GUNGA DIN By Rudyard Kipling

[nacho1560]

Was Kipling really a racist? Yeah he praised Gunga Din, but was he perhaps a tad disparaging and patronising. I think he was.

[thomhong1]

@nacho1560 I think you are making an honest observation... but I think we do not have sufficient perspective to really judge Kipling... its too easy and too politically correct to say Kipling was Racist... but let us suppose you are right, Kipling was a Racist.... consider the great compliment this Racist SOB was extending to Gunga Din ( in the voice of the soldier ) by saying "You're a better man than I am"... which tends to undermind the original premise of Kipling's presumed racism....

[MrMittendorf]

A truly lousy rendition.

[junkmailbull]

Terrible reading of an excellent poem. Dialect counts.

[Nationsnotregimes]

Your reading stinks IMO like NPR inklings etc.

[Marleysdreadlock]

woah, my second name is gungadin.

[tat1685]

Things that bore me shitless: this horrific reading of a great poem. The democracy of the internet makes sometimes makes me yearn for fascism.

[naylorthejailor]

if the reader who thinks kipling was a racist, would like to listen to the poem properly, they would understand that Kipling loved india, and the indian people, and he didnt try and JUMP on the racist stand, as URINAL80 thinks, what a pri*k!!!!!

[Charliebhoy58]

How sad, a beautiful piece of poetry read at 200 mph, have you no conception of the pregnant pause ? or emphasis ? did you read this whilst the bath was running ? to my mind, "If " is Rudyards greatest poem, but on here they ALL read it like the rent mans at the door, if you don't know it don't post it !!!

[2QBUFF]

Beautifully read out and much appreciated ...Rudyard Kipling at his best ..Have you seen the Movie the man who would be King ..Highly reccomended .. 8 )

[SSanf]

Thank you!

[rugbyboy198127]

@2QBUFF beautifully read? you know nothing... this is 'how not to read a poem' thank you - hear an educated englishman recite (not read) this poem and the difference is plain to see... and he wasn't a bloody racist - you PC lot are the real fascists around these days.... gee whiz it makes me angry!

[gagecube]

I cant stand the "He was a racist" routine. He wasnt, not by a long stretch. Because he dares to use the word "white" in his poems every now and then. He loved India and Indias people. Which is exactly what this poem is about.

[SSanf]

On target!

[theworkshyturk]

if he loved it so much, why was he gunning them down :p?

[nacho1560]

@gagecube He loved India, the India that was under British rule and the average Indian was seen as scum. Protesters were massacred. Kipling was a strong admirer of British Colonialism and a great lover of military action. Yes, he would have admired an Indian who gave his life for his British masters. Think on Kiplings words: "Tho' I've belted you and flayed you." Doesn't sound like a man who loved Gunga very much until he saved some Brits.

[thomhong1]

@nacho1560 You are making logical conclusions based on your POV. The World today is much different than back when RK was in circulation. I think it's difficult to judge earlier generations. Wouldn't you agree that all of 19th Century India was filled with Racists ? British Racists and Indigenious Racists.  IMO India is much better off for having been a British Colony. Could such a Diverse Population ever exist as single country ? Does India benefit from being a single country today ?

[nacho1560]

@thomhong1 No, sorry, I can never accept the argument that any nation can be better off by being slave to another. The British bullied and mistreated countless millions in our Commonwealth days. We introduced the first Concentration Camp in South Africa against the Boers. The Nazis learned a lot from us. Nowadays we tend to be followers of the USA who have taken over our role as world wide bullies. India became what it is now by rebelling and breaking away from us.

[thomhong1]

@nacho1560 Well.... I guess there is no common ground we can share here.... I really believe the world is a better place for the contributions by both the UK and the USA.... we have not been perfect.... but if China or a Caliphate become the new "world wide bullies" then I think the trangressions of our forebears will seem small in comparison....

[nacho1560]

@thomhong1 I don't know the figures but the dead in Iraq and Afghanistan caused by the intervention of our nations must be very high. If you're an innocent victim who dies in a war you don't care whether it's the Chinese or the USA who are the bullies. The US are far too quick to attack without much thought and we the Brits, like poodles, follow our masters. If a war is declared unlawful why were Bush and Blair not tried for war crimes? Their decisions killed more than Ratko Mladic.

[thomhong1]

@nacho1560 It is very difficult to discuss these matters in this forum..... We adventure in the Middle East because of oil which is the Life Blood of our Industrialized Countries.... the World Markets benefits from this... I believe Iraq is better off without Sadam..... your comments make me rethink a few things.... but, I come back to the same conclusions. Tell me what you would like to see ?

[auralconcepts]

most annoying read of a great poem i have ever heard.

[steelmagnolia58]

..."By the livin' Gawd that made you, you're a better man than I am,"

I always loved that line!

[SSanf]

Yes, it is wonderful. Sends chills down my spine whenever I read this poem.

[markbackshall]

Hi, I think it would be better if people from the USA stuck to reading poems from their own Country nad let their fellow countryman listen - but no one else.

The USA has done so much damage to the rest of the World, but the destruction of the English langauge is just too much.

For example Water, like most English words needs to voice to drop at the end, not rise in the middle then go even higher . It is not waaaAARTERR

[theqmogvlogs]

Nope, not too much, First of Kipling is making a point regarding inner value as you state and secondly, we must remember that Kipling wrote in a much, much different day, when even this was "forward thinking" despite how it would be judged if written today.

I always taught my children, that while we do not use such terms or hold such ideas today, we cannot change the works of old, nor can we erase historical accuracy from texts we write today when the context calls for such things.

[theqmogvlogs]

Not to mention, looking at such historical works and contexts, no matter how we may dislike it reminds us to be better today.

Not to mention, you read incredibly well, amazingly, really. : )

[SSanf]

Yes! This was indeed very forward thinking for the time in which it was written. Kipling clearly acknowledges that a person of worth and character can be of a non-white race, a very enlightened concept then. And, he clearly disapproved of mistreatment of anyone because of their race even while acknowledging that he was guilty of such behavior himself.

This was a masterpiece for the time. It caused people to really think about the race issue in a different way than what society was teaching them

[mrinal80]

Really?...u need to read more Kipling to understand the depth of his racism. And by the start of the 20th century people already realized Kipling and his concepts of the "white man's burden" were a pile of shite. Yes he wasnt a man of his time ; i'd say very much behind them.

An' for all 'is dirty 'ide

'E was white, clear white, inside

Enlightened indeed.

[SSanf]

Excuse me? Feel bit presumptuous today, do you? Of course, I have read "White Man's Burden". Most literate people have. In this particular poem, when he says that Gunga Din is white inside, he is acknowledging that Din and by extension others is as good as any man. He is acknowledging the similarity and integral value of people of different races. That was quite an exceptional statement at the time.

However, if you wish to see it in the worst possible light, enjoy your negativity.

[gogreen18]

Amazing poem! Kipling is legend. I could listen to you read this over and over, your voice has a very soothing quality about it.

PS-

I love your endings with the "SSanf blank blank" haha :]

[SSanf]

Thank you!

I am glad that you enjoyed it.

[beckezmail]

Me  too!

[cozmikzen]

damn! even gunga din was subject to christian persecution of hell!

[SSanf]

Yeah, even though he thought Gunga Din was this remarkable person of great character, the "heathen" was going to hell in his mind. Go figure.

[nicanicabad]

One of my fav's --can't believe you chose this poem!

pssss--i hate to beg-but my rosters are beginnning to make crowing sounds-I need to butcher and undress. I'm begging for the video ;-)-or could you just write how to gut?

[SSanf]

I will go buy a chicken today. Meanwhile, I sent you some instructions. Do you know how to pluck? You just dip them in boiling water and the feathers can be pulled right out. Any "pin feathers" can be singed off over a flame.

[nicanicabad]

Wow--if I can do it, I'd like to skin the chicken at the same time and have less bloody mess. I live in fox, mink, stoat, and badger country. Great advice Ssanf.

[beckezmail]

Hmm, me and my dad, would just slice the skin and pull it off feathers and all after or as we pull the guts out. Except for a few tendonous bits you get with the knife, you can pull it right off.

[nicanicabad]

thank you!

[AConfusedIndiVidual]

First :] Pretty serious poem, Got kinda gory, Thanks for sharing!:)

[SSanf]

Yes, Kipling can be pretty graphic. But, the point is that a person's real value is what they do not what they are born which I think is well worth remembering.