Commuter thoughts on the London Underground strike

[paddedpencil]

groan to the american's response. we're not all that dumb, i swear!

[Jammy49]

That would be WELL OVER 300 earning £60k+ a year...

According to the RMT, it's nearly triple that... 844.

The top manager earns over £540k + Bonus!

...And they tried tying staff to a 5yr pay deal at 0.5%

They probably get bonuses for keeping the wage bill low!

[BGH122]

This has always seemed a really suspicious claim to me. What makes you think that those earning significantly higher salaries, such as the management, are doing nothing to earn this. Do you have any experience of this being the case? I don't mean that in an accusing way, I'm just trying to get to grips with what's REALLY going on.

[BGH122]

By low-level job I mean 'unskilled labour'. Whilst it's a fricking horrible job, that I don't doubt, so's all unskilled labour, such as construction, oil drilling etc. They all require training but that doesn't mean they're skilled labour. Skilled labour would be, for instance, an IT specialist since they have a skill that (supposedly) not everyone can learn. They get paid more because they're in higher demand, which is much like the managers that the unions bitch about.

[DontWorry865]

The second guy interviewed knows nothin. London Underground is no way one of the best transports, trains are constantly delayed, filthy trains and platforms and the underground is xtremely overpriced. That second kid is a posh toff who needs to get slapped up

[womblevra]

mate, the reason the trains and platforms are filthy is down to the dirty tramps that throw their rubbish on the floor

[Bachsoboe]

Up the workers, Socialism for ever!

[PattayaDIRTY]

Tube drivers are so lucky they have a well paid job at the time of a recession. They are greedy.Try living on the rock n roll.

[wookiecookie88]

Seriously, a primary news organisation interviewing a bunch of people who really have nothing of particular value or interest to say. What a waste!

[kidt1988]

he is from london, idiot.

[hugoegbert79]

"WE'RE FROM AMERICA!"

[smchic]

A lot of people are complaining that the views in this video don't represent Londoners. I am a Londoner and I wholly support the RMT. If one of the strongest unions in the country doesn't stand up against job cuts, who will? If they lose, we all lose, because all employers will find it easier to cut pay and staff. I suspect that Boris Johnson, as chair of TfL, has a hand in causing this, and is on the warpath against the unions. The RMT should give him and the tube bosses no quarter.

[BGH122]

Look, we're all pissed off that we're losing our job but that's just a fact of life at the moment. No it's not fair that companies are having to make redundancies, but they're not doing it because they want to crush the working man, they're doing it because the economy is so bad that they can't afford to employ any workers. I suggest the people going around with the false notion that it's the evil employer versus the brave upstanding working man and his union grow up.

[smchic]

Losing your job is not 'a fact of life', it's a fact of political economy. Employers have an imperative to augment the profit margins for investors. Our interest is to stop them from doing that by cutting our pay and shedding jobs. Working people formed unions because in the absence of such organisation the employers could ride roughshod over workers' needs. It is in our interest, therefore, to see unions thrive, not demand that they be 'crushed' by the government.

[BGH122]

... laws such as minimum wage, health and safety and so on. Unions simply are not necessary in today's workplace because instead of using their power to raise legitimate complaints they just operate on a very dated class-war 'us vs them' mentality. Also, losing your job actually is a huge possibility in a bust. That's the drawback of capitalism, the bust/boom cycle. We're currently in a bust and yet the RMT tried to demand 0 redundancies and a 5% increase to their £40k STARTING salary ...

[smchic]

1) Unions are necessary as long as workers have no alternative source of self-organisation and power with respect to the employers. 2) Jobs are shed in bust, but there's no reason to simply accept this as if it were a 'natural disaster'. It's a result of the way the economy is organised. 3) The RMT actually conceded on the so-called 5% increase (over a period of years). The sticking issue is that of jobs. The RMT is defending jobs: and a good thing for the economy too, which needs the demand.

[womblevra]

Mate, look in the job centre for the starting salary of a frontline member of staff, then post back the reply...as for our holidays that you seem to know all about, you forgot to mention the UNPAID hours that we work each week which are "totted up " to make those days off...(and no we don't have a choice about working them) most people working more than their contractual hours would be paid overtime! we get time off, cheaper still for the company. you really should do a bit more research

[BGH122]

I'm reporting what every newspaper I've read on the issue has said. I, perhaps foolishly, believed them. But whatever, I'm tired of posting here. The only information I've seen which posts figures close to what you mention is the Guardian's article on train drivers from way back in 2002 which mentions that drivers starting salaries at 25-30K with between 35-40 days holiday due to "working unsociable hours and at weekends". But let's face it, I've not failed for lack of research.

[BGH122]

Informative! Thanks. That's still a pretty damn good deal for a low-level job.

[kriskobus]

Yet you seem to be focusing on drivers, does this mean that there are no other workers on the underground?

[BGH122]

Nope, I'm just totally unaware as to how LU operates. I'm not sure if it's rotational, for instance, with some days a member of staff driving and some days operating the HR side of things.

[smchic]

Perhaps you think you have more in common with the minority who own most of the wealth than with the majority who have to work for a living. But you need to reconsider why that is. Do you own a company? Or do you, like most people, rely on wages and debt? If the latter, what on earth would compel you to take the employers' side when it is not in your interests to do so? Btw, anyone who calls for unions to be crushed doesn't get to tell anyone else to 'grow up'. That's a rule.

[BGH122]

No, it's not a rule. If you genuinely think that my differing opinion means that I don't get to hold you in contempt then you're very foolish. Unions represent the greed of the workers, greed is a bad thing. We do not counter the greed of employers by increasing the greed of the worker, that's just irritatingly immature 'two wrong' logic. Legislation prevents workers from being exploited by the employer, back when the concept of unions was first created workers were not vouch-safed by ...

[smchic]

It has nothing to do with greed (and btw your 'contempt' is a matter of complete indifference to me). Unions represent the interests of the workers - the people who produce the wealth in the first place. Greed is demanding what one isn't entitled to. Defending jobs is what one is entitled to. The legislation that protects workers from some of the more egregious forms of exploitation is entirely the result of struggle by working people, some of whom you would have 'crushed'.

[BGH122]

The contempt comment was a rebuttal to your attempt to deny me the right to tell you to grow up. I do not care whether or not you think my contempt is interesting, the point is that you were incorrect to say I am not entitled to it. Regardless, it is fairly clear that your issue is with capitalism itself, as with so many unionists, but that's tough luck. I don't particularly love capitalism either; it is a very unfair, greed-driven system but until something better is designed it's staying.

[smchic]

Most people would understand that I was taking the piss, not literally proposing a curtailment of your 'rights'. But you aren't being logical. You say you don't love capitalism, but don't see an alternative. Fine. But there is more than one kind of capitalism. We can have have strong trade unions that defend our interests, good welfare safety nets, good pensions, high wages across the board, etc. Or we can 'crush' the unions, as you advocate, and allow the bosses to do whatever they like.

[BGH122]

No, I was advocating crushing 'these' unions - ones that strike whenever they don't get their way. Strike Action is the -last- resort of a union, it's the equivalent of a government going to war, yet the RMT strikes whenever its stupidly high demands aren't met. It's also just a matter of fact that, regardless how anti-Libertarian we make capitalism there will still be peaks and troughs in the economy. In troughs people have to get fired, it's tough luck but it's just part of capitalism.

[BGH122]

... the tube workers are already amongst the highest paid low-level workers in the country, with 43 days holiday to boot. They are in no dire need of intervention. They are not fighting the noble fight of the poor common man versus the evil employer, they are just being plain greedy. Also, it may interest you to know that the reason the tube strikes erupted was that two workers were fired. One for opening the door on the wrong side of the platform and the other for theft.

[kate1208arm]

It just shows how much you don't know.

The 48 hours strike was NOT about the two sacked drivers. Do you really believe in what Boris says????...

[BGH122]

Actually that's what Crow said on his Guardian blog. Do try and keep up.

[theignorantpeasant]

I earn far less than £40k, as do all of my colleagues who joined me on picket lines last week. 43 days holiday? It was 29 last time I looked, which is 2 more than I had in a previous office job. The rest of the days you've misquoted are days in lieu of 2.5 hours a day unpaid, and bank holidays that I don't have the pleasure of sharing with my family.

As for the two sacked drivers, their issue is separate to the recent strike. It is a local issue on the Victoria Line, with their own action.

[BGH122]

Interesting, thanks for shining some truth on this situation. The data the media was quoting did seem a little fishy. Given that, now I've been disproved, I have absolutely no idea how much you earn I can't really continue to comment on whether or not you 'deserve' more money. I can say, however, that regardless how left leaning the posters on this particular comment board are, this is not representative of the majority of Londoners. The RMT's striking is really beginning to piss us off.

[82pot]

Bring back thatcher.

[BGH122]

Amen to that. I want these unions crushed.

[charleylikes]

a view shared by hitler

[akadir]

The Ultimate Video Response to the RMT and its' Tube Workers!

watch?v=FYVJSOFZxDE

[akadir]

The cheeky bastards think that they deserve a flat 5% pay rise when EVERYONE else is suffering reposessions and job redundancies? Normal people like me and others are content with not receiving a payrise AT ALL this year!

The economy is falling apart, and they want to make *us*, the customer (we will inevitably share a portion of the cost via ticket prices) pay them MORE?

[womblevra]

sorry mate, you're another one that has NO IDEA what you're talking about....it's 0.5%

gotta tell ya my gas electric and rent have gone up by more than that, so as a frontline member of lul NOT EARNING 40K i'm taking a wage CUT

So do you think you're fares are going to go down?

[BGH122]

This was such a ludicrously biased video. It's no wonder people don't watch ITN. Not a single person I know supports the RMT.

[82pot]

They could've interviewed someone from actual London. Not students and tourists. totally lame

[toppackage]

London Underground can go fuck off going on about pay there far from minimum wage the cunts for instance Drivers get £40k so poor bastards

[BGH122]

Yup, those poor poor tube drivers getting a measly 38 days holiday and £40k a year for an unskilled job. I'm sick and tired of the RMT's semi-socialist bullshit, there HAS to be redundancies for fucks sake, look at the state of the economy,