If a polinesian found that watch, he would probably thinking it was some kind of weird rock. There have been cases of Poinesians thinking that airplanes are birds and the bombs falling from those planes are eggs.
I do agree with everything these guys say, but they are unreasonably arrogant. Cutting that guy off was just rude--even interrupting him would have been enough. Sometimes that main host just has a glint in his eye that says "The only reason I'm here is to talk down to people"
When you see the eye on the beach, you know it is of a replicant because there is a vendor of replicant eyeballs a quarter mile down the beach. And because finding a replicant eyeball on the beach would be really, really cool. And finding a human eyeball would be disgusting.
@darkchibicosmos What if the watch says "Made by God, Father of Jesus". Check-F'ing-mate, atheists!
Guess I should have included a sarcasm tag on my original post as it was done tongue-in-cheek. Except the comment about Tracie- she's definitely hot. Call me, Tracie!
"Buildings and watches don't (occur naturally)." Watches are actually magic. Sorry, watches *do* occur naturally on this planet, I had one in the nineties when they were fashionable. They come about by the same biological principles as everything else. Human psychology was needed to create the watch, human psychology, watchmaking for example, is a behavior that evolved based on mechanical principles. People in fact, are actually robots, none of us has any agency whatsoever. PROBLEMATIC.
It's almost impossible to change a belief. At the psychological level these people who call to argue the point of whether or not there is a "god", as defined in christian dogma, are most likely unaware that they most likely don't believe it themselves. If you truly believe you need not defend your position.
Not one of Matt's best responses, I'd say, but evidently he spoke to the topic earlier in the show.
The caller was probably heading in the eye-too-complex-to-evolve direction. Darwin himself, in the "Origin," specifically brought up the eye (and its complexity) as a potential negation of his theory. (There's a scientist: making the *opposite* case as best he can.) But Darwin, even with the data available in 1859, showed that all the stages in an eye's evolution occur *now* in various creatures.
@shimwah Don't hold your breath. No scientist will ever attempt to prove negatives because to do so would not be scientific. Theories start with empirical observations (facts) and science seeks to establish pathways to bolster theory. Supernatural belief of any kind, including gods, will never rise to theoretical states because no observations can be made. Now, here is a bit of personal belief which is also very, very, very likely true: ALL gods are MYTH! Prove otherwise.
@detroitboy65 'Supernatural belief of any kind, including gods, will never rise to theoretical states because no observations can be made'.
Just because we don't have methods for observing things now does not mean we never will. There was a time when Auras were questionable now you can take a photograph of it. No doubt science will take much of what we now call pseudoscience & prove it as fact. It is possible today's religious definitions or interpretations of God are wrong.
@shimwah "Auras" are nothing more than weak emissions of radiation that are quite natural in all living and non-living matter. There may even be something in the idea that auras can indicate changes in health. None of this means that there is anything supernatural or paranormal about auras. The Human body is an electrical machine and contains enough potential to light a 100w bulb. No miracle. To believe in supernatural phenomena is the height of illogical pursuit.
@detroitboy65 The analogy was not to show auras as a supernatural phenomena. It was to demonstrate that what we once called bullshit or supernatural phenomena is now known as a natural part of a living creature or matter. We learn we grow. What we now call a creator or God also may one day be demonstrated as a natural part of our understanding of the universe.
Once photography is developed that can take pictures of God, I'll believe he exists. Until then, believing in a God out of faith is foolish and there is no good reason to do so.
By the way there's very little scientific evidence relating to auras. I consider it plausible that our bodies generate some kind of energy field. The brain and nervous system use electricity after all. That in no way is evidence for any of the supernatural mystical bullshit associated with the concept.
@Kayyyleb We still have a lot to learn. And in time we will learn. And we may be surprised to find some of what we now call whoo becomes accepted fact. Then again we may not. At least science can admit it is wrong when given verifiable evidence. Religion does not. It claims absolutes.
I agree with you. Until the proof is there we need to deal with our known reality
@shimwah what god what if they say the Hinduism is the correct religion, or Norse myth therefore making Christian belief obsolete. Lets not forget people usually focus on Christian/Islamic/Jewish religion without realizing you all may believe in utter crap.
@MsOneiroi77 in fact what if these so called advanced scientific techniques prove god(s) dont exist? What then some people will still run on blind faith.
@MsOneiroi77 What we believe is all utter crap. I agree. There are so many truths and beliefs because individuals interpretations of truth are different. Shit there are thousands of versions of Christianity alone who disagree on the same teachings in the bible The truth remains the truth regardless of belief.
@shimwah yes I agree with you there are so many sects of Christianity (as well as other religions) and they all think their interpretation is the truth while condoning other people who follow the same religion. For instance baptists think they're the only ones to be saved the WBC think everyone's going to hell except their rather bizarre little church. The truth remains the truth regardless of belief but must have evidence to be the truth. Religion is just second guessing at best.
There are in fact millions of different versions of every religion because no one follows it the same way. And truth does not remain truth when it was never proven to be truth in the first place. You just tried to chastise me for making "absolute" statements then you turn around and not only do exactly that, but also base it entirely off of faith and call it truth.
@Kayyyleb Um it seems you are missing my whole point. Truth IS absolute. That is why it is truth. As a definition it is defined as, a verified or undisputed fact. Chastising you? We see a history of mankind making absolute claims and calling it truth when in fact it was not. We are no different today. Our ancestors did not consider walking on the moon to be possible but yes we have now walked on the moon. Once a fantasy now a reality. Understand?
@Kayyyleb Just so you do understand where I'm coming from. I am not religious nor do I use faith beliefs or hope to live my life. I make no absolute claims and fail to see where I have done so in my posts. I do expect we will one day find an answer for the existence of God. I look forward to this day and the end of all the bullshit bickering and endless debating on who has the truth. Imagine!!
We already have. People still refuse to give up the belief in fairy tales. Religiously fueled ignorance is like war. It'll always be a downside of humanity.
@Kayyyleb We already have what? Found the truth? Far from it. Quantum physics have demonstrated that things/matter energy can behave in ways that defy logic and our present understanding of the natural order of things. I could be the thing we call God is something that has been misinterpreted or yet to be correctly understood. God is a word that comes with Pre Loaded baggage depending on our education. We have a history of bastardizing words and truth.
Matter and energy behaving in ways that defy our current understanding of physics in no way proves a god. Just because an apple doesn't look like an orange doesn't mean it's automatically a banana.
Since the word "god" comes with pre-loaded baggage, don't use it if you don't want your points associated with invisible, mythical beings that created the earth in a week roughly 6000 to 10000 years ago when that has been completely disproven.
@Kayyyleb You are right. It proves nothing more than we don't know. The word God is a real bitch. It is amazing how many versions and interpretations we can have on a single three letter word.
80% of the planet believe in some kind of supernatural force. I thought we were the most intelligent species on the planet. We can't even agree on our fantasy's let alone rise above them.
@Kayyyleb I'll bet the the entire human population a thousand years ago would have said Not gonna happen if you told them. One day we will walk on the moon. We need to stop making absolute claims and be open to the fact that we really don't know as much as we like to think we do. We are going to find out stuff that we never dreamed of.
Religion is an illness that makes people immune to facts. The sooner this disease is wiped out, the better. The only way this can be done effectively and morally is through education. And whadaya know, the extreme right wing in America is doing its best to obliterate public education by defunding it, as well as the NCLB program. Then, once they hamstring education, they stand back and say "See, public education doesn't work. Privatize ALL the things!" Fuck conservatives.
@ltflermy That the American right wing are a bunch of warmongoring retards doesn't alter the fact they're right, the public education system in the US is a major failure. In some other countries its a bit better but ALL such systems today are based on the Prussian method of churning out dumbed-down drones. I'm afraid public schooling is never going to be the answer to anything, except more brain-dead drones. Like the idiot that called in....
@bigglyguy It's a failure in large part, but not solely, because they made it a failure. The right wing for decades has pushed to defund and cripple the education system in the country, and they have succeeded in gradually destroying it. Teachers are underpaid in many cases, overblamed, and underequipped. The union has some blame as well in keeping poor teachers in the system. Public education can, and does, succeed enormously in many western countries.
Christians can't believe in evolution. Evolution changes species by changing entire breeding populations, not by producing single breeding pairs from a previous species. Therefore, if evolution is true, there was no Adam and Eve, the first two people. Without them, there was no original sin, thus no need to be saved as a species, ergo no need for Jesus. Christianity and Judaism fall on their faces if evolution is true. So does Islam with its belief in Jesus' existence as a prophet.
I always love the argument that god designed the incredible eye. Ignoring the fact that the eye is a very poor design (What designer would put a blind spot in an optical instrument?), what about people who are born blind? Is that part of god's incredible design as well?
Ohhh but that's because man brought sin into the world. Before sin, everything was perfect. So there were no faults.. Do u like the classic Christian answer? (Which doesn't provide you with ANY useful information)
NO matter how loud you cry or shout that there is No God. Echo sound will hit you again and again that HE IS. No matter how hard you may try to justify your sins, you can not escape from them. Sinner must pay their account of Sins. You have only two options. Pay by your self or accept that Jesus Christ paid for you. There is no other way to escape. Accept The Gift of Salvation through Jesus Christ or be ready to get punishment for your sins which you have done in your body. I will advise, pleas
Yup the power of indoctrination strong. (I still get scary flashbacks when I see a light flash in the sky, as I think it could be the rapture and I'm going to hell)
@realtyofislam You are so off base about Atheism or you have just encountered someone who isn't really an atheist. It doesn't matter for which faith and or deity a person speaks of. There is no more evidence that Christianity is the true religion over Hinduism or Islam. To me (and most atheists) they are all equally nonsense because neither can validate their purpose and have a burden of proof. I don't become angry when either religions are brought because they mean same to me. Atheism is suspe
Friend, I am not a Muslim. But converted Christian. I left Islam many years ago after found the Truth. Jesus is The Truth. I am not a righteous person. Perhaps most worse sinner of this world. That is why I needed Jesus, because He came on this earth not for righteous but for sinners. True life, joy, peace, hope and salvation of soul is through Him only. Please don't miss this chance, perhaps you may not get chance again to accept Him. Be humble and love every one including your enemy.
Watchmaker argument, which is for some reason hard for them to even say... " If something exists, and or has a use, then it is designed!" In my opinion it kind of does have a design... I mean gravity affects it, our walking, erosion, etc.... but that is not god.
If you talk with an atheist about God of the Bible, their emotions, anger and hate level will always raise higher than talking on sex, murder, crime and even Buddha and Muhammad. Even modern atheists are not agree with Islam, Buddhists and Hindus but still they are polite with and soft discussion on them. But if you would discuss about Jesus and God of the Bible, their reaction becomes completely different. Their words against Jesus and God of the Bible is so hateful and out of their anger is p
I don't know where you live, but it all depends on where you are. An Middle Eastern atheist would likely be very critical of Islam. The only difference is that the Middle Eastern atheist isn't allowed to voice his opinion, while his Western counterpart, who lives in a more secular society, can.
@realtyofislam So you've disregarded all the critique of the stoning of women, circumsission, outcasts in india?
The reason you run into great opposition against xianity is that in the place in the world where you live, that is the dominant religion. The one with the actual power to influence politics and society. There are no words against jesus and god - the anger is directed at the manipulative and dishonest scum, that call them selves true believers.
@realtyofislam This is due to the constant bashing against them, the believe like you or else argument its does cause some Atheist to be too rough housing but its not out of hate they don't hate what they don't believe. Its frustration with those who don't or incapable of understanding it both ways whether then single sided.
If we have samples of Jesus's blood and flesh, that means we could clone Jesus and create an christian theme park, entirely populated with Christ replicas.
Imagine the possibility's, the Jesus instant healing center, The water to winery, the bread and fish restaurant, the resurrectory, John Hammond should get right on that one.
@Ekit357 Yup, they just run back and forth between subjective evidence that proves it for them, like irreducible complexity, and their epistemological position on man's ability to perceive reality. both have back trampled and destroyed a million times.
If a wind picked up in a junk yard and a smelting factory, machining factory, assembly factory, and a watch popped out of the final factory, that would be god.
It is a theory. Just like gravity is not a fact, it's the theory of gravity. These things are built up from observing facts. They provide us with greater information than just "this is true".
Engaging them when they say "it is just a theory" by saying "it is not a theory", is the wrong tactic. Theory's are the most powerful tools we have. Facts are a dime a dozen. But you are correct, it is "proven" in the sense that it has not been proven to fail in its predictions.
@DUMPOFTHEWEEK Actually it is a theory, and science doesn't "prove" anything. But you have to understand, a theory is the highest honor a concept can receive in science.
So..... The guys point in the end was the wine and crackers REALLY DO PHYSICALLY TURN INTO JESUS BODY PARTS!!! This zombie worship is getting way out of hand.
@lion575 A former student and close adviser of the current pope, Vienna Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn, published an article in 2005 that seemed to align the Church with the 'intelligent design' view. The pope in 2007 did support evolution in the book 'Schoepfung unt Evolution' (Creation and Evolution), but with it being a 'creation' of god, and therefore NUTTY!!!
@MitchStarRepublic The Catholic church as a whole supports evolution and has taught it as (the most likely theory) since 1950 under Pope Pius XII. He stated that Evolution is a viable scientific theory and in no way contradicts any of the Catholic Churches teachings. Since that time every Pope has publicly supported evolution as a viable theory, Pope John Paul 2 took it a little further and said it was more than just a theory.
The caller seemed normal in the first part of the video.. as soon as I heard that the priest doubted, I knew that this caller is just an ignorant naive dumbass!
Replacing the watch with an eye only weakens the argument.
For a human eye found on the beach, you'd notice after some inspection that the retina does not sense blue, red, and green light in balanced proportions, that image data must be compressed before sent over the optic nerve, and then there's that darn blind spot.
Octopus eyes don't have a blind spot. Why did the Great Watchmaker favor the lowly cephalopod over his chosen creatures?
Human designed CCDs can overcome all of these problems
If I see a watch on the ground, I would think "Somebody has lost their watch." If I see a human eye on the ground I would think "WTF!!! WHY IS THERE AN EYE ON THE GROUND!!!" I wouldn't think it as Yahweh sending me a sign, I think somebody had been killed at sea and a piece of them has just washed up on the sea.
@matrixpark7 I...I don't think that was how the analogy was...supposed to...never mind, I'm totally bringing that up next time someone mentions Paley's Watchmaker. You are made of win, sir.
If I see an eye lying on the beach, I dont think "wow that must have been designed and built in a nearby eye factory" or "a god must have dropped it from heaven" I think "Fookin ell there must be a bloke wandering around with his eye missing"
I don't like the way they talk to Christians on this show. They talk to them like they're stupid and laugh at them. Atheists don't like Christians talking to them like that yet these people do.
As much as I agree with Matt's viewpoints, he is doing athiests no service by his aggressive approach toward the interviews. The callers do seem hopelessly inept, but Matt needs to control his temper when talking to them because in the end it will help his credibility. (Especially when he claims that Christians are divisive against athiests due to their belief in their own superiority)
I'm not saying he should be passive. He should be assertive and after watching more of his videos I can tell you even he acknowledges that it can be difficult to be patient with these callers. Frankly I don't blame him I'd probably be even worse, and I suppose my first post was kind of harsh.
@Stonefallow IMO I think MD was being rightly assertive and not aggressive with the caller at all. Aggression presumes violence or a perceived threat of violence, and this is not the case. He explained himself well, and clearly, and has prob heard these arguments 1000 times before. Impatient? Possibly, but If someone comes up with a feeble argument they will be called up on it.
Romans 9:22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?
@CBALLEN These 2 verses in Romans show us that God has let some go their own way to Hell to be an example to those that He has saved.He will show all believers how bad sin actually was and what they have been actually saved from , He saved us by His own blood.Sin is deadly to all unless God saves them.
We all hate God without cause and we all rebel against Him,none are righteous and we all choose Hell.But God loved His people so much that He came down as a sinless man and took terrible punishment and death to satisfy His own justice.Jesus died for specific individuals on the cross,He did not die to make all men "savable" if they would cooperate,He actually saved all those that He elected to save when He said "it is finished".So if one cries out to God it's because He has regenerated them first
@danutcase66 Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.Many people in church try to make this say "as many as believe were appointed to eternal life"but as you can see by the sentence structure it says the opposite.Even though God has decided who to save and who to leave in their sin still makes no difference since all men are on death row for both inherited sin and their own sin.
@danut Probably 99% of the Gentiles went to Hell in the OT .God is not trying but failing to save everyone either.God has decided before time who He would save by His own will.In the old testament times the Jews who looked forward to the Messiah's coming were saved by their faith in Him,of course like everyone,this faith had to be granted by God.Jesus unveiled the mystery in John 6:44 No one can come to me(believe) unless the Father who sent me draws him and I will raise him up at the last day.
Do hurricanes use a plan?Yes,the elements must be conducive before a hurricane exists,the whether happens because of the fine tuning in our universe that was Created..
Plants have DNA already in them and their seeds,they have pollen that fertilizes the plants to cause the seeds to be fertile,the seeds have DNA ,plans 4 the plant..
People also have DNA an egg and sperm that sets it all in motion.Everything that has a beginning has a cause,the universe began to exist, therefore it had a beginner.
So, do you have evidence of a creator? You make the claim that the weather is a result from fine tuning that was created, but you STILL do not demonstrate any compelling evidence of this creator being.
What is your evidence that "DNA" was created by a god?
What is your evidence that everything that has a beginning has a cause?
What is your evidence that the universe began to exist, therefore it had a beginner?
@BastEternal "What is your evidence that everything that has a beginning has a cause? What is your evidence that the universe began to exist, therefore it had a beginner?"
These two are known by science to be true and the information theory proves DNA comes from intelligent life.
Known by science to be true? Science says no such thing. Science does NOT claim that everything that has a beginning has a cause, nor that the universe must have had a beginner. You are referring to creationism, NOT science.
Since you insist on making stuff up, I simply do not want to even talk to you because of that.
@CBALLEN "information theory proves DNA comes from intelligent life."
Really? Does the awesome power of God to both design and interpret the DNA prove that he came from intelligent life? If not, how could your statement possibly be correct, given that God would have to embody all aspects of what could be studied by information theory in the end-product.
@Gnomefro God by definition is immutable,eternal,supernatural,& therefore He is not part of the creation,He transcends it.If you want to believe everything natural came from nothing,by nothing,then may I say,You are just hoping against hope,logic,physics and plain ole common sense.The Atheist cannot logically follow the evidence and really believe it came from absolutely nothing,it takes a spiritually insane person to hold to this view.
@CBALLEN You can't claim insanity upon me if you have no reason to justify that claim. I have spoken no words to you regarding belief so why even use the word "spiritual"? Exactly the reason you are insane.
@SirShakeJunt 1 Cor 2:14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.God must impart His spirit to a person before they are able to believe & saved.God is the one who decides who He grants belief and repentance to,He does not do this for us as the motivating factor,but to Glorify Himself.
@CBALLEN Nice Bible quote asshole. Find that one all by yourself did you? Surely the quote you just repeated is sufficient evidence to justify your religion...
@SirShakeJunt Hey,your problem's with God not me.You are like everyone else,you love your sin more than God,but it's your sin that will send you to Hell if God does not forgive you and the only way for this to happen is either by reading the scriptures in the Bible or hear it being preached.God has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save His unregenerated sheep.
@mentalphysicalism From man's perspective he turns to Christ in belief or he doesn't,but from God's perspective God has already chosen who He will save before time and He imparts His Holy Spirit to His elect through the preaching of the gospel,while at the same time the Gospel preached to those that He chose not to save, will repelled them even further.When His word goes out,it always accomplishes what it was sent for.
@CBALLEN You for some reason believe that the cosmos was created but don't believe
that your creator was created. I don't think that the cosmos was created at all but rather
has always existed just like your creator(super mind) has always existed. You however
believe that your creator created the cosmos by magic for no reason after taking an eternity to figure out that he needed to create the cosmos. Where is your god's brain?
@mentalphysicalism My Creator is not part of the Cosmos,he created the cosmos.If you make a clay model of something are you controlled by your model?Is the computer's creator bound by the laws inside the computer?If the 1s &0s got together and said"The computer definitely made itself because we can't find it's creator no where".
@Sir Isaiah 55:11 so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.
Do you understand this verse? It means not only is God's word used to bring in the sheep when salvation through Jesus is preached,it also repels the lost even further through the same message,it never leaves one neutral.There"s still hope tho because 1 plants,& 1 waters but God gives the increase.
@SirShakeJunt Matt. 13:11Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.Matthew 13:14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
Mark 4:12 so that, "'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'"
God has created everything that exists in out universe .He makes all things with purpose & with much complexity ,information is needed before anything is created and .All information comes from intelligence, all intelligence is traced back to Life.Since nothing in the universe could create information,matter or energy,the source of all creation came from a Creator that exists outside of His creation and is greater than His creation.God is eternal Spirit,life,and intelligence.
@CBALLEN Wow, you've made a lot of claims there..got anything to back it up? Like proof that anyone can confirm and verify, that doesn't rely on "feelings," reading a book, or something that is 100% indistinguishable from delusions, hallucinations, or hearing voices?
But if you are suggesting that my brain is proof of a deity, then scientists should be able to dissect the brain and discover this information. There should be plenty of peer reviewed articles discussing this monumental, earth shattering discovery that the brain proves god exists.
If you could just forward me some links with the peer reviewed articles, I would be much obliged, thanks!
@BastEternal Your brain has nothing to do with DNA being information created by God.Your brain should be used to understand that nothing can exist before the plans or information exists.Have you ever seen or do you know of anything as complex as a cell created without a plan?
What is your evidence that "DNA" was created by a god? Last I checked, my DNA came from my parents, their's came from their parents, ad nauseum. As far as the FIRST DNA strain, the "original," so to speak, no one knows. There is no reason to jump to the conclusion that "god did it."
It's actually more reasonable to conclude it came by naturally, just like everything else.
"Have you ever seen or do you know of anything as complex as a cell created without a plan?"
I've never heard of ANYTHING that occurs naturally using a man-made construct such as a "plan" to do so.
You will have to demonstrate that a "plan" is required for things that occur naturally.
We know that "plans" as defined by human beings are required for things that occur by OUR hand, but it would be foolish to make the assumption that the universe or nature works like we do.
If a polinesian found that watch, he would probably thinking it was some kind of weird rock. There have been cases of Poinesians thinking that airplanes are birds and the bombs falling from those planes are eggs.
saguhh00 25 minutes ago
I do agree with everything these guys say, but they are unreasonably arrogant. Cutting that guy off was just rude--even interrupting him would have been enough. Sometimes that main host just has a glint in his eye that says "The only reason I'm here is to talk down to people"
chuffedascheese 23 hours ago
When you see the eye on the beach, you know it is of a replicant because there is a vendor of replicant eyeballs a quarter mile down the beach. And because finding a replicant eyeball on the beach would be really, really cool. And finding a human eyeball would be disgusting.
greyeyed123 1 day ago
But what if on the back of the found watch it says "Made by God". Now what, atheists?!!! PS- Tracie is teh hawt.
utubepunk 2 days ago
@utubepunk You still have to figure out what this "God" is. And it still doesn't prove of a divine creature because a human could have wrote that.
darkchibicosmos 1 day ago
@darkchibicosmos
Methinks he was joking.
Dewkeeper 20 hours ago
@darkchibicosmos What if the watch says "Made by God, Father of Jesus". Check-F'ing-mate, atheists!
Guess I should have included a sarcasm tag on my original post as it was done tongue-in-cheek. Except the comment about Tracie- she's definitely hot. Call me, Tracie!
utubepunk 16 hours ago
"Buildings and watches don't (occur naturally)." Watches are actually magic. Sorry, watches *do* occur naturally on this planet, I had one in the nineties when they were fashionable. They come about by the same biological principles as everything else. Human psychology was needed to create the watch, human psychology, watchmaking for example, is a behavior that evolved based on mechanical principles. People in fact, are actually robots, none of us has any agency whatsoever. PROBLEMATIC.
bvolsky 2 days ago
It's almost impossible to change a belief. At the psychological level these people who call to argue the point of whether or not there is a "god", as defined in christian dogma, are most likely unaware that they most likely don't believe it themselves. If you truly believe you need not defend your position.
godbluffvdgg 2 days ago
Religious people have no idea how amazingly moronic they sound when they attempt to justify their "faith" to those of us who do not have it.
FlyingPinkUnicorn 5 days ago
OK, if their is an eye laying on the ground. CALL THE POLICE!!!!!!
xdassinx 5 days ago
Not one of Matt's best responses, I'd say, but evidently he spoke to the topic earlier in the show.
The caller was probably heading in the eye-too-complex-to-evolve direction. Darwin himself, in the "Origin," specifically brought up the eye (and its complexity) as a potential negation of his theory. (There's a scientist: making the *opposite* case as best he can.) But Darwin, even with the data available in 1859, showed that all the stages in an eye's evolution occur *now* in various creatures.
lease2coach1 1 week ago
I cant wait till science proves the existence of God.
shimwah 1 week ago
@shimwah Don't hold your breath. No scientist will ever attempt to prove negatives because to do so would not be scientific. Theories start with empirical observations (facts) and science seeks to establish pathways to bolster theory. Supernatural belief of any kind, including gods, will never rise to theoretical states because no observations can be made. Now, here is a bit of personal belief which is also very, very, very likely true: ALL gods are MYTH! Prove otherwise.
detroitboy65 1 week ago
@detroitboy65 'Supernatural belief of any kind, including gods, will never rise to theoretical states because no observations can be made'.
Just because we don't have methods for observing things now does not mean we never will. There was a time when Auras were questionable now you can take a photograph of it. No doubt science will take much of what we now call pseudoscience & prove it as fact. It is possible today's religious definitions or interpretations of God are wrong.
shimwah 1 week ago
@shimwah "Auras" are nothing more than weak emissions of radiation that are quite natural in all living and non-living matter. There may even be something in the idea that auras can indicate changes in health. None of this means that there is anything supernatural or paranormal about auras. The Human body is an electrical machine and contains enough potential to light a 100w bulb. No miracle. To believe in supernatural phenomena is the height of illogical pursuit.
detroitboy65 1 week ago
@detroitboy65 The analogy was not to show auras as a supernatural phenomena. It was to demonstrate that what we once called bullshit or supernatural phenomena is now known as a natural part of a living creature or matter. We learn we grow. What we now call a creator or God also may one day be demonstrated as a natural part of our understanding of the universe.
shimwah 1 week ago
@shimwah
Once photography is developed that can take pictures of God, I'll believe he exists. Until then, believing in a God out of faith is foolish and there is no good reason to do so.
By the way there's very little scientific evidence relating to auras. I consider it plausible that our bodies generate some kind of energy field. The brain and nervous system use electricity after all. That in no way is evidence for any of the supernatural mystical bullshit associated with the concept.
Kayyyleb 1 week ago
@Kayyyleb We still have a lot to learn. And in time we will learn. And we may be surprised to find some of what we now call whoo becomes accepted fact. Then again we may not. At least science can admit it is wrong when given verifiable evidence. Religion does not. It claims absolutes.
I agree with you. Until the proof is there we need to deal with our known reality
shimwah 1 week ago
@shimwah what god what if they say the Hinduism is the correct religion, or Norse myth therefore making Christian belief obsolete. Lets not forget people usually focus on Christian/Islamic/Jewish religion without realizing you all may believe in utter crap.
MsOneiroi77 1 week ago
@MsOneiroi77 in fact what if these so called advanced scientific techniques prove god(s) dont exist? What then some people will still run on blind faith.
MsOneiroi77 1 week ago
@MsOneiroi77 What we believe is all utter crap. I agree. There are so many truths and beliefs because individuals interpretations of truth are different. Shit there are thousands of versions of Christianity alone who disagree on the same teachings in the bible The truth remains the truth regardless of belief.
shimwah 1 week ago
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@shimwah yes I agree with you there are so many sects of Christianity (as well as other religions) and they all think their interpretation is the truth while condoning other people who follow the same religion. For instance baptists think they're the only ones to be saved the WBC think everyone's going to hell except their rather bizarre little church. The truth remains the truth regardless of belief but must have evidence to be the truth. Religion is just second guessing at best.
MsOneiroi77 1 week ago
@shimwah
There are in fact millions of different versions of every religion because no one follows it the same way. And truth does not remain truth when it was never proven to be truth in the first place. You just tried to chastise me for making "absolute" statements then you turn around and not only do exactly that, but also base it entirely off of faith and call it truth.
Oh please.
Kayyyleb 1 week ago
@Kayyyleb Um it seems you are missing my whole point. Truth IS absolute. That is why it is truth. As a definition it is defined as, a verified or undisputed fact. Chastising you? We see a history of mankind making absolute claims and calling it truth when in fact it was not. We are no different today. Our ancestors did not consider walking on the moon to be possible but yes we have now walked on the moon. Once a fantasy now a reality. Understand?
shimwah 1 week ago
@Kayyyleb Just so you do understand where I'm coming from. I am not religious nor do I use faith beliefs or hope to live my life. I make no absolute claims and fail to see where I have done so in my posts. I do expect we will one day find an answer for the existence of God. I look forward to this day and the end of all the bullshit bickering and endless debating on who has the truth. Imagine!!
shimwah 1 week ago
@shimwah
We already have. People still refuse to give up the belief in fairy tales. Religiously fueled ignorance is like war. It'll always be a downside of humanity.
Kayyyleb 1 week ago
@Kayyyleb We already have what? Found the truth? Far from it. Quantum physics have demonstrated that things/matter energy can behave in ways that defy logic and our present understanding of the natural order of things. I could be the thing we call God is something that has been misinterpreted or yet to be correctly understood. God is a word that comes with Pre Loaded baggage depending on our education. We have a history of bastardizing words and truth.
shimwah 1 week ago
@shimwah
Matter and energy behaving in ways that defy our current understanding of physics in no way proves a god. Just because an apple doesn't look like an orange doesn't mean it's automatically a banana.
Since the word "god" comes with pre-loaded baggage, don't use it if you don't want your points associated with invisible, mythical beings that created the earth in a week roughly 6000 to 10000 years ago when that has been completely disproven.
Kayyyleb 6 days ago
@Kayyyleb You are right. It proves nothing more than we don't know. The word God is a real bitch. It is amazing how many versions and interpretations we can have on a single three letter word.
80% of the planet believe in some kind of supernatural force. I thought we were the most intelligent species on the planet. We can't even agree on our fantasy's let alone rise above them.
shimwah 6 days ago
@shimwah
Not gonna happen.
Kayyyleb 1 week ago
@Kayyyleb I'll bet the the entire human population a thousand years ago would have said Not gonna happen if you told them. One day we will walk on the moon. We need to stop making absolute claims and be open to the fact that we really don't know as much as we like to think we do. We are going to find out stuff that we never dreamed of.
shimwah 1 week ago
@shimwah
We have walked on the moon. If you're trying to make a point, try a little harder.
Kayyyleb 1 week ago
@Kayyyleb arent you relying on science a little "too much"?
satanspilz 1 week ago
@satanspilz
I see you're joking lol. But if that were a crime then i'll gladly be guilty.
Kayyyleb 1 week ago
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I really admire Matt's patience.
daverowbotham 1 week ago
I will now steal the foreskin joke and overuse the shit out of it to piss all my friends off
wheresnajee 1 week ago
Religion is an illness that makes people immune to facts. The sooner this disease is wiped out, the better. The only way this can be done effectively and morally is through education. And whadaya know, the extreme right wing in America is doing its best to obliterate public education by defunding it, as well as the NCLB program. Then, once they hamstring education, they stand back and say "See, public education doesn't work. Privatize ALL the things!" Fuck conservatives.
ltflermy 1 week ago
@ltflermy That the American right wing are a bunch of warmongoring retards doesn't alter the fact they're right, the public education system in the US is a major failure. In some other countries its a bit better but ALL such systems today are based on the Prussian method of churning out dumbed-down drones. I'm afraid public schooling is never going to be the answer to anything, except more brain-dead drones. Like the idiot that called in....
bigglyguy 1 week ago
@bigglyguy It's a failure in large part, but not solely, because they made it a failure. The right wing for decades has pushed to defund and cripple the education system in the country, and they have succeeded in gradually destroying it. Teachers are underpaid in many cases, overblamed, and underequipped. The union has some blame as well in keeping poor teachers in the system. Public education can, and does, succeed enormously in many western countries.
ltflermy 1 week ago
Christians can't believe in evolution. Evolution changes species by changing entire breeding populations, not by producing single breeding pairs from a previous species. Therefore, if evolution is true, there was no Adam and Eve, the first two people. Without them, there was no original sin, thus no need to be saved as a species, ergo no need for Jesus. Christianity and Judaism fall on their faces if evolution is true. So does Islam with its belief in Jesus' existence as a prophet.
ChipArgyle 2 weeks ago
These people that call in say the same things over and over again...and it gets disproven over and over again.
Flipper79able 2 weeks ago 3
this caller MUST be a poe. wtf, is he really serious? stfu, making me rage.
truckcompany 2 weeks ago
I always love the argument that god designed the incredible eye. Ignoring the fact that the eye is a very poor design (What designer would put a blind spot in an optical instrument?), what about people who are born blind? Is that part of god's incredible design as well?
ghostframer 2 weeks ago
@ghostframer
"what about people who are born blind?"
Ohhh but that's because man brought sin into the world. Before sin, everything was perfect. So there were no faults.. Do u like the classic Christian answer? (Which doesn't provide you with ANY useful information)
truckcompany 2 weeks ago
NO matter how loud you cry or shout that there is No God. Echo sound will hit you again and again that HE IS. No matter how hard you may try to justify your sins, you can not escape from them. Sinner must pay their account of Sins. You have only two options. Pay by your self or accept that Jesus Christ paid for you. There is no other way to escape. Accept The Gift of Salvation through Jesus Christ or be ready to get punishment for your sins which you have done in your body. I will advise, pleas
samaroo96 2 weeks ago
@samaroo96 ohhhh kay.
TheCycadsAreAudible 1 week ago
silly caller ....brains aren't for Catholics
funcpl2741054 3 weeks ago 3
The power of religious indoctrination...
enyskept 4 weeks ago
@enyskept
Yup the power of indoctrination strong. (I still get scary flashbacks when I see a light flash in the sky, as I think it could be the rapture and I'm going to hell)
truckcompany 2 weeks ago
@realtyofislam You are so off base about Atheism or you have just encountered someone who isn't really an atheist. It doesn't matter for which faith and or deity a person speaks of. There is no more evidence that Christianity is the true religion over Hinduism or Islam. To me (and most atheists) they are all equally nonsense because neither can validate their purpose and have a burden of proof. I don't become angry when either religions are brought because they mean same to me. Atheism is suspe
jdale1 4 weeks ago
Friend, I am not a Muslim. But converted Christian. I left Islam many years ago after found the Truth. Jesus is The Truth. I am not a righteous person. Perhaps most worse sinner of this world. That is why I needed Jesus, because He came on this earth not for righteous but for sinners. True life, joy, peace, hope and salvation of soul is through Him only. Please don't miss this chance, perhaps you may not get chance again to accept Him. Be humble and love every one including your enemy.
realtyofislam 4 weeks ago
@realtyofislam wow, you traded one mental illness for another.
Shofoxy 3 weeks ago
@realtyofislam If the illusion of christianity and jesus keeps you sane, keeps you from doing bad things, then please, pray hard.
guyfromdubai 3 weeks ago
Watchmaker argument, which is for some reason hard for them to even say... " If something exists, and or has a use, then it is designed!" In my opinion it kind of does have a design... I mean gravity affects it, our walking, erosion, etc.... but that is not god.
TheAtheistProphet1 4 weeks ago
You could tell when he started talking about a creek that matts face was going, " Please please PLEASE do not do this watchmaker shit again!"
TheAtheistProphet1 4 weeks ago
If you talk with an atheist about God of the Bible, their emotions, anger and hate level will always raise higher than talking on sex, murder, crime and even Buddha and Muhammad. Even modern atheists are not agree with Islam, Buddhists and Hindus but still they are polite with and soft discussion on them. But if you would discuss about Jesus and God of the Bible, their reaction becomes completely different. Their words against Jesus and God of the Bible is so hateful and out of their anger is p
realtyofislam 1 month ago
@realtyofislam
I don't know where you live, but it all depends on where you are. An Middle Eastern atheist would likely be very critical of Islam. The only difference is that the Middle Eastern atheist isn't allowed to voice his opinion, while his Western counterpart, who lives in a more secular society, can.
pateroon 4 weeks ago
@realtyofislam So you've disregarded all the critique of the stoning of women, circumsission, outcasts in india?
The reason you run into great opposition against xianity is that in the place in the world where you live, that is the dominant religion. The one with the actual power to influence politics and society. There are no words against jesus and god - the anger is directed at the manipulative and dishonest scum, that call them selves true believers.
tristbjorn 3 weeks ago
@realtyofislam This is due to the constant bashing against them, the believe like you or else argument its does cause some Atheist to be too rough housing but its not out of hate they don't hate what they don't believe. Its frustration with those who don't or incapable of understanding it both ways whether then single sided.
rainbowbowserpow9999 2 weeks ago
Here's the refutation of the watchmaker argument: Humans are not watches, and they are not really like watches.
blackmichael75 1 month ago
The very fact that you have to place an artificial object in a natural setting shows how specious - at best - the analogy is.
dmiller185 1 month ago
If we have samples of Jesus's blood and flesh, that means we could clone Jesus and create an christian theme park, entirely populated with Christ replicas.
Imagine the possibility's, the Jesus instant healing center, The water to winery, the bread and fish restaurant, the resurrectory, John Hammond should get right on that one.
AndyCielecki 1 month ago 2
Oh dear. So dumb, it hurts.
FantasmaBAnco 1 month ago
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"Aren't we relying on science too much?"
Three minutes later
"It is scientificly proven..."
Ekit357 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"Aren't we relying on science too much?"
Three minutes later
"It is scientificly proven..."
Ekit357 1 month ago
"Aren't we relying on science too much?"
(Three minutes later)
"It is scientificly proven..."
Ekit357 1 month ago 51
@Ekit357 Yup, they just run back and forth between subjective evidence that proves it for them, like irreducible complexity, and their epistemological position on man's ability to perceive reality. both have back trampled and destroyed a million times.
SoCalAries 2 weeks ago
If a wind picked up in a junk yard and a smelting factory, machining factory, assembly factory, and a watch popped out of the final factory, that would be god.
therealjammit 1 month ago
Yes, why not throw in the foreskin joke for everyone to enjoy
Icalur 1 month ago 21
@Icalur Is it me, or does the Eucharist taste a little chewy today?
therealjammit 1 month ago
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Icalur 1 month ago
Evolution is not a theory... it has been proven, read a fucking book.
DUMPOFTHEWEEK 1 month ago
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ehandkz 1 month ago
@DUMPOFTHEWEEK
It is a theory. Just like gravity is not a fact, it's the theory of gravity. These things are built up from observing facts. They provide us with greater information than just "this is true".
Engaging them when they say "it is just a theory" by saying "it is not a theory", is the wrong tactic. Theory's are the most powerful tools we have. Facts are a dime a dozen. But you are correct, it is "proven" in the sense that it has not been proven to fail in its predictions.
Cyllid 1 month ago
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@DUMPOFTHEWEEK Actually it is a theory, and science doesn't "prove" anything. But you have to understand, a theory is the highest honor a concept can receive in science.
ehandkz 1 month ago
Um, no. God didn't create watches along with trees and sand. And trees don't equal watches sir.
ChristianKid99 1 month ago
@ChristianKid99 God didn't create anything, so you are quite right.
TheIncognitusMe 1 month ago
@ChristianKid99 It's like you don't understand metaphors.
Cyllid 1 month ago
So..... The guys point in the end was the wine and crackers REALLY DO PHYSICALLY TURN INTO JESUS BODY PARTS!!! This zombie worship is getting way out of hand.
MitchStarRepublic 1 month ago
I have noticed that when Christians say "bless you" they are generally being condescending and really mean "fuck you" *cough* supergloven *cough*
KaHabbful 1 month ago
Apparently this guy (the host of the show) doesn't know to much about the current Pope.
lion575 1 month ago
@lion575 A former student and close adviser of the current pope, Vienna Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn, published an article in 2005 that seemed to align the Church with the 'intelligent design' view. The pope in 2007 did support evolution in the book 'Schoepfung unt Evolution' (Creation and Evolution), but with it being a 'creation' of god, and therefore NUTTY!!!
MitchStarRepublic 1 month ago
@MitchStarRepublic The Catholic church as a whole supports evolution and has taught it as (the most likely theory) since 1950 under Pope Pius XII. He stated that Evolution is a viable scientific theory and in no way contradicts any of the Catholic Churches teachings. Since that time every Pope has publicly supported evolution as a viable theory, Pope John Paul 2 took it a little further and said it was more than just a theory.
lion575 1 month ago
The caller seemed normal in the first part of the video.. as soon as I heard that the priest doubted, I knew that this caller is just an ignorant naive dumbass!
ajosep12 1 month ago
This caller should see a shrink....delusions!
spareaxe 1 month ago
Replacing the watch with an eye only weakens the argument.
For a human eye found on the beach, you'd notice after some inspection that the retina does not sense blue, red, and green light in balanced proportions, that image data must be compressed before sent over the optic nerve, and then there's that darn blind spot.
Octopus eyes don't have a blind spot. Why did the Great Watchmaker favor the lowly cephalopod over his chosen creatures?
Human designed CCDs can overcome all of these problems
CasualTS 1 month ago
If I see a watch on the ground, I would think "Somebody has lost their watch." If I see a human eye on the ground I would think "WTF!!! WHY IS THERE AN EYE ON THE GROUND!!!" I wouldn't think it as Yahweh sending me a sign, I think somebody had been killed at sea and a piece of them has just washed up on the sea.
matrixpark7 1 month ago
@matrixpark7 I...I don't think that was how the analogy was...supposed to...never mind, I'm totally bringing that up next time someone mentions Paley's Watchmaker. You are made of win, sir.
YaleBreaker 1 month ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Evolution doesn't exist. God exists.
supergloven 1 month ago
@supergloven troll.
tacticaloperator12 1 month ago
@tacticaloperator12 God bless you!
supergloven 1 month ago
@supergloven I don't need a bless you I just need to sneeze.
tacticaloperator12 1 month ago
@tacticaloperator12 Still, God bless you.
supergloven 1 month ago
@supergloven spoken like a true sheep.
rjgib1016 1 month ago
@rjgib1016 God bless you!
supergloven 1 month ago
@supergloven thank you! I feel better already!
rjgib1016 1 month ago
@rjgib1016 You bet!
supergloven 1 month ago
@supergloven what a bunch of sheep on here. Too funny.
rjgib1016 1 month ago
@rjgib1016 Hate is easy. Love takes courage. God bless, nonetheless!!! :)
supergloven 1 month ago
@supergloven Why am I hating?
I never said I hated anyone. I might find you ridiculous, but I don't hate you.
Thanks for the poetry. Enjoy being a cliche.
rjgib1016 1 month ago
If I see an eye lying on the beach, I dont think "wow that must have been designed and built in a nearby eye factory" or "a god must have dropped it from heaven" I think "Fookin ell there must be a bloke wandering around with his eye missing"
rossini55 1 month ago
@rossini55 Me: "Holy shit!! that must have hurt like a bitch!!"
iTrollThis 1 month ago
this argument makes me think of a movie, the Gods must be crazy :P Every time I hear this argument I think of the Bushman and the Coke bottle
vampyres32 1 month ago
I don't like the way they talk to Christians on this show. They talk to them like they're stupid and laugh at them. Atheists don't like Christians talking to them like that yet these people do.
ATLMastering 1 month ago
@ATLMastering They are stupid.
Fortune2point0 1 month ago
@ATLMastering
If a person is stupid, then it seems reasonable to treat them as such.
JonathanTheAlchemist 1 month ago
@ATLMastering
As much as I agree with Matt's viewpoints, he is doing athiests no service by his aggressive approach toward the interviews. The callers do seem hopelessly inept, but Matt needs to control his temper when talking to them because in the end it will help his credibility. (Especially when he claims that Christians are divisive against athiests due to their belief in their own superiority)
Stonefallow 1 month ago
@Stonefallow I disagree, he is doing a GREAT service to atheism by the strength of his arguments. If he was passive it wouldnt work
rossini55 1 month ago
@rossini55
I'm not saying he should be passive. He should be assertive and after watching more of his videos I can tell you even he acknowledges that it can be difficult to be patient with these callers. Frankly I don't blame him I'd probably be even worse, and I suppose my first post was kind of harsh.
Stonefallow 1 month ago
@Stonefallow IMO I think MD was being rightly assertive and not aggressive with the caller at all. Aggression presumes violence or a perceived threat of violence, and this is not the case. He explained himself well, and clearly, and has prob heard these arguments 1000 times before. Impatient? Possibly, but If someone comes up with a feeble argument they will be called up on it.
rossini55 1 month ago
@Stonefallow Take a look at Matt's deconstruction of the Sermon on the Mount. He doesn't agree with "turn the other cheek".
His aggression aside (and I probably wouldn't be as aggressive as him, sure), he is extremely well-spoken.
YaleBreaker 1 month ago
i know a better way DMT ftw lmfao
Pkilla1029 1 month ago
Eyeballs and watches. You know, they're the same things to Christians.
werebee 1 month ago
@werebee Really funny. :)
saristaa1 1 month ago
Romans 9:22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN These 2 verses in Romans show us that God has let some go their own way to Hell to be an example to those that He has saved.He will show all believers how bad sin actually was and what they have been actually saved from , He saved us by His own blood.Sin is deadly to all unless God saves them.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
We all hate God without cause and we all rebel against Him,none are righteous and we all choose Hell.But God loved His people so much that He came down as a sinless man and took terrible punishment and death to satisfy His own justice.Jesus died for specific individuals on the cross,He did not die to make all men "savable" if they would cooperate,He actually saved all those that He elected to save when He said "it is finished".So if one cries out to God it's because He has regenerated them first
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@danutcase66 Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.Many people in church try to make this say "as many as believe were appointed to eternal life"but as you can see by the sentence structure it says the opposite.Even though God has decided who to save and who to leave in their sin still makes no difference since all men are on death row for both inherited sin and their own sin.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@danut Probably 99% of the Gentiles went to Hell in the OT .God is not trying but failing to save everyone either.God has decided before time who He would save by His own will.In the old testament times the Jews who looked forward to the Messiah's coming were saved by their faith in Him,of course like everyone,this faith had to be granted by God.Jesus unveiled the mystery in John 6:44 No one can come to me(believe) unless the Father who sent me draws him and I will raise him up at the last day.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
Was the caller even listening to what the host was saying???? Obviously not. He must have a short attention span or was just unable to comprehend.
AK33M 1 month ago
@Rookerfy0 Well, if hell has internet, it's probably not that bad!
tsilavivrus 1 month ago
Do hurricanes use a plan?Yes,the elements must be conducive before a hurricane exists,the whether happens because of the fine tuning in our universe that was Created..
Plants have DNA already in them and their seeds,they have pollen that fertilizes the plants to cause the seeds to be fertile,the seeds have DNA ,plans 4 the plant..
People also have DNA an egg and sperm that sets it all in motion.Everything that has a beginning has a cause,the universe began to exist, therefore it had a beginner.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN
So, do you have evidence of a creator? You make the claim that the weather is a result from fine tuning that was created, but you STILL do not demonstrate any compelling evidence of this creator being.
What is your evidence that "DNA" was created by a god?
What is your evidence that everything that has a beginning has a cause?
What is your evidence that the universe began to exist, therefore it had a beginner?
BastEternal 1 month ago
@BastEternal "What is your evidence that everything that has a beginning has a cause? What is your evidence that the universe began to exist, therefore it had a beginner?"
These two are known by science to be true and the information theory proves DNA comes from intelligent life.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN
Known by science to be true? Science says no such thing. Science does NOT claim that everything that has a beginning has a cause, nor that the universe must have had a beginner. You are referring to creationism, NOT science.
Since you insist on making stuff up, I simply do not want to even talk to you because of that.
BastEternal 1 month ago
@CBALLEN "information theory proves DNA comes from intelligent life."
Really? Does the awesome power of God to both design and interpret the DNA prove that he came from intelligent life? If not, how could your statement possibly be correct, given that God would have to embody all aspects of what could be studied by information theory in the end-product.
Gnomefro 1 month ago
@Gnomefro God by definition is immutable,eternal,supernatural,& therefore He is not part of the creation,He transcends it.If you want to believe everything natural came from nothing,by nothing,then may I say,You are just hoping against hope,logic,physics and plain ole common sense.The Atheist cannot logically follow the evidence and really believe it came from absolutely nothing,it takes a spiritually insane person to hold to this view.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN You Sir, are an insane bigot.
SirShakeJunt 1 month ago
@SirShakeJunt I'm sorry,you're the spiritually insane person.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN You can't claim insanity upon me if you have no reason to justify that claim. I have spoken no words to you regarding belief so why even use the word "spiritual"? Exactly the reason you are insane.
SirShakeJunt 1 month ago
@CBALLEN By the way, I just took a massive dump. It's not relevant to the conversation at all but I just thought I would let you know. Good day Sir.
SirShakeJunt 1 month ago
@SirShakeJunt 1 Cor 2:14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.God must impart His spirit to a person before they are able to believe & saved.God is the one who decides who He grants belief and repentance to,He does not do this for us as the motivating factor,but to Glorify Himself.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN Nice Bible quote asshole. Find that one all by yourself did you? Surely the quote you just repeated is sufficient evidence to justify your religion...
SirShakeJunt 1 month ago
@SirShakeJunt Hey,your problem's with God not me.You are like everyone else,you love your sin more than God,but it's your sin that will send you to Hell if God does not forgive you and the only way for this to happen is either by reading the scriptures in the Bible or hear it being preached.God has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save His unregenerated sheep.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN You are your god. Why can't your god do anything for
himself that he always needs a person to represent him? If your god
can do one thing without you, you should stand out of his way and let
him do his job.
mentalphysicalism 1 month ago
@mentalphysicalism He doesn't need anything He has ordained the means as well as the ends.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN He doesn't have any needs which is why he doesn't do anything.
You can't recognize your own needs and think they are god.
mentalphysicalism 1 month ago
@mentalphysicalism From man's perspective he turns to Christ in belief or he doesn't,but from God's perspective God has already chosen who He will save before time and He imparts His Holy Spirit to His elect through the preaching of the gospel,while at the same time the Gospel preached to those that He chose not to save, will repelled them even further.When His word goes out,it always accomplishes what it was sent for.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN You live in a strange world.
mentalphysicalism 1 month ago
@mentalphysicalism It used to be much stranger when I was deaf and blind.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN You are right, you are now hearing and seeing things. :)
mentalphysicalism 1 month ago
@mentalphysicalism I was once spiritually insane now I'm not.Reality is a nice place to be,now I know that magic didn't create us,but a creator did.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN You for some reason believe that the cosmos was created but don't believe
that your creator was created. I don't think that the cosmos was created at all but rather
has always existed just like your creator(super mind) has always existed. You however
believe that your creator created the cosmos by magic for no reason after taking an eternity to figure out that he needed to create the cosmos. Where is your god's brain?
mentalphysicalism 1 month ago
@mentalphysicalism My Creator is not part of the Cosmos,he created the cosmos.If you make a clay model of something are you controlled by your model?Is the computer's creator bound by the laws inside the computer?If the 1s &0s got together and said"The computer definitely made itself because we can't find it's creator no where".
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN It is obvious to you that a computer is not natural which is why
you know that it is man made. Computers are rearrangement of existing material
which is not creating material out of nothing like in your creation idea. Your god is
very anthropomorphic so why can't you see yourself? How does the immaterial interact
with material?
mentalphysicalism 1 month ago
@mentalphysicalism Don't argue with religious people, it won't change their opinions and it's just a waste of your time.
werebee 1 month ago
@werebee I like to practice verbalizing reasons for why I believe what I
believe as I am fully aware that tribal group bonds can not be overridden
by argumentation. Religious people simply ignore contradictions.
mentalphysicalism 1 month ago
@werebee so true, but they want everyone else to believe their fairy tales too...
ba252504 1 month ago
@CBALLEN Why did god wait until the 4th day to create days? Why does the first
chapter of Matthew say the Joseph is the father of Jesus? Why did the writers of the
old testatment not know that god was a trinity? How did the freshwater and saltwater
fish survive the flood? Why did god kill all the animals on the earth except the ones on
the ark?
mentalphysicalism 1 month ago
@Sir Isaiah 55:11 so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.
Do you understand this verse? It means not only is God's word used to bring in the sheep when salvation through Jesus is preached,it also repels the lost even further through the same message,it never leaves one neutral.There"s still hope tho because 1 plants,& 1 waters but God gives the increase.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN Right...
SirShakeJunt 1 month ago
@SirShakeJunt God Bless.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN No thank you.
SirShakeJunt 1 month ago
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@SirShakeJunt Matt. 13:11Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.Matthew 13:14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
Mark 4:12 so that, "'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'"
CBALLEN 1 month ago
"I still believe what I believe!"
superfisto 1 month ago
God has created everything that exists in out universe .He makes all things with purpose & with much complexity ,information is needed before anything is created and .All information comes from intelligence, all intelligence is traced back to Life.Since nothing in the universe could create information,matter or energy,the source of all creation came from a Creator that exists outside of His creation and is greater than His creation.God is eternal Spirit,life,and intelligence.
CBALLEN 2 months ago
@CBALLEN Wow, you've made a lot of claims there..got anything to back it up? Like proof that anyone can confirm and verify, that doesn't rely on "feelings," reading a book, or something that is 100% indistinguishable from delusions, hallucinations, or hearing voices?
BastEternal 1 month ago
@BastEternal The information theory is a dead give away,you don't have to use your "feelings",but your brain.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN
My brain is proof of my brain, not of any of your claims.
Please demonstrate proof of your claims. Particularly, that a god exists.
My brain or "the information theory" is irrelevant to demonstrating proof that a deity exists.
BastEternal 1 month ago
@CBALLEN
But if you are suggesting that my brain is proof of a deity, then scientists should be able to dissect the brain and discover this information. There should be plenty of peer reviewed articles discussing this monumental, earth shattering discovery that the brain proves god exists.
If you could just forward me some links with the peer reviewed articles, I would be much obliged, thanks!
BastEternal 1 month ago
@BastEternal Your brain has nothing to do with DNA being information created by God.Your brain should be used to understand that nothing can exist before the plans or information exists.Have you ever seen or do you know of anything as complex as a cell created without a plan?
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN
What is your evidence that "DNA" was created by a god? Last I checked, my DNA came from my parents, their's came from their parents, ad nauseum. As far as the FIRST DNA strain, the "original," so to speak, no one knows. There is no reason to jump to the conclusion that "god did it."
It's actually more reasonable to conclude it came by naturally, just like everything else.
BastEternal 1 month ago
@CBALLEN
"Have you ever seen or do you know of anything as complex as a cell created without a plan?"
I've never heard of ANYTHING that occurs naturally using a man-made construct such as a "plan" to do so.
You will have to demonstrate that a "plan" is required for things that occur naturally.
We know that "plans" as defined by human beings are required for things that occur by OUR hand, but it would be foolish to make the assumption that the universe or nature works like we do.
BastEternal 1 month ago
@CBALLEN
Do hurricanes use a "plan" to form? Does conception use a "plan" to form life? Does lightning use a "plan" to form? Do plants use a "plan" to grow?
No, no, no, and no. Nothing that occurs naturally has any evidence that a "plan" is needed for it to happen.
So why would you assume a cell requires a "plan?"
BastEternal 1 month ago