Bmw Sauber F1 vs Porsche 956 Group-C on Nurburgring

[hunghuge12]

I would love to see this done today. R18TDi vs Redbull.

[ReclusiveDuck]

This video is a joke. Firstly the footage of the 956 is of Derek Bell who was commentating on a demonstration lap he was doing, he wasn't going flat out (His lap time was only 6m41s) and you can see Ickx overtaking him, Ickx was on a qualifying lap.. The F1 car, driven by Heidfeld, is on very hard demo tyres, max ride height and was limited to 275kph. Sauber engineers estimated that a properly set up F1 car would complete the lap in under 5m18s! A pretty pointless video.

[hunghuge12]

@ReclusiveDuck So they think it will take a minute off? I think they're dreaming.

[ReclusiveDuck]

@hunghuge12 That's what the Sauber engineers estimated if a properly set up F1 car was allowed to do a flat out lap, and I would guess that they know what they're talking about! Besides, why would they lie? There's nothing to be gained from lying about it. Also, given the incredible performance of an F1 car I see no reason why it would not be possible. Sadly, the chances of ever seeing it actually done for real are pretty remote :(

[totto210]

this video is fail , -100 stepan bellof (actually record lap, best ever)

the 956 is 5x faster and durable everyone F1 car....

go sleep man.

[daniel987878]

@totto210 956 isnt faster than an f1. Cornering braking are no match.

[mitchdfla]

Both wonderful machines, but to compare is worse than comparing apples to oranges.

[pimpmyforklift]

They are both great cars in there own way and not to be juged .

[cairnsandy1]

Without a timer, it's meaningless, video frame speed can easily be altered.When don't they bend the rules in advertising .As a die-hard turbo fan---just give it another 15lbs of boost.

[krwl1000]

A modern f1 car is surely faster on a track, but you can't deny that the Porsche 956 was a great race car in it's time. And on the straight line it goes up to 400km/h. I would like to see a f1 car doing that.

[Spiiidfr3aK]

@krwl1000 /watch?v=W82DsPkgV-U

[pitmie]

My advice to those who still think that the Group-C Porsche 956 is faster than any modern day F1, THINK AGAIN. I'd agree if the comparison is made between the Group-C 956 and F1 in 1970s or of early 1980s coz the difference of speed is not that huge. But as far as modern day F1 is concerned, it's much, much faster than any other modern day racing cars around a track. The laps done by BMW F1 of Heidfeld in this video was not meant to set some fast laptimes but more to promotional purposes..

[pitmie]

... Modern day F1 cars are faster & better than the Group-C Porsche 956 in every aspect; its acceleration, top speed, braking, cornering etc etc. It's even safer in F1 than in 956 though F1 is clearly faster,thanks to its great technology & safety measures in order to avoid fatality in F1.Had the BMW F1 driven to its full potential,it could've set a new lap record around 5 minutes,or maybe less.Still I have so much respect for the 956 coz it still holds the record for so many years until today.

[lBluefellow]

@pitmie

Not every aspect, don't forget the 956 can go 24 hours...try that with an F1 car :P

[ukrje]

@lBluefellow

i think.. that you can drive an f1 24 hour´s..

die heutigen fahrzeuge halten schon einige kilometer aus

[lBluefellow]

@ukrje Formula 1 teams are allowed to use 8 engines per season before getting a penalty, usually they reach this limit or get close to it...In the 24 Hours of Le Mans they will cover more distance than an entire Formula 1 season on one engine in one day.

[totto210]

@ukrje

HAHAHAH LOL

again : THIS VIDEO IS FAIL.

go sleep uploader

[fergus1494]

@pitmie Remember that tire technology was nothing in comparison to today.. with modern tires alone and more boost i think that Porsche could hold its ground extremely well considering.. also note that group c cars where faster then the f1 cars alot of the time back when they raced. no shit a multi billion dollar car developed with 20 years more tech and advancements in everything can beat a couple hundred k 20 year old race car. a race car that could be bought and build by people in sheds!

[derbigpr500]

For those who think 956 has ANY chance against the F1 car.... just think...can 959 pull 5G in corners? Can in pull 5G on braking? Can it pull 3G on acceleration? Can it change direction as fast as F1? NO!. F1 is MUCH MUCH faster than any group C car....F1 car pushed to the limit on nurburgring with proper setup and good driver could go around in about 5 minutes...maybe even less.

[markandrach]

@derbigpr500 some people are very clueless about f1 cars,they play x box too much

have you heard the silly myth that a lancia s4 qual' 6th on the estoril grid?

haha

[fergus1494]

@derbigpr500 you forgetting the point the 956 is from the 80's.. had a different rule set and a budget that would be blown on a modern f1 car with a new set of wheels.. also the fact that f1 cars are and will only be as fast as the rules allow.. f1 has lost everything about it. its just a lot of money and a lot of rules.. f1 rarely influences production lines. most the tech found in production cars was developed through lmp/grpc reg racing. modern f1 has no actual point apart from ratings?

[derbigpr500]

F1 was driving at about 60-70% of potential.

[X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X]

I don´t like these guys who don´t know anything about motorsports and are only interested in speed of the cars.

PORSCHE 956 IS ONE THE BEST RACECARS EVER BUILT !!!

[dubdaze68]

Let's not forget that Group C back then was a "fuel consumption" formula based on "economy"...The wick was never turned up all the way, and this was before several more years of development on the car culminating with the "humpback" IMSA 962. Also, the Porsche had a full aluminum monocoque, as opposed to the lightweight carbon fiber racers of today, tire tech has come a LONG way, and had 1st gen Motronic and primitive turbo management. Add to that the infancy of "ground effects"....

[blowersho]

Comparing cars separated by a quarter century is asinine. In 1992 however the fastest 3.5L Group C car could probably qualify mid field for an F1 grid. Group C weighed more had less power and were almost as quick, had they continued in a few years they would have been all over an F1 car. Blast that greedy little troll Ecclestone he knew Group C was the best and he killed it, also the ITC and the FIA GT.

[titsxyxyxyxtits]

the Porsche 956 is capable to do it in under 6 mins.

[tompa666]

@titsxyxyxyxtits F1 car can do nordschleife in 5:30

[23djmix]

and the Porsche and its technology is 25 years older than the BMW F1.

[afiqhanifah]

F1 just trial there...not qualifying

[moondog637]

An interesting lap compared with Bell's time 30s slower than Bellof did in a group C.

It just shows how fast an F1 could go around there if it wasn't coasting as Heidfeld was doing for most of the lap

[FTomcat89]

F1 cars are too technical dese days wat happened to basic overpowered go karts

[cockblonked]

@FTomcat89 change, modernization, the same shit that happens to your tv

[FTomcat89]

@cockblonked well im not against change but wats da point ..who needs traction control in a racecar? dats like no fun watsoever

[totto210]

lol lol lol...

956 is designed for 24 hours and f1 for just 2 hours ... 956 breaks her ass a thousand times more to f1

[zsterpin]

@totto210 956 wins in 24hr race....f1 in 2 hour....whats your problem?

[tompa666]

@zsterpin f1 win 24hr race but u must do some smaler changes to the f1 car offcourse

[derbigpr500]

@totto210 You're a complete retard....and all the rest of people here who think this is a race....F1 is much faster, he's not even near the limit in this video.

[villagec3]

Even though the BMW run may have been a photo op and not a race setup, it was nice to hear the BMW stretch its legs a little. Sweet sound.

[Jamirofan89]

You just can't compare them because the track is way too bumpy to push the F1 to the max while that Porsche is "designed" for the ring.

[woodenclock2]

@Jamirofan89

its the bumps that r pushing the car to the max.....idiot

[kisetsushin]

@Jamirofan89

The F1 car has Demonstration tires, very short gears, and the driver was purposely driving slow, in some sections he slowed down to a crawl (relative to the cars actual potential) so that some people could take pictures and whatnot.

The bumps would effect the Porsche as much as it does the F1, it has nothing to do with the difference in these lap times.

[bergomynkia]

..but but but O.O ...it is impossible O_O

[keltanoo]

it is not belloft. theman who did the best timelap ever in this place...

[philodono]

It's Derek Bell on his in lap during qualifying, Jackie Ickx goes past at 1:20 in the sister 956 C and he is on a qualifying lap.

[dubdaze68]

I'm not sure if that was Bellof or Bell driving (there are several videos of the 956 at the Nordschleife) but it definitely wasn't the all out lap the car was capable of. But, with 2 less cylinders, a heavier car, old-tech fuel injection and tires from another era, the fact that it was even comparable is kind of fun. Not to mention Group C cars, were built for endurance AND the fact that most people dont' realize that C was a "fuel consumption" formula. They were only alloted so much fuel.

[LooneySRM]

Wasn't so hard to find the following info :

quote :

Conceived largely as a photo opportunity, the lap times were not as low as the car was capable of, BMW instead choosing to run the chassis at a particularly high ride height to allow for the Nordschleife's abrupt gradient changes and limit maximum speeds accordingly.

hope it's clear now....

[LooneySRM]

as far as i can tell from the info at wiki and google it's the car that's not on it's full potential , as it was a demo-f1 car ;)

I'm just guessing heidfeld did what he could, the car was just a bit underpowered.

[LooneySRM]

all this BS about technology etc ppff

unnessesary discussion if you ask me

that bmw is planted by electronic helps, the other is pure pilot-driven ..so what's the point? it still stays a hell of a great time he put down there!

just enjoy the video , i found it nice to watch .

Great to see how the track has been changing aswell .

[Shlumpysnugs]

No point to this video..... Neither lap was all out.....

[cartoonfan959]

you should forget that the 956 was build to last 24 Hours instead of just 3 like an F1 car

[frena323]

why heidfeld wasnt pushing to 100 % the f1 car??? too risk?

[isaiah213]

in general the f1 car will out peform that 956 porsche any day

[btypirate]

I think that was Nick Heidfeld in the Sauber, doing a promotional run on a cold day...

Please don't compare ...

[yomonstruo]

how much difference is there between them??i didnt get the video,i mean,there werent lap times or comparos...

[LooneySRM]

@yomonstruo : a bit more then 4 seconds later the porsche arrives ...no laptimes because the f1-car went over the gp-finishline , the other took a right turn for the finish on the 'ring'-track :)

[yomonstruo]

i see,so there wasnt that much difference,the porsche did very well hehe.thanks 4 answering

[400SA]

A more valid comparion would have been the 956 vs a same era F1 turbo. Of course the 25 year old 956 has nothing for a modern F1 car! But they were much closer to F1 cars of their time.

[WHITEORSE]

F1 vs Porsche 956.., yes it's true, but: i see whit clarity if Porsche driver, pusch very hard, at maximum possible speed. Sauber driver (Haydfield) also, PUSCH AND RUN, LIKE ME ON MY BABY TRCICLE. So, if F1 pusching very hard, at finally passing 30-40 sec. before Porsche....!!

[xXRocketToUranusXx]

a 962 with very few petrol updated aerodynamics and electronics would crush the f1 car but only on nürburgring and de la sarthe. a 917/30 would crash on flugplatz because of the bad aerodynamics. And to vonPelger the peugot 905 was never the best group c car any decent car brand pulled out of the championship and peugot was only so dominant because they had only themselfs as an opponent. Its sad that there is no group c anymore because FIA and the ACO need to castrate the cars year by year

[leopardation]

Are you certain a 917/30 would crash?

Willi Kauhsen did not crash in his 917/10 in the early 70's with old tyre technology and the obvious poorer track surface.

The 917/30 was a further development of the 917/10....

[redtesta]

it can do it... the ring is bumpy as hell and an F1 car would need to be set up softer to deal with it.. you can see at times him not pushing it.. Nothing compares to an F1 bottom line..

[leopardation]

Fair enough,I can see you are set on the 956,thats cool.

I feel that 1580 BHP(917/30 vs 6-700 BHP(956/962) with similar weights may be a litte too much for the 956 to overcome,but we will only be able to speculate I fear!

How good was Bellof!

[leopardation]

The Porsche is being driven by Derek Bell on a slow lap with the large 1980s camera fitted(See Jackie Ickx fly past him at 1.22! this is not the 6.11 lap! by Stefan Bellof!

Wonder how the 1500 HP 917/30 would go compared to the 600 hp 956?

Also the track course has probably been altered like Le Mans since the 1980s.

[therrydicule]

The time would be slower... But it would be faster in the straight, and not stable and the curve. The 917/30 got not as great suspension and have a bit less good aero then the 956... Just look at the Kremer Racing car in 1981 at Le Mans: It was in the top 10 before it crashed, but it was behind the 936 of Ickx and the Rondeau. It was fighting against Porsche 935 and Ferrari 512BB.

And the 956 is an "upgrade" of the 936.

[leopardation]

There are many different versions of the porshe 917,the Kremer 917 was a 4.9 liter normally aspirated flat 12 engine with around 630 BHP,the 917/30 known to be the most powerful circuit type racing car ever had up to 1500 BHP produced from a 5.4 liter Twin Turbocharged engine,(The 956 and 936 were six cylinder turbos/twin turbos, and not in the same league)

Anyway ,just thought it would be an interesting comparison.

[therrydicule]

It would be interesting... But slower.The 6 917/30 were made for Penske and Mark Donohue.

It had so much hp that they put a 4 speed manual gear box! The 917/30 was (and still is) a fantastic car, but It would be slower then the 956 on that track... We talk about the Nordschleife, to be faster there we, practically, need an hill-climb race car.

But, at Monza, the 917/30 could be in front.

[deggis4]

Stupid comparison. F1 is demo lap, there's 30 years between the cars so what's the point anyway and track is not the same nowadays - not only slight changes in configuration, but track surface, wideness of the track and so on.

Altough I still find it funny, that BMW F1 first does this demo lapping and then brags how the car could do 5.15 when they simulated... show it then!

[vonPelger]

Nice comparison mate. The porsche is 30 seconds under it`s potential and the f1 car - who know`s. The f1 car is for its wheight (600kg - with driver compared to Porsche`s 860kg without driver ) and tyres much faster not for its downforce: the porsche cand develop over 1600kg of downforce at 200mph and the f1 car can over 1800kg... not to mention the best group C car witch developed over 4700kg (Peugeot 905 EVO II)...

[Jamjoe89]

Nice SlowRide from Nick! :D

[andriusssska]

Porsche is going in it's limit, and F1 is far away from it's limit, Because formula 1 car has so much more downforse, and it is to dangerous to take a limit in this track... Also the Engine here is limited, and top speed is limitet to tu 170 mph or 270 km/h ... BMw engineers said that this car could esialy do it under 5.15 ...

[400SA]

A modern F1 car driven in anger would devastate the N-ring. The only situation where a Group C car would have the advantage would be if the race lasted more than 2-3 hours, when the F1 car would promptly blow up........

[DaBomb31290]

Both runs are absolutely amazing. Though as a side note I would like to ask "turbohero" how he put the timer in the lower right.

[marathonberlin]

may be one of these formula 1 guys read our commentaries and says: hey guys i will show who is faster.but i think this will not happen :(

[marathonberlin]

the best promotion is to push like hell and show were the limit really is. This is what Bellof does with the 956 Porsche. There are nearly 30 Years of technical development between the formula 1 car of Nick and stefans car. Think about that fact

[marathonberlin]

nick hat es bestimmt riesig spass gemacht, auch wenn er nur gedrosselt spielen durfte. Ist eben was anderes eine echte rennstrecke und ein moderner grand prix kurs mit netz und doppeltem boden...dennoch: Schumi war der größte einbaumfahrer (sorry formel 1). würde mich freuen den mal bei 24 Stunden lemans oder gar 24 Stunden nürburgring zu sehen. Trifft er einen alten bekannten, den heinz Harald...

[marathonberlin]

das viedeo ist schön, unten rennwagenfeeling, oben playstation

[marathonberlin]

mit dem heldentum der 956ger ära hat die heutige formel eins nichts mehr gemein. Die nordschleife war damals ungleich schwieriger zu fahren. Die heutige ist an vielen stellen eingeebnet mit modernem asphalt. Der vergleich hinkt also ohnehin. auif geradem untergrund mit viel auslaufzone etc (moderner Grand prix kurs) sind die formel1 einbäume sicherlich schneller. auf der alten nordschleife hält Stefan Bellof den rekord. Wenns einen formel1hero besser könnte, hätte er es schon getan, wenn...

[barcher23]

that was good, yeah i think the f1 on a full fast lap itl manage just over the 5m mark

[tedesco86]

Man sieht, dass der F1-Bolide gedrosselt war! Allein auf der langen Gerade am Schluss war er lange schon am Limit angelangt. Ein ungedrosselter F1-Wagen hätte hier ohne Probleme noch bis weit hoch beschleunigt auf weit über 330km/h. Das Gewicht/Leistungsverhältnis ist bei keinem Auto so gut wie bei einem F1-Boliden. Zudem haben sie speziell entwickelte Reifen. Nichts auf 2 - 4 Rädern, was einen "normalen" (nicht Rakete) Verbrennungsmotor hat, kann mit einem F1-Auto verglichen werden!!!

[rodder36122]

Dont forget though,the porsche 956 was a purpose built race car is wasnt ment to be driven on the street,like the acr viper

[dyerasyd]

lol - and the F1 BMW is not purpose built? :-)

relax - I know what you mean - these are not production cars...

[flugplatz21]

The 956 footage is Derek Bell. Notice down the Foxhole, 1:23, how fast Jackie Ickx blows by him on a qualifying lap, so Derek isn't going full chat either.

[toniezar]

The F1 driver is poor. He could have gons so much quicker. Pussy.

[Gunmetalsilver]

You have no idea. This car was set up with demonstration tires and he was instructed to do not push the car above 280 kms per hour. It was all just for a BMW promotion, not for the fastest Lap on the Norschleife... and, by the way: the Driver was Nick Heidfeld, currently fifth in the Drivers Challenge of the 2008 Formula One season... next time, if you would do us a favor, acquaint yourself with knowlegde - before posting such an incompetent comment like yours is.

[VonVoltage]

He's doing a demonstration for the cameras... he was told not to push.

[porsche911gt3]

Heidfeld KNOWS every corner of the Ring. Trust me.

[Skistar92]

ich sag nur 6 min 11 sec und 13 hunderstel

die zeit schlägt niemand!

f1 is gegen gruppe c fahrzeuge ein scheißdreck...

beim 917 hat porsche übrigens den reifen mit der felge extra verbinden müssen weil die felge im reifen durch gedreht hat

(bei 2.54 bar ladedruck 1520 ca. auf 800 kilo ) das nennt man abtrieb.

und die formel 1 is dagegen ein scheissdreck

[junceiro]

Great video. Great laps from those amazing cars. Although, i would like to see the F1, here driven by Nick Heidfeld, run in it's full potetntial.

For those who doesn't know BMW tryed to "slow" as max as they could the performance of the car, by putting max downforce, short relation gearbox, car higher some more, and the fuek tank full... also, they told Nick not to get too excited... and to don't push it to it's maximum... Even though, I agree: those "beasts" from Group C were amazing!

[Jarnoparoni]

Who is riding the formular 1 at this film??? Jarnoparoni

[freshjive818]

nick hiedfeld!!!!!

[insomnia80s]

i agree bellos 6:11 time vid would be better

[AyrtonSennaGODsPilot]

it looks like its derek bell and ickx goes by earlier on

nice work!

[brakeexpress]

why dont u put stefan bellofs time entead in the same car porche 956 triet

[maxmc89]

Because there was no footage of stefan's lap. In those days recording cameras weighed a lot.