that's what i also thought why seathe betrayed his kind. seathe reminds me of Ephialtes of 300, both was thrown out so they went to someone that would accept them.
Could it be that Seath was simply an all around bastard from the start, and the other dragons stripped him of his scales and immortality? Which would for sure give him motive to betray them. The strange physical mutations could simply be by products of insane experiments.
It's always been my understanding that seath ripped his scales off as you can see in the opening video.
Also I feel like the "humans" during the Age of Fire when Gwyn first rose to power were huge think Ornstein etc. Which is why the Pygmy is such an important creature, he's smaller. He is a much more insignificant being and him finding a part of the lords soul is kind of like Gollum finding the ring of power. A creature unworthy of what he possess who becomes destined to bring in the dark.
One obvious inspiration for the war between Gwyn and the Dragons is the war between the Olympians and the Titans: newer, more beautiful, less numerous, idiosyncratic/individualistic gods warring with and banishing older, monstrous, indefinitely plentiful, fungible/less distinct gods from a more ancient time.
@cwoxviii In that sense the keepers of the Lordsouls vs. Gwyn's children are somewhat analogous to Zeus' siblings (Hera, Poseidon, Hades) vs. his children. All are gods, and all answer to the supreme lord, but the siblings are considered more "equal" to Zeus, wiser, and tend to have more powers than the children.
Couldn't the dragons be immortal because of their scales? Explain why Seath is trying to get immortality.
In the prologue cutscene it mentions how Gwyn used lightning to peel apart their stone scales. Maybe they're actually invincible because of their scales and by taking them off gwyn made it possible to kill them.
Also would explain why the dragon covenant leader can't be killed (as far as I saw, his health just regenerated when he was attacked). He's invincible because of his stone scales.
The "Seath" in this game is not the real Seath at all, he is an impostor who has appeared in prior KF games. He has been experimenting on himself since forever, trying to make himself into a real dragon. The end result is deformities and insanity. You fight and banish him in Kingsfield 3, and see him again in Kingsfield Chronicle. :)
@ganador13 From what I understand, they had a new team (and project director) who picked up the Souls Series. I believe that's why From's approach was much different. And there is no "King's Field Chronicle" unless you're referencing an article that appeared in the KF2 stratguide.
@Quelaag i began with KF1 the japan copy. in the early 90s :) I am a "trekky" for the series. have every version from start to finish and love the storyline as well as the games of course. i have quite a few other neat things you might enjoy seeing if interested. never published material and merchandise from the older series.
@Quelaag And the project lead director is Hidetaka Miyazaki, for both Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. As for From's aproach though, I havent seen a change at all in the way they tell stories, from KF1 to today. If you mean the Seath impostor specifically, he has not strayed from canon at all. Have you given Sword Of Moonlight a shot btw? It's great for creativity and you seem very good with story bible and character bible analysis. And Verdite is "The Northern Continent" to the keys
@ganador13 I was talking about the difference between the Kings Field and Souls series - not Dark and Demon's Souls. Seath wasn't in Demon's Souls - this is his first appearance within Miyazaki's installments.
@Quelaag Ooohhh ok that makes sense my mistake. As far as the Seath impostor, yes this is his first appearance in what people are calling the "Soul Series". Though I myself don't call it that personally. There is only as much separation as there is from the 60s star trek and then TNG star trek. In the end, The impostor Seath has only changed in physical form, not in storyline. Though of course, changing in physical form is an important part of the characters story.
@ganador13 Yeahyeah - I agree. I was just saying there may potentially be slightly vague discrepancies between the series. Or a "shift" in aesthetic or whatever - but it still makes sense. Question: What's your view on Dusk? I haven't played the KF series since I was really young, so a lot of smaller details are lost to me and I'm trying soo hard to figure out Oolacile.
@Quelaag I am not too familiar with the people of lordran. It is plain to see that this would be the "land of the giants", to us, but to the giants themselves it is just "lodran", where giants are royal and we are the "small people" who live in the ghetto outside the big walls. As for Oolacile, if Dusk's description states her entire land was destroyed, then it is likely that it was victim to the Icewarrior during the Blue Phoenix's campaign, just like Boletaria and Lordran.
@ganador13 There's so much wrong with the land of the giants that I don't want to get started. Firstly, there's concept art that was actually used in the game to show what tlog looks like (google demons souls land of giants - first image) the image shows when the monumental speaks of it. Looks nothing like lordran unfortunately. I believe there is also some translation errors / incontinuities. Selen mentions she's from the west. Tlog is to the north - yet garl has a weapon for smashing giants
@Quelaag The first image that comes up is a representaion of the Kiln of the First Flame. This is not a good representation of tlog as a whole, since it is merely a random chunk of land that was separated from the rest of lordran to act as a prison for gwyn. As for garl, keep in mind giants exist outside lordran, but are few and scattered, and not "in charge" culturally when outside lordran. Lordran and boletaria are likely as close as pittsburg and philadelphia. I will send a PM :)
@ganador13 I don't have an IM client unfortunately. :'C I just use facebook at the moment. But yeah, I've been meaning to make a video on all of this. I already have a demons souls / dark souls one.
@Quelaag The only supporting evidence, is a lack of supporting evidence of anything else both capable of that kind of scale effect, and also with a motive. Kal Fargus, the Ice Warrior of brand is the only one who has both, and is confirmed to be awake during the era of Lordran and Boletaria. As for shifts in aesthetic and such, From has strictly tied their canon since 1994, up till Demon's Souls. I see no evidence of them changing that now.
@Quelaag Darn Tiny post limit of youtube... I was going to say a P.S., which is, you have a passion for the lore of the KF world. I would love to chat sometime on some kind of messenger like aim or something and trade studies :)
@Quelaag I will say this, if it helps at all: Two eyed giants, are usually snooty, snobby. In the "we are the superior race" way, and usually practice different forms of "light magic", in the classic KF term, which includes lightning and darkmoon stuff. The Cyclops Giants are different and more like monks, and seem to worship only fire, like a cult of pryomancers. I also know that the bible-like speeches origin, is a two eyed giants culture. (thou art, cometh, taketh, giveth and so on).
@ganador13 Couldn't be more right. This would also explain how he was able to mate with Gwynevere (my accurate opinion), and she give birth to Priscilla (she looks far more human than Dragon after all).
just wanted to comment on this whilst i was watching it on my phone last night but couldn't ... had some questions but basically they've been answered. SOO just want to say your drawing looks like the inside of a vagana ... and a trollface penis is inside.....umm...that's all :)
Logan goes mad with knowledge after you buy all his spells, he never got his hands on the primordial crystal. Plus Seath betrayed the ancient dragons to get the key to immortality. Good story though
While you do mention this, you miss the reason why Seath is not immortal. I think their scales are the reason for their immortality. Seath (being scaleless) grows jealous of their immortality and wants it for himself. Gwyn sees this and offers Seath a chance to conduct research for his immortality if he were to help him rid the world of the everlasting dragons. I think that the crystals that cover the archives are the byproduct of Seath's research and attempts at immortality (like the Scale).
Hey, great videos but I have a couple of issues for you. All this talk of genetics and genetic disorders is really out of context in a fantasy world. It's more about fate, magic, essences, and the like.
@WanderingFool100 Blame from software, not me. They put a lot of ancestral / decedent / genetic mutation stuff in their item descriptions. Gaping dragon's weapon etc etc
@UltraTien Yep! (Hah I wish). It kind of explains his attire. It can be assumed that he fought the dragons along side Gwyn, and that after Gwyn teamed up with Seath - Havel left or distanced himself from Arno Londo because he hates dragons + seath. Who knows.
You make even more assumptions here. You make the assumption that the dragons are evil which was never hinted at in the game. Seath is a recurring character in From Software games. In the first Kings Field - he is played out as the "Good" dragon, over Guyra, but is later found to be he evil dragon in Kings Field 3. Likewise, the Moonlight sword is a recurring item in the games (Every kings field, DeS, DaS).
@ihasmario You also make the assumption that Gwyn is corrupt, as opposed to a misinterpreted leader. Throughout the game the idea of using humanity on fire is a central theme; and we see that Gwyn has been burning the longest.
Havel is not a pure melee character, he's a bishop and used a number of miracles. He also designed his own miracles, which were designed to combat seath and the other dragons. Judging by the spines on the back of Havel's armor (and the tooth) it may be dragon hide
@ihasmario I believe the 'scales of immortality' refers to the indestructible stone skin possessed by the dragons (which is why the stone dragon in ash lake is immortal to the player). Seath eventually finds and uses the primordial crystal for his own immortality. I don't think it was ever referenced that dragons were "magic" oriented - Seath has always been tied with Moonlight (and the moonlight sword). He was also the father of sorcery in DaS, which is likely why it's tied to the moon
@ihasmario I believe the stone dragon in ash lake is supposed to be a firekeeper, which may also explain why he doesn't talk. The fire keeper in anor londo mentions that the fires with keepers are all "linked", and those are the ones you can warp between with the Lord Vessel. It could have just been a last minute decision for convenience with regards to the covenant. One of his horns is missing, and havel's miracle is in ash lake, which leads me to believe dragon tooth is a mistranslation
@ihasmario The Gaping Dragon isn't the result of a direct descendant, but it is believed to be a mutated dragon, it's on an item description somewhere. The hellkite is a descendant without immortal scales, I suppose. Your understanding of chimps vs humans is wrong, but I don't even care.
The serpent(s?) have always been.
You've had the insight to read the serpent rings, but don't discuss hte possibility of the serpents playing a role in the age of fire, and the age of man.
@ihasmario Also, chimps (bonobos) are an animal that shares a direct common ancestor with us. We didn't evolve from them - and they aren't our ancestor. I may have articulated myself poorly, but its a proper allegory. A mutation is a genetic change that occurs during natural selection. So everything you just said supports my claim. The weapon from the gaping dragon says. "is formed by the tail of the Gaping Dragon, a distant, deformed descendant of the everlasting dragons."
@ihasmario I never assumed the dragons were evil. That Gywn was good. That the pygmy was good. etc. etc. I have stated that the ethical issues addressed in the kings field / dark souls / demons souls series are vague and are meant to be morally grey.
Instead I wasted 100 hours of play time all to immolate myself for some dead, senile jerk's futile attachment to the past.
I do wish this depth was expressed more out of item descriptions, though, as it's truly fascinating,
moreso than simply stating SOUL ARTS=OLD ONE=DEMONS=BAD, though changing the endings from "good and evil" to basically "conservative and liberal" was a bit of a dick move.
Anyways, that's just food for thought. I hope I don't sound obnoxious with all those "corrections". I really like your videos, keep up the good work.
Or maybe he wanted the books of the archives (I don't know if the archives existed in the Age of Fire). Although I agree with your vision of Gwyn in the beginning, I don't think he had pity of Seath, but rather saw him as a valuable ally which he needed to win the war. Also, as you said, Logan went mad for the same reason as Seath, but I don't think it's the Scales of Immortality. The way Logan speaks before he goes mad, it seems like going mad is the consequence of having too much knowledge.
I might be wrong about this, but I believe that the Scales of Immortality are regular dragon scales. That explains why Seath isn't immortal (since he's scaleless). Like you said, he was alienated by his kind, the others dragons didn't have anything to do, they waited for him to die of old age. I think this is what made Seath betray is own kind, he was afraid of death and went to Gwyn because he wanted to defeat the dragons, although I don't know why... either vengeace or to collect scales.
@Quelaag I did dragon axe has nothing to do with the word drake and the reason the drake sword says they are undeveloped imitators of dragons is because a young dragon often don't have there wings when they are drakes the hellkite DRAKE just got it's wings so more likely it died young.
@Argonisgema Where did you find that information? Last time I checked drake = "Drake \d-ra-ke\ as a boy's name is pronounced drayk. It is of Middle English origin, and the meaning of Drake is "dragon". From Drakon (Greek) or "draca", the medieval term for "dragon". Originally Drake designated the man who kept the inn with the dragon trademark, or the "Sign of the Dragon". Drago is an Italian form; Draco is Latin. English explorer Sir Francis Drake."
@Quelaag I get my information from years of dragon mythos books peace-ing together the different types all over the world i recommend black drago dot com for basic dragon info.
@Quelaag I sorry for what i said if i sound rude to you it's just to many times i see people say what they think about the word drake and i always feel compelled to say what it is though it doesn't help me that there are multiple meanings when you compare the word drake to dragon alone so lets start again i like your videos explaining the backstory of dark souls i think we both agree we like the game.
@Argonisgema Also, there is the gaping dragon which I brought up before. Dragon is clearly in its name - yet it is not one of the "everlasting" dragons that appeared in the prologue
@lamenotcool yea lol i would skip around through the worlds...i would wonder why world 4 was getting so hard, going to have to play thru it right soon, but ty
I was wrote that I see seethe as more of an alchemist and that he was trying to make an artificial scale of immortality which would explain all the enemies covered in diamonds which I assume were his failed experiments on the subjects of anor Londo that wandered into the archives kind of like a philosophers stone kind of edge to it with the end result him surpassing his dragon brethren who shunned him
@ Quelagg Actually if you talk to anor Londo's fire keeper she tells you that he betrayed his kind and was given dukedom by Gwynn and allowed to do experiments ect. But then went mad and that the fellow gods or humans ect didn't go to the archives because no one came back my hypothesis is that he was a type of scholar among dragons but was shunned from his kind because of dragons naturally being primal brutes I know the moonlight butterfly is one of his experiments but I think the main goal of
@TheWavebird Nah that didn't all come out. Also, him being a scholar and not a brute is still what I was saying regarding animals. He was alienated because he was different or not ideal for reproduction. Thats why bullying happens. That's why alienation happens. Its because a person isn't "ideal".
lol frampt is a troll. Couldnt concentrate on the video because of it jk.
I always thought dragons were immortal (but killable) because of the scales, and seath betrayed them so he could research on how to get scales, probably not true, but they are called everlasting right?
I'd rather see you're awesome interpretations of the characters (like the Witch Izalith!) than these faces that have been beaten to death for 4+ years.
Are you going to eventually go into what is the "good ending" and what is the "bad ending", cause that is one thing I've seen debated a lot online and I'm not really clear on it myself.
that's what i also thought why seathe betrayed his kind. seathe reminds me of Ephialtes of 300, both was thrown out so they went to someone that would accept them.
demiboi0315 6 days ago
so how much for cam?
Stevoid1990 1 week ago
LOL awesome drawing of the kingseeker
Praise the sun!
MathematicianLegacy 1 week ago
getting to darkwraith cov isnt all that hard at all. ive gotten to game +++ and had kaathe every playthrough.
Step 1: get Frampt to tell you to get the lordvessel sell everything you dont want NOW.
step 2: get the lordvessel and DO NOT TALK TO FRAMP EVER AGAIN (caps lock means its important)
Step3: go to new londo ruins and talk to ingward he'll give you the key to the abyss,
step 4 go to the abyss pit equip ring win against the 4kings, and voila kaathe is in yo'h face!
iTzRavenHD 2 weeks ago
@iTzRavenHD o_o Nobody said it was hard. Did they?
Quelaag 1 week ago
@Quelaag in the vid you said it was complicated, and i was just leaving it there for the new players or ppl that never actully got to the covenent :)
iTzRavenHD 1 week ago
@iTzRavenHD She knows all this already all you did was waste her time
Gsmooth84 1 week ago
@iTzRavenHD :U Yez. I have a walkthrough on my channel.
Quelaag 1 week ago
@Quelaag oh sorries, im still new to your channel :) <3
iTzRavenHD 1 week ago
uhh man, not those damn lizards with those damn weird mostaches and those creepy teeth of theirs
i mean dark souls is a great game, but honestly, who is the genious who came up with the primordial serpent desgin???
i hate 2 say this, but ur drawing looks a lot prettier thn the real ones
hefhef54321 2 weeks ago
The true dragons are nonliving, Seath was alive. And Havel was not Pure melee, He used miracles, as a bishop. Namely Great Magic Barrier.
AsTheWorldSpinsAgain 3 weeks ago
Could it be that Seath was simply an all around bastard from the start, and the other dragons stripped him of his scales and immortality? Which would for sure give him motive to betray them. The strange physical mutations could simply be by products of insane experiments.
mrjojogibb 3 weeks ago
It's always been my understanding that seath ripped his scales off as you can see in the opening video.
Also I feel like the "humans" during the Age of Fire when Gwyn first rose to power were huge think Ornstein etc. Which is why the Pygmy is such an important creature, he's smaller. He is a much more insignificant being and him finding a part of the lords soul is kind of like Gollum finding the ring of power. A creature unworthy of what he possess who becomes destined to bring in the dark.
hedgymister234 4 weeks ago
Reddit sucks.
I love you.
Chukanu 4 weeks ago 2
One obvious inspiration for the war between Gwyn and the Dragons is the war between the Olympians and the Titans: newer, more beautiful, less numerous, idiosyncratic/individualistic gods warring with and banishing older, monstrous, indefinitely plentiful, fungible/less distinct gods from a more ancient time.
cwoxviii 1 month ago
@cwoxviii In that sense the keepers of the Lordsouls vs. Gwyn's children are somewhat analogous to Zeus' siblings (Hera, Poseidon, Hades) vs. his children. All are gods, and all answer to the supreme lord, but the siblings are considered more "equal" to Zeus, wiser, and tend to have more powers than the children.
cwoxviii 1 month ago
Troll Frampt is awesome/
JoeNeutrino 1 month ago in playlist Liked videos
Couldn't the dragons be immortal because of their scales? Explain why Seath is trying to get immortality.
In the prologue cutscene it mentions how Gwyn used lightning to peel apart their stone scales. Maybe they're actually invincible because of their scales and by taking them off gwyn made it possible to kill them.
Also would explain why the dragon covenant leader can't be killed (as far as I saw, his health just regenerated when he was attacked). He's invincible because of his stone scales.
kcaz64 1 month ago
The "Seath" in this game is not the real Seath at all, he is an impostor who has appeared in prior KF games. He has been experimenting on himself since forever, trying to make himself into a real dragon. The end result is deformities and insanity. You fight and banish him in Kingsfield 3, and see him again in Kingsfield Chronicle. :)
ganador13 2 months ago
@ganador13 From what I understand, they had a new team (and project director) who picked up the Souls Series. I believe that's why From's approach was much different. And there is no "King's Field Chronicle" unless you're referencing an article that appeared in the KF2 stratguide.
Quelaag 2 months ago
@Quelaag Oh wait nevermind, Verdite.
Quelaag 2 months ago
@Quelaag i began with KF1 the japan copy. in the early 90s :) I am a "trekky" for the series. have every version from start to finish and love the storyline as well as the games of course. i have quite a few other neat things you might enjoy seeing if interested. never published material and merchandise from the older series.
ganador13 2 months ago
@Quelaag And the project lead director is Hidetaka Miyazaki, for both Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. As for From's aproach though, I havent seen a change at all in the way they tell stories, from KF1 to today. If you mean the Seath impostor specifically, he has not strayed from canon at all. Have you given Sword Of Moonlight a shot btw? It's great for creativity and you seem very good with story bible and character bible analysis. And Verdite is "The Northern Continent" to the keys
ganador13 2 months ago
@ganador13 I was talking about the difference between the Kings Field and Souls series - not Dark and Demon's Souls. Seath wasn't in Demon's Souls - this is his first appearance within Miyazaki's installments.
Quelaag 2 months ago
@Quelaag Ooohhh ok that makes sense my mistake. As far as the Seath impostor, yes this is his first appearance in what people are calling the "Soul Series". Though I myself don't call it that personally. There is only as much separation as there is from the 60s star trek and then TNG star trek. In the end, The impostor Seath has only changed in physical form, not in storyline. Though of course, changing in physical form is an important part of the characters story.
ganador13 2 months ago
@ganador13 Yeahyeah - I agree. I was just saying there may potentially be slightly vague discrepancies between the series. Or a "shift" in aesthetic or whatever - but it still makes sense. Question: What's your view on Dusk? I haven't played the KF series since I was really young, so a lot of smaller details are lost to me and I'm trying soo hard to figure out Oolacile.
Quelaag 1 month ago
@Quelaag I am not too familiar with the people of lordran. It is plain to see that this would be the "land of the giants", to us, but to the giants themselves it is just "lodran", where giants are royal and we are the "small people" who live in the ghetto outside the big walls. As for Oolacile, if Dusk's description states her entire land was destroyed, then it is likely that it was victim to the Icewarrior during the Blue Phoenix's campaign, just like Boletaria and Lordran.
ganador13 1 month ago
@ganador13 There's so much wrong with the land of the giants that I don't want to get started. Firstly, there's concept art that was actually used in the game to show what tlog looks like (google demons souls land of giants - first image) the image shows when the monumental speaks of it. Looks nothing like lordran unfortunately. I believe there is also some translation errors / incontinuities. Selen mentions she's from the west. Tlog is to the north - yet garl has a weapon for smashing giants
Quelaag 1 month ago
@Quelaag The first image that comes up is a representaion of the Kiln of the First Flame. This is not a good representation of tlog as a whole, since it is merely a random chunk of land that was separated from the rest of lordran to act as a prison for gwyn. As for garl, keep in mind giants exist outside lordran, but are few and scattered, and not "in charge" culturally when outside lordran. Lordran and boletaria are likely as close as pittsburg and philadelphia. I will send a PM :)
ganador13 1 month ago
@ganador13 I don't have an IM client unfortunately. :'C I just use facebook at the moment. But yeah, I've been meaning to make a video on all of this. I already have a demons souls / dark souls one.
Quelaag 1 month ago
@ganador13 Hmm just send me an essay on here via PM and I'll PM you back with some theories as well.
Quelaag 1 month ago
@Quelaag The only supporting evidence, is a lack of supporting evidence of anything else both capable of that kind of scale effect, and also with a motive. Kal Fargus, the Ice Warrior of brand is the only one who has both, and is confirmed to be awake during the era of Lordran and Boletaria. As for shifts in aesthetic and such, From has strictly tied their canon since 1994, up till Demon's Souls. I see no evidence of them changing that now.
ganador13 1 month ago
@Quelaag Darn Tiny post limit of youtube... I was going to say a P.S., which is, you have a passion for the lore of the KF world. I would love to chat sometime on some kind of messenger like aim or something and trade studies :)
ganador13 1 month ago
@Quelaag I will say this, if it helps at all: Two eyed giants, are usually snooty, snobby. In the "we are the superior race" way, and usually practice different forms of "light magic", in the classic KF term, which includes lightning and darkmoon stuff. The Cyclops Giants are different and more like monks, and seem to worship only fire, like a cult of pryomancers. I also know that the bible-like speeches origin, is a two eyed giants culture. (thou art, cometh, taketh, giveth and so on).
ganador13 1 month ago
@ganador13 Couldn't be more right. This would also explain how he was able to mate with Gwynevere (my accurate opinion), and she give birth to Priscilla (she looks far more human than Dragon after all).
HazelrahFirefly 1 month ago
Someone thinking moon mad. LOL
Not seriously, thats the pun.
Luis519RS 2 months ago
just wanted to comment on this whilst i was watching it on my phone last night but couldn't ... had some questions but basically they've been answered. SOO just want to say your drawing looks like the inside of a vagana ... and a trollface penis is inside.....umm...that's all :)
wendysnailland 2 months ago
Logan goes mad with knowledge after you buy all his spells, he never got his hands on the primordial crystal. Plus Seath betrayed the ancient dragons to get the key to immortality. Good story though
UFCvsPRIDEfc09 3 months ago
While you do mention this, you miss the reason why Seath is not immortal. I think their scales are the reason for their immortality. Seath (being scaleless) grows jealous of their immortality and wants it for himself. Gwyn sees this and offers Seath a chance to conduct research for his immortality if he were to help him rid the world of the everlasting dragons. I think that the crystals that cover the archives are the byproduct of Seath's research and attempts at immortality (like the Scale).
Gnasanbandam 3 months ago 11
Hey, great videos but I have a couple of issues for you. All this talk of genetics and genetic disorders is really out of context in a fantasy world. It's more about fate, magic, essences, and the like.
WanderingFool100 3 months ago
@WanderingFool100 Blame from software, not me. They put a lot of ancestral / decedent / genetic mutation stuff in their item descriptions. Gaping dragon's weapon etc etc
Quelaag 3 months ago 3
@WanderingFool100 open your mind a little bit more and u cn find connections with alot of things
tharbk01 3 months ago
such an epic picture of frampt
shadowstalker9476 3 months ago
@darkiscoolz You obviously don't keep up on my videos at all. :0 I discuss my dislike for reddit in my Priscilla video.
Quelaag 3 months ago
@darkiscoolz I made an entire video on her. :)
Quelaag 3 months ago
Wait Havel the Rock is one of Gwyn's Knights? I thought he was just Dwayne The Rock Johnson in a bunch of armor and went hollow.
UltraTien 3 months ago
@UltraTien Yep! (Hah I wish). It kind of explains his attire. It can be assumed that he fought the dragons along side Gwyn, and that after Gwyn teamed up with Seath - Havel left or distanced himself from Arno Londo because he hates dragons + seath. Who knows.
Quelaag 3 months ago
You make even more assumptions here. You make the assumption that the dragons are evil which was never hinted at in the game. Seath is a recurring character in From Software games. In the first Kings Field - he is played out as the "Good" dragon, over Guyra, but is later found to be he evil dragon in Kings Field 3. Likewise, the Moonlight sword is a recurring item in the games (Every kings field, DeS, DaS).
ihasmario 3 months ago
@ihasmario You also make the assumption that Gwyn is corrupt, as opposed to a misinterpreted leader. Throughout the game the idea of using humanity on fire is a central theme; and we see that Gwyn has been burning the longest.
Havel is not a pure melee character, he's a bishop and used a number of miracles. He also designed his own miracles, which were designed to combat seath and the other dragons. Judging by the spines on the back of Havel's armor (and the tooth) it may be dragon hide
ihasmario 3 months ago
@ihasmario I believe the 'scales of immortality' refers to the indestructible stone skin possessed by the dragons (which is why the stone dragon in ash lake is immortal to the player). Seath eventually finds and uses the primordial crystal for his own immortality. I don't think it was ever referenced that dragons were "magic" oriented - Seath has always been tied with Moonlight (and the moonlight sword). He was also the father of sorcery in DaS, which is likely why it's tied to the moon
ihasmario 3 months ago
@ihasmario I believe the stone dragon in ash lake is supposed to be a firekeeper, which may also explain why he doesn't talk. The fire keeper in anor londo mentions that the fires with keepers are all "linked", and those are the ones you can warp between with the Lord Vessel. It could have just been a last minute decision for convenience with regards to the covenant. One of his horns is missing, and havel's miracle is in ash lake, which leads me to believe dragon tooth is a mistranslation
ihasmario 3 months ago
@ihasmario The Gaping Dragon isn't the result of a direct descendant, but it is believed to be a mutated dragon, it's on an item description somewhere. The hellkite is a descendant without immortal scales, I suppose. Your understanding of chimps vs humans is wrong, but I don't even care.
The serpent(s?) have always been.
You've had the insight to read the serpent rings, but don't discuss hte possibility of the serpents playing a role in the age of fire, and the age of man.
ihasmario 3 months ago
@ihasmario Also, chimps (bonobos) are an animal that shares a direct common ancestor with us. We didn't evolve from them - and they aren't our ancestor. I may have articulated myself poorly, but its a proper allegory. A mutation is a genetic change that occurs during natural selection. So everything you just said supports my claim. The weapon from the gaping dragon says. "is formed by the tail of the Gaping Dragon, a distant, deformed descendant of the everlasting dragons."
Quelaag 3 months ago
@Quelaag Humans are to the gaping dragon as chimps are to dragons. That was my metaphor.
Quelaag 3 months ago
@Quelaag Sure is 116599459 in here.
ihasmario 3 months ago
@ihasmario I never assumed the dragons were evil. That Gywn was good. That the pygmy was good. etc. etc. I have stated that the ethical issues addressed in the kings field / dark souls / demons souls series are vague and are meant to be morally grey.
Quelaag 3 months ago
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Man, I wish I'd read more into this game.
Instead I wasted 100 hours of play time all to immolate myself for some dead, senile jerk's futile attachment to the past.
I do wish this depth was expressed more out of item descriptions, though, as it's truly fascinating,
moreso than simply stating SOUL ARTS=OLD ONE=DEMONS=BAD, though changing the endings from "good and evil" to basically "conservative and liberal" was a bit of a dick move.
Incandenza69 3 months ago
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Incandenza69 3 months ago
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Incandenza69 3 months ago
@argonisgema
Bro fucking drakes and descendants of dragons, Basically their retarded weaker offspring, the dragons are gone except the eternal one and seath
SpaghettiAndPizza 3 months ago
@SpaghettiAndPizza don't forget gaping dragon's still a dragon not an everlasting dragon but still a dragon.
Argonisgema 3 months ago
@Quelaag "English explorer Sir Francis Drake." Uncharted 3 :D
alchemisted89789 3 months ago
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Anyways, that's just food for thought. I hope I don't sound obnoxious with all those "corrections". I really like your videos, keep up the good work.
NUYgU42536 3 months ago
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NUYgU42536 3 months ago
Or maybe he wanted the books of the archives (I don't know if the archives existed in the Age of Fire). Although I agree with your vision of Gwyn in the beginning, I don't think he had pity of Seath, but rather saw him as a valuable ally which he needed to win the war. Also, as you said, Logan went mad for the same reason as Seath, but I don't think it's the Scales of Immortality. The way Logan speaks before he goes mad, it seems like going mad is the consequence of having too much knowledge.
NUYgU42536 3 months ago
@NUYgU42536 :) Very good points.
Quelaag 3 months ago
I might be wrong about this, but I believe that the Scales of Immortality are regular dragon scales. That explains why Seath isn't immortal (since he's scaleless). Like you said, he was alienated by his kind, the others dragons didn't have anything to do, they waited for him to die of old age. I think this is what made Seath betray is own kind, he was afraid of death and went to Gwyn because he wanted to defeat the dragons, although I don't know why... either vengeace or to collect scales.
NUYgU42536 3 months ago
Drakes are young dragons like how a cub is to a bear or a pup is to a dog.
Argonisgema 3 months ago
@Argonisgema Nope. Please read the weapon descriptions from the drake sword and the gaping dragon axe. :)
Quelaag 3 months ago
@Quelaag I did dragon axe has nothing to do with the word drake and the reason the drake sword says they are undeveloped imitators of dragons is because a young dragon often don't have there wings when they are drakes the hellkite DRAKE just got it's wings so more likely it died young.
Argonisgema 3 months ago
@Argonisgema Where did you find that information? Last time I checked drake = "Drake \d-ra-ke\ as a boy's name is pronounced drayk. It is of Middle English origin, and the meaning of Drake is "dragon". From Drakon (Greek) or "draca", the medieval term for "dragon". Originally Drake designated the man who kept the inn with the dragon trademark, or the "Sign of the Dragon". Drago is an Italian form; Draco is Latin. English explorer Sir Francis Drake."
Quelaag 3 months ago
@Quelaag I get my information from years of dragon mythos books peace-ing together the different types all over the world i recommend black drago dot com for basic dragon info.
Argonisgema 3 months ago
@Quelaag I sorry for what i said if i sound rude to you it's just to many times i see people say what they think about the word drake and i always feel compelled to say what it is though it doesn't help me that there are multiple meanings when you compare the word drake to dragon alone so lets start again i like your videos explaining the backstory of dark souls i think we both agree we like the game.
Argonisgema 3 months ago
@Quelaag also i loled at that drawing of frampt.
Argonisgema 3 months ago
@Argonisgema Also, there is the gaping dragon which I brought up before. Dragon is clearly in its name - yet it is not one of the "everlasting" dragons that appeared in the prologue
Quelaag 3 months ago
So sharing this >:D you give the story dept
SpardaTheking 3 months ago
@SpardaTheking :D Thanks!
Quelaag 3 months ago
whos the dragon from demon's souls intro, anything special about him, or is he jus there look like a beast lol
mattatthome 3 months ago
@mattatthome DEMON'S souls? that'd be the dragon god. archdemon of world 2. surprisingly easy, compared to the boss before him (flamelurker)
lamenotcool 3 months ago
@lamenotcool yea lol i would skip around through the worlds...i would wonder why world 4 was getting so hard, going to have to play thru it right soon, but ty
mattatthome 3 months ago
@mattatthome This is Dark Souls lore. :) Not Demon's Souls. I'll make a video on the comparison of the two once I finish these videos.
Quelaag 3 months ago
the red dragon on the bridge isn't a dragon dragon its a wayvern
alchemisted89789 3 months ago
@alchemisted89789 I said that. "Hellkite drake".
Quelaag 3 months ago
@Quelaag oh gatcha :3 i will step down master *kneels*
alchemisted89789 3 months ago
@alchemisted89789 Know your place commoner!
D: Just kidding - I've always wanted to say that. Thanks for helping though! :D
Quelaag 3 months ago
@Quelaag your welcome My dear sister Quelaag
alchemisted89789 3 months ago
I was wrote that I see seethe as more of an alchemist and that he was trying to make an artificial scale of immortality which would explain all the enemies covered in diamonds which I assume were his failed experiments on the subjects of anor Londo that wandered into the archives kind of like a philosophers stone kind of edge to it with the end result him surpassing his dragon brethren who shunned him
TheWavebird 3 months ago
Did all that come out in the comments my phone won't let me see more :,(
TheWavebird 3 months ago
I'm so glad you're doing the thinking so that I don't have to.
jimmyjoejoeshabadoo 3 months ago 2
@jimmyjoejoeshabadoo That's why I'm here.
Quelaag 3 months ago
@ Quelagg Actually if you talk to anor Londo's fire keeper she tells you that he betrayed his kind and was given dukedom by Gwynn and allowed to do experiments ect. But then went mad and that the fellow gods or humans ect didn't go to the archives because no one came back my hypothesis is that he was a type of scholar among dragons but was shunned from his kind because of dragons naturally being primal brutes I know the moonlight butterfly is one of his experiments but I think the main goal of
TheWavebird 3 months ago
@TheWavebird Nah that didn't all come out. Also, him being a scholar and not a brute is still what I was saying regarding animals. He was alienated because he was different or not ideal for reproduction. Thats why bullying happens. That's why alienation happens. Its because a person isn't "ideal".
Quelaag 3 months ago
u should make a kaathe and hes like problem Gwyn? xD
alchemisted89789 3 months ago
WOW you are a huge faggot.
Darmani421 3 months ago
@Darmani421 Thanks.
Quelaag 3 months ago
@Quelaag Quelaag, you are the spidergirl of my heart
Darmani421 3 months ago
@Darmani421 You know how to sweet talk a lady.
Quelaag 3 months ago
@Quelaag My words are like a fully kindled flame. +20 estus flask.
Darmani421 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
How about you fuck off
HaioHaoi 3 months ago
lol frampt is a troll. Couldnt concentrate on the video because of it jk.
I always thought dragons were immortal (but killable) because of the scales, and seath betrayed them so he could research on how to get scales, probably not true, but they are called everlasting right?
BlackWingGenesis 3 months ago
Awesome video,glad you covered Seath.
Nintendoguy19 3 months ago
Rape Rodent face on frampt = priceless.
.
Dragons were stronger than Gods? So with the lord souls they became stronger and defeated them.
m4sterch13f222 3 months ago 2
@m4sterch13f222 Yep!
Quelaag 3 months ago
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lol Primordial Trollface Kaathe
DemonFoxDeity 3 months ago
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DemonFoxDeity 3 months ago
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DemonFoxDeity 3 months ago
I'd rather see you're awesome interpretations of the characters (like the Witch Izalith!) than these faces that have been beaten to death for 4+ years.
reDustt 3 months ago
I saw the trollface and laughed. I will watch after work. :3
nubstopable 3 months ago
Ackghah! You skipped Priscilla! that was the one I was looking forward to seeing hammered out! Great video though!
magekd1 3 months ago
@magekd1 Awh butts I totally forgot. I'll annotate it really quick. I'n so sorry. :)
Quelaag 3 months ago
@magekd1 Actually I'll make a quick 4.2 in the morning.
Quelaag 3 months ago
Are you going to eventually go into what is the "good ending" and what is the "bad ending", cause that is one thing I've seen debated a lot online and I'm not really clear on it myself.
ataridc 3 months ago
@ataridc Yep!
Quelaag 3 months ago
you should make a vid about what you get for joining a covenant in dark souls
rainbowxfddbb 3 months ago
@rainbowxfddbb I will! :D Don't worry. I plan on getting through these videos first really quick. Its been a mess with school and work though.
Quelaag 3 months ago
@Quelaag ok thank you and great vids very helpful
rainbowxfddbb 3 months ago
whoa! I think I actually saw your face for a millisecond. Pretty cute.
MustardDragon 3 months ago
good artist.
Ragequit1994 3 months ago
@Ragequit1994 Thnx man
Quelaag 3 months ago