ago
@italo36
Of course Steffi profited from Seles's misforturne.
As Seles had profited from Steffi's misfortune in 1990-92.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
In the summer of 1992 Steffi said she was playing her best tennis again, and she still lost to Seles at the French 1992, lost the US Open badly to Vicario (Seles KILLED in the final), the WTA Championships, and 1993 Aussie Open Final, where she was thoroughly overpowered by Seles.
She was second best in the world, even at her best.
And in her prime, in 1989, Graf lost a set in THEIR FIRST MATCH, when Seles was 15.
Graf had trouble with Seles from the VERY FIRST BALL......
artisking1 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08 puffball serve, foul mouth, and oversized ego -- HINGIS WON HER SLAMS WHILE GRAF WAS INJURED OR NOT PLAYING
RuthlessFerocity 10 months ago
Graf is like the Federer of Women
artygunnar 1 year ago
the court craft of hingis is just brilliant... shame that she wanted to win too much and she wanted to beat steffi so badly...
olaraay 1 year ago
@olaraay
Her problem was not that she wanted to win so badly.
It was being terrified by the thought that she might lose to a player she had dismissed as "too old" just 12 months before.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08 no she wanted to win badly here in a slam final, just listen to her speech at the ceremony
though she beat her in their only meeting that year she really wanted to beat her in that slam final... that would have put her on the map
she had this mental thing with graf mainly because their head to head was lopsided
olaraay 1 year ago
@olaraay
What people fear or what motivates them is not always that what they say.
Hingis felt that a loss to GRAF would devaluate her success in 1997/98 when Queen Steffi was out due to injuries.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08 we both say same things...but what i am trying to say is that she really wanted to beat graf in a SLAM and with that being a final , not some tournament in tokyo
no1 even rememers that she won againt graf in tokyo, i cant even remember what round
im telling you, she would not have crossed the net in tokyo if it was played clay... who ares she was so uptight in this match cos it was a slam final and she really wanted to vaildate herself. she was
olaraay 1 year ago
@olaraay
Yes, of course Hingis badly wanted to beat Steffi in a slam. She knew that this would be very important legacy-wise.
But at the same time she was very afraid to lose. To lose against a player she had already dismissed as "too old". She could imagine how the tennis world would ridicule her if she really lost to this old warhorse.
And this thought slowly crept up her spine when it came to crunch time ...
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
STEFFI, I still miss you, miss the best tennis player the world has ever seen!!!
Shaperman3 1 year ago
bizarre. i reckon art and hoff and mclernads are all the same person. and me, too.
MrTonyInchpractice 1 year ago
@MrTonyInchpractice
you reckon wrong. totally wrong......
.....i just have no interest in arguing bullshit anymore.
artisking 1 year ago
graf is the best of all time no words for this amazing athlete
TheSami75 1 year ago
No, Steffi was the better one. It's not even a debate because really Steffi and Martina Navratilova are the ones untouched at the top. Look at their results, but also look at the revolution they did. Tennis is the results, but also how they play, what they bring to the game - like the technique, the stance, the poise, the tactics, styles, fitness. Steffi was also a little lucky because she was born with movement and speed and the MIND, but Seles could have worked to be fit.
pieldeoliva81 1 year ago
Comment removed
artisking 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@pieldeoliva81
Actually, you have to rely on facts. Belief is nice, but useless. And fact are, Seles was superior to Graf, at a younger age, and took Grafs number one......
There is no disputing this.
Sorry....
artisking 1 year ago
@pieldeoliva81 I totally agree. Graf and Navratilova are at the top (maybe including Evert), but the exclusive group of top female players ever of all time is Graf, Navratilova, Evert, Court-Smith, Connolly, King, Seles and Wills Moody. Seles is in that and she achieved so much, although early in her career. I agree though, she had her chances to really focus on fitness. When you're young, you're naturally speedy and light, but you lose this as you get older, especially if you're an athlete.
lookscudkill 1 year ago 2
@lookscudkill
Seles greater than Lenglen?
Don't be an idiot.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
OPEN ERA Dummy.......and in the Open Era, (1968- Present) Seles WON DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF SLAMS THAT STEFFI HAD AT THE SAME AGE.
do you dispute this?
Come on whimp, you keep on ignoring this fact.
Why?
artisking 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Hoffenheim08
OPEN ERA Dummy.......and in the Open Era, (1968- Present) Seles WON DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF SLAMS THAT STEFFI HAD AT THE SAME AGE..
do you dispute this?
Come on whimp, you keep on ignoring this fact.
Why?
artisking 1 year ago
The Seles vs Graf argument will rage on, but facts are facts, Seles was superior in early 1993, no doubt. Seles was/IS the most successful teen phenom in open era history, better than Graf, Evert, Austin, and Hingis......
In the Aussie Final 1993, Seles totally overpowered Graf: 7-1 margin in aces, and 31-21 margin in total winners. More FOREHAND/ BKHD Winners, aces, service winners, higher MPH on her serve....she dominated in EVERY category......
Graf was great, but Seles was better.
artisking 1 year ago
@artisking
1991/92 better than Graf of 1988/89?
Don't be ridiculous!
In 1987-89 Steffi lost only 7 matches in 240 matches, won two Wimbledons and one Golden Grand Slam.
Seles lost 11 of 155 matches in 1991/92, won zero Wimbledons and zero Golden Grand Slams.
It was not even close ...
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
Fact:
Seles was better than Graf, at a younger age. At 19, to the day, Monica already had won 8 Slam titles.....DOUBLE the titles Graf had won at the same age.
Sory, this is a fact. Not to mention ofcourse.......
Seles PLAYED STEFFI, in her ERA, and beat her.....Graf had ample chances to reclaim her number one....
She Failed.
artisking 1 year ago
@artisking
Steffi won the Golden Grand Slam at 19.
And as #1 player had a winning H2H against the #2 player.
So who was better?
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
Comment removed
artisking 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
MORE LIES.
Steffi HAS NEVER HAD a winning record vs Martina Nav, who was NUMBER 2 , when Steffi won the Golden Slam. and Martina was waaaaay past her prime.
In contrast, Seles lost her first three matches against Graf (she was 15....), and then WON THE NEXT 4 OUT OF 7.
A young Seles had a FAR superior record against Graf (2-3)than a young Steffi vs Martina (1-4) and Chris (0-5).......who were 13 and 16 years older than Steffi.
Sorry, facts are facts.
DO YOU DISPUTE THIS??
artisking 1 year ago
@artisking
Steffi has a winning record from 1987-94 (8-4) over Navratilova. We know from Seles fans that the first year of matches don't count because the younger player is still too young.
Martina was "waaaay past her prime in 1988"?
But had won at least 2 slams in the 5 years before that?
And was able to beat Seles 7 times in the next 5 years?
My God, how dumb can a Selestard be ... ?
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
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artisking 1 year ago
@artisking
Even not counting first year matches Steffi has a winning record against Seles (7-5).
Against #1 Seles Steffi even has a record of 5-2.
This is the worst record ever of a #1 player against her main opponent.
Other notable #1 Seles records:
The worst loss ever in a slam final (Wimbledon 92 with 2-6 1-6).
Loss against the oldest player ever (Navratilova 36 years, 3 months).
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
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artisking 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
Sad Hoffie, getting more and more desperate.....we aren't talking POST STABBING.
But pre stabbing, if you aren't counting first years matches (WHICH WAS VERY STUPID OF YOU to say......LOL).....
Monica has the better record, 4-3.....including 3-1 record in GS Finals........
facts are a bitch, huh?
artisking 1 year ago
@artisking
YOU said that first-year matches don't count, not me.
I'm talking pre- AND post-stabbing. Or don't you want to count Seles AO 96 title?
OK, then Seles has 8 slams and Steffi 22. That's huge gap, IMO.
14 slams ...
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
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@Hoffenheim08
No, I didn't bitch, you did......YOU DID....which was VERY VERY Stupid, LOL....
So, if first year matches don't count, Seles had a winning record vs Garf, 4-3.....
Thanks Hoffie!
LOLLOLOLOLOL.........
artisking 1 year ago
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artisking 1 year ago
@artisking
LOL!
I'm on record with making fun of dumb Selestards like you for not wanting to count Seles's first 3 losses and - convienently - starting to count with Seles's first win (Even then Seles is only 5-7 H2H against Graf).
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago 6
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artisking 1 year ago
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artisking 1 year ago
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@Hoffenheim08
Blah blah blah Bitch....you trapped yourself again, you silly cow!
Yeah, 4-3, In favor of Seles!!!!!!!!......
"im on record..!!!..." LOL.....what a whiner!
this is YOUTube, not Parliament, ya sad twat!
LOL......LOL......
artisking 1 year ago
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artisking 1 year ago
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@Hoffenheim08
"On record"? You sad twat, this is YOUTUBE, not Parliament! LOL.........
And you were STUPID enough not to count first year losses....which works for me!!!
Seles 4-3 lead...thanks Hoffie! Retard!
artisking 1 year ago
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artisking 1 year ago
@artisking
"Whining"?
You are the whining Selestard, not me.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
BOOHOOOO.........Hoofie loses again......
artisking 1 year ago
@artisking
Yes, comparable to how Steffi "always lost" against Seles.
In the slam count. In the Wimbledon count. In the H2H count. In the #1 count.
In all count ...
;-)
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago 7
@Hoffenheim08
Hey, can you post as your other Screen name, McClernard, and talk to yourself again?.......it's so funny and i want to show a friend......
I LOVE when you do that. You actually TALK to YOURSELF, AGREE WITH YOURSELF, pretending to be TWO different people....LOL...
That is a Special Kind of Crazy.
artisking 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
I totally agree with you, Hoffie.
Still, once again, don't waste your time with this little ill-educated brat. He isn't worth it.
"sissy", "whimp", "liar", "I won I won I won"..that's all that he can say..like in the yard of a primary school..
McClernand2 1 year ago
@McClernand2
It is great fun for me to correct her factual errors.
Ill-educated?
Sure - but which Selestard has a college degree?
So she is no exception.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
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artisking 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
This is SO SAD......I happen to know for fact that HOFFENHEIMER AND MCCLERNARD2/1 are the SAME PERSON.......
This is SO CRAZY.
YOU ARE POSTING TO YOURSELF, AGREEING WITH YOURSELF, PRETENDING TO BE TWO DIFERRENT PEOPLE....
This is EMBARRASSING.
LOL,LOL,LOL, LOL.....you need medication.
artisking 1 year ago
@artisking
Congrats!
But how did you find out the we all are the same person?
You with the FBI?
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
Not tough to find out.......just need to know your way around a computer.
Now, do you not find it a bit sad that you talk to yourself, pretending to be two different people, posting to yourself, agreeing with yourself.......????
Do you not see how sad that is?
Do yourself a favor. Talk to yourself under different screen names all you like, just don't involve me and I won't list your other screen names.......
Honestly, you're mentally ill.
Lets move on.
artisking 1 year ago
@artisking
Oh, come on, explain it to computer laymen : How did you detect this connection between the McClernands and me?
Do you earn your living with computers?
Maybe you are a software developer or something like that?
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
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artisking 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
Are you denying that McClernard(s) (among MANY OTHERS) are other screen names you have created? I hope not, considering that you already admitted this on another thread after I confronted you...
And ANSWER my question:
Why do you talk to yourself, on a computer? Why have you created alter egos to agree with you, pretending you are two different people?
Steffi Graf isn't terribly interesting, doesn't know you, and doesn't care about you.
Do you not see how bizarre that is?
artisking 1 year ago
@artisking
I talk to myself to convince people that there are many Steffi fans out there.
Although there is only me.
Where do you know from that Steffi doesn't care about me?
How can you be so sure that I'm not from Steffi's marketing agency ... ?
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
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artisking 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
Enough bullshit. Let sleeping dogs lie.
If it is really this important to you, then so be it. But at the very least, be honest in your fanaticism......don't make up other identities/personas and pretend, it's simply creepy.....
And lay off Seles. She is a fine person, and If you had a daughter who was stabbed in the back, i think you would have a very different perspective on all this.
Good Luck, and fuck off..... Both meant sincerely...
artisking 1 year ago
@artisking
What is wrong about having a dozen identities on youtube?
Don't tell me that you only post under this funny "artisking" name.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
thats it.....just one......
anyway, good luck.
artisking 1 year ago
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@Hoffenheim08
Not tough to find out.......just need to know your way around a computer.
Now, do you not find it a bit sad that you talk to yourself, pretending to be two different people, posting to yourself, agreeing with yourself.......????
Do you not see how sad that is?
Do yourself a favor. Talk to yourself under different screen names all you like, just don't involve me and I won't list your other screen names.......
Honestly, you're mentally ill.
Lets move on......
artisking 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08 Graf 7 wins against Seles was either against 15 year old baby Monica or fat stabbed depressed Monica. But between 1990-1993 when Seles became a top player and showing her real talent, she lead Graf 4-3 including 3-1 in grandslam finals proving that she was #1 and Graf was #2. Also Graf was limited to 1 slam a year, until the stabbing, when Graf regained control of the tour winning half of her slam total when it was supposed to be Monica's era..
whfan007 1 year ago
@whfan007
4 of Seles's wins were against a slumping Steffi in 90-93, the fifth against an old Steffi a few months before retirement. All of those wins were on slow courts.
Yes, Seles was #1 until the stabbing.
But the mid-/end-90s weren't supposed to be Seles's era.
What makes you think THAT?
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
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whfan007 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08 graf slumping? she slumped until april 1993? what a coincidence. here's what was happening: evert --> navratilova --> graf --> seles --> hingis --> williams. INSTEAD it was: evert --> navratilova --> graf --> seles --> graf --> hingis --> williams. Sorry, that knife changed the course of women's history, Graf even lost the no.1 spot to Aranxta. the 95 us open proved that seles would have continued dominating until hingis, a fat seles coming from nowhere almost beat improved graf.
whfan007 1 year ago
@whfan007
She slumped until March 1992, the end of the blackmail scandal. From then on she steadily improved until spring 1994. Then she was hampered with injuries until winter 1995; Sanchez could take over. Then it was all Steffi again until at the beginning of 1997 her knee fell apart.
Navratilova was #1 for a long time at the end of the 70s. Then she fell back to #3 behind Austin and Evert. And took over #1 against for most of time in the mid-80s. But Evert was #1 several months even then.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
Nonsense....Graf was gifted by the stabbing of Seles.....from 1991 to March of 1993, Graf had won 2 slams in over two years, losing 3 out of 4 slam finals to the dominant Seles......after the stabbing, Graf Graf won 4 slams in a row.....
Graf was majorly aided by parche.....and every major figure in tennis has said so.....
artisking 1 year ago
@artisking
That nonsense, check the facts before you embarrass yourself.
Steffi didn't lose 3 out of 4 slams to Seles from 1991 to March 1993.
Only 2 of 3, the two least imporant ones.
She was 3-2 H2H against Seles in that period though.
And won 2 or the 2 most important tournaments in that time, Wimbledon 1991 and Wimbledon 1992.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
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@Hoffenheim08
Graf lost 3 out of 4 slam Finals to Seles before the tabbing...that is a FACT.
Graf LOST the last 2 out of 3 matches they played and the last 4 out of 7 matches they played b4 the stabbing.....
OH, and Steffi lost one other thing....THE NUMBER ONE RANKING....
LOL......
artisking 1 year ago
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@Hoffenheim08
OH, only 2 out of three.....WOW, she's not a,ttoal loser....
But what was the TOTAL record?....oh, Graf goes from LOSING 66%, to an even more embarrassing 75% LOSS record!
Thanks, Sissy....you proved my point!
artisking 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
Oooooh! Graf lost only 66% of the time........2 out of 3, right.....?
But what was the total record before the stabbing?.....Graf LOST 75% of the time to Seles.....3 out of 4 slam finals...LOL!
....thanks for proving my point, sissyHoffie!
artisking 1 year ago
@artisking
Wrong again, fag.
SELES lost 67 % of the time. 10 of 15 matches against Steffi.
If we exclude both 1990 Seles wins when Steffi was extremely distracted by the blackmail scandal it is 10 fo 13 matches. Which gives Steffi a 77 % winning percentage!
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
Hey, Hoffie, STOP Projecting already...EVERYBODY KNOWS YOU ARE GAY.....
You have an alias, another screen name called "GrafGirl", and your page is dedicated to......(everyone start laughing...)
Women's Ice Skating!
So, one question Sissy: Why does a heterosexual man, who calls everyone on YOUtube "Fag", have a FEMALE username dedicated to Women's Ice Skating?
Are you still claiming to be straight, Mary?
Do you do Drag? Do you do Steffi? Could you send pictures?
LOL,LOL..
artisking1 1 year ago 2
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@Hoffenheim08
Oooooh! Graf lost only 66% of the time........2 out of 3, right.....?
But what was the total record before the stabbing?.....Graf LOST 75% of the time to Seles.....3 out of 4 slam finals...LOL!
....thanks for proving my point, sissyHoffie!!!
artisking 1 year ago
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@Hoffenheim08
No, Bitch, Sorry, but YOU DID.......
and that was very very stupid of you, because now that "first year" matches don't count, guess what????
Seles has a winning record vs Steffi, 4-3......
Thanks, Hoffie....You're the best, Retard!
LOL......LOL....LOL.............
artisking 1 year ago
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@Hoffenheim08
Let me REPEAT....Graf NEVER had a winning H2H record vs maertina, who was 13 years older than Graf....
But if you are NOT Counting "first year mactches", then Seles had a WINNING RECORD VS Steffi......Right?
After all, Seles lost her first three matches vs Steffi, at 15, and then WON her next 4 out of 7.
You are digging your hole deeper and deeper............
artisking 1 year ago
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artisking 1 year ago
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@Hoffenheim08
Let me REPEAT....Graf NEVER had a winning H2H record vs maertina, who was 13 years older than Graf......
But if you are NOT Counting "first year mactches", then Seles had a WINNING RECORD VS Steffi......Right?
After all, Seles lost her first three matches vs Steffi, at 15, and then WON her next 4 out of 7.
You are digging your hole deeper and deeper..............
artisking 1 year ago
@artisking
Seles was 2-5 against Graf before her 18th birthday.
Graf was 3-5 against Navratilova and 2-5 against Evert before her 18th birthday.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
hingis has a beautiful backhand.
and graf has one ugly looking forehand, but it's good.
animaanimaanima 1 year ago
@animaanimaanima
Graf's forehand is poetry in motion.
But I can understand that fans with other faves hated it ...
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago 2
Never ever criticise anyone, coz in return this is what you get
Prolife29 1 year ago
dies graff even have a top spin backhad??? lol i know she does but she barely used it this match
DavidKTMS 1 year ago
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sebbyknight 1 year ago
this is certainly one of the best grand slam matches, not because of the drama, but zhe level is outstanding particularly considering difficult conditions..beautiful rallies
MrNoDiRi 1 year ago
Steffi had always been my fav when I started training tennis, and my teenage sensation Martina came along and here they were... shouldn't they have had fun playing against and together, not as rivals but as greats of the tennis history.
yazatintswe 1 year ago
How great is that ? Hingis never won the french, so extraordinary
she can enjoy her life after taking cocaine, what a drug cheater she is
and graf is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO boring to the point where it's despicable
diteraka 1 year ago
boring
boomcatboom 1 year ago
@boomcatboom Maybe it's because Hingis wanted to keep hitting to Graf's backhand (her weaker shot). There was some good points though.
kinglear 1 year ago
I think there was a poll done some time ago which voted this as the best ever women's tennis match. Certainly for the drama I'd agree. Amazing how year after year you'd get great women's finals at the French but the last 3 setter was back in 2001. We've had precious few great Slam finals on the women's side over recent years. At least the 2 this year so far have been a lot better so maybe we are warming up for a true classic at either theUS or Wimbledon. We are certainly due.
mjtsmm2027 1 year ago
Steffi is Steffi. La Graf la grace. Brava Steffi.
rovedapaolo 1 year ago
Thanks 4 the upload Hingis was a genius and I believe Steffi had the best all-round game ever: great backhand slice and a monstrous forehand
rafalutionine 1 year ago
Yes, that is what I believe and many others. The best period in women's tennis was from the 70s to the 1996, especially the late 80s to 1996. It was the peak and perfect meeting of power, skill, tactic, technique, professionalism, class, nice personalities, styles, etc. That is why the best matches are in this period and continue to be uploaded onto youtube! Perhaps the 70s to mid-90s was the best period ever for both men's and women's tennis.
lookscudkill 1 year ago
Hingis and Graf...2 of the best tennis players ever.
nkye111 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
sooo boring.. its like its in slow motion.. they take 20 dam strokes ta hit a winner
sibais 1 year ago
Thanks for uploading the vid , reminded me of the time where I still watched professional tennis. One of the things which made Graf the great player she is/was is her attitude her technique might not be the best bu she was always willing to go the extra mile and work work work
kuscheldrache 2 years ago
She had great technique.
Her forhand and her slice backhand were very complicated shots technically. So unique that no one was able to copy it.
Hoffenheim08 2 years ago
I'm not disputing that the Dutchess had a great technique just not the best or I should say best finess? :) But beautiful doesn't always win hard work, effort and determination usualy does and THAT she has and had in spades.
kuscheldrache 2 years ago
nice picture quality! thanks
nihilius32 2 years ago
Graf is one my favourites....Hingis was a very good tennis player too but her attitude was a different story....Great match though...Thanks for the upload.
1syi 2 years ago
I so wanted Hingis to win at least one French Open, she was too good not to have. Oh well, at least her brand of tennis was just wonderful to watch. I can't imagine anyone, for a long time anyway, being capable of replicating her innate talent.
hrhsam 2 years ago
No kidding, especially considering her brand of chess like tennis. No reason she should have lost to Iva Majoli in 1997, just one match away from the Grand Slam.
StewNWT 2 years ago
This was nice to see. A Hingis fan who posted the video, showcasing the brilliant play from BOTH players. Cheers.
atomcrush 2 years ago
i know the legend graf is, but her tennis is ugly. no finesse. that awful grip for those cannon forehands and that sliced backhand shows she had no variety. still, she was the champion of clay and grass, which really baffles me lol. hingis was always a pleasure to watch. impecable shots and brilliant strategy all the time. miss her a lot, even she was a spoiled brat
vozas 2 years ago
@vozas
No variety???
I don't think you ever have played tennis ...
Hoffenheim08 2 years ago
@Hoffenheim08 yeah I played tennis for 11 years. Graf had great movement, but her shot making bored me. She had a great sliced backhand and THE most powerful flat forehand on the tour. Here's Graf's game: "slice it, slice it, slice it until they give you a shorter, higher ball so I can punish it with my fh" that was it... It definitely worked though.
On the other hand, Martina barely put power in her shots except against Davenport. Her finesse was beautiful
vozas 2 years ago
@vozas
Graf had many different forehands. Her placement was extremely good. She was a master in moving her opponent around.
Hingis bored me to tears.
Hoffenheim08 2 years ago
actually she has 2 forehand. the hard one with the axe like movement that stays in the court and the one with the axe like movement that sails long.
juju1305 2 years ago
You gotta go with what works.
StewNWT 2 years ago
I love them both,martina fro her intelligence in the court,and steffi for her power and her inplication in the game,she uses so much angles to put the opponent away for the ball
zaireanboy 2 years ago
Steffi was always a little arrogant, but she had the utmost respect for her opponents. Listen to her talk about Evert and Navrat when she was coming up. Because she had such respect for her opponents she was concerned she could lose to them, because she was concerned she might lose she always trained harder and tried to play better. Because of that she won matches like this. Shame Hingis wasted her brilliant talent because of her dim-witted presumption Graf was 'old' and 'just a runner'.
sebbyknight 2 years ago 16
I agree with most of what you said except for the part about her being arrogant. For some reason I can't imagine her as such.
maricelei 2 years ago 4
"Always a little arrogant"?
Links?
Hoffenheim08 2 years ago
@sebbyknight yes I completely agree. eventhough serena always say she didnt play her best if she loss a match. she never fails to gave credits to her opponents nad especially give respect to all the great legend
susceotible 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I like Hingis ...but i abhor graf
TheRasputin77 2 years ago
Graf doesnt like u either...
bearchamp69 2 years ago 2
Never seen a player come apart so completely like Hingis did. One of the craziest matches and most memorable matches I've ever seen - thanks for posting them. I wasn't a fan of Graf before this match, but I appreciated her a lot more after!
roperkids 2 years ago 3
i think most look past HINGIS behaviour because she did have the greatness to back it up anyway. she was that good and dominant back then.. and as a young girl i guess she was not guided well so they let it all get into her huge head!
but she was real good in her time. backe when their were still rallies instead of really short points full of power, grunting and balls on the line!
spotzyglitch 2 years ago 4
I don't know why people feel the need to defend her behavior. Calling someone 'old' and saying 'their time has passed' is utterly ridiculous. It makes you look really bad when you end up losing to the person too. And don't use the excuse that her management made her do it. What about the Williams sisters, Chris Evert, Steffi Graf? Who all played as teens and didn't say anything bad about their opponents? No, Martina said all that on her own, and I'm glad she lost.
musicdragon75 2 years ago 21
I couldn't agree more! That remarks of Hingis were an astounishing lack of respect for perhaps the best female player of all time (certainly the most versatile having won each of the grandslams at least 4 times) that was always respectfull the her opponents herself. Hingis made these comments in a time that Graf was absent due to injuries for a very long time so she couldn't defend herself on the court either to proof Hingis was wrong. I'm so glad Hingis was put on her place and lost to Graf!
wilcoscholman 2 years ago 3
This video is amazing! Great Memories!
hernandezluisarturo 2 years ago
Steffi
The
Greatest
of
All
Time!!
RuthlessFerocity 2 years ago
I remember watching and heavily anticipating this match at the time. It was during Steffi's big comeback. Ten years ago already. Time flies.
lookscudkill 2 years ago 2
this match is legendary! i think this was voted as the best WTA match in history
patform 2 years ago 2
Greatest, not best.
Hoffenheim08 2 years ago 3
Can anyone see the ball?
thomasbecketshatin 2 years ago
i don't understand why everyone is complaining about hingis's behaviour. what is wrong with it?
poplova 2 years ago
It was alot about her trash talk before the match. She was talking about a change of generations and it would be time for Steffi to retire because a new breed of players were coming up. In the match she grinned very arrogant in the first set when Grad played a good ball n stuff, which faded when she noticed she is gonna lose. I think it's not completly her fault she behaved like she did. Her mother and her management gave her the impression she was the only one and only in the WTA of these days.
gewuerzwiesel123 2 years ago 2
Let us not forget that actually there was a BIG gap in Graf's resume called Seles. Seles was the dominant player in the early nineties, taking over the number one spot and defeating Graf consistently. If it weren't for Seles being stabbed, Graf would have NEVER won all those titles.
jason101other 2 years ago
Seles is extremely overrated.
She would never have reached #1 if Graf had not have to suffer a nasty blackmail scandal in 1990-92.
Exactly when Seles rose to #1.
Coincidence?
Yeah, right ...
Hoffenheim08 2 years ago 4
I can sort of agree with both of you. Seles was an awesome force in the early 90s but like Hoffenheim08 said, Graf had a loss of form at the same time although she was returning to form in 93. jason101other, Seles never defeated Graf consistently as Graf was 2-0 in 1991 and 1-1 in 1992. When you consider how brilliant Steffi played in the first half of 94 and in 95 and 96, I'd argue that an in-form Graf would have a slight edge against a peak Seles. It'd still be very competitive though.
gk891 2 years ago
It's an endless discussion. The fact is that seles was out for reasons that had nothing to do with tennis, and Graf regained her number one position without having to take it from seles. The 2-0 in 1991 and 1-1 in 1992 has to be put in percpective with 3-0 for seles in 1990 and 1993. after all, seles beat graf quite comfortably in the AO93 final, which was only their 10th encounter and the last one they played prior to the stabbing.
juju1305 2 years ago
I agree for sure. So many what ifs and buts. Graf's losses in 1990 to Seles coming right after her layoff (broken thumb) and all of her losses Seles came on clay or rebound ace. But then again, Graf's wins in 1991 coming in smaller tournaments so perhaps Seles didn't necessarily give it her all. Graf was scarily good in early 94 and 95-96 but who's to say that Seles wouldn't be able to raise her game to another level as well? Oh what could've been if it hadn't been for that psychopath.
gk891 2 years ago
I agree. As for the first 1990 loss, Graf was on a 66 unbeaten match streak, so you can't really say she was out of form at that point. She still was in 3 slam finals in 1990, winning one. Graf was very good in early 1994, but also throughout 93, a year seles had started really well, so I feel that she could have continued to dominate at least on clay and rebound ace. We'll never know anyway. Parche stated he considered suicide in 1990. Should have done so and done the world favor.
juju1305 2 years ago
I thought Graf looked indifferent throughout much of 90 and correct me if I'm wrong but perhaps much of that streak came from 1989? I also thought her backhand had changed for the worse at around that time (started to float a little). It was still a good shot but not as good as it had been before. But like we said, with the awesome rise of Seles and the return to form for Graf in 93-96, their rivalry could've elevated the game to unbelievable heights. I agree with your last sentence!
gk891 2 years ago
the Graf streak spread over the two years, since she lost in may 1990 to Seles in Berlin. Totally agree with your statement.
juju1305 2 years ago
@juju1305 As a Seles fan I can honestly say I dont think Graf was playing well in 1990 at all. The reason she still had her win streak going when she lost to Seles was she had played nobody in early 1990, the Aussie Open draw she had was crap and she still barely got through it. Seles deserves big credit for her 2 wins over Graf in 1990 still of course, but I would concur Graf was playing very poorly around then. That isnt to say Graf was always out of form as some of her fanatics would say.
selesfan30 1 year ago