Gretzky and Lemieux are both among the greatest players in hockey history. They surely rank 1,2 in offensive abilities. In considering the question of the greatest player, there are many attributes that must be considered, offense being one of them. They both lack in too many areas to get my vote. Bobby Orr comes to mind as having the most of everything.
Hi juzu, If you'd read my post carefully, you'd have realized I was suggesting an all-time starting, based on 40 years of watching hockey. Fetisov and Orr are included because they're my top choice defensemen.
Maxie1111, I saw both men play at their peak and I'm afraid to have to tell you that Gretzky was the better player. Mario was a very great player, one of the top 5 ever IMHO (Gretzky aside, my other three choices would be Orr, Fetisov and Kharlamov). You can order Canada Cup '87 at Amazon (I did). I suggest you watch those games...it should be a pleasure for any hockey fan...and then reassess your opinion. Mario was great, but Gretzky was out of this world, a once-in-a-century hockey genius.
@valvika there isn't one Russian in the top 25 of scoring in the NHL all time so Fetisov? Come on. How about Rocket Richard? Beliveau? I realize you're entitled to your opinion and I'm not trying to deprive you of it but at least give the subject a bit of thought before you publish it. I do agree that Gretzky and Lemieux were the 2 best all time. btw if you talk to swedes they'll tell you Forseberg is the best NHL player ever, followed by Sundin. And the Finns will say Selanne
Funny how Feitsov shook the refs hands after the game and gave them congrats on doing a good job. It had nothing to with sportsmanship, he was honest.
Detroit waited a long time to win a Stanley Cup after the 1950's. They had to wait for the Soviet collapse and the opportunity to have five Russians make up half their team.
So I guess, what?...Guys like Yzerman, Shannahan, Draper and McCarty had nothing to do with those Stanley Cups?...It takes a heck of a lot more than 5 guys to grind it out in the war that is the Stanley Cup Playoffs
Were their any Russians that won the Conn Smythe as playoff MVP when they won their recent share of Stanley Cups, espically when the Russian 5 were on there? Not really.
How else could Canada beat them? Are you for real? How did Canada win the '76, '84, '87,'91 Canada Cup. How did they win the 2002 Olympic Gold? How many tournaments have the Russians won in which all countries best playeres were alowed? You can't count anything before Nagano because those tourneys were just full of guys who couldn't even make the AHL or IHL for that matter...In fact even playing Major Junior barred you from playing in the Olympics...Russian hockey is a second rate myth
No Russian in the NHL has heart it's all "me me me,I want to be the star". Perfect example Fedorov in Detroit hated being in SY's shadow and chose to leave a winning team b/c he wanted the fame and look at the bum now.
The Russians lost plain and simple.They had no defense against Mario and Gretzky the 2 greatest players of all time.Overall Canadian hockey is superior.The Russians had a good run with their great skating ability,but the Canadians and the rest of the hockey world caught up and you can't win with only skating ability you need that extra something that Russians never had,heart.
Come on RUFU, what do you mean no defense? If you've watched those games in their entirety (which I have more than once), you'll see that the Soviets were just as good as Canada. It could easily have gone the other way. And, yes, Gretzky was the GREATEST, but Lemieux, nah, sorry, though great not of the same calibre.
Mario actually has a higher "points per game ratio" than Gretzky.... Although Mario played fewer games, he got more points per game.... Many people don't know that. He has the best all time points per game stat....
Many "people don't know that" because its not actually true - Mario had more before his first retirement, but by the time he retired for good he was lower. Gretzky's career PPG is 1.92, Mario's 1.88. But through the same number of games Gretzky was at 2.32. He fell off that pace only because he played so much longer, and until he was nearly 40. Mario's pace was already dropping, (as shown by him falling behind when he came out of retirement) and he played 500 less games.
When did Gretzky save a franchize like Lemieux? The kings weren't gonna move b4 he arrived. But, even if Wayne was on a crappy team that was abt to move, they wouldn't have stayed anyway. He succeded cause of enforcers, Mario didn't have any and he was more tougher than 99.
How does saving a franchise make him a better player? Same with tougher - Semenko was tougher than Gretzky, but was no where near as good. Lots of people were tougher, but Wayne using had 2x as many points as them. Or more. Gretzky was also FAR more durable than Lemieux, so really, which was tougher? Lemieux wasn't a fighter either - he was a big strong guy who mostly played like a small weak skills guy.
@shazariahl Honestly, I'll take Glen Sather's comments of witnessing Lemieux over yours..."If it wasn't for Lemieux, the Pens would have packed up and left." This was right after Lemieux rookie season when he said it. You wanna compare how many good players Lemieux had compared to Wayne when he started in the NHL? None, he didn't have a player like Messier, Coffee, Anderson Kurri for support until the late 80's and early 90's, he had to do it alone.
@shazariahl Far more durable than Lemieux, bud, anyone who touched him had a death warrant on him, he finished dead last in physical tests, had back spasms after one of the Canada Cups he played in, I kid you not, he couldn't go into the corners with out being knocked down on his ass. Btw you never did see Lemieux fight with a comment like that, I did and he did pretty well. As for the injuries and the cancer that Mario had, try having 10% of that at work, then get back to me.
russia are useless bums, they do have hot women, but for hockey they are a joke. Should you guys be sinking your subs like the kurst and leaving men alive down there. Shame on putin
Unammed00, you're such a joke, whining about something that was almost 20 years ago. Your various posts on this subject show that you still can't get over it, and probably never will. If it wasn't so funny, I would pity you.
You couldn't speak the truth if you tried. I know you're a little obsessive when it relates to Soviet hockey, a quick bit of searching shows you have over 100 comments on YouTube relating to it. The facts however, show that Canada won and the Soviets lost.
Please keep whining about it though, since they prove my comments to be true.
ummm when they played in russia, ya there where. the penalties where so lopsided against the canadians it was sad, not to mension the whole canadian team got food poisoning before a night before a game.
No. That's not a viable excuse. 3 of Canada's goals were grinder goals, two from Brent Sutter. The Soviets' poor defensive coverage down low lead to Canadian "crash the net" goals.
Only a fool would blame a blown 3 goal lead on officiating alone.
No, only a fool ignores obviously bad and biased officiating.
Poor defensive coverage? On the second goal, Tochett grabs a hold of Stelnov then elbows him and this allows Canada to score. The fifth goal is even worse; Sutter just holds Kasatonov's stick allowing Hawerchuk to get the puck and score.
You want to see poor defensive play, look at the Soviet's 1st, 3rd, and 5th goals.
You're making it sound as if the Soviets never did anything wrong. It was payback for Piestany, when your "perfect" Jr. bastards jumped the boards and started a benchclearing brawl, realizing Gold was out of reach. Now that's hockey...
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jamestargetedindiv 7 months ago
Gretzky and Lemieux are both among the greatest players in hockey history. They surely rank 1,2 in offensive abilities. In considering the question of the greatest player, there are many attributes that must be considered, offense being one of them. They both lack in too many areas to get my vote. Bobby Orr comes to mind as having the most of everything.
MrDaemonB 1 year ago
Hi juzu, If you'd read my post carefully, you'd have realized I was suggesting an all-time starting, based on 40 years of watching hockey. Fetisov and Orr are included because they're my top choice defensemen.
valvika 1 year ago
anyone have any better video -this is crap vid of a great goal
wildhippy 2 years ago
Maxie1111, I saw both men play at their peak and I'm afraid to have to tell you that Gretzky was the better player. Mario was a very great player, one of the top 5 ever IMHO (Gretzky aside, my other three choices would be Orr, Fetisov and Kharlamov). You can order Canada Cup '87 at Amazon (I did). I suggest you watch those games...it should be a pleasure for any hockey fan...and then reassess your opinion. Mario was great, but Gretzky was out of this world, a once-in-a-century hockey genius.
valvika 3 years ago
@valvika there isn't one Russian in the top 25 of scoring in the NHL all time so Fetisov? Come on. How about Rocket Richard? Beliveau? I realize you're entitled to your opinion and I'm not trying to deprive you of it but at least give the subject a bit of thought before you publish it. I do agree that Gretzky and Lemieux were the 2 best all time. btw if you talk to swedes they'll tell you Forseberg is the best NHL player ever, followed by Sundin. And the Finns will say Selanne
juzu4me 1 year ago
Funny how Feitsov shook the refs hands after the game and gave them congrats on doing a good job. It had nothing to with sportsmanship, he was honest.
Maxie1111 3 years ago
This sucks...nice audio.
bepositiveone 4 years ago
Detroit waited a long time to win a Stanley Cup after the 1950's. They had to wait for the Soviet collapse and the opportunity to have five Russians make up half their team.
ricknorth77 5 years ago
5 guys make up half a hockey team? What's that...Russian mathematics?
chichigord 5 years ago
No, its the ol' 80/20 rule. 20% of the people do 80% of the work.
I wouldn't make comments about other nations mathematics prowess if you are an American schooled in American schools.
ricknorth77 5 years ago
So I guess, what?...Guys like Yzerman, Shannahan, Draper and McCarty had nothing to do with those Stanley Cups?...It takes a heck of a lot more than 5 guys to grind it out in the war that is the Stanley Cup Playoffs
chichigord 5 years ago
Were their any Russians that won the Conn Smythe as playoff MVP when they won their recent share of Stanley Cups, espically when the Russian 5 were on there? Not really.
Maxie1111 3 years ago
Four on one breakaway goal (3 canucks and a ref...on one unhooked to the ice Russian...how else could Canada beat them?)
ricknorth77 5 years ago
How else could Canada beat them? Are you for real? How did Canada win the '76, '84, '87,'91 Canada Cup. How did they win the 2002 Olympic Gold? How many tournaments have the Russians won in which all countries best playeres were alowed? You can't count anything before Nagano because those tourneys were just full of guys who couldn't even make the AHL or IHL for that matter...In fact even playing Major Junior barred you from playing in the Olympics...Russian hockey is a second rate myth
chichigord 5 years ago
No Russian in the NHL has heart it's all "me me me,I want to be the star". Perfect example Fedorov in Detroit hated being in SY's shadow and chose to leave a winning team b/c he wanted the fame and look at the bum now.
RUFUS2366 5 years ago
The Russians lost plain and simple.They had no defense against Mario and Gretzky the 2 greatest players of all time.Overall Canadian hockey is superior.The Russians had a good run with their great skating ability,but the Canadians and the rest of the hockey world caught up and you can't win with only skating ability you need that extra something that Russians never had,heart.
RUFUS2366 5 years ago
Come on RUFU, what do you mean no defense? If you've watched those games in their entirety (which I have more than once), you'll see that the Soviets were just as good as Canada. It could easily have gone the other way. And, yes, Gretzky was the GREATEST, but Lemieux, nah, sorry, though great not of the same calibre.
valvika 5 years ago
Mario actually has a higher "points per game ratio" than Gretzky.... Although Mario played fewer games, he got more points per game.... Many people don't know that. He has the best all time points per game stat....
Philtertip 4 years ago
Many "people don't know that" because its not actually true - Mario had more before his first retirement, but by the time he retired for good he was lower. Gretzky's career PPG is 1.92, Mario's 1.88. But through the same number of games Gretzky was at 2.32. He fell off that pace only because he played so much longer, and until he was nearly 40. Mario's pace was already dropping, (as shown by him falling behind when he came out of retirement) and he played 500 less games.
shazariahl 2 years ago
When did Gretzky save a franchize like Lemieux? The kings weren't gonna move b4 he arrived. But, even if Wayne was on a crappy team that was abt to move, they wouldn't have stayed anyway. He succeded cause of enforcers, Mario didn't have any and he was more tougher than 99.
Maxie1111 3 years ago
How does saving a franchise make him a better player? Same with tougher - Semenko was tougher than Gretzky, but was no where near as good. Lots of people were tougher, but Wayne using had 2x as many points as them. Or more. Gretzky was also FAR more durable than Lemieux, so really, which was tougher? Lemieux wasn't a fighter either - he was a big strong guy who mostly played like a small weak skills guy.
shazariahl 2 years ago
@shazariahl Honestly, I'll take Glen Sather's comments of witnessing Lemieux over yours..."If it wasn't for Lemieux, the Pens would have packed up and left." This was right after Lemieux rookie season when he said it. You wanna compare how many good players Lemieux had compared to Wayne when he started in the NHL? None, he didn't have a player like Messier, Coffee, Anderson Kurri for support until the late 80's and early 90's, he had to do it alone.
Maxie1111 1 month ago
@shazariahl Far more durable than Lemieux, bud, anyone who touched him had a death warrant on him, he finished dead last in physical tests, had back spasms after one of the Canada Cups he played in, I kid you not, he couldn't go into the corners with out being knocked down on his ass. Btw you never did see Lemieux fight with a comment like that, I did and he did pretty well. As for the injuries and the cancer that Mario had, try having 10% of that at work, then get back to me.
Maxie1111 1 month ago
russia are useless bums, they do have hot women, but for hockey they are a joke. Should you guys be sinking your subs like the kurst and leaving men alive down there. Shame on putin
silvio9999 5 years ago
Unammed00, you're such a joke, whining about something that was almost 20 years ago. Your various posts on this subject show that you still can't get over it, and probably never will. If it wasn't so funny, I would pity you.
northerncynic 5 years ago
No, I am just trying to enlighten ignorant North Americans like yourself.
And you know that what I am saying is true.
unnamed00 5 years ago
You couldn't speak the truth if you tried. I know you're a little obsessive when it relates to Soviet hockey, a quick bit of searching shows you have over 100 comments on YouTube relating to it. The facts however, show that Canada won and the Soviets lost.
Please keep whining about it though, since they prove my comments to be true.
northerncynic 5 years ago
The facts also show that Canada was helped by its referee. You whine about me whining because you know I am right.
And how do you search for comments?
unnamed00 5 years ago
ya lets not forget the bad soviet refereeinh in the 72 series good lord
BECKERvaiMALMSTEEN66 5 years ago
There were no Soviet referees in 72.
unnamed00 5 years ago
ummm when they played in russia, ya there where. the penalties where so lopsided against the canadians it was sad, not to mension the whole canadian team got food poisoning before a night before a game.
BECKERvaiMALMSTEEN66 5 years ago
Food poisoning???
Again, there were no Soviet referee in 72.
unnamed00 5 years ago
in the 72 series when canada went over there they used there referees. and yes there was cases of food poisoning. learn your hockey history
BECKERvaiMALMSTEEN66 5 years ago
No, you learn your history; there were no Soviet referees. And give me a source for the food poisoning.
unnamed00 5 years ago
Well it is true and it is not the only questionable incident in the game.
unnamed00 5 years ago
Calls or no calls, how did the Soviets blow a 3-0 lead?
Flamesfan7 5 years ago
The answer is in your question. Referee Koharski gave Canada powerplay chances (bad calls) and let them get away with a lot (bad no calls).
unnamed00 5 years ago
No. That's not a viable excuse. 3 of Canada's goals were grinder goals, two from Brent Sutter. The Soviets' poor defensive coverage down low lead to Canadian "crash the net" goals.
Only a fool would blame a blown 3 goal lead on officiating alone.
Flamesfan7 5 years ago
No, only a fool ignores obviously bad and biased officiating.
Poor defensive coverage? On the second goal, Tochett grabs a hold of Stelnov then elbows him and this allows Canada to score. The fifth goal is even worse; Sutter just holds Kasatonov's stick allowing Hawerchuk to get the puck and score.
You want to see poor defensive play, look at the Soviet's 1st, 3rd, and 5th goals.
unnamed00 5 years ago
Someone's quite bitter about the loss...
You're making it sound as if the Soviets never did anything wrong. It was payback for Piestany, when your "perfect" Jr. bastards jumped the boards and started a benchclearing brawl, realizing Gold was out of reach. Now that's hockey...
Flamesfan7 5 years ago
I am not saying they never did anything wrong.
You bringing up some junior tournament into this means that you have no real arguements.
unnamed00 5 years ago
russians can suck my dick, they're so bad at hockey
shawnharris43 5 years ago
because they suck
shawnharris43 5 years ago
You are just a dumb fag.
unnamed00 5 years ago
haha, at least im not russian, cuntface
shawnharris43 5 years ago
But you are a redneck Canadian who admitted he is gay.
unnamed00 5 years ago
lol russians can suck a cock, stupid fuckin cunt
shawnharris43 5 years ago
you lose, faggot
shawnharris43 5 years ago
Why are you still talking you retarded gayass.
unnamed00 5 years ago
your too russian and useless to understand you fuckin douche
shawnharris43 5 years ago
Understand what dumbass?
unnamed00 5 years ago
That sounds like sour grapes.
mikeboon 5 years ago
Why did you cut the part where the Soviet player is clearly hooked down leaving Lemieux open?
unnamed00 5 years ago
because your a faggot!
shawnharris43 5 years ago
You just admitted to being a dumb fag.
unnamed00 5 years ago