i dont agree at all with the statements that society gives women a lower role, thats a recent thing thats what feminists did, they compared motherhood to slavery, men worked themselves to death to protect their wives and children, i mean, id be a stay at home dad, i really think women should put more value on their own role, i think motherhood is the most crucial, whilst i think jobs outside dont mean a thing compared to ur own kids
she studied critical theory and tries to critisize science, i mean really?
on top of that she still lives in the past, sorry but really a bias in the advcantage of males? does she have a tv, or check out any schools where they have huge biasesses towards girls
(boys are falling behind right?)
i dont think she is very credible
if she thinks she has the truth on her side, do some real science then we will see if its the case
The default position is male, it always is. Men have been trained to be interested in things rather than people because men go fight wars for things while woman have historically stayed home to look after people.
I think that, because if this men have caused all wars, so maybe men have to justice a violence to themselves where woman don't. Just a thought.
I would suggest that children's lit is so bipolar in a " pink and blue way" is because our society teaches boys to be boys and girls to be girls. I believe most of the differences between the sex's are learnt.
Fine's book got some harsh critique for being selective, not addressing peer reviewed science articles (only popular science) and referenced sources not really supporting Fine's claims.
One problem with this "low status" crap, is when you find yourself in any family court. Women have ALL power there. Also, in murder cases, or other cases, women get less, or no time for crime. There is gender bias, in both directions, and these tow people are both "agreeing" with one another that only women are affected negatively by gender bias. THAT NOTION is the root of the actual problem.
People who buy what Fine is selling are going to be in for a big surprise when they have children and try to raise them as if there aren't inherent differences.
...that being said, she does seem to be very committed to the idea that gender is entirely social, which I think is pretty illogical. Hormones alone are a known biological influence, if you study transgender people you'll find that some people just tend to have certain gendered tendencies- and that if you go through hormone therapy, some mental/emotional tendencies will change. Not to mention that we now know that biology has more to do with human behavior in general than previously known.
@HKTeeVee Actually, I don't think she says that gender is entirely social. I think she is saying that society interfaces with or influences biological tendencies. There is a nuanced but highly important difference between the two. We need to appreciate such nuances, not smugly sweep over them as if they don't matter, but our crude and sophomoric impressions do.
@HKTeeVee I don't know. Transgender people who go through hormone treatment are going to have a very high expectation that they will change, and, as the book shows, the slightest expectaion of a particular outcome can be very powerful in forming it (similar to a placebo effect.)
Let me repeat. THERE ARE NO BIOLOGICAL GENDER DIFFERENCES IN THE HUMAN BRAIN. These 'differences' between male and female brains has been debunked by Cordelia Fine in her book. If you read the book you'd realize that she has provided substantial rebuttals to your 'herp derp there totally are gender differences' claim, you wouldn't provide this youtube video with ignorant as fuck comments.
Let me repeat. THERE ARE NO BIOLOGICAL GENDER DIFFERENCES IN THE HUMAN BRAIN. These 'differences' between male and female brains has been debunked by Cordelia Fine in her book. If you read the book you'd realize that she has provided substantial rebuttals against your arguments again and again in her book. Lest you read the book you wouldn't provide this youtube video with ignorant as fuck comments.
@petsnooze If you want to debunk something scientifcally, you don't write a book. You submit a research paper for peer review, (after conducting legitimate research.
Stefan I am one of your admirers but your dream toward freedom or make women's equal in rights to men you can't see the that you don't even need science to acknowledge women are different from men. Our hunter gather ancestors even knew that.
@tafw Women are not different from men. And if you believe so then tell me these 'differences' for which you speak of. Women are just as capable as a man when it comes to the brain. And where the hell is your source for the hunter gatherer info?
I did not wrote about abilities. I just wrote about the evidence of men and women being different. I don't need a book to tell me things that are common sense, if she-- the author -- is a PhD she has no credibility in sustaining her point of view. The time were PhD's couldn't being discussed is gone. .. .If you can't see this -- differences included-- you are beyond any help.
@tafw Wow. You just said that you don't need an expert opinion to arrive at a conclusion, and that common sense is good enough, as if a common opinion is correct just because most people believe it. That has nothing to do with truth. It has to do with popularity. Fine did the research--you have just admitted you haven't. If I am going to trust anybody's opinion, I will trust Fine's, because she has researched the literature; you merely rely on "what people say".
I don't need to read any book, nor do any research, (BTW I don't need an expert either) to know-- KNOW-- women are different from men. You -- and those who claim women = men -- are on the delusion of politically correctness. Wake up get out of the matrix. Millions are getting out from politically correctness and how globalists trapped us on false concepts.
I think you have gotten this from other commentators as well - but there are significant differences between neural patterns among men and women to various stimuli. This "Dr. Fine" does not have any evidence for what she is claiming.
Secondly, the reason for why a boy behaving like a girl IS horizontally attacked as sissy - is for the same reason a serf would be chastized for behaving as if royalty. Of all people I thought you would get that right, of your own experiences with horizontal stuff
Dr. Fine is not doing anything origional here. She simply is rehashing and then trying to re-introduce the worn out and completely disproven concept of gender as a strictly social construct.
This is nonsense!
Men and women are different. Homosexuals and heterosexuals are different. All on a very basic level.
She is not a neroscientist by any strech of the imagination she is simply the product of the post modern thinking school of psychology. I will definitely not be reading her book.
The nurture of children in the context of gender is, ultimately, dictated by the different physical natures of men and women.
Secondly. The word 'nature', it could be argued, means the 'way of things'. So when we talk about human nature we mean 'the way of all things human'. 'The way of all things human' provides the foundations for just about all abstract concepts including the concept 'nurture'.
Thirdly. Because nature means 'the way of things' everything - by definition - is rooted ...
please stef, do some research whats behind the genderism-agenda!
its there 2 destroy human kind ! just like feminism !
very very sad, that you endorce this bullshit without knowing whats realy behind it !
its all about control, artificial production of humans, eugenics, the absolut control of children from the making until death ! by destroying the family!
scientists playing god ! please stef.look at it ! i am willing to send you more details about it because youre 2 smart 2 get fooled by this!
What's so wonderful about everyone being equal? Equal means 'the same as'; egalitarianism is a product of the nihilism created by our materialist culture. I think the increasing involvement of women in civic society is more of a good thing than a bad thing but there is no need for egalitarianism as a pretext for this to happen.
Just because neuroscientists can't find any difference between male and female brains doesn't mean men and women have the same minds. The average male mind is clearly very different from the average female mind. Our minds our defined by our bodies as well as our brains. Secondly the delight these two people seem to feel in 'finding' that there is no difference between male and female is another example of the increasing madness of egalitarianism.
@1thousandways Hmmm no proof in your statements. You did not even deal with the basic problem of nature verse nurture which would be the second step after no difference was found in the nature of the brain. Please try to be precise my friend and good luck.
@antiphony33 First off, I'm not your friend so fuck off you cunt. Secondly, you are a tedious scientific-minded dweeb who is obsessed with 'proof' when you only have the vaguest idea of what 'proof' means. Thirdly you haven't grasped that nurture is rooted in nature and therefore 'nurture vs nature' is not the straight-forward dialectic you imagine it to be.
@1thousandways No oeffese was meant to you. I would rather not speak to people who are aggresive and rude. Yes there are more than obvouse differences between men and women but many of these diff. are not radically real or grounded in the physical differences caused by nature. equal means much more than the same as. It's not a matter of wether it is right or not...it is a matter of acting in a way that affects the world the way you wish it to change. anyway please dont be unkind its annoying.
@angeltears87 Okely-dokely. There's three ways to make this point. Firstly the nurture of a child is primarily dictated by the nature of the human organism. Nurture of a small child is primarily about teaching him/her to walk, eat, speak, etc. You have to do this to nurture a child because the nature of the human organism dictates it. Other aspects of nurture are not dictated by nature quite as simply (as walking,etc) but they are dictated by nature none the less.
@angeltears87 ... in nature. The point is that nurture (of children) is rooted in (human) nature. Therefore nurture is actually a sub-set of nature. Consequently to treat nature and nurture as opposites and create a dialectic between them is to view things in a skewed and misleading way.
@angeltears87 With respect you do not disagree with me because in order to disagree with me you have to counter what I have said. All you have done is state the sentence "I disagree with your premise from the beginning".
Yes. I don't have a position in this conversation. You are making assertions and until you can present a case for it. I am under no obligation to present a case for disagreeing. At this time I merely am unconvinced.
But what about the direct examples of gender deconstruction experimentation which failed?
The problem here, I think, is the term gender and sex are often confused. Usually at the convenience of an individual (or group) whose stability of reason is in a state of flux.
because we all know the number of amazing new inventions created by women over the last 40 years... white out, is one. the self-cleaning house is the other.
There are huge differences between a man and a woman's standard brain.
Which doesn't mean at all that they will always have 100% standard brains of their respective sexes. Due to them being exposed to mothers hormones during pregnancy or to many other reasons, the fact is that the regular people use to have a mix of both gender's brains. It has actually being proven that homosexual and transgender people's brains usually function like the one of their opposite gender.
@marvincontendo Look - I'm a gay man and I don't think or act anything like a woman (if there are such things as thinking and acting like a woman - which is what this podcast and book are all about), so you can ditch all that, it's bollocks. (And another thing: What's being homosexual got to do with being transgender? They're nothing to so with each other.)
@Lawsome101 What a placidargument. How on earth are ones else going to do these things? Have some professor from inner China to do it? Or shall we only study these things when people are not interested?
When I was a youngster my sisters loved nothing more than smashing their heads through walls, whereas I was an extremely cuddly and smart little boy. Luckily my dad was a drywaller.
@Lawsome101 There were gender differences long before tv, propaganda, and government. It has been statism (feminism) that has warped our natural balance.
The remark, your just like your dad or just like your mother often comes as a shock to us when we hear this statement however as our brains are biological computers that learn from external stimuli, whatever behaviour we observe we copy. All gender bias that exists among us is learned from our surrounding society, we can observe this through the vast differences in cultures around the world. Though western society is trying very hard to break the mould it will take a few generations yet.
Hirsi Ali, Michelle Rhee, Dambisa Moyo.......stef, come on, there's plenty of smart atheist, or anti-union, or anti-statist women of color out there saying some pretty outspoken things....PLEASE have THEM ON YOUR SHOW!!!!!!
Quick point. I think the word 'dandy' is the 'tomboy' equivalent for men. It's not related to sexual preference and it's not a negative label. Minor observation but important.
Of course there are differences between men and women. You must be blind not to see them. One has a dick, the other has a vagina, of course their brain will work a little bit different. I also want to remind you all that Women's Lib and feminism are designed and sponsored by the rockefellers, and quite successfully too. The family as a social unit is almost but wiped out in the western world. Male's masculinity is ridiculed and shunned, because you can't have freedom without warriors.
I covered a copy of Romeo and Juliet with a false cover when I was in high school to avoid ridicule. I was interested in Shakespeare's tragedy, but aware that it would cause (more) social problems for me at school. Path of least resistance.
I'm sorry you feel disrespected Laws, but you need to go back and read my comment. What I am talking about is indisputable science..hormones affect the brain. Body and mind (or rather brain) are one for transgender people too.
Give a transgender person adrenaline, they will be in a certain state of mind,
melatonin, another, etc. *You* are being disrespectful. Reproduction has a huge effect on women, and they should be aware of postpartum depression, etc.
Although there is alot of exaggerated interpretation of science, and culture can powerfully affect our biology, is eliminating gender actually a good thing? Ivan Illich wrote a book "gender" from a historical context, and came to the conclusion that as gender roles broke down in many societies, historically, the inequality and oppression of women *increased*.
@givebirthathome I raised my daughter in NY's radical alphabet-city neighborhood, and plenty of my friends allowed their boys to wear long hair..and I don't think it crossed anyone's mind to even imagine boys would not play with dolls. I saw no particular "gender" in her at 20 months and I wasn't looking.
However, because I was child-rearing in a city , I got to see many children, and indeed, it did seem to me that on the average the girls spoke earlier and more clearly than the boys..
This wasn't a "cultural stereotype" that I had ever heard..but the fact is my daughter spoke in clear complete sentences at 2, and I then began to notice that most of her little boy friends were still having a hard time making themselves comprehensible to adults at three.
But the most obvious biological difference in the brain I've experienced for myself. Women menstruate. Nobody culturally imposes this one women! I don't think anyone challenges the science on the hormonal rhythms underlying
ovulation either. The relevance here is that menstruation doesn't just have to do with blood...it effects mental states. There is no "delusion" of gender there! Tell
me I'm having a delusion when I can't stand up because of the pain, or literally run a temperature (a brain-mediated phenomena) because of the hormones! There are no cultural stereotypes about female body temperature...and if you've got a thermometer and a friendly female, you can check this for yourself..you don't need scientific
literature. And if you are sensitive and self-aware, you notice changes in your emotional state and cognitive abilities all through the month, that go far beyond any stereotype of bitchy menstruating women.
Because neurotic scientists are imposing their sexist ideas on their research is no reason to go to the opposite extreme and start talking about the "delusion" of gender...the body and mind are one. We already have all the evidence we need that there are brain differences in gender.
Question: from a strict materialist perspective why wouldn't there be a difference between men and women? There are marked differences between males and females of other species. Why not people? Taking this a step further, there are differences in talents and abilities in individuals. I'm not a psychologist or a psychiatrist, but I am educated and I am just not buying her argument.
@steve0281 No you're wrong, for example all dogs (like jacks Russell's) can run as quick as greyhounds (If raised the same). Wait, what ? Funny how every single animal on the planet differs based on sex and breed, but when we come to humans were all the same, the rules just vanish. Not saying people shouldn't have equal opportunities, they should, but certain areas will always be dominated based on sex and race, FACT !
If men and women were really the same the statists wouldn't be putting female hormones is baby food, soda bottles and much more. Boys become more effete and then rationalize that effete nature in colorful ways, while women get breast cancer and rush through their possible child rearing ages. Girls reach child rearing early and then end it sooner, leaving the most women who "want it all" childless. The goal is depopulation, and feminism was invented by the statists.
Female emergent characteristics aren't going to appear until their hormones truly begin to work. Like 3 years of age.
< a year old - the child doesn't even have a self awareness yet.
True gender issues begin around 7 years of age for boys in my opinion. There are three critical periods: 3 years, 7 years, and 11 years of age. Trauma or deviant behavior will have a life long impact.
These seem more like the author's issues than a projected society. IMHO...lol
some things which interest me if they really are true or false
i have no doubts on testosterone effect but other things
men naturally excel at judging speeds ,trajectory's from reading maps at any angle (primal instinct) were women instead naturally excel with remembering fine density and digits and ! see more shades of red than men (nocturnal instinct) ?
I agree with many of the ideas expressed here, however I have to strongly disagree with the whole idea of gender inequality as it exists today. The notion that "men are people and women are women" is outdated. One only has to witness the misandry expressed on many sitcoms and t.v. commercials to see the man displayed as the idiot moron, and the woman comes in to 'save the day' as the superior, intelligent and 'together' being.
@raffiican Yeah - I second that. This idea of Misogyny being in play today... maybe among the 45 + group...but everyone under the age of 30 I know is so totally not engaged in that mentality.
They except homosexuals, races, genders as homogeneous. Christ everyone nowadays is bi-sexual or metro-sexual. lol Tattooed freaks. give me a break.
This reminds me of those people that can't let go of their education - and have to create an issue to be unique or acknowledged.
Cordelia Fine's expertise is in ethics and psychology, so it appears her approach is far more about the fear of people misusing sex differences to prejudge capability by sex, a little like the Gattaca theme, rather than actually verifying whether those sex differences are actual. She is *concerned* about bias in scientists.
But her claim that observers of babies wouldn't be scrupulously blinded to the babies' sex sounds suspicious. I mean, come on.
"Sex differences in human neonatal social perception" by Connellan, Baron-Cohen, et al. (Infant Behavior & Development 23 (2000) 113–118) tests neonatals on the day they're born to see if babies prefer a dangling mobile or a human face. Connellan was the human face: "Her hair was tied back, she wore no make-up or jewelry, and the face was positioned 20 cms above the subject. She adopted a positive, pleasant emotional expression, while remaining silent."
... The results are that male neonatals spend more time on average (52 seconds compared to 46) looking at the dangling mobile, while female neonatals spend more time looking at the human face (49 seconds compared to 41 seconds).
If Fine claims that Connellan somehow corrupted the evidence, she needs to back it up. Simply suggesting that Connellan may have, isn't really enough.
You continue to supply very thought provoking videos on the topic of parenting, and the male role in that. I admire your kind manner, and the honorable way carry a conversation on about any topic. You help me develop my own way of letting go of prejudices in a very constructive way.
Male and female brains are significantly physically different, so it's naive to think they can work in the same way. And it's not really a matter of "bad science", but bad popular writers with their bad interpretations of the science.
I tend to believe the main (only?) role of men on this planet is to protect women, physically, financially, etc. And that's pretty much it. Women have inherited magical gifts from nature and we really ought to protect them. Agreed that women often show more integrity than men. Given. Sure women also probably work better than men. But then that's not the question. Women have inherited (whether we like it or not) a gift that men just can't duplicate. So any real equation has to start there.
Yeah, and most like to think we actually have problems "now" with all of our bankers, just because they are "men", wait until the profession is lead mostly by women... ;)
Same for races in fact, I often find myself thinking that it's thanks to people like Richard Pryor or Eddie Murphy who so elegantly insisted by pointing out at some of the tiny weird differences here and there between races, oooooh white guys this, but ahhhh now black guys that, eeeeh and chinese fellow this, and making them all "cute" in our eyes calling for laughter which in turn creates this element of tolerance... Not convinced (jmho) all women really enjoy men not acting like bears.
I have always thought that is was a romantic (more socialist?) approach, to believe that genders don't come with many eventual stereotypes and that not embracing them was the right thing to do. My own personal "non-documented" study (65+ countries) drove me to think that it was somewhat more "rational" to just allow ourselves to agree with 2M+ years of nature and how it decided to built two different ends, two different pieces to the puzzle we make, and beautify all the differences.
To me this sound a bit like the old fashioned politically correct social exorcism, that has dominated and been the oppressive orthodoxy on universities since the 1960s, as a form of a cultural lag from the middle ages and the old jesuit method of fighting heresies and witchcraft. Those who disbelieve the orthodoxy that gender is a social construct, put them on a stake, and drive the devil out of them!
Given what we know about how non-human ape society works and how closely are related to them, Cordelia Fine has a very tough case to prove beyond criticisms of studies. I'm not yet convinced.
My little brother was given a makeup kit when he was 3 years old, and grew up to be quite masculine. And my mother discouraged me from buying G.I.Joe action figures, but I wanted them anyway. And my sister, growing up with the influence of two boys, chose Barbee over the toys of her brothers.
Regarding how the anthropomorphism within children's stories being depicted as male by default,with the exception of the emphasized weaker natured attributes of female depictions; I've never heard anyone mention why it is that the default gender of undesirable anthropomorphic characters in TV ads etc, is male as well. For instance: Germs, warts, roaches,mucus, toenail fungus, old mops,pain etc. ... What's your opinion on how that may influence how boys and girls view maleness? Thanks.
Is there a woman to your liking that can handle a frank debate? Or must you come to the rescue and violate your own posturing at equality? I look forward to your reply and you know where to find me. Your guest was an example of deconstructionism that I have mentioned already.
As an anti-statist you should be able to see how feminism has ruined as much as it has helped, and your blind spot to how women prefer the big daddy state is as amazing. The state has given women the best of equality and the best of chivalry, while men continue to get the worst of both. I'm happily married and have kids. To debate you would mean a joust in the clouds between males, like animals, and not be a search for the truth, but you defending your herd of females followers.
good morning thx for sharing this informmation to the world. A man is just a women without emotion and breasts! And a woman is just a man that cares too much about things that can handel their own.
Infants are more gender neutral and it is only when the hormones take over that differences are made more extreme and are even triggered into activation. Gandhi said those who go about just change by peaceful means are the best, those who go about just change by violence are SECOND best, and those who do nothing in the face of injustice are worst. Talking without action is effete and philosophers are male in brain and effete in action. You seem to want to cross the line.
Stef you do a good job flirting. You should do a video on flirting. This is one of your better videos, it's nice to see that energy in the video and to have a woman being interviewed for a change.
Your other video answering emails was one of your best to date, as again it was down to earth and more practical than most. Your flaw is jousting in the clouds which is the curse of all philosophical obsessed people (which are almost all males). Ayn Rand wrote fiction, so where is the equal division of philosophical women philosophers? There isn't even 1 % of women in this field, instead we have gender studies, which could be called the studying of oneself and not the truth.
if you read judith butler, julia kristeva, et al, this book would never have had to be written and both ms. fine and stef would not have to wax surprise that gender differences are largely socially constructed
As a father of two, a boy and a girl, I'm not quite sure I understand the problem. What's wrong with being a feminine girl or a masculine boy? I think my children would have more trouble in life if I raised my daughter to be masculine and my son to be feminine – or worse, raised them both to be asexual. I mean, they do have to live in this world and find a mate. I feel that part of my job is to teach them how to do that.
lol on the comments. American PaleoLibertarialConservatives think they're oppressed because mainstream society is pressuring them to abandon their "Jati" values system. These are the same people who slobber all over Stephan's personal freedom message and incorporate it into their own philosophy, but they conveniently block out all the things they disagree with- (treat others responsibly, value community, children are also individuals, etc)
As a father of 4 children, and an educator for the last 20 years, I feel that the only reason why some people would imagine that gender carachteristic of people are mainly socially acquired is because they have not experienced raising a larger amount of children.
A lot of masculine behaviours are enforced by the desire of women. Women are attracted to men who they admire, and men are attracted to women that demonstrate health and youth (beauty). Boys will be eager and girls will be pretty.
As a stay-at-home dad, I agree the bias exists. I see lots of funny looks and questions like, "Are you spending the day with daddy?"
Remembering just now separated I felt from my own father, I'm glad that my kids will know "daddy" as a real human being, not as this machine that I see on weekends or nights when he's tired.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
@CurtHowland Stay at home dad = someone too lazy to go out and work , but more than willing to take hand outs from the state , or have their other half work to provide for them.
Using the excuse of wanting to be there for the children as the reason for not working .
Now Stef, I've got less than no ability to analyze the effects of childhood on the adult, but to me it appears as though the feminists are the ones who are making a presupposition that genders are, on the aggregate, equally able to 1. provide value to employers 2. succeed in academia in every area of knowledge 3. manage a network of personal relationships etc. etc.
Given the vast difference in genes and hormones, equality seems a much more ridiculous presumption than large variation.
Only have time to listen to 1:st 17 min, as a parent and having worked with children I recognise and agree with everything so far. I will definitly get the book, thanks Stef for adressing this subject.:)
I don't buy this because of publication bias. I'm pretty sure that thousands of years of evolution hardwired out brains for different tasks. As a gay guy I'm pretty sure that masculinity/femininity personality differences are neurologically hardwired because of how I personally prefer to exist. The idea of a blank slate I think is very silly and doesn't give nearly enough credit to darwinian trends upon the brain.
OMG I never ever thought Stef would buy into cultural marxism, wow. OK I'm going upstairs now to get ready for work. I'm going to put on my wife's; panties, bra, dress and high heals, put on; lip stick, eye liner and make up and head for the building site (I'm in construction) I mean if anyone out their thinks men and women won't differ based on different sex needs to get their head checked. Yes of course environment play a factor, but men and women will always differ.
@CoWalsh04 I did not once hear Stef claim that there was no difference between the sexes, only that "gender roles" are very much a part of cultural conditioning. Ex: You used putting on make-up as a specifically female trait and yet there are cultures where it is the men who decorate themselves in order to attract women, like the Wodaabe peoples of Niger. In the West, building muscle, wearing toupees, etc.. serve the same purpose for men. It is all semantics. It is all based on culture.
@Marchije OK can I move to the Niger and were my wife's; panties, bra, dress and high heels, plus wear; lipstick, mascara and put a body wave in my hair. That would be fine ? OK I get it now. What culture would it be OK for me to wear my wife's clothes ? So basically were all nuts (bigots). Everyone can be tranny one day and something different the next.
i dont agree at all with the statements that society gives women a lower role, thats a recent thing thats what feminists did, they compared motherhood to slavery, men worked themselves to death to protect their wives and children, i mean, id be a stay at home dad, i really think women should put more value on their own role, i think motherhood is the most crucial, whilst i think jobs outside dont mean a thing compared to ur own kids
MGsven 3 weeks ago
she studied critical theory and tries to critisize science, i mean really?
on top of that she still lives in the past, sorry but really a bias in the advcantage of males? does she have a tv, or check out any schools where they have huge biasesses towards girls
(boys are falling behind right?)
i dont think she is very credible
if she thinks she has the truth on her side, do some real science then we will see if its the case
MGsven 3 weeks ago
The default position is male, it always is. Men have been trained to be interested in things rather than people because men go fight wars for things while woman have historically stayed home to look after people.
I think that, because if this men have caused all wars, so maybe men have to justice a violence to themselves where woman don't. Just a thought.
jamesregmorris 1 month ago
@jamesregmorris u realize there are plenty of women that started wars throughout history right?
MGsven 3 weeks ago
I would suggest that children's lit is so bipolar in a " pink and blue way" is because our society teaches boys to be boys and girls to be girls. I believe most of the differences between the sex's are learnt.
jamesregmorris 1 month ago
Comment removed
oishui 3 months ago
I find this topic fascinating. Good on her for providing a different perspective, and exploring a very interesting and important issue.
EnigmaticOricle 4 months ago
Fine's book got some harsh critique for being selective, not addressing peer reviewed science articles (only popular science) and referenced sources not really supporting Fine's claims.
saldownik 6 months ago
One problem with this "low status" crap, is when you find yourself in any family court. Women have ALL power there. Also, in murder cases, or other cases, women get less, or no time for crime. There is gender bias, in both directions, and these tow people are both "agreeing" with one another that only women are affected negatively by gender bias. THAT NOTION is the root of the actual problem.
jbearden 7 months ago
People who buy what Fine is selling are going to be in for a big surprise when they have children and try to raise them as if there aren't inherent differences.
rooley 8 months ago
@rooley That's what she's saying.
robzrob 4 months ago
IDK I'll have to read the book I guess lol
HKTeeVee 9 months ago
...that being said, she does seem to be very committed to the idea that gender is entirely social, which I think is pretty illogical. Hormones alone are a known biological influence, if you study transgender people you'll find that some people just tend to have certain gendered tendencies- and that if you go through hormone therapy, some mental/emotional tendencies will change. Not to mention that we now know that biology has more to do with human behavior in general than previously known.
HKTeeVee 9 months ago
@HKTeeVee Actually, I don't think she says that gender is entirely social. I think she is saying that society interfaces with or influences biological tendencies. There is a nuanced but highly important difference between the two. We need to appreciate such nuances, not smugly sweep over them as if they don't matter, but our crude and sophomoric impressions do.
Brandon112878 9 months ago 15
@Brandon112878 I'm reading the book now. pretty interesting so far...
HKTeeVee 9 months ago 28
@HKTeeVee I don't know. Transgender people who go through hormone treatment are going to have a very high expectation that they will change, and, as the book shows, the slightest expectaion of a particular outcome can be very powerful in forming it (similar to a placebo effect.)
robzrob 4 months ago
- There is & has been many differences between cultures concerning gender roles.
- I don't think the point is to say that there is or can be no differences, just the extent to which differences are known to be biological.
- it appears that the book is on how society and culture misinterpret scientific studies to make psuedo-scientific claims.
- if your reaction to information that challenges a belief you've held is that it must be false, maybe that reaction is more emotional than logical.
HKTeeVee 9 months ago
@stardust005 Dr Fine has many peer-reviewed, published articles, some of which are on this topic.
positivepetzine 10 months ago
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Let me repeat. THERE ARE NO BIOLOGICAL GENDER DIFFERENCES IN THE HUMAN BRAIN. These 'differences' between male and female brains has been debunked by Cordelia Fine in her book. If you read the book you'd realize that she has provided substantial rebuttals to your 'herp derp there totally are gender differences' claim, you wouldn't provide this youtube video with ignorant as fuck comments.
petsnooze 1 year ago
Let me repeat. THERE ARE NO BIOLOGICAL GENDER DIFFERENCES IN THE HUMAN BRAIN. These 'differences' between male and female brains has been debunked by Cordelia Fine in her book. If you read the book you'd realize that she has provided substantial rebuttals against your arguments again and again in her book. Lest you read the book you wouldn't provide this youtube video with ignorant as fuck comments.
petsnooze 1 year ago
@petsnooze If you want to debunk something scientifcally, you don't write a book. You submit a research paper for peer review, (after conducting legitimate research.
stardust005 1 year ago
Stefan I am one of your admirers but your dream toward freedom or make women's equal in rights to men you can't see the that you don't even need science to acknowledge women are different from men. Our hunter gather ancestors even knew that.
tafw 1 year ago
@tafw Women are not different from men. And if you believe so then tell me these 'differences' for which you speak of. Women are just as capable as a man when it comes to the brain. And where the hell is your source for the hunter gatherer info?
petsnooze 1 year ago
@petsnooze You've got to be kidding lol...
alique087 1 year ago
@petsnooze
I did not wrote about abilities. I just wrote about the evidence of men and women being different. I don't need a book to tell me things that are common sense, if she-- the author -- is a PhD she has no credibility in sustaining her point of view. The time were PhD's couldn't being discussed is gone. .. .If you can't see this -- differences included-- you are beyond any help.
This discussion is finished for me.
tafw 1 year ago
@tafw Wow. You just said that you don't need an expert opinion to arrive at a conclusion, and that common sense is good enough, as if a common opinion is correct just because most people believe it. That has nothing to do with truth. It has to do with popularity. Fine did the research--you have just admitted you haven't. If I am going to trust anybody's opinion, I will trust Fine's, because she has researched the literature; you merely rely on "what people say".
Brandon112878 9 months ago 13
@Brandon112878
I don't need to read any book, nor do any research, (BTW I don't need an expert either) to know-- KNOW-- women are different from men. You -- and those who claim women = men -- are on the delusion of politically correctness. Wake up get out of the matrix. Millions are getting out from politically correctness and how globalists trapped us on false concepts.
tafw 9 months ago
@tafw I think you're on the wrong channel.
robzrob 4 months ago
@tafw I think that has more to do with the differences in men and women's bodies.
GetteLace713 1 year ago
@tafw Yes, but what ARE the differences? That's what CF is trying to get at.
robzrob 4 months ago
a lot of the comments on this video have a bunch of assertions, but no links to evidence :(
vteam02 1 year ago 2
I think you have gotten this from other commentators as well - but there are significant differences between neural patterns among men and women to various stimuli. This "Dr. Fine" does not have any evidence for what she is claiming.
Secondly, the reason for why a boy behaving like a girl IS horizontally attacked as sissy - is for the same reason a serf would be chastized for behaving as if royalty. Of all people I thought you would get that right, of your own experiences with horizontal stuff
utubehayter 1 year ago
Dr. Fine is not doing anything origional here. She simply is rehashing and then trying to re-introduce the worn out and completely disproven concept of gender as a strictly social construct.
This is nonsense!
Men and women are different. Homosexuals and heterosexuals are different. All on a very basic level.
She is not a neroscientist by any strech of the imagination she is simply the product of the post modern thinking school of psychology. I will definitely not be reading her book.
roharatube 1 year ago
The nurture of children in the context of gender is, ultimately, dictated by the different physical natures of men and women.
Secondly. The word 'nature', it could be argued, means the 'way of things'. So when we talk about human nature we mean 'the way of all things human'. 'The way of all things human' provides the foundations for just about all abstract concepts including the concept 'nurture'.
Thirdly. Because nature means 'the way of things' everything - by definition - is rooted ...
1thousandways 1 year ago
please stef, do some research whats behind the genderism-agenda!
its there 2 destroy human kind ! just like feminism !
very very sad, that you endorce this bullshit without knowing whats realy behind it !
its all about control, artificial production of humans, eugenics, the absolut control of children from the making until death ! by destroying the family!
scientists playing god ! please stef.look at it ! i am willing to send you more details about it because youre 2 smart 2 get fooled by this!
infokriegerBerlin 1 year ago
@infokriegerBerlin
I had to correct you it isn't about "destryoying the family" it is about destroying the oppressive family structure
angeltears87 1 year ago
@angeltears87
yeah right the state cares about us so much..that we beeing oppressed !
the state loves us so much....
so it became a crime in europe to say mother or father because of discrimination... thats called thoghtcrime... orwell would be happy ;)
infokriegerBerlin 1 year ago
What's so wonderful about everyone being equal? Equal means 'the same as'; egalitarianism is a product of the nihilism created by our materialist culture. I think the increasing involvement of women in civic society is more of a good thing than a bad thing but there is no need for egalitarianism as a pretext for this to happen.
1thousandways 1 year ago
Just because neuroscientists can't find any difference between male and female brains doesn't mean men and women have the same minds. The average male mind is clearly very different from the average female mind. Our minds our defined by our bodies as well as our brains. Secondly the delight these two people seem to feel in 'finding' that there is no difference between male and female is another example of the increasing madness of egalitarianism.
1thousandways 1 year ago
@1thousandways Hmmm no proof in your statements. You did not even deal with the basic problem of nature verse nurture which would be the second step after no difference was found in the nature of the brain. Please try to be precise my friend and good luck.
antiphony33 1 year ago
@antiphony33 First off, I'm not your friend so fuck off you cunt. Secondly, you are a tedious scientific-minded dweeb who is obsessed with 'proof' when you only have the vaguest idea of what 'proof' means. Thirdly you haven't grasped that nurture is rooted in nature and therefore 'nurture vs nature' is not the straight-forward dialectic you imagine it to be.
1thousandways 1 year ago
@1thousandways No oeffese was meant to you. I would rather not speak to people who are aggresive and rude. Yes there are more than obvouse differences between men and women but many of these diff. are not radically real or grounded in the physical differences caused by nature. equal means much more than the same as. It's not a matter of wether it is right or not...it is a matter of acting in a way that affects the world the way you wish it to change. anyway please dont be unkind its annoying.
antiphony33 1 year ago
@1thousandways
I would ask you to explain what you mean by nurture being rooted in nature. I have a feeling I will disagree
angeltears87 1 year ago
@angeltears87 ok, fair enough. Everything is rooted in nature. Simple as that.
1thousandways 1 year ago
@1thousandways
Please support this assertion.
angeltears87 1 year ago
@angeltears87 Okely-dokely. There's three ways to make this point. Firstly the nurture of a child is primarily dictated by the nature of the human organism. Nurture of a small child is primarily about teaching him/her to walk, eat, speak, etc. You have to do this to nurture a child because the nature of the human organism dictates it. Other aspects of nurture are not dictated by nature quite as simply (as walking,etc) but they are dictated by nature none the less.
1thousandways 1 year ago
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1thousandways 1 year ago
@angeltears87 ... in nature. The point is that nurture (of children) is rooted in (human) nature. Therefore nurture is actually a sub-set of nature. Consequently to treat nature and nurture as opposites and create a dialectic between them is to view things in a skewed and misleading way.
1thousandways 1 year ago
@1thousandways
How you nurture your child is largely environmental however. I disagree with your premise from the beginning...
angeltears87 1 year ago
@angeltears87 With respect you do not disagree with me because in order to disagree with me you have to counter what I have said. All you have done is state the sentence "I disagree with your premise from the beginning".
1thousandways 1 year ago
@1thousandways
Yes. I don't have a position in this conversation. You are making assertions and until you can present a case for it. I am under no obligation to present a case for disagreeing. At this time I merely am unconvinced.
angeltears87 1 year ago
Interesting interview.
But what about the direct examples of gender deconstruction experimentation which failed?
The problem here, I think, is the term gender and sex are often confused. Usually at the convenience of an individual (or group) whose stability of reason is in a state of flux.
OniNoFro 1 year ago
because we all know the number of amazing new inventions created by women over the last 40 years... white out, is one. the self-cleaning house is the other.
landerzoo 1 year ago
Yeah this is just market anarchists pandering to the left.
IndividualAutonomy 1 year ago
@IndividualAutonomy
God damn it maybe I'll just turn gay eventaully
It may make everything easier.
TimothyBragan 1 year ago
Hey, I will take feminists over white nationalists who are masquerading as market anarchists any day.
Pentazoid111 1 year ago
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@Pentazoid111
I am not surprised!
IndividualAutonomy 1 year ago
There are huge differences between a man and a woman's standard brain.
Which doesn't mean at all that they will always have 100% standard brains of their respective sexes. Due to them being exposed to mothers hormones during pregnancy or to many other reasons, the fact is that the regular people use to have a mix of both gender's brains. It has actually being proven that homosexual and transgender people's brains usually function like the one of their opposite gender.
marvincontendo 1 year ago
@marvincontendo Look - I'm a gay man and I don't think or act anything like a woman (if there are such things as thinking and acting like a woman - which is what this podcast and book are all about), so you can ditch all that, it's bollocks. (And another thing: What's being homosexual got to do with being transgender? They're nothing to so with each other.)
namecyber 4 months ago
nature + norture.
both play a huge influence on that matter.
marvincontendo 1 year ago
@Lawsome101 What a placidargument. How on earth are ones else going to do these things? Have some professor from inner China to do it? Or shall we only study these things when people are not interested?
petkol 1 year ago
This somewhat reliable source claims a difference between the genders, apparently in the way we listen... (source: TED Talks - India)
Youtube keywords: Julian Treasure - Shh! Sound health in 8 steps
The claim is made within the first 5 minutes of the video and I'd really like to hear Stef's thoughts on it. Peace.
OregonCoastGhost 1 year ago
I have heard of the word tomgirl lol.
I've thought about this too much.
MULESLAX 1 year ago
I have heard of the word tomgirl lol.
I've thought about this too much.
MULESLAX 1 year ago
Sexism...
MULESLAX 1 year ago
wow! I never thought about this kind of stuff!
krychamin 1 year ago
When I was a youngster my sisters loved nothing more than smashing their heads through walls, whereas I was an extremely cuddly and smart little boy. Luckily my dad was a drywaller.
spamsponge 1 year ago
@Lawsome101 There were gender differences long before tv, propaganda, and government. It has been statism (feminism) that has warped our natural balance.
MoneyIsSilver 1 year ago
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The remark, your just like your dad or just like your mother often comes as a shock to us when we hear this statement however as our brains are biological computers that learn from external stimuli, whatever behaviour we observe we copy. All gender bias that exists among us is learned from our surrounding society, we can observe this through the vast differences in cultures around the world. Though western society is trying very hard to break the mould it will take a few generations yet.
frostyuk2007 1 year ago
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frostyuk2007 1 year ago
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frostyuk2007 1 year ago
@Lawsome101
.
Exceptions to the rule do not prove a thing.
Go out and look around. Girls will play with dolls, guys will make guns.
Are their exceptions? Of course. Do most behave within these norms?
.
Of course they do.
Knepperify1 1 year ago
@Knepperify1 Read the book.
namecyber 4 months ago
Hirsi Ali, Michelle Rhee, Dambisa Moyo.......stef, come on, there's plenty of smart atheist, or anti-union, or anti-statist women of color out there saying some pretty outspoken things....PLEASE have THEM ON YOUR SHOW!!!!!!
theherdmentality 1 year ago
Quick point. I think the word 'dandy' is the 'tomboy' equivalent for men. It's not related to sexual preference and it's not a negative label. Minor observation but important.
GaudierBrzeska 1 year ago
@GaudierBrzeska I like it!
namecyber 4 months ago
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F250badgirl 1 year ago
Of course there are differences between men and women. You must be blind not to see them. One has a dick, the other has a vagina, of course their brain will work a little bit different. I also want to remind you all that Women's Lib and feminism are designed and sponsored by the rockefellers, and quite successfully too. The family as a social unit is almost but wiped out in the western world. Male's masculinity is ridiculed and shunned, because you can't have freedom without warriors.
Kinkoyaburi 1 year ago
I covered a copy of Romeo and Juliet with a false cover when I was in high school to avoid ridicule. I was interested in Shakespeare's tragedy, but aware that it would cause (more) social problems for me at school. Path of least resistance.
fructoric 1 year ago
Perhaps Stef and this woman need to read up on who David Reimer was...
alique087 1 year ago 2
@alique087 who?
rayyf69 1 year ago
@Lawsome101
I'm sorry you feel disrespected Laws, but you need to go back and read my comment. What I am talking about is indisputable science..hormones affect the brain. Body and mind (or rather brain) are one for transgender people too.
Give a transgender person adrenaline, they will be in a certain state of mind,
melatonin, another, etc. *You* are being disrespectful. Reproduction has a huge effect on women, and they should be aware of postpartum depression, etc.
givebirthathome 1 year ago
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F250badgirl 1 year ago
Dagny Taggart is probably one of the best ideals for a woman. Not weak but still feminine.
Virtueman1 1 year ago
@Virtueman1 And Ellen Ripley and Lyra Belacqua :)
namecyber 4 months ago
Although there is alot of exaggerated interpretation of science, and culture can powerfully affect our biology, is eliminating gender actually a good thing? Ivan Illich wrote a book "gender" from a historical context, and came to the conclusion that as gender roles broke down in many societies, historically, the inequality and oppression of women *increased*.
givebirthathome 1 year ago
@givebirthathome I raised my daughter in NY's radical alphabet-city neighborhood, and plenty of my friends allowed their boys to wear long hair..and I don't think it crossed anyone's mind to even imagine boys would not play with dolls. I saw no particular "gender" in her at 20 months and I wasn't looking.
However, because I was child-rearing in a city , I got to see many children, and indeed, it did seem to me that on the average the girls spoke earlier and more clearly than the boys..
givebirthathome 1 year ago
This wasn't a "cultural stereotype" that I had ever heard..but the fact is my daughter spoke in clear complete sentences at 2, and I then began to notice that most of her little boy friends were still having a hard time making themselves comprehensible to adults at three.
But the most obvious biological difference in the brain I've experienced for myself. Women menstruate. Nobody culturally imposes this one women! I don't think anyone challenges the science on the hormonal rhythms underlying
givebirthathome 1 year ago
ovulation either. The relevance here is that menstruation doesn't just have to do with blood...it effects mental states. There is no "delusion" of gender there! Tell
me I'm having a delusion when I can't stand up because of the pain, or literally run a temperature (a brain-mediated phenomena) because of the hormones! There are no cultural stereotypes about female body temperature...and if you've got a thermometer and a friendly female, you can check this for yourself..you don't need scientific
givebirthathome 1 year ago
literature. And if you are sensitive and self-aware, you notice changes in your emotional state and cognitive abilities all through the month, that go far beyond any stereotype of bitchy menstruating women.
Because neurotic scientists are imposing their sexist ideas on their research is no reason to go to the opposite extreme and start talking about the "delusion" of gender...the body and mind are one. We already have all the evidence we need that there are brain differences in gender.
givebirthathome 1 year ago
Men's brains are bigger than women's :-)
libertopian 1 year ago
Interesting. I can't wait to read the book itself.
rivenrock 1 year ago
Question: from a strict materialist perspective why wouldn't there be a difference between men and women? There are marked differences between males and females of other species. Why not people? Taking this a step further, there are differences in talents and abilities in individuals. I'm not a psychologist or a psychiatrist, but I am educated and I am just not buying her argument.
steve0281 1 year ago 2
@steve0281 No you're wrong, for example all dogs (like jacks Russell's) can run as quick as greyhounds (If raised the same). Wait, what ? Funny how every single animal on the planet differs based on sex and breed, but when we come to humans were all the same, the rules just vanish. Not saying people shouldn't have equal opportunities, they should, but certain areas will always be dominated based on sex and race, FACT !
CoWalsh04 1 year ago
@CoWalsh04 I was thinking along those lines as well. Am I a bigot, sexist, homophobe, Islamophobe, climate change denier....?
steve0281 1 year ago
If men and women were really the same the statists wouldn't be putting female hormones is baby food, soda bottles and much more. Boys become more effete and then rationalize that effete nature in colorful ways, while women get breast cancer and rush through their possible child rearing ages. Girls reach child rearing early and then end it sooner, leaving the most women who "want it all" childless. The goal is depopulation, and feminism was invented by the statists.
HonourNet 1 year ago
Female emergent characteristics aren't going to appear until their hormones truly begin to work. Like 3 years of age.
< a year old - the child doesn't even have a self awareness yet.
True gender issues begin around 7 years of age for boys in my opinion. There are three critical periods: 3 years, 7 years, and 11 years of age. Trauma or deviant behavior will have a life long impact.
These seem more like the author's issues than a projected society. IMHO...lol
Nexus2Eden 1 year ago
I'm happy that you made this video on gender, it's a topic that isn't discussed near enough.
Agitpropist 1 year ago
If we have a stateless society, women will quickly go back to washing dishes and taking care of kids at home.
MoneyIsSilver 1 year ago
some things which interest me if they really are true or false
i have no doubts on testosterone effect but other things
men naturally excel at judging speeds ,trajectory's from reading maps at any angle (primal instinct) were women instead naturally excel with remembering fine density and digits and ! see more shades of red than men (nocturnal instinct) ?
okuma0kuma 1 year ago
There will always be more male geniusus and more male criminals.... males are very stratified. There are biological differences for sure
njedinjedi 1 year ago
Pre-ordered the paperback edition (I hate hardcover). A Mind of It's Own is one of my favorite books.
nass1 1 year ago
I agree with many of the ideas expressed here, however I have to strongly disagree with the whole idea of gender inequality as it exists today. The notion that "men are people and women are women" is outdated. One only has to witness the misandry expressed on many sitcoms and t.v. commercials to see the man displayed as the idiot moron, and the woman comes in to 'save the day' as the superior, intelligent and 'together' being.
raffiican 1 year ago 2
@raffiican Yeah - I second that. This idea of Misogyny being in play today... maybe among the 45 + group...but everyone under the age of 30 I know is so totally not engaged in that mentality.
They except homosexuals, races, genders as homogeneous. Christ everyone nowadays is bi-sexual or metro-sexual. lol Tattooed freaks. give me a break.
This reminds me of those people that can't let go of their education - and have to create an issue to be unique or acknowledged.
I know a lot of female Eng.
Nexus2Eden 1 year ago
Cordelia Fine's expertise is in ethics and psychology, so it appears her approach is far more about the fear of people misusing sex differences to prejudge capability by sex, a little like the Gattaca theme, rather than actually verifying whether those sex differences are actual. She is *concerned* about bias in scientists.
But her claim that observers of babies wouldn't be scrupulously blinded to the babies' sex sounds suspicious. I mean, come on.
KellyJones00 1 year ago 2
"Sex differences in human neonatal social perception" by Connellan, Baron-Cohen, et al. (Infant Behavior & Development 23 (2000) 113–118) tests neonatals on the day they're born to see if babies prefer a dangling mobile or a human face. Connellan was the human face: "Her hair was tied back, she wore no make-up or jewelry, and the face was positioned 20 cms above the subject. She adopted a positive, pleasant emotional expression, while remaining silent."
KellyJones00 1 year ago 2
... The results are that male neonatals spend more time on average (52 seconds compared to 46) looking at the dangling mobile, while female neonatals spend more time looking at the human face (49 seconds compared to 41 seconds).
If Fine claims that Connellan somehow corrupted the evidence, she needs to back it up. Simply suggesting that Connellan may have, isn't really enough.
KellyJones00 1 year ago 2
It has been said that giving women the vote is responsible for the rise of social welfare.
shaurz 1 year ago 2
@shaurz That is completely true. Coincidentally it is responsible for the fact that our civilization is no longer peaking.
jodark 1 year ago
@shaurz correct, for a lot of women have replaced a husband with the big daddy state.
HonourNet 1 year ago 2
You continue to supply very thought provoking videos on the topic of parenting, and the male role in that. I admire your kind manner, and the honorable way carry a conversation on about any topic. You help me develop my own way of letting go of prejudices in a very constructive way.
Xeogt 1 year ago
I think a sensitive man is called metro.
dragon8u 1 year ago 2
@dragon8u The term you are looking for is Mangina
HonourNet 1 year ago
It's amazing you can still get 'dislikes' on this! haha :D
jamespd1 1 year ago
Male and female brains are significantly physically different, so it's naive to think they can work in the same way. And it's not really a matter of "bad science", but bad popular writers with their bad interpretations of the science.
KevinSolway 1 year ago 2
Before people get too swept away with this video it would be worth also reading "As Nature Made Him: The Boy Who Was Raised as a Girl."
iwantenlightenment 1 year ago 2
Final.
I tend to believe the main (only?) role of men on this planet is to protect women, physically, financially, etc. And that's pretty much it. Women have inherited magical gifts from nature and we really ought to protect them. Agreed that women often show more integrity than men. Given. Sure women also probably work better than men. But then that's not the question. Women have inherited (whether we like it or not) a gift that men just can't duplicate. So any real equation has to start there.
marcabela 1 year ago
@marcabela The biggest gift women have is women's intuition - the ability to put two and two together and make five. ;-)
KevinSolway 1 year ago
@KevinSolway,
Yeah, and most like to think we actually have problems "now" with all of our bankers, just because they are "men", wait until the profession is lead mostly by women... ;)
Just teasing, just teasing. All in good fun.
Marc
marcabela 1 year ago 3
Cont'd.
Same for races in fact, I often find myself thinking that it's thanks to people like Richard Pryor or Eddie Murphy who so elegantly insisted by pointing out at some of the tiny weird differences here and there between races, oooooh white guys this, but ahhhh now black guys that, eeeeh and chinese fellow this, and making them all "cute" in our eyes calling for laughter which in turn creates this element of tolerance... Not convinced (jmho) all women really enjoy men not acting like bears.
marcabela 1 year ago
Interesting.
I have always thought that is was a romantic (more socialist?) approach, to believe that genders don't come with many eventual stereotypes and that not embracing them was the right thing to do. My own personal "non-documented" study (65+ countries) drove me to think that it was somewhat more "rational" to just allow ourselves to agree with 2M+ years of nature and how it decided to built two different ends, two different pieces to the puzzle we make, and beautify all the differences.
marcabela 1 year ago
i'm buying the book, and borgbrain moment--i'm digging into this topic for myself in therapy... i'm sure that's why you had this interview ;)
newjoiseyboy 1 year ago
It's sad; the only real barrier to becoming a parent is whether or not you can get laid; pretty poor litmus test if you ask me.
603881 1 year ago
To me this sound a bit like the old fashioned politically correct social exorcism, that has dominated and been the oppressive orthodoxy on universities since the 1960s, as a form of a cultural lag from the middle ages and the old jesuit method of fighting heresies and witchcraft. Those who disbelieve the orthodoxy that gender is a social construct, put them on a stake, and drive the devil out of them!
maganz 1 year ago
Given what we know about how non-human ape society works and how closely are related to them, Cordelia Fine has a very tough case to prove beyond criticisms of studies. I'm not yet convinced.
My little brother was given a makeup kit when he was 3 years old, and grew up to be quite masculine. And my mother discouraged me from buying G.I.Joe action figures, but I wanted them anyway. And my sister, growing up with the influence of two boys, chose Barbee over the toys of her brothers.
FlowCell 1 year ago
Hi Steph,
Regarding how the anthropomorphism within children's stories being depicted as male by default,with the exception of the emphasized weaker natured attributes of female depictions; I've never heard anyone mention why it is that the default gender of undesirable anthropomorphic characters in TV ads etc, is male as well. For instance: Germs, warts, roaches,mucus, toenail fungus, old mops,pain etc. ... What's your opinion on how that may influence how boys and girls view maleness? Thanks.
ProtoCosmos 1 year ago
@ProtoCosmos I beg your pardon ! I meant " Stef " I mistakenly called you " Steph" . Terribly sorry about that.
ProtoCosmos 1 year ago
Is there a woman to your liking that can handle a frank debate? Or must you come to the rescue and violate your own posturing at equality? I look forward to your reply and you know where to find me. Your guest was an example of deconstructionism that I have mentioned already.
HonourNet 1 year ago
As an anti-statist you should be able to see how feminism has ruined as much as it has helped, and your blind spot to how women prefer the big daddy state is as amazing. The state has given women the best of equality and the best of chivalry, while men continue to get the worst of both. I'm happily married and have kids. To debate you would mean a joust in the clouds between males, like animals, and not be a search for the truth, but you defending your herd of females followers.
HonourNet 1 year ago
good morning thx for sharing this informmation to the world. A man is just a women without emotion and breasts! And a woman is just a man that cares too much about things that can handel their own.
PoiGhost 1 year ago
Infants are more gender neutral and it is only when the hormones take over that differences are made more extreme and are even triggered into activation. Gandhi said those who go about just change by peaceful means are the best, those who go about just change by violence are SECOND best, and those who do nothing in the face of injustice are worst. Talking without action is effete and philosophers are male in brain and effete in action. You seem to want to cross the line.
HonourNet 1 year ago
Stef you do a good job flirting. You should do a video on flirting. This is one of your better videos, it's nice to see that energy in the video and to have a woman being interviewed for a change.
TeddyTheRationalist 1 year ago
Your other video answering emails was one of your best to date, as again it was down to earth and more practical than most. Your flaw is jousting in the clouds which is the curse of all philosophical obsessed people (which are almost all males). Ayn Rand wrote fiction, so where is the equal division of philosophical women philosophers? There isn't even 1 % of women in this field, instead we have gender studies, which could be called the studying of oneself and not the truth.
HonourNet 1 year ago
if you read judith butler, julia kristeva, et al, this book would never have had to be written and both ms. fine and stef would not have to wax surprise that gender differences are largely socially constructed
ChurchofMe88 1 year ago
As a father of two, a boy and a girl, I'm not quite sure I understand the problem. What's wrong with being a feminine girl or a masculine boy? I think my children would have more trouble in life if I raised my daughter to be masculine and my son to be feminine – or worse, raised them both to be asexual. I mean, they do have to live in this world and find a mate. I feel that part of my job is to teach them how to do that.
jgrutzik 1 year ago
lol on the comments. American PaleoLibertarialConservatives think they're oppressed because mainstream society is pressuring them to abandon their "Jati" values system. These are the same people who slobber all over Stephan's personal freedom message and incorporate it into their own philosophy, but they conveniently block out all the things they disagree with- (treat others responsibly, value community, children are also individuals, etc)
p717 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I didn't watch the video yet but is Stef and this woman claiming there's no biological difference in male/female brains?
alique087 1 year ago
Comment removed
alique087 1 year ago
Female artists and musicians are getting more general acceptance in general i think, like Lady Sov has a high status. :)
aghoranathi 1 year ago
@aghoranathi
Sorry, you can't mention artist and Lady Sovereign in the same sentence and expect to be taken seriously.
p717 1 year ago
@p717 I guess we have different tastes in music, also i was not expecting to be taken seriously, thanks for noticing.
aghoranathi 1 year ago
@aghoranathi
/sensitive
p717 1 year ago
Their are indeed cultural influences pertaining to gender & its good that these influences be examined & deficiencies confronted.
Culture is part of our human condition and it should evolve as we do.
But what has run afoul is the govt's intervention on cultural influences.
The govt. should protect the culture of its citizens. But instead our govt. seeks to control the culture.
The govt. has the absurd notion that it can control the human condition with the stroke of the legislative pen.
rllang01 1 year ago
This gave me some more brain food. Thank you.
MirageScience 1 year ago
As a father of 4 children, and an educator for the last 20 years, I feel that the only reason why some people would imagine that gender carachteristic of people are mainly socially acquired is because they have not experienced raising a larger amount of children.
A lot of masculine behaviours are enforced by the desire of women. Women are attracted to men who they admire, and men are attracted to women that demonstrate health and youth (beauty). Boys will be eager and girls will be pretty.
geraldcaron 1 year ago
As a stay-at-home dad, I agree the bias exists. I see lots of funny looks and questions like, "Are you spending the day with daddy?"
Remembering just now separated I felt from my own father, I'm glad that my kids will know "daddy" as a real human being, not as this machine that I see on weekends or nights when he's tired.
CurtHowland 1 year ago 7
@CurtHowland I think what you're doing is magnificent, what an amazing step forward! :)
stefbot 1 year ago
@stefbot It was, thank you.
Last week the wife handed me a separation/divorce "agreement" that puts the kids into perpetual day-care, and requires me to pay for half of it.
She thinks she's being kind by forcing them into "private" school.
The lawyers have it at the moment, it's going to cost a fortune. I'm asking for adjudication rather than a court.
I guess going to PorcFest with our son without getting her permission first, while she was in China with our daughter, was the last straw.
CurtHowland 1 year ago
@CurtHowland That is great that you want to have a real relationship with your kids. There are some people who take for granted their parents
ellimist6 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@CurtHowland Stay at home dad = someone too lazy to go out and work , but more than willing to take hand outs from the state , or have their other half work to provide for them.
Using the excuse of wanting to be there for the children as the reason for not working .
At least get a part time job
therealdeal499 1 year ago
@therealdeal499 "someone too lazy to go out and work"
Obviously you've never taken care of two kids, or even one, and the household.
You're speaking from blatant ignorance.
"but more than willing to take hand outs from the state"
And you're a damned fool, too. Please, tell me what handout I've taken? Name one, I'll apologize.
Ah, maybe you think my wife doesn't work. That's it, you ASS-U-ME-d.
CurtHowland 1 year ago
Now Stef, I've got less than no ability to analyze the effects of childhood on the adult, but to me it appears as though the feminists are the ones who are making a presupposition that genders are, on the aggregate, equally able to 1. provide value to employers 2. succeed in academia in every area of knowledge 3. manage a network of personal relationships etc. etc.
Given the vast difference in genes and hormones, equality seems a much more ridiculous presumption than large variation.
bwelkk 1 year ago
I also read and noticed that little boys are more interested in moving objects, and girls are more interested in people.
PersianPaladin 1 year ago
@PersianPaladin You should read Dr Fine's book, the studies were very bad...
stefbot 1 year ago
Only have time to listen to 1:st 17 min, as a parent and having worked with children I recognise and agree with everything so far. I will definitly get the book, thanks Stef for adressing this subject.:)
thegalwegian 1 year ago
Women and men ARE different by design.
See how emotional women get lol
PersianPaladin 1 year ago
@opheliaic I can agree with you on that, ye.
CoWalsh04 1 year ago
This was a fantastic video. Thank you for this interview Stef.
Stargazer5781 1 year ago
I don't buy this because of publication bias. I'm pretty sure that thousands of years of evolution hardwired out brains for different tasks. As a gay guy I'm pretty sure that masculinity/femininity personality differences are neurologically hardwired because of how I personally prefer to exist. The idea of a blank slate I think is very silly and doesn't give nearly enough credit to darwinian trends upon the brain.
Anarchyland2 1 year ago
OMG I never ever thought Stef would buy into cultural marxism, wow. OK I'm going upstairs now to get ready for work. I'm going to put on my wife's; panties, bra, dress and high heals, put on; lip stick, eye liner and make up and head for the building site (I'm in construction) I mean if anyone out their thinks men and women won't differ based on different sex needs to get their head checked. Yes of course environment play a factor, but men and women will always differ.
CoWalsh04 1 year ago
@CoWalsh04 i don't think you should do construction in high heels, that's dangerous
gradiu3rox 1 year ago
@gradiu3rox Are you trying to say a 'man' can't do the same or as good a job (In construction) with high heels on as a woman can ?
CoWalsh04 1 year ago
@CoWalsh04 I did not once hear Stef claim that there was no difference between the sexes, only that "gender roles" are very much a part of cultural conditioning. Ex: You used putting on make-up as a specifically female trait and yet there are cultures where it is the men who decorate themselves in order to attract women, like the Wodaabe peoples of Niger. In the West, building muscle, wearing toupees, etc.. serve the same purpose for men. It is all semantics. It is all based on culture.
Marchije 1 year ago 4
@Marchije OK can I move to the Niger and were my wife's; panties, bra, dress and high heels, plus wear; lipstick, mascara and put a body wave in my hair. That would be fine ? OK I get it now. What culture would it be OK for me to wear my wife's clothes ? So basically were all nuts (bigots). Everyone can be tranny one day and something different the next.
CoWalsh04 1 year ago
@CoWalsh04 Yeah. You got it. That's exactly what I was saying: You are a nutty bigot who should become a tranny and move to Niger. O.o
Marchije 1 year ago