had canonical not entered the scene, would linux's popularity be even half of what it is right now?
the only reason linux hasnt progressed is because so many people inside the linux community is hell bent on making it look like a geek's OS. face it, these people who blame ubuntu and canonical etc. dont want linux to be available to the masses.
We could really use only BSD, but only if our society steps into edge where everyone's mind is interconnected and open with others, while possessing own personality. Wont be any crime, lies or such. No need to cloak. Its gods fault :) Pretty much Deus Ex IW JC Denton's ending.
Unprotected, vital milky cows(but please don't consume badges with their name, leave them on ground(BSD)) are very favorable target for wolves or controllers. We need loyal,open "dogs". Total freedom very quickly turns into total control. This freedom needs to be protected, and protection of freedom is the only non-free element in GPL(maybe apart with copyleft authorship). I hope you too can see my point.
I use gentoo anyway, but ubuntu did give nice desktop OS as a nice introduction to linux features for very general public, without encumbering proprietary stuff(with exception of drivers, but not without warning). Me aint Shuttleworth, not in position to precisely comment on this.
Stop useless arguing, gentlemen. Nvidia drivers are closed source only because of DRM NDAs. Arkblu is pretty much on the point. The only task now is to expand and provide services making donations for devs that provide features found usefull by the community and implement it in opensource. Server does not suck because it works just like this.
James' argument was about freedom and freedom is define as a lack of externally imposed restraints. So the GPL is more free than proprietary software, but it's not freedom.
2.Free-software rarely includes malicious features....
Very true but I'll like to add somethings.
The deal with DRM is when you sign up to iTunes, you agree to some form of a contact accepting the DRM. Also wtf is a spybot? Software that spies on the user?
If thats the case, Google Chrome( Free software btw) is a "spybot".
Last but not least, the windows backdoor.
This comment sounds very childish. Also, can you bring me proof of a Windows backdoor. It would help your argument.
Nay, robotic. Following your logic, call me a child too. Itunes includes DRM and is non-free. Google Chrome spyes hence there is Iron Project for the bold. Closed source sets great trouble on portability, error detection and correction, security, customization and free speech. You need proof on official windows backdoors? Check MS COFEE. Need more? Check various exploit sites. Got win? I got 1 second 443 SMB BSOD script, yes that easy and yet (many more) again. MS is trash as any closed source.
Well yes, I did get the video from google video; so what? I didn't make/copy an argument. But if you want to clam it as your argument then fine.
1. Respecting freedoms
If you're talking about the GPL than you don't know anything about. Freedom is define as a lack of externally imposed restraints. The GPL impose the restraints on the changes you made to source code. All changes to GPL software must be GPL.
Red Hat and Novell do give upstream and give inventions. Yet you cannot say they are The Opensource Movement. Because they PREVENT freedom of choice. Ubuntu running on users PC is no different from one used in-house or in corporate. They sell support, not code. But you cannot use RHEL or SLED without license.
Hence RHEL and SLED are FAIL, not Ubuntu.
Opensource is mainly being developed on Slackware/Archlinux, Debian and Gentoo. Others are just patch commiters.
@roboticterror, the case as same as with Debian vs Mozilla. Red hat has chosen the way of payment for software instead of paying for work. Much better would be to create a desktop OS with same quality as Ubuntu and contribute to it, instead of endless beta. Just crying out loud - we do more than Canonical is useless. RH does more in industrial sector than Ubuntu, but not on desktop. Novell is pretty good with Opensuse, just deals around mono and OOXML spoil a lot.
These distros work ONLY with vanilla software versions and UPSTREAM EVERYTHING: Slackware(it was always here), Archlinux, Gentoo.
These distros patch things, but UPSTREAM every bug that was in vanilla and publish own work on GPL: Debian, Ubuntu, Gentoo derivatives.
These distros either give you betas for free, so you spend time on debugging or sell stable ones for money. SOME amount is upstreamed : Red Hat(Fedora - beta), SLED(OpenSuse - beta ), Mandriva, Elive.
Ubuntu DOES NOT depend on Debian, but it IS A FRIEND. It takes snapshot of current Debians unstable branch, then packages it, debugs, invents, modifies and publishes it as next version, for users to test drive it. All bugs get UPSTREAMED(launchpad). This way BOTH Debian and Ubuntu win. Ubuntu does impressive amount of inventions, 10.04 will have HAL completely replaced by DeviceKit and UPSTREAMed. Nice try fcking things up, redhat.
This guy is paid by RH, right? Cause everything that he says is bullshit.
RH uses Fedora to testout bugs on users. Thats why Fedora is aways in testing phase. Suse does same with Open- version. You either pay and get stable or play with bugs.
Centos is JUST RHEL without logos.
Debian and Gentoo are both different, cause they feature separate stable, testing and unstable(hard mask) branches and are both opensource and free.
I don't know if he works for or is getting paid by Red Hat. Also most users knows Fedora is Red Hat's testing pool, same with Suse. I also don't see the big deal about playing with bugs for free, and paying for a stable product.
had canonical not entered the scene, would linux's popularity be even half of what it is right now?
the only reason linux hasnt progressed is because so many people inside the linux community is hell bent on making it look like a geek's OS. face it, these people who blame ubuntu and canonical etc. dont want linux to be available to the masses.
end result, linux loses.
TheArnabDas 2 years ago
@TheArnabDas I think the point is not to blame. The point is to show paths for improvement. Blaming in pure sense of blaming is useless.
lin545 1 year ago
We could really use only BSD, but only if our society steps into edge where everyone's mind is interconnected and open with others, while possessing own personality. Wont be any crime, lies or such. No need to cloak. Its gods fault :) Pretty much Deus Ex IW JC Denton's ending.
lin545 2 years ago
Unprotected, vital milky cows(but please don't consume badges with their name, leave them on ground(BSD)) are very favorable target for wolves or controllers. We need loyal,open "dogs". Total freedom very quickly turns into total control. This freedom needs to be protected, and protection of freedom is the only non-free element in GPL(maybe apart with copyleft authorship). I hope you too can see my point.
lin545 2 years ago
I use gentoo anyway, but ubuntu did give nice desktop OS as a nice introduction to linux features for very general public, without encumbering proprietary stuff(with exception of drivers, but not without warning). Me aint Shuttleworth, not in position to precisely comment on this.
lin545 2 years ago
Stop useless arguing, gentlemen. Nvidia drivers are closed source only because of DRM NDAs. Arkblu is pretty much on the point. The only task now is to expand and provide services making donations for devs that provide features found usefull by the community and implement it in opensource. Server does not suck because it works just like this.
lin545 2 years ago
OMFG This is a RMS argument.
I heard the same thing from him lol
roboticterror 2 years ago
GPL is not freedom. Freedom = whatever the fuck I want. AKA BSD LICENSE
GPL has restrictions. Stop using backwards retarded ass logic.
JamesManes 2 years ago
Speaking about BSD license, do you know why BSD is dying, James?
Because:
1) smartasses take BSD code, improve it and close it down.
2) .. and that without reporting back
3) .. and hence BSD actually HURTS opensource movement by empovering proprietary solutions
4) .. that make BSD always stay behind
GPL fixes that bug for good.
lin545 2 years ago
James' argument was about freedom and freedom is define as a lack of externally imposed restraints. So the GPL is more free than proprietary software, but it's not freedom.
roboticterror 2 years ago
First of all, all your points are completely invalid.
BSD is still more free than GPL, that was my argument.
JamesManes 2 years ago
2.Free-software rarely includes malicious features....
Very true but I'll like to add somethings.
The deal with DRM is when you sign up to iTunes, you agree to some form of a contact accepting the DRM. Also wtf is a spybot? Software that spies on the user?
If thats the case, Google Chrome( Free software btw) is a "spybot".
Last but not least, the windows backdoor.
This comment sounds very childish. Also, can you bring me proof of a Windows backdoor. It would help your argument.
roboticterror 2 years ago
Nay, robotic. Following your logic, call me a child too. Itunes includes DRM and is non-free. Google Chrome spyes hence there is Iron Project for the bold. Closed source sets great trouble on portability, error detection and correction, security, customization and free speech. You need proof on official windows backdoors? Check MS COFEE. Need more? Check various exploit sites. Got win? I got 1 second 443 SMB BSOD script, yes that easy and yet (many more) again. MS is trash as any closed source.
lin545 2 years ago
Well yes, I did get the video from google video; so what? I didn't make/copy an argument. But if you want to clam it as your argument then fine.
1. Respecting freedoms
If you're talking about the GPL than you don't know anything about. Freedom is define as a lack of externally imposed restraints. The GPL impose the restraints on the changes you made to source code. All changes to GPL software must be GPL.
roboticterror 2 years ago
@Arkblu
It sounds you just copy and paste your whole argument from RMS. Do you mind coming up with our own? (or is this it?)
roboticterror 2 years ago
@Arkblu How is it better? Please explain
roboticterror 2 years ago
Freedom doesn't get the job done.
Productivity and good grades or software "freedom"
Hard fucking choice.
JamesManes 2 years ago
Keep in mind, there is FOSS software out there that does get the job done.(server-side stuff)
Just not a lot of software for the everyday desktop user. Just saying
roboticterror 2 years ago
That is why i said grades. As in good bat life, note taking, college stuff.
JamesManes 2 years ago
To make shitty software that is free? Yay.
JamesManes 2 years ago
Red Hat and Novell do give upstream and give inventions. Yet you cannot say they are The Opensource Movement. Because they PREVENT freedom of choice. Ubuntu running on users PC is no different from one used in-house or in corporate. They sell support, not code. But you cannot use RHEL or SLED without license.
Hence RHEL and SLED are FAIL, not Ubuntu.
Opensource is mainly being developed on Slackware/Archlinux, Debian and Gentoo. Others are just patch commiters.
lin545 2 years ago
Sorry I don't understand how Novell and Red Hat limited choices. Please explain some more.
roboticterror 2 years ago
@roboticterror, the case as same as with Debian vs Mozilla. Red hat has chosen the way of payment for software instead of paying for work. Much better would be to create a desktop OS with same quality as Ubuntu and contribute to it, instead of endless beta. Just crying out loud - we do more than Canonical is useless. RH does more in industrial sector than Ubuntu, but not on desktop. Novell is pretty good with Opensuse, just deals around mono and OOXML spoil a lot.
lin545 2 years ago
@lin545 Patch committing is important. I would rather linux be closed source and good rather than open source and half-assed like it is now.
JamesManes 2 years ago
use mac or windows then.
lin545 2 years ago
These distros work ONLY with vanilla software versions and UPSTREAM EVERYTHING: Slackware(it was always here), Archlinux, Gentoo.
These distros patch things, but UPSTREAM every bug that was in vanilla and publish own work on GPL: Debian, Ubuntu, Gentoo derivatives.
These distros either give you betas for free, so you spend time on debugging or sell stable ones for money. SOME amount is upstreamed : Red Hat(Fedora - beta), SLED(OpenSuse - beta ), Mandriva, Elive.
lin545 2 years ago
Ubuntu DOES NOT depend on Debian, but it IS A FRIEND. It takes snapshot of current Debians unstable branch, then packages it, debugs, invents, modifies and publishes it as next version, for users to test drive it. All bugs get UPSTREAMED(launchpad). This way BOTH Debian and Ubuntu win. Ubuntu does impressive amount of inventions, 10.04 will have HAL completely replaced by DeviceKit and UPSTREAMed. Nice try fcking things up, redhat.
lin545 2 years ago
This guy is paid by RH, right? Cause everything that he says is bullshit.
RH uses Fedora to testout bugs on users. Thats why Fedora is aways in testing phase. Suse does same with Open- version. You either pay and get stable or play with bugs.
Centos is JUST RHEL without logos.
Debian and Gentoo are both different, cause they feature separate stable, testing and unstable(hard mask) branches and are both opensource and free.
lin545 2 years ago
I don't know if he works for or is getting paid by Red Hat. Also most users knows Fedora is Red Hat's testing pool, same with Suse. I also don't see the big deal about playing with bugs for free, and paying for a stable product.
roboticterror 2 years ago
Ubuntu just got pwnd.
platnumX 2 years ago