I dream of the fourth future! The more people that put that energy out there, the more plausible it becomes. We need to stop supporting big business and banks, possibly set up smaller communities and start over. Unfortunately it is not likely to happen this way. I think society would have to be forced back into this senerio and the only way I can think of is a total collapse of economy and paper money. That would do it.
The Lord of the Rings DID contain high technology - the communications devices called Palentiri. Originally used for good, but corrupted & used for evil. That's how technology operates. Look up Coltan.
The Venus Project is missing the point. Why would we want to travel round the world in the twinkling of an eye if we had no need? We invent a need and then do anything to justify it. Just back off a bit and rethink please...
In Avatar, the phenomenon which wove the people together was living. It had evolved over millennia with the folk it was bound to, and all other life on the planet. Just like our species and our Wyrd. Avatar itself, though, is a victim of its own message, and no technology could even begin to compare with real, living nature. Avatar is not alive, it is a half-billion dollar puppet show telling an age-old story. The Tree of Souls - the tree IS the soul. A mythological motif which Tolken also used.
very fascinating and enlightening! but do you think it will be ever viable for human race to re-enter the "natural order" ? i mean the reason man left the natural order in the first place was that we started to develop cognitive abilities, and this allowed us to start "hoarding" resources for our own species and exploiting the less sentient species of earth as lessors. will it ever be possible for a species with the ability to invent, to over come the greed of technological advancement?
there are thousands of cultures with cognitive abilities that do not build civilizations and exploit their world. this is not an issue of humanity. humanity is not a virus; civilization is a virus. this is not a species issue, it's a culture issue.
i think civilization is a default issue with humanity, the formation of which is somewhat inevitable. in our world, there was bound to be more dominant cultures, and the dominant cultures tend to absorb the other passive cultures. the dominating culture will inevitably form civilization to exploit resources.
now that we are starting to realize the past was more stable, the fourth future seems to be a option for the direction of humanity, but as humanity has struggled so much to get to where we are today, would humanity ever choose the forth future over the glamor of the first 2, even at the risk of the 3rd?
Do you know any animals in nature that actually consciously contemplate and spend hours and days and years of their lives trying to help other living things in this world as well as save species from extinction.
The difference between our 2nd coming to the natural order will be a conscious decision as opposed to instinct. We Are advanced. the transition to advancement simply seems to be full of imbalance.
I tend to think it will be a combination of them all... If it were, then we would return to the earth as humans living with highly evolved technology in harmony with the planet and other star systems ...so that the idea of the past civilization is completely wiped out from existence as we know it.
This 4th Future is ignored because it is really a past. You are a hopeless Romantic but lack the intelligence of another Romantic, Rousseau. Civilisation always has discontents, you are right to be so but you are wrong to think that you can avoid it without a return to barbarism. How about a 4th future with technology but where it is operated for the good of mankind in general, sustainably and without massive increase in population. If you are going to be Utopian, do it properly!
How about what you suggested? that's the First Future. The Fourth Future does not require control of the planet, nor is it a Utopia.
Civilization IS barbarism, if you objectively define civilization and objectively define barbarism.
Civilization does not "have discontents." Civilization is INHERENTLY unsustainable and INHERENTLY exploitative. feel free to look up any of the big words i've used for an accurate definition.
"Civilisation is barbarism", true in that it doles out more brutality, in absolute terms at least. Yet it isn't true, the barbarism of a Nazi return to blood and soil also involved the destruction of civilisational goods: art, poetry, cathedrals, life worlds etc.
Difference between your future and the past? None!
My future was not super technological as in #1; just today's, but it'd not be obsessed with technology, as even you are, but with a simple universal ratio or ration-alle.
Marijuana puffing Luddites on YouTube - isn't technology great!?
I would rather the world suffer utter annihilation than give up the opportunities for greatness and transcendence made possible by technological innovation.
And from the looks of things, the majority of the planet is willing to make that gamble as well...
Oh well, I guess you need something to ramble about when you're high. Hell talking this junk has probably even gotten you laid at a party or two.
Any form of culture is a civizilation. An un civilized society means a society in which there is no form of order, quite similar to animals in the wild. Which is fine, but we have the conciousness to make things work peacefully and collectively, so why no use it?
The only way we will be able to only live on this planet, is if we stop dominating the world and extremely limit births. I see your frustration with the idea of going to space, but we are running out of room.
I always thought it was "civil" as in "civilize" which is "To bring up from barbarism; to train to live with others." We can decide what kind of "civizilation" we want to be. Right now, we are a convienence dependant, while other parts of the world struggle to stay alive everyday. The problem does not lie the idea of being a society. It lies in the fact that many people are comferable with how the world is for them at that moment. Its a mindset thing.
the 3rd and 4th futures are the only feasible ones.
the problem with the first two futures is that it implies that resources are infinite which is a load of bullshit. let's see people start talking about space and robots and such nonsense when our economy starts collapsing from a lack of cheap energy.
Technology is only progress because we say it is. If we stop considering technology to be progress, we will easily be able to rewild and save the world.
Why do we need these toys?
I don't want game boys and iPods and floating cars and televisions. I've had them all and they don't make me happy.
The majority of people in America don't like their lives, and all Americans in the top 5% of the world. Anthropologists have found that people in primitive cultures are far more happy than we are.
You have an amazing point here. I have always been a major fan of Science Fiction. SciFi is the one medium that really examines and tries to imagine the future. The one thing that always caused my brain to short out was that most visions of the future was this civilization with bigger and better toys. I just don't see that as happening.
You gotta remind the people to expand the consciousness and remember that were already on our spaceship and we're already headed towards our intergalactic destination.
dont we have to go through something like the 3rd future to get to the 4th... i mean i remember you saying something about if we wait to long. but after the 3rd future how many possibe ways could life go?
i love this video man! The fourth future, it sounds very idealistic. now i have something to catch peoples attention when i start taking about civilization and everything... i'l; be like so, have you heard about the FOURTH future, then i wil tell this story.
oh, for christ's sake. their spirit WAS crushed. they WERE crushed. they were raped and murdered and driven off cliffs. their children were stolen away and re-educated to hate themselves. they were intentionally riddled with disease, they were starved and beaten and enslaved and crushed, spiritually and physically.
I think you should hear out why they think we need to go to space.
It is inevitable our star will burn out destroying our planet and causing suffering just the same if we do not come up with technology for such a task. I am not suggesting this society can do such a thing however, and I think we need to eventually "build" a new society that is not inefficient about resource extraction.
this is a spurious argument. the space race is about the military, not about saving the human race when 'our star burns out' (by the way, no suffering, just no planet. it wouldn't take all that long).
do you really think that 'everyone' would be saved? or only the select?
this diseased culture is based on efficiency. you think it's inefficient? it's all about efficiency. the assembly line, the atom bomb, the microwave, the drone, all of the crap that is, above all, efficient.
didn't read the other comments, but I don't think the futures are mutually exclusive. I think the best would be going to space and the 4th. Using technology to make life easy but being careful not to outstep our bounds in nature. Eventually we have to go to space to survive.
How is such a social system possible with such a high human population?
I would love a video clarifying (a) the characteristics of civilizational social systems distinguished against (b) the characteristics of a non-civiliizational social system.
I think it would improve the quality of the argument you have been developing .
yeah, I was pitching that dream I had as a movie to some of my film friends...and said the same thing to them...this movie hasn't been made, and it needs to be. A future after the collapse where everything isn't all fucked up. Where people have realized what happened, and found healthy ways to live. There are some cool ways to make that movie exciting and fun...and still pass along that vision of that very possible future.
I do think it would work best as an animated movie. I wouldn't even know where to begin at getting it made into a real film though...maybe write a screenplay. That premise though is definitely something that needs to be put out there for people to see...I don't even think that it ever crosses people's minds as a possible future, and that's a major obstacle standing in the way of a great awakening.
a book. it was kind of a classic, but i never got around to reading it. yeah, we could definitely do this, figure out the studio stuff later on. i'm going to check out that book.
zack that's very helpful, the fourth world, it's amazing actually and makes sense how that happens.
Some old cartoons that have the fourth world in them somewhat are "fantastic planet" it shows some of the "memes" in people through the aliens and the humans. an other is light years/gandahar. both deal with the fourth world but also tie in the other 3 and show typical human fears. both on yt. it seems more recently like last 10-15 years the 4th has been culled out of consciousness
also, no matter how much damage we think we do to the planet. it will always survive. the earth has seen forces of destruction far greater than anything we could dream of producing. the point is the earth will regrow. it will rebound. 1million years is a blink for the earth. mass extinction is not uncommon. culling of all species is a cycle
Think about the way you use the term 'entities.' Include the technology of the 1st two futures as entities, then you will have a 5th future adding 1, 2 and 4 which is possible, because remember the old maxim - it is easier to create something new than take it away from somebody else. You don't want to 'bring down' civilization, you want to change it, include it, transform it and change it. That's the only way it will work.
I think the word you were looking for on that last one was Transcendentalist (not correcting you to be a dick). ;-)
It is amazing when you talk to a majority of people, they do see or can only perceive of these very specific types of futures that don't include moving towards a return to a sustainable, healthy environment (which subsequently would mean a healthier life). Its perceived as somehow moving backwards. Its preposterous to think that way.
I mean it's sad that people think the green movement is helping, that it's just the symptoms we should cover up. Like things will get better if we keep going like we are but with improvement on how we do it.
Dystopia is a good word. You don't hear that word enough. What we have now is basically a small group of corrupt, greedy people who have derailed the society. 1 and 2 are b.s. 3 is the lame doomsday scenario which may or may not happen. 4 sounds like Amish country. But good video. You shouldn't smoke on camera. Children might be watching. Remember the children! The children!
according to what, 4 sounds like Amish country? the Amish wear big black suits and are religious and drive buggies and shit. Why would we do any of that? what made you think "Amish country?"
i haven't posted in awhile. you are on to it. I am a prophet as well. I would like to speak to you about the theory. what everyone does and interacts with is about the theory. It's not technically a theory. It's the truth. And it is strong now....But I'm jus a regular dude, right?
We have to work things out here, because wherever we go, our dysfunction goes with us. Once the inner disorder or dysfunction is eradicated, technology will have it's rightful place, but as always, we put the cart before the horse.
wow, awesome video. the way you simplified this obvious, yet unarticulated issue reminds me of daniel quinn. thank you, im gona spread this concept like wildfire
Yeah, i mean returning to nature with god would be cool. But i'd rather expand into space "in a good type of civlization" to. The idea of space is pretty cool. I myself believe civilization can be good, its just not going to happe on this earth due to about 100,000,000 variables. I think a combination of the 4th future + space would be the idea scenerio for myself.
I have a friend who roleplays his rl character when he plays video games. Hes big into saving everyone. So in fallout 3 the video game; a game about nuclear war and your left against bad guys; he has to try to save everyone. He thinks hes the "good guy" by doing this. But i think hes the bad guy for saving people in a shitty world. IMo its the same thing with space. Sure if we can get to another earth like world we save civ. But do we want to keep growing the disease?
Remember that Star Trek episode that was about people who were against civilization? "stepping into Eden, yeah, brother..." In that episode, the anti-civ types were portrayed as rude and nuts. They there were the people blissed out on the plant spores..that worked until Kirk pooped on their party.
But I can't really think of a ecotopian "future" *movie*. The Findhorn community people are sort of ecotopian..they specifically work with nature spirits.
the fourth future is the healthiest concept but... i guess healthy and respectful is difficult to truely understand in todays day and age. because from birth we've been raised to think the antithesis of balance is justified and unconcesequential.
earth is in space, so... whats the need to visit another planet where they're maybe appriciating what thier planet has to offer. unless man, wants to take over what they got and enslave ppl native to thier planet.
unless we waited till we were envited to thier planet which we probably wouldnt. lol
or if there was another planet with no life, that had elements that would sustain what our bodies were made of... would we make civilization there?
Resources become depleted when the rate at which they are consumed exceeds the rate at which they are replenished. In the case of many crucial resources such as fossil fuels, uranium, and metals, the rate of replenishment is negligible compared to the rate of consumption, so as far as we are concerned the amount of usable resources is shrinking permanently every day.
if we went to space would be visit other planets with life forms that are satisfied with thier planet? would be want to be in a space ship our entire life? or... start a civilization on another planet? whats wrong with just accepting the 4th future and loving what we're actually made of??? space is just the matter that carries other planets... planets just like this one.... give or take an element
I think about the fourth future all the time everything I do I assume that in the future all this energy wont be available, and I think about how I will get things done without it and what life will look like. but yes there is strong resistance.
I mean if we don't get off this earth and colonize other places, then all our eggs will be in this one basket (the earth). And if it gets hit by a comet or somesuch, then we'll all die in one hit.
don't you see how silly and backwards that logic is....?
"we'll all die in one hit?" that's your fear? well, i got news for ya. we'll all die in one hit a hell of a lot sooner than we would if a comet hit us if we don't stop this culture.
we're trying to save the world, but we're actually just murdering the entirety of it.
if we bring down civilization we can work on having a few good years left before we all die from a comet. i'd rather go out like that than from nuclear war or eco-collapse.
The way I see it, the vast bulk of human beings probably aren't intelligent enough to turn things around before they poison themselves to death. I wish they were, but I just can't see it, realistically. Perhaps after 95% of the human race has died out we'll have a better chance of rebuilding. Or perhaps not. But I don't think we should give up trying to change things here on earth. We need to *both* change things here on earth, as well as stop putting all our eggs in one basket.
earlier it seemed your stand was 'people are stupid.' now it looks like your stand is 'people are stupid, and so are animals.' or maybe it's 'every dead thing died because it was stupid.'
also, industrial civilization will only let you put your eggs in its basket alone--it allows no other possibilities
My point is that we are messing things up because we are too much like all other animals. We aren't civilized *enough*. Returning to a tribal existence won't solve anything. We need to become smart. The "one basket" I was refering to was this earth. We need to spread our seed much more widely.
This sounds so familiar. I'm involved with an anarchist activist group in my town and tend to see this on and off, though as the destructive nature of civilization becomes more and more obvious people's minds do change. Just the other day someone asked about borrowing Endgame, so that's a start.
Jehovah's Witnesses teach that there is no Heaven and no Hell but there will be a Paradise on Earth. The Fourth Future as you refer to it here reminded me of that. If you do a little research into the JW's you will realize however that they are a mind control type of cult that some refer to as The Armageddon Cult. I grew up all around them and it takes years and years to de-program but I did want to mention they do entertain similiar ideas as the Fourth Future.
Great video, Zack. Did you tell these environmentalists about the fourth future? What did they think, did they think it sounded like a better and more viable possibility than the whole "advanced" and "space" future?
As in, we could never get to that point? But did they think it was desirable, if it were possible? Or did they think that it was maybe ignoring many of the possibilities that comes with civilized life? Just wondering.
pc, aren't we both hoping for certain "possibilities" here? And besides, these environmentalists seemed to think what you're pulling for isn't a even a possibility at this point, much less a reality. There's a reason (many in fact) why people consider it so "fringe".
Here's a thought; wouldn't overpopulation get even worse? I picture people having more sex and guess what, no condoms (er, natural ones, maybe? nah) or other birth control, or abortion, do you expect people to just "know better"?
When did I say the poor are destroying the planet? The overall population is what's doing it (but yeah, the poor usually have the most babies). I don't doubt that the fatcats destroy more than your average garbage picker, but we're simply talking about population overall.
Yeah, we're free to have babies... but it's not usually good to have tons... and pregnant girls couldn't get abortions... I guess you're anti-abortion by necessity.
what i'm saying is the 'people are having too many babies' argument is usually made regarding the poor, and i see it is more of an elitist position than anything else
the overall average is meaningless; if all of the population lived like americans, we'd need four extra planets. if they all lived like amazon natives, we'd need one planet, and the planet would be a whole lot healthier
We dont need technology to survive. A windmill wont feed starving ethiopian children. A solar panel wont help a impoverished New Delhi culture. The NWO IS part of "New Age", a useless black hole of esoteric knowledge that consist of UFOs, Terence Mckenna and how HAARP is microwaving our brains. Im more worried about the microwave in my house to be honest yall. Im sure the honey bees appreciated it when I threw the thing out the window!!!!! Just say no to giving your food kimo before you eat it
i was thinkin bout this the other day bra... even if ..... it would never be the same because the earth is so polluted okay if all the buildings and citys where abandoned even destroyed and broke down where would all the rubble where the remnant be...... its not like its biodegradable there no where to dispose of this mass trash that covers the earth and this would need to b for the eath to be healthy and give forth fruit and for the animals to be healthy and us we can be [read below this]
we an be free.. but the earth will never be like it supposed to be fully the eart is to raped and mutilated mainlly covered by concrete and trash... see what im saying.... our freedom will "be".... but not how it should be "naturally natural" not all the way feel me.....
the quicker we stop the advance of civilization, the more natural landscapes will be salvaged. There are vast areas still relatively pristine, but civilization is destroying them by the second. the amazon rainforest will be gone in probably 20 years if deforestation continues at current rates.
there is dioxin in the breast milk of indigenous women in the far north
there isn't a place on earth that isn't affected by industrial pollution
those areas that you think are preserved, like national forests? they are logged by multinational corporations and have more roads than the u.s. interstate highway system
what if we sent the garbage to space?? jokes aside, theirs a mushroom that grows through concrete and fungus/bacteria that eat and neutralize petrol chemicals. natural fungus. Plants that absorb mercury and radioactive compounds. sad is that industry is pushing gmo stuff like gmo poplar trees that work faster and can be cut and moved somewhere else to deal with it..
so it would take time and working together but we could restore things. we already have biodegradable plastics that work for all our needs until we lose the addiction to these things. That could change right now. just need to believe;)
this culture is based on fragmentation and isolation for a reason--it keeps people from taking care of each other, and keeps them dependent on the system for support
Yeh I hear you .. you and i both know how crucially long that would take tho many generations ..MANY.... but yeh basically if anything will be redeemed to us people 2gether or individually we will remain in this wasteland feel me... but that doesnt at all discourage me.. i jus had to mention this aspect of the situation feel me....
it's actually pretty inspiring how fast some pollution can be absorbed by these plants but most have to be moved to different places after to take out the pollution. the oil eating fungus works REally fast. Water would take most time.. Way I see it that would make lots of "Jobs" in the mean time if we could work together and make the choice. ya it would be a really tough choice to make for most and it's very important to feel that;) The fear involved would make most believe gmo is only way..
Dont Miss my point Sis Im speaking of OUR Lifetime and even many lifetimes over... what im saying is yes we looking to change for the futere generations of course... but we cant be 1 sided EVERY generation of positive thinkers before us [excluding a few people] heve thought thought "ONLY "in the terms of long term and succeeded in not much at all but but a talking head "as they say"... we are LiVing NOW and right NOW is always the time for action otherwise the future wilol "STAY" The Future
Too look at it one way is only perpetuating history... we gotta think long Term and ALO Right NOW... while we still got breath to live and BE different.. and just "BE" so no dont get me wrong my statement wasnt a hopeless statement nor a statement of ignorance jus stating what ive heard no one mention in this convo which should bring about conversation which is good..... WE are NOW.... lets also look at that cleary.... we LIVE once our purpose isnt always plant to to let the next generation reap
the Truth has been given to us to act on.. a free man is free before he bust out the prison with a tank even while he still in there he knew in his mind he had no obligation to be a slave to another man.. That mans children will be Free because not only did he mentally but he Physically freed himself so his children wont be "BORN" in slavery this is how you REALLY think for the oncoming generation.. by stop bowing yourself... understand Bless.......
Every new piece of technology causes chaos to existing ways of being.
As technology advances, it reverses the characteristics of every situation again and again. The age of automation is going to be the age of 'do it yourself.' - Marshall Mcluhan
We become what we behold. We shape our tools (technology) and then our tools shape us.
well...fortunately the green minded actually DO want the IV/ecotopia...and i am sure we are mostly doubtful of a technocratic path..bear in mind our sheer numbers and the need for some community would require some sort of civilization model...interaction dynamis..just functional rather than what we have now...
I'm not sure whether I'm against technology or not. I'm against alienating technology like the internet for the most part, but I'm not sure if I'm necessarily against the space thing. I can't accurately say how space travel could exist outside of civilization, because I don't know if it can (but I really doubt it).
I hope you can see what I'm saying. I'm not sure if i can...
maybe you should ask yourself why you value space exploration. what would we be missing out on if we stopped going to space? is it something that is worth the cost of all the violence and waste that goes into advanced technology?
I'm not sure whether technology inherently leads to violence, though, because it's development has been for the uses of power, within an already-violent system. Technology has been used as a tool to enhance violence, but I'm not sure whether technology itself causes violence.
I don't think space exploration has any sort of utilitarian use. I think maintaining knowledge is very important, though. So if it CAN be done without destroying the land base, without violence, and without hierarchy
regardless of whether you think technology is value-free (I don't think it is at all), you should consider that advanced technologies such as computers, spacecraft, and skyscrapers always depend on destroying the environment and exploiting people to obtain the resources and labor power required to sustain them. hence, they are inherently unsustainable.
I think we shouldn't rule out the fact that we may be able to find a way to make spacecrafts without exploiting labor (which is obviously very possible) and destroying the environment (which may be possible).
Hell yes! there are a few of us, this is a great video to sway more though!
simonkism 9 months ago
I say the thrid future was pretty much epitomized in "The Road"....
secrets0stolen 1 year ago
definitely the most thought provoking video ive seen on here this year ! respect
midierror 1 year ago
Desteni is the fourth future - that is Equality as LIFE
MarlenLife 1 year ago
I dream of the fourth future! The more people that put that energy out there, the more plausible it becomes. We need to stop supporting big business and banks, possibly set up smaller communities and start over. Unfortunately it is not likely to happen this way. I think society would have to be forced back into this senerio and the only way I can think of is a total collapse of economy and paper money. That would do it.
jjking78 2 years ago
@zzz33333
i listen to you..
u have ur answer - the venus project is like the 1st and 2nd future PLUS the 4th future.
imagine urself living in a Hut like lord of the rings but all equiped with super tecnology full integrated with organic beings and plants.
nature is just a process of transformation for the atoms, a self organization created by entropy energy, and you are too.
you have a perfect exemple of that-
AVATAR. imagine the tree of souls being howr tecnology
pakau 2 years ago
The Lord of the Rings DID contain high technology - the communications devices called Palentiri. Originally used for good, but corrupted & used for evil. That's how technology operates. Look up Coltan.
The Venus Project is missing the point. Why would we want to travel round the world in the twinkling of an eye if we had no need? We invent a need and then do anything to justify it. Just back off a bit and rethink please...
FerrousFred 1 year ago
In Avatar, the phenomenon which wove the people together was living. It had evolved over millennia with the folk it was bound to, and all other life on the planet. Just like our species and our Wyrd. Avatar itself, though, is a victim of its own message, and no technology could even begin to compare with real, living nature. Avatar is not alive, it is a half-billion dollar puppet show telling an age-old story. The Tree of Souls - the tree IS the soul. A mythological motif which Tolken also used.
FerrousFred 1 year ago
very fascinating and enlightening! but do you think it will be ever viable for human race to re-enter the "natural order" ? i mean the reason man left the natural order in the first place was that we started to develop cognitive abilities, and this allowed us to start "hoarding" resources for our own species and exploiting the less sentient species of earth as lessors. will it ever be possible for a species with the ability to invent, to over come the greed of technological advancement?
b2c2552 2 years ago
there are thousands of cultures with cognitive abilities that do not build civilizations and exploit their world. this is not an issue of humanity. humanity is not a virus; civilization is a virus. this is not a species issue, it's a culture issue.
zzz33333 2 years ago
@zzz33333
i think civilization is a default issue with humanity, the formation of which is somewhat inevitable. in our world, there was bound to be more dominant cultures, and the dominant cultures tend to absorb the other passive cultures. the dominating culture will inevitably form civilization to exploit resources.
b2c2552 2 years ago
now that we are starting to realize the past was more stable, the fourth future seems to be a option for the direction of humanity, but as humanity has struggled so much to get to where we are today, would humanity ever choose the forth future over the glamor of the first 2, even at the risk of the 3rd?
b2c2552 2 years ago
@b2c2552
Do you know any animals in nature that actually consciously contemplate and spend hours and days and years of their lives trying to help other living things in this world as well as save species from extinction.
The difference between our 2nd coming to the natural order will be a conscious decision as opposed to instinct. We Are advanced. the transition to advancement simply seems to be full of imbalance.
much love!
socratiz 2 years ago
Well said well said!
I tend to think it will be a combination of them all... If it were, then we would return to the earth as humans living with highly evolved technology in harmony with the planet and other star systems ...so that the idea of the past civilization is completely wiped out from existence as we know it.
There are the 4.
VvidEye 2 years ago
This 4th Future is ignored because it is really a past. You are a hopeless Romantic but lack the intelligence of another Romantic, Rousseau. Civilisation always has discontents, you are right to be so but you are wrong to think that you can avoid it without a return to barbarism. How about a 4th future with technology but where it is operated for the good of mankind in general, sustainably and without massive increase in population. If you are going to be Utopian, do it properly!
Zeitschen 2 years ago
How about what you suggested? that's the First Future. The Fourth Future does not require control of the planet, nor is it a Utopia.
Civilization IS barbarism, if you objectively define civilization and objectively define barbarism.
Civilization does not "have discontents." Civilization is INHERENTLY unsustainable and INHERENTLY exploitative. feel free to look up any of the big words i've used for an accurate definition.
zzz33333 2 years ago
"Civilisation is barbarism", true in that it doles out more brutality, in absolute terms at least. Yet it isn't true, the barbarism of a Nazi return to blood and soil also involved the destruction of civilisational goods: art, poetry, cathedrals, life worlds etc.
Difference between your future and the past? None!
My future was not super technological as in #1; just today's, but it'd not be obsessed with technology, as even you are, but with a simple universal ratio or ration-alle.
Zeitschen 2 years ago
Marijuana puffing Luddites on YouTube - isn't technology great!?
I would rather the world suffer utter annihilation than give up the opportunities for greatness and transcendence made possible by technological innovation.
And from the looks of things, the majority of the planet is willing to make that gamble as well...
Oh well, I guess you need something to ramble about when you're high. Hell talking this junk has probably even gotten you laid at a party or two.
Rob271828314 2 years ago
"I would rather the world suffer utter annihilation than give up ... technological innovation."
straight from the horse's mouth, folks.
zzz33333 2 years ago
Any form of culture is a civizilation. An un civilized society means a society in which there is no form of order, quite similar to animals in the wild. Which is fine, but we have the conciousness to make things work peacefully and collectively, so why no use it?
The only way we will be able to only live on this planet, is if we stop dominating the world and extremely limit births. I see your frustration with the idea of going to space, but we are running out of room.
Padooshka 2 years ago
wild animal societies have form and order; so do uncivilized human societies.
civilization is a city-based human culture. that's why it's got the prefix "civi" in it like "citizen" "civics" or "city."
civilization requires domination of the earth. only way to stop dominating the earth is to end civilization.
zzz33333 2 years ago
I always thought it was "civil" as in "civilize" which is "To bring up from barbarism; to train to live with others." We can decide what kind of "civizilation" we want to be. Right now, we are a convienence dependant, while other parts of the world struggle to stay alive everyday. The problem does not lie the idea of being a society. It lies in the fact that many people are comferable with how the world is for them at that moment. Its a mindset thing.
Padooshka 2 years ago
societies create mindsets.
zzz33333 2 years ago
lets keep earth alive, lets not live like the jetsons and lets not kill the earth before we figure out if we can go to the stars...
akpret 2 years ago
dope
been a minute
pseudonymmmm 2 years ago
the 3rd and 4th futures are the only feasible ones.
the problem with the first two futures is that it implies that resources are infinite which is a load of bullshit. let's see people start talking about space and robots and such nonsense when our economy starts collapsing from a lack of cheap energy.
vibrantlight1103 2 years ago
Have you read "Industrial Society and it's Future?" If not check it out!
StrivfeJokerHipHop 2 years ago
This is one of Zs best videos.
RVqueen 2 years ago
thanks! i like this one too
zzz33333 2 years ago
Technology is only progress because we say it is. If we stop considering technology to be progress, we will easily be able to rewild and save the world.
Why do we need these toys?
I don't want game boys and iPods and floating cars and televisions. I've had them all and they don't make me happy.
The majority of people in America don't like their lives, and all Americans in the top 5% of the world. Anthropologists have found that people in primitive cultures are far more happy than we are.
hillexallen 2 years ago
They make me happy. :P I bet you are just spitting in anger because he is using one of these "toys" to promote your thoughts too.
MRHollen 2 years ago
What about the fifth and sixth futures? Virtual reality or actually doing civilization right for once?
Apologeomasis 2 years ago
those both fall under the second future which is technotopia on planet earth
zzz33333 2 years ago
You have an amazing point here. I have always been a major fan of Science Fiction. SciFi is the one medium that really examines and tries to imagine the future. The one thing that always caused my brain to short out was that most visions of the future was this civilization with bigger and better toys. I just don't see that as happening.
walterwz 2 years ago
You gotta remind the people to expand the consciousness and remember that were already on our spaceship and we're already headed towards our intergalactic destination.
metaphysicslab 2 years ago
i call it a earthship, and where is this destination?
Like2MilkGoats 2 years ago
dont we have to go through something like the 3rd future to get to the 4th... i mean i remember you saying something about if we wait to long. but after the 3rd future how many possibe ways could life go?
softparade51 2 years ago
i love this video man! The fourth future, it sounds very idealistic. now i have something to catch peoples attention when i start taking about civilization and everything... i'l; be like so, have you heard about the FOURTH future, then i wil tell this story.
Thanx Z!
softparade51 2 years ago
and btw when i said the native American peoples were 'crushed' I in no way meant their SPIRIT!!!
zezt 2 years ago
oh, for christ's sake. their spirit WAS crushed. they WERE crushed. they were raped and murdered and driven off cliffs. their children were stolen away and re-educated to hate themselves. they were intentionally riddled with disease, they were starved and beaten and enslaved and crushed, spiritually and physically.
zzz33333 2 years ago
yeah, and terrible drug and alcohol problems, I aint thick, but their spirit is still strong for many. And videos are at Youtube show this!!
zezt 2 years ago
Interesting theory. Who is this psychic? Did you ever find out?
VinnfordSansbury 2 years ago
no, but it's not really important
zzz33333 2 years ago
Actually, its Dr. Chet Snow.
VinnfordSansbury 2 years ago
Actually, it's Helen Wambach.
zzz33333 2 years ago
Ha ha. It turned out to be both of them. I should have listened closer the first time. ;-)
VinnfordSansbury 2 years ago
I think you should hear out why they think we need to go to space.
It is inevitable our star will burn out destroying our planet and causing suffering just the same if we do not come up with technology for such a task. I am not suggesting this society can do such a thing however, and I think we need to eventually "build" a new society that is not inefficient about resource extraction.
Seedr0 2 years ago
this is a spurious argument. the space race is about the military, not about saving the human race when 'our star burns out' (by the way, no suffering, just no planet. it wouldn't take all that long).
do you really think that 'everyone' would be saved? or only the select?
this diseased culture is based on efficiency. you think it's inefficient? it's all about efficiency. the assembly line, the atom bomb, the microwave, the drone, all of the crap that is, above all, efficient.
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
didn't read the other comments, but I don't think the futures are mutually exclusive. I think the best would be going to space and the 4th. Using technology to make life easy but being careful not to outstep our bounds in nature. Eventually we have to go to space to survive.
woodenships 2 years ago
using industrial technology to 'make life easier' cancels out the fourth future, so you can't have both
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
life is not easy. the other day you were talking about rioting in the streets.
"eventually we have to go to space to survive" that would be ironic, wouldn't it, if we killed our whole planet trying to go to space, huh?
zzz33333 2 years ago
(the above comment is directed towards woodenships)
zzz33333 2 years ago
how does a 'non-civilization' social system work?
How is such a social system possible with such a high human population?
I would love a video clarifying (a) the characteristics of civilizational social systems distinguished against (b) the characteristics of a non-civiliizational social system.
I think it would improve the quality of the argument you have been developing .
nakedpower 2 years ago
okay i'm back
i made that video that you would love to see
it's called 'greed'
zzz33333 has made that video too, a thousand times, a thousand different ways
let me know if it clarifies....
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
Quinn's speech "Reaching for the Future with All Three Hands"
themajikat 2 years ago
yeah, I was pitching that dream I had as a movie to some of my film friends...and said the same thing to them...this movie hasn't been made, and it needs to be. A future after the collapse where everything isn't all fucked up. Where people have realized what happened, and found healthy ways to live. There are some cool ways to make that movie exciting and fun...and still pass along that vision of that very possible future.
ItsFilthy 2 years ago
why don't we do it then? have you ever read ecotopia (i haven't) ?
ozjthomas 2 years ago
ecotopia? nope...never heard of it. what is it?
I do think it would work best as an animated movie. I wouldn't even know where to begin at getting it made into a real film though...maybe write a screenplay. That premise though is definitely something that needs to be put out there for people to see...I don't even think that it ever crosses people's minds as a possible future, and that's a major obstacle standing in the way of a great awakening.
ItsFilthy 2 years ago
a book. it was kind of a classic, but i never got around to reading it. yeah, we could definitely do this, figure out the studio stuff later on. i'm going to check out that book.
ozjthomas 2 years ago
ive seen one movie, The Emerald Forest, that tries to get at this idea. check it out, its really good.
as for making another, im down. i think we could make a good one.
cchilder 2 years ago
this is excellent, thank you
i am sorry i missed it when it was posted
i would post 'truetopia' as a response to this if i had it ;^)
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
zack that's very helpful, the fourth world, it's amazing actually and makes sense how that happens.
Some old cartoons that have the fourth world in them somewhat are "fantastic planet" it shows some of the "memes" in people through the aliens and the humans. an other is light years/gandahar. both deal with the fourth world but also tie in the other 3 and show typical human fears. both on yt. it seems more recently like last 10-15 years the 4th has been culled out of consciousness
Beardedyoungman 2 years ago
You are so awesome. I have missed your clarity during my yt hiatus.
QuinnEGorges 2 years ago
great video zzz!
/agree with dmt1221 last comment
SCUZ06 2 years ago
i just say. live in the now. and create the world you want to live in
"be the change you want to see in the world"
DMT1221 2 years ago
that's very original. can i quote you on that?
zzz33333 2 years ago
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SCUZ06 2 years ago
Comment removed
DMT1221 2 years ago
Yes- im sure Ghandi does not care who uses his quote
Is the forth Future like the hippie commune idea? whats the same whats the difference?
DMT1221 2 years ago
the hippie commune idea is basically the same concept as a "Tribe" which is the original human social organization, not "civilization."
zzz33333 2 years ago
also, no matter how much damage we think we do to the planet. it will always survive. the earth has seen forces of destruction far greater than anything we could dream of producing. the point is the earth will regrow. it will rebound. 1million years is a blink for the earth. mass extinction is not uncommon. culling of all species is a cycle
DMT1221 2 years ago
so if someone is trying to kill your sister, you won't stop him, because, after all, she's going to die some day anyway?
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
Comment removed
DMT1221 2 years ago
Is the fourth future similar to the hippie commune idea?
How would this be brought forward?
Where would everyone sleep eat and poop?
Would all the worlds civilizations have to fall in order for this to happen? is there any where i can read up on this?
DMT1221 2 years ago
5☆★☆★☆
matrixcmitech 2 years ago
Think about the way you use the term 'entities.' Include the technology of the 1st two futures as entities, then you will have a 5th future adding 1, 2 and 4 which is possible, because remember the old maxim - it is easier to create something new than take it away from somebody else. You don't want to 'bring down' civilization, you want to change it, include it, transform it and change it. That's the only way it will work.
sandraeggers 2 years ago
change and change, huh?
what about "inherently unsustainable?"
zzz33333 2 years ago
I get the feeling that you are not really thinking. Lotsa luck with that. LOL
sandraeggers 2 years ago
sandraeggers civilization says *it* is the only way that will work
consider there is no one right way to live
consider that something that is fundamentally flawed cannot be fixed--it would be like putting wallpaper on a house with a flawed foundation
and lastly, consider that zzz33333 might be one of the brightest people you've ever met, in the real world or online
just because some people don''t parrot the dominant culture doesn't mean they 'aren't really thinking'
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
I think the word you were looking for on that last one was Transcendentalist (not correcting you to be a dick). ;-)
It is amazing when you talk to a majority of people, they do see or can only perceive of these very specific types of futures that don't include moving towards a return to a sustainable, healthy environment (which subsequently would mean a healthier life). Its perceived as somehow moving backwards. Its preposterous to think that way.
mconn2112 2 years ago
That is very saddd -__-
CoffeesIsBack 2 years ago
why?
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
I mean it's sad that people think the green movement is helping, that it's just the symptoms we should cover up. Like things will get better if we keep going like we are but with improvement on how we do it.
CoffeesIsBack 2 years ago
that is very sad, coffee
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
Dystopia is a good word. You don't hear that word enough. What we have now is basically a small group of corrupt, greedy people who have derailed the society. 1 and 2 are b.s. 3 is the lame doomsday scenario which may or may not happen. 4 sounds like Amish country. But good video. You shouldn't smoke on camera. Children might be watching. Remember the children! The children!
bulafritz 2 years ago
"4 sounds like Amish country"
according to what, 4 sounds like Amish country? the Amish wear big black suits and are religious and drive buggies and shit. Why would we do any of that? what made you think "Amish country?"
zzz33333 2 years ago
You said "eat what God provides". That's how the Amish live. They produce their own food.
bulafritz 2 years ago
actually, if you asked them, i'm sure they'd say that God produces their food, not them
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
there are people who do not "produce" their food, they just "eat" it...
earth produces it.
zzz33333 2 years ago
Word... i was thinking the 4th option from the start :) run to the hills !!
greens4507 2 years ago
good reminder....
i believe we agree.
88simran 2 years ago
Good topic. I understand you better when you are not yelling.
emwharton 2 years ago
Very few believe in the forth future. Maybe they are the only ones who will get there?
Captolamia 2 years ago
sooner or later all of humanity will be in the fourth future, barring total annihilation
we have the choice of how soon and how easy that transition will be--the more we put it off, the worse it will be for all living things
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
Hey man it's sammmy13...
i haven't posted in awhile. you are on to it. I am a prophet as well. I would like to speak to you about the theory. what everyone does and interacts with is about the theory. It's not technically a theory. It's the truth. And it is strong now....But I'm jus a regular dude, right?
landsharkme 2 years ago
peace and equilibrium sadly makes for a really slow plot. lots of gardening, lots of puttering..lots of walking... :D
I think the future is all of those mixed up... we are all enacting the future we see in our minds eye... 7 billion of us...
CityzenJane 2 years ago
I envision a future where children are not abused, manipulated and treated like second class citizens.
OpineTime 2 years ago
this is so crucial.
the fourth future..
xxtimequake 2 years ago
We have to work things out here, because wherever we go, our dysfunction goes with us. Once the inner disorder or dysfunction is eradicated, technology will have it's rightful place, but as always, we put the cart before the horse.
wonderwhaz797 2 years ago 3
wow, awesome video. the way you simplified this obvious, yet unarticulated issue reminds me of daniel quinn. thank you, im gona spread this concept like wildfire
Thinkforyourself11 2 years ago
Yeah, i mean returning to nature with god would be cool. But i'd rather expand into space "in a good type of civlization" to. The idea of space is pretty cool. I myself believe civilization can be good, its just not going to happe on this earth due to about 100,000,000 variables. I think a combination of the 4th future + space would be the idea scenerio for myself.
partylwc 2 years ago
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xxtimequake 2 years ago
What is "a good type of civilization" ?
xxtimequake 2 years ago
so civilization doesn't work on earth
but it will on another planet?
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
I have a friend who roleplays his rl character when he plays video games. Hes big into saving everyone. So in fallout 3 the video game; a game about nuclear war and your left against bad guys; he has to try to save everyone. He thinks hes the "good guy" by doing this. But i think hes the bad guy for saving people in a shitty world. IMo its the same thing with space. Sure if we can get to another earth like world we save civ. But do we want to keep growing the disease?
partylwc 2 years ago
Remember that Star Trek episode that was about people who were against civilization? "stepping into Eden, yeah, brother..." In that episode, the anti-civ types were portrayed as rude and nuts. They there were the people blissed out on the plant spores..that worked until Kirk pooped on their party.
But I can't really think of a ecotopian "future" *movie*. The Findhorn community people are sort of ecotopian..they specifically work with nature spirits.
givebirthathome 2 years ago
An interesting idea, but also a really great name for a rock band: The Fourth Future.
(Or maybe 4th Futu
MsAIRBORNTOXICEVENT 2 years ago
the fourth future is the healthiest concept but... i guess healthy and respectful is difficult to truely understand in todays day and age. because from birth we've been raised to think the antithesis of balance is justified and unconcesequential.
aliasdee 2 years ago
Yup, there is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
Hockeyjason 2 years ago
earth is in space, so... whats the need to visit another planet where they're maybe appriciating what thier planet has to offer. unless man, wants to take over what they got and enslave ppl native to thier planet.
unless we waited till we were envited to thier planet which we probably wouldnt. lol
or if there was another planet with no life, that had elements that would sustain what our bodies were made of... would we make civilization there?
aliasdee 2 years ago
Resources become depleted when the rate at which they are consumed exceeds the rate at which they are replenished. In the case of many crucial resources such as fossil fuels, uranium, and metals, the rate of replenishment is negligible compared to the rate of consumption, so as far as we are concerned the amount of usable resources is shrinking permanently every day.
theGreenAnarchist 2 years ago
demolition man was quite a nice future indeed!
hollowbones13 2 years ago
if we went to space would be visit other planets with life forms that are satisfied with thier planet? would be want to be in a space ship our entire life? or... start a civilization on another planet? whats wrong with just accepting the 4th future and loving what we're actually made of??? space is just the matter that carries other planets... planets just like this one.... give or take an element
aliasdee 2 years ago
I think about the fourth future all the time everything I do I assume that in the future all this energy wont be available, and I think about how I will get things done without it and what life will look like. but yes there is strong resistance.
FocusedLove 2 years ago
what things do you need to get done?
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
I see us going into dystopia.
meeputube 2 years ago
I thought we were already there...
EsotericPsychedelic 2 years ago
The fourth future involves putting all your eggs in one basket, so I don't think it's much of a future.
KevinSolway 2 years ago
huh? how do you figure?
zzz33333 2 years ago
I mean if we don't get off this earth and colonize other places, then all our eggs will be in this one basket (the earth). And if it gets hit by a comet or somesuch, then we'll all die in one hit.
KevinSolway 2 years ago
don't you see how silly and backwards that logic is....?
"we'll all die in one hit?" that's your fear? well, i got news for ya. we'll all die in one hit a hell of a lot sooner than we would if a comet hit us if we don't stop this culture.
we're trying to save the world, but we're actually just murdering the entirety of it.
if we bring down civilization we can work on having a few good years left before we all die from a comet. i'd rather go out like that than from nuclear war or eco-collapse.
zzz33333 2 years ago
I hear ya, but all the same, I'd rather take my chances off-world! :-)
KevinSolway 2 years ago
you're risking death in 2 to 200 years to escape death in 2 billion years.
zzz33333 2 years ago
The way I see it, the vast bulk of human beings probably aren't intelligent enough to turn things around before they poison themselves to death. I wish they were, but I just can't see it, realistically. Perhaps after 95% of the human race has died out we'll have a better chance of rebuilding. Or perhaps not. But I don't think we should give up trying to change things here on earth. We need to *both* change things here on earth, as well as stop putting all our eggs in one basket.
KevinSolway 2 years ago
kevin your thesis is that people are stupid
but people think they are smarter than the animals
and somehow the animals, stupid as they are, have no problem living in balance with the land they are on
so...?
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
@pennilesscripple
99.99% of animal species become extinct, precisely because they are unable to live in balance with their environment.
KevinSolway 2 years ago
and the other .01% become extinct because....?
and your made-up statistic means?
what is your point?
what is your stand?
earlier it seemed your stand was 'people are stupid.' now it looks like your stand is 'people are stupid, and so are animals.' or maybe it's 'every dead thing died because it was stupid.'
also, industrial civilization will only let you put your eggs in its basket alone--it allows no other possibilities
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
@pennilesscripple
The other .01% aren't extinct yet. :-)
My point is that we are messing things up because we are too much like all other animals. We aren't civilized *enough*. Returning to a tribal existence won't solve anything. We need to become smart. The "one basket" I was refering to was this earth. We need to spread our seed much more widely.
KevinSolway 2 years ago
which will be easier, make humans better or get systems that work for humans the way they are?
there are systems that work for humans the way they are made. why are those systems unacceptable?
won't it be harder to constantly have to change humans as they come out of the womb, than to have systems that work for humans the way they are?
zzz33333 2 years ago
What if the way humans are isn't that great? Easier doesn't mean better.
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
Maybe both?
Seedr0 2 years ago
I choose door number 4.
jailarson 2 years ago
thank you
13thDimension 2 years ago
4th future sounds really lame.
stephenarnquist 2 years ago
From the midst of the future you call to your present self, whining of the lack of wonders.
Hockeyjason 2 years ago
stephenarnquist - what sounds lame about it?
zzz33333 2 years ago
Thanks again man.
With this video, you've help me reaffirm a big part of my quest.
I've been trying to build stories that explore exactly what you're talking about here.
Babylon Falls.
-A:H
Themhambone 2 years ago
This sounds so familiar. I'm involved with an anarchist activist group in my town and tend to see this on and off, though as the destructive nature of civilization becomes more and more obvious people's minds do change. Just the other day someone asked about borrowing Endgame, so that's a start.
EsotericPsychedelic 2 years ago
the problem comes down to afrodisicas and the refinement of gas products and buy products also there adminstration
HARTLIKEWHEEL 2 years ago
Jehovah's Witnesses teach that there is no Heaven and no Hell but there will be a Paradise on Earth. The Fourth Future as you refer to it here reminded me of that. If you do a little research into the JW's you will realize however that they are a mind control type of cult that some refer to as The Armageddon Cult. I grew up all around them and it takes years and years to de-program but I did want to mention they do entertain similiar ideas as the Fourth Future.
cosmicaxis 2 years ago
Great video, Zack. Did you tell these environmentalists about the fourth future? What did they think, did they think it sounded like a better and more viable possibility than the whole "advanced" and "space" future?
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
they thought it was impossible
zzz33333 2 years ago
As in, we could never get to that point? But did they think it was desirable, if it were possible? Or did they think that it was maybe ignoring many of the possibilities that comes with civilized life? Just wondering.
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
^^ Never got an answer to this, I'm curious to know if they identified more with your or my position...
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
i'd rather have realities than possibilities
possibilities don't meet my or anyone else's needs
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
pc, aren't we both hoping for certain "possibilities" here? And besides, these environmentalists seemed to think what you're pulling for isn't a even a possibility at this point, much less a reality. There's a reason (many in fact) why people consider it so "fringe".
Here's a thought; wouldn't overpopulation get even worse? I picture people having more sex and guess what, no condoms (er, natural ones, maybe? nah) or other birth control, or abortion, do you expect people to just "know better"?
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
population isn't the problem. the poor people aren't destroying the planet, and that common assumption is really abhorrent and elitist.
in fact, the garbage pickers, the poorest of all, actually have a negative carbon footprint. compare their carbon footprint to donald trump's.
human beings should be free to have babies just like all creatures should be free to have babies. see 'corrida da comida' on youtube
yes without civilization, more sex, less war
hmm....
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
When did I say the poor are destroying the planet? The overall population is what's doing it (but yeah, the poor usually have the most babies). I don't doubt that the fatcats destroy more than your average garbage picker, but we're simply talking about population overall.
Yeah, we're free to have babies... but it's not usually good to have tons... and pregnant girls couldn't get abortions... I guess you're anti-abortion by necessity.
More sex isn't the problem, more people is.
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
what i'm saying is the 'people are having too many babies' argument is usually made regarding the poor, and i see it is more of an elitist position than anything else
the overall average is meaningless; if all of the population lived like americans, we'd need four extra planets. if they all lived like amazon natives, we'd need one planet, and the planet would be a whole lot healthier
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
we "can" be free i mean..... and these comment are backwards the first is at the bottom..
majabsalu 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
We dont need technology to survive. A windmill wont feed starving ethiopian children. A solar panel wont help a impoverished New Delhi culture. The NWO IS part of "New Age", a useless black hole of esoteric knowledge that consist of UFOs, Terence Mckenna and how HAARP is microwaving our brains. Im more worried about the microwave in my house to be honest yall. Im sure the honey bees appreciated it when I threw the thing out the window!!!!! Just say no to giving your food kimo before you eat it
Like2MilkGoats 2 years ago
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Like2MilkGoats 2 years ago
i was thinkin bout this the other day bra... even if ..... it would never be the same because the earth is so polluted okay if all the buildings and citys where abandoned even destroyed and broke down where would all the rubble where the remnant be...... its not like its biodegradable there no where to dispose of this mass trash that covers the earth and this would need to b for the eath to be healthy and give forth fruit and for the animals to be healthy and us we can be [read below this]
majabsalu 2 years ago
we an be free.. but the earth will never be like it supposed to be fully the eart is to raped and mutilated mainlly covered by concrete and trash... see what im saying.... our freedom will "be".... but not how it should be "naturally natural" not all the way feel me.....
majabsalu 2 years ago
the quicker we stop the advance of civilization, the more natural landscapes will be salvaged. There are vast areas still relatively pristine, but civilization is destroying them by the second. the amazon rainforest will be gone in probably 20 years if deforestation continues at current rates.
Thinkforyourself11 2 years ago
'relatively' pristine
there is dioxin in the breast milk of indigenous women in the far north
there isn't a place on earth that isn't affected by industrial pollution
those areas that you think are preserved, like national forests? they are logged by multinational corporations and have more roads than the u.s. interstate highway system
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
what if we sent the garbage to space?? jokes aside, theirs a mushroom that grows through concrete and fungus/bacteria that eat and neutralize petrol chemicals. natural fungus. Plants that absorb mercury and radioactive compounds. sad is that industry is pushing gmo stuff like gmo poplar trees that work faster and can be cut and moved somewhere else to deal with it..
Beardedyoungman 2 years ago
so it would take time and working together but we could restore things. we already have biodegradable plastics that work for all our needs until we lose the addiction to these things. That could change right now. just need to believe;)
Beardedyoungman 2 years ago
working together is the key, bym
this culture is based on fragmentation and isolation for a reason--it keeps people from taking care of each other, and keeps them dependent on the system for support
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
Yeh I hear you .. you and i both know how crucially long that would take tho many generations ..MANY.... but yeh basically if anything will be redeemed to us people 2gether or individually we will remain in this wasteland feel me... but that doesnt at all discourage me.. i jus had to mention this aspect of the situation feel me....
majabsalu 2 years ago
it's actually pretty inspiring how fast some pollution can be absorbed by these plants but most have to be moved to different places after to take out the pollution. the oil eating fungus works REally fast. Water would take most time.. Way I see it that would make lots of "Jobs" in the mean time if we could work together and make the choice. ya it would be a really tough choice to make for most and it's very important to feel that;) The fear involved would make most believe gmo is only way..
Beardedyoungman 2 years ago
not *never*, my friend
the earth can and does recover and heal
you'd be surprised
all she needs is a fighting chance
and yes i feel you
if you are talking about 'us' as in you and me, yes we most likely won't see an earth that is healthy. and of course we don't have one now.
but if we end civilization, 'us' meaning 'humans' will at some point have a healthy planet
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
Dont Miss my point Sis Im speaking of OUR Lifetime and even many lifetimes over... what im saying is yes we looking to change for the futere generations of course... but we cant be 1 sided EVERY generation of positive thinkers before us [excluding a few people] heve thought thought "ONLY "in the terms of long term and succeeded in not much at all but but a talking head "as they say"... we are LiVing NOW and right NOW is always the time for action otherwise the future wilol "STAY" The Future
majabsalu 2 years ago
Too look at it one way is only perpetuating history... we gotta think long Term and ALO Right NOW... while we still got breath to live and BE different.. and just "BE" so no dont get me wrong my statement wasnt a hopeless statement nor a statement of ignorance jus stating what ive heard no one mention in this convo which should bring about conversation which is good..... WE are NOW.... lets also look at that cleary.... we LIVE once our purpose isnt always plant to to let the next generation reap
majabsalu 2 years ago
the Truth has been given to us to act on.. a free man is free before he bust out the prison with a tank even while he still in there he knew in his mind he had no obligation to be a slave to another man.. That mans children will be Free because not only did he mentally but he Physically freed himself so his children wont be "BORN" in slavery this is how you REALLY think for the oncoming generation.. by stop bowing yourself... understand Bless.......
majabsalu 2 years ago
yes, majabsalu, there will be a lot of work cleaning up the mess
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
Excellent video! The fourth future sounds like a great place. Hope we find ourselves there one day.
TheDailyRon 2 years ago
the fourth future isn't possible man kind has become so reliant on technology that to take it away would equal chaos
jemar200 2 years ago
Every new piece of technology causes chaos to existing ways of being.
As technology advances, it reverses the characteristics of every situation again and again. The age of automation is going to be the age of 'do it yourself.' - Marshall Mcluhan
We become what we behold. We shape our tools (technology) and then our tools shape us.
- Marshall Mcluhan
Hockeyjason 2 years ago
well...fortunately the green minded actually DO want the IV/ecotopia...and i am sure we are mostly doubtful of a technocratic path..bear in mind our sheer numbers and the need for some community would require some sort of civilization model...interaction dynamis..just functional rather than what we have now...
permacultureli 2 years ago
I'm not sure whether I'm against technology or not. I'm against alienating technology like the internet for the most part, but I'm not sure if I'm necessarily against the space thing. I can't accurately say how space travel could exist outside of civilization, because I don't know if it can (but I really doubt it).
I hope you can see what I'm saying. I'm not sure if i can...
DeflocculatedDentist 2 years ago
maybe you should ask yourself why you value space exploration. what would we be missing out on if we stopped going to space? is it something that is worth the cost of all the violence and waste that goes into advanced technology?
theGreenAnarchist 2 years ago
I'm not sure whether technology inherently leads to violence, though, because it's development has been for the uses of power, within an already-violent system. Technology has been used as a tool to enhance violence, but I'm not sure whether technology itself causes violence.
I don't think space exploration has any sort of utilitarian use. I think maintaining knowledge is very important, though. So if it CAN be done without destroying the land base, without violence, and without hierarchy
DeflocculatedDentist 2 years ago
I think it's very worth it.
DeflocculatedDentist 2 years ago
regardless of whether you think technology is value-free (I don't think it is at all), you should consider that advanced technologies such as computers, spacecraft, and skyscrapers always depend on destroying the environment and exploiting people to obtain the resources and labor power required to sustain them. hence, they are inherently unsustainable.
theGreenAnarchist 2 years ago
I think we shouldn't rule out the fact that we may be able to find a way to make spacecrafts without exploiting labor (which is obviously very possible) and destroying the environment (which may be possible).
DeflocculatedDentist 2 years ago