American canine-capitalism is a classic Ponzi pyramid scheme, piling debts and looting the world and American younger generations dry with no way out of it, but a worldwide war over debts and obligations that their forefathers had passed down to them. WAKE THE FUCK UP YOU PEOPLE!
Milton Friedman supply side of money economic theory, increase supplies of money through the Fed, enabled the US economy to grow 3x from $5 trillion GDP in 80's to just under $15 trillion today. I don't agree with MF and I do suspect that Fed printed at least 10x money supply to grow x amount of annual GDP grow, which means there are at least $150 trillion USD in the world today, and this will come back to haunt US later.
False econ theories do take off if enough people buying into it.
No one can or wish to oppose real science that adhere to the laws of nature, because one would do that at one's peril. E.g. An aviator should never ignore the law of gravity or he shall eat the dirt, crash and possibly die. On the other hands, economic is not a real science because economists couldn't agree among themselves, e.g. the lunatic Austrian "economic laws" are ignored by every major economies, and they had 3 decades of explosive growth.
This lunatic @TeaParty1776, reminds me of all the lunatic dead fascist dictators of 20th century, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Saddam, and Qaddafi, etc. They died taking their dogmas with them to the grave insisted that they were the only one that was right, and the "hero" of the people.
My "selfish rational morality" impulse got over my better judgement, I allowed myself to imagine this lunatic @TeaParty1776 at the noose saying "I was right, and all I said (selfishly) is for your own good!" LMAO
@chapsroc You remind me of potatoes. Therefore you are a potato.
Selfishness requires knowledge and selfless brutes dont know how to live. They literally dont know which is why they want to sacrifice people, like a primitive tribe throwing virgins into volcanos. Man needs objective principles to live in concrete reality. Reason, purpose, self-esteem are the basic moral values. Morality is about your life and happiness, not a command to destroy yourself. Read Ayn Rand.
This lunatic @TeaParty1776 seems to have this crazy idea of talking in a loop over and over again, regardless of how many people have demonstrated his fallacy, and by repeating his own words over over repeatedly, somehow "win" the argument. That's lunatic "rationality", indeed. LMAO!.
LOL! For some reason, this lunatic @TeaParty1776 reminds me of Oprah (with apology to Oprah for this unfair comparison to a lunatic nutball) It must be all these book reading recommendation that this lunatic is typing up here. LOL! Like this old whore of lunatic @TeaParty1776 has any credibility. LMAO!
@chapsroc Youre not actually focusing on the content of my posts. You must have learned reading by the Progressive Look-Say method of sensing word shapes. Try thinking about my ideas. Radical, dude!
@chapsroc Gold is good as money, not as an end in itself. Only life is an end in itself. Only you can give yourself happiness. Other people can give you happiness only if you rationally evaluate them. Irrational people cannot be happy by a rational standard. Fraud makes you dependent upon other's ignorance. How will being king of a society of fools benefit you?
If "With Capitalism, price will decrease" is a science, than "free market" profit seeking market forces would dictate that every one just buy and hold on to gold BECAUSE EVERYTHING ELSE WILL LOST VALUE OVER TIME. All investment in other productions (beside gold mining) would dry up and stop, and every one would horde gold and eat gold? That is an extreme case of fraud economic lunatics!
@chapsroc Even w/decreasing prices, man needs a constant supply of goods to live. Why would you buy gold instead of food if you were starving? Economics is about the economy as as an ideological whole, not Pragmatically isolated parts, isolated from causes and effects. Mainstream economics is pseudo-scientific, Pragmatist chaos, good only for increasing govt power in the long run. Markets Dont Fail-Brian Simpson.
Here's another case of extreme perversion in the field of fraud Economic "science".
A dogmatic loonatic, @TeaParty1776 wrote "With capitalism, price will decrease" which is a wishful advocate of deflation. This lunatic claims that he is the "pure" economist of pure "capitalism." Today, economic schools across the globe and policy makers in major economies generally recognize that deflation is outright dangerous that can lead to market sudden collapse. Science of one man vs the globe?
@chapsroc Mainstream economics created govt economic policy. Why defend it? See Ayn Rand's, _The Fountainhead_, for a story about intellectual independence. See the American Revolution for the reality of intellectual independence. Modern mainstream intellectuals are corrupt, eg, our New Left President who was a professor of Constitutional law and is now destroying economic progress in favor of socialism and environmentalism. Our culture is corrupt. We need new intellectuals, like the Founders.
@chapsroc Fascism is socialism of regulations, not govt ownership, created by timid liberals (and conservatives) who fear consistent socialism. In capitalism, man's mind is most important. Money is a mere tool. Yes, the purpose of economics is material values, the material values despised by liberals and conservatives in favor of spirit split from the material universe. Man is a mind/body unity, not a cosmic freak.
Economic is not a science, it is a fraud. It is a scam to exploit Man's greed and fear.
If it is a science, then economists would rarely be wrong, a case in point is this video.
Here was Milton Friedman, an economist, a Nobel Laureate in economics, explaining the "rationality" for the Federal Reserve Banks System. Was he right? If so, then von Mises (another economist with opposing ideology) must be wrong.
Later, MF said FED was a bad idea. Flip-floping is NOT science?
@chapsroc Austrian economics is rarely wrong, unlike Keynes, monetarism, because it studies individual choices as basic, not a floating abstraction called "aggregate production." Economics In One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt is pop Austrian economics, easy to read.
Science is the product of man's mind, not a divine revelation. Errors are part of learning anything. Be brave. Look reality straight in the eye and march forward. Man's mind created America, iPads, and pizza. No problemo!
@TeaParty1776 , talking shits is lunatic, go to Austria, they are in trouble, the economy is in shamble, and the country is sliding into a one party dictatorship. But then again, your lunatic "selfish rational morality" would probably just play into the hands of the status quo. Why don't you just save your stupidity, and kill yourself!
@chapsroc Austrian economics is an intellectual category, not a location. Most Austrian economists now are Americans. Do you oppose the Austrian respect for individual choice?
Selfishness in Europe?! Europeans are spiritual serfs, comfortable to mindlessly obey. Selfishness is objective, based on man's mind and its power to transform nature into a human environment. You collectivists give society too much importance.
The politicians and even corporate rank and files are all pimps of the bankers.
By way of illustration:
Mr. Smith goes to Washington to serve his country... When he got to D.C. he bought a nice apartment from a "newly" acquainted friend. And suddenly he was "educated" by his good friends on how to make money "legally" such as finding the "right" investment adviser at the "most opportunistic time" to make himself millions... Success at last, now he is one of them, or be "voted out" by neg ad.
Once they taste the "sweetness of success" the politicians now have fear in their hearts, the fear of losing their newly acquired wealth, and they know who are their bosses now -- the bankers and corporate big monies. They know the "Super PAC" and corporate media can turn against them and get them vote out of office. American politicians, both left and right, but especially the right-wing of the Republican party, are shameless preaching the "talking points" of bankers and big corporations.
@chapsroc In a dispute between an armed politician and an unarmed businessman, the politician always wins, despite Marx's mystical belief in the alleged political power of money. Politicians can steal money from businessmen w/laws. Businessmen cannot steal from politicians.
@TeaParty1776 , so don't be a loser, arm yourself with gold machine guns, and "selfish rational morality", build a few more "nuke bombs" with 100.01% pure gold (LOL) and go fight those fascist politicians. Or save yourself the stupidity, JUST KILL YOURSELF! LMAO!
@chapsroc He went to Washington because you voted for govt to steal money from business. Bankers select the most profitable investments, indirectly benefiting you. Politicians select the most politically powerful investments, indirectly hurting you.
@chapsroc Politicians have the police power of the state to force obedience from unarmed bankers. Banking may be the most regulated, subsidized industry. Search online. Try starting a bank without bended knee to govt. There is little freedom in banking. In the 19th century, states forced banks to deposit money in state accounts, allegedly to protect depositors. Would you be shocked, shocked to know that states spent the money instead of raising taxes? A collectivist protection.
@TeaParty1776, THIS IS END OF YOUR TEA-BAGGER SCUM SPECIES.
1776 was the year you barbaric Anglo-fites declared "independence" from the "tyrannical" British Empire that helped slaughtered the Native American Indians to help your barbaric genocidal ancestors steal the Natives' lands.
Today, Gold or fiat money, American canine-capitalism is finished! Yeah, you can start WW3 with China and Russia, but US will be come out as loser, the Hitler of WW3. You're finished, Tea-bagger FUCKTARD!
@chapsroc I agree. What our ancestors did to the natives they found in America was despicable. Add to that the destruction our industry wreaks upon the land, the "commoditization" of every natural resource and the attitude that everything as far as the eye can see is ours for the taking is short-sighted, unsustainable and, truly, unforgivable. We are an infestation on our Mother Earth and we should be dealt with.
@TeaParty1776 , the ultimate act of selfishness is .... WOULD SOMEONE PUT A BULLET TO THIS FUCKTARD TEA-BAGGER (a.k.a. TeaTarty1776 disease) YOUR HEAD, TO END YOUR MENTAL PARASITIC DISEASE! please? LAMO!
@chapsroc It must be horrible to discover that sacrifice is for losers and geeks like Jesus (mysticism) and Hitler (subjectivism). Step up to a rational way of life!
@TeaParty1776 , did you kill your children and old parents yet? Practice your "selfish rational morality", listen to your own psychopath advice, no one ever make profit out of raising children. KILL YOU CHILDREN AND OLD PARENTS! Tea-bagger fucktard!
@TeaParty1776 Well, that line of reasoning is about as thoughful and persuasive as your previous ones. Thank you for your suggestions. Maybe its about time you moved on. I don't see much support for your positions here and I have no further desire to communicate with you.
@JamesJSimpson , you're a good man, there are still hope in world because of caring and conscientious men and women like you. That tea-bagger asshole is just non-sense. He is either a paid shill of the rich or a psycho.
@chapsroc Some people just like to read their own writing. . . . . no matter how absurd, and don't care about whose feelings they hurt. My take on TeaParty is that he/she about half understands about half of what he/she watches on You Tube and takes no time to do any actual research. Then when someone comes along who has done research and suggests where to find more information to clear up their misconceptions, he/she gets embarrassed and lashes out. Insecure little cowards, mostly.
@JamesJSimpson , I have not followed your posts so I don't know your positions on current world economic crises or your take on classical economic theories. But I suggest you don't waste too much time with the tea-bagger. He is as dogmatic as a pope is Catholic. You're absolutely right, HE DOESN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND HIS OWN WORDS.
Ex. his "rational selfishness is morality" If so, he should kill all his Children and grand parents to save money. No one ever made money raising children.
@chapsroc Selfishness is a product of reason, not emotion. Reason puts values into the context of one's life as a whole, not some Pragmatically, subjectively, hedonistically isolated part. Conventional selfishness is based on arbitrary desire, not the objective needs of man's life. Merely because you want something does not make it objectively good for your life. You cant mindlessly drive a car or guide your life. Knowledge, not emotion, is the guide. Morality is a guide to life and happiness.
@TeaParty1776 , Listen to your own "gold prophesies" and "selfish rational morality", go kill your wife the old bitch is no good, and make a fake dole out of fake gold, try to screw that cold metal at night or day! STFU, you lunatic tea-bagger fucktard!
@JamesJSimpson , those dogmatic "free market" private enterprise rationality nuts are as "rational" when it comes to greed and money as a sex addict with a naked under age girl.
The Fed was created by the "selfish rationality" of bankers and big oil (Rockefeller) tycoons of the time. So now we have a "counterfeit" money printing Fed, so screamed the "selfish rational" nuts. LMAO!
@chapsroc The Fed was sold to Americans as morally necessary to the alleged general welfare. If that collectivist ideal was not substituted for individual rights, it would never have become law. The motives of business are not historically important. Ideas determine history and the ideal of sacrifice has been regaining cultural influence since its low point in 1776. See the timid Republican support for capitalism and the passionate Democratic support for sacrifice. See Weimar Germany.
@TeaParty1776 , you like gold so much, why don't make weapons out gold and go on a suicidal missions against the government and its military? Go kill yourself, lunatic, tea-bagger fucktard!
@chapsroc There is no value IN (intrinsic to) gold. Gold is objectively valuable as judged by man's mind focused on the reality of man's life as a whole. Gold is impractical as a weapon except that a bar of gold heaved at a selfless person's head may have an interesting effect.
@TeaParty1776 , not man's mind, its your psychopath fixation on gold lunatic mind. Since you like gold so much, why don't split open your head and take out that stupid brain of yours and replace it with gold chips. Go ahead, kill yourself!
Our federal government reminds me of the broken vending machine in a store that everyone keeps hopefully dropping their coins into under the watchful eye of the proprietor who stands by, knowing full-well that the machine is broken. But rather than hang an "out of order" sign on it, he maintains his vigilance ONLY to prevent anyone from damaging it before he can empty out all the coins at the end of the day. The Proprietor in my analogy is the Federal Reserve Banking system. End the Scam!
Friedman evades the cause of bank runs: central banks, ie, socialism, counterfeiting money and bank accounts to pay for war & welfare w/o direct taxes. This counterfeit encourages bad investments which fail because there is not enough savings for real, good investments. The Fed was created to bail out losers created by pre-Fed counterfeiting by the Progressives in the late 19th to early 20th centuries. Production requires market money and banking. Socialist money, banking is destructive.
@TeaParty1776 People do not realize the cutting of interest rates in the late 1920's to encourage people to borrow and invest in the stock market, which caused a huge bubble. After the crash, the DOW was down year to year around only 20 points before the run on the market. Sounds familiar to the tech stock and housing bubbles. Cheap money, people projecting the Dow to hit 100,000, they just forgot about one little thing...production of actual goods
@JamesJSimpson Bernanke said the Fed didnt create enough "money," allegedly causing the GD. So Im unsure what Friedman said. However, shortly prior to dying, he advocated capitalist money and banking and abolishing the Fed.
@TeaParty1776 The fec actually contracted the money supply by more than 30% in the months after Black Tuesday, thereby exacerbating the money shortage and worsening the depression. The money that was thus removed did not simply disappear. It fattened the Banksters' wallets at the expense of the common man. The whole system is fraudulent and designed to create debt and inflation. Via "rate adjustments" the Banksters work the system like an old pump.
@JamesJSimpson Depression is the necessary, unavoidable result of money and credit inflation and the resulting asset bubbles. Booms are bad. Busts are good. Resources must be reallocated back to sustainable production. Yes, banks get richer but the Fed has been morally justified as subsidizing the middle and poor classes helping the economy for all. Morality trumps money. But govt should not sacrifice some to subsidize others. Capitalism is properly selfish, with no sacrifice.
@TeaParty1776 , you tea-bagger scumback, talking out of your ass again. FED's trillion goes to the banksters at zero interest rates, and they use those money to bet on derivatives and to sell credit default swaps to risky entities and/or sovereign debts, etc. Those derivatives produce no jobs, no real macroeconomic benefits, it's worse than Las Vegas casino which at least has some trickle down effects of low paying jobs.
You tea-bagger lying parasites are just talking shits out of your ass!
@chapsroc The Fed must be abolished. Money and banking must be returned from politics to the market where production, not pressure group subsidies, is the goal. In that context, the financial industry will invest in production, not govt asset bubbles. Finance is the most important part of a money economy. It directs resources to the industries and firms most likely to profit. Your material well-being depends on the independent judgments of financiers. Don't chain them to politics.
@TeaParty1776 I disagree that inflation is either necessary or unavoidable. Inflation results from the injection of fiat money for which there is no corresponding value created. It dilutes the savings and investments of everyone who was already in the economic market prior to that injection of "funny money". He who controls the money supply controls inflation and deflation and they pump it like a water pump.
@JamesJSimpson Inflation is necessary, unavoidable in a politically controlled economy.
Its rare and brief in capitalism because market commodities, eg, gold, silver, become money. Inflating private banks would have insufficient market money to redeem their paper. They would go bankrupt w/no bailouts. The much more capitalist 19th century US had declining prices and increased production. FDR, Nixon split gold from the market, causing misleading investment signals.
@TeaParty1776 The Federal Reserve System is designed to pump money out of the economy and into the hands of the owners of the Federal Reserve System. The Fed essentially creates money out of thin air and RENTS it to our government, with interest.
@JamesJSimpson The Fed is a govt agency regardless of any dishonest laws. It was created so private banks would have (counterfeit) reserves as basis for cheap loans to govt (war, welfare) and "nationally important" businesses. This occurred pre-Fed by various agencies that, like the Fed, caused booms, busts. The Fed was supposed to cause a sustainable boom w/constant monetary, credit inflation. History of Money, Banking in the US-M. Rothbard. Read critically.
@TeaParty1776 BULLSHIT! HERE AR THE OWNERS OF THE FED: $1. ROTHSCHILD Banks of London and Berlin $2. Lazard Brothers Banks of Paris $3. Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy $4. Warburg Bank of Hamburg and Amsterdam $5. Lehman Brothers of NY $6. Kuhn, Loeb Bank of NY (Now Shearson American Express) $7. Goldman, Sachs of NY $8. National Bank of Commerce NY/Morgan Guaranty Trust (J. P. Morgan Bank - Equitable Life - Levi P. Morton) $9. Hanover Trust of NY (Rockefellers & Chase)
@JamesJSimpson Youre begging the question of the real owners. The fact that a piece of paper says banks own the Fed is as important as the rights in the Soviet and Iranian constitutions. The Fed was created by govt, its director appointed by govt, its rules made by govt and its actions necessarily support the govt. Lacking a rational philosophy of history, you fearfully focus on enemy tribes, like any primitive savage in a jungle. Ideas cause history. Ominous Parallels-Leonard Peikoff.
@chapsroc Moral values are of man's life as whole, not a part isolated from the whole. Gold is valuable only if it furthers man's life as judged by man's mind. Your selflessness is immoral, a guide to suffering and death.
@TeaParty1776 , gold will further your death, for sure, but since you like gold so much, why don't you prove me wrong by making gold droplets and pretend they as medicine that will "further your life". Take a handful of gold droplets and kill yourself!
@chapsroc Furthering one's life requires focusing mind onto concrete reality, not mystical or subjectivist pretending.
Youre getting hysterical. Close your curtains so the neighbors wont call the police. And take your hand out of your pants. Your keyboard will get sticky.
Why should I believe you? I have an open mind but, I hope, not an empty one. Please impress me with your knowledge of facts and I'll be better disposed to evaluate your claims. Who was present, and WHY, at the meeting where the Fed was devised? Who organized that meeting? Why? Who was Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild? Who were his sons? What did they do for a living? Can you answer any or all of these questions? If not, please don't lecture me until you can.
@JamesJSimpson Dont believe me. The facts are publicly available to active minds. Your questions are Marxist trivia. If Joe Schmoo started the Fed with the Illuminati and the Devil Himself, they would still need ideas to think about it. Political ideas come from intellectuals, not businessmen who, conventionally, are anti-intellectual. Mega-billionaires Buffet & Gates follow the extreme egalitarianism of leftist Harvard philosopher, John Rawls (Theory Of Justice). Philosophy rules!
@TeaParty1776 I agree the facts are publicly available and a grasp of them would benefit you immensely. But you cannot be bothered with facts because they do not support your tirade of philisophical catch-phrases that you spew without any inkling as to their meaning. So enjoy your soapbox and don't bother to reply to me any more as I will not read anything else you write.
@TeaParty1776 The Government then transfers that "magic" or "fiat" money into the commercial banking system. The commercial banking system then inflates that money further via the fractional reserve banking system that permits the banks to lend 9 times as much money as they have in depositors' funds. thereby creating more "fiat money" against which the banks charge interest and if the agreed payments against that loaned money are not made the bank forecloses on the secured property.
@TeaParty1776 And since the money never even existed before the bank loaned it, they are essentially charging interest on money that only exists on the books of the bank. They create it out of thin air and then charge interest on it and this is completely fraudulent and a hidden tax on everyone's savings. The FED has to go.
@TeaParty1776 See The Creature from Jekyll Island on You Tube if you are unwilling to accept my word for it. In fact, please don't accept my word for it. If yhou're going to comment about inflation or the Fed you'd might as welll have correct information yourself.
@JamesJSimpson Ideas, not economics, causes history. The Fed was sold with altruism and collectivism as a way to end the destruction from prior intervention w/more intervention. Govt force, not unarmed businessmen, caused this problem. Govt wanted to pay its bills w/o angering taxpayers. Thus unbacked paper money. See Richard Salsman's two books. Yaron Brooks online articles, lectures.
@JamesJSimpson Depression and monetary and credit deflation are the real, unavoidable effects of govt-created money & credit inflation and the resulting, unsustainable, asset bubbles. Govt shifts production from market to politics. This uses limited resources for goods and services that individual consumers dont want to buy with their own money. Those subsidized industries eventually fail when the destructiveness of continued inflation is obvious. Money, Banking & Business Cycle-Brian Simpson
Q: If the reason for the run on the bank in the first place was because people wanted their money back, how will the Fed's action to "deal with this problem of the run on the banks" actually benefit US?? How does diluting everyone's money, devaluing their life savings, help anyone but the banks? For doesn't this allow the banks to avoid liquidating their investments of the depositors' money, investments that obviously are more profitable to Banks than the paltry depositor interest payments?
@JamesJSimpson Jesus Christ, they fed LOANS the banks the money. The WHOLE FUCKING POINT is we don't want to force the banks to liquidate their assets.
"how will the Fed's action to "deal with this problem of the run on the banks" actually benefit US??"
When the Fed didn't act in the 1930s and thousands of banks collapsed and the money supply was reduced by one-third and unemployment hit 25%, how did that benefit US?
Let me see if I've got this right: When the Federal Reserve steps in to prevent the disastrous consequences of customers' run on the bank it does so by printing "funny" money that has no corresponding value in goods or services in the economy. The funny money dollars can only draw value from the "old" dollars already in circulation. It's like adding water to soup: it waters down the economy and it weakens the economy and robs value from everyone's savings. Sound about right?
@greg55666 How can money, real or counterfeit, cause production unless there is prior production? Would inflation cause a stone-age economy like Afghanistan to be industrialized. Real money (gold, silver, etc) coordinates production but counterfeit blinds investors to the most profitable production. Eg, we have excess houses, China has ghost _cities_.
@TeaParty1776 Listen, I'm going to explain something to you that you will not hear anywhere else: paper money and gold function in exactly the same way. Neither one has any intrinsic value. The ONLY value of either is its value as trade. The purpose of money is to allow easier trade across wider groups of people. It doesn't matter if it's made of gold or door knobs. One advantage gold had back in the day is it is harder to counterfeit--even that is not true anymore.
@greg55666 There are no intrinsic values. Gold has objective value because man's mind identifies its properties as valuable for trading and trade as furthering man's life. Man's mind has not identified paper as valuable for trading, thus legal tender laws force the use of paper that people would not choose to use. Will you trade your gold for my paper? Paper is good for socialists who pretend that socialism is low cost. Paper encourages unsustainable investments which fail, causing depression.
@TeaParty1776 , you fucktard can't speak about "Man's mind", a mentally retard tea-bagger like you need your fucktard mind seen by a shrink.
"selfish rational morality" walk the talk, dumbfuck: Go kill your children and save money to pay your shrink's fee and insurance rate hike. You are a waste product of freak nature. Since you're just a pile of shits, your offspring are just more shits, over supply of shits is bad investment. Kill your children, save $ for your selfish enjoyment.
@TeaParty1776 , you're crazy, go kill yourself for your "selfish rational morality". No one give a fuck about what you are saying, you're just torturing yourself by talking narcissistic shits inside your painful asshole! A "selfish rational moralist" whatever the fuck you meant by that no one cares, just go kill yourself, and spare yourself the embarrassment and pain.
@TeaParty1776 Thank you. I'm glad you don't make the ridiculous claim that gold has intrinsic value. Now, unfortunately, your new version is dumber than the old one. Of course "our minds" have identified paper money with value--just last night I bought a bottle of soda for two pieces of paper. Would I trade my gold for your money? Of course! How much are you offering? This is such an idiotic conversation it is difficult to have with a straight face.
@greg55666 If gold was subjectively valuable, it would have no real properties for trade, ie, valuable on the market (decoration) prior to its use as money, rarity, durability, divisibility, transportability, fungible (each piece is like other pieces). These real properties are identified, not created, by man's mind, and evaluated as furthering man's life by a rational standard. Objective value is not intrinsic value. See Ayn Rand's "What Is Capitalism."
@greg55666 Continuing govt inflation decreases paper's value and increases gold's value. Today's US dollar is worth .0001 of a 1776 dollar. See online charts. $300 bought a car in the 1920s but only a small repair job now. So much for paper. Your faith in govt is short-range, sentimental, Pragmatist hogwash.
@jimmyrtle Here is why they are so dumb. I owe $100K in school loans. Which would I rather use to pay it back, good thick wholesome soup, or water? Water obviously. Please, government, add more water to the economy. They don't understand how inflation functions. (Then again, they have trouble putting their pants on in the morning.)
@jimmyrtle Are you talking about fed loans? Of course. The truth is even the water analogy is dumb, because the economy is a ship--we all float up and down together. If a car goes from $5000 to $10,000, then our wages will too.
@greg55666 , there is something wrong with water/ship analogy...
Try fish, non-native artificial game fish and bait fish. The people of the mass are bait fish;
big corporations are large game fish such as large bass, pikes, walleyed, etc.,
Park and game wardens, biologists are the economists and "professionals" who serve the government that answer only to lake owners (bankers) who makes money off the hardcore fishermen (the greedy idiots who worship and slave to money).
@chapsroc , The economy, the whole globe now, is one big brutally fake scam, artificially managed and manipulated by the bankers and their big corporate elites cronies.
@chapsroc Well, I'm not sure that is what is wrong with the analogy, you're talking about something completely different. But yes, the problem with the system is money and corporations. There's nothing inherently wrong with government, the problem is corruption. We have to get money out of politics. Of course these idiots somehow separate government from corporations, as though corporations are inherently good, and the only problem is that politicians are corrupt! It's idiotic.
@greg55666 , oh, I was referring to your analogy of "the economy is like a ship, ... if car price went up from 30k to 100k, so will our wages... we rise and fall together." It doesn't reflect reality. Not only wages are stagnant for last decade or so, but jobs disappeared to oversea factories. The top 1% made more billions in last 2 decades than all of preceding 50 years combined. Meanwhile, the middle classes are squeezed with additional rings of expenses, and taxes that put them in debts.
@jimmyrtle You mean the stimulus? I don't think you're right about the $16 trillion--I believe that is the current size of the debt. The stimulus wasn't nearly that big--neither was TARP. The GM loan was paid back quickly, with interest. TARP is mostly paid back, I believe; the problem is that the banks are acting worse now than they did before the bailout. But the $16 trillion is all the Bush tax cuts, the wars, and welfare/unemployment rises caused by the economic crisis (Bush's).
@JamesJSimpson Its worse than mere inflation. The Fed's funny money and funny bank accounts lower interest rates. Lower interest rates affect producers' goods more than consumers' goods. Business is mislead and encouraged to invest in more factories, raw materials, machines, labor, etc. But there is no real savings for investments. Consumers are consuming, not saving. But the phony economy booms, eg, stocks, dot.coms, houses, etc. The bubble bursts. Capitalism is blamed. More inflation. Whee!
@TeaParty1776 See _Human Action_ by Ludwig von Mises, an "Austrian" economist, ignored by mainstream quacks, who predicted the Great Depression by noting that roaring 1920s technology and stable prices was a contradiction. Tech lowers prices. Thus, the Fed must be inflating. Austrians also predicted our current mess. See Brian Simpson's, "Money, Banking & The Business Cycle" (Ayn Rand Bookstore).
Comsmic Fork does not have a clue. The real truth is that the public has voluntarily put themselves into debt. And they vote for libs in state and local govt's which spend every dollar they get from us. And the libs have attempted to get rid of poverty buy taking from taxpayers and giving the $ to others. So now we are 15 trill in the hole and poverty is the same as it was when Johnson and libs and Rhino's raided the social security fund.
@himsil You say "the gov'ts which spend every dollar they get from us." What you mean is "the gov'ts spend every dollar WE get from us." We are borrowing and spending our own money. Poverty is the same as it was because you continue to support republicans, who take money from the 99% to give to the wealthiest.
@marketanarchist2011, the general idea is that it encourages saving, which encourages price drops (to entice buyers), which further encourages saving (why buy now, when it'll be cheaper in a week?), and so on. Follow the logic and it leads to a slow down in production (since demand drops), which raises unemployment and further diminishes demand.
This vicious cycle is why (most) economists favor a low, steady inflation (say 3% per year) rather than get to close to negative territory (deflation).
@grantcivyt Saving and only savings increases production from a hand-to-mouth economy. Socialism destroys savings for consumption. Marx hated _Capitalism_, ie, producers goods and long-range investment for spontaneous creativity (not production)
in the workers paradise. We are headed back from industrialism to hunting-gathering. Progressive? Steve Jobs was progressive. Obama is reactionary.
@TeaParty1776 Can you elaborate on what you mean when you say savings increases production? Decreased demand for goods, which is the implication of augmented savings, would tend to depress prices and prompt a corresponding decrease in supply to match. In order to decrease supply, production would fall.
Decreased demand for consumers' goods frees resources for producers' goods which produce more, better and cheaper consumers' goods. Economic progress needs long-range planning, not merely production for immediate consumption. Mainstream economics is Pragmatist, lurching from immediate situation to immediate situation, like a drunk who evades the coming hangover. Economics in One Lesson by H. Hazlitt says look to indirect, unintended, long-range effects of economic action, including govt policy.
@TeaParty1776 , trash talk from you fucktard tea-bagger is like an old whore trying to sell your "services" to passer by. You fucktard tea-bagger forget that you (your ideology) is just an old, failed, used and ugly sagged bitch that had been "tried" by every men in town... but now not even a donkey wants your "services."
Don't understand what I'm talking about? Read this comment and all my previous comments about you. Or put a bullet in your head! Or some else will!
@federal401 Deflation is a very necessary part of the market and it arises after assets are overpriced in the first place.The incentive to buy a newer vehicle is in the features of the newer model. $7,500 would open up to a larger market, flooding the auto industry with sales. What is more affordable $600/month or $150/month? Exports would thrive in this great deflation(what are,u a keynesian?) It would greatly benefit anyone with savings as opposed to inflation which steals it.
@federal401 And how do people live while waiting for a lower price? Prices must be free to change with demand, cost, competition. Prices are signals of how people value something relative to everything else in an economy. Ten chickens for one cow. Money aids trade but does not change reality. Prices coordinate production. Govt money uncoordinates production so that real relative values are unknown. Inflation causes asset bubbles which pop and are blamed on capitalism.
@marketanarchist2011 It decreases socialist inflation and politically demanded asset bubbles. In a capitalist economy, with private money and unregulated investing, there will be a minimum of inflation and deflation. When govt inflates money and bank accounts, there will be a boom-bust cycle. The bust will destroy the inflation, deflating the counterfeit money and bank accounts. This will encourage investors to less risky projects.
@TeaParty1776 , STFU! Go elect Ron Paul for prez, until you do that, you're just a stupid tea-bagger talking shits out your mouth no credibility whatsoever. Then come back here, I'll either school you on real economics, or put a bullet to your head to end your misery. LMAO!
This is contentious. If people want their money out of a certain bank, it's their choice, it's not up to the Fed to make sure banks survive. In a free market system if I take my money out of a business and it fails, you let it fail. If banks want to prevent runs, they can either buy insurance, or the individual can do that themselves, insure their savings accounts. But the Fed prints money each year inflating the money, its so called 'purpose' has never been utilized, end the fucking Fed.
@Otzmatron Bank runs are caused by govt inflated, less valuable money that people want to spend before its even less valuable. Or, if banks issue too much paper money relative to their own gold, people want to get their own money before it runs out. See Richard Salsman's two books on US banking history and how the Fed weakens banks with bad money and bad investments. Less regulated 19th century banks were more solvent because of gold and less bailouts. Bailouts encourage bad investments.
This highlights the importance of understanding economic & financial history, a sub-set of financial literacy, which in the midst of all the financial reforms has slipped through the cracks. This complex system can't function if consumers of financial products don't know the basics. Successful completion of a course in basic finance should be required in every high school and college curriculum.
I'm afraid a lot of what is taught like the stuff in this video is total nonsense.
The reason for the collapse is not that more money printing was not forthcoming. Rather the root cause of the collapse was fractional reserve banking - which is another case of creating money out of thin air.
Fractional reserve banking is nothing more than counterfeiting and when that counterfeiting is exposed in a bank run, it all comes crashing down.
@orangedac Fractional reserve does not create money out of thin air.
It's not counterfeiting either. If banks could create money out of thin air, why would they worry about a bank run? They can just create more out of thin air.
fractional reserve does create money out of thin air. the notion that the supply of money is restricted to the amount of deposits times some multiplier is a lie. Why do you think banks in 2009 were told it was OK for them to maintain a zero reserve ratio (i.e. no reserves relative to currency issued).
most of the banks now are insolvent yet continue to operate. how is that?
paper money is fraud and like all fraudulent systems, it relies on theft of peter to pay paul.
Check out capital reserve ratios for banks in 2008/9. It went to 0%.
But even that is beside the point when the Federal Reserve handed out 16 trillion in taxpayer money to banks. They just turn around and buy govt bonds at a higher yeild which effectively means free money. Why do they need free money - reason - they are insolvent.
Google : Audit of the Federal Reserve Reveals $16 Trillion in Secret Bailouts
@orangedac You're confusing reserve requirements (they hold a certain % of deposits in reserve, not to be lent out) with capital requirements (they need a certain amount of capital to support their assets).
If their capital dropped to zero, it's because they lost big money on their assets (mortgages), not because the government allowed lower requirements on their deposits.
The Fed gave short term loans, no taxpayer money involved. Which bonds would they buy and at what rates?
The banks are beyond insolvent if they needed 16 trillion.
As for no taxpayer money involved, are you kidding. Where do you think the fed gets 16 trillion from? Who do you think ultimately backs the fed? Money that is printed up dilutes & destroys the wealth of savers & creditors.
All kinds of fancy terms are used to explain fiat money & paper shuffling but at the end of the day the Federal Reserve is little more than a money counterfeiting organization for bank cronies.
@orangedac They didn't borrow $16 trillion at once, that's cumulative. If they borrow $1 trillion and pay it back in a week and then borrow $800 billion, that's $1.8 trillion, even though only $1 trillion was outstanding at most.
The Fed creates the money, that's where they get it, no taxpayer money needed. Why does a bank that creates its own money need taxpayer backing?
Counterfeiting is when unauthorized persons create money....the Fed is authorized, not counterfeiting at all.
16 trillion was lent out against depreciating assets in a short period of time. It took from the 1950s to 2008 to accumulate a total debt of about 14 trillion for all of America while 16 trillion was given in the span of a few months. Can you spell insolvent.
Counterfeiting is theft. Whether a bunch of crooks bribe politicians to declare it as legal is irrelavant. It is theft of wealth from productive society.
Watch this video before posting any more v=bhMacPvc5qc
Common sense will tell you when banks are leveraged up 40:1 on mortgages that have depreciated for 3 years straight, they have the capasity to repay nothing. Instead creditors, savers and taxpayers have been ripped off via money printing which has been channeled to banks though below market rate govt loans which banks used to purchase govt bonds at higher rates.
Counterfeiting is theft regardless of what fancy term is used. You''re the one who's confused. Watch the video.
Banks have deleveraged their gambling losses onto the backs of taxpayers. When banks are leveraged 40:1 on real estate that's going down in value, there's no way a "profit" magically appears.
Excess reserves is printed money handed via the back door to banks by the Fed at the expense of taxpayers, creditors & savers. Incidentally these same banks are shareholders of the Fed.
Counterfeiting is theft. No amount of fancy paper shuffling or terminology will change that fact.
Did you sleep through the entire 2008 securitized real estate bust which has been offloaded onto taxpayers? The govt aka taxpayers are currently backstopping trillions of mortgage backed junk on the balance sheet of the Fed.
Where do you think the record profits of 2010, 2011 for these banks came from? Where do you think money to deposit as excess reserves at the Fed comes from when bank's leveraged real estate portfolios have performed disasterously? Thin air?
Fannie and Freddie did but it was not mortgage losses per say but LEVERAGE on mortgage losses that amplified the economic mess. Now guess who was gambling around with leverage, selling credit default swap on debts, watching it go boom and then offloading it on the taxpayer. Also guess what institution was used to offload the losses.
Its time to end this scam called the Federal Reserve. Intrinsically worthless paper money only invites theft, corruption & croneyism.
I'd be more than glad to exchange my intrinsically worthless paper money for American Eagle gold coins (worth $1800) which the govt has stamped with a value of $50.
When can we make this trade? I'm willing to take a few thousand coins off your hands.
Come on now, can't we cut a deal where I exchange the intrinsically wrothless paper for the gold price the Federal Reserve still quotes on its books i.e. $42/oz.
After all, if the paper is worth what it says it and keeps its value, the $50 stamped on govt issued 1 oz American gold eagle coins should surfice.
Sillyness aside, could you tell me why a gold coin which was valued at $50 is now $1800/oz as measured by intrinsically worthless paper?
Supply of gold has not chaned by much, why has demand?
Fueling economic bubbles on the basis of borrowing money has run out. Govt debt 31 years ago was < 1 trillion and now is 15 trillion. Private debt is many multiples of that.
The market no longer believes more debt is going to bring more growth. The only scam left is to devalue the paper which essentially is a default on debt. Thus people are fleeing paper.
@orangedac And why does the govt hang on to that worthless relic, gold, that FDR stole from productive people? Is govt afraid that gold in citizen's hands will cause them to wipe their ass w/Fed Reserve Notes? Note this!
@jimmyrtle 1923 German inflation. A wheelbarrow of sacred govt paper for a loaf of bread. Workers demanded wages in the morning so they could buy anything prior to decrease in the value of money later in the day. Buy anything,. even coocoo clocks, to hold value. Trash the Fed. Back to gold. Tar and feather Bernanke, Krugman.
@jimmyrtle It was just an example of the destructiveness of govt inflation.
Coincidences are not causes. During the US gold standard, there was occasional govt intervention in money, banking. See Richard Salsman, Murray Rothbard. Govt inflated and bailed out banks which used the inflation to make loans which looked good because prices rose. The gold standard decreased the govt's destructiveness, which is why FDR and Nixon split gold from the economy. Without gold, economies float weightless.
@jimmyrtle The loans' destructiveness of sustainable production is based on their fiat nature, not their length. Banks like inflation because (1) govt lends it to banks at below market rates, allowing banks to profit by loaning it, sometimes back to govt; inflation increases (nominal) profits, increasing bank stock prices; and (3) inflated prices encourage and mislead investors into borrowing from banks. Mainstream economics lies w/short-term effects. Austrian economics is of long-term effects.
@jimmyrtle What is TARP, and what is this thing that bank of America is trying to regain with 75 trillion dollars? Really I don't know what you are reading but i suspect that you watch way too much television.
American canine-capitalism is a classic Ponzi pyramid scheme, piling debts and looting the world and American younger generations dry with no way out of it, but a worldwide war over debts and obligations that their forefathers had passed down to them. WAKE THE FUCK UP YOU PEOPLE!
chapsroc 10 hours ago
Milton Friedman supply side of money economic theory, increase supplies of money through the Fed, enabled the US economy to grow 3x from $5 trillion GDP in 80's to just under $15 trillion today. I don't agree with MF and I do suspect that Fed printed at least 10x money supply to grow x amount of annual GDP grow, which means there are at least $150 trillion USD in the world today, and this will come back to haunt US later.
False econ theories do take off if enough people buying into it.
chapsroc 10 hours ago
No one can or wish to oppose real science that adhere to the laws of nature, because one would do that at one's peril. E.g. An aviator should never ignore the law of gravity or he shall eat the dirt, crash and possibly die. On the other hands, economic is not a real science because economists couldn't agree among themselves, e.g. the lunatic Austrian "economic laws" are ignored by every major economies, and they had 3 decades of explosive growth.
chapsroc 10 hours ago
This lunatic @TeaParty1776, reminds me of all the lunatic dead fascist dictators of 20th century, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Saddam, and Qaddafi, etc. They died taking their dogmas with them to the grave insisted that they were the only one that was right, and the "hero" of the people.
My "selfish rational morality" impulse got over my better judgement, I allowed myself to imagine this lunatic @TeaParty1776 at the noose saying "I was right, and all I said (selfishly) is for your own good!" LMAO
chapsroc 10 hours ago
@chapsroc You remind me of potatoes. Therefore you are a potato.
Selfishness requires knowledge and selfless brutes dont know how to live. They literally dont know which is why they want to sacrifice people, like a primitive tribe throwing virgins into volcanos. Man needs objective principles to live in concrete reality. Reason, purpose, self-esteem are the basic moral values. Morality is about your life and happiness, not a command to destroy yourself. Read Ayn Rand.
TeaParty1776 7 hours ago
This lunatic @TeaParty1776 seems to have this crazy idea of talking in a loop over and over again, regardless of how many people have demonstrated his fallacy, and by repeating his own words over over repeatedly, somehow "win" the argument. That's lunatic "rationality", indeed. LMAO!.
chapsroc 12 hours ago
@chapsroc I missed this fallacy. Can you provide it? I loop only to follow the many variations of the irrationality of sacrifice and collectivism
TeaParty1776 7 hours ago
LOL! For some reason, this lunatic @TeaParty1776 reminds me of Oprah (with apology to Oprah for this unfair comparison to a lunatic nutball) It must be all these book reading recommendation that this lunatic is typing up here. LOL! Like this old whore of lunatic @TeaParty1776 has any credibility. LMAO!
chapsroc 12 hours ago
@chapsroc Youre not actually focusing on the content of my posts. You must have learned reading by the Progressive Look-Say method of sensing word shapes. Try thinking about my ideas. Radical, dude!
TeaParty1776 7 hours ago
Let me summary this lunatic @TeaParty1776 perverted and skewed delusions on human life, happiness and needs.
1. Food - the lunatic say horde gold and fool others to give you food.
2. clothing - the lunatic say horde gold and fool others to give you cloth.
3. shelter - ... horde gold...
4. companion - ... horde gold
5. survival and happiness - horde gold and fool others to protect you and give you happiness.
What a scum mental parasites that @TeaParty1776 is!
chapsroc 13 hours ago
@chapsroc Gold is good as money, not as an end in itself. Only life is an end in itself. Only you can give yourself happiness. Other people can give you happiness only if you rationally evaluate them. Irrational people cannot be happy by a rational standard. Fraud makes you dependent upon other's ignorance. How will being king of a society of fools benefit you?
TeaParty1776 12 hours ago
If "With Capitalism, price will decrease" is a science, than "free market" profit seeking market forces would dictate that every one just buy and hold on to gold BECAUSE EVERYTHING ELSE WILL LOST VALUE OVER TIME. All investment in other productions (beside gold mining) would dry up and stop, and every one would horde gold and eat gold? That is an extreme case of fraud economic lunatics!
chapsroc 16 hours ago
@chapsroc Even w/decreasing prices, man needs a constant supply of goods to live. Why would you buy gold instead of food if you were starving? Economics is about the economy as as an ideological whole, not Pragmatically isolated parts, isolated from causes and effects. Mainstream economics is pseudo-scientific, Pragmatist chaos, good only for increasing govt power in the long run. Markets Dont Fail-Brian Simpson.
TeaParty1776 12 hours ago
Here's another case of extreme perversion in the field of fraud Economic "science".
A dogmatic loonatic, @TeaParty1776 wrote "With capitalism, price will decrease" which is a wishful advocate of deflation. This lunatic claims that he is the "pure" economist of pure "capitalism." Today, economic schools across the globe and policy makers in major economies generally recognize that deflation is outright dangerous that can lead to market sudden collapse. Science of one man vs the globe?
chapsroc 16 hours ago
@chapsroc Mainstream economics created govt economic policy. Why defend it? See Ayn Rand's, _The Fountainhead_, for a story about intellectual independence. See the American Revolution for the reality of intellectual independence. Modern mainstream intellectuals are corrupt, eg, our New Left President who was a professor of Constitutional law and is now destroying economic progress in favor of socialism and environmentalism. Our culture is corrupt. We need new intellectuals, like the Founders.
TeaParty1776 12 hours ago
@TeaParty1776 , Prove to me that you can eat gold and live. Go ahead, eat a plate of unrefined dirty gold nuggets for lunch, and die!
chapsroc 12 hours ago
@chapsroc Gold is a method of trade that holds value better than anything else, not food, at least on my planet. How fares it on yours?
TeaParty1776 7 hours ago
A dogmatic economist driven by ideology is a fascist want-a-be, he doesn't care about what is actually happening to the people.
Here's science of reality:
People need food, shelter, clothing, companion, and desire to stay alive and be happy.
All useful inventions are related to these basic human needs. Capitalism and economics are perverted ideologies that flip every thing up side down.
Capitalism = money is most important; Fake science of Economics is propagandize mechanism for money.
chapsroc 16 hours ago
@chapsroc Fascism is socialism of regulations, not govt ownership, created by timid liberals (and conservatives) who fear consistent socialism. In capitalism, man's mind is most important. Money is a mere tool. Yes, the purpose of economics is material values, the material values despised by liberals and conservatives in favor of spirit split from the material universe. Man is a mind/body unity, not a cosmic freak.
TeaParty1776 12 hours ago
Economic is not a science, it is a fraud. It is a scam to exploit Man's greed and fear.
If it is a science, then economists would rarely be wrong, a case in point is this video.
Here was Milton Friedman, an economist, a Nobel Laureate in economics, explaining the "rationality" for the Federal Reserve Banks System. Was he right? If so, then von Mises (another economist with opposing ideology) must be wrong.
Later, MF said FED was a bad idea. Flip-floping is NOT science?
chapsroc 16 hours ago
@chapsroc Austrian economics is rarely wrong, unlike Keynes, monetarism, because it studies individual choices as basic, not a floating abstraction called "aggregate production." Economics In One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt is pop Austrian economics, easy to read.
Science is the product of man's mind, not a divine revelation. Errors are part of learning anything. Be brave. Look reality straight in the eye and march forward. Man's mind created America, iPads, and pizza. No problemo!
TeaParty1776 12 hours ago
@TeaParty1776 , talking shits is lunatic, go to Austria, they are in trouble, the economy is in shamble, and the country is sliding into a one party dictatorship. But then again, your lunatic "selfish rational morality" would probably just play into the hands of the status quo. Why don't you just save your stupidity, and kill yourself!
chapsroc 11 hours ago
@chapsroc Austrian economics is an intellectual category, not a location. Most Austrian economists now are Americans. Do you oppose the Austrian respect for individual choice?
Selfishness in Europe?! Europeans are spiritual serfs, comfortable to mindlessly obey. Selfishness is objective, based on man's mind and its power to transform nature into a human environment. You collectivists give society too much importance.
TeaParty1776 7 hours ago
@chapsroc , Go troll elsewhere
IBringIt56 23 hours ago
@IBringIt56 , what are you doing here?
chapsroc 17 hours ago
The politicians and even corporate rank and files are all pimps of the bankers.
By way of illustration:
Mr. Smith goes to Washington to serve his country... When he got to D.C. he bought a nice apartment from a "newly" acquainted friend. And suddenly he was "educated" by his good friends on how to make money "legally" such as finding the "right" investment adviser at the "most opportunistic time" to make himself millions... Success at last, now he is one of them, or be "voted out" by neg ad.
chapsroc 1 day ago
Once they taste the "sweetness of success" the politicians now have fear in their hearts, the fear of losing their newly acquired wealth, and they know who are their bosses now -- the bankers and corporate big monies. They know the "Super PAC" and corporate media can turn against them and get them vote out of office. American politicians, both left and right, but especially the right-wing of the Republican party, are shameless preaching the "talking points" of bankers and big corporations.
chapsroc 1 day ago
@chapsroc In a dispute between an armed politician and an unarmed businessman, the politician always wins, despite Marx's mystical belief in the alleged political power of money. Politicians can steal money from businessmen w/laws. Businessmen cannot steal from politicians.
TeaParty1776 12 hours ago
@TeaParty1776 , so don't be a loser, arm yourself with gold machine guns, and "selfish rational morality", build a few more "nuke bombs" with 100.01% pure gold (LOL) and go fight those fascist politicians. Or save yourself the stupidity, JUST KILL YOURSELF! LMAO!
chapsroc 11 hours ago
@chapsroc He went to Washington because you voted for govt to steal money from business. Bankers select the most profitable investments, indirectly benefiting you. Politicians select the most politically powerful investments, indirectly hurting you.
TeaParty1776 12 hours ago
@chapsroc Politicians have the police power of the state to force obedience from unarmed bankers. Banking may be the most regulated, subsidized industry. Search online. Try starting a bank without bended knee to govt. There is little freedom in banking. In the 19th century, states forced banks to deposit money in state accounts, allegedly to protect depositors. Would you be shocked, shocked to know that states spent the money instead of raising taxes? A collectivist protection.
TeaParty1776 7 hours ago
@TeaParty1776 A collectivist protection racket.
TeaParty1776 7 hours ago
jimmyrtle
se7ensnakes 3 days ago
@TeaParty1776, THIS IS END OF YOUR TEA-BAGGER SCUM SPECIES.
1776 was the year you barbaric Anglo-fites declared "independence" from the "tyrannical" British Empire that helped slaughtered the Native American Indians to help your barbaric genocidal ancestors steal the Natives' lands.
Today, Gold or fiat money, American canine-capitalism is finished! Yeah, you can start WW3 with China and Russia, but US will be come out as loser, the Hitler of WW3. You're finished, Tea-bagger FUCKTARD!
chapsroc 3 days ago
@chapsroc Rational selfishness is morality. Sacrifice is depraved
TeaParty1776 1 day ago
@chapsroc I agree. What our ancestors did to the natives they found in America was despicable. Add to that the destruction our industry wreaks upon the land, the "commoditization" of every natural resource and the attitude that everything as far as the eye can see is ours for the taking is short-sighted, unsustainable and, truly, unforgivable. We are an infestation on our Mother Earth and we should be dealt with.
JamesJSimpson 1 day ago
@JamesJSimpson Try suicide for the ultimate sacrifice.
TeaParty1776 1 day ago
@TeaParty1776 , the ultimate act of selfishness is .... WOULD SOMEONE PUT A BULLET TO THIS FUCKTARD TEA-BAGGER (a.k.a. TeaTarty1776 disease) YOUR HEAD, TO END YOUR MENTAL PARASITIC DISEASE! please? LAMO!
chapsroc 1 day ago
@chapsroc It must be horrible to discover that sacrifice is for losers and geeks like Jesus (mysticism) and Hitler (subjectivism). Step up to a rational way of life!
TeaParty1776 13 hours ago
@TeaParty1776 , did you kill your children and old parents yet? Practice your "selfish rational morality", listen to your own psychopath advice, no one ever make profit out of raising children. KILL YOU CHILDREN AND OLD PARENTS! Tea-bagger fucktard!
chapsroc 13 hours ago
@TeaParty1776 Well, that line of reasoning is about as thoughful and persuasive as your previous ones. Thank you for your suggestions. Maybe its about time you moved on. I don't see much support for your positions here and I have no further desire to communicate with you.
JamesJSimpson 1 day ago
@JamesJSimpson , you're a good man, there are still hope in world because of caring and conscientious men and women like you. That tea-bagger asshole is just non-sense. He is either a paid shill of the rich or a psycho.
chapsroc 1 day ago
@chapsroc Some people just like to read their own writing. . . . . no matter how absurd, and don't care about whose feelings they hurt. My take on TeaParty is that he/she about half understands about half of what he/she watches on You Tube and takes no time to do any actual research. Then when someone comes along who has done research and suggests where to find more information to clear up their misconceptions, he/she gets embarrassed and lashes out. Insecure little cowards, mostly.
JamesJSimpson 1 day ago
@JamesJSimpson , I have not followed your posts so I don't know your positions on current world economic crises or your take on classical economic theories. But I suggest you don't waste too much time with the tea-bagger. He is as dogmatic as a pope is Catholic. You're absolutely right, HE DOESN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND HIS OWN WORDS.
Ex. his "rational selfishness is morality" If so, he should kill all his Children and grand parents to save money. No one ever made money raising children.
chapsroc 1 day ago
@chapsroc Selfishness is a product of reason, not emotion. Reason puts values into the context of one's life as a whole, not some Pragmatically, subjectively, hedonistically isolated part. Conventional selfishness is based on arbitrary desire, not the objective needs of man's life. Merely because you want something does not make it objectively good for your life. You cant mindlessly drive a car or guide your life. Knowledge, not emotion, is the guide. Morality is a guide to life and happiness.
TeaParty1776 13 hours ago
@TeaParty1776 , Listen to your own "gold prophesies" and "selfish rational morality", go kill your wife the old bitch is no good, and make a fake dole out of fake gold, try to screw that cold metal at night or day! STFU, you lunatic tea-bagger fucktard!
chapsroc 13 hours ago
@JamesJSimpson , those dogmatic "free market" private enterprise rationality nuts are as "rational" when it comes to greed and money as a sex addict with a naked under age girl.
The Fed was created by the "selfish rationality" of bankers and big oil (Rockefeller) tycoons of the time. So now we have a "counterfeit" money printing Fed, so screamed the "selfish rational" nuts. LMAO!
chapsroc 1 day ago
@chapsroc The Fed was sold to Americans as morally necessary to the alleged general welfare. If that collectivist ideal was not substituted for individual rights, it would never have become law. The motives of business are not historically important. Ideas determine history and the ideal of sacrifice has been regaining cultural influence since its low point in 1776. See the timid Republican support for capitalism and the passionate Democratic support for sacrifice. See Weimar Germany.
TeaParty1776 13 hours ago
@TeaParty1776 , you like gold so much, why don't make weapons out gold and go on a suicidal missions against the government and its military? Go kill yourself, lunatic, tea-bagger fucktard!
chapsroc 13 hours ago
@chapsroc There is no value IN (intrinsic to) gold. Gold is objectively valuable as judged by man's mind focused on the reality of man's life as a whole. Gold is impractical as a weapon except that a bar of gold heaved at a selfless person's head may have an interesting effect.
TeaParty1776 13 hours ago
@TeaParty1776 , not man's mind, its your psychopath fixation on gold lunatic mind. Since you like gold so much, why don't split open your head and take out that stupid brain of yours and replace it with gold chips. Go ahead, kill yourself!
chapsroc 12 hours ago
Our federal government reminds me of the broken vending machine in a store that everyone keeps hopefully dropping their coins into under the watchful eye of the proprietor who stands by, knowing full-well that the machine is broken. But rather than hang an "out of order" sign on it, he maintains his vigilance ONLY to prevent anyone from damaging it before he can empty out all the coins at the end of the day. The Proprietor in my analogy is the Federal Reserve Banking system. End the Scam!
JamesJSimpson 3 days ago
Friedman evades the cause of bank runs: central banks, ie, socialism, counterfeiting money and bank accounts to pay for war & welfare w/o direct taxes. This counterfeit encourages bad investments which fail because there is not enough savings for real, good investments. The Fed was created to bail out losers created by pre-Fed counterfeiting by the Progressives in the late 19th to early 20th centuries. Production requires market money and banking. Socialist money, banking is destructive.
TeaParty1776 1 week ago
@TeaParty1776 People do not realize the cutting of interest rates in the late 1920's to encourage people to borrow and invest in the stock market, which caused a huge bubble. After the crash, the DOW was down year to year around only 20 points before the run on the market. Sounds familiar to the tech stock and housing bubbles. Cheap money, people projecting the Dow to hit 100,000, they just forgot about one little thing...production of actual goods
quinnrasta 4 days ago
Friedman later acknowledged that the Fed's monetary policies and actions caused the U.S. Great Depression. watch?v=Iv6RFubNxXo
JamesJSimpson 2 weeks ago 2
@JamesJSimpson Bernanke said the Fed didnt create enough "money," allegedly causing the GD. So Im unsure what Friedman said. However, shortly prior to dying, he advocated capitalist money and banking and abolishing the Fed.
TeaParty1776 3 days ago
@TeaParty1776 The fec actually contracted the money supply by more than 30% in the months after Black Tuesday, thereby exacerbating the money shortage and worsening the depression. The money that was thus removed did not simply disappear. It fattened the Banksters' wallets at the expense of the common man. The whole system is fraudulent and designed to create debt and inflation. Via "rate adjustments" the Banksters work the system like an old pump.
JamesJSimpson 3 days ago
@JamesJSimpson Depression is the necessary, unavoidable result of money and credit inflation and the resulting asset bubbles. Booms are bad. Busts are good. Resources must be reallocated back to sustainable production. Yes, banks get richer but the Fed has been morally justified as subsidizing the middle and poor classes helping the economy for all. Morality trumps money. But govt should not sacrifice some to subsidize others. Capitalism is properly selfish, with no sacrifice.
TeaParty1776 3 days ago
@TeaParty1776 , you tea-bagger scumback, talking out of your ass again. FED's trillion goes to the banksters at zero interest rates, and they use those money to bet on derivatives and to sell credit default swaps to risky entities and/or sovereign debts, etc. Those derivatives produce no jobs, no real macroeconomic benefits, it's worse than Las Vegas casino which at least has some trickle down effects of low paying jobs.
You tea-bagger lying parasites are just talking shits out of your ass!
chapsroc 3 days ago
@chapsroc The Fed must be abolished. Money and banking must be returned from politics to the market where production, not pressure group subsidies, is the goal. In that context, the financial industry will invest in production, not govt asset bubbles. Finance is the most important part of a money economy. It directs resources to the industries and firms most likely to profit. Your material well-being depends on the independent judgments of financiers. Don't chain them to politics.
TeaParty1776 1 day ago
@TeaParty1776 I disagree that inflation is either necessary or unavoidable. Inflation results from the injection of fiat money for which there is no corresponding value created. It dilutes the savings and investments of everyone who was already in the economic market prior to that injection of "funny money". He who controls the money supply controls inflation and deflation and they pump it like a water pump.
JamesJSimpson 3 days ago
@JamesJSimpson Inflation is necessary, unavoidable in a politically controlled economy.
Its rare and brief in capitalism because market commodities, eg, gold, silver, become money. Inflating private banks would have insufficient market money to redeem their paper. They would go bankrupt w/no bailouts. The much more capitalist 19th century US had declining prices and increased production. FDR, Nixon split gold from the market, causing misleading investment signals.
TeaParty1776 1 day ago
@TeaParty1776 The Federal Reserve System is designed to pump money out of the economy and into the hands of the owners of the Federal Reserve System. The Fed essentially creates money out of thin air and RENTS it to our government, with interest.
JamesJSimpson 3 days ago
@JamesJSimpson The Fed is a govt agency regardless of any dishonest laws. It was created so private banks would have (counterfeit) reserves as basis for cheap loans to govt (war, welfare) and "nationally important" businesses. This occurred pre-Fed by various agencies that, like the Fed, caused booms, busts. The Fed was supposed to cause a sustainable boom w/constant monetary, credit inflation. History of Money, Banking in the US-M. Rothbard. Read critically.
TeaParty1776 1 day ago
JamesJSimpson 1 day ago
@JamesJSimpson Youre begging the question of the real owners. The fact that a piece of paper says banks own the Fed is as important as the rights in the Soviet and Iranian constitutions. The Fed was created by govt, its director appointed by govt, its rules made by govt and its actions necessarily support the govt. Lacking a rational philosophy of history, you fearfully focus on enemy tribes, like any primitive savage in a jungle. Ideas cause history. Ominous Parallels-Leonard Peikoff.
TeaParty1776 14 hours ago
@TeaParty1776 , if you like gold so much, why don't you shove down 1/4 lb of gold down your throat, choke and die?
chapsroc 14 hours ago
@chapsroc Moral values are of man's life as whole, not a part isolated from the whole. Gold is valuable only if it furthers man's life as judged by man's mind. Your selflessness is immoral, a guide to suffering and death.
TeaParty1776 13 hours ago
@TeaParty1776 , gold will further your death, for sure, but since you like gold so much, why don't you prove me wrong by making gold droplets and pretend they as medicine that will "further your life". Take a handful of gold droplets and kill yourself!
chapsroc 13 hours ago
@chapsroc Furthering one's life requires focusing mind onto concrete reality, not mystical or subjectivist pretending.
Youre getting hysterical. Close your curtains so the neighbors wont call the police. And take your hand out of your pants. Your keyboard will get sticky.
TeaParty1776 12 hours ago
@TeaParty1776
Why should I believe you? I have an open mind but, I hope, not an empty one. Please impress me with your knowledge of facts and I'll be better disposed to evaluate your claims. Who was present, and WHY, at the meeting where the Fed was devised? Who organized that meeting? Why? Who was Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild? Who were his sons? What did they do for a living? Can you answer any or all of these questions? If not, please don't lecture me until you can.
JamesJSimpson 12 hours ago
@JamesJSimpson Dont believe me. The facts are publicly available to active minds. Your questions are Marxist trivia. If Joe Schmoo started the Fed with the Illuminati and the Devil Himself, they would still need ideas to think about it. Political ideas come from intellectuals, not businessmen who, conventionally, are anti-intellectual. Mega-billionaires Buffet & Gates follow the extreme egalitarianism of leftist Harvard philosopher, John Rawls (Theory Of Justice). Philosophy rules!
TeaParty1776 7 hours ago
@TeaParty1776 I agree the facts are publicly available and a grasp of them would benefit you immensely. But you cannot be bothered with facts because they do not support your tirade of philisophical catch-phrases that you spew without any inkling as to their meaning. So enjoy your soapbox and don't bother to reply to me any more as I will not read anything else you write.
JamesJSimpson 6 hours ago
@TeaParty1776 The Government then transfers that "magic" or "fiat" money into the commercial banking system. The commercial banking system then inflates that money further via the fractional reserve banking system that permits the banks to lend 9 times as much money as they have in depositors' funds. thereby creating more "fiat money" against which the banks charge interest and if the agreed payments against that loaned money are not made the bank forecloses on the secured property.
JamesJSimpson 3 days ago
@TeaParty1776 And since the money never even existed before the bank loaned it, they are essentially charging interest on money that only exists on the books of the bank. They create it out of thin air and then charge interest on it and this is completely fraudulent and a hidden tax on everyone's savings. The FED has to go.
JamesJSimpson 3 days ago
@TeaParty1776 See The Creature from Jekyll Island on You Tube if you are unwilling to accept my word for it. In fact, please don't accept my word for it. If yhou're going to comment about inflation or the Fed you'd might as welll have correct information yourself.
JamesJSimpson 3 days ago
@JamesJSimpson Ideas, not economics, causes history. The Fed was sold with altruism and collectivism as a way to end the destruction from prior intervention w/more intervention. Govt force, not unarmed businessmen, caused this problem. Govt wanted to pay its bills w/o angering taxpayers. Thus unbacked paper money. See Richard Salsman's two books. Yaron Brooks online articles, lectures.
TeaParty1776 1 day ago
@TeaParty1776 I'm sorry my replies are all in reverse order. Please read them in reverse order. :) Cheers!
JamesJSimpson 3 days ago
@JamesJSimpson Depression and monetary and credit deflation are the real, unavoidable effects of govt-created money & credit inflation and the resulting, unsustainable, asset bubbles. Govt shifts production from market to politics. This uses limited resources for goods and services that individual consumers dont want to buy with their own money. Those subsidized industries eventually fail when the destructiveness of continued inflation is obvious. Money, Banking & Business Cycle-Brian Simpson
TeaParty1776 1 day ago
thx for the video very great explanation!
hromi 3 weeks ago
Friedman came around (except for his endorsement of bernanke) at the end of his life and called for the fed to be abolished: /watch?v=JL3FT0O4kYg
RMT87 3 weeks ago
@RMT87 Isn't it remarkable how these people in positions of such high power and esteem in our nation tend to "come clean" at the end of their lives?
JamesJSimpson 3 days ago
Q: If the reason for the run on the bank in the first place was because people wanted their money back, how will the Fed's action to "deal with this problem of the run on the banks" actually benefit US?? How does diluting everyone's money, devaluing their life savings, help anyone but the banks? For doesn't this allow the banks to avoid liquidating their investments of the depositors' money, investments that obviously are more profitable to Banks than the paltry depositor interest payments?
JamesJSimpson 3 weeks ago
@JamesJSimpson Jesus Christ, they fed LOANS the banks the money. The WHOLE FUCKING POINT is we don't want to force the banks to liquidate their assets.
greg55666 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@JamesJSimpson
"how will the Fed's action to "deal with this problem of the run on the banks" actually benefit US??"
When the Fed didn't act in the 1930s and thousands of banks collapsed and the money supply was reduced by one-third and unemployment hit 25%, how did that benefit US?
jimmyrtle 6 days ago
@JamesJSimpson Central banking is destructive to short-range private bankers. Mississippi Bubble, South Sea Bubble, etc.
TeaParty1776 1 day ago
Let me see if I've got this right: When the Federal Reserve steps in to prevent the disastrous consequences of customers' run on the bank it does so by printing "funny" money that has no corresponding value in goods or services in the economy. The funny money dollars can only draw value from the "old" dollars already in circulation. It's like adding water to soup: it waters down the economy and it weakens the economy and robs value from everyone's savings. Sound about right?
JamesJSimpson 3 weeks ago
@JamesJSimpson Yes and no. Did you watch the video? It allows inflation, which allows the economy to grow.
greg55666 2 weeks ago
@greg55666 How can money, real or counterfeit, cause production unless there is prior production? Would inflation cause a stone-age economy like Afghanistan to be industrialized. Real money (gold, silver, etc) coordinates production but counterfeit blinds investors to the most profitable production. Eg, we have excess houses, China has ghost _cities_.
TeaParty1776 1 day ago
@TeaParty1776 Listen, I'm going to explain something to you that you will not hear anywhere else: paper money and gold function in exactly the same way. Neither one has any intrinsic value. The ONLY value of either is its value as trade. The purpose of money is to allow easier trade across wider groups of people. It doesn't matter if it's made of gold or door knobs. One advantage gold had back in the day is it is harder to counterfeit--even that is not true anymore.
greg55666 1 day ago
@greg55666 There are no intrinsic values. Gold has objective value because man's mind identifies its properties as valuable for trading and trade as furthering man's life. Man's mind has not identified paper as valuable for trading, thus legal tender laws force the use of paper that people would not choose to use. Will you trade your gold for my paper? Paper is good for socialists who pretend that socialism is low cost. Paper encourages unsustainable investments which fail, causing depression.
TeaParty1776 1 day ago
@TeaParty1776 , you fucktard can't speak about "Man's mind", a mentally retard tea-bagger like you need your fucktard mind seen by a shrink.
"selfish rational morality" walk the talk, dumbfuck: Go kill your children and save money to pay your shrink's fee and insurance rate hike. You are a waste product of freak nature. Since you're just a pile of shits, your offspring are just more shits, over supply of shits is bad investment. Kill your children, save $ for your selfish enjoyment.
chapsroc 1 day ago
@TeaParty1776 , you're crazy, go kill yourself for your "selfish rational morality". No one give a fuck about what you are saying, you're just torturing yourself by talking narcissistic shits inside your painful asshole! A "selfish rational moralist" whatever the fuck you meant by that no one cares, just go kill yourself, and spare yourself the embarrassment and pain.
chapsroc 1 day ago
@TeaParty1776 Thank you. I'm glad you don't make the ridiculous claim that gold has intrinsic value. Now, unfortunately, your new version is dumber than the old one. Of course "our minds" have identified paper money with value--just last night I bought a bottle of soda for two pieces of paper. Would I trade my gold for your money? Of course! How much are you offering? This is such an idiotic conversation it is difficult to have with a straight face.
greg55666 16 hours ago
@greg55666 If gold was subjectively valuable, it would have no real properties for trade, ie, valuable on the market (decoration) prior to its use as money, rarity, durability, divisibility, transportability, fungible (each piece is like other pieces). These real properties are identified, not created, by man's mind, and evaluated as furthering man's life by a rational standard. Objective value is not intrinsic value. See Ayn Rand's "What Is Capitalism."
TeaParty1776 13 hours ago
@greg55666 Continuing govt inflation decreases paper's value and increases gold's value. Today's US dollar is worth .0001 of a 1776 dollar. See online charts. $300 bought a car in the 1920s but only a small repair job now. So much for paper. Your faith in govt is short-range, sentimental, Pragmatist hogwash.
TeaParty1776 13 hours ago
@JamesJSimpson "It's like adding water to soup"
Correct! And then, when the bank repays the Fed, the water is removed from the soup.
jimmyrtle 6 days ago
@jimmyrtle This merely complicates the fraud.
TeaParty1776 3 days ago
@jimmyrtle Here is why they are so dumb. I owe $100K in school loans. Which would I rather use to pay it back, good thick wholesome soup, or water? Water obviously. Please, government, add more water to the economy. They don't understand how inflation functions. (Then again, they have trouble putting their pants on in the morning.)
greg55666 1 day ago
@greg55666 Yes, I understand the soup:water analogy.
Do you understand that a short term loan, quickly repaid, doesn't make
your soup watery?
jimmyrtle 1 day ago
@jimmyrtle Are you talking about fed loans? Of course. The truth is even the water analogy is dumb, because the economy is a ship--we all float up and down together. If a car goes from $5000 to $10,000, then our wages will too.
greg55666 1 day ago
@greg55666 , there is something wrong with water/ship analogy...
Try fish, non-native artificial game fish and bait fish. The people of the mass are bait fish;
big corporations are large game fish such as large bass, pikes, walleyed, etc.,
Park and game wardens, biologists are the economists and "professionals" who serve the government that answer only to lake owners (bankers) who makes money off the hardcore fishermen (the greedy idiots who worship and slave to money).
chapsroc 1 day ago
@chapsroc , The economy, the whole globe now, is one big brutally fake scam, artificially managed and manipulated by the bankers and their big corporate elites cronies.
chapsroc 1 day ago
@chapsroc Well, I'm not sure that is what is wrong with the analogy, you're talking about something completely different. But yes, the problem with the system is money and corporations. There's nothing inherently wrong with government, the problem is corruption. We have to get money out of politics. Of course these idiots somehow separate government from corporations, as though corporations are inherently good, and the only problem is that politicians are corrupt! It's idiotic.
greg55666 16 hours ago
@greg55666 , oh, I was referring to your analogy of "the economy is like a ship, ... if car price went up from 30k to 100k, so will our wages... we rise and fall together." It doesn't reflect reality. Not only wages are stagnant for last decade or so, but jobs disappeared to oversea factories. The top 1% made more billions in last 2 decades than all of preceding 50 years combined. Meanwhile, the middle classes are squeezed with additional rings of expenses, and taxes that put them in debts.
chapsroc 14 hours ago
@greg55666 Yes, the $16 trillion everyone is whining about was short term loans by the Fed, long repaid.
jimmyrtle 1 day ago
@jimmyrtle You mean the stimulus? I don't think you're right about the $16 trillion--I believe that is the current size of the debt. The stimulus wasn't nearly that big--neither was TARP. The GM loan was paid back quickly, with interest. TARP is mostly paid back, I believe; the problem is that the banks are acting worse now than they did before the bailout. But the $16 trillion is all the Bush tax cuts, the wars, and welfare/unemployment rises caused by the economic crisis (Bush's).
greg55666 16 hours ago
@JamesJSimpson Its worse than mere inflation. The Fed's funny money and funny bank accounts lower interest rates. Lower interest rates affect producers' goods more than consumers' goods. Business is mislead and encouraged to invest in more factories, raw materials, machines, labor, etc. But there is no real savings for investments. Consumers are consuming, not saving. But the phony economy booms, eg, stocks, dot.coms, houses, etc. The bubble bursts. Capitalism is blamed. More inflation. Whee!
TeaParty1776 3 days ago
@TeaParty1776 See _Human Action_ by Ludwig von Mises, an "Austrian" economist, ignored by mainstream quacks, who predicted the Great Depression by noting that roaring 1920s technology and stable prices was a contradiction. Tech lowers prices. Thus, the Fed must be inflating. Austrians also predicted our current mess. See Brian Simpson's, "Money, Banking & The Business Cycle" (Ayn Rand Bookstore).
TeaParty1776 3 days ago
Vote For Ron Paul 2012!!!
rogeralejandro2007 3 weeks ago
Comsmic Fork does not have a clue. The real truth is that the public has voluntarily put themselves into debt. And they vote for libs in state and local govt's which spend every dollar they get from us. And the libs have attempted to get rid of poverty buy taking from taxpayers and giving the $ to others. So now we are 15 trill in the hole and poverty is the same as it was when Johnson and libs and Rhino's raided the social security fund.
himsil 1 month ago
@himsil You say "the gov'ts which spend every dollar they get from us." What you mean is "the gov'ts spend every dollar WE get from us." We are borrowing and spending our own money. Poverty is the same as it was because you continue to support republicans, who take money from the 99% to give to the wealthiest.
greg55666 2 weeks ago
@greg55666 Govt steals from, subsidizes and regulates private investors. This decreases production.
TeaParty1776 1 day ago
@TeaParty1776 steals from AND subsidizes? Wow!
greg55666 1 day ago
@himsil Acc/to liberals, poverty is worse (as long as they are not blamed).
TeaParty1776 1 day ago
@marketanarchist2011, the general idea is that it encourages saving, which encourages price drops (to entice buyers), which further encourages saving (why buy now, when it'll be cheaper in a week?), and so on. Follow the logic and it leads to a slow down in production (since demand drops), which raises unemployment and further diminishes demand.
This vicious cycle is why (most) economists favor a low, steady inflation (say 3% per year) rather than get to close to negative territory (deflation).
grantcivyt 1 month ago
@grantcivyt Saving and only savings increases production from a hand-to-mouth economy. Socialism destroys savings for consumption. Marx hated _Capitalism_, ie, producers goods and long-range investment for spontaneous creativity (not production)
in the workers paradise. We are headed back from industrialism to hunting-gathering. Progressive? Steve Jobs was progressive. Obama is reactionary.
TeaParty1776 3 days ago
@TeaParty1776 Can you elaborate on what you mean when you say savings increases production? Decreased demand for goods, which is the implication of augmented savings, would tend to depress prices and prompt a corresponding decrease in supply to match. In order to decrease supply, production would fall.
grantcivyt 3 days ago
Decreased demand for consumers' goods frees resources for producers' goods which produce more, better and cheaper consumers' goods. Economic progress needs long-range planning, not merely production for immediate consumption. Mainstream economics is Pragmatist, lurching from immediate situation to immediate situation, like a drunk who evades the coming hangover. Economics in One Lesson by H. Hazlitt says look to indirect, unintended, long-range effects of economic action, including govt policy.
TeaParty1776 1 day ago
@TeaParty1776 , trash talk from you fucktard tea-bagger is like an old whore trying to sell your "services" to passer by. You fucktard tea-bagger forget that you (your ideology) is just an old, failed, used and ugly sagged bitch that had been "tried" by every men in town... but now not even a donkey wants your "services."
Don't understand what I'm talking about? Read this comment and all my previous comments about you. Or put a bullet in your head! Or some else will!
chapsroc 1 day ago
Why is deflation bad?
marketanarchist2011 1 month ago
Comment removed
federal401 1 month ago
@federal401 Wow, someone that understands inflation and deflation! Thank you for that!
Not only that, inflation makes our debt cheaper and easier to pay off.
greg55666 2 weeks ago
@federal401 Deflation is a very necessary part of the market and it arises after assets are overpriced in the first place.The incentive to buy a newer vehicle is in the features of the newer model. $7,500 would open up to a larger market, flooding the auto industry with sales. What is more affordable $600/month or $150/month? Exports would thrive in this great deflation(what are,u a keynesian?) It would greatly benefit anyone with savings as opposed to inflation which steals it.
quinnrasta 4 days ago
@federal401 And how do people live while waiting for a lower price? Prices must be free to change with demand, cost, competition. Prices are signals of how people value something relative to everything else in an economy. Ten chickens for one cow. Money aids trade but does not change reality. Prices coordinate production. Govt money uncoordinates production so that real relative values are unknown. Inflation causes asset bubbles which pop and are blamed on capitalism.
TeaParty1776 3 days ago
@marketanarchist2011 It decreases socialist inflation and politically demanded asset bubbles. In a capitalist economy, with private money and unregulated investing, there will be a minimum of inflation and deflation. When govt inflates money and bank accounts, there will be a boom-bust cycle. The bust will destroy the inflation, deflating the counterfeit money and bank accounts. This will encourage investors to less risky projects.
TeaParty1776 1 day ago
@TeaParty1776 , STFU! Go elect Ron Paul for prez, until you do that, you're just a stupid tea-bagger talking shits out your mouth no credibility whatsoever. Then come back here, I'll either school you on real economics, or put a bullet to your head to end your misery. LMAO!
chapsroc 1 day ago
This is contentious. If people want their money out of a certain bank, it's their choice, it's not up to the Fed to make sure banks survive. In a free market system if I take my money out of a business and it fails, you let it fail. If banks want to prevent runs, they can either buy insurance, or the individual can do that themselves, insure their savings accounts. But the Fed prints money each year inflating the money, its so called 'purpose' has never been utilized, end the fucking Fed.
Otzmatron 1 month ago 4
@Otzmatron Uh, I'm sorry to have to point out something so obvious I feel stupid even saying it, but the banks do buy insurance. It's called FDIC.
greg55666 2 weeks ago
@Otzmatron Bank runs are caused by govt inflated, less valuable money that people want to spend before its even less valuable. Or, if banks issue too much paper money relative to their own gold, people want to get their own money before it runs out. See Richard Salsman's two books on US banking history and how the Fed weakens banks with bad money and bad investments. Less regulated 19th century banks were more solvent because of gold and less bailouts. Bailouts encourage bad investments.
TeaParty1776 3 days ago
This highlights the importance of understanding economic & financial history, a sub-set of financial literacy, which in the midst of all the financial reforms has slipped through the cracks. This complex system can't function if consumers of financial products don't know the basics. Successful completion of a course in basic finance should be required in every high school and college curriculum.
MikeJacobsJr 2 months ago
@MikeJacobsJr
I'm afraid a lot of what is taught like the stuff in this video is total nonsense.
The reason for the collapse is not that more money printing was not forthcoming. Rather the root cause of the collapse was fractional reserve banking - which is another case of creating money out of thin air.
Fractional reserve banking is nothing more than counterfeiting and when that counterfeiting is exposed in a bank run, it all comes crashing down.
orangedac 2 months ago
@orangedac Fractional reserve does not create money out of thin air.
It's not counterfeiting either. If banks could create money out of thin air, why would they worry about a bank run? They can just create more out of thin air.
jimmyrtle 2 months ago
@jimmyrtle
fractional reserve does create money out of thin air. the notion that the supply of money is restricted to the amount of deposits times some multiplier is a lie. Why do you think banks in 2009 were told it was OK for them to maintain a zero reserve ratio (i.e. no reserves relative to currency issued).
most of the banks now are insolvent yet continue to operate. how is that?
paper money is fraud and like all fraudulent systems, it relies on theft of peter to pay paul.
orangedac 2 months ago
@orangedac "fractional reserve does create money out of thin air"
No, it creates money out of deposits. No deposits, no loans, no new money.
"Why do you think banks in 2009 were told it was OK for them to maintain a zero reserve ratio"
Source?
"most of the banks now are insolvent yet continue to operate"
Insolvent means unable to keep current on debt payments or assets less than liabilities.
Which banks do you feel meet either definition? Where's your proof?
jimmyrtle 2 months ago
@jimmyrtle
Check out capital reserve ratios for banks in 2008/9. It went to 0%.
But even that is beside the point when the Federal Reserve handed out 16 trillion in taxpayer money to banks. They just turn around and buy govt bonds at a higher yeild which effectively means free money. Why do they need free money - reason - they are insolvent.
Google : Audit of the Federal Reserve Reveals $16 Trillion in Secret Bailouts
Now where's your prove they are not insolvent?
orangedac 2 months ago
@orangedac You're confusing reserve requirements (they hold a certain % of deposits in reserve, not to be lent out) with capital requirements (they need a certain amount of capital to support their assets).
If their capital dropped to zero, it's because they lost big money on their assets (mortgages), not because the government allowed lower requirements on their deposits.
The Fed gave short term loans, no taxpayer money involved. Which bonds would they buy and at what rates?
jimmyrtle 1 month ago
@jimmyrtle
The banks are beyond insolvent if they needed 16 trillion.
As for no taxpayer money involved, are you kidding. Where do you think the fed gets 16 trillion from? Who do you think ultimately backs the fed? Money that is printed up dilutes & destroys the wealth of savers & creditors.
All kinds of fancy terms are used to explain fiat money & paper shuffling but at the end of the day the Federal Reserve is little more than a money counterfeiting organization for bank cronies.
orangedac 1 month ago
@orangedac They didn't borrow $16 trillion at once, that's cumulative. If they borrow $1 trillion and pay it back in a week and then borrow $800 billion, that's $1.8 trillion, even though only $1 trillion was outstanding at most.
The Fed creates the money, that's where they get it, no taxpayer money needed. Why does a bank that creates its own money need taxpayer backing?
Counterfeiting is when unauthorized persons create money....the Fed is authorized, not counterfeiting at all.
jimmyrtle 1 month ago
@jimmyrtle
16 trillion was lent out against depreciating assets in a short period of time. It took from the 1950s to 2008 to accumulate a total debt of about 14 trillion for all of America while 16 trillion was given in the span of a few months. Can you spell insolvent.
Counterfeiting is theft. Whether a bunch of crooks bribe politicians to declare it as legal is irrelavant. It is theft of wealth from productive society.
Watch this video before posting any more v=bhMacPvc5qc
orangedac 1 month ago
@orangedac Trillions in short term loans that have already been repaid.
Yes, counterfeiting is theft. The Fed doesn't counterfeit.
That book is a joke, filled with errors. No wonder you're so confused.
jimmyrtle 1 month ago
@jimmyrtle
Common sense will tell you when banks are leveraged up 40:1 on mortgages that have depreciated for 3 years straight, they have the capasity to repay nothing. Instead creditors, savers and taxpayers have been ripped off via money printing which has been channeled to banks though below market rate govt loans which banks used to purchase govt bonds at higher rates.
Counterfeiting is theft regardless of what fancy term is used. You''re the one who's confused. Watch the video.
orangedac 1 month ago
@orangedac Banks have been deleveraging for 3 years. They have over $1 trillion in excess reserves. They've reserved 10s of billions for losses.
The video and the book it is based on is a joke.
jimmyrtle 1 month ago
@jimmyrtle
Banks have deleveraged their gambling losses onto the backs of taxpayers. When banks are leveraged 40:1 on real estate that's going down in value, there's no way a "profit" magically appears.
Excess reserves is printed money handed via the back door to banks by the Fed at the expense of taxpayers, creditors & savers. Incidentally these same banks are shareholders of the Fed.
Counterfeiting is theft. No amount of fancy paper shuffling or terminology will change that fact.
orangedac 1 month ago
@orangedac
Which losses do you imagine they've put onto the backs of taxpayers?
How did they do it?
No, excess reserves are not handed to the banks by the Fed.
Excess reserves is extra money the banks DEPOSIT at the Fed. Over and above the required reserves.
You've got everything almost exactly backwards. I blame it on the silly books you read.
Like Creature From Jekyll Island. What a steaming load of crap that was.
jimmyrtle 1 month ago
@jimmyrtle
Did you sleep through the entire 2008 securitized real estate bust which has been offloaded onto taxpayers? The govt aka taxpayers are currently backstopping trillions of mortgage backed junk on the balance sheet of the Fed.
Where do you think the record profits of 2010, 2011 for these banks came from? Where do you think money to deposit as excess reserves at the Fed comes from when bank's leveraged real estate portfolios have performed disasterously? Thin air?
Clue in!
orangedac 1 month ago
@orangedac The banks didn't put losses on the taxpayer, Fannie and Freddie did that.
jimmyrtle 1 month ago
@jimmyrtle
Fannie and Freddie did but it was not mortgage losses per say but LEVERAGE on mortgage losses that amplified the economic mess. Now guess who was gambling around with leverage, selling credit default swap on debts, watching it go boom and then offloading it on the taxpayer. Also guess what institution was used to offload the losses.
Its time to end this scam called the Federal Reserve. Intrinsically worthless paper money only invites theft, corruption & croneyism.
orangedac 1 month ago
@orangedac Feel free to send mean your intrinsically worthless paper money.
jimmyrtle 1 month ago
@jimmyrtle
I'd be more than glad to exchange my intrinsically worthless paper money for American Eagle gold coins (worth $1800) which the govt has stamped with a value of $50.
When can we make this trade? I'm willing to take a few thousand coins off your hands.
orangedac 1 month ago
@orangedac Why would I give you anything for your worthless paper?
I'll reimburse you for postage, but that's as high as I'll go.
jimmyrtle 1 month ago
@jimmyrtle
Come on now, can't we cut a deal where I exchange the intrinsically wrothless paper for the gold price the Federal Reserve still quotes on its books i.e. $42/oz.
After all, if the paper is worth what it says it and keeps its value, the $50 stamped on govt issued 1 oz American gold eagle coins should surfice.
Sillyness aside, could you tell me why a gold coin which was valued at $50 is now $1800/oz as measured by intrinsically worthless paper?
orangedac 1 month ago
@orangedac Why was gold worth $850 31 years ago and only $260 12 years ago?
Supply and demand.
jimmyrtle 1 month ago
@jimmyrtle
Supply of gold has not chaned by much, why has demand?
Fueling economic bubbles on the basis of borrowing money has run out. Govt debt 31 years ago was < 1 trillion and now is 15 trillion. Private debt is many multiples of that.
The market no longer believes more debt is going to bring more growth. The only scam left is to devalue the paper which essentially is a default on debt. Thus people are fleeing paper.
orangedac 1 month ago
@orangedac And why does the govt hang on to that worthless relic, gold, that FDR stole from productive people? Is govt afraid that gold in citizen's hands will cause them to wipe their ass w/Fed Reserve Notes? Note this!
TeaParty1776 3 days ago
@jimmyrtle 1923 German inflation. A wheelbarrow of sacred govt paper for a loaf of bread. Workers demanded wages in the morning so they could buy anything prior to decrease in the value of money later in the day. Buy anything,. even coocoo clocks, to hold value. Trash the Fed. Back to gold. Tar and feather Bernanke, Krugman.
TeaParty1776 3 days ago
@TeaParty1776 German inflation what?
What are you responding to?
Do you imagine the US had no inflation (or deflation) under the gold standard?
jimmyrtle 3 days ago
@jimmyrtle It was just an example of the destructiveness of govt inflation.
Coincidences are not causes. During the US gold standard, there was occasional govt intervention in money, banking. See Richard Salsman, Murray Rothbard. Govt inflated and bailed out banks which used the inflation to make loans which looked good because prices rose. The gold standard decreased the govt's destructiveness, which is why FDR and Nixon split gold from the economy. Without gold, economies float weightless.
TeaParty1776 1 day ago
@TeaParty1776
Repaid, short-term loans are "an example of the destructiveness of govt inflation"? How?
"Govt inflated and bailed out banks which used the inflation to make loans which looked good because prices rose"
You think banks like inflation?
jimmyrtle 1 day ago
@jimmyrtle The loans' destructiveness of sustainable production is based on their fiat nature, not their length. Banks like inflation because (1) govt lends it to banks at below market rates, allowing banks to profit by loaning it, sometimes back to govt; inflation increases (nominal) profits, increasing bank stock prices; and (3) inflated prices encourage and mislead investors into borrowing from banks. Mainstream economics lies w/short-term effects. Austrian economics is of long-term effects.
TeaParty1776 14 hours ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TeaParty1776
"The loans' destructiveness of sustainable production is based on their fiat nature, not their length"
So a Fed loan of $1 trillion for one week is just as destructive as one for 20 years?
"Banks like inflation because"
Because they like being paid back in dollars that are worth less than those they lent?
Because a 30 year fixed mortgage is worth more when high inflation starts after it is written? Wow, you are confused.
jimmyrtle 13 hours ago
@TeaParty1776 "1) govt lends it to banks at below market rates,"
Still wouldn't make inflation helpful to banks.
"inflation increases (nominal) profits"
No it doesn't.
"inflated prices encourage and mislead investors into borrowing from banks"
You mean borrowers benefit from inflation? That must mean lenders are harmed.
You've stumbled onto the truth! Glad I could help.
jimmyrtle 13 hours ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TeaParty1776 "1) govt lends it to banks at below market rates,"
Still wouldn't make inflation helpful to banks.
"inflation increases (nominal) profits"
No it doesn't.
"inflated prices encourage and mislead investors into borrowing from banks"
You mean borrowers benefit from inflation? That must mean lenders are harmed.
You've stumbled onto the truth! Glad I could help.
jimmyrtle 13 hours ago
@jimmyrtle What is TARP, and what is this thing that bank of America is trying to regain with 75 trillion dollars? Really I don't know what you are reading but i suspect that you watch way too much television.
se7ensnakes 3 days ago
@se7ensnakes TARP was a Treasury Department program.
If you think the Fed and Treasury are the same, you're dumber than I thought.
$75 trillion? What orifice did you pull that from?
jimmyrtle 3 days ago