Arthur's and Catherine's romance seems so sweet and it would have been a beautiful period of time. There might not have been so much killing and conflict over religion, the wonderful queen would have ruled over England for a few more glorious years and sigh... how i wished the story was true... <3 what a fairytale!
I never understood how Henry had any case...the sin would be to marry your brother's wife while he lives but if he dies the brother is supposed to marry his widow to give her children so the brothers name will not die out, according to old testament law
I never understood how Henry had any case...the sin would be to marry your brother's wife while he lives but if he dies the brother is supposed to marry his widow to give her children so the brothers name will not die out, according to old testament law
In the event that was not true and if the marriage is consummated, what is the problem? Henry married Anne, and had had sex with Anne's sister, Mary. Sincerely and having read many biographies, Arthur was unable to consummate the marriage. Not even able to go dancing with her. In his own wedding was seated at the table of children .He was very weak, her father lamented that he was the firstborn, and not Henry who was strong and healthy, with 10 years and was even higher than Arthur himself.
@HelenLupin the problem was centred around the catholic church and its laws and power. arthur's marriage to catherine, and henry's affair with mary boleyn, would have no biological effect on either catherine or anne boleyn having a son. the problem was that canon law (in some places) forbid two people from marrying if one of them had had a relationship with someone closely related to the other. henry manipulated those laws to get what he wanted at the moment -once catherine, and then anne
@redhead1892 The first time Catherine publicly claimed that her marriage to Arthur had not been consummated was when Henry sought the annulment; the subject had not been mentioned earlier, and it is possible that Catherine lied to protect her reputation, and the rights of her daughter, Mary. To say otherwise would have been an admission of fornication as well as a condemnation of Princess Mary to illegitimacy Catherine claimed that she and Arthur had shared a bed for only seven days.
I loved "The Constant Princess" by Philippa Gregory but I, like so many others, have no clue if she did or did not consumate her marriage with Arthur. I'm more curious about Prince Arthur's character. Was he less of a jerk than his younger brother? Poor Katherine - even as a princess, back then life was tough.
I don't think Catherine's confessor claimed the marriage to be comsumated because a confessor, even back then was sworn to secretcy and would have proudly died instead of revealing a confesion, it is possible that Catherine gave her permission for him to break the seal of silence. And even her principal Lady-in-Waiting said no such thing had ever happened, and she WOULD know. I don't think the marriage was consumated on the grounds that they were not married long and both young.
I'm in love with the Tudor period and everyone in it. I especially like this video because I've been reading Philippa Gregory's novels for some time now and my favorite is The Constant Princess.
We may never know what happened, but if it was a lie, it was really a noble one.
why do dramatized versions of katherine always portray her with dark, moorish features when she was fair skinned and strawberry blond in every one of the painting of her?
@kendahke Agreed. Being a descendant of both John of Gaunt (son of Edward III) and Henry II of Castile -- she was fair with auburn hair. She had quite a deal of English blood in her ancestry. They did that with her sister, Juana as well in "Juana La Loca" (2001).
@ZeroMyHero99 Truly ironic. They were both descendants of John of Gaunt, third son of Edward III. Henry and Arthur were descendants of his children by his relationship with his mistress Katherine Swynford, whom he married finally near the end of his life. By edict, they and their descendants were not to be eligible to inherit the throne. Henry VII took it in battle and held on for dear life. Catherine was a descendant of John's daughter by his second marriage to Constance of Castile.
I dont know why filmakers put Catherine with black or dark brown hair and eyes..... She was really blond hair and blue eyes, as all de decentens of Calalina de Láncaster...
USA and England think that there are no blonds among latin or hispanic people???? --- >They are stupids! Meet Latinoamérica well!
@PSYQUE23 Umm I live in the US among a huge hispanic population. Some have predominately European (Spanish) DNA, and others Asian. NONE of them have blonde hair or blue eyes. Catherine obviously had mixed ancestry. The hispanics that I know do not have mixed ancestry. It seems that you really need a history lesson in genetics and DNA.
6:51 - "the bee-trooth-ul was formalized..." Lol. I know you English people have dibbs on the pronunciation of English words, but I think we can all agree that doesn't sound right.
@kendahke As I myself stated. Though even in proper English dialect the word was indeed mispronounced, which I lightheartedly remarked upon for a giggle. But as you're obviously a dense, rude, humorless twat I guess you didn't pick up on that. Have a nice day, dipshit!
@Hattaru Because he died before his father did (he was just a teenager when he died...really sad). When Arthur died, his younger brother Henry became the heir to the throne.
@Nicollie1062 whoa haha i thought i was watching this for the first time.. and then going through the comments I come across a comment I wrote 8 months ago.. I don't even remember writing that...what a trip!
@Hattaru Prince Arthur died while his father, Henry VII, was still alive and king. He was next in line to the throne but died before he succeeded. That left his younger brother Henry next in line, who did eventually succeed their father and became Henry VIII.
i don't think katherine slept with arthur. She was very religious, and on her deathbed she swore to god that she had been a virgin when she married henry.
The comentaries in spanish are very gorgeus hahahaha Katherine says "how many time Arthur will be here?" and her maiden answer "Two weeks", and she reply: "Two weeks... in the bed?" HAHAHAHAHAHA
He said 1503, just imagine, a hundred years later England would be so different, and Queen Elizabeth would just have died. I can't imagine the tudors story lasted for about a hundred years.
I personally think that the marriage was consummated, but on the other hand, it's not impossible that it wasn't. Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette's marriage wasn't consummated for 7 years after all.
@CatAtomic99 Latin was the language of not only the Church, but of royalty. Catherine's parents made sure that she and her older siblings received a well rounded education, something she passed down to Mary. Also, betrothals (especially royal ones) weren't set in stone. They could be broken between betrothal and marriage for various reasons. She probably didn't learn English for this reason, just in case either party broke the betrothal contract.
@CatAtomic99 Read your history. Latin, even when I went to school was still being learned. Some Churches were still performing services in latin, and this was back in the 60's.
I read an amazing book called "Patience, Princess Catherine" and it was the story of the young Catherine of Aragon's marrige to Arthur and Henry written by Carolyn Meyer!
I believe that they went to bed together, and that it's possible that he got on top of her and wasn't impotent at all-- but nevertheless still did not manage to make it past her maidenhead without prematurely ejaculating outside her, possibly just on her pudenda or between her thighs or on her tummy. He might have convinced himself that he'd done the deed, and she might not have known any better until comparing notes with a woman who'd been married. No other explanation makes as much sense.
She walks in a strange way..: Anyway I'm reading The constant princess of Philippa Gregory, and I just love the story, that Arthur and Cataina had, and it's so sad he had to dye so young, just think if he didn't dye, england would have had such a different history!!! ...
So what? isn't it true that Arthur died at 17? couldn't it be true that they where in love? what do you know? isn't it true that england would have had a very very different history if Katherine and Arthur became Queen and King, had a son and heir?? ...
It is a documentary, although I do not know the original name. I believe the uploader of these movies has cut them in peaces that belong to each other.
Starkey made another mistake besides that she was sixteen and Arthur was actually fifteen. Both Arthur and Katherine were fluent in French as well as Latin -- the Latin was mentioned but the French wasn't.
Alison Weir's wonderful "The Six Wives of Henry VIII" brings up that both Queen Elizabeth of York and her mother-in-law Margaret Beaufort personally wrote to Queen Isabella of Castile and suggested that the young Katherine should learn French, as it was spoken at the English court.
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I can't believe the whole "Katherine was a virgin when she married Henry" is still being recited and believed by so many. Give me a BREAK. Two teenagers, married and in a castle alone together----hmmm, I wonder? And if the marriage wasn't consumated then why did they insist on waiting several months after Arthur had died, to make sure Katherine wasn't pregnant? And as far as it being impossible that she lied, she was HUMAN. She wasn't a SAINT. She lied to ensure Mary's legitimacy. Period.
@insaneforjulian if she was a virgin or not does not matter. at that time could kill a woman for being unfaithful (fijate what happened to Anne and she was innocent) ..
I agree with you, insaneforjulian. Forget Phillipa Gregory's books, the historical circumstances simply don't support the fact that Katherine and Arthur didn't sleep together. There's no reason to believe they didn't. None. Arther died young, but *many* died young. There's no evidence that he was too sick to have intercourse.
not to mention it wasn't like they kissed at the wedding, got sick, and he died. There was a time in the middle where they were living together. This would've been like a honeymoon. I know people that never stopped having sex on their honeymoon.
yeah but it was the responsibility of the heir to the throne to produce an heir ASAP and Katherine already felt that it was her destiny to give birth. I'm not saying definitively. I just think they did it...it's my opinion.
Yes, but it was duty of the heir to produce an heir ASAP. Katherine felt that it was her destiny to give birth to the future King of England. It's just my opinion. I think they did it. I'm not going to argue with anyone and defend my position. It just seems they wanted an heir, so they did it. My opinion doesn't matter anyway.
This was a very interesting clip. It added some details that helped me understand the book "The Constant Princess" a little better. I find this period in history very fascinating!
Yes, "The Constant Princess" was indeed a wonderful book. Very enlightening on the person that Katherine of Aragon was as a private person. I don't believe there has ever been a more faithful, and loving Queen before, or since Katherine. She was the epitome of what a "true lady" was. People from this era could learn so much from the way Katherine conducted her life. So noble, loving, and true to the very end.
Katherine's oldest sister, Isabel married the king of Portugal (Manuel) and died in childbirth. So Maria another older sister married him afterwards as a replacement. Manuel was 13 years older than Maria.
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If Katherine ended up marrying Henry 7th he would have been 28 years older. It would not have been unthinkable in those times.
All that we know of Caterina or Katharine points to her innate goodness and piety. When, years later, she was commanded before Henry VIII and a court set on annuling her marriage, she proclaimed before everyone, "...well you know, my Lord, that to thy bed a maid I came..." To my mind it is inconceivable that she would have lied about this, or misrepresented the facts. The King, it is said, could not look her in the face, 'but turned away'.
The dispensation actually allowed either Henry the 7th or Henry the 8th to marry Catherine. The mother died on 11-Feb-1503, only 10 months after her son. Henry was not even made Prince of Wales until 18-Feb-1504 (98 weeks after his brother died). Since she may have found herself married to her former father-in-law, it is likely that she was very confused. The sex with the young Arthur may have been clumsily performed, leading her to believe that she was a virgin.
while Catherine was still young, her Spanish family began their famous inbreeding program where every single marriage was between cousins or uncles and nieces. Charles II, was born 125 years after Catherine's death (6 generations descended from her sister) . He was a monstrous drooling impotent idiot who didn't learn to walk until the age of 8. He was the inevitable result of generations of inbreeding.
---
There are worse things then having to marry your father in law.
Actually TB, consumption was used to describe many ailments. I do geneology and some of my relatives death certificates have consumption as their death, but in actual fact it was more likely to be pneuomonia, flu etc. People died from the flu quite often, they still do in many countries.
wasn't an ancient tale that the man who married his dead brother's wife will produce no male heir or something like that, I heard it I don't no where but I don't know if it's true
It was from the Bible, Leviticus 20:21, "And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's nakedness; they shall be childless."
if it was a lie, it makes u wonder for wat reason it was told. She could have gone back to Spain and easily been married off again to somewhere else, and i dont think that Katherine would have done it because she was in love her 11 yr old brother in law. i guess we'll never kno
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but would she get the chance to be a Queen again? I think it was her ambition and pride as a Spanish infanta. Most of her sisters were Queens or Archduchesses [which was equivalent to a queen in the low lands]. If she was married off again, I doubt she'd get another crown. Her value had diminished with the first marriage. She'd be a countess or duchess or princess consort.
Yes & she had been raised since a young child to believe her destiny was to be Queen of england. Her mother's death had changed the poltical situation & made her less valuable as a bride. If the marriage had been consumated that value would be even further decreased as she hadn't succeded in getting pregnant.
Katherine wasn't in love with Henry when he was 11. She was thinking of her situation. Marriage was the goal. It was the way a young princess secured her future and had a purpose. Hopefully, love would come later. She fell in love with Henry much later, albeit before the marriage. There was seven years between Arthur's death and her marriage to Henry.
@soccergirl97979 Could have been under pressure from Henry VII, who didn't want to lose the dowry. Would be easier to get papal dispensation for marriage to either Henry VII or VIII if she had not slept with Arthur. Wouldn't be impossible if she had slept with him, but easier if she hadn't.
Its a shame on British Govt to shelters and finance the immigrant women from the third world, on the pretence of marriage to British man and then having the intention of betraying the man so that they can settle on her own in England and live on the taxpayers expense.
There are 28 thousand women enter in England by deceiving marriage and settle in this country were by man are struggling at the border. Man can go to hell. This government is of blind basterd. I am not against women but this is not fare
I've been reading up about the evidence that COA consummated her marriage to Arthur. As far as I can tell, the allegations that she did indeed consummate the marriage appear to have materialize many years after the fact. Henry VIII furiously demanded evidence that arthur and COG were intimate, so there would be clear incentive to make up a story stating that they did. Apparently Henry VIII even admitted she was virgin when he married her early on.
I've always admired this brave woman who was every inch her mother's daughter! Henry would later say that if he was still free to choose a bride he would choose her....
How many mistakes has Starkey made in the documentary? Arthur can't have died of Tubercilosis as Catherine had the same disease and there would have been serious after effects if she had had tubercilosis
true, katherine was most likely not infertile. Her lack of children, was likely the fault of her husband, Henry, whom it suggested had herpes. Noticed all Henry's children, from Catheirne and his other wives, died or the ones who survived were weak or sickly. for example, Edward VI lived only 'til fifteen, Elizabeth I was prone to sickness, it's said that for week's at a time she was unable to
and also Mary was very frail and died of a tumor. and those were only from his wives. how healthy was the bastard Henry Fitzroy whom he had gotten off of Bessie Blount?
Some historians speculate that Henry's infidelities were the source of syphilis for him, which some think was the reason for the difficulties his wives had in carrying infants to term or delivering them live.
@ForEverSnoopy all women at that time wore their hair down to the curve of their back or down to their knees that was how ppl believed women should look in those days so i dont know why you make it sound like she was the only one
you Paintings Don't do justice, there was a basic image for both that of men and women that was always the template for Kings and queens, to give them a strong royal look, it's hard to say what people really looked like tbh. But if you were talking about the Actors I know right! Couldn't they have found someone a little better looking. Kbye.
I know, the actress who played Catherine Howard looke dmore like her. They gave the actress who played Catherine Parr a redheaded wig, could they not have done the smae for this lady at least?
The sweating sickness. It was a flu like virus that had outbreaks in and around England for a few centuries, then disappeared. It caused excessive sweating, flu like symptoms. and killed many people. Some lucky people recovered (Anne Boleyn was sickened with it); some didn't.
thanks...i've been reading a lot about tudor history...it's very interesting because every little detail in history affects another...and how it can be related ..
I agree about the details. Henry and Arthur's grandmother, Margaret, treated them very differently. Arthur the heir had a well disciplined upbringing while Margaret indulged and spoiled young Henry. What if Henry hadn't been so spoiled? Would he have been less selfish and reckless in his pursuit of a divorce from Catherine to the point of breaking from Rome? What if Arthur had lived long enough to give Catherine a son? What kind of ruler would he have been?
I don't think so. What really drove Henry to divorce Catalina was the fact that in 20 years of being married, she didn't give him the prince he "needed". Didn't really have anything with being spoiled (thought that is debatable), it was to do with him being sexist.But he was raise that way, so your right. If he wasn't raised with the whole "a woman can't rule a country" bull, it might have turned out differently.
By his "spoiled" behavior I mean how cruel Henry was, in particular that he wouldn't allow Mary to see her mother if Mary didn't acknowledge Anne as queen. That's excessive and unnecessarily cruel. He had his new queen. Why did Mary have to bend to his will in writing and declare herself a bastard? That's what a spoiled child would do. Agree with me or else! Mary never saw Catherine again. It's hard not to wonder how Catherine's life would have been better if Arthur had died.
Well....thats Henry for you. He was a tyrant in all means of the word. He was cruel and always insisted on his way. Poor Catalina and Mary. In that means, he was very spoiled indeed.
she wasnt 35 when she died she ws 50 years old anne the 2nd wife was about 35 when she was killed but katherine lived until she was 50 i found out on the Wikipedia
In a way the whole divorce was pointless as Mary ebcame Queen anyway, and if she hadnt suffered so much in her childhood Im sure she would have followed int he footsteps of her Gradmother, Isabl, and her mother, Catherine and been a great queen.
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Yea and mad to boot. The Spanish royal house was known for carrying traits of insanity, perfect examples were Juana [Catalina's sister] Isabela [allegedly] and her mother [Catalina's grandmother]. It is supposed that this trait eventually was introduced to all the European royal houses.
Your English is good, aleluzmi. That is an excellent question. I think Catherine certainly would have had more happiness in her life. She might have been able to have a son with Arthur. England wouldn't have broken from Rome, but I think England eventually would have become a protestant country anyway--with less pain and violence. Protestant literature was growing more and more common. The reformation wouldn't have happened as soon as it did, but it would have happened.
i don't know. It was a mutual process. The English reformation definitely increased the pace of European protestant revolution. For example, with the Hugenots, English support from Elizabeth I helped their cause. Hell what do I know? Anne Boleyn might have seduced Arthur too and then we would just end up with the same situation.
No, they didn't. The servants would have to bring the bathroom, cart in water to fill it, after presumably heating it. Taking a bath was an undertaking. Bathing once a week would be about normal. You'd sponge bathe at other times.
Yeh, then forced to marry Henry who then divorced her, changed the face of religion in england and took away her daughter until she lied and said her marrage to athur and that Mary was a bastard.
A verse in Leviticus says that a man who marries a dead brother's wife will remain childless (Mary didn't count; she was a girl). However, other biblical verses contradict this and tell a man to marry her. As with divorce (which can be gotten around by the church granting an annulmentj) this could be gotten around with a "dispensation" issued by the Pope. It was an excuse used by Henry when he didn't get a son. The church was "wrong." Catherine's "sin" was sleeping with Arthur, her husband.
This is what strikes me, they say Arthur died of the sweating sickness and he died six months after their wedding but isn't it said that usually after catching the sweat that they would die about two days later? I really don't believe in that Theory but Katherine did secure the alliance with Spain and England so I guess it was for the best.
Arthur could have contracted the sweating sickness (or tuberculosis) after they traveled to Ludlow. TB is communicable from person to person. People traveled back and forth. Some believe the sweating sickness was transmitted by rodents or fleas; there were always mice in those castles. Arthur became ill in late March and died April 2. Katherine's life probably would have been happier in the long run had he lived, but we'll never know.
I thought the white wedding dress was a tradition started by Queen Victoria.
lovelystrings 2 months ago
Reading the "Constant Princess"
Arthur's and Catherine's romance seems so sweet and it would have been a beautiful period of time. There might not have been so much killing and conflict over religion, the wonderful queen would have ruled over England for a few more glorious years and sigh... how i wished the story was true... <3 what a fairytale!
1fcourage 3 months ago
@1fcourage Arthur and Catherine was Catholics. The conflic about religion comes with Henry VIII
FelipeNeriMKT 3 months ago
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I never understood how Henry had any case...the sin would be to marry your brother's wife while he lives but if he dies the brother is supposed to marry his widow to give her children so the brothers name will not die out, according to old testament law
Serendipity989 4 months ago
I never understood how Henry had any case...the sin would be to marry your brother's wife while he lives but if he dies the brother is supposed to marry his widow to give her children so the brothers name will not die out, according to old testament law
Serendipity989 4 months ago
In the event that was not true and if the marriage is consummated, what is the problem? Henry married Anne, and had had sex with Anne's sister, Mary. Sincerely and having read many biographies, Arthur was unable to consummate the marriage. Not even able to go dancing with her. In his own wedding was seated at the table of children .He was very weak, her father lamented that he was the firstborn, and not Henry who was strong and healthy, with 10 years and was even higher than Arthur himself.
HelenLupin 5 months ago in playlist The Six Wives of Henry VIII
@HelenLupin the problem was centred around the catholic church and its laws and power. arthur's marriage to catherine, and henry's affair with mary boleyn, would have no biological effect on either catherine or anne boleyn having a son. the problem was that canon law (in some places) forbid two people from marrying if one of them had had a relationship with someone closely related to the other. henry manipulated those laws to get what he wanted at the moment -once catherine, and then anne
redhead1892 4 months ago
@redhead1892 The first time Catherine publicly claimed that her marriage to Arthur had not been consummated was when Henry sought the annulment; the subject had not been mentioned earlier, and it is possible that Catherine lied to protect her reputation, and the rights of her daughter, Mary. To say otherwise would have been an admission of fornication as well as a condemnation of Princess Mary to illegitimacy Catherine claimed that she and Arthur had shared a bed for only seven days.
MissUniverse2010 4 months ago
lols at Katherine. Two weeks in bed? No in the same house.
KATROSE92 5 months ago 2
I loved "The Constant Princess" by Philippa Gregory but I, like so many others, have no clue if she did or did not consumate her marriage with Arthur. I'm more curious about Prince Arthur's character. Was he less of a jerk than his younger brother? Poor Katherine - even as a princess, back then life was tough.
monuorah 7 months ago 3
I don't think Catherine's confessor claimed the marriage to be comsumated because a confessor, even back then was sworn to secretcy and would have proudly died instead of revealing a confesion, it is possible that Catherine gave her permission for him to break the seal of silence. And even her principal Lady-in-Waiting said no such thing had ever happened, and she WOULD know. I don't think the marriage was consumated on the grounds that they were not married long and both young.
rulers101 8 months ago 2
@dianaartemis19 YES!! I am in love with the novel too!! :)
Now, the perfect guy in the world seem to be Prince Arthur!!!! <3 ^^ <3
1fcourage 9 months ago
I'm in love with the Tudor period and everyone in it. I especially like this video because I've been reading Philippa Gregory's novels for some time now and my favorite is The Constant Princess.
We may never know what happened, but if it was a lie, it was really a noble one.
dianaartemis19 10 months ago
strange
MyLalinea 10 months ago
6 people should be beheaded!!
MightyPopzilla 10 months ago
why do dramatized versions of katherine always portray her with dark, moorish features when she was fair skinned and strawberry blond in every one of the painting of her?
kendahke 10 months ago 12
@kendahke I see no moorish features here.
harry911tk 9 months ago
@harry911tk @:36 into this piece. Dark auburn hair and brown eyes with a swarthy complexion is not strawberry blonde and blue eyes.
kendahke 1 month ago
@kendahke Agreed. Being a descendant of both John of Gaunt (son of Edward III) and Henry II of Castile -- she was fair with auburn hair. She had quite a deal of English blood in her ancestry. They did that with her sister, Juana as well in "Juana La Loca" (2001).
lovelystrings 2 months ago
@kendahke Because ignorant people assume all hispanics are dark haired/dark skinned
Nadesiko85 1 month ago
wasn't catherine first married with henry's brother?
MyLalinea 11 months ago
@MyLalinea Umm, yes. This is what this video is about.
Saffron49 10 months ago
Am i the only one who finds it funny that Katherine had a better claim to the English throne than Henry VII?
ZeroMyHero99 11 months ago 6
@ZeroMyHero99 Truly ironic. They were both descendants of John of Gaunt, third son of Edward III. Henry and Arthur were descendants of his children by his relationship with his mistress Katherine Swynford, whom he married finally near the end of his life. By edict, they and their descendants were not to be eligible to inherit the throne. Henry VII took it in battle and held on for dear life. Catherine was a descendant of John's daughter by his second marriage to Constance of Castile.
galveston 1 week ago
I dont know why filmakers put Catherine with black or dark brown hair and eyes..... She was really blond hair and blue eyes, as all de decentens of Calalina de Láncaster...
USA and England think that there are no blonds among latin or hispanic people???? --- >They are stupids! Meet Latinoamérica well!
PSYQUE23 1 year ago 2
@PSYQUE23 Umm I live in the US among a huge hispanic population. Some have predominately European (Spanish) DNA, and others Asian. NONE of them have blonde hair or blue eyes. Catherine obviously had mixed ancestry. The hispanics that I know do not have mixed ancestry. It seems that you really need a history lesson in genetics and DNA.
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berinaxaule 1 year ago
6:51 - "the bee-trooth-ul was formalized..." Lol. I know you English people have dibbs on the pronunciation of English words, but I think we can all agree that doesn't sound right.
AWickedMind 1 year ago
@AWickedMind well, it is *their* language, after all. Another ugly american.
kendahke 10 months ago
@kendahke As I myself stated. Though even in proper English dialect the word was indeed mispronounced, which I lightheartedly remarked upon for a giggle. But as you're obviously a dense, rude, humorless twat I guess you didn't pick up on that. Have a nice day, dipshit!
AWickedMind 10 months ago
@AWickedMind and you can't help dropping into the gutter and revealing just how lacking you are in intelligence. You have a nice day, asshat.
kendahke 1 month ago
@kendahke WOW, nine *months* later. It took you that long to brainstorm a comeback? Clearly, you are brilliant.
AWickedMind 1 month ago
If only he lived!!!
theGimmeSympathyProj 1 year ago
One of the most tragic victims of medieval royal dynastic breeding programs.
helmuthoorn 1 year ago
Wait a min if Authur was the eldest Prince of of England, why was he not KING? IT GOES TO THE ELDEST not the youngest?
Hattaru 1 year ago
@Hattaru Because he died before his father did (he was just a teenager when he died...really sad). When Arthur died, his younger brother Henry became the heir to the throne.
Nicollie1062 1 year ago
@Nicollie1062 whoa haha i thought i was watching this for the first time.. and then going through the comments I come across a comment I wrote 8 months ago.. I don't even remember writing that...what a trip!
Nicollie1062 8 months ago
@Hattaru Prince Arthur died while his father, Henry VII, was still alive and king. He was next in line to the throne but died before he succeeded. That left his younger brother Henry next in line, who did eventually succeed their father and became Henry VIII.
bbbb1000 1 year ago
i don't think katherine slept with arthur. She was very religious, and on her deathbed she swore to god that she had been a virgin when she married henry.
PaleLittleGirl1 1 year ago
She was beautiful, intelligent, faithful. She is a role model for others girls and wome.
psychkim2009 1 year ago
The comentaries in spanish are very gorgeus hahahaha Katherine says "how many time Arthur will be here?" and her maiden answer "Two weeks", and she reply: "Two weeks... in the bed?" HAHAHAHAHAHA
HartiaKozu 1 year ago
He said 1503, just imagine, a hundred years later England would be so different, and Queen Elizabeth would just have died. I can't imagine the tudors story lasted for about a hundred years.
mckfrr 1 year ago
I personally think that the marriage was consummated, but on the other hand, it's not impossible that it wasn't. Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette's marriage wasn't consummated for 7 years after all.
Starlightchan 1 year ago
She was betrothed at age five, and no one taught her English... but they *did* teach her Latin? lol
CatAtomic99 1 year ago
@CatAtomic99 Latin was the language of not only the Church, but of royalty. Catherine's parents made sure that she and her older siblings received a well rounded education, something she passed down to Mary. Also, betrothals (especially royal ones) weren't set in stone. They could be broken between betrothal and marriage for various reasons. She probably didn't learn English for this reason, just in case either party broke the betrothal contract.
janeyrevanescence12 1 year ago
@CatAtomic99 Read your history. Latin, even when I went to school was still being learned. Some Churches were still performing services in latin, and this was back in the 60's.
Saffron49 1 year ago
I read an amazing book called "Patience, Princess Catherine" and it was the story of the young Catherine of Aragon's marrige to Arthur and Henry written by Carolyn Meyer!
PeaceLoveSmile4 1 year ago
@PeaceLoveSmile4 Pure fiction. Try reading Six Wives of Henry VIII by Alison Weir for something more grounded in reality.
haroof 1 year ago
@haroof amen! one of the best books written on the subject
PaleLittleGirl1 1 year ago
@PeaceLoveSmile4 There is another book of the younger life of chatherine written by philippa gregory its very good aswell.
FleurDelavour 1 year ago
I believe that they went to bed together, and that it's possible that he got on top of her and wasn't impotent at all-- but nevertheless still did not manage to make it past her maidenhead without prematurely ejaculating outside her, possibly just on her pudenda or between her thighs or on her tummy. He might have convinced himself that he'd done the deed, and she might not have known any better until comparing notes with a woman who'd been married. No other explanation makes as much sense.
Najwalaylah 1 year ago
You've made a compelling argument for Arthur's Assassination !
Roddyoneeye 1 year ago
Tuberculosis? I thought Arthur died of a disease called sweating sickness
Snezhinka9 1 year ago
She walks in a strange way..: Anyway I'm reading The constant princess of Philippa Gregory, and I just love the story, that Arthur and Cataina had, and it's so sad he had to dye so young, just think if he didn't dye, england would have had such a different history!!! ...
Martinuccia2311 1 year ago
Just so you know Gregory's book have very little historical fact in them. Most of what she writes she makes up.
bluemoon86 1 year ago 4
So what? isn't it true that Arthur died at 17? couldn't it be true that they where in love? what do you know? isn't it true that england would have had a very very different history if Katherine and Arthur became Queen and King, had a son and heir?? ...
Martinuccia2311 1 year ago 2
@Martinuccia2311 it is indeed one of the most fetching stories
ThePurpleduchess 1 year ago
Henry and Katherine's daughter Mary, became the infamous "Bloody Mary".
gotch09 2 years ago
What is this from? A TV program?
Mirichan 2 years ago
It is a documentary, although I do not know the original name. I believe the uploader of these movies has cut them in peaces that belong to each other.
melvinhendrikse 2 years ago
Starkey made another mistake besides that she was sixteen and Arthur was actually fifteen. Both Arthur and Katherine were fluent in French as well as Latin -- the Latin was mentioned but the French wasn't.
Alison Weir's wonderful "The Six Wives of Henry VIII" brings up that both Queen Elizabeth of York and her mother-in-law Margaret Beaufort personally wrote to Queen Isabella of Castile and suggested that the young Katherine should learn French, as it was spoken at the English court.
InnateNobility 2 years ago
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I can't believe the whole "Katherine was a virgin when she married Henry" is still being recited and believed by so many. Give me a BREAK. Two teenagers, married and in a castle alone together----hmmm, I wonder? And if the marriage wasn't consumated then why did they insist on waiting several months after Arthur had died, to make sure Katherine wasn't pregnant? And as far as it being impossible that she lied, she was HUMAN. She wasn't a SAINT. She lied to ensure Mary's legitimacy. Period.
insaneforjulian 2 years ago
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true true i dont believe it either i find crap cuz their hormones are just as bad as the teens of today are.
Tekirai 2 years ago
@insaneforjulian if she was a virgin or not does not matter. at that time could kill a woman for being unfaithful (fijate what happened to Anne and she was innocent) ..
LeN0Re18 2 years ago
they still kill women for being unfaithful, in Islamic countries.
evaperonfan 1 year ago
@evaperonfan don't generalise please it is a blatantly cruel act and not many (not the fanatics i mean) still perform such a horrendous act
ThePurpleduchess 1 year ago
I agree with you, insaneforjulian. Forget Phillipa Gregory's books, the historical circumstances simply don't support the fact that Katherine and Arthur didn't sleep together. There's no reason to believe they didn't. None. Arther died young, but *many* died young. There's no evidence that he was too sick to have intercourse.
galveston 1 year ago
@galveston
not to mention it wasn't like they kissed at the wedding, got sick, and he died. There was a time in the middle where they were living together. This would've been like a honeymoon. I know people that never stopped having sex on their honeymoon.
blackmumba111 1 year ago
@blackmumba111 well, a love match is a lot different than an arranged, political marriage.
tranurse 1 year ago
@tranurse
yeah but it was the responsibility of the heir to the throne to produce an heir ASAP and Katherine already felt that it was her destiny to give birth. I'm not saying definitively. I just think they did it...it's my opinion.
blackmumba111 1 year ago
@tranurse
Yes, but it was duty of the heir to produce an heir ASAP. Katherine felt that it was her destiny to give birth to the future King of England. It's just my opinion. I think they did it. I'm not going to argue with anyone and defend my position. It just seems they wanted an heir, so they did it. My opinion doesn't matter anyway.
blackmumba111 1 year ago
This was a very interesting clip. It added some details that helped me understand the book "The Constant Princess" a little better. I find this period in history very fascinating!
PrincessAdriannas 2 years ago 11
@PrincessAdriannas
Yes, "The Constant Princess" was indeed a wonderful book. Very enlightening on the person that Katherine of Aragon was as a private person. I don't believe there has ever been a more faithful, and loving Queen before, or since Katherine. She was the epitome of what a "true lady" was. People from this era could learn so much from the way Katherine conducted her life. So noble, loving, and true to the very end.
QueenCatherineParr 1 year ago
Katherine's oldest sister, Isabel married the king of Portugal (Manuel) and died in childbirth. So Maria another older sister married him afterwards as a replacement. Manuel was 13 years older than Maria.
-------
If Katherine ended up marrying Henry 7th he would have been 28 years older. It would not have been unthinkable in those times.
frankantoniomartin 2 years ago
Wasn't Katherine also the sister of 'Joanna The Mad'?
MethodForDisaster 1 year ago
Yes, Katherine was the sister of 'Joanna The Mad'? who was the mother of generations of inbred Hapsburgs.
frankantoniomartin 1 year ago
@MethodForDisaster
Juana the mad.
blackmumba111 1 year ago
All that we know of Caterina or Katharine points to her innate goodness and piety. When, years later, she was commanded before Henry VIII and a court set on annuling her marriage, she proclaimed before everyone, "...well you know, my Lord, that to thy bed a maid I came..." To my mind it is inconceivable that she would have lied about this, or misrepresented the facts. The King, it is said, could not look her in the face, 'but turned away'.
zimnaya 2 years ago
Zimnaya, yes she was a good person. but her telling the truth would have condemned her daughther to being a bastard. Motherhood trumps all.
galveston 1 year ago
catherine was the best kindest queen
Bubble734 2 years ago 7
Catherine is so cute!
NA60469 2 years ago 3
katherine born to be queen
LeN0Re18 2 years ago 3
is it true
67hope 2 years ago 4
The dispensation actually allowed either Henry the 7th or Henry the 8th to marry Catherine. The mother died on 11-Feb-1503, only 10 months after her son. Henry was not even made Prince of Wales until 18-Feb-1504 (98 weeks after his brother died). Since she may have found herself married to her former father-in-law, it is likely that she was very confused. The sex with the young Arthur may have been clumsily performed, leading her to believe that she was a virgin.
frankantoniomartin 2 years ago
@frankantoniomartin ew! marry her father in law!
KiwiCutie181 2 years ago
while Catherine was still young, her Spanish family began their famous inbreeding program where every single marriage was between cousins or uncles and nieces. Charles II, was born 125 years after Catherine's death (6 generations descended from her sister) . He was a monstrous drooling impotent idiot who didn't learn to walk until the age of 8. He was the inevitable result of generations of inbreeding.
---
There are worse things then having to marry your father in law.
frankantoniomartin 2 years ago
Can someone be so kind and send me the information about a documentary of Katherine of Aragon.Thank you very much to all.
312827JCK 2 years ago
Katherine of Aragon and anne bolyen
are my 2 fave of the wives
halyie 2 years ago 2
Actually TB, consumption was used to describe many ailments. I do geneology and some of my relatives death certificates have consumption as their death, but in actual fact it was more likely to be pneuomonia, flu etc. People died from the flu quite often, they still do in many countries.
Saffron49 2 years ago
wasn't an ancient tale that the man who married his dead brother's wife will produce no male heir or something like that, I heard it I don't no where but I don't know if it's true
DonnyButterfly15 2 years ago
It was from the Bible, Leviticus 20:21, "And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's nakedness; they shall be childless."
astrea79 2 years ago 2
if it was a lie, it makes u wonder for wat reason it was told. She could have gone back to Spain and easily been married off again to somewhere else, and i dont think that Katherine would have done it because she was in love her 11 yr old brother in law. i guess we'll never kno
soccergirl97979 2 years ago
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but would she get the chance to be a Queen again? I think it was her ambition and pride as a Spanish infanta. Most of her sisters were Queens or Archduchesses [which was equivalent to a queen in the low lands]. If she was married off again, I doubt she'd get another crown. Her value had diminished with the first marriage. She'd be a countess or duchess or princess consort.
DahliaRich 2 years ago
very tru and interesting opinion
soccergirl97979 2 years ago
Yes & she had been raised since a young child to believe her destiny was to be Queen of england. Her mother's death had changed the poltical situation & made her less valuable as a bride. If the marriage had been consumated that value would be even further decreased as she hadn't succeded in getting pregnant.
ollierat9 2 years ago
@ollierat9 Also virginity had a very high market value on its own. Fecundity as well, definitely, but virginity more so.
imasinnerimasaint 1 year ago
Katherine wasn't in love with Henry when he was 11. She was thinking of her situation. Marriage was the goal. It was the way a young princess secured her future and had a purpose. Hopefully, love would come later. She fell in love with Henry much later, albeit before the marriage. There was seven years between Arthur's death and her marriage to Henry.
galveston 2 years ago 3
@soccergirl97979 Could have been under pressure from Henry VII, who didn't want to lose the dowry. Would be easier to get papal dispensation for marriage to either Henry VII or VIII if she had not slept with Arthur. Wouldn't be impossible if she had slept with him, but easier if she hadn't.
imasinnerimasaint 1 year ago
One would think that having know she was going to live in England as an adult since the age of 5 that she would take the time to learn english!
snappingt 2 years ago
Its a shame on British Govt to shelters and finance the immigrant women from the third world, on the pretence of marriage to British man and then having the intention of betraying the man so that they can settle on her own in England and live on the taxpayers expense.
IndiaCobra 2 years ago
OMG! I agree! They are doing the same here in America- with anchor babies...
GoddessofHyrule 2 years ago
There are 28 thousand women enter in England by deceiving marriage and settle in this country were by man are struggling at the border. Man can go to hell. This government is of blind basterd. I am not against women but this is not fare
IndiaCobra 2 years ago
I've been reading up about the evidence that COA consummated her marriage to Arthur. As far as I can tell, the allegations that she did indeed consummate the marriage appear to have materialize many years after the fact. Henry VIII furiously demanded evidence that arthur and COG were intimate, so there would be clear incentive to make up a story stating that they did. Apparently Henry VIII even admitted she was virgin when he married her early on.
muffility12 2 years ago 13
@muffility12 Shh, speak no evil, see no evil, hear no evil
snakedemon11 1 year ago
I've always admired this brave woman who was every inch her mother's daughter! Henry would later say that if he was still free to choose a bride he would choose her....
fulhamfan1990 2 years ago 4
Catherine claimed that the marraige was not consumated when Henry tried to divorce her
gattaki6 2 years ago
How many mistakes has Starkey made in the documentary? Arthur can't have died of Tubercilosis as Catherine had the same disease and there would have been serious after effects if she had had tubercilosis
katharinethequene 2 years ago
hello....infertility....and they never said they had the same disease....just similar.
blackmumba111 2 years ago
She wasn't infertile, just very unlucky. Many many children died a a very early age, micarriages,and stillbirths were common.
katharinethequene 2 years ago 5
true, katherine was most likely not infertile. Her lack of children, was likely the fault of her husband, Henry, whom it suggested had herpes. Noticed all Henry's children, from Catheirne and his other wives, died or the ones who survived were weak or sickly. for example, Edward VI lived only 'til fifteen, Elizabeth I was prone to sickness, it's said that for week's at a time she was unable to
move.
DahliaRich 2 years ago
and also Mary was very frail and died of a tumor. and those were only from his wives. how healthy was the bastard Henry Fitzroy whom he had gotten off of Bessie Blount?
soccergirl97979 2 years ago
Henry Fitzroy died when he was 17.
galveston 2 years ago
Some historians speculate that Henry's infidelities were the source of syphilis for him, which some think was the reason for the difficulties his wives had in carrying infants to term or delivering them live.
SashaSpy91 2 years ago 5
And Arthur was also 15, not 14.
Got on so well? They had barely spoken to eachother!
katharinethequene 2 years ago
What evidence can you show to prove this?
DahliaRich 2 years ago
What do you mean? I've already said because otherwise we would see after effects for Catherine, and there were none.
katharinethequene 2 years ago
I mdon't believe it was consummated, there is too much evidence to the contrary.
katharinethequene 2 years ago
love it!!!!!!!
tudorfan1500 2 years ago
If Prince Arthur hadn't of died we would have had a King Arthur. The legends of king arthur nearly came true.
FrostyByte 2 years ago 9
Katharine had golden hair that fell to her knees. She was said to have been one of the most beautiful women in Europe.
ForEverSnoopy 2 years ago 28
@ForEverSnoopy all women at that time wore their hair down to the curve of their back or down to their knees that was how ppl believed women should look in those days so i dont know why you make it sound like she was the only one
donnylovesayesha1 1 year ago
@ForEverSnoopy then why is the girl playing her...not? gahhh historical inaccuracies!!!!!!!!! sadface sadface...i wish they had Tv back then :P
IdiotWithMovieMaker 1 year ago
@ForEverSnoopy i agree yet this katherine SCARES me :/
Tekirai 1 year ago
@ForEverSnoopy Really? Cool
snakedemon11 1 year ago
i feel bad for katherine overall.always dissappointment...
severyn1982 2 years ago 4
Too bad Arthur died in such a young age. Those disease during that time came like a plague
leechanSS501 2 years ago 5
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ladynikkie 3 years ago
katherine was supposed to be beautiful in her youth im not really seeing it here honestly.
soccergirl97979 3 years ago
you Paintings Don't do justice, there was a basic image for both that of men and women that was always the template for Kings and queens, to give them a strong royal look, it's hard to say what people really looked like tbh. But if you were talking about the Actors I know right! Couldn't they have found someone a little better looking. Kbye.
SasukeRaiden 2 years ago
I know, the actress who played Catherine Howard looke dmore like her. They gave the actress who played Catherine Parr a redheaded wig, could they not have done the smae for this lady at least?
katharinethequene 2 years ago 3
She was 15 not 16 when they were married
katharinethequene 2 years ago
what was the sweat?
AndromedaMariaCarmen 3 years ago
The sweating sickness. It was a flu like virus that had outbreaks in and around England for a few centuries, then disappeared. It caused excessive sweating, flu like symptoms. and killed many people. Some lucky people recovered (Anne Boleyn was sickened with it); some didn't.
galveston 3 years ago
They arestill not exactly sure what it was, as the Tudors didn't leave much description of it but galveston is right in their discription
katharinethequene 3 years ago 2
Wow her clothing and apperiance is innaccurate, and this is supposed to be a DOCUMENTRAY!
katharinethequene 3 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Katarine no was so ugly
gusi313 3 years ago
Henry should never have left Catherine. Though when you think about it Anne Boleyns daughter Elizabeth I was the greatest queen England has ever had.
britneystars2 3 years ago 4
thanks...i've been reading a lot about tudor history...it's very interesting because every little detail in history affects another...and how it can be related ..
aleluzmi 3 years ago 2
I agree about the details. Henry and Arthur's grandmother, Margaret, treated them very differently. Arthur the heir had a well disciplined upbringing while Margaret indulged and spoiled young Henry. What if Henry hadn't been so spoiled? Would he have been less selfish and reckless in his pursuit of a divorce from Catherine to the point of breaking from Rome? What if Arthur had lived long enough to give Catherine a son? What kind of ruler would he have been?
galveston 3 years ago
I don't think so. What really drove Henry to divorce Catalina was the fact that in 20 years of being married, she didn't give him the prince he "needed". Didn't really have anything with being spoiled (thought that is debatable), it was to do with him being sexist.But he was raise that way, so your right. If he wasn't raised with the whole "a woman can't rule a country" bull, it might have turned out differently.
pantherpatty 3 years ago 4
By his "spoiled" behavior I mean how cruel Henry was, in particular that he wouldn't allow Mary to see her mother if Mary didn't acknowledge Anne as queen. That's excessive and unnecessarily cruel. He had his new queen. Why did Mary have to bend to his will in writing and declare herself a bastard? That's what a spoiled child would do. Agree with me or else! Mary never saw Catherine again. It's hard not to wonder how Catherine's life would have been better if Arthur had died.
galveston 3 years ago 8
Oops! I mean if Arthur had *lived,* not died. :)
galveston 3 years ago 2
Well....thats Henry for you. He was a tyrant in all means of the word. He was cruel and always insisted on his way. Poor Catalina and Mary. In that means, he was very spoiled indeed.
pantherpatty 3 years ago 4
yeah, i felt sorry for Catherine. she was very young when she died.
ladynikkie 3 years ago
she wasnt 35 when she died she ws 50 years old anne the 2nd wife was about 35 when she was killed but katherine lived until she was 50 i found out on the Wikipedia
halyie 2 years ago 4
my mistake. thanks!
ladynikkie 2 years ago
@ladynikkie Catherine Howard died as a teenager though. Beheaded. She was Henry's 5th wife.
imasinnerimasaint 1 year ago
In a way the whole divorce was pointless as Mary ebcame Queen anyway, and if she hadnt suffered so much in her childhood Im sure she would have followed int he footsteps of her Gradmother, Isabl, and her mother, Catherine and been a great queen.
katharinethequene 3 years ago 2
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Yea and mad to boot. The Spanish royal house was known for carrying traits of insanity, perfect examples were Juana [Catalina's sister] Isabela [allegedly] and her mother [Catalina's grandmother]. It is supposed that this trait eventually was introduced to all the European royal houses.
DahliaRich 2 years ago
@DahliaRich dont confuse depression with insanity
CherryBooooomb 9 months ago
Ah, SPANISH Spanish is so pretty.
Concetta20 3 years ago 8
the guy who played arthur is cute. spam me if u want. lol
tinapie23 3 years ago 10
He is cute. I'm so glad this documentary noted that Arthur and Catherine did get along for however briefly they were married.
galveston 3 years ago 5
i wonder how english history would have changed if arthur would have survive the sweating sickness (pardon my english..i'm peruvian xD)
aleluzmi 3 years ago 3
Your English is good, aleluzmi. That is an excellent question. I think Catherine certainly would have had more happiness in her life. She might have been able to have a son with Arthur. England wouldn't have broken from Rome, but I think England eventually would have become a protestant country anyway--with less pain and violence. Protestant literature was growing more and more common. The reformation wouldn't have happened as soon as it did, but it would have happened.
galveston 3 years ago
i don't know. It was a mutual process. The English reformation definitely increased the pace of European protestant revolution. For example, with the Hugenots, English support from Elizabeth I helped their cause. Hell what do I know? Anne Boleyn might have seduced Arthur too and then we would just end up with the same situation.
DahliaRich 2 years ago
Can someone tell me what this is please XDDI want to watch the whole thing!
Antoinette2190 3 years ago 3
"The Wives of Henry VIII" Documentary by David Starkey.
queenelizabeth1533 3 years ago
It may be the Bubonic plague?
andreazere 3 years ago
Come think of it they didn't bathe as often in that period Tudor England
Kellyannk308 3 years ago 4
No, they didn't. The servants would have to bring the bathroom, cart in water to fill it, after presumably heating it. Taking a bath was an undertaking. Bathing once a week would be about normal. You'd sponge bathe at other times.
galveston 3 years ago 7
OH YUK that is grosss
Kellyannk308 3 years ago 2
sorry, *tht her marrage 2 athur was consumated
NaughtyLittleNatz 3 years ago
I can't imagine being Catherine's position; being only sixteen years old, married for 5 months to a 14 year old you barely know before he dies.
coolperson50613 3 years ago 5
Yeh, then forced to marry Henry who then divorced her, changed the face of religion in england and took away her daughter until she lied and said her marrage to athur and that Mary was a bastard.
NaughtyLittleNatz 3 years ago
i dont understand what the problem was if they did consummate the marriage? why did it stop Henry from marrying her?
mrjames9999 3 years ago
A verse in Leviticus says that a man who marries a dead brother's wife will remain childless (Mary didn't count; she was a girl). However, other biblical verses contradict this and tell a man to marry her. As with divorce (which can be gotten around by the church granting an annulmentj) this could be gotten around with a "dispensation" issued by the Pope. It was an excuse used by Henry when he didn't get a son. The church was "wrong." Catherine's "sin" was sleeping with Arthur, her husband.
galveston 3 years ago
This is what strikes me, they say Arthur died of the sweating sickness and he died six months after their wedding but isn't it said that usually after catching the sweat that they would die about two days later? I really don't believe in that Theory but Katherine did secure the alliance with Spain and England so I guess it was for the best.
XxjOyRiDeRXx 3 years ago
Arthur could have contracted the sweating sickness (or tuberculosis) after they traveled to Ludlow. TB is communicable from person to person. People traveled back and forth. Some believe the sweating sickness was transmitted by rodents or fleas; there were always mice in those castles. Arthur became ill in late March and died April 2. Katherine's life probably would have been happier in the long run had he lived, but we'll never know.
galveston 3 years ago
The English Sweate wasn't TB. TB was Consumption. The nature of the Sweate is unknown, though several hypotheses have been put forward.
rlinfinity 3 years ago 2
Was it a type of hanta virus from rats? Brought over by sailors on their ships perhaps?
galveston 3 years ago
I read it was bought across with Henry VII and his army from France to defeat Richard III
Biggsy1988 3 years ago
Consumption was used to describe a variety of diseases in thos