Response to agnosticman77 by Jordan (YahoshuaMyLord)

[alex21rw]

If Jesus was to appear, and Agnostic man still did not believe he would not be able to be saved BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE FAITH... whereas Thomas at the end of the story did.

[crazypills2]

@alex21rw f "Jesus was to appear, and Agnostic man still did not believe he would not be able to be saved BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE FAITH... whereas Thomas at the end of the story did."

Thomas' belief was the result of evidence. I suppose that if agman had the same evidence as Thomas, he also would believe. The problem is that no such evidence exists. Am I wrong?

[alex21rw]

@crazypills2 In my case for evidence I use the bible. I believe everything in it is true and that the bible is an axiom. It does not matter what you use to motivate your faith, whether touching Jesus or simply reading the Bible it's either you believe or you don't. If you don't have faith or doubt the savior you unfortunately go to hell, simple (ex: agman). One should not disregard the lord or savior just because he does not have physical evidence.

[crazypills2]

@alex21rw "In my case for evidence I use the bible."

What evidence do you have that the bible is true? It is filled with errors and contradictions. I have several videos on this topic.

[alex21rw]

@crazypills2 Plus if you completely think the bible is a lie and just a bunch of misinterpreted stories, then why even use Thomas' story as an example to use as an argument to support agnosticism, not much sense is made in this video.

[crazypills2]

@alex21rw "Plus if you completely think the bible is a lie and just a bunch of misinterpreted stories, then why even use Thomas' story as an example to use as an argument to support agnosticism..."

Actually, this isn't my video, but was posted for a friend.

[alex21rw]

Ok big guy you are completely misinterpreting what the "fundamental Christians" are saying in their comments.

1. In order to be saved you HAVE TO HAVE FAITH which Thomas eventually had, which ultimately is what got him saved. Not only that, but Agnostic man is doubting our Savior, just like Thomas did before Jesus touched him, so the fundamental Christians have a right to say that Agnostic Man will not be saved according to their beliefs.

[ProveYourFaith]

The greater lie is that God wants everyone to be saved. What makes the ag-man think God wants him to believe?

[GodofChaos45]

Not to mention that Paul also was told by Jesus in the light to stop persecuting him. You don't need faith after that.

[AlyKid2k8]

The internet is for porn, the internet is for porn, why do you think the net was born...? PORN PORN PORN :)

[YogiToad]

A Christian using logic! NO! It can't be...nO! No! NO! no! (shivering) nononononononon!!! It can't be... can it? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo­oooo!!!! Stellaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa­aaaa!!

[Blindapostle]

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Even in those time people seen Him and the miracles and stilled did not believe. Like yourself. You would need visual proof to gain your faith. Thomas probably was a gnostic, skeptical and by God's grace he saved him and used him as an example knowing that we today would have to have faith. We would have to believe without seeing Jesus.

[338dmac]

..... Yeah, that's not proof of.... ANYthing.... The bible's not proof of anything unless you can prove it true, so....

And I don't see how you get faith through proof. You can get BELIEF through proof, but if it's proven you can't have FAITH in it, because FAITH requires A) a lack of supporting evidence, and/or B) evidence that suggests to the contrary. If you "know" those things happened, then you believe in god because you have "proof", so faith cannot apply. Further, if Jesus did that...

[338dmac]

stuff so that we'd have the "proof", then he prevented us from being saved through faith because we can't have faith in something that's proven to have happened or proven to exist.

[Blindapostle]

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Then read,

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us...

What is the Word and if the Word was God and became flesh, then there is only one that can attain that role, Jesus Christ because there was no sin found in Him. What does this mean to you?

Rev 1:8 I am the Alpha and Omega, says the Lord God (Jehovah Elohim) who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty. Almighty (Alshaddi)

[338dmac]

Gee, thanks for wasting my time and filling my comment box with garbage. Now, can you even THINK for yourself? Or are you just going to cite empty scripture? I'm gonna start citing George Carlin books if you don't stop, pal, there's really no point to you doing this and my last comment still stands; you are proving NOTHING. Now do you have an argument, or not? At this point I'll even take a half-assed, opinionated one, as long as it has a point to it. And Jesus DID sin; he LIED. Matthew 21:21-22

[myintellectualjourny]

Also, azsuperman had a video where he responded to this idea of Christians that the biblical God is hidden so as not to coerce us to believe but give us space to choose to have faith rather than be manipluated into belief. He brings up Paul's own conversion experience. Paul didn't believe in Jesus as a God but did believe in the Jewish God. So did God "coerce" Paul into believing? Do Jews like Paul & Thomas get special privileges here? The bible says God doesn't play favorites. Problem.

[DURound]

This is a pretty good question posed here.

I like this video.

[Blogrich55]

Jesus Himself tells us the words of father Abraham to the rich man who died in Luke 16:31 that the man's brothers had Moses and the prophets' writings and if they did not believe THOSE they also wouldn't be persuaded even if one rose from the dead.

Judas was an eye witness of Jesus' ministry and miracles. He did not believe either.More importantly you make a false dichotomy between faith in the unseen and faith in the sensory that is not biblical. You can NOT believe everything you see.

[JimTL1000R]

I always had a hard time geographically of the miracles of christianity. Only the select few ( in the cult) were allowed to see. When I came accross chinese were christian an or catholic I cracked up. Religion is nothing more than a mental band-aid for desperate people that are affraid to face death,except horrible things man has done or created, or personal challanges. Religion and faith have been around forever, its done nothing that any humane person would do anyways.

[freethinker3161]

wow, you are one of the most thoughtful Christians i have seen on youtube. props, and i am now a subscriber. im always looking to see people like you and i am looking forward to more of your vids.

[brainouty]

Agreed that every person has the right to get PERSONALIZED PROOF of God prior to believing. No one who ever believed in Christ did so absent proof. For me, I needed proof that the Gospel was true, and got it. Others have different needs.

Now, faith occurs because you have REASON to believe. So the idea that you'd have no faith if you had proof, is the OPPOSITE of what 'faith' means in Bible. (Cont.)

[brainouty]

from "(Cont.)"

You believe BECAUSE you have evidence. Else faith is a work, what arrogance! Oh, you're so good since YOU believe absent evidence, pat pat pat? LOL, only Calvinists think faith has merit.

Soul is data-dependent. It breathes by believing incoming data. So one must proof FIRST, in order to justify believing, i.e., proof that eating is a good thing, before you'll put food in your mouth.

So ask 'the ceiling' for the proof YOU need. Your proof will be unique, even as you are.

[WhatisaJugallo]

out of curiosity, what was the proof of the gospel that convinced you?

[brainouty]

WhatisaJugallo (play on gigalo?), the proof: God deserves to be paid for sin. The only definition of God worthy of the name would have to account for HOW God got paid for sin.

Only the Bible says how, & it only works juridically if God is Trinity, if Christ is God-man; else the necessary Payment QUALITY would be too low.

And the alternative was no life with GOD (the hell thingy never impressed me). So I believed, hence permanently saved.

[WhatisaJugallo]

It's a play on the band insane clown possie lol.

But you seem to make a few assumptions there (to me). How do we know God *has* been paid for sin? Given the very nature of an entity omnipotent and omniscient (I assume it would be possible to have a God devoid of omni-benevolence and omnipresence but that's beside the point) it's safe to say some of the finer points of them/it could escape our cognitive power. Likewise why is the bible's explanation the only good one? (cont.)

[WhatisaJugallo]

And if God is the trinity then why did he have to sacrifice himself to himself? (this has always been a source of confusion for me). If he did in fact want to save his creation couldn't he have just said "Here's me/my son believe in him and you'll be forgiven" Or for that matter (if you'll excuse the ruducto ad absurdium) "Here's a geopet, believe it's cuddly and you shall be saved"?

[brainouty]

WhatisaJugallo, I wrote out the reasoning in brainout(dot)net/Godindex(dot)­html.

[WhatisaJugallo]

That url 404's on me, would it be possible to PM a full link to me? It'd be appreciated.

[alphacause]

Great video. The story of Thomas is one I bring up often when demonstrating to Christians how unfair God is. Why is it okay for Thomas to require visual and tangible proof of Jesus' divinity, even though Thomas was a contemporary, and therefore had MORE reason to believe Jesus than people, such ourselves, who are 2000 years removed from the events in question? Most of the Apostles, such as Peter, also showed signs of doubt, and were only swayed by demonstrations of miracles.

[twinnumber3]

Thanks J/ CP. On faith, heathenforfun posted a vid today. Watched ag77- well,from a magickal POV he loaded his expt for failure by expecting nothing. And there's always IKings 19 (the tiny silent voice = God). Ive struggled with the lack of a helpful deity a long time- does that mean no deity; i didnt approach it correctly; i'm not a good vessel; whatever person was to be Deity's means of answer failed;? i dont know. I know i need to DO things like justice so i do and live with ?s

[AmGoDDoGmA]

Excellent Video! Jordan was my favorite person on youtube. I miss his videos so much, and I hope he eventually comes back. Thank you CrazyPills for allowing his videos to be posted on your channel.  We miss you Jordan, come back soon!

[8journey8]

When I was a christian I was driven by trying to be one of the *no problem* cases for god. Scripture showed time and again that god was Extra fond of those who were easily managed. My pastor assured me that was the best type of xian. I was willing to be a brownnose .Serious questioning not only irked god but put you on thin ice for salvation. Arguing god's case for him was a virtuous thing as evidently the bible was the last thing he was going to say about any subject. I'm atheist now, whew.

[gambleor]

That's fine, but your pastor was wrong. Most, if not all, of the prominent figures in the bible seriously questioned God. The name Israel itself actually means "he who wrestles with God."

[debbieomi]

That last word is my exact sentiment about no longer being Christian. I physically felt the load lifted from my shoulders and it was utter relief.

WHEW!