People don't understand Spong because it takes so long to understand what you already do. The idea that you might have to start from scratch and understand things differently is simply a too big a task, so you stick with what you know without fully questioning what you know. The chances are, what you know now came from an era of great questioning. The idea that we should continue to question does not register with most people.
Why would it matter at all if I'm gay? If it does, it makes you a completely bigoted ass. Why does it matter who was hung naked and bloody to a cross? Love is love and morality is morality, and this guy has more love and morality in his pinky finger than the entire Old Testament.
@me4901 Not the one of the New Testament. You want quotes from this particular video? Why don't you read "Christianity Must Change or Die", "Living in Sin", "Rescuing the Bible From Fundamentalism", and every other book he has written. I have read EVERYONE OF THEM!. HE DOESN'T ACCEPT THE DIVINITY OF JESUS CHRIST, HIS BODILY RESURRECTION, ETC, ETC, ETC. THAT IS NOT THE JESUS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT OR THE HISTORIC CHRISTIAN CHURCH!.
@morrisondan He speaks on one God, not many, so it can't be pantheistic. He speaks of God being the source of all life and being the basis for love, which sounds like God as described by Jesus. Exactly what do you disagree with can you quote something from this video you disagree with and say why it's not Christian ?
@me4901 HIS ONE GOD, ISN'T PERSONAL, DIDN'T COME TO EARTH TO SAVE PEOPLE, DID NOT RAISE FROM THE DEAD, JESUS CHRIST ISN'T HIS SON, & on & ON & ON!. Spong's "god" isn't the God of the Old & New Testament. Also, "he speaks on one God, not many, so it can't be pantheistic".....PANTHEISM IS NOT POLYTHEISM!. YOU HAVE YOUR TERMS MIXED UP HERE!. POLY=MANY, PAN= "God" IS NATURE & NATURE IS GOD OR IN GOD, no distintiction between creator & creation!. THAT IS PANTHEISM!
@morrisondan Yeah, so what are you going to do about it, write in all caps on his youtube videos explaining how his belief system is different to yours? That's going to be very effective.
@EdsEnemy I will do the same thing you did just now, by posting YOUR OPINION OF MY WORDS!. I will post MY OPINION of SPONG'S WORDS!. It's a free country & we all have the right to express ourselfs!. If you don't agree with me, that's OK!. Wouldn't the world be a boring & miserable place if we all agreed with one another? Now, go play with yourself & leave me alone, please!.
This guy is a jack ass. I'm not a christian but give me an honest christian any day over this charlatan who just rewrites history to suit his own warm fuzzy glow of a worldview. He hadn't even heard of a very prominent figure from his own herigate (Bishop Ryle). Complete imbecile, pompous windbag and self-publicist who has been to see the stage play of his own life story multiple times, which just about says it all.
Heretic, heretic, heretic, heretic, heretic sing it with me! Sin and depravity is not something to offer... We have no good within "our own being," Romans 7:18. Ever wonder why atheists love him? It's because he doesn't preach the Bible, he doesn't preach the gospel, he doesn't preach about sin but rather he glories in it! He's the preacher for the world and of the world. He speaks love but he hates people when he says, you are fine just the way you are. He's a charlatan people.
@blakodeel No, he's someone who has lived within all the lies of religion, seen the light and is trying to get someting actually good out of it instead of the normal hate fill garbage it normally spews. I'm not trying to pick on christianity alone, I mean all religion, they are all the same.
Good people will do good things regardless but it takes religion to make good people do horrible things.
@Jason442200 So you would prefer someone to continue genuinely not believing in orthodoxy yet propping himself up as a teacher of a faith he doesn't submit to? There's no virtue in that. And while generally accusing religion of having people do bad things I could just as easily say Stalin's, Hitler's and Pol Pot's atheism could be behind their evil, but I won't because that's just as unfair as lumping religion to be the evil of the world
@blakodeel You do realize Hitler was a catholic carrying out "god's" duty right? Besides, as I said in the quote, bad people will do bad things, like Pol Pot and how did he get good people to do his bidding? Prop himself up as a god. But as far as this guy goes, he's following faith in a more buddhist way, which I have no problem with, orthodoxy is the main problem with religion anyway. Why stick to a hard core line when nothing about the idea can be proven past personal feelings?
@Jason442200 That's why he never read the Bible and killed people, he was darwinian in his mindset. the standard of Christianity is scripture, and feelings don't matter when it says otherwise
@blakodeel Ya, but he claimed to be doing god's work, thats my point. How can I stand there and say one mad man is wrong when there are countless other in a book that claim to be right. How do you know god wasn't talking to and guiding him? Men in the bible supposedly had god tell them to do countless horrible things, so why should hitler be any different? Scripture has no bearing on life, it's just an excuse
@blakodeel "you are fine just the way you are" is exactly what Jesus tells us. He died for us, forgiving us with his limitless grace and mercy, accepting us as we are. So why is it wrong when Spong says it? God created us in his own image, so there must be at least *some* inherent good within each of us.
@stjimmy3592 Opposite...If we're fine just the way we are than there was no point to the atonement of Christ! The atonement was the Father's wrath against the Son instead of the Father's wrath against His people. If we're fine how we are in our sin than we wouldn't NEED grace and mercy. Within me dwells no good thing Romans 7:18, so there isn't any internal good. Image of God is in reference to our intelligence, and how we create etc. Humans aren't holy so that point is a stretch
@blakodeel We are fine the way we are *because* of the atonement of Christ. Even if the image of God is in reference to our intelligence and how we create, that still means that there is an image, a monument, a reference point, a symbol in us that reminds people that we are from God, and that we are *of* God. "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death" Romans 8:2
@blakodeel 2) "For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38-39 Because of Christ, we are forever bonded with him and God through his love. We are still sinners but we are forgiven, redeemed, accepted and loved, and we cannot be taken away from this love.
@blakodeel One more thing: Spong doesn't preach the gospel? The Gospel is the Good News. The Good News that Christ gave us wasn't that we are all sinners and doomed unless we repent, the "Good News" was that we were loved and forgiven and redeemed by him in his death. Duh. Otherwise it wouldn't have been very good news.
“The Idea that the Truth of God can be bound in any human system by any human creed by any human book is almost beyond imagination for me. I mean, God is not a Christian, God is not a Jew or a Muslim or a Hindu or Buddist. All of those are human systems, which human beings have created to try to help us walk into the mystery of God. I honor my tradition, I walk through my tradition, but I don’t believe my tradition defines God. I think it only points me to God. “
I've been waiting for a pastor like this my entire life, as I've been feeling this way for as long as I can remember. And after years of sifting through different churches and different denominations, my only memories were the cold and judging looks, being snubbed, being yelled at for not bringing my Bible, my mom being kicked out of her Bible study group for lack of attendance (Crohn's kept her in and out of the hospital), and being shunned because I had a black friend. I just ordered his book.
This man is an eye-opener and a treasure. I have heard him speak at St Peter's in Morristown, NJ, now and then, and he always challenges you to think.
You`re obviously not a Christian so your opinion isn`t one that bothers me either way. But Christians Believe Jesus is God and second personage of the God head
@FeignofCordor I am a Christian, yet not a traditional one. I am quite certain that three of the Gospel writers and St Paul did not believe in the divinity of Christ. It would have been heretical. Not all Christians have ever agreed on the nature of Christ from the start. By the way, what is a personage? The Trinity is an incorporation of pagan belief. "Hear O Israel..."
There's no shortage of people who reject the most fundamental affirmations of the Christian faith and yet insist on being called Christians. You can believe what you like and even call yourself a Christian as I'm sure you along with many who should not will continue to do. No one is going to stop you. But you need to recognize that being loving also means being truthful. And misrepresentation of the Christian faith by you or Spong is neither.
@Keruaran In the words of Pontius Pilate, "Quid est veritas?" What is truth? Your truth is not the same one that Paul or Peter taught. By looking at your page, I can see that you are of Protestant persuasion. The early Church was not Protestant and that Church does not look like most modern Protestant churches. Have you ever read the Didache?
The Deity of Christ is a doctrine at the heart of the Christian faith & is affirmed by Paul & Peter (Phil 2:5–8 , Col 2:9, Titus 2:13, 2 Pet 1:1). I take their words to heart as holy scripture as I do the words of the Lord Jesus Christ who said, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me" (John 14:6) and "I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice" (John 8:37).
As I understand it, Spong thinks there's some mystical force out there that is the source of love and life, and we worship it by loving and making the most of life. I think that's probably more New Age than Christian though. Or if he just means it metaphorically, like he's saying these are the things he values most, then he's basically a humanist. Either way I think he's an OK guy, but I can see why he irritates some people
I can't disagree that we should try to be loving and respectful of each other and to live our lives as fully as possible, but I don;t see why we have to call that "God". It's no different to what a secular humanist believes.
Nice guy, but utterly lost. Anyone can (and does) preach 'love', without defining it. This is why we seek to be 'correct' - because if we don't understand love, we mistake any broken emotion for it. I am a Christian and proud of it, and I love this man, but I wish he had a more measured approach.
@Fibreglassfaith Perhaps the point is that love doesn't need a definition? Why play games with words like that? Jesus' parables show what love looks like without needing to define it.
@Magnulus76 I appreciate your thoughtfulness, I hear what you are saying - sure, JC didn't explain the parables all the time, but JC also accepted that his 'non-explanation' would mean some people would choose not to follow him; this is just a reality. Bp J Spong is not only a disciple, but a man who has made vows as a Deacon, Priest and Bishop to God and the people honour both God and the people, but I don't think he does this by leaving an open door on what love and what the nature of God is.
How is it that somebody gets to nitpick these postings? Listen Chip, your Christian angst ain't my problem. Jews got their own problems and they don't include living your vision of Jesus. Why did I butt in then? Christianity is a religion of proselytizers. You open the door by default. Regardless, thinking has to start somewhere even if it is at the simplest level. So carry on.
Why is Spong wearing vestments? How is he going beyond Theism? Does he not derive authority from the Church by adhering to the strange get up of a "Holy man"?
See how this is? You folks say you want to think but what you want is some feel good mouthpiece like Spong to come along and make it easy for you. You can't save your religion. Maybe you could adhere to a new religion called Spongism, with strictures like: be all that you can be, you have to live love, live God, you have to adhere to feel good bullshit that means nothing and so is not accountable. If you grew up brain dead it's probably too late now.
What about abortion Spong? What about capital punishment? What about any tough questions at all? How do we negotiate the soul bending compromises of daily life? How do all these vague, feel good aphorisms; how do we hold onto that? How does what your saying not become a new religion. Because that's how minds work. Be all that you can be? Just do it? WTF?
I asked my witness one time why, if God intervenes in the affairs of men, why did my people burn. And if you have your own reference point then more power to you. I use the Holocaust because it is a huge and unanswerable contradiction towards any concept of God. Anyway he told me it was because the Jews killed Jesus. It was a thoughtless and offensive answer but I didn't take personal offense. But I got no time for non thinkers. I have no time for shallow Christian angst.
Actually God came to me at the nadir of my despair and degradation and he came to me as Jesus through a committed born again Christian. This was in 1993. I have had years to struggle with the contradictions of Christianity and what was more intense was the feeling that I was betraying my own people because Christianity was the fertile ground and seeds of the Holocaust. I had an UN parked brain right out of the gate.
Christianity seems like the deal of a lifetime, except for one thing; it doesn't work. You still have to negotiate the corruption of having a body to protect and having to ameliorate self interest as balanced against altruism. That's why Judaic law is not just some tome of stale, rigid laws to be obeyed but rather guidelines for living, for engaging with other humans and all living things in an ethical manner.
If you want to be a thinking Christian Mr Chipman, then you should just convert to Judaism. I'm serious. Because I'm a Jew who grew up without any strictures of all, tried Buddhism, was proselytized by a Christian and finally saw the nuance and utility of my birthright. I must remind you that Jesus was a practicing Jew, and not the anti Jew promulgated by the puerile and opportunistic builders of the first church. Jesus' ideas were a revolutionary approach to the living laws of Judaism.
I'm, I'm ...all pumped up! I'm gonna go pick up! Oh by the way. What exactly does this feel good shit mean? Be all that you can be? This guy did the est training? Is that it?
@MrBodypro8 Yes, for people who want to be Christians but don't want to park their brain at the church door, the sorts of things he says are a big deal.
You don't believe in god, just purple shirts and good pensions and benefits. Typical mainline Protestant. No wonder religion is shrinking away faster than a pizza in front of Michael Moore.
Can you see ? Can you all you guys and girls see? This men preaching love and respect without hatred and being aggressive. Without believing in punishment. No negative things. Just positive and it gives us hope . This guy is a good guy.
God i am agnostic if you really exists give this guy a thumbs up and support to finish what he has started. amen
Romans 16:17 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.
James puts things even more clearly when he say, show me your faith and I will show you my good deeds. What does James say here? Good works without faith has substance, but faith without good works has none.
The bible also teaches us that all men will be judged on their own merits. Merit means spiritual reward for good work. Merit does not mean reward for believing in a given religion.
Jesus own disciples see's a man helping another man, and the disciples scare him away because he was not one of them. Jesus says, they are not against us are they, they are doing exactly as I expect, so if they are not against they are for us.
You might remember the parable of the Good Samaitan. What is interesting about this parable is Jesus chooses four charactors. The Jew who is beaten, then the two most deeply religious people he can think of, a Levite and a priest. But the man who helps out is a Samaritan, people of mixed religion, race, and culture. So what is important here? Following correct doctrines, theologies? No. Its loving one another as yourself.
Note the Muslim man is judged not by who he is, but by what he is? How convenient. The Christian man is however judged ultimately by his actions, for it is his actions that ultimately suggests whether he is a Christian or not. Affectively we have judged each mans heart by what the religion they follow.
A Muslim straps a bomb to his waist and it blows killing himself and 100 others. If you consider yourself a Christian, answer this. Was he a Christian? I expect the answer will be, "of course not, he was a Muslim".
A Christian does the same thing and kills himself and 100 others. If you consider youself a Christian, was he a Christian? I expect you will say, "no, he might have called himself a Christian, but he wasn't".
A Christian man does exactly the same thing, and rescues all ten people. Is he a Christian, and if so, why? I expect most Christians will say, "yes". Why? Because that is what Jesus commanded us to do, and we already know he is a Christian.
Here is an example of what I mean.A Muslim man see's a house on fire. He knows there are people in the house and goes inside, putting his own life at risk. He rescues all ten people. If you consider yourself a Christian, ask yourself this. Was the Muslim man a Christian? I expect the answer to that will probably be "no, of course not, he was a Muslim".
In essense, here is what Spong teaches, in case you didn't know.
Jesus was not about religion. He didn't care if you were Muslim, Hindi or Athiest. As long as your intention was to do right by you fellow man, and that you understood you would stuff up occasionally on the way to achieving that, and that you forgave others in the same way you would expect others to forgive you, you were a follower of Jesus. Only when you make Christianity as a religion do you see any differently.
There was no purpose. He just made himself unpopular with the Romans or the Jewish priests or both and ended up getting crucified like thousands of other people did back then
What Spong teaches in this little vid is exactly what the bible is about. The church has made it into something very different, a "believe it or else" mentality. All Spong is doing is putting things straight, and telling the message simply. Some people hate that, but most normal people appreciate the simplicity of what he says.
i don't like this. not because i disagree, i fulyl agree. why does this viewpoint, which makes perfect sense and is completely desirable, have to be such a revelation? why can't it just be common sense, like it should be? and why the unbelievable devotion to these institutions? even mr smarty-pants in this video. he seems to reject the principles of his own institution, but i bet he won't abandon it. why? is the food that good? most churches i go to the food is awful. makes me want to gag ...
Nothing give me greater pleasure than seeing people abandon religion altogether. The mainline is shrinking away faster than a pizza in front of Michael Moore.
If this idiot doesn't believe in clerical authority, why does he wear that stupid shirt? Isn't purple the color of the Roman emperors? Seriously, whenever I see a church close, I am happy.
I like people like mr Spong who break the old manmade rules and tells the truth of the Word. More people need to stand up with a new direction. Jesus did it too. Millions of christians are mislead and following man's word. Make them search the real truth and not follow what everyone claims to be truth but is not literally from the bible. Listen to Jesus word not that of confusing man. God bless you!
We are alive because of that. He always told He was going to die or be persecuted. But where in the bible does Jesus say he is going to die for our sins? Take the truth from the Messiah directly not from man. Jesus was killed by the Romans because the high priests envied him too much. I found out the truth also, too late, but luckily. I say this out of concern for the truth and my fellow believers. I don't want to be called an occultist for claiming this. I just seek the truth.
@royalsteven Jesus said He was going to die multiple times to his disciples. Although they didn't understand until the ressurection of Christ. John 8;21, Luke 24:44-47, John 2:19-22, Matthew 16:21-23,
Yes He did. But He did not say for our sins! After His resurrection neither. He only told to go and spread the good word. He was killed by hatefull Romans.
exist within love. What a horrible thought also that a loving Father would willingly kill/sacrfice His own son. Why else did Jesus say Father forgive them for they not know what they do? If it was God's plan? Blood, suffering and cross symbol of torture/crucifixtion is what christianity seems to be based on and christians put too much empathize on this negative stuff wich is from evil. The most important thing must be Jesus resurrection! He showed us that He conquered death!
'God give His only Son... This is a twisted idea of man on the Word like many other words they twisted with their own interpretation. The verse just means God gave His Son to this world. Send His son to earth to spread the good word! Jesus saved sinners and cleared them from sin since he was on earth, much earlier already than his death. We are forgiven without Him have to die and shed blood for us by his mercy, love and forgiveness. God is love only. Judgment, murder and negative can not
You can interpret any verse different. What this was talking about was about ceremonial offering calvs not Jesus. He is not mentioned. An all loving God detests any murder or offering. Mostly His own child. It is not hard to imagine. Like also said in Jesaja: The multitude of your sacrifices what are they to me?” says the Lord "I have more than enough of burnt offerings, of rams and the fat of fattened animals; I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
When you come to appear before me, who has asked this of you, this trampling of my courts? Stop bringing meaningless offerings! Your incense is detestable to me. New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations. I cannot bear your worthless assemblies. Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals I hate with all my being. They have become a burden to me; I am weary of bearing them. When you spread out your hands in prayer, I hide my eyes from you; even when you offer many prayers,
@royalsteven Amen. I agree with you. I have a wuestion for you though. Do you comprehend what you are reading? Perhap you haven't taken the context of the text into consideration. Jesaja the prophet spoke on behalf of God that his people were bringing vain offerings, and sacrifices which were worthless. Why were they worthless? Becuase instead of true piety they instead brought offerings in their vain attempt to manipulate God. They were hypocrites! God was tired of this.
@royalsteven Please read all of Hebrews 9. You will see the difference of the offering that the people of Israel offered with that of what Jesus offered. Also, the whole council of Gods word testifies that Jesus would die for our sins. Jesaja himself prophesied this in Jesaja 53. May Gods spirit lead you to understanding, as he has done with me. God Bless You.
Well that is good brother. We might have our own views on some things. I know God does not judge us for it but accepts us in His love. The truth of the matter though, and most important thing is that we both believe in Jesus Christ as our savior, the truth, the way, the life and the only way to God and to heaven.
@Dystopiologist So according to you just because a person isn't religious this means they don't have an objective standard?
"and neither do many Eastern belief systems."
So considering that you believe Eastern belief systems don't have a moral objective standard does this include the Eastern Orthodox Christian faith also?
"What is right" is God's Law, and is evident, even to the simple minded, "The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple."
If all roads lead to the same place, then God terribly miscalculated. Jesus need not have died on the cross.
@GeneralHanSolo, Thanking God through Jesus Christ our Lord. [[As in going through]] Jesus for salvation in God. Is Paul's lack of accepting *Jewish idealogy of God being God and Savior, with distiction of Jesus as seen in Luke 1;46.
No, not really. It is through the Jewish God and the Torah, for which we run towards Jesus Christ, because Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of that Torah and Law.
Paul himself says this (also in the very verse that you paraphrase from) in Galatians 2:21 and Hebrews 8:1-13. That was the whole point of Yahweh's promise (as quoted in that Hebrews passage) in Jeremiah 31:31-34.
You, as well as Spong, need to learn your bible more.
@GeneralHanSolo, Fulfillment of what? Paul died in 65 AD there was neither a full agreement regarding how this "word of mouth" messiah should be agreed upon yet. Christ in Paul's message represented his a political disagreement with Pharisaic Judeans who were the leading political party. I think you need to re read the Gospels and Epistles during its time, and not as truth through abstract Greek thought. I ask again explain Luke 1;46? This is Elizabeth speaking, It is called Logoism.
@GeneralHanSolo, LORD in the Jewish Bible is YHWH not lord. Christians cannot get around understanding abstract idioms in the Gospels. The Gospel of Luke is based off Josephus directed toward John the Baptist being the foretold messiah of Mal 3.
Mary is nothing but Elizabeth explained in full understanding. So what are you trying to get at? Lke 1 is concrete. Mary is abstract. The two together is a message that John the Baptist is the messiah. Not a Torah rejecting Christian tradition.
@fishhead06 John Shelby has realized just as Bart Ehrman did that Jesus Christ is a "gentile" failure and prototype of John the Baptist through word of mouth biasm. Consider reading Matthew 28:11-15. The Body that was stolen is the real messiah from Malachi 3. Its Josephus' understanding of "John the Baptist" in Antiquities as being the messiah. It is he who fulfills Malachi 3. The gentiles didn't believe he was the messiah. So he was killed during 65 AD, fulfilling Isaiah 53;10.
@Dystopiologist Who ever said that the Bible couldn't be read and accepted as religious literature? The whole idea that the Bible is the word of God is nonsense. Luke 1 proves that ancient Judea belief was spread from word of mouth tradition. During the 1st century anyone could have added to the story and that is exactly what the Graeco Romans did. They added to the story and got a Jesus of Christianity.
@brother234 didnt jesus love all man? the beggars and sinners alike. he loved a prostitute, or something. when people preach to me, are they like hyprocrites standing on the street corner? please brother234 stop being such a damn hyprocrite. maybe you are the one who needs christs love.
@brother234 you're using circular logic. If I would ask you how you know Jesus is Christ you'd probably tell me "its written in the bible". then i would ask how do you know the bible is true? youll tell me that "the bible says its true". do you see how this arguement will not go anywhere? please stop trying to convert people.
A wolf here in Sheeps clothing: 'Wander off little sheep into the unknown: Go into the powerless world of human love with Spongs' help. Yes, little gullible ones who never read the bible and have not the discernment to understand its simple truths, listen to me, a Spong, for i tell you to wander off from the Christian path' - No - The bible showed the world the necessity for holy God to offer to unholy mankind the spirit of life, by which the works of heaven can be attained. Spong is a wolf.
Suppose for a moment we are all perfect, suppose we are indeed babes upon the belly of Buddah, suppose you are perfect already. suppose suppose, dream dream, like john lennon, "i'm not the only one". Yeah right, Blind Spong realizes not what the great men of this nation know and protected us against: the wickedness of men who would subjugate you while you pretend we are good when we are not. Good luck people, but the Bible shows and warns a million times over: God is holy and we are not.
@85226 Foolishness - he brings a way into heaven around Christ's sacrifice. He suggests Christ's sacrifice as unnecessary. But Christ came only after Biblical history showed the world absolute failure to purify by the laws of ones heart. Always corruption no matter how pure the spong's of old would say you could become. His is a dead religion, one where works moves you forward without the spirit of God. Therefore he is a wolf in sheeps clothing who accepts what Christ does not.
"The only way to serve the Lord is by loving, not by being right". Makes so much sense. There would be more Christians today if more Christian Denominations taught this way.
@tophu1021 The only way Christ showed us to love God and man, was in spirit of love which is sourced from God himself. BUT - Christ also showed that to love in this manner was impossible without forgiveness first and this was impossible without sacrifice unto a holy God who would not help us without payment for sin. God is holy man is corrupted. Therefore, even the good we do, though good to do, won't get us into heaven, nor will it be perfect without God's spirit of true love.
ok as an atheist, i would much rather live in a world full of Spongs than a world full of TheAmazingAtheists (though i do find some of TAA's videos funny)
@procritic09 Spong's world doesn't exist. For it denies the character of God and his Son's sacrifice for the world. Therefore, God will not honor the attempt to circumvent his precious blood sacrifice. The Bible is full of stories of those who tried, even his own people, yet miserably all fell away and were found wanting. (Jesus wept). Christ's love comes by accepting God's highest love, and then he sends a spirit of love to you. With this you can begin to love with sustaining power.
@brother234 I don't believe that god of christ exists, so all of what you said there is meaningless to me. And don't try and convert me, i've committed the unforgivable sin so people will stop trying.
I am glad that I am from the Episcopal tradition. The fact that souls like Bishop Spong exist makes me happy. Jesus really does not advocate God being an oppressive, violent jerk. About Spong being apostate: Jesus was a raving apostate heretic for a Jew. Should it be a surprise that the followers of Jesus are often apostate now as he was then?
@hereticmax1 Jesus was not apostate to the Jews at all: He was the fulfillment of the prophecies written about him, as well, he had to follow their laws perfectly. He did, though he healed on the Sabbath, he healed because the Jewish traditions were not based in the truth of the prophets, rather these restrictions were of the type Spong claims to attack, except Spong goes one step further and denies the necessity for Christ's sacrifice for to have the spirit of God in your heart.
I am glad that I am from the Episcopal tradition. The fact that souls like Bishop Spong exist makes me happy. Jesus really does not advocate God being an oppressive, violent jerk.
@BumJungle Of course he does: for he is of the world as you are as well. The things of God are spiritually discerned and hidden from the ears of this world. Spong is not a Christian nor does he know Christ's teachings, or he is a lier. For Christ teaches us that the power of God will come only to those who test like a scientist, his experiment for recieving life unto your heart. Accept the fact that you need God's spirit of love, accept his sacrifice of Jesus (God), and he will visit you.
@brother234 Jesus taught me nothing. I've never met him or read anything he wrote. Not that I believe anything I read in an ancient book of dubious origins to be fact, unlike Christians. All I've seen is things Christians claim (no evidence) are his words written by an unknown author hundreds of years after his death.
God I can consider, Jesus being God is rubbish and fails the logic test. So as for suggesting Spong may be a liar, not likely. As you said, Spong isn't Christian.
@manutdfan4321 - that is the fun with theistic theology - it is all faith-based belief - it is not an issue of fact, necessarily. Therefore, one can still be "liberal" and still be a "good Christian", just as much as one can be an "ultra-conservative" and still be a "good Christian".
@Atatakaidan No, you cannot be good as there is only one Good, says Christ. Therefore, the fact is, that fact i present to you here needs to be tested by you - first recieve his sacrifice and put your trust into God that he will show you how to love better by his spirit. He will also guide you into truth. You will grow in discernment and be filled with power from on high. That kind of love is different and potent. The kind of love spong puts forward is common and without power.
@brother234 - I disagree - but that is your choice - because YOUR belief thinks that nobody is good is not my problem - I see the overwhelming universe as "good" and "perfect" - but you choose to see it as "evil" - I see that as an insult to the creator's own creation.
Spong believes in the jew god Jahweh, and in an after-life just for kikes.
Spong believes in Hell, because it's written in his talmud, but he thinks only non-jews will go there.
Spong hates christians and the christian God of Goodness, because it defines evil as something bad, and something you will go to hell for. Spong hates this idea because his people are Satan Worshippers, and responcible for infinite evil.
folks, this is what we call heresy. what god, and i use this term loosely, is he preaching? the Force of Lucas' imagination? because sure as heck it's not the God of the Bible.
Traitors, heady, high-minded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
secondthes 19 hours ago
People don't understand Spong because it takes so long to understand what you already do. The idea that you might have to start from scratch and understand things differently is simply a too big a task, so you stick with what you know without fully questioning what you know. The chances are, what you know now came from an era of great questioning. The idea that we should continue to question does not register with most people.
TheMarathonomahos 1 week ago
This guy is a joke!. His "Christianity" is NOTHING more than Pantheistic gibberish!.
morrisondan 1 month ago
@morrisondan
Pantheistic gibberish that is WAY more moral than orthodox Christianity.
SirKickz 2 weeks ago
@SirKickz Let me guess, your a homosexual?
morrisondan 2 weeks ago
@SirKickz Pantheistic gibberish wasn't beat, and hung bloody &naked upon a cross!.
I will stick with Jesus Christ, you can keep "bishop" Spong!.
morrisondan 2 weeks ago
@morrisondan
Why would it matter at all if I'm gay? If it does, it makes you a completely bigoted ass. Why does it matter who was hung naked and bloody to a cross? Love is love and morality is morality, and this guy has more love and morality in his pinky finger than the entire Old Testament.
SirKickz 2 weeks ago
@morrisondan You don't need to choose. Bishop Spong sticks with Jesus as well.
me4901 1 week ago
@me4901 Not the one of the New Testament. You want quotes from this particular video? Why don't you read "Christianity Must Change or Die", "Living in Sin", "Rescuing the Bible From Fundamentalism", and every other book he has written. I have read EVERYONE OF THEM!. HE DOESN'T ACCEPT THE DIVINITY OF JESUS CHRIST, HIS BODILY RESURRECTION, ETC, ETC, ETC. THAT IS NOT THE JESUS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT OR THE HISTORIC CHRISTIAN CHURCH!.
morrisondan 1 week ago
@morrisondan He speaks on one God, not many, so it can't be pantheistic. He speaks of God being the source of all life and being the basis for love, which sounds like God as described by Jesus. Exactly what do you disagree with can you quote something from this video you disagree with and say why it's not Christian ?
me4901 1 week ago
@me4901 HIS ONE GOD, ISN'T PERSONAL, DIDN'T COME TO EARTH TO SAVE PEOPLE, DID NOT RAISE FROM THE DEAD, JESUS CHRIST ISN'T HIS SON, & on & ON & ON!. Spong's "god" isn't the God of the Old & New Testament. Also, "he speaks on one God, not many, so it can't be pantheistic".....PANTHEISM IS NOT POLYTHEISM!. YOU HAVE YOUR TERMS MIXED UP HERE!. POLY=MANY, PAN= "God" IS NATURE & NATURE IS GOD OR IN GOD, no distintiction between creator & creation!. THAT IS PANTHEISM!
morrisondan 1 week ago
@morrisondan Yeah, so what are you going to do about it, write in all caps on his youtube videos explaining how his belief system is different to yours? That's going to be very effective.
EdsEnemy 1 week ago
@EdsEnemy I will do the same thing you did just now, by posting YOUR OPINION OF MY WORDS!. I will post MY OPINION of SPONG'S WORDS!. It's a free country & we all have the right to express ourselfs!. If you don't agree with me, that's OK!. Wouldn't the world be a boring & miserable place if we all agreed with one another? Now, go play with yourself & leave me alone, please!.
morrisondan 1 week ago
This guy is a jack ass. I'm not a christian but give me an honest christian any day over this charlatan who just rewrites history to suit his own warm fuzzy glow of a worldview. He hadn't even heard of a very prominent figure from his own herigate (Bishop Ryle). Complete imbecile, pompous windbag and self-publicist who has been to see the stage play of his own life story multiple times, which just about says it all.
whyteay 1 month ago
Beautiful !!!! The world needs more of this message.
lgrissim1 1 month ago
he is wise...
hwpienaar 1 month ago
Heretic, heretic, heretic, heretic, heretic sing it with me! Sin and depravity is not something to offer... We have no good within "our own being," Romans 7:18. Ever wonder why atheists love him? It's because he doesn't preach the Bible, he doesn't preach the gospel, he doesn't preach about sin but rather he glories in it! He's the preacher for the world and of the world. He speaks love but he hates people when he says, you are fine just the way you are. He's a charlatan people.
blakodeel 1 month ago
@blakodeel No, he's someone who has lived within all the lies of religion, seen the light and is trying to get someting actually good out of it instead of the normal hate fill garbage it normally spews. I'm not trying to pick on christianity alone, I mean all religion, they are all the same.
Good people will do good things regardless but it takes religion to make good people do horrible things.
Jason442200 1 month ago
@Jason442200 So you would prefer someone to continue genuinely not believing in orthodoxy yet propping himself up as a teacher of a faith he doesn't submit to? There's no virtue in that. And while generally accusing religion of having people do bad things I could just as easily say Stalin's, Hitler's and Pol Pot's atheism could be behind their evil, but I won't because that's just as unfair as lumping religion to be the evil of the world
blakodeel 1 month ago
@blakodeel You do realize Hitler was a catholic carrying out "god's" duty right? Besides, as I said in the quote, bad people will do bad things, like Pol Pot and how did he get good people to do his bidding? Prop himself up as a god. But as far as this guy goes, he's following faith in a more buddhist way, which I have no problem with, orthodoxy is the main problem with religion anyway. Why stick to a hard core line when nothing about the idea can be proven past personal feelings?
Jason442200 1 month ago
@Jason442200 That's why he never read the Bible and killed people, he was darwinian in his mindset. the standard of Christianity is scripture, and feelings don't matter when it says otherwise
blakodeel 1 month ago
@blakodeel Ya, but he claimed to be doing god's work, thats my point. How can I stand there and say one mad man is wrong when there are countless other in a book that claim to be right. How do you know god wasn't talking to and guiding him? Men in the bible supposedly had god tell them to do countless horrible things, so why should hitler be any different? Scripture has no bearing on life, it's just an excuse
Jason442200 1 month ago
@blakodeel "you are fine just the way you are" is exactly what Jesus tells us. He died for us, forgiving us with his limitless grace and mercy, accepting us as we are. So why is it wrong when Spong says it? God created us in his own image, so there must be at least *some* inherent good within each of us.
stjimmy3592 1 month ago
@stjimmy3592 Opposite...If we're fine just the way we are than there was no point to the atonement of Christ! The atonement was the Father's wrath against the Son instead of the Father's wrath against His people. If we're fine how we are in our sin than we wouldn't NEED grace and mercy. Within me dwells no good thing Romans 7:18, so there isn't any internal good. Image of God is in reference to our intelligence, and how we create etc. Humans aren't holy so that point is a stretch
blakodeel 1 month ago
@blakodeel We are fine the way we are *because* of the atonement of Christ. Even if the image of God is in reference to our intelligence and how we create, that still means that there is an image, a monument, a reference point, a symbol in us that reminds people that we are from God, and that we are *of* God. "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death" Romans 8:2
stjimmy3592 1 month ago
@blakodeel 2) "For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38-39 Because of Christ, we are forever bonded with him and God through his love. We are still sinners but we are forgiven, redeemed, accepted and loved, and we cannot be taken away from this love.
stjimmy3592 1 month ago
@blakodeel One more thing: Spong doesn't preach the gospel? The Gospel is the Good News. The Good News that Christ gave us wasn't that we are all sinners and doomed unless we repent, the "Good News" was that we were loved and forgiven and redeemed by him in his death. Duh. Otherwise it wouldn't have been very good news.
stjimmy3592 1 month ago
I am atheist and I love this man!
saw1261 1 month ago
What a great man for speaking the truth ...
love this
catlinmorgan 1 month ago
This should have several million views. Thank you Bishop for articulating in as best as words can articulate some basic truths.
MusicaAngela 1 month ago
“The Idea that the Truth of God can be bound in any human system by any human creed by any human book is almost beyond imagination for me. I mean, God is not a Christian, God is not a Jew or a Muslim or a Hindu or Buddist. All of those are human systems, which human beings have created to try to help us walk into the mystery of God. I honor my tradition, I walk through my tradition, but I don’t believe my tradition defines God. I think it only points me to God. “
sockseatme 1 month ago
I've been waiting for a pastor like this my entire life, as I've been feeling this way for as long as I can remember. And after years of sifting through different churches and different denominations, my only memories were the cold and judging looks, being snubbed, being yelled at for not bringing my Bible, my mom being kicked out of her Bible study group for lack of attendance (Crohn's kept her in and out of the hospital), and being shunned because I had a black friend. I just ordered his book.
chaddarooch 1 month ago 2
@chaddarooch Jesus Christ is even better!.
morrisondan 1 week ago
"You love because love is what you have to do ... You love wastefully." -Spong
tlduker 3 months ago
This man is an eye-opener and a treasure. I have heard him speak at St Peter's in Morristown, NJ, now and then, and he always challenges you to think.
Mededguy 3 months ago
@Mededguy Just like the serpent. Sorry, I know he sounds good and right, I felt the same way before.
encii79 2 months ago
God is Love and yes he is within us. That is Biblical but I have probelm with the whole external force thing.
deancrawford06 3 months ago
this is beautiful
MoDeeSeventyThree 4 months ago
Spong is a Heretic he denies Christ rose from the grave. Do not be taken in by this false teacher
FeignofCordor 4 months ago
@FeignofCordor Christ rose from the grave? People don't wake up from death.
tlduker 3 months ago
@tlduker
Your quite right people don`t
FeignofCordor 3 months ago
@FeignofCordor And Jesus, being a person, quite naturally would not awaken from death.
tlduker 3 months ago
@tlduker
You`re obviously not a Christian so your opinion isn`t one that bothers me either way. But Christians Believe Jesus is God and second personage of the God head
FeignofCordor 3 months ago
@FeignofCordor I am a Christian, yet not a traditional one. I am quite certain that three of the Gospel writers and St Paul did not believe in the divinity of Christ. It would have been heretical. Not all Christians have ever agreed on the nature of Christ from the start. By the way, what is a personage? The Trinity is an incorporation of pagan belief. "Hear O Israel..."
tlduker 3 months ago
@tlduker
There's no shortage of people who reject the most fundamental affirmations of the Christian faith and yet insist on being called Christians. You can believe what you like and even call yourself a Christian as I'm sure you along with many who should not will continue to do. No one is going to stop you. But you need to recognize that being loving also means being truthful. And misrepresentation of the Christian faith by you or Spong is neither.
Keruaran 2 months ago
@Keruaran In the words of Pontius Pilate, "Quid est veritas?" What is truth? Your truth is not the same one that Paul or Peter taught. By looking at your page, I can see that you are of Protestant persuasion. The early Church was not Protestant and that Church does not look like most modern Protestant churches. Have you ever read the Didache?
tlduker 2 months ago
@tlduker
The Deity of Christ is a doctrine at the heart of the Christian faith & is affirmed by Paul & Peter (Phil 2:5–8 , Col 2:9, Titus 2:13, 2 Pet 1:1). I take their words to heart as holy scripture as I do the words of the Lord Jesus Christ who said, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me" (John 14:6) and "I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice" (John 8:37).
Keruaran 2 months ago
Oh I just felt so warm listening to him. Just like grandpa.
Moshugaani 4 months ago
As I understand it, Spong thinks there's some mystical force out there that is the source of love and life, and we worship it by loving and making the most of life. I think that's probably more New Age than Christian though. Or if he just means it metaphorically, like he's saying these are the things he values most, then he's basically a humanist. Either way I think he's an OK guy, but I can see why he irritates some people
oliveranthonyrowland 4 months ago
I can't disagree that we should try to be loving and respectful of each other and to live our lives as fully as possible, but I don;t see why we have to call that "God". It's no different to what a secular humanist believes.
oliveranthonyrowland 4 months ago
Nice guy, but utterly lost. Anyone can (and does) preach 'love', without defining it. This is why we seek to be 'correct' - because if we don't understand love, we mistake any broken emotion for it. I am a Christian and proud of it, and I love this man, but I wish he had a more measured approach.
Fibreglassfaith 5 months ago 2
@Fibreglassfaith Perhaps the point is that love doesn't need a definition? Why play games with words like that? Jesus' parables show what love looks like without needing to define it.
Magnulus76 4 months ago
@Magnulus76 I appreciate your thoughtfulness, I hear what you are saying - sure, JC didn't explain the parables all the time, but JC also accepted that his 'non-explanation' would mean some people would choose not to follow him; this is just a reality. Bp J Spong is not only a disciple, but a man who has made vows as a Deacon, Priest and Bishop to God and the people honour both God and the people, but I don't think he does this by leaving an open door on what love and what the nature of God is.
Fibreglassfaith 4 months ago
Unfortunately, this is not Christianity, but a philosophy for fools who have no clarity or precision of thought.
RagnarokRazgriz 5 months ago
How is it that somebody gets to nitpick these postings? Listen Chip, your Christian angst ain't my problem. Jews got their own problems and they don't include living your vision of Jesus. Why did I butt in then? Christianity is a religion of proselytizers. You open the door by default. Regardless, thinking has to start somewhere even if it is at the simplest level. So carry on.
MrBodypro8 5 months ago
Why is Spong wearing vestments? How is he going beyond Theism? Does he not derive authority from the Church by adhering to the strange get up of a "Holy man"?
MrBodypro8 5 months ago
See how this is? You folks say you want to think but what you want is some feel good mouthpiece like Spong to come along and make it easy for you. You can't save your religion. Maybe you could adhere to a new religion called Spongism, with strictures like: be all that you can be, you have to live love, live God, you have to adhere to feel good bullshit that means nothing and so is not accountable. If you grew up brain dead it's probably too late now.
MrBodypro8 5 months ago
What about abortion Spong? What about capital punishment? What about any tough questions at all? How do we negotiate the soul bending compromises of daily life? How do all these vague, feel good aphorisms; how do we hold onto that? How does what your saying not become a new religion. Because that's how minds work. Be all that you can be? Just do it? WTF?
MrBodypro8 5 months ago
I asked my witness one time why, if God intervenes in the affairs of men, why did my people burn. And if you have your own reference point then more power to you. I use the Holocaust because it is a huge and unanswerable contradiction towards any concept of God. Anyway he told me it was because the Jews killed Jesus. It was a thoughtless and offensive answer but I didn't take personal offense. But I got no time for non thinkers. I have no time for shallow Christian angst.
MrBodypro8 5 months ago
Actually God came to me at the nadir of my despair and degradation and he came to me as Jesus through a committed born again Christian. This was in 1993. I have had years to struggle with the contradictions of Christianity and what was more intense was the feeling that I was betraying my own people because Christianity was the fertile ground and seeds of the Holocaust. I had an UN parked brain right out of the gate.
MrBodypro8 5 months ago
Christianity seems like the deal of a lifetime, except for one thing; it doesn't work. You still have to negotiate the corruption of having a body to protect and having to ameliorate self interest as balanced against altruism. That's why Judaic law is not just some tome of stale, rigid laws to be obeyed but rather guidelines for living, for engaging with other humans and all living things in an ethical manner.
MrBodypro8 5 months ago
Comment removed
MrBodypro8 5 months ago
@MrBodypro8, Interesting pov you have there. Not sure I agree with it, but the background to your opinion can't be faulted.
DavidChipman 5 months ago
If you want to be a thinking Christian Mr Chipman, then you should just convert to Judaism. I'm serious. Because I'm a Jew who grew up without any strictures of all, tried Buddhism, was proselytized by a Christian and finally saw the nuance and utility of my birthright. I must remind you that Jesus was a practicing Jew, and not the anti Jew promulgated by the puerile and opportunistic builders of the first church. Jesus' ideas were a revolutionary approach to the living laws of Judaism.
MrBodypro8 5 months ago
I'm, I'm ...all pumped up! I'm gonna go pick up! Oh by the way. What exactly does this feel good shit mean? Be all that you can be? This guy did the est training? Is that it?
MrBodypro8 5 months ago
Big fvcking deal.
MrBodypro8 5 months ago
@MrBodypro8 Yes, for people who want to be Christians but don't want to park their brain at the church door, the sorts of things he says are a big deal.
DavidChipman 5 months ago
Finally a western holy man that has a foundation in REASON.
TheAwakenedHeretic 5 months ago
I think this guy has it right. Every Continent has its own unique Religion. I dont think God would have confused us with so much variety in Religion.
legallyblonde53 5 months ago
You don't believe in god, just purple shirts and good pensions and benefits. Typical mainline Protestant. No wonder religion is shrinking away faster than a pizza in front of Michael Moore.
NixonisLord 6 months ago
Can you see ? Can you all you guys and girls see? This men preaching love and respect without hatred and being aggressive. Without believing in punishment. No negative things. Just positive and it gives us hope . This guy is a good guy.
God i am agnostic if you really exists give this guy a thumbs up and support to finish what he has started. amen
HUNAdamus94 7 months ago 2
@HUNAdamus94 I agree wholeheartedly. I am an atheist, but I have immense respect for John Shelby Spong.
robtul12 1 week ago
God's love: an old, clogged sink in the basement.
trilobright 8 months ago
my goodness this man can light up my spirit! i see life!
TheGuilanvi 8 months ago
Man without spirit. Who created Adam and Eve? He has no idea. Or how many Jews died during the Holocausts? I know the answers.
nijjhar1 8 months ago
This guy is a holy man...
julesthemadman 9 months ago 28
He's a nice guy. Pity all christians don't see life the same way as Rev Spong.
UrukEngineer 10 months ago 22
This has been flagged as spam show
Romans 16:17 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.
shieldsff 4 months ago
@UrukEngineer My priest used to be in his former diocese. Very good bishop.
ladylejean215 4 months ago
James puts things even more clearly when he say, show me your faith and I will show you my good deeds. What does James say here? Good works without faith has substance, but faith without good works has none.
trixxxy100 10 months ago
The bible also teaches us that all men will be judged on their own merits. Merit means spiritual reward for good work. Merit does not mean reward for believing in a given religion.
trixxxy100 10 months ago
Jesus own disciples see's a man helping another man, and the disciples scare him away because he was not one of them. Jesus says, they are not against us are they, they are doing exactly as I expect, so if they are not against they are for us.
trixxxy100 10 months ago
@trixxxy100 can you please site this passage for me. I remember reading this but I cannot remember where.
shadowcii 8 months ago
You might remember the parable of the Good Samaitan. What is interesting about this parable is Jesus chooses four charactors. The Jew who is beaten, then the two most deeply religious people he can think of, a Levite and a priest. But the man who helps out is a Samaritan, people of mixed religion, race, and culture. So what is important here? Following correct doctrines, theologies? No. Its loving one another as yourself.
trixxxy100 10 months ago
Note the Muslim man is judged not by who he is, but by what he is? How convenient. The Christian man is however judged ultimately by his actions, for it is his actions that ultimately suggests whether he is a Christian or not. Affectively we have judged each mans heart by what the religion they follow.
trixxxy100 10 months ago
A Muslim straps a bomb to his waist and it blows killing himself and 100 others. If you consider yourself a Christian, answer this. Was he a Christian? I expect the answer will be, "of course not, he was a Muslim".
A Christian does the same thing and kills himself and 100 others. If you consider youself a Christian, was he a Christian? I expect you will say, "no, he might have called himself a Christian, but he wasn't".
trixxxy100 10 months ago
A Christian man does exactly the same thing, and rescues all ten people. Is he a Christian, and if so, why? I expect most Christians will say, "yes". Why? Because that is what Jesus commanded us to do, and we already know he is a Christian.
trixxxy100 10 months ago
Here is an example of what I mean.A Muslim man see's a house on fire. He knows there are people in the house and goes inside, putting his own life at risk. He rescues all ten people. If you consider yourself a Christian, ask yourself this. Was the Muslim man a Christian? I expect the answer to that will probably be "no, of course not, he was a Muslim".
trixxxy100 10 months ago
Love one another as I have loved you. By this all will know you as my deciples...
shadowcii 8 months ago
For those who wish to challenge what I have just said, and want biblical backing for what I have just said, I am up to the challenge.
trixxxy100 10 months ago
In essense, here is what Spong teaches, in case you didn't know.
Jesus was not about religion. He didn't care if you were Muslim, Hindi or Athiest. As long as your intention was to do right by you fellow man, and that you understood you would stuff up occasionally on the way to achieving that, and that you forgave others in the same way you would expect others to forgive you, you were a follower of Jesus. Only when you make Christianity as a religion do you see any differently.
trixxxy100 10 months ago
So what the purpose of Jesus Christ dying on the cross again, cause according to that man we're ok Jack
MusingsOfAMoron 10 months ago
@MusingsOfAMoron
There was no purpose. He just made himself unpopular with the Romans or the Jewish priests or both and ended up getting crucified like thousands of other people did back then
oliveranthonyrowland 4 months ago
@oliveranthonyrowland Wow you believe that!!! have you read a bible lately??
MusingsOfAMoron 3 months ago
What Spong teaches in this little vid is exactly what the bible is about. The church has made it into something very different, a "believe it or else" mentality. All Spong is doing is putting things straight, and telling the message simply. Some people hate that, but most normal people appreciate the simplicity of what he says.
trixxxy100 11 months ago
i don't like this. not because i disagree, i fulyl agree. why does this viewpoint, which makes perfect sense and is completely desirable, have to be such a revelation? why can't it just be common sense, like it should be? and why the unbelievable devotion to these institutions? even mr smarty-pants in this video. he seems to reject the principles of his own institution, but i bet he won't abandon it. why? is the food that good? most churches i go to the food is awful. makes me want to gag ...
twoblackeyesandabutt 11 months ago
Nothing give me greater pleasure than seeing people abandon religion altogether. The mainline is shrinking away faster than a pizza in front of Michael Moore.
If this idiot doesn't believe in clerical authority, why does he wear that stupid shirt? Isn't purple the color of the Roman emperors? Seriously, whenever I see a church close, I am happy.
NixonisLord 11 months ago
He's an example of a one step forward out of the darkness of religion
metz3962 11 months ago
@MrMonist Likewise.
Dzonrid 11 months ago
Spong is quickly becoming one of my favourite people.
Nospertelaca 1 year ago
It's possible to be sane and rational and intelligent and loving--while being a devout Christian, thank God.
zaynzaynzayn 1 year ago
@zaynzaynzayn
And thank Spong. He has the courage to speak his message despite the flack he takes from all sides for it.
spinhook888 11 months ago
Wonderful! Thanks for posting!
mcrd2001 1 year ago
Hes not a christian hes a real human being.
C0mm0nS3ns3 1 year ago
@C0mm0nS3ns3
That's possibly the most judgemental thing that I've ever read.
TiniestViolin 1 year ago
I like people like mr Spong who break the old manmade rules and tells the truth of the Word. More people need to stand up with a new direction. Jesus did it too. Millions of christians are mislead and following man's word. Make them search the real truth and not follow what everyone claims to be truth but is not literally from the bible. Listen to Jesus word not that of confusing man. God bless you!
royalsteven 1 year ago
We are alive because of that. He always told He was going to die or be persecuted. But where in the bible does Jesus say he is going to die for our sins? Take the truth from the Messiah directly not from man. Jesus was killed by the Romans because the high priests envied him too much. I found out the truth also, too late, but luckily. I say this out of concern for the truth and my fellow believers. I don't want to be called an occultist for claiming this. I just seek the truth.
royalsteven 1 year ago
@royalsteven Jesus said He was going to die multiple times to his disciples. Although they didn't understand until the ressurection of Christ. John 8;21, Luke 24:44-47, John 2:19-22, Matthew 16:21-23,
knownamecris 1 year ago
Yes He did. But He did not say for our sins! After His resurrection neither. He only told to go and spread the good word. He was killed by hatefull Romans.
royalsteven 1 year ago
exist within love. What a horrible thought also that a loving Father would willingly kill/sacrfice His own son. Why else did Jesus say Father forgive them for they not know what they do? If it was God's plan? Blood, suffering and cross symbol of torture/crucifixtion is what christianity seems to be based on and christians put too much empathize on this negative stuff wich is from evil. The most important thing must be Jesus resurrection! He showed us that He conquered death!
royalsteven 1 year ago
'God give His only Son... This is a twisted idea of man on the Word like many other words they twisted with their own interpretation. The verse just means God gave His Son to this world. Send His son to earth to spread the good word! Jesus saved sinners and cleared them from sin since he was on earth, much earlier already than his death. We are forgiven without Him have to die and shed blood for us by his mercy, love and forgiveness. God is love only. Judgment, murder and negative can not
royalsteven 1 year ago
@royalsteven Hebrews 9:22
"In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness."
knownamecris 1 year ago
You can interpret any verse different. What this was talking about was about ceremonial offering calvs not Jesus. He is not mentioned. An all loving God detests any murder or offering. Mostly His own child. It is not hard to imagine. Like also said in Jesaja: The multitude of your sacrifices what are they to me?” says the Lord "I have more than enough of burnt offerings, of rams and the fat of fattened animals; I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
royalsteven 1 year ago
When you come to appear before me, who has asked this of you, this trampling of my courts? Stop bringing meaningless offerings! Your incense is detestable to me. New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations. I cannot bear your worthless assemblies. Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals I hate with all my being. They have become a burden to me; I am weary of bearing them. When you spread out your hands in prayer, I hide my eyes from you; even when you offer many prayers,
royalsteven 1 year ago
I am not listening. Your hands are full of blood!" (Jesaja 1:11-15)
royalsteven 1 year ago
@royalsteven Amen. I agree with you. I have a wuestion for you though. Do you comprehend what you are reading? Perhap you haven't taken the context of the text into consideration. Jesaja the prophet spoke on behalf of God that his people were bringing vain offerings, and sacrifices which were worthless. Why were they worthless? Becuase instead of true piety they instead brought offerings in their vain attempt to manipulate God. They were hypocrites! God was tired of this.
knownamecris 1 year ago
@royalsteven Please read all of Hebrews 9. You will see the difference of the offering that the people of Israel offered with that of what Jesus offered. Also, the whole council of Gods word testifies that Jesus would die for our sins. Jesaja himself prophesied this in Jesaja 53. May Gods spirit lead you to understanding, as he has done with me. God Bless You.
knownamecris 1 year ago
Well that is good brother. We might have our own views on some things. I know God does not judge us for it but accepts us in His love. The truth of the matter though, and most important thing is that we both believe in Jesus Christ as our savior, the truth, the way, the life and the only way to God and to heaven.
royalsteven 1 year ago
somebody sit this fool down.....and take off his clerical shirt too.
EastofForever 1 year ago
Infuzor, I am with you on this one!
50Violetta 1 year ago
What a bunch of New-Age nonsense. It doesn't logically hold together.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
Do you believe in an objective moral standard?
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist Every belief has a moral standard. What sort of question is that?
beholdtheageofold 1 year ago
@beholdtheageofold Atheism doesn't have an objective standard - and neither do many Eastern belief systems.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
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@Dystopiologist So according to you just because a person isn't religious this means they don't have an objective standard?
"and neither do many Eastern belief systems."
So considering that you believe Eastern belief systems don't have a moral objective standard does this include the Eastern Orthodox Christian faith also?
beholdtheageofold 1 year ago
Spong is an honest, decent, and spiritually conscious man, and this is how he sees through manmade scripture and interprets it spiritually
Cootabux 1 year ago
Very good, Mr. Spong. You're almost there. All you need to do now is ditch that superfluous god concept.
MomoTheBellyDancer 1 year ago
@MomoTheBellyDancer
Then he can reach the sort of enlightenment previously enjoyed only by seventeen year old, acne-covered basement dwellers?
trilobright 8 months ago
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@trilobright
"Then he can reach the sort of enlightenment previously enjoyed only by seventeen year old, acne-covered basement dwellers? "
No, as long as he clings to his superstitions he will not go BEYOND that level.
MomoTheBellyDancer 8 months ago
@trilobright Buahahahahaha......
cre599 7 months ago
"What is right" is God's Law, and is evident, even to the simple minded, "The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple."
If all roads lead to the same place, then God terribly miscalculated. Jesus need not have died on the cross.
Romans 7:24-25
(24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
(25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
GeneralHanSolo 1 year ago
@GeneralHanSolo, Thanking God through Jesus Christ our Lord. [[As in going through]] Jesus for salvation in God. Is Paul's lack of accepting *Jewish idealogy of God being God and Savior, with distiction of Jesus as seen in Luke 1;46.
beholdtheageofold 1 year ago
@beholdtheageofold
No, not really. It is through the Jewish God and the Torah, for which we run towards Jesus Christ, because Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of that Torah and Law.
Paul himself says this (also in the very verse that you paraphrase from) in Galatians 2:21 and Hebrews 8:1-13. That was the whole point of Yahweh's promise (as quoted in that Hebrews passage) in Jeremiah 31:31-34.
You, as well as Spong, need to learn your bible more.
GeneralHanSolo 1 year ago
@GeneralHanSolo, Fulfillment of what? Paul died in 65 AD there was neither a full agreement regarding how this "word of mouth" messiah should be agreed upon yet. Christ in Paul's message represented his a political disagreement with Pharisaic Judeans who were the leading political party. I think you need to re read the Gospels and Epistles during its time, and not as truth through abstract Greek thought. I ask again explain Luke 1;46? This is Elizabeth speaking, It is called Logoism.
beholdtheageofold 1 year ago
@beholdtheageofold
Luke 1:46-47
(46) And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
(47) And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
What are you trying to get at? That Jesus isn't God himself?
Habakkuk 3:17-18
(18) Yet I will rejoice in the LORD, I will joy in the God of my salvation.
GeneralHanSolo 1 year ago
@GeneralHanSolo, LORD in the Jewish Bible is YHWH not lord. Christians cannot get around understanding abstract idioms in the Gospels. The Gospel of Luke is based off Josephus directed toward John the Baptist being the foretold messiah of Mal 3.
Mary is nothing but Elizabeth explained in full understanding. So what are you trying to get at? Lke 1 is concrete. Mary is abstract. The two together is a message that John the Baptist is the messiah. Not a Torah rejecting Christian tradition.
beholdtheageofold 1 year ago
Claiming to be a 'Christian' yet so far from the truth. Utter heresy.
sercowy 1 year ago
@sercowy He's just not your preferred variety of Christian. No one has exclusive access to the truth; all is interpretation.
fishhead06 1 year ago
@fishhead06 John Shelby has realized just as Bart Ehrman did that Jesus Christ is a "gentile" failure and prototype of John the Baptist through word of mouth biasm. Consider reading Matthew 28:11-15. The Body that was stolen is the real messiah from Malachi 3. Its Josephus' understanding of "John the Baptist" in Antiquities as being the messiah. It is he who fulfills Malachi 3. The gentiles didn't believe he was the messiah. So he was killed during 65 AD, fulfilling Isaiah 53;10.
beholdtheageofold 1 year ago
@beholdtheageofold
You obviously don't consider the Bible "infallible", do you.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist Who ever said that the Bible couldn't be read and accepted as religious literature? The whole idea that the Bible is the word of God is nonsense. Luke 1 proves that ancient Judea belief was spread from word of mouth tradition. During the 1st century anyone could have added to the story and that is exactly what the Graeco Romans did. They added to the story and got a Jesus of Christianity.
beholdtheageofold 1 year ago
New Age. Heretical. Apostate.
bella50008 1 year ago
@brother234 didnt jesus love all man? the beggars and sinners alike. he loved a prostitute, or something. when people preach to me, are they like hyprocrites standing on the street corner? please brother234 stop being such a damn hyprocrite. maybe you are the one who needs christs love.
tophu1021 1 year ago
@brother234 you're using circular logic. If I would ask you how you know Jesus is Christ you'd probably tell me "its written in the bible". then i would ask how do you know the bible is true? youll tell me that "the bible says its true". do you see how this arguement will not go anywhere? please stop trying to convert people.
tophu1021 1 year ago
A wolf here in Sheeps clothing: 'Wander off little sheep into the unknown: Go into the powerless world of human love with Spongs' help. Yes, little gullible ones who never read the bible and have not the discernment to understand its simple truths, listen to me, a Spong, for i tell you to wander off from the Christian path' - No - The bible showed the world the necessity for holy God to offer to unholy mankind the spirit of life, by which the works of heaven can be attained. Spong is a wolf.
brother234 1 year ago
Suppose for a moment we are all perfect, suppose we are indeed babes upon the belly of Buddah, suppose you are perfect already. suppose suppose, dream dream, like john lennon, "i'm not the only one". Yeah right, Blind Spong realizes not what the great men of this nation know and protected us against: the wickedness of men who would subjugate you while you pretend we are good when we are not. Good luck people, but the Bible shows and warns a million times over: God is holy and we are not.
brother234 1 year ago
that isheresies
thetsymbalyuk 1 year ago
John Shelby Spong brings Christ's Love back into Christianity
85226 1 year ago
@85226 Foolishness - he brings a way into heaven around Christ's sacrifice. He suggests Christ's sacrifice as unnecessary. But Christ came only after Biblical history showed the world absolute failure to purify by the laws of ones heart. Always corruption no matter how pure the spong's of old would say you could become. His is a dead religion, one where works moves you forward without the spirit of God. Therefore he is a wolf in sheeps clothing who accepts what Christ does not.
brother234 1 year ago
"The only way to serve the Lord is by loving, not by being right". Makes so much sense. There would be more Christians today if more Christian Denominations taught this way.
tophu1021 1 year ago
@tophu1021 The only way Christ showed us to love God and man, was in spirit of love which is sourced from God himself. BUT - Christ also showed that to love in this manner was impossible without forgiveness first and this was impossible without sacrifice unto a holy God who would not help us without payment for sin. God is holy man is corrupted. Therefore, even the good we do, though good to do, won't get us into heaven, nor will it be perfect without God's spirit of true love.
brother234 1 year ago
ok as an atheist, i would much rather live in a world full of Spongs than a world full of TheAmazingAtheists (though i do find some of TAA's videos funny)
procritic09 1 year ago
@procritic09 Spong's world doesn't exist. For it denies the character of God and his Son's sacrifice for the world. Therefore, God will not honor the attempt to circumvent his precious blood sacrifice. The Bible is full of stories of those who tried, even his own people, yet miserably all fell away and were found wanting. (Jesus wept). Christ's love comes by accepting God's highest love, and then he sends a spirit of love to you. With this you can begin to love with sustaining power.
brother234 1 year ago
@brother234 I don't believe that god of christ exists, so all of what you said there is meaningless to me. And don't try and convert me, i've committed the unforgivable sin so people will stop trying.
procritic09 1 year ago
Love is a liberal concept! Let's all be liberal with this quality.
Atatakaidan 1 year ago
An erratic! LOL
VyckRo 1 year ago
I am glad that I am from the Episcopal tradition. The fact that souls like Bishop Spong exist makes me happy. Jesus really does not advocate God being an oppressive, violent jerk. About Spong being apostate: Jesus was a raving apostate heretic for a Jew. Should it be a surprise that the followers of Jesus are often apostate now as he was then?
hereticmax1 1 year ago
@hereticmax1 Jesus was not apostate to the Jews at all: He was the fulfillment of the prophecies written about him, as well, he had to follow their laws perfectly. He did, though he healed on the Sabbath, he healed because the Jewish traditions were not based in the truth of the prophets, rather these restrictions were of the type Spong claims to attack, except Spong goes one step further and denies the necessity for Christ's sacrifice for to have the spirit of God in your heart.
brother234 1 year ago
I am glad that I am from the Episcopal tradition. The fact that souls like Bishop Spong exist makes me happy. Jesus really does not advocate God being an oppressive, violent jerk.
hereticmax1 1 year ago
speaking as a christian with liberal tendencies, spong is too darn liberal
manutdfan4321 1 year ago
@manutdfan4321 Speaking as a doubter, a fact freak, he makes perfect sense :-)
BumJungle 1 year ago
@BumJungle Of course he does: for he is of the world as you are as well. The things of God are spiritually discerned and hidden from the ears of this world. Spong is not a Christian nor does he know Christ's teachings, or he is a lier. For Christ teaches us that the power of God will come only to those who test like a scientist, his experiment for recieving life unto your heart. Accept the fact that you need God's spirit of love, accept his sacrifice of Jesus (God), and he will visit you.
brother234 1 year ago
@brother234 Jesus taught me nothing. I've never met him or read anything he wrote. Not that I believe anything I read in an ancient book of dubious origins to be fact, unlike Christians. All I've seen is things Christians claim (no evidence) are his words written by an unknown author hundreds of years after his death.
God I can consider, Jesus being God is rubbish and fails the logic test. So as for suggesting Spong may be a liar, not likely. As you said, Spong isn't Christian.
BumJungle 1 year ago
@manutdfan4321 - that is the fun with theistic theology - it is all faith-based belief - it is not an issue of fact, necessarily. Therefore, one can still be "liberal" and still be a "good Christian", just as much as one can be an "ultra-conservative" and still be a "good Christian".
Atatakaidan 1 year ago
@Atatakaidan No, you cannot be good as there is only one Good, says Christ. Therefore, the fact is, that fact i present to you here needs to be tested by you - first recieve his sacrifice and put your trust into God that he will show you how to love better by his spirit. He will also guide you into truth. You will grow in discernment and be filled with power from on high. That kind of love is different and potent. The kind of love spong puts forward is common and without power.
brother234 1 year ago
@brother234 - I disagree - but that is your choice - because YOUR belief thinks that nobody is good is not my problem - I see the overwhelming universe as "good" and "perfect" - but you choose to see it as "evil" - I see that as an insult to the creator's own creation.
Atatakaidan 1 year ago
@manutdfan4321 Agreed manut. lol :P
hippo11222 1 month ago
Spong is a jew pretending to be a christian.
Spong believes in the jew god Jahweh, and in an after-life just for kikes.
Spong believes in Hell, because it's written in his talmud, but he thinks only non-jews will go there.
Spong hates christians and the christian God of Goodness, because it defines evil as something bad, and something you will go to hell for. Spong hates this idea because his people are Satan Worshippers, and responcible for infinite evil.
Zebadie69 1 year ago
@Zebadie69 Oh please...you know what? You don`t even deserve a discussion, pure waste of time
migpedroso 1 year ago
Lol, it's official, I have become a Spongian!
aeroshock1 1 year ago
@MrMonist I'm not sure what it means to be a "devout atheist" but if religious people were like Spong there would be no argument.
kaifroland 1 year ago
folks, this is what we call heresy. what god, and i use this term loosely, is he preaching? the Force of Lucas' imagination? because sure as heck it's not the God of the Bible.
florinu123 1 year ago